- Well, you've probably heard me talk about my
uniform and how highly simplified my wardrobe has really made life easier, but has also given me a lot
of confidence in myself. But I know it's not exactly for everyone. So today we're gonna visit with Courtney
from Be More With Less and Project 333 to talk about how you can put some
guidelines and parameters to very safely simplify your
wardrobe and to test it out, to see if you could get by
with 33 items for three months. But this was one of my favorite things
that Courtney had to say about having a highly simplified wardrobe. - But chances are even if your closet
is stuffed full of clothes right now, you're doing the challenge already. You're probably wearing a very
small selection of clothes. But what's so weird or
interesting, I guess, is that all of that other stuff, you have an emotional reaction
to that stuff every single day. Even if you don't really clock
that as what's happening, it can impact your mood. I used to be kind of bummed out that
I had spent so much money on certain things, that I still
had things with tags on, even though I was so excited to
purchase it. Clothes that don't fit. Like all of that really can weigh
on you, and so when it's gone, there is really this sense of
clarity that you don't have prior. - So glad to have Courtney Carver with
us from Be More With Less. And Courtney, I think you're maybe most
well known for Project 333, where you help us highly
simplify our wardrobe. So can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and Project 333? - Well, I started Project 333 in 2010. So forever ago, it feels like now. And I started it shortly after I
started my blog Be More With Less to talk about what to do with my closet, because it was so out of control. And I always had this kind of slow
and gentle approach to simplicity. I didn't want to do anything too fast. I didn't want anything to be too
stressful. But when it came to my closet, I just couldn't make progress
because I thought that shopping for new clothes was relieving stress. And so I was all into relieving
stress and my closet just kept growing and there just didn't
seem to be a real gentle approach, and I decided to create a
challenge for myself so I could sample simplicity in the closet
without fully committing. - And I think many of us can relate to
that idea of having tons of clothing and nothing to wear. And I think
that's the biggest frustration, is feeling like I have all
of this clothing inventory. Why is it still so
stressful to get dressed? And so what did you find the first
time you experimented with this? What did you find? - Well, what was so interesting is that I decided
to look at all my clothes at once. Which normally I would have most
of my clothes in the closet, but I had a lot of clothes in
boxes and other areas of the home. And so I got everything together and
I put it all on my bed just so I could really feel that shock of, oh my gosh, look what you spent your money on. And look at what you never
wear, or aren't interested in, or didn't even remember that you had. I wanted to be a little
offended by my prior shopping habits. And then from there I used the
challenge to narrow down my items to 33 for three months, and
then I just hid everything else. So I wasn't making really complicated
decisions about what should I donate? What should I sell?
What should I give away? I just didn't want to think about it
until I knew what this was all about. And so for three months, all I had were 33 items and that
included clothing, jewelry, accessories, and shoes. So clothing items were
probably about 20 to 23 in my closet and including outerwear. And the first day I thought, oh, this is not gonna be enough. People are gonna notice because I
was working full-time at that time. I just had a lot of nervousness around it. But I also had this sense of, wow,
this is gonna be kind of nice. Like I'm not gonna have to
make all these decisions. These are the only clothes
I have to choose from. They're all clothes I enjoy for the
most part. Even in the beginning, it wasn't like, oh, I
love every single piece. And then I expected to go for three
months and then get on with it. But today many, many, many years later I still dress with
33 items, or less, every three months. - Yeah. That's awesome. So let's go through some of the
questions that then come up with this. So you said it includes
shoes, clothing, accessories. So like it's winter here in Minnesota.
Does that include my winter coat? And my winter boots? - So yes.
And it's winter where I am too, so winter coat, scarf,
hat, gloves I include. I wouldn't include it if it was
something that was just for like skiing or hiking. If it was totally just workout
related, then I wouldn't count it. - Okay. And you don't include workout
clothes or undergarments or pajamas, correct? - Correct. However, workout
clothes have to be working out. So we're in this age right now
where there's a fine line between workout clothes and real life
clothes. And leisurewear, it's all very confusing. And more than ever I just want to
be comfortable every single day. And so if I'm including a pair of leggings
or sweatpants that I'm gonna work out in and live in, I'm gonna count
it. But if it's only for workout, then I won't count it. - Okay. And what if I am someone
who's into fashion? Did people at your job really not notice
that you were wearing the same pieces over and over again for three months? - Okay. So people at my work really did not
notice for at least for those three months, I don't even
think for the first year. And what was so interesting about
that is I worked in publishing. So I worked for magazines. And there was a time where
the Associated Press did a story about Project 333, and they actually sent it to our
company and they didn't even put the dots together. So that was great. And what was so freeing about
that is I always thought people were noticing more
about me than they were. And so to realize that people
don't really care what I'm wearing, maybe they don't care about a
lot of things that I'm doing. So perhaps I don't have to factor that
into the equation of me making lifestyle changes. - Yeah. And so do you feel like then, either for yourself or if you've seen
other women put these wardrobes together, can you have pieces that have personality
in it or do we have to keep it kind of vanilla so everything mixes and matches? - So that kind of goes with that last
question about what if you're into fashion? So I have seen this challenge
done in thousands of different ways. And some people enjoy a
really neutral wardrobe. Some people enjoy lots
of colors and prints. Some people have used it as an opportunity
to be really creative about what they're mixing and matching.
