Honda Civic EVAP Leak P1457 (no visible smoke)

hey guys scanner Danner here today we're working on a 2005 I think it's a 2005 right Caleb cameraman Caleb behind the screen here 2005 Honda Civic with a one point seven liter engine we have a couple of trouble codes the main thing we're covering in this video is an evap leak I hate evap systems this is the last evap leak I will ever do but we have the tools to do it told we're gonna be using for this is the smoke Pro this is their updated version of their tool I've had this one for years I think this is the first time I've shown you guys this one so that's what we'll be doing here's a shot of the codes we have a oxygen sensor slow response s2 that would be downstream ho2 s2 circuit slow response downstream behind the cat oh to fault that's not what we're covering in this video we will be covering the P 1457 evap control system leak and it says EVAP canister area so let's get started when it comes to smoke testing an evap system what we want to look for is a green service cap that's right here where my finger is pretty dirty green but this is an indication of our purge valve this is the purge valve or it leads to the purge valve purge valve is if you follow the line it's actually right here that is my purge solenoid or purge valve that is what opens the passage and puts it into the intake slowly we reburn the stored vapors that's the purpose of the purge valve so we're gonna put our smoke machine right here on this service port now in this kit I believe it came with this one which does not have a Schrader valve depressor inside of it you notice on this one it does this is from my old smoke machine and this is the one I'm using just because I don't have to take the Schrader valve out you guys have to be aware if you're using an adapter like this you need to remove the Strader valve out of this and that is done with a removal tool which comes in the kit as well and you guys have to remember that this is a left hand thread meaning you turn it clockwise to loosen it and counterclockwise to tighten it remember that with your evap service ports it's a reverse thread it's the only ones that are like that so using the tool that depresses the Schrader we may have an issue with this we may have to take the straighter valve out I'm not sure we'll see how it goes but that's pretty much it this is where we're gonna connect our smoke machine to battery positive a negative what that does caleb is it heats the mechanism inside we need to heat this oil that's in here to create the smoke and then we have where the smokes gonna come from I'm actually going to turn it on you see the red light right here this should go through a five minute smoke cycle green light tells you you're connected to the battery red light tells you you're heating you're smoking although I'm forgetting a key piece which is an airline airline smoke should take a minute to dissipate with that switch off this does I mess with the smokeoff so we're going to put this in where I connected that Valve alright on this machine to adjust flow you see this little flow meter that's here you can control the amount of flow into the system what I want to start with is pretty much open this up all the way and we want to watch this ball for what type of leak we have now the key with evap systems is every EVAP system will have a normally open vent solenoid or vent valve and we need to close that before we do our smoke test so before I hit this button on top turn the red light on and make smoke go in the system I want to close my vent valve and see what this ball does this is this is a simulation of what a sealed system would look like if I pinch this hose off watch the ball that is a sealed system that's what we want to see on evap systems if they're sealed and no leaks what we might see is something like this I'm just letting it go a little bit and then if we see something like that then it's time to turn the smoke on find your leak so I've got a closed event valve first sometimes I'll turn the smoke on and let it start smoking the system and I'll find my vent valve that way so that is an option and this being an unfamiliar car not knowing where these components are that's the way I'm gonna do it I'm gonna put this up in the air with the smoke going in the system and where we see massive amounts of smoke is where my vent valve is I got a little more big Pete that's where I want it see I put that down on the locks Caleb safety man we we you know have a hydraulic failure death is not an option as I was raising it I shut the smoke off let's turn it on see if we can find this evap vent valve they're typically backed by the tank there's my canister that's probably my vent valve right here in fact it's really rusty and might be where our problem is look for smoke here it's gonna go into the frame right here goes into a filter so what we should have show this we're gonna have smoke pouring out of the frame here in a minute take it off at this side we see the smoke coming out that's normal to have smoke coming out of here that's the outlet side of the vent valve and there's a couple ways to do this Evette leak what I can do is I can take the electronic part of the valve which sits over here I'll get you guys a shot of that in a second and I can energize it close it off or I can actually take and block off this line or block this line off I can take a pair of needle nose vise grips pinch this line off which will force the system closed in spite of the vent valve and we can do it that way let's do the low-tech way first cuz a lot of you guys may not have a bi-directional scan tool that you can command this valve to work you need other ways to do it this is it I'm gonna pinch this off with a pair of needle nose vise grips word of caution when you're done don't leave your vise grips on the car I've done that before customer took the car and they couldn't fill their