Home Automation Hangout 2021-05-16: Chatting with Iggy

good morning well hang on aaron you said you can hear me scrolling waiting time to hear the mouse clicks okay so hopefully that means the live stream is running uh i'm doing this through stream yard at the moment which i don't normally do so i wasn't even sure if youtube would automatically start the stream so first good morning to everybody oh crystal bell prenil and greg is here michael some call it fun bob bob p bob powers james aaron ceon's here dodgy's here jordan uh dana and sorry if i missed anybody gerald i'm just scrolling down the list so you can just make sure you can hear me mike good good to see you all here all right now i have a um a very special live stream today because we have a guest coming on which is why i'm using stream yard oh but before i get into that i just need to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land i pay my respects to their elders past and present and to aboriginal elders and peoples from other communities who may be taking part in this live stream today now ah let's just get straight into it because my guest today has been has done many many very interesting things and i want to find out about some of the projects that he's been doing so everybody welcome to the stream iggy hang on i'm going to do a bit of rearranging here good morning morning yes crossing the streams hey so it's really cool to have you on um on the stream and just before the stream we were just talking about last time so we would have seen each other in perth at lca in 2014 i think was the year that we worked out yeah um when we were talking about your space projects and the implications of trying to send them overseas and stuff oh right yes that's right with the export control stuff yeah uh i stickers okay hang on um seon said oh iggy clean your workbench no but that workbench is loaded up with awesome stuff i wanted to please some questions about it and for seon's benefit if he looks in the background over there is a conductive filament print of his little assembly platform oh nice so you specifically used conductive filament for that one yeah because uh i'm an esd troll so i had to take my own medicine yeah um out of curiosity what is the esd filament like to print with i see we're chasing squirrels already yeah um it's the layer adhesion um is very variable so if i push this too hard it will actually split um ah yeah and that's even the uh expensive stuff which i think um i can't remember the name of it the stuff that's sold by um core and a couple of other people um it still doesn't have the layer adhesion of some of the others and you can just see there are a couple of marks on this one where i think i've actually run a little bit of glue into it so for a device just sitting there like that it's going to be fine but um with fine walls you'll find that you know they'll break apart but um otherwise it should serve the purpose and i've got a laser cutter so i'll cut an acrylic top for it um but all the goodies will still be sort of doing the uh is the dissipation through the the conductive mat and the materials that should be awesome so thanks seon great design cool something i need to ask about that is i've printed one as well it's sitting on my bench back there somewhere and possibly because the bearings that i got weren't quite right or tolerances or something the top plate tends to flop around a little bit it's not it's not very rigid so do you have much movement in yours yeah it does have a little bit so i've been meaning to ask see um what his is like as well so i think that the bearings sorry the bearings that i used in that that's the large bearing isn't it it might actually be a millimeter taller than the one that sounds specified but i went down to um the local bearing place and just grab whatever they had so okay cool um oh dodgy just said can you blend filament to give it a better bond um yeah i don't know that's um unless you have very fancy equipment and the ability to make your own filament that's probably a question for the filament manufacturers we should have chosen pressure on here as well or something yeah [Laughter] um so there are a um there are a bunch of projects that you've worked on that i would like to ask about and we're probably only going to touch on a few of them so let's start with a couple of the recent ones um just recently on twitter you posted photos of a pcb that you etched and it was um so it was a breakout board that you did now i'm just going to figure out how to share this so that other people can see it um if i do let me see because i'm doing this through stream yard i can't just do my normal desktop sharing thing or maybe i can if i do this and then i hit desktop yeah i think that works oh look you got the um that's my other camera which shouldn't actually be visible so hang on i'm going to make that camera invisible get rid of that okay that's better so for anybody that's interested in um in iggy's uh projects and things check out the good not evil ged not evl account on twitter so do you know here's a squirrel for do you want to know why um i picked that uh yes but i may have spent a considerable number of years in new south wales cops and um being the man with a tech background and who could operate um microsoft paint i would be called upon to do all the evil photos of people for uh farewells and one day that detective set up and said iggy if only we could use your powers for good and not evil so yeah and so that's where the uh the nickname stuck from for that cool uh now i'm i'm still trying to figure this out because i've got screw if i do uh hang on all right if i do this i can't actually see stream yard right now is that showing is that showing the picture so that you can see it yep yep okay great uh yeah so this is a breakout board that you just did uh just recently and it's it's one that you etched at home so you've done inkjet printing onto transparency film and then etched it that looks a lot like um like a room 32 or something what is the module that's sitting in the middle here so the module is um microchips is it wrl or wlr 089 u0 which is the cmr 34 so there's it's basically sam l21 but it's also got the laura radio on board okay and a friend and i are doing some fiddling and of course because they come in a module with uh one millimeter pin spacing i thought it could be handy just to have something so we could plug in usb have a 3.3 volt regulator on there and break the leads out a little more easily yeah so i um i actually got lazy and whipped it up in um easy eda because excuse me i'd already drawn the footprint in there in case i wanted to go and do the jlc pcb thing um then i went and printed the uh i used um oh actually here's one of your squirrels i found a really neat um set of tools on the web that allowed me to take um gerbers combine them together and then so you could penalize um even different designs but this is obviously just the one design so that's inkjet printed onto some clear acetate that's designed for um inkjet or laser printers on the other side yep that's commonly used for um screen making for um screen printing on t-shirts um and that's only a single layer i just printed as photo quality with a single layer yeah i then i use kinston pcb material which is the uv sensitized positive pcb material you print this back to front so the ink ends up down onto the copper so you don't get like bleed around the edges of it um and then i use one of those um nail salon little uv exposure boxes um ones that are about that big you know buy them for a couple bucks on you know ebay or second hand shops um and 51 second exposure was all that needed then you develop it in their um developer solution which is i think an alkaline something or other um and you end up with um a green sort of finish still on the boards um this has obviously been etched uh then i use a um a vertical bubble tank um the sort you can buy from some of the pcb places looks like a a fish tank for anorexic a very skinny fish tank yes tip hot water into it out of the tap just a normal 70 degrees c or whatever comes out some ammonium persulfate um and just bubble etch it and it does a really really nice clean job as you can see yeah the um the kinston material i got a few years ago when i did a project for a major one um where we needed to turn something around really quickly and said what can we do so i just got him to order a stacker and he gave me all the rest of the material he had with it um because i did an aria a surface mount rf filter frame um and so i still have that sitting there i can't even remember what it's worth these days it probably works out just as expensive as doing a dhl and a four dollar order from pcb place but you can have it like in an hour um and sometimes i want that you know instant gratification so to speak yeah yeah you can't really um beat that latency that very quick turnaround time yeah it's um it's a long time since i've made any pcbs myself i've still got all the chemicals there's a one of the plastic tubs up over my bench is the pcb making kit and it's got all the stuff in it that i need but yeah since i've done any so i wasted a lot of board remembering what exposure time i used last time so i was too stupid to not write it in the books i might didn't have any notes um one thing i noticed about that hang on i'm gonna bring back this uh this image because i just noticed that um where are we here we go so this is the fully assembled board with that with that module on it because this is etched up it's only a single sided board it's my guess you didn't show the other side um how are these pin headers attached are they right all right okay yeah um i was going to drill them but that would mean going down to the garage and fighting for the dremel um so yeah i just left it as single sided the other side is actually a ground plane and i've got a couple of tie points to the the ground plane just so we have somewhere for those nice return currents to go um oh is that what this wire is down in the bottom left corner yeah it's running around this one yeah the other corner as well and yep i see it and one side um and uh yeah then the the blue jumper is just to bring 3.3 volts across to three of the the pins along the side hang on let me just let me try this with the camera shallow okay go for it so now see and i'll see even more of the mess if i do that and it's not awake yet because i closed it the joys of live broadcasting yeah ah here we go so do you need me to move over here so which way do you make me move that way um i can see it there it's um it's just off the edge now a little bit oh yeah sorry yeah yeah it's got a few other things plugged into it as well yeah um so yeah it's just a ground plane yeah and i've been testing the spy and the i2c etc because the um library that i'm using is one that somebody's written for so you have to switch back somebody had written for their own version of the wrl module but then they'd started to do an implementation um for the wrl but hadn't they all added all the rest into the the arduino libraries and i may have emailed someone about some hints on how to set up a library for a new board but you may have but they may not have been very helpful yeah that's right [Laughter] yeah so this board that you're working on um is that what's the purpose behind it is there a project you've got in mind um it's related to trackers basically um and the the full use