Welcome back to Conversations
with Zendesk, where we explore how new trends and technology
in customer experience are shaping
the way that we connect with customers. Each week
we speak to customer experience innovators and experts to hear their thoughts
and ideas on the future of six. I'm your host, Nicole Saunders. In this episode, I'm speaking with Ian
Hunt, director of customer services and procurement for Liberty London,
one of London's oldest luxury retailers. Ian and his team
look after all aspects of customer care for both Liberty's physical
and digital businesses. With teams based both
in their iconic London store and via a third party
BPO based in Cape Town, South Africa. Ian and I discussed
the technological changes that physical retailers have had
to implement over the past several years. How he's thinking about the future and what other retailers should be
thinking about in their digital evolution. Enjoy. Ian Hunt. Welcome to your conversations
with Zendesk. How are you today? Very good,
thank you, Nicole. Thanks for inviting me. So tell us a little bit
about Liberty London. What is it that your organization does? Lucy London is a department store
in the west End of London. It's been operating for we're coming up to
150th anniversary in the next few years. One shop, is that what they call
a great two star listed building? Iconic. Any of your listeners who may have seen
the film, Cruella will be familiar because it's featured in the story
and it was filmed by Walt Disney. ALSOP And this is the Butler store. We sell all things from fashion Soap
Bijoux products that very famous free copies of Rugs, stationery, Flowers. Also.
And tell us a little bit about your role. What do you do there
and what is your day to day like? So I am celebrating nine years at Liberty
this very week. My full joke's always director of customer
Services and procurement, which is 35 ish people in customer service
and one person who looks after Kim. So predominantly the obvious stuff,
the cost to customer that come in to the store customers, they contact us
via the telephone, go to email. We will celebrate the third party
call center down in Cape Town and she has to look
after online customers. And then the procurement stuff is just
as important as the notes from the house. They're all the famous carry bags,
sell ribbons, boxes all over all the lovely things
that customers like to get from this. Other than the product we. Sell and Liberty London has been around
for a long time, I understand. Yeah. Our first shot was the 1975. The building we're in now, we moved here in 1924,
so next year will be the centenary. This is what they call
a listed building each year to what you're allowed to do to it
in terms of the structure of the building is very closely monitored
by essentially by the government. So I imagine in all of that time,
the business has gone through many rounds of evolving how it operates
and what it does. But I think most particularly familiar
to our audience is the way that a lot of things
have changed for retail businesses over the last few years covered force. A lot of businesses have to shift to online, creating
digital experience and things like that. I was a little bit
about what have been some of the big going from physical
to digital evolutions for liberty. When I first joined the web,
the website was a very mobile business. You had less than maybe seven or 8%,
and with the advent of the lockdowns and COVID, they very quickly
went to 100% for a period of time because the store was closed. Settings are around 5050. We have some very, very loyal customers. We're very lucky in that respect. The brand is well enough
and a lot of tourists. So when we went into lockdown,
we still had people from all around the world are still wanted that t fix,
so we had to adapt really quickly. History has told us
we did it relatively successfully, maybe didn't feel that way
the first two or three months. As you went through some of that transformation, what were some of the most important
things that you found made a really big impact
on your customers experience? What kinds of things
really stand out to you? If you think back to that period of time. Everybody throughout the world has gone
through a period of change, really getting used to the Frasers,
the New Normal. Everyone was using that phrase
when they saw the first year. We were react to it at the same time
it was reinventing the wheel, what felt like on a weekly basis. Traditionally to use this as its one shot. So the idea of maintaining a very accurate inventory file
hasn't always been front of mind because most of our customers would walk
in, see what goods you have on display. Whereas to to operate an e-commerce
business, that's absolutely paramount. It's a persistence,
as you go five or something and you need to have five, though
not one, not 50. So being able to maintain
that was quite a challenge because we weren't set up for it. Trying to put the controls in place
for that type of thing at a time
when everybody wants to sell, sell, sell and keep the company afloat
with as they know those challenges. I imagine so we went through this phase
of growing everything on digital and like you said, reinventing the wheel
every week to try to keep up with how do you keep the business going
when there is no physical space? And now a few years later,
we're kind of coming back to this place where people are coming back
out into the world. Things are back to the old normal,
I guess you can say a little bit more. How does that balance look for you? Are you still finding, if any most people
are coming back to the physical space? Has this sort of forever
changed your digital business? I think it's forever changed the digital
business, but in a very positive way. There are very few businesses
in retail space to start as a website and then become a physical shop. And I've often theorized with colleagues and friends
that if they did, you could probably do things
slightly differently. And this is kind of a unique opportunity
because effectively in a very short period, so I'm done that. We've gone from our laboratory business
to a business with a physical presence. So many of the things that we changed that we had to change the way we did
things had remained. So you know what? The way we
we move products around, the way we work with our internal colleagues
to keep content teams zoom, for example. And it wasn't really a thing. I'm sure Zoom just didn't remember
having Zoom calls and people doing this long before Tovey But I would never dream
of having that zoom where it's a huge call
with somebody who was in the next office or in the next county or the next state,
which we now do. As a matter
of course, they're all working from home. Seeing was never particularly prevalent
here in London or retailers. But it is a thing now. And, you know, and it's really made