And then other people, like me, just want everything
to go with everything, so I don't have to think about
it. And it works in all cases. It doesn't take away that fashion sense, if that's something that's interesting
to you. But it can give you pause to say, how am I approaching this
love of mine in fashion? Is it by constantly adding to my closet
and then never using most of the stuff? Or am I really learning how to
repurpose things and enjoy it and add color in a way that works for me? - Yeah. And so is this considered, if you go through the exercise and
you create your wardrobe of 33 pieces, is this considered a capsule wardrobe
or is that something different? - Yeah, I think it falls under
that umbrella for sure, because it's a small
selection of clothing that you've decided to work with
for a certain period of time. And you may change that out
seasonally or some of it. But yeah, it is a capsule wardrobe. - And so has there ever been a time now, over the last 12 years since
you've been doing this, that you felt like you didn't have enough
variety or you weren't appropriately dressed for an occasion that you had? - No. The only thing that happened, that I thought was kind of a fun thing, but I didn't think that in that moment
is I was in New York with my daughter and we were waiting for a train and we had
just gotten coffees and I was holding on to my coffee and I was wearing a
lightly blue and white striped shirt. And I took a big sip of my
coffee and the lid wasn't on. And so there was more coffee
down my shirt than in my mouth, which is sad on so many
levels. But I had to decide, am I gonna wear a stained shirt
all day in the name of simplicity? Or am I gonna go and
get a different shirt? And I went and got a different shirt. So I always say that this is
not a project in suffering. That's not what it's about. It's about learning about what you
really want and need in your closet. And for some people that's
gonna be 39 items or 52 items or 22 items. So there's not
a lot of magic to 33, but it's a great place to start. Yeah. I think that's good, because I think a lot of us are just
looking for some kind of guideline when it comes to our clothing.
And so, like you said, I think it's such a great starting
point. And so let's say, okay, I'm listening to you today. I'm like,
I want to try this out. How do I start? Do I make my bed and start
laying out these pieces on there? Like how practically
would I start this today? - So the way that I start
is by just making a list of the clothes I think I would want
to include for the three months. So depending on what time of year it
was, what events I knew I had coming up, I would make a list. And the list is probably gonna
end up being longer than 33 items. And I wouldn't do it in
front of your closet. So I would do it separately so that
you're not like, oh yeah, that. And that. And that. Instead, remove yourself
from that situation and just jot down, what pants am I normally wearing?
What skirts? What dresses? What shirts? What coats? And then
you can narrow it down from there. But chances are, even if your closet
is stuffed full of clothes right now, you're doing the challenge already. You're probably wearing a very
small selection of clothes. - I couldn't believe, once I
really simplified my wardrobe, and my whole thing was I am only gonna
have things in my closet that are an option for today. That fit right
now and that I feel good in. And it was a very small amount of
clothing when that was my criteria for simplifying. But I couldn't believe how,
once I cleared that extra stuff out, how much better I felt about myself. I did not realize how much that
stuff was mocking me and being like, you used to be able to fit into
this. Now you don't. Like you said, you spent money on it. I couldn't believe that
and how I feel so much more positively about myself and my clothing, now that that stuff is
gone and everything fits, it is such a gift that
we give to ourselves. And it's totally irrelevant
what size you are right now. It's saying that right now, I'm gonna have 33 pieces
that I feel good in. - Yeah. I think there's this inner
monologue for some of us that goes something like, I have
to fit into all of my clothes. Like it's my job to fit into my clothes.
And so if something's a little tight, that's a reflection on me in a bad way. And I reject that completely. I think it's our clothes' job to fit us. So if there's something that doesn't fit, exchange it or replace it for
something that does, instead of, I'm just gonna hold on to this for
another couple of years until I fit into this. While we're telling ourselves
that, we're trying to fit in, we're spending so much energy
trying to fit into our clothes, what aren't we doing in the meantime? And what could we be doing that's more
positive for ourselves than I must fit into these jeans or whatever.