i won't talk about because it's for a mate of mine who may use it commercially um but essentially it's to allow me to then do some um power analysis on it because i've got this i think i said in the email to you one of the ot arc um power analyzer cio2 power analyzers which has nano amps of resolution and power supply does battery profiling it's hiding over under the monitor there on the bench um but i wanted to get the platform up so that i could see what the current usage is during transmit during the sleep cycles during deep sleep um so we can profile all that properly so i can go in with his eyes open and go yeah it's going to be worthwhile trying to do a tracker project based on it because the current consumption is going to be appropriate yeah okay yeah and it's again another one of those toys where they're not cheap i think they're about 900 bucks or something but every time you go to use it you just go oh it's just so nice so yeah there are some there are some tools like that that you can go years without needing and then if you need it for a specific project that will there is nothing that will substitute you just yeah without it you can't get the information you need yeah and you can try using multimeters you can use all those things and i've previously used the um agilent n6705 which is their large um source measurement unit but you know one of those is 35 40 something thousand dollars with the the stuff in it and 99 of the time when i've used it i've used it for no more functionality than the uh the little koitec device yeah so vanilla is watching hi yeah okay um so okay now that is an rf board and you're talking about potentially being used as a for a tracker now one of the other things that i saw just recently on twitter was that you're doing some testing with some software that um i've just got to see if i can find the i've just lost my um lost the thing i was looking at oh here we go okay yeah you're doing some testing with some software that does rf analysis or simulation and rf is one of those things that has always seemed like a bit of a mystery to me so i did actually did my amateur radio just go ahead and bring this up on the screen let's see if i can share this desktop okay so this is this is a screenshot of a simulation in this software that you were that you've been using recently so can you explain hello so can you explain what this software is all about like what it's um somebody actually tweeted um that a company called um cenos who have this send us platform things let me just bring up their website so i think it was wrong [Music] so cenos dash platform.com um and the company traditionally done a simulation for induction heating so you can work out exactly how objects we're going to heat etc apparently there are all sorts of benefits to induction heating things when you're going to stick them together or weld them or whatever and they were running a um a beta test program for some antenna simulation software um which allows you to in their case use freecad to draw the structure of the antenna so do i have a pcb antenna i have a pcb antenna from not my design but the recent b-sides thing so that um terribly modified focus um that patch antenna up the top there yeah with the feed line down the bottom um is theoretically a 2.4 gig patch for the wi-fi and bluetooth on the esp32 that's on the the b sides conference page badge and then a 50 ohm strip line going down to it so to design that you can either do the calculations build a board test it find it's wrong build another board test it find it wrong or yes you can go into something like the the cenos software um and there are others like hfss which um we've also used before but i think a license for that is about 140k um plus the annual subscription so this the whole field is usually really expensive unless you go right to the other extreme and there's the nec simulation software which has been free and available for donkeys years but you don't have the benefits of all being integrated into a cad package so anyway so you could draw this up in the cad software along with the feed line going down specify the type of pcb material and the other thickness the er constants for the material and then simulate it in the software um and then work on uh measuring in the software itself through the the um simulation of it it'll give you what the impedance really is um you can then use that to calculate you know matching networks at least ideal matching networks which are going to be different as soon as you put anything on the circuit board and you can integrate through that in the software really quickly so anyway i jumped onto the um the beta test program and um apparently i was noisy enough with the feedback i was providing and with some of the things i was playing with um which included a flat patch for 296 megs grammatical radio um that they uh they liked the conversations that we had and they've given me a lifetime license um along with a couple of other data testers which is awesome so because they do have a um the hobby license i think is 20 euros a month or something um which i would have been really tempted to spend and i think the commercial one is about 600 euros a month but that's so cheap excuse me so cheap compared to other commercial things um and so um they've now advanced it to where you can take i believe fusion 360 designs so if you had a helical antenna um or one of those cloverleaf things they use for the the drone racing you can actually model that 3d structure and you can import that into the software and then you can simulate that and you go okay well you know this says that with this thickness of wire that i'm using it the radiation pattern is going to be rubbish and you can alter all that in the cad simulate it and then try it and see what it's like so that's awesome um yeah it makes it really nice um combined a bunch of um free to relatively cheap software tools so that even as a keen amateur no pun intended um you can do that sort of simulation whereas it was just completely out of the reach of most businesses as well as most um hobbies before yeah well you mentioned the hobbyist license versus the commercial license twenty dollars versus six hundred dollars per month uh are there restrictions related to that or is it mainly around using it for commercial purposes it's basically support um so if i look at their website yes i've got a community plan for individuals and hobbyists which is 20 euros a month per workstation oh sorry the professional is 99 a month it's not as crazy as i was as i thought yeah um and you get um right so the community plan it's a single core that will run on the simulation so it takes a bit longer okay um whereas it'll do multi-core um and it has uh and you get full live support um in the software whereas otherwise it's jump on the slack channel and sort of chat to the other users yep cool um ceon just asked for a website link so i am just pulling that up right now this is hypo hyphen platform.com yep what i'm going to do is drop a link in the chat which is to the um the news post about it the everything rf news post and uh that's got the screenshot and uh yeah and some links to it so i thought you might be a person that would be interested in this i'm when i saw this the first thing that came to my mind is is checking the performance of pcb antennas for things like esp32 boards and it looks like this might be a very useful thing for that and if it can pull the if it can integrate with the um the design that is in fusion 360. so if we could if if we generate the board in so i'm thinking of a workflow for um ceon and myself in particular we both use eagle or seon is now using kicad as well so from eagle you can sync into fusion 360 which gives you the physical structure and then from fusion 360 you could bring it into the cenos software and simulate the um the radiation pattern and everything for the antenna that would be a really really useful little thing to do yeah and the the thing you've got to remember is that um the patch antenna i did which i think is it's elsewhere in my um tweet um in my twitter stuff but the i came really really close to i think within um about 20 something megahertz of what the software said um and i'd measure the antenna i've got a roden schwarz dna um so i'd measured the antenna so i knew what it was like so that was why it was a really good comparison with what their software was doing to give me an idea of how close it was going to be and even they were surprised at how close so they did a bit of a blog post or something somewhere about it um yeah but the moment that you have that antenna on something or this antenna and this one unfortunately was resonant on about 2.7 gig i'm not quite sure what happened there so um i tried various things to see if i could get it to work at 2.4 gig but if the antenna was also physically disconnected from the esp32s with some 0.1 um microfarad capacitors yeah um but the moment you have an antenna like that on the board if you're then wearing it if you put it into a case whatever the characteristic is going to change everything changes yeah so yeah there's no point beating yourself to death trying to get something exactly right because it might look awesome on your bench and you'll lift it up a centimeter and it's different and the customer will put it into a die-cast box or something yeah that's all over yeah so it's like and same with matching networks if you're doing a reasonable job at least having a go at it then good because it's going to be different for every customer unless they sit there and they go through the trouble see on those this very well from having that learning curve and i feel the same pain because unless you're doing it all the time um i go off and i've got a mate who's a really good rf engineer and thankfully he's very patient so he'll explain things yet again yeah but yeah so just best effort and that's already way better than a lot of other very very big possibly american manufacturers do cool um now that thing that you've been holding up and that you've mentioned a couple of times that's the b-sides canberra conference badge and i've shown you the lca conference badge on this on my channel a few times but you did a conference page not a few years ago for b-sides i did um so b-sides in canberra started in 2016. um and it's run by um kylie and silvio who also have intersect who do infosec training and stuffing in town um and kylie knew me silvio didn't at the time when she went hey um do you want to do something on the design for a badge for the conference and we were expecting about 300 attendees which seemed like all very cool so we had a really limited budget um because it was just this little community sort of conference here so we want to try and get as much functionality in as we could and we wanted to represent canberra so we ended up doing that which has the parliament house sort of on the top of it it was obviously sponsored by some company that like circles yeah um we used an esp8266 module um and uh just the tft and it's the basic badge that allowed people to you know control it with the buttons silvia wrote some old school type um scroller demos um like you'd see on the old commodore 64s or something yeah um demos yeah but i want to be super expandable so i also added um room for a two three oh one seven the spy based you know io expander i think you use the i2c ones possibly yeah and then also uh the