gas tank normally open vent valves they all have them allows you to fill your tank when you're filling your tank you're building pressure you have to be able to release that it goes into the system through the charcoal canister before it goes to the atmosphere and if you have this still plugged off you can't fill your tank it'll keep shutting off on you so needle nose vise grips I'm gonna shut this smoke off let's go back pinch this off okay back up front okay notice the ball is now lower than what it was before and if I pinch this line off right here you see it drops all the way that's what we want when we fix this leak we have a leak in our system in fact whenever I pinched that it allowed the leak to bleed off the presser and then you see it pegged back up and then drop alright so what I'm gonna do just to prove my point again again we're not smoke testing yet the red lights off no smoke going in the system we're using the ball as our guide we have a leak I'm gonna take my vice grips off the back watch what the ball does that ball go to the top Caleb and then I'll pinch it back off and you guys will be able to see it drop back down again should be [Music] there we go it's just taking a while to fill we didn't catch that last time see the balls starting to drop I want that to go down to where it was before it's a pretty substantial leak in this system it could also be that I didn't pinch that off well enough let's just watch it for a sec let me just make sure I got my vice grips on right yeah we're good we were down around just over point - that's pretty big leak all right so now this is enough for me to go ahead and start a smoke testing it this is something people miss I see my students do this all the time they'll want to do a smoke test right away they turn on the smoke machine they start baking the fluid in there and never paying attention to a flow meter and if that bowl sits all the way on the bottom then you have no business putting smoke in the system you're not gonna find it okay so we use that ball as a guide the type of leak we have if we have a leak and now we're ready to smoke it and let's go see what we can find I have to tell you guys like when you use big spotlights regular drop lights it's difficult to find leaks you need something that you can change the angle of the light then actually this lights perfect for this because I can even dim it I'm actually really digging this light for what we're doing so we'll see we should smell gas - and I don't it's not about where we were before we should be able to see that a real quick lesson here we have a purge valve up top this goes to my intake from there goes back to the torkoal canister canister is gonna go to the fuel tank and then my vent valve is here okay this is my purge this is my vent now I'm probably missing some components in here but this is just basic this is normally open this is normally closed okay we are actually pinching off there's a filter here then it goes to the frame we're pinching off the vent here so we're not worried about our vent valve as being the problem even though we're not closing this electrically the fact that I still have a leak tells me my vent valves not my issue it's not a foolproof test for the vent valve solenoid to make sure that it's working that's not what we're doing we have a leak I've blocked it it's not the vent this is normally closed so we're filling the system with smoke we're filling the tank with smoke we're also putting that smoke back up this way this purge valve is actually a source of a leak and it might be flowing into the intake and we're not going to see that smoke so that's a concern too for where we are and again I want to make clear that with us pinching the vent valve off that the outlet of it we're not really testing the vent valve let's just be clear about that but our leak is here somewhere if I can't find smoke down in here then I'm going up to my purge valve and taking a look up that way Oh I don't smell any fuel at all [Music] all right let's uh let's check that purge valve okay a reminder to you guys and we may have screwed up when we were back there that the smoke machines shut off but what's telling me otherwise is I don't smell fuel at all so turning this back on remember this goes through a smoke cycle and will turn itself off this is actually a smaller leak than I thought you know 20 thousands of an inch it's pretty small so we're clear smoke is coming in here it's going into here half of it's going into the back of the car and then the other side comes over to the purge valve which is here it's normally closed and then comes out here to the intake this is the line I want to pull off to see if I have smoke on this side of the valve now the only problem with taking doing this kind of thing is vibrations can make a solenoid start working like it's supposed to come on stupid clamp hope I don't break it that's the other dangers of doing what I'm doing is snapping off a plastic piece we don't want any smoke coming out at the end of this right here and as you can see there is none okay so that purge valve is not leaking back flowing into the intake so we missed it we got to go in the back again can't find this leak Pete no you know I never even I've never even looked at the gas cap yet which was dumb probably should have checked the gas cap before I worried about the purge valve but good test anyway if I see something off I just can't believe I don't smell fuel at all make sure my smoke still on that's less than five minutes it's got to be the angle of your light is super important for these small leaks I smell no fuel there either where's this leak Haiti VAT leaks this would be the point where my students at school would come up to me and say can't find it and I would say keep looking that's point two it's going to be small it's going to be just a trickle of smoke that you're gonna see and I got a hit get my