a difference to my colleagues. And if it makes it into colleague, you make sure that it's
our customers as well. What kind of a difference have you seen
that it's made for your colleagues. To pay their staff attention? Seems to be a good thing
because we no longer I mean, our offices in
is next to the shops in one hub, London. So, you know, it's
we're very lucky in London. The public transport is very good. However, it's not particularly cheap. So, you know, so somebody chooses
not to travel and everyday that can make a significant difference
to that to their life. And what about balance? Is this for improved salary for certain
roles, the requirement to be in the office every day is no longer there in many ways
requirement to be in London every day. And I don't get that
because support people in the right way. I would never have dreamt of in a call
center in South Africa prior to this. Right. Quite, quite
literally is the other side of the world. But the speech and language
that pretty much in the same time zone as us
and it works really, really well. So it's crazy how things have changed
so unexpectedly over the last few years. How do you think that customer
expectations have changed? What are your customers at large
telling you that's different than it was
maybe five, six, ten years ago? In many ways, it hasn't changed for liberty
because the customers that we experience when the web was very small,
their expectation was they were buying from a brand. So they would expect the same level
of luxury personalized service that you get
if you're if you come to our store. So then when we moved to selling online,
the expectation was there and initially we weren't able to deliver that
because it was so very small and we didn't have the infrastructure
to do that. When sales went crazy,
we had to it because we had no choice. And the lessons that we learned
the older ones are going to stick around for years to come so that we deliver
the same luxury service that you get. So when you come into liberty,
it's very only spent. It's very quirky. We're quite different. The staff are all the same
and we absolutely pride ourselves in that. Try to extend that into a digital world
is a little bit more difficult because you don't have the interaction
and you can't tell from a face to face conversation with
I might match on somebody smiling back at me, Oh, am I talking to somebody
who's not interested in what go say? Yeah, you don't know that we're leaving
the store as staff are very good at picking up on that. They'll comment on the weather,
how people are looking, what they're wearing,
what they do with the rest of the day. They do those things.
They do it quite naturally. He's not not forced in any way. They just seem to attract
those types of people. So while those social cues
and you're engaging that which. Is absolutely impossible to do. That. So how have you gone about thinking about
creating those personalized experiences? What are some of the things you've been
able to implement to do that online? Well, my team, my customer service team,
the way we recruited and this is probably more luck
than than strategy, but I'll take the analogy,
which is where we're based. Ryan Hall London. The sorts of people who were looking for
work as the world start to start with, people that work in the cities
and some of the, the, the pubs and clubs. So we have a group of individuals who dance and sing and perform because that's
what they were trained to do. And every sure of it. And then what we've done
is we've empowered them with the, you know, how to help the customer
who delivery's missing, how to help a customer who's watching boutique hotel,
but customer wants to follow and the the other piece
quite naturally to them was taught in previous companies
because without the other way round, you employ people who are customer
service professionals. Remind them remit to smile Ltd, to use
the customers in the ring and all that. And with liberty
is completely the other way around. It sounds like a fun company culture. It's what we like it that way. I'm really pleased
when I hear people say that yeah, they have fun when they come to work. We have serious stuff to do as well,
but if we can make it fun and we try to do not all that much. O'Boyle People go home with the Swan
with ice as well as come in this moment, right? So think I'm doing okay. What are some of the technology is that you implemented in order
to start serving your customers online? You know, obviously there's putting, as you said, like
images online, enabling people to order. Are there other things that you've done
maybe from a customer service perspective? So a couple of big things that we have
an online appointment software that we we implemented during lockdown,
which helped with virtual appointments. So when the store was closed,
we still had people working in the store as we were picking web orders. But you could make a virtual appointment
for starting sessions or make questions. The sorts of things
that people will travel to us to do. And we maintain that to a certain extent. We've added WhatsApp to our contact times,
which has been hugely popular somewhere in the region of 25% of their contacts,
and that comes through WhatsApp. So our customers using that,
so like troubleshoot issues or asking sort of questions about purchases
they're making or just the whole gamut. Although initially it was
when we first had it, it was a busy time for us where, where our service level back to customers
was not where I'd like it to be. So people would use WhatsApp
and it might be a few hours. We'll get back to them. But I would say
actually we're in a really good place now. Go with that. We've got the staffing right and the contact that was right
and things are stuck. So just move out. So so we're answering queries
at the moment, you know, within the hour, which means we can start helping
with customers who are having trouble. Check out now
one of the little bit of help making that final decision is,
is this the right product for me? When we can add that personal touch,
we can answer questions that possibly aren't there on the Web page or all, but only in a written
in the way that that customer stands. I love the way that you speak about personalization,
because I think a lot of the time when we talk about this in our industry,
we're talking about how can you maybe use a bot to serve the information
about a specific product that a specific customer uses, And you're really speaking about it
in terms of how can I engage the user or the customer really in making sure
that we've got the right product for them and having a very human interaction
with all of that. As you see more of these AI
and automated technologies coming online, how do you think about maintaining
that balance of that very personal human touch with some of these technologies