mcp3208 the eight channel um adc um and people had um the option of you know adding the the other goodies um at the conference we had a hardware hacking village but we assembled like as the the overall team 300 of these by hand before the conference yeah which was interesting um and of course i did a trial board first and discovered that the modules that i had were actually one row of pins wider than the boards so i had some modules or one size and some led another so all those sort of issues that you you find yes and i did that in kaike that was my first kai-ket experience because i thundered in eagle and then they went oh it's kind of an open source thing you know with conferences and i'm going sure we can redo that and but yeah so we redid that and that worked out really well and they had a badge each year the the one the following year similar themed using the esp8266 um but then this year b sides had over 000 conference attendees um and there's a local company um called penten who do some awesome stuff in some custom electronics and security electronics and other goodies people can find them on the web but they agreed to sponsor it it was initially for last year but because of cobit and what have you um the badge didn't get released until this year to have this thing made there's a three color um ink display um there's an optional accelerometer on it it's got audio it's got a sam d21 as well as an esp32 on it like it's a phenomenal thing and to hand that out for what was the conference a hundred bucks ahead to every one of the three thousand something conference attendees it's like magnificent so another side's now the largest security conference in australia yeah 3 000 people it's that's a lot um for that badge could you please just hold that up again and show the other side because on the black side is that over printed or has that all been done just in the normal pcb fab process so i can see some red and some white on there with black yeah i don't know whether i think it was all done in one hit um at least it looks like it because the there's white over the top of the red so it's as if whoever manufactured the board for them was able to do that sort of at the same time the boards themselves were manufactured by um gma the cb radio people okay is there a partner of pentane um yeah so i'm not not sure exactly of the prices yeah i wondered if maybe that had been done with some uv cured over printing on top of the on top of the regular pcb yep and the overlay on the other side is certainly white [Music] so and it's a bit of a matte finish to the uh the red that's on there so yeah yeah i'm not sure how they did that that's an interesting looking board and it comes in a really nice so that wasn't like the the amount of effort that they went to on it just allowing me to reach down here into this draw so when you get it actually looks like that oh so there's a there's a full-on plastic structure around the sides there's a front wow like it's a ridiculously good bit of overall product engineering and a lot of work has gone into it that's amazing so it's a sandwich sort of yeah structure with multiple boards um yeah seon pointed out that please keep holding that up because that looks so good um yeah so there's no reason a board house can't do multi-passes or silk in different colors they just don't offer it yeah that's true um you can and you can do get custom color silk screen and things if you're willing to pay for it the board house will do almost anything uh yeah this is really nice the plastic extrusions also um go down to the rgb leds which are around it and then on the other side the same d21 touch interface is connected to the it's got me confused with the raw background so everything's happening yeah that are underneath um where those leds are so yeah there's a ton of stuff that this thing does so yeah that is quite well it's quite an assembly project but it's also quite an engineering project designing the um designing the multiple boards to sandwich together with the bit in the middle and they had to do this with with the you know the world component sort of shortage in mind as well as um i think the the work was actually done as a volunteer project by the guys there so yeah you can't take away from it separate to anything i've found just through my curiosity with the rf end of it um you can't take anything away from it's a fantastic device um yeah that's very impressive um so there's a um there's a particular topic that um i think people would be interested in hearing about talking about besides canberra um and you can share as much or as little of this as you feel comfortable doing you did a talk at b-sides canberra this year about a bit of a um a project you undertook which i think was largely like a you decided to take it on yourself and obsess over something because it really got under your skin and you wanted to solve the problem um do you want to explain a little bit about what about what that is i don't i don't want to say anything that i shouldn't um well apparently this is quite a good video on the b-sides youtube channel yes there is yeah was last time i had three less views than mike burgess the director general security so okay i'm sure we can fix that i'm a coffee still winning i'll i'll watch it a few more times it's right so back in uh 2019 i think was um i got a phone call from some friends in a national law enforcement agency and who knew that i did this sort of stuff and played and whatever else yeah yeah that's right um and they said that they'd been and they knew that i was an ex-cop so it keeps you same sort of stead and they said hey we've got this device it's involved in a cold case homicide that's happened in south australia and we've had a look at it we've tried to recover what we can can't do anything with it we're about to tell them that you know we can't do anything um do you want to have a look for us sure challenge accepted um and the the device is an old um codec camera which you have to look at the stream i don't have the the device or the bits lying around um yeah but it's a one of the the old codecs that still has internal flash in it so you can either put an sd card into it or else it's got um 16 bits of internal flash so i started looking up data etc on the device and what happened is that they managed to do so they've done all the right things they did chip off removed the nand flash from the board put it into a reader run it through all the forensics tools nothing out of it like no images recoverable and the device as far as we understood was a key piece of evidence um in the case which linked a number of things together so the case is still in front in the the courts at the moment and i got told just the other day because i sent the link to the video to the investigator um and um it was funny because his comment was um i didn't understand a word but but awesome work so the the particular so the camera that you're talking about what is the theory that there were photos on the camera that were potentially evidence and had been deleted is that the yeah that's the general scenario yeah so it was a matter of how how do you get back the deleted images yeah that's right um and no doubt because you could have a memory card in this thing the person that was in possession of the camera didn't realize that there was internal memory in the the camera that may still reveal you know what used to be there um so they because i wanted to say completely removed from the case they went to um two cashies and found two more cameras um so they sent me one of those dropped it off actually while i was doing a sans forensics course for work um and i don't normally do forensics it was just i managed to get on a lot of courses it's one way they can compensate you when they can't pay you real money um yeah and so they dropped this thing off to me and i thought i can eat i had a little bit of a fiddle and i tried usb to see if it mounted his disk drive and other things couldn't get anything out of it so i did the same thing so i removed the the nand flash from the board um i then um built a reader using a tnt4 um and put the the nand flash onto another break smd breakout board um and use the tnt4 to read the stuff off after going through all the data sheets for the the nand flash to get the the command structure and stuff because i hadn't worked with them before um and then started going through it and just using a hex editor and looking and then using um some image recovery tools so using linux and photorec which is just an awesome photo recovery tool um and it found all these headers um to images um but couldn't recover any images so i kept looking at it and going back to the data sheets and i dragged this out every couple of months and they're finally sort of going oh look you're still sort of interested because you know we kind of need to decide um and i then had a bit of a sprint session and jumped into it and i discovered that um the nand flash stores data in um 256 by pages and so there were 256 bytes 56 bytes and then 16 byte page of data um and obviously being an older device it's about was it about 2007 device i think from memory um processors were a little bit slower you know cheap consumer type camera um and i i had no other info on this so at the same time i'd reached out to kodak um australia and gone g'day i'm nobody i'm doing this thing as a favor for some cops um have you got any info and they went oh look we don't do anything with cameras anymore but like we'll send an email to the states and the summary is that basically they sent it to the states somebody in the states was interested enough in the fact that this was for a cold case multiple homicide um that they contacted a design engineer who used to work on the project and they actually sent me the design specifications for the project which really just confirmed a lot of things you can find open source but it was like resolutions and told me i could find up to like 41 images on the answer and that's the fat file system even on the internal flash so did that kept looking at it and i finally thought well the way the flash is structured maybe they're trying to make it as fast as possible and if you there was a commander allowed you read a b a b a b from those pages of flash and c required a separate command so if they'd left that out obviously it makes the device a lot faster so i took out 16 bytes every 512 bytes and wrote that back to a file then used the recovery tools and recovered all these pictures from the test camera that i had it's like well i could hear the angels singing and whatever yeah so i documented that stuff sent it off to them and um contacted the um investigating officers down in south australia and they were over the moon because they applied that to the same device and managed to recover i'll call it a considerable amount because it's still before the courts of information which they were extremely happy to see um and which apparently is making a very large difference to the overall situation um so we'll find out next year the final outcome but um presumption of innocence all those good things yeah it looks like obviously being very careful about how you word things as you're discussing this and um the gentleman concerned is still in custody um and will be until then as well um but there's a certain degree of confidence based on um what i was able to help them with and it was awesome just loved it but yeah it was one