light right in the right spot I don't smell fuel her stupid evaporates changing lights this is a light that actually comes with a kit it's more of a spotlight sometimes when you have a light that lights up a whole area it can make the smoke difficult to see similar to what I showed you guys on the camera where we had to get the right camera angle so I'm going to try this light let's see if this helps seriously all right as I am getting frustrated I'm talking to my son we're gonna shut the camera off while I find this leak but what I want to show you guys before I forget is another way to check this vent valve and take the vice grips off we should see smoke coming out of this again don't that's going to be a problem should be a pretty decent amount of smoke coming out of here where is my smoke yeah this is the wrong light for fine and Eve at leaks angle the light or even less you can see though that the the lighting is everything when you do an IVA like testing and this is not the right light for this I saw it I had it for a second but the light was shining directly on the camera to get it you know I need this so I don't have to hold it I mean we're looking right at it and can't see it there should be a lot more smoke coming out of that that's why we take the Schrader valve out seriously this is why what we're dealing with right here is why you take the Schrader valve out it's limiting what I'm doing I'm not getting a lot of smoke here even with this open that's why I told Pete no more smoke no no more evap leaks freaking hate this irritating frustrating I mean I get the light shining right out and I can't even see it with my own naked eye I'm gonna go out and take the Schrader valve out and then we'll do this again that's what we should that's what we should be seeing nothing wrong with my smoke machine damn car this could be why on the newer designs they took the Schrader valve depressor out they want you to take the Schrader valves out remember reverse-thread [Music] incidentally these are not magnetic now we're gonna put the one without the depressor in it we should be able to get a more volume of smoke is what my hope is I initially thought it was a larger leak that is not Riis moking again I want to see a lot more smoke coming out of here that is our our goal it's a lot better is significantly better so take the Schrader valve out okay lesson learned there right what I want to show what I wanted to show before we got distracted by the lack of flow here is I want to show the bi-directional control just checking the vent valve itself I'm going a single solenoid test the canister vent solenoid I'm going to turn it on it should click and it should block that okay so that's that's the way that it should be done and the reason you want to do it that way is you want to make sure there's no smoke with the vent valve closed now that's just residual smoke there we're gonna have the same leak electronically that we did in fact the rest of this tests we can do it this way we'll leave it closed electrically instead of pinching it off with vice grips it could be wrong but that tube is still filled with smoke I believe that little residual that's coming out of there is just what's in the area we can prove it by looking at our flow meter up front here in a minute so I'll leave it electronically energized that's how it's done the right way and the reason I say the right way because what could happen is if you have a a solenoid which by the way is over here that is normally open and if you think about it basically we're pinching off this line we're just doing it further down if this solenoid that is normally open is electronically bad it will stay open all the time and when you pinch this off then you'll have a sealed system and you'll think you have no leaks and so that's the downside of using vise grips is if you don't have a leak when you vise grip this off if you don't have a leak you then have to electrically check that valve and that's what I just showed you guys here now in our case when we had this pinched off we still had a leak so we weren't worried about the valve just have to think through this stuff a little bit let's look at the flow meter I actually have less of a leak now with my electronically closed valve than I do with lid with my vice grips now we could have moved things to but let's see if we can find this stupid leak there it is or was that just me that was me freaking dust that's to come out of there no there shouldn't be any coming out of there but that's residual from from me okay that's just residual because I had there shouldn't be any smoke this magnetic here hold that for a second no I filled this tube with smoke from before and I think any smoke you're seeing here is from that we don't want any smoke I don't care about smoke here we don't want any smoke coming out of that and there isn't so there's this link so we're bouncing between ten and twenty thousand seven-inch I know from experience when you get down around ten there it is literally a tiny trickle of smoke that we're looking for and that's why we're having a really hard time pinpointing it this is a pretty small leak it's coming out of here here I'm gonna blow the rest of this out is that the way it went like that yeah we're just gonna get rid of the smoke that's in this tube that's from us okay so did a whole bunch come out nothing that tube yeah you're good now there nothing else is gonna come out of that it's not connected to anything I might have to take this cover off and look at the filler neck it's gonna be in fact even talking Pete your breath from your mouth will move this mug that's awesome all this leaks gonna be CI SIA I can see a beat from your light hair look at your light like look at the is that just the dust in the shop like if you look like right in here see the beam of the light that's kind of what we're looking for that's why these stick lights it's