that can potentially increase efficiencies and other things like that? There is there's efficiencies
about the ability to to get if somebody wants to speak to one on my team,
then they should speak to one machine and that's it. There are many customers who don't, whereas in days gone by
they'd had to because they had a channel. We had emails and so I think
what the technology is going to do, and this was really exciting, is
it helps us understand very quickly, does this customer
want to teach a human or not? And if they do great,
I've got a great team and you want to talk to you as well. I've been very good at it,
but if you just want an answer, where's my order
All you open this weekend? Do you take American Express
and all that kind of functional stuff? I don't want those customers
have to wait in line behind somebody who wants to chat about a fabric
that their grandmother bought from us in the market. So That's. Right. Those things are valid. But why should somebody stand in
line behind somebody else? So that was such a exciting for me. You know, it's something that has come up
in several of the conversations I've had recently is really
about the impact that I will have, not just for the customers
but for the people that are helping them. And, you know, just along the lines of
what you were just saying, it's all about how can we empower a customer service
representative with more information about the user or moving a little bit
more quickly or getting some suggested responses that you can still have
that human conversation, but in a more effective, more informed,
more efficient way. Nothing makes me smile more. And when I see a CC comment
from a customer that says, Oh, what I love about you, Liberty is you take the time to read my emails
and somebody gave me a personal response. And then when you look at the response,
you can see that that was a macro edit. It was two clicks. So if they're, if they're more of a warm
regards on a person, but is that your sincerity on the person,
then they're encouraged to do that. You know, we don't insist that
everybody says, yeah. Mr.. They can say all the goodness that Houston
and we trust them to make that judgment call based on interaction with customers
because they don't always get it right, But you don't always get it right when you
talk to them on face to face, although. It sounds like a lot of this has been really positive for you,
what were some of the biggest challenges as you moved to more digital service
for your customers? Replicating what goes on in
store is not easy. We mentioned, right? It's not that the we're coming
close to 150 years old and sometimes it feels like
some of that processes and some of about systems
are equally unwritten 50 years out. So you know that connects in all the dots
and phones can be quite difficult from a technology point of view. The customer service team might be a gem. Rather,
I would say this clearly I'm biased, but they are the glue that holds
you together. So they're the ones that will, you know, understand
what a customer is asking if they're so good around the houses
and knowing where to go and get that information and translate it
into an answer that helps a customer. So that that is
the biggest challenge is to each other and know that parts of that company
from technology for when you talk to each other,
what the way you'd walk through it and I'm sure
we're not alone in that respect, sir, as the company stock slowing and that was. One of the things that we've been hearing
a lot, particularly in the retail space, is how much customers are looking for
really seamless experience. They may be. You want to go start looking for products
online, have an interaction, a chat bot, but then maybe go to the store to complete
the transaction or something like that. How are you thinking about bridging
that digital and physical world and trying to make that as seamless
an experience as possible? Yep. Surprise. Actually, for a company that only has one shop on one website,
how difficult that's been in the past. Fairly recently we've had a change
of management structure, so those two areas fall under the same director
now always helps. She's got the customer absolutely. What she does, which is the team
working together, to be honest. Yeah, there isn't necessarily a
you can have the best technology in the world
if you don't talk to each other. It's not going to work. So, you know, we've got really strong customers
that I've seen based in the store that integrate themselves
with the store team. So we talk about
what's worked for customers rather than what's right for a web
customer, an in-store customer. So sure. And that's increased tenfold. What do you think has made
the biggest difference? What made that an improvement? The people actually when we
when we first went into that search, three weeks
is what it was advertised as was. And then that's where you and I'll say
maybe seven months. Many of my colleagues
who work in the shop, the shops closed. They didn't have the friction
in many jobs, so we had to find something else to do. So they came and helped. When they came and helped with customer
service there, it was said that, if I might, customer service manager used to work in shop
and look for an end to that. She might say it'll never get her. But that experience helped
because people got to see how the other how things operate on the other side
and realized that they weren't the enemy. They were just doing things
slightly different. They knew that, you know, the same
same set of customers and that's that. For me, that's the best thing that could have happened because you can
you can force those things showing you. So what do you do? You come in, do you come in with us
the two weeks and you learn the ropes and we'll come and work with you
and of workplaces where we've done that. And those things are great,
those programs. This was very much
what you do in this now, and you're doing this
for the foreseeable future. And in many cases, people have gone back. They've gone back
and they're so much better at what they did before
because they understand now. So that's one of their
that's a huge cost for me. Yeah, Sounds like I had to build
some new skill sets. But ultimately the things that make us stronger
and better at service, trust or help. So yeah, like so, you know, unless everybody's going to be going out,
no one has said they didn't enjoy it. So we've been seeing retailers
experimenting a lot in new territory. Things like fashion shows in Roblox
or digital Native brands, bringing their stuff
to physical with pop up shops. What does all of this kind of innovation
and experimentation mean for you, and how are you thinking about things
that you might be pursuing in the future? I'm not sure we're ready to the
roadblocks to shops engage with a judge or somebody recently that liberty is
that we're dragging ourselves into the 20th century.