of those things where you just it just gets under your skin and you're going well you know i've got to use all this for something and i don't usually use it to make you know pocket money for any other project yeah so i just kept hammering away at it and for what's hopefully turned out to be a good result so yeah they gave me a nice good and reward so yeah that's good and you get yeah that feeling of satisfaction of having cracked a really difficult problem yeah yeah and that's what i really like sorry i was just going to say there was a a note in the comments um someone said doesn't chain of custody come into play and having watched your b-sides canberra talk i know the answer to this which is that you did not do this work on the actual camera that was in evidence you did this on a duplicate camera to prove the technology yeah so that's why they literally went to caches and bought an identical camera sent me that camera i had no access to the real evidence no access to that camera therefore i don't need to go to court um all i did was develop a technique that could be applied to the same cameras and being an ex-copper like that stuff was right up at the the forefront of my mind yeah if you know how do you you stay distance from this and still do it and we worked out that was the the ideal way of doing it because that can be applied by anybody to any of those devices so yeah so does that mean that um south australia police had someone authorized to work on the actual camera so you develop the technique you then document that and send it to whoever they're working with and they do it themselves in a in a controlled environment yes um so then it was done by another agency um and they basically because it's a small community overall with policing in australia um there are a couple of places that have really good capability but they're all really really busy and you can't afford to spend months on a single case and you've got to get the things out the door yeah i think new south wales might have one technician one high level tech um that can do chip off for them one and one one person they weren't involved in this um but he is awesome and he is often referenced by people who are teaching these forensics courses from the states um because of his contribution back on forums and other things um so yeah it's a small community and so the stuff that they'd done um had already you know stretched the limitations of the resources you could really throw at it um and while it was a simple answer when it came down to it it's like working to that process and going you know what on earth were kodak thinking at the time um and coming up with that and then yeah yeah as i said in the thing maybe it only takes 16 bites to catch a killer yeah yeah it's it's a classic example of that situation where you spend months gnawing on a problem and you get to the end result and the end result is simple and when you present it people think okay that seems simple but to have arrived at that end result is not simple at all um i actually had a very simple conversation um a week or so ago with a mechanical engineer that i'm working with on another project and um and he said that one of this is a guy whose career has been building race cars so he built um cars for craig lounge and you know many of the he built a lot of supercars and so what he would do is he would have a particular challenge where he had to design something or build and fabricate something that would solve a problem and he would spend ages and ages on it optimizing it making it as light as possible making it as strong as possible and would present the finished thing and it might be an incredibly simple structure it's like a joint with affiliate in it and people would look at it and say is that all it is like why did that take you so long and they don't see all the iterations that went through it and all of the testing and trying a different structure to only see the result so yeah the fact that you spent months on this it's that shows the dedication that it takes to get to that end result yeah and it and it's almost embarrassing you know how easy it is at the end of it um but that's why in the talk as well i i stretched the point of you can't hold it against the the forensics guys that looked at it before me because they just they didn't have the month to spend yeah yeah i also do do you like the t-shirt my daughter did for me as a merry christmas oh yes that's by best buy so i actually um before i before she did put the things onto t-shirts um and she did a couple for myself and a few friends and i won't say why but there's some significance um i actually contacted the uh the artist um who does the spy versus spy stuff and he gave permission for it and i think he thought i was weird actually asking because nobody else ever bothers but yeah everybody just does it yeah cool so all i can say is welcome to canberra yeah yeah um yeah okay so um let's uh let's throw back to some retro computing sort of stuff back in the early days so you've um when you were first getting into computers you were you were just a kid and you did a bit of work with things like z80 based systems like the trs-80 model one and um yeah and machines around that sort of era and um and also you worked at a telecom like at a tv broadcast site so um could you talk a little bit about the um the sort the early projects that you did uh related to you know related to that either the the z database systems or the tv broadcast stuff the um so the z80 stuff um i used to be a very naughty boy in wag school um and this was i started school a year late because we came over from germany um and so i was a year older than the rest of the classmates typically and um i was in the top class for most subjects except for english where the english master and i who didn't quite see eye to eye and i used to go to wag school except i'd go and sit in the office of the department of education psychologists and they used to be around as vocational guidance things and he just bought a trs-80 model one and was trying to figure it out and uh surprisingly i had some proper gaming experience because i've learned to program at a winery that my dad used to do refrigeration work for because they bought an ibm 5100 the desktop super super expensive um little basic computers they used for um their counsellor um and so i'd go and sit in in peter's office and write software for him and i built one of the electronics australia electromyogram projects because he wanted to teach people to relax and stuff i remember that project yeah yeah yes i uh i built one of those for him that he then used on clients in there and he basically said look i think you're wasting your time at school but you should probably go into a you know that was the uh broadcast operators interviewed all the you know one of the the um technical sort of qualifications through tafe um anyway i ended up uh in telecom and uh sat in a telephone exchange for about six months before transferring to their broadcasting area and that was from when i was about 17 but you'd sit on a hill and you'd put humphrey bear to air in the morning and you'd watch nani hayes rehearsed and between uh watching you know wearing their swim gear on playskill but there's not a lot else to do really except for wipe the the pcb oils off the transmitted capacitors and then make a currency after you've wiped it on your clothes um and the local tv station um the engineer from there um was interested they also ran sorry so they ran mtn 9 the television station out in regional new south wales and they ran 2 pk radio station parks and 2 mg and they wanted to automate them so we came up with a project to create an automation system using vhs cassettes for audio recording um and they had um cues come down on the microwave link from the the host network the other predecessor to win which would tell them when to stop and start ads um so in 8086 assembler mostly and then in c for the editing software and scheduling software i created automation systems for the radio station and for the tv station so we'd switch the ads into air appropriately in the the local ads for the tv station and allow them to run those radio stations um so that was a really cool thing running on an old epson you know xt or something or other machine and that was i think one of the first automation systems that was around so i did that as a sideline um and i also wrote some stuff in microwave systems because i ran the user group out in the countryside and i wrote the function key editor which was distributed with all cpm microbees um around the world and in return they gave me my first own pc which was uh the mytek 8086 after staying at owen and linda hills and just those days of computing was just awesome because you were so even in a user group you were so involved in it and you know you could go up and visit the people and you know deal with them directly and talk to the engineers like gerard hill and all those others um so gerard did the modem and did a bunch of other machines um and garner anders who used to write the the graphics code for their basic um interpreter and i think he's still with um apple these days as a an apple senior um but yeah being involved way back then um did a couple of s100 based industrial control systems might have had for uh fermentation controls in wineries yeah so lots and lots of assembly language over the years which again is really good because you're right down in the nuts and bolts yeah well these projects that you're talking about so both the um the winery automation and the broadcast automation with all of these sorts of projects there are both hardware and software components so presumably the when in the broadcast system for example you had these vhs cassettes with the ads and things on them and you would have had to have some way of controlling the devices to tell them when to play when to stop when to rewind how did you go about linking all of those things together um we had some um basically just some digital i o boards and from memory for the it's now a long time ago um i'm now somewhere in my 50s and i was about 19 when we did these things and remember we had some uh just iso um digital i o boards for inputs and outputs and would you hit the pause button or the play button on the the cassette um there might have been more upmarket ones that oh was the uh the engineer that from the the radio station um and it might have had a remote interface anyway but that was it we used to trigger them just using um gpios as you would on a like you could do in an arduino these days um yeah trigger those then look for the q signal coming down from the satellite link which was a tone decoder um was it five six seven or something to ten decoder when it saw the tone it knew that it needed to start the next sequence of um of switching et cetera okay yeah really basic stuff which you know you yeah every mandy's dog's doing with an arduino of some sort these days yeah and did you use um similar methods in the winery um yeah so in the winery we used crememko um that was a big american manufacturer used the crememko s100 cards they had a um a z80 single board computer um which i still got one um and they had the d plus 7a which was an 80d converter board with seven channels on it um that along with um 20 milliamp current loops going off to the i think the pt-100 temperature probes and then going out and switching relays for the the solenoid