like too bright normally you can smell fuel vapors yeah my fear is that this is on top of the tank all right I'm gonna drop this back down and relocate my smoke we've seen Pete to the filler neck okay so I'm getting my kicked by an evap leak we're gonna relocate this again this shouldn't matter we had a large amount of smoke down there I'm gonna go in the filters I know I'm gonna go in the filler neck this time I'll show you right where the gas cap is we're gonna relocate the smoke machine down there and see if we can find it I just got to put this straight valve back first time I've used this so what we're gonna do is we have a yeah this will go over our filler neck let's see the other thing this is going to help us identify is whether or not we have a totally sealed system that's pretty cool digging that you know the cool thing is this is the last evap leak I will ever do alright we are now smoking through there it'll take a a little bit to fill back up again we'll watch the flow meter here in a minute my vent valve is still closed that's my phone filler now that's not making a good seal that's not a little bit that's a lot that's just not sealing Wow let's get another let's get another piece on there if this doesn't work I'm using a different adapter I don't want to have to double this up but it's almost kind of forcing my hand here after seeing this I think I like my other adapter better nope yeah I don't want to blame this just yet but I don't think I like it this is the one that I've used for a long time I'm not sure exactly even who makes it just it just goes over top of it it's just like not suction it has a lip that goes over it yeah that's the one I've been used and I've never used the this design huh not really Universal filler neck connector yeah it just it looks like you can actually see the line where it wasn't sealing you know maybe it may be an irregularity in the neck I don't know I mean it wasn't leaking with the cap so no it was when I put it on just the oh yeah because this is oil-based smoke so it got oily but you can see you see how well this one's sealed yeah blue point looks like is who makes this it says blue point on it so that's a division of snap-on but I've seen I think OTC makes them too but we are sealed now and of course we still have our twenty thousand sleek let's see if we can locate this better with the smoke going into the filler neck I don't know that we will but we'll try all right I think I'm gonna take this off check the filler neck closer you just look again real quick my vent valve is still closed I really have suspected this rusty vent valve the whole time but I see nothing I can smell it now could just be my hands smell like smoke I smell it up here it's fuel lines go see that line comes up here this is the vapor line here right this this one the fatter one that's your vapor line and that comes across you can smell this nice I know I know it's got a weird and it's your August up here and absolutely absolutely it is an angler angler the lights gonna be everything that's just a metal tube there it's not gonna be that's a non-issue I keep forgetting this thing keep shutting awful on me - all right we need to start isolating the circuit like I'm gonna take a line off in the back and then plug it off and see if I can eliminate the whole front of the car you know all right while he's taking that cover off I'm gonna pinch off the line from the tank that runs all the way up to the front and we're gonna watch our flow meter that's it there ain't nothing wrong with that filler neck yeah it's like it's aluminum it's not even it's all my name is still there it's not coming out of there all right here's the plan I'm plugging this one off here - that should isolate that line and it's pretty much the same isn't it yeah you watch that I'm gonna go take that off yeah is that just about 20 but I've seen it do that before what it's doing now any difference with that unpinch Caleb okay I'm gonna pitch a different one how about that one yeah now it's balancing above and below between 10 and 20 no it's yeah we went to have to drop all the way down yeah the leak is gone all unpin you stay focused on the here I'll get through the GoPro at the same time for this all right I'm just pinching off this little line I'm gonna release it did it in increase and then take this guy pinch him off it's just a rubber connection here so I started I pinched this one off this is the one that it goes to the top of the tank it actually splits if you look under right here in between this gap you'll see the line go in and then come out and that goes up front so I was trying to isolate that that didn't work and then I pinched this one off and that's what got rid of our leak so our leak is this way and it goes into this valve but then from there it splits and goes that's a bypass valve wonder that goes into the frame here get a shot of this over here see this right here see that line that goes into the frame can you can you see that so your yes goes into the frame there so I'm not worried about this valve let me see if I paint so while we're watching that ball with the other camera the one I'm gonna pinch off actually goes to the frame here okay good so it's not dumping into the frame I was worried about this valve I'm not even sure what this valve exactly does but is the line going into this valve and then let's close this one off that's the one that's it yeah but it goes up that way to the tank see I've never had to close two valves I'm pretty sure that electric see this has an electric solenoid on it to electrically closing this is not gonna be my issue I've never had it like this the one we closed was this one that's the vent valve and this is some kind of bpv showed on the scan tool evap bypass solenoid see I can do let's see if I can do both see it calls it a bps bypass solenoid I don't know exactly what it does let's do multi solenoid