And they corrected me. I thought I meant 21st
Century must administer one step. So I'm not sure, to be honest. I mean, rethink what we like to think. We're pretty huge on Instagram. We've lost a million followers recently,
which is quite a nice, nice milestone. Congratulations. You know, so. So we have a huge following there. So some of the things you did in lockdown,
which we engaged with, we have a very big fabrics business,
are very famous for our Liberty fabrics. So so we created the Liberty
Crafting Club. So there's a
there's a whole army of people out there that are making things and quilting
and and, you know, face masks and scrubs for the health
care workers during lockdown. So we engaged with it very much
for the community spirit in that way. What recommendations
would you have for other retailers that are finding that
they need to move more into the digital space or they're trying
to figure out how to handle an increasing volume
of of customer service requests? What would you tell them?
How should they think about it? How should they approach
solving that problem? One of the things that I learned
quite early in my customer service journey
related to some company coming from a coming into what is be a luxury retailer
that sells luxury products, need a kick in. So you need to deliver luxury. So assess what customers expect. And then through the through the customer
satisfaction survey that we get that we send out on the back of those
investigates, we realized quite quickly that customers are really only interested
in three things. Which is it a you we fast
where you friendly and where you factual. I've engineered it so they are working with us using chatbot
but you know the complex we get that we we answered me also pretty quickly
we did it with a smile on their face and we answered the question
that is being asked if Ebola then none of those three things
are what you would call luxury. You would expect to get those three things
that any service interaction, whether it's a top end or,
you know, tools about. However, what's different with us is
if we get any of those three things wrong, we get the phrase which I hate,
which is I expected more of you because your liberty. So rather than obsessed
and I guess this is my wife so she was she was who obsessed with what you think
people's perception of your brand is. You get the basics right? So you answer that question. What if they ask more one question
also all of them. Look, this the one that's easy. Do it in a friendly way
and then do it quickly. And then the other bit
almost doesn't matter because their recollection will go with these goes
to what they said that we need to help. They gave it and it wasn't difficult. So take taking away the barriers
from the team to make it easy that customers realize that being listened to,
which sounds really easy for me to say. And he's taken probably five years ago. So since you said, What's reasonable,
we got it. But it's a good reminder
that you don't have to start with the most elaborate,
complicated thing. What you really need to start with
is getting the basics right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's not it's not a
it's not a coincidence of the foundations. The first thing you build
to the house. Right. Thank you so much for the conversation
today. This has been really lovely
speaking with you and learning about this. And I'm sure
lots of folks out in the retail industry will be very interested
to hear what you have to say. Thank you very much. Have a great day. So many industries have undergone
a lot of change in the past few years, but retail in particular seems like
it's had to really shift dramatically in terms of taking the physical retail
experience into a digital space. It sounds like Liberty
London has done that very successfully and it was fascinating hearing from Ian how they've gone
about that transformation. On our next episode of Conversations
with Zendesk, we'll hear from Michael Pace, VP of global member Services
at Virgin Pulse. You'll want to tune in for this one. He has some great insights on
how they've leveled up their self-service customer support
and achieved some huge cost savings while improving the customer satisfaction. He's also going to talk
about the employee experience at Virgin Pulse,
what makes its culture so great, and why? Focusing on the employee experience
is the key to a great customer experience. So be sure to tune in, please like and subscribe and share a podcast
with a colleague or a friend. You can always find us in the Zendesk
community. Visit us at user groups dot Zendesk dot
com for opportunities to connect with other Zendesk users in the customer
support and experience space. Until next time, I'm Nicole Saunders
for Zendesk, the intelligent heart of customer experience.