valves on the the coolant that would flow through the tanks so it was very cutting edge in the um machine that we used to control it i think was it was a crememko c10 which ran cdos which was their version of cpm again the z80 basebox um yeah and i also wrote a full harvest um so grape intake system which uploaded data to their honeywell mainframes so um did lots of you know that sort of stuff and while doing other jobs that were kind of unrelated to it yeah so you're doing all of those things as you said you were 19 when you were working on that broadcast system so you were doing very deeply technical work back when you were very young and then i'm curious before you forgot it yeah so i'm i'm curious about this detour that you took into becoming a police officer how did that come about um that sounds like an unexpected twist yeah um i got a redundancy because they were automating ironically they were automating all their transmitter sites um so telecom was getting rid of their broadcast stuff so i got a redundancy from there which was quite a lot of money for a 20 something year old and i went and became a unique system admin at a winery that actually the same winery that had that ibm 5100 because they've known me since i was a little kid worked there for a little while they were already going under and then i went off to be the service manager for a local ibm and apple dealership and they had three stores around the place so we do all the the board level service because that's what you're allowed to do with apple gear at the time yeah and you'd write some custom things and there we had we also had some projects for example importing data from john d and we would get the data on um normal um data tapes from their mainframe so we had a reader player for that which would connect to a pc so i read all the software to make that go into um i think the breeze accounting system at the time um but worked for those people for a bunch of years then went out on my own for a year and a bit and went supposedly i'm really good this technical stuff but i'm not very good at listening to my wife who'd really done a small business management course and i probably need to get a real job again yeah and let somebody else worry about the admin um so i've always wondered what it's like to be in the cops so i applied and strangely enough got in um left a family at home out in the countryside and uh did six months at goldman academy and six months in sydney and while i was in sydney still as a probationary constable i got called up by the boss one day and he said oh the uh commander who steeped the special technical investigation brand she wants to see you know i was pooping myself as a young probationer you're in big trouble but it turned out that he'd been sent a letter by somebody in internal affairs we'd helped out on a job on a beach i'm going hey there's this technical guy and yeah you should probably talk to him so he wanted me to join steve up in sydney but there's no way that you know as a constable you could afford to move to sydney from the relatively cheap country town um so did my time there and then uh having already done computer work for the regional commander for the assistant commissioner out in wagga he made griffith the training station so i transferred back home again and did the rest of my service there um where we did weird things like work general duties set up the new south wales police internet um much to the annoyance of the corporate i.t people but that was sponsored by um by pig ryan who is the pommy pete we called him the english fellow who's bought in to be commissioner at new south wales police and i actually ran a little um box running apache and windows nt sitting in the corner of my office um and hosting his office on it um and the corporates from the mainframe world used to grumble and moan etc about that and tell us that we weren't allowed to do it until uh pete literally turned up at a big meeting in sydney like just give the constable what he wants um yeah and then i uh decided to get back out of that after about eight years and that was enough and uh went back to the it world and then sort of up here into the the strange space that i work in these days um yeah so so when you say strange space that you work in um you i don't know whether you want to talk about this or not but um so your work situation has just changed you've you've just finished a desert it's about to change yeah um about to leave somewhere after almost 14 years and go to a uh a different position involved in um let's call it personal security and mumbling into slaves uh but with a very very strong technical focus that i'll be leading so um that should be really good fun because it'll allow me to use all of this a lot more than i perhaps have in the last few years and they're uh they're very excited about it and i'm very excited to be uh working in slightly familiar environment again with some people that some of us like some of us don't like but many people vote for it so we'll see what happens yeah cool um are you are you doing that from you don't need to explain where you are or anything but are you having to move or anything for that or is it something you can do semi-remotely is it a what sort of work environment is it some of it i believe i'll just be able to do here um because there's no point duplicating all of this you're already very well set up yeah so there'll be some uh and like we are where i work at the moment we're extremely well resourced but i still only half jokingly say that i've got a better hammer at home um because everything is there nobody walks off with anything and i have all the bits and pieces i could want i spend way too much time buying components that i probably don't need until that one day when i do need them which makes it easy to prototype things and fiddle with things and because i have good rf test equipment and all the other goodies um it's just a works out to be a good environment so some of it i'll be able to do here some of it i'll be um operational so i'll be traveling wherever is required um and that's i think what makes it exciting kids grew up long ago um my son is very successful in information security um working through a very large corporate company but also from home um so i'm hoping to do a little bit of that mixed with um probably most of the time working with a a small but uh really cool team of um people that i will feel very safe around good um i want to talk to you about more personal projects in a moment but while we're on the um on the subject of law enforcement uh james asked whether you can talk a little bit about opsec with police systems so uh that's a very very broad question but um yeah is there anything that you can talk about like what's it the the impression i get is that the um the the it environment within the police force is probably quite similar to any large corporate and it's got people with very varying levels of expertise and awareness of opsec issues so there must be some challenges that you would face uh well i haven't been in the new south wales in the job since 2004. so things were very different back then which is why um when they first introduced ip networking um we were able to just look at the network you could install anything on any pc that you felt like um especially i wasn't intelligent sitting in an office um and so again the situation for example we just used an old pc that we had lying around which we installed apache on and mysql and all the other things and then just stuck it on the the ip network um and you can imagine the the reaction from people who are used to working in the mainframe world where they're like you just can't do that it's like you know you're going to use up all the bandwidth and so it was funny back then they actually made me stand up at a conference of all the um local area commanders which is based on the the new york um model of having um these crime review panels where the commissioner and stuff will get all the seniors from the the regional stations in and just hammer them about their statistics and and whatever's happening so they they stood me up there and we're going okay well you know you're going to use it uses too much bandwidth and you're going to upset the network and stuff and i had all the ip and network utilization stuff there just printed out so i could tell them exactly what we were using how much bandwidth we were using the total impact on the network but because they didn't know us from a technical and i.t background to start off with they just thought they thought that was on you yeah that's right so i was like when i left there i i left the job with a reference from the deputy commissioner and also from the assistant commissioner and a few others um as this lowly sort of single strike constable which is you're just below the rank of a police dog at that stage so the um the situation back then of course was very very different and um it's of you know what you would think of horror stories in infosec these days where people can just install whatever they want do whatever they want on the network um you could run the early versions uh and predecessors of wireshark for example and some people have told me you would have been able to read emails of supervisors sending dirty jokes to each other um that does not surprise me at all somebody else may have done that somebody may have yeah probably back in the days of uucp and those sorts of things so yeah um yeah and the the original email system i think that new south wales cops had was designed as a messaging service for volvo for spare parts um so really ah okay so uh it was thing called memo from memory um yeah it was a horrible system um and yeah just was unheard of um and then they were all network hubs they went switches um like in anywhere and you had all the traffic so um yeah so these days i believe that their posture is very very good and they have dedicated you know security and cyber security teams um they're working at different classifications so you're working at that basic level that you know all the general duties would see as well as other levels that are more linked to being able to communicate with other national security agencies and those systems and stuff so yeah i can imagine it must be a um an enormous challenge managing those systems there was a uh quite a few years ago back in the ivt days one of the projects that we did was and an integration between between an access control system that's used at airports and the australian federal police's background check system and they for the background checks they published they had a system that published an api or exposing api so what we would do is collect the data from brisbane airport and everybody that was applying for either airside or ground side security clearance or a weapons license or a vehicle license for example to be able to drive a vehicle on the tarmac had to go through this accreditation process and so we wrote the software that took all of that data and then linked to the afp's api ran the background check got the result sent the approval or denial back to the airport which then fed the data into the access control system so that they could then use their card swipe um open and close the doors that they were authorized to go through um and the the idea in retrospect that whole thing kind of horrifies me the the idea that they sounds like the perfect opportunities getting into that sort