test let's do purge control off I don't want to do all three purge control on canister vent on bps on that's not what I want I want the purge control off I want the canister vent solenoid on I want the brake pressure or bypass pressure solenoid on as well won't let me do the one I want to do this one this isn't gonna help us this is just gonna be the break or the bypass control solenoid on vent solenoid off we're gonna be dumping out of here flow meters at the top with the bypass solenoid on which is that other one over there and this one off you see that's not what we want this is where a little bit of homework would help and I don't know what the bypass solenoid does and like I said on any EVAP system I have never had to block off to different solenoids one would be a flow control valve it's not going to be involved with the leak part the sealing of the system the only one we got to do is the one I just did which is the canister vent valve and you guys will be able to see now the flow meters dropping yeah it's gonna start dropping and so that means to me that my leak is above the tank and that's why I'm not fine and it is such a small leak and it's on top of the gas I'm admitting defeat on this one all about dropping the tank down question for me on this bypass valve is is it supposed to be that's from the tank alright I'm just not sure the operation of this valve I'm pretty confident our leaks on top the tank and it's such a small leak that I'm not seeing it all right we had a little camera shut down here we've been on this eve at leak for about two hours we'll see how the edits go here we found our leak I ended up pulling the rear seat because we did a little homework to find out if the if it had an access point or not and it did so we pulled the rear seat you see the seat is up on the roof of the car to no avail the fuel pump module was good remember when I pinched off that line it sealed the leak I just didn't know my direction of flow and my leak is the vent valve let me take you underneath let you see it I was looking at the stupid thing from the get-go all right no here's the thing I couldn't see smoke it's such a small leak but I just just using a little bit of soap and water guys I'll show you again that's it right there right there right in the corner of that right where it's rusty this right where I expected it to be when we started this two hours ago I really have suspected this rusty vent valve the whole time but I see nothing I just could not see and still can't see smoke coming out of there and the crazy part about that leak let me pinch this line off again and show you I just have my direction of flow incorrect so this the same line right here that we pinched off before to isolate the leak I guess there would be residual in there and you see where the ball is at yeah the ball is all the way down so there's pressure in that so if I take this line off here yeah see it's gone no leak right so I was misled by my direction of flow with pinching my lines off watch so open this back up again there's your leak now I want it I want to see smoke we should have smoke there found it same place I started I just couldn't see smoke I ended up using soap and water and I found it I two hours later yeah two hours later I grabbed that high-tech piece of equipment you know known as a squirt bottle so I should see now if I stop talking and we watch that should have smoke coming out of there I just saw it this is a lesson on being patient when you're looking for leaks and also using the right kind of light let me give us a different one god I still don't see smoke get out of there know for sure just I just wanted to prove to my students who are watching you better have the right angle with your light when you're down around point one point two of a leak it's the first point one of a leak that I've seen that I can see nothing ridiculous I can see the draft in here with the dust better than I can see I know it's okay there's no way you'd find that yeah there's no way nope one more time with some soap and water the real high-tech piece of equipment lesson learned there man number one patience pays off I just can't believe we don't see smoke coming out that's enough to me that's enough of a leak at we should see smoke and when that bubble pops that bubble should be full of smoke so I told Pete a while ago I'm done doing evap leak testing you can see why it's really frustrating sometimes I've had issues with this in the past where you have a point one or ten thousands leak and you can't see them and I've used all different types of smoke machines that that seems to be the the same thing so it's not the smoke machines fault it's just a characteristic of the system and so yeah I'm a little frustrated we got this car freaking ripped apart trying to find this leak we did find it don't forget to you know spray some stuff down with soap and water if you can't see smoke when you have small leaks I guess that's the lesson for this one today I apologize for the length of this video should be pretty good in the Edit we'll let Caleb work his magic on this if you have any questions make sure you post them in the comment section of this video and don't forget to look in the description of this video I put all kinds of information for you guys in there other evap leak videos I've done some tools that I used if you guys are looking for those thank you very much for joining us guys we'll see you next time

Channel: ScannerDanner

Views: 333,508

Keywords: engine performance diagnostics, technician training, auto technician training, rosedale tech, auto repair, ASE L1, how-to, DIY auto repair, EVAP small leak test, P1457, Honda, Civic, how to locate an EVAP leak, purge solenoid test, vent solenoid test, soap and water, EVAP service port, leak test, smoke machine, redline smoke machine

Id: 51hsu4-MQkA

Length: 46min 10sec (2770 seconds)

Published: Wed May 16 2018