- Yeah. I love that. So you just set us aside the extra
clothes that you didn't put into your 33 items. And so let's say we
get further down the road. We're really enjoying having
this limited wardrobe. Now what do we do with
the extras? Especially, maybe there are some high-quality pieces
that we would like to fit into again. Did you keep any of the extra
stuff or do you just let it all go? What was your approach to that? - So this is where I brought
back my slow and steady approach, and I decided at the end or
beginning of each season, I would go back to the stuff, take
out the things I wanted to rotate in. Take other stuff out that wasn't
gonna work for that season. And then assess what was there.
Now after the first three months, there were some things that were so
obvious I would never wear again or use again. A lot of chunky jewelry, like I wanted a necklace to
match every sweater I had. That didn't resonate
with me at all anymore. So those were really easy to
say I'm just gonna donate those. And I didn't end up
selling anything because it was just such a frustrating
process to even consider based on what I had heard from other people. And I know there are ways to do it
online and in person at local consignment stores, but you have to really
consider time versus money. And is this gonna be worth it for
me to spend time photographing it, sending it out or doing all the things? And for me it wasn't worth it to do that. And so I would just let go of some stuff. And then after every season there
would be an invitation to let go of even more. And I think it probably took me a
little over two years before it was all gone. And so now I have my 33
items and a small Rubbermaid container where everything lives
that's not in that current collection. - I love that, because I think
there is still so much uncertainty. Am I going back to work? Am I
gonna be working from home forever? Will I lose the extra
weight that I've gained? And so I think that's great to be
able to set it aside for a little bit, detach ourselves from it a little
bit and some of the emotions that are associated and then just to be able
to test this out. But I also love too, this idea that even if we have gained
some weight, I know many of us it's like, well, I don't want to buy a whole new wardrobe
at this size because that's like I'm committing for the rest of my
life that's the size I'm gonna be, or whatever the games we say in our
head. And so to be able to say, okay, I just need 33 pieces still. And most likely my shoes still
fit and my jewelry still fits. So it's not actually that many
pieces that I might need to fill in to have a wardrobe that fits
right now and that I feel good in. - Right. And spoiler alert, our bodies are always changing
and they will be until the end. Like that is just how bodies work. So there are gonna be times that
you don't fit back to things or that you might fit back
into things. But again, not making that a primary focus,
I think is really healthy. - What are the other common questions
or concerns that come up when you talk about this? - So some of the common objections
when people hear about Project 333, sometimes as soon as I mention shoes,
people get a little freaked out. But one thing to consider is that there
might be a whole category that you decide you're just not going to count.
So maybe shoes are a deal breaker, or jewelry is a deal breaker. That's okay. Don't throw away the whole challenge
just because of that one thing. Break the rules a little bit. People
get nervous about weather changes. And probably the biggest thing
that always comes up is laundry. Like, how does this affect
the way you do laundry? And interestingly, it doesn't. It
really doesn't change that much for me, except I probably take better
care. So I wash everything in cold. I line dry almost all of my clothes. But I also don't have any
qualms about washing lights and darks and towels and everything together. Which I know people are
just not watching anymore, they're so horrified I just
said that. But it's okay. I've survived it for many, many
years and nothing bad happened. - Yep. Us too. That's
awesome. And I think, I've talked a little bit about even
just with minimalism in general, that kind of like you mentioned, there
is a little bit of risk involved, right? There is the risk involved that if you
simplify your wardrobe down to this, there could be an occasion where you
spill your coffee on your shirt and you don't have an extra one with you. But I think we both would agree that
the benefits of this just so far outweigh the risks that, at least
for us, it's been so worthwhile. So what have been some of the testimonies
that you've heard from other women, or men, I guess, that have tried this? What are some of the testimonies
that you hear from it? - Yeah, so many. So things
that you might expect, like I've saved so much money because
I'm not shopping all the time. I have so much more energy because
I'm not worried about the next sale and trying to get in on this deal and
this deal and just chasing clothes. People talk about being ready on
time, which is something new for them. That was certainly the case for me. And probably the ones that really
are just the best for me are people who say, I used to really have a lot of anxiety
and depression and just making this one simple change, changed
that. Because really, there's so much that's out
of our control in life. But if we can really think about these
simple things and remove the stress from them, then we have more
resilience for the tougher stuff. - Yeah. Yeah. That's
awesome. Well, Courtney, if anyone wants to learn more or find out
more of the details about Project 333, what's the best way for them to do that? - They can go to BeMoreWithLess.com
or google Project 333. - Thank you so much for being
with us today. And I'm excited. I really hope that
everyone tries this out, and at least does their own version of it, cause I think there's just
so much freedom in it. - Yes, I agree. - So we'll put
Courtney's contact details down below, along with more information
about Project 333. But really, what do you have to lose? I think
it's worth a shot. I love you. I hope you have a great day
and I'll see you again soon.