of access control that's right and um and so we were the software developer sitting in the middle talking to the um the afp system we were talking to brisbane airport system and passing the messages back between them and uh yeah we could have done anything oh you want access to the runway no problem i will authorize that card for you yeah that actually sounds just like one of the scenes from the bourne films with the the young lady who's the i.t person in the cia or something and she's sitting there giving him access as he's getting his voter check done so yes yeah um yeah so ah a couple more things that we could cover um you talked to uh you said you collect vintage computers so you've got um an xd source or a mark ii which is a that's a real classic um yeah yeah and a whole bunch of other things so back in 1979 from dick smith electronics so it was crazy expensive i think they were 1495 or 1795 with 48k ram and still any tape drives um yeah but dad did a ton of simulation stuff on it so it kind of paid for itself but that was it's like buying it well it's like buying a macintosh these days yes yeah um and your the machines that you have do you run them or do you collect them do you just have them like sitting on a shelf what state are they in um they're all working the um so i've got probably much to my wife's annoyance i've got this study which we modified um it's a five-bedroom house and i said the kids moved out long ago um so two of the rooms are still suitable for visitors and for the grandchildren excuse me and then i've got this study set up which i completely reverbed actually i think we talked about this on one of your chats using the caboodle kitchen cabinet stuff oh right yes yes i've got the cabinets right across the top because it's only a smallish room but the kitchen cabinetry stuff goes like right around the door is way around that side and so i've got my little reflow oven some component storage up in the top this will make you happy here's one of your squirrels or rabbits because i've got a rabbit okay i love girl i see lots of labels 100 yeah about 100 of those little takeaway containers up there all labeled yes whether it's you know tactile six millimeter style switches whether it's motion sensing modules whether it's um you name it little switch mode blobs etc um to try and keep those components organized and after i don't know 40 something years in the industry that's the first time i bothered was this year really in trying to tidy all that up and then some more storage and the the wire real stuff etc um yep but the yeah you know kitchen cabinets yeah this is great um i'm really happy that we spent there it was a couple of thousand dollars i think it wasn't all that much because the communal stuff is reasonably economical from bunnings um but with the big draws down the bottom and the other things and a little alcove for my feet etc behind me it just works really well for me and i yeah i'm not a person who ever works in a perfectly clean environment that's just the way my brain works and some people compare that to the way that einstein worked yeah it's not a cluttered mind it's just a creative mind um so uh this room and then there's a slightly larger bedroom which is immediately on the other side of this and i've put where the wardrobe was i've built in just dedicated shelving which is just full of the machines so there's an apple two euro plus a modern the more modern commodore 64. there's a 64 bread bin the various disk drives to go with them an omega 500 uh the exedy sorcerer multitude of microbes including the uh the limited edition one that um ewan bought out um which has the little mips processor on the the core board um as a spectrum sorry sinclair zx81 hp 86 which is there more um the industrial sort of um little basic programmable i believe for the late controller type machine a mac quadra a digital piano that i can't play um another nice work bench with a couple of monitors so i can set them on the bench in there um as well as the three 3d printers so that's all tucked into what was supposed to be another spare bedroom there is a lounge in there which you could fold out if you really wanted to but probably need to rearrange things a little bit but yeah all the machines work um and for things like the micro bees and the other stuff i build some of those really awesome um let's see if i had a board here but there's a project um by hoglet67 so anybody google that which is a raspberry pi zero based um rgb to hdmi converter and does all sorts of different formats it was brought out for the big i've got a bbc micro as well it was bought out but initially for the people wanting to use bbc micros and the rgb or rgbi or analog rgb outputs and it uses the raspberry pi zero in bare metal mode so not running linux but just with firmware running straight on the processors so it's really nice and quick to encode that and spit out hdmi i think young beta um on his retro channel just had a video about using a board based on that same thing um and the designs are all free you know on github um so i've built up some of those so they're a bit easier to interface instead of using um the proper cga monitor and i've still got a commodore 1084 the um which is the amiga monitor i think the nice one but instead of using it i can just now plug it into any of the hdmi monitors or things around yeah so did that and use um gotex for the floppy disk emulation um or a gotek clone and i got a bunch of boards on jlcpcb and built those up because i think it only ends up costing you about 20 bucks australian or something for the board and all the components including the stm32 um so built those so that i can use those on the microwaves i can use them on there's a pioneer msx machine sorry as well which was a and a weird machine that also did video overlays for back in those days when people were doing you know like their own vhs videos you could plug the video source in you could do titling over the top of it okay but it's still an msx games machine as well msx computer um and they all use the you know the standard sort of floppy drive so the gotek's are great for those and you can use the gotek and the amiga as well this is the mega 500 thing and i've got a um also a disc emulator for the the apple i can't remember what it's called so i sometimes use them but i get distracted by shiny things yeah so so one moment i'll be doing lots of stuff in here and fiddling or trying to reverse engineer something and i'm doing a project with a friend at the moment um where we're trying to reverse engineer some communications protocols on a particular device which i really enjoy again it's a bit like that camera job uh getting these and nuts and bolts um yeah but then the next minute i'll want to go and you know play with the commodore 64 and use the the pi 1541 which is the raspberry pi emulator for the drive um or i'll want to go downstairs and do something on the big cnc um that i built which is the the open builds um ox um from all right i'm going to ask you about that too yeah um and so i've got that as well that i really use it but it was the joy of building it that um i was really interested in and this one's got a uh a cutting area of uh 1270 by 870 mil so it's fairly decent size that's pretty large um yeah so it takes up a full you know two meter long bench in the corner and i could probably go away with a smaller one but whatever so um what's it you also mentioned that you have it sounds like you've got all the tools you also mentioned that you have a laser cutter and you've mentioned three 3d printers yes i've got the um sorry i was just going to ask what sort of things do you do with the cnc machine um it's kind of funny my daughter runs this little sideline um label come something around the business for the fun of it um called mouse at play and they live in queensland where she does labels for bottles and things which the young mums all seem to enjoy labeling things and making them look neat and tidy because they never stay that way um but she also has um there were a couple of toy type ideas and things so initially i just did some random cutout stuff i want to try and do pcvs on it um and i've had a couple of goes but you've got to have auto leveling essentially and there are there's support for that in the various google controllers but again distracted by other shiny things um so the most recent things i had done was um to mill um the ikea style bamboo chopping boards um and turn them into um puzzle type things for um young kids so they cut out these little cloud shapes with numbers on them um and use the the k i've got a k-40 laser the same as um length sound used on k-40 yep and i really like mine yeah i've got one as well yeah um if you spend the time and it can take you quite a few hours to get all the alignments right of course take out the silly platform that's in it i've got a height manually height adjustable little platform in it and caterpillar different thicknesses and material and i use the k40 scorcher software on it um and it just does a great little job right up to six millimeter acrylics and so i use that for engraving the the wood for her um or at least until christmas because we bought her one and then had it sent up to their place and spent i think about a day in a bit getting it all as aligned as we could and it performs really really well um for the very low price yeah so do that sort of stuff on it um use it for cutting acrylics um i did a let's just see if i can find a picture of it i did an altair 8800 um the arduino based uh clone of it from my son and i'll just try and find the picture because it came out fabulously it was um blue clear blue and um normal clear acrylic and then all the switches on the front and the leds and things so you can achieve some really really nice things um so if you'll just bear with me for last one second yeah of course but yeah it's awesome for those sort of projects um i was wondering what that was but considering i gave it to money's birthday i should probably remember that shouldn't they it's just a question of what year then um well while you're looking that up um dodgy brothers just asked whether you've tried to cut metal on your cnc machine and what materials have you used i've tried um doing uh i think it's 6061 aluminium and had mixed results some people have really good results i think the biggest problem speaking to a machinist that i work with is that i haven't been aggressive enough and i should be using for the speed of the um the rotary tool and i use a crest one kilowatt spindle which is a german spindle with very low run out it's designed as a die cutter but they're really low run out um the speed that those things run at um you've probably got to use a single flute um cutting tool um because you can't clear the chips out fast enough etc and you need to take aggressive sort of bites out of the material yes but otherwise it just rubs again yeah that's right yeah um so yeah i had tried that um and used those sort of materials um and i've tried various plastics and things it had mostly been some of the the timber type stuff so it's totally under utilized like there's no way i can justify having the machine that i really use it so sorry i think i'm getting close yeah cool uh yeah dodgy um has been building a he's got a cnc machine that he's been modifying over the years and um he just commented yeah single flute or double is best for 60 61. um yeah i've had that problem as well uh with my i've got a a little cnc machine i think it's a what do they call it a cnc 6040 so it's 60 centimeter by 40 60 30 whichever it is some of those are awesome because they've built like a brick dunny it's really it's very rigid it's really really strong um but i uh when i've been cutting aluminium with it i have a lot of problem um a problem is trying to get the um the feeds and the seeds right i tend to not be aggressive enough with the feed rate excuse me my three is not doing too well today so uh yeah so i get that problem where it kind of burns its way through things instead of making chips and smudges its way through doesn't it yeah which is not very pleasant at all and uh yeah it's it's one of those things where you've just got to do it a lot and um and learn as you go learn the hard way i need to break some more bits on on my learning journey sadly i can't find this thing um there's a picture on my twitter and it'll be around i thought it was last year but it might have been no i'm sure it was last year and it was probably around end of june or july but people will find it but it was like that sort of project where you're cutting out lots of holes for the leds and the switches and you're doing a multi-layer front panel and i used some of the um is it called triflight maybe the proper um labeling stuff but the silvered version so when you're that laser through it you get the black rubbing behind it ah right right so it's multi-layered and it exposes the other color um yeah that just came comes out really really nicely so um yeah that's why i like having those sort of toys and for doing front panels if you get some some white acrylic spray black um spray paint on it let it dry um especially um the matte paint and then you laser etch that you end up with really nice tidy um white lettering which looks very similar to the stuff that you know electricians will go and get done on an engraving machine and stuff so yep lots of good uses for it in case my wife is listening you've got to justify it she's the one that brought me my laser for as a birthday or christmas present i think it was oh that's a win yeah fantastic yeah um i'm scrolling back through your twitter feed trying to find that picture but it must be a long way back so i've yeah i've got back as far as february so far uh so it'd be middle of last year sometime yeah it would have been um beginning of july or end of june i thought but yeah time flies when you're getting old [Laughter] and on the printers i've got uh one of the original um ctc blacks which was the makerbot 2 clone the dual head i never meant to get the dual extrusion that's working it always used to bang into things and i got one of the um the aldi slash wang hao i think it's the i3 and that's a fabulous little printer i've heard so many good things about that um yeah i think uh i think my friend andy might have one of those and um someone else from melbourne hackerspace as well it's yeah it was one of those printers that was um cheap enough and good enough like it um yeah it does a surprisingly good job for the surprisingly cheap price that ld had it for it sold out very very quickly i think we got it um we were in queensland at my daughter's um and i went to the aldi stores there because i saw the price kept dropping and got into something ridiculously cheap at the time and brought it back as luggage on the the flight it was well worth it yeah the resin printer i've got is the uh original any cubic photon which is great i think it's messy and stuff they do a really good job it'd be nice to have the faster exposure time of the newer models um because this one we're still talking about 11 seconds per layer i think okay if you just yeah if you just let it run then it's fine so yeah and i run an air purifier in the room to try and stop some of the smell because the first time i ever did it i stanked the whole house out so that wasn't too good yeah um i have found the image um but uh james said the layered plastic and metal stuff was called die bond so for people that are wanting to uh do yeah make their own face plates um look up die bond so i'm just going to switch my thing again all right just taking a little while to load there we go okay so yeah so this is the one that you built yep so did the front panel and all the goodies and you can download the i think it used um an arduino mega um you can just download the um the firmware and stuff but it gives you the full emulation of the machine and he was extremely happy with the fact that his old man had gone to that effort for him so that was kind of nice yeah and i can see that there is a whole lot of strip board or vero board or whatever it is in there so lots of hand wiring on those leds yeah it was a bad load of work it would have been yeah that that is exactly the sort of job that i hate doing sitting there cutting lots of little jumper wires and trying to make it all fit um yeah that's where reasonably neatly because you're in a transparent case yeah oh and this is the so i'm just opening the artwork here um so this was your version of the front panel artwork um yeah so i i think i only had to do a little bit of tidying up or changing or something um compared to the artwork that was sort of available on the project and i might have just based that on one of the the photos that was out there anyway so i printed it off on the paper first to check sizes and yeah and see if it was going to look right yeah it's really cool that you you can completely forget that there's an arduino behind it because it it gives you that look and feel thing i used to write my push bike up to uh csiro out in the countryside where um a friend of mine who's well known in the old days on um not on irc on the use um the use that you have the news group things and that's right speed that you google rod speed he is the the notorious troll um but he's a magnificent guy and he used to run the computer facilities out there and at age 14 i'd ride my push bike out and he'd let me um sit in front of a terminal on a pdf v9 and of course to get the the old nine running you know they toggle in the the boot loader and then hit the tape drive and i think it had a five megabyte um hard disk in it yeah so i was very lucky to have access to some of those sort of things as a as a kid it just takes you back to those sort of days the original day is real computing where not every piece of code is you know 50 megabytes or you know 500 megabytes just to uh to a hello world yeah so using the um using the the arduino based um like lte arduino it really has that feeling of using the original machine from your point of view because of speed same and if you stick an am radio next to it you can even play the the uh the well-known um daisy tune that they played on the real altair um it comes out the same on an am radio from the the emissions from the emi from it so it really does make you feel just like you're using it wow i'm not sure what this is referring to but james said does the mrs know you're using her thermomix strainer what what is that in relation to uh was that in one of the images i don't know what james is talking about there but she does have a thermomix and i stay well away from it i think i made a risotto in at once but i wouldn't dare anybody who's ever been married to a finnish woman knows that you don't mess with them yeah um now sorry i'm just rearranging windows here i've got i've been clicking through and opening things as you've been talking about them so i've got so many windows open all the way back to the um the rf simulation software and i've i've kind of lost where i am there's another little project that i did which was kind of fun and it was um i did a little raspberry pi zero hat um which yes sorry focus is terrible yeah i'm going to see if i can make you single uh yeah there we go it's a little hard to see um but somebody yelled out and went oh i'd really like some battery management stuff so it's got a lipo charger um cell protection real time clock gps uh four port usb hub um usb to serial a single channel uh of switching of up to 500 milliamps i think it was with the fet um all integrated onto one little board and a push button as well so you can use it for the switch off um to sit on top of a pi zero hat to do whatever you want with so this was the big expanded version so you could run it off an 18650 and whether you want to use it as a webcam or to keep track of where something was going or whatever else um but that was another little home project yeah which was good that's one of those yeah i really enjoy just throwing things together and solving little problems for people [Music] so that particular board was that just is that one that is like um something that you want to have in your toolkit because you often want power management and those sorts of things with pi zero projects yeah yeah yeah there are lots of little building blocks like that that once you build them you end up using them in all sorts of different things and then um my son had an interest in um doing some laura stuff he goes to defcon each year and sets up comms over there so he's one of the goons but we found some um i don't have the populated one in front of me sorry but there are some one watt um lora modules the e22 series i think they're called um it's got an amd radio license as well and he wanted a hat for a normal pie so again it's got real-time clock it's got provision for gps this one i don't think i put power management on but i did a um a proper bandpass filter for the output of the the laura module um that actually i'll throw that on there okay the microscope because there's something interested in that shot in the background yes i'll fire up the mobile phone camera if that's right of course go for it see if the i don't know if you've got any better suggestion but i use some droid cam on this and that seems to uh work nicely for me that is what i've been using as well it's feeding that into obs works surprisingly well let's try and find obs there we are so yeah i will make you full screen again so we can see where that's going so that image so that's my digital microscope um that's a raspberry pi zero okay we with the high res raspberry pi camera yes i apologize it's upside down um and then the macro adapter that they sell and it does it ah this has got two i don't know droid came out zoom [Laughter] and let's put it the right way up that might be there and it makes an absolutely magnificent digital microscope for um well i guess about 100 bucks by the time you buy the the camera and the the adapter yeah yeah that looks great yeah so that's looking at a little zigbee board that i did ages ago and that monitor it actually pulls it can push back um reasonably flat against the wall or else i can pull it out again as well but anyway if i put this under it something that people sometimes forget about when they're doing rf projects let me just focus that is that i see a lot of stitching there yeah that's right um so that was a 400 to 500 me band pass filter that i put on the board so if you did really want to use it especially with one more and as i said you've got an amateur radio license so we can operate sort of higher power on these things especially on the 400 and something makes um to make sure that we didn't have any nasty spurious um or similar stuff coming out of it and people tend to forget that the average little rf12 module or other things that you know let me change this back sorry um either those little rs12 modules or the laura modules or the you name it modules if you're running bigger antennas on them and effectively radiating more power um they're quite often nasty harmonics and there are outer band radiations and other things so you need to be a bit careful so that's why i put um a band pass filter on as well and that was designed using um some of the again the free tools that are around these days which you know you didn't have in the old days that might have been um lc i think it was el sie um and it's a windows um design tool which allows you to model the the low-pass filter and display all the characteristics and it builds basically as designed which is really nice even on the fr4 yes so yeah that was a squirrel um yeah well there was another squirrel that he's just given us as well which is that microscope set up a couple of people have been asking questions about that so the the first question i had was how do you have that mounted it looks like it's on some kind of boom arm is that a modified lamp base or something yeah it is um it's like the smaller version of the the big lamp um but it's like that so that i can move the thing up and down or whatever and the illuminator came with another one of the um usb output uh microscope cameras like it on ebay or banggood or something but you could just do your own led ring um but it's nice because even for let's just focus on that so even when the components are really quite large on the screen i really should change back so the scene sorry okay we did kind of think that this would just go all over the place didn't we we did it's blank let's try it again okay um so there's still enough room to get under there with the soldering iron and work with the iron um but you're getting really good manufacturing those are i think oh 603 maybe components um and so the the distance thing all works out really well and being able to just move it up and down or move it out of the way altogether i found much nicer than using the uh fixed platform that i had before and sam wanted to know what software you are running on the pie in order to get the hdmi yeah just the uh the standard um raspberry vid um or yeah i think i'm running the raspberry pi so i could actually be streaming that um and importing it into obs but i didn't have time this morning because i was trying to clear some space on my normal desk um yeah it just doesn't like that that's that's the nice thing the raspberry pi just does it and you get full screen video um you can title it if you want to [Music] i wanted to do and i can ssh into it especially if i could remember the password watch that change like a good infosec person yes um and then you could grab stills and and other things and it's you know it's really nice resolution and it looks really good so nothing special required just the standard raspberry video software um and connected to the the high res raspberry pi camera and with the um the macro lens on it yeah which i think i could do in core electronics so okay yep um have you noticed any latency as you move aboard is there any latency on the screen it's pretty much immediate yeah it is immediate like totally that there's no noticeable delay at all which makes it really nice for working under because that's really eyeballs that give me yeah very good um peripheral vision um it's it means that i can't use a normal stereoscopic microscope easily um without forcing myself to go cross-eyed or straight eyed um and so i really like using a digital microscope um and you might think that it's in the way but it i tend to sit on the stool there i tend to sit just above it anyway so i'm looking over the the screen and then the micro microscope is sort of there so and i'm very comfortable just looking at the screen i don't have no issues with matching with my fingers go compared to the screen yeah yeah so the um it's sitting kind of like in a um a microphone position so you can look over it or you can look below it and it doesn't really get in your way um yeah great yeah so that was great so the it's cleaner and better quality than the couple of hundred dollar um banggood or ebay or whatever one that i'd had before that um which i could still be using but it was much heavier because the body of the camera it's about that big and it's almost like a solar cube aluminium they made them really well but this thing's just so light that being able to put it on there on a i think that's a cheap ikea lamp so it was only 16 bucks or something anyway i just took the head off it um and normally when i'm not trying to film i actually have a an led panel sitting up there which is just low enough so that i can still open the flip top um cupboards up there but uh this will probably give you good overhead illumination yeah um so this will probably upset everybody's google device [Music] everybody hit me all right turning on the bench light and uh then like you have it's just really really awkward i don't need that small light at all when i do that and i've just got really nice illumination across the whole thing and again they were um nice and cheap i just hang it from uh chains on the ceiling i think they're about 50 bucks each or something so you know in one off it was great and it's not a cold white and it's not a warm it's a i think about a 3600k or something let me turn this off again but i'll do it manually yeah i really like using large led panels because they distribute the light very evenly yeah yeah um dodgy said in the comments um posted a link to camera info in discord now i'm not sure if that means dodgy has posted it or whether he asked for it to be posted so uh hang on i'm just gonna have a quick look in discord and uh see if it's in there so it's the ones it's the one you can buy from you know little bird or from core electronics the the normal um oh yeah macro lens and the the high res camera yeah great oh yes dodgy did posted it did post did posted it i can't speak today um yeah thanks doji that is that's a really interesting setup i've been thinking about what to do about my overhead camera as well and i thought a couple of times about maybe using a raspberry pi with a high quality camera and just mounting it over my workbench as the general downward camera and so you've got yours with the macro adapter or with the macro lens right yeah with the macro it's integrated in it is the the lens as well yeah um yeah that would probably work well with some of their other lenses i've got the other ones in the drawer as well because i bought the one or two other standard lenses that that were available for the um the high-res camera yeah it's certainly better quality than this is a 922 the logitech i'm really pretty disappointed with the overall performance of it i've tried to use it above the bench for the rare occasions but you know if i happen to feel like doing a youtube video which i haven't um but i think that i'd be inclined to use more of those cameras um yeah it looks like a really good option um okay so um one thing i'm interested in you we talked about it earlier but um which is the power analysis side of things and um yeah so the what i've got let me see if i can grab it without ripping my headset out of um out of my ears okay i got one of these little current ranger devices and this is this is about as high tech as i've got in terms of measuring very low amounts of power i don't do it a lot of low power work um but i wanted to be able to measure things like power consumption of esp32s and a266s and those sorts of things and um this just gives you uh i don't i think it might give information out of the usb port i can't even remember but it displays on the screen but it's only measuring it doesn't actually do any power delivery you have to connect it in line with a power supply or something like that so the device that you've got that you've been using for testing on that tracking project yeah so is that an integrated power supply as well yeah so it's made by koitec in sweden i think they are um q-o-y-t-ch.com um they were a start-up i think in combination with sony originally or something interesting like that um but now it's a standalone company um and vania samuelson i hope i got that right especially if she watches this um she's the ceo so the relatively small technical team um but they brought these out they're less than a grand australian which is makes them really cheap in anybody else's sensible money um it's a the power supply will do up to at 4.55 volt so it won't do right up to 5 volts but it's designed for iot things so really you're not talking about five volts anyway yeah and [Music] it has um a very accurate power supply in it very accurate current measurement i think it's down to i don't have to look at the spec it's in the nano amps um and of course you know all calibrated and that sort of stuff um so you can set up current limiting or you can set cutoff you can then graph the power supply voltage the current it has um additional a to d inputs so sometimes i actually run it with a board that has a 0.1 or 0.2 ohm resistor on it so if i do want to measure the current draw of something else that you know i can't supply from this thing um like an existing circuit so you can measure the voltage across that resistor um and then the other hd input you can use to then you know measure the voltage itself or run it through a divider it has a serial i o on it as well like a normal um ttl level uh between 1.8 and you know five volt logic and the awesome thing is that in the software itself if you've got an iot device and you're looking at serial with it as well so it's basically an ftdi bridge starting all the logs and everything are time stamped together so you can see in your device when let's say you had a raspberry pi zero if you're seeing a message come up saying while this has now been turned on in the startup log you can point to that exact location and look at the exact current consumption at that point in time and because all those tools are tied together it makes it really nice so i've got a few of these for work and then i went yeah i'm going to get one of those myself it was something that was so useful that you just needed to have one handy yeah um again don't use it all that often but you know it's it's awesome having it so and for the accuracy and the things you can do and you can also so that's stuff is all available as it is and then if you pay a subscription which you can pay a month at a time if you want like you've got a project coming up you can just buy a month of additional stuff that will give you um full python scripting battery emulation battery profiling so if you're going to use um let's say a you know a 2032 cell in a project and you've got a rough idea of what your current consumption is going to be you can then set up a script to simulate that and graph the performance of the battery and then use this to simulate the battery on the product as well instead of wearing that batteries each time um so super useful for all sorts of stuff related to low power and iot style devices and i think they're going great guns with them adjust the interfaces over normal usb as well as having a power supply to cope with the i think you can do three amps or so at all something oh that's significant this seems like total overkill for the sort of projects you'd use this in yeah but yeah if it did up to an amp i'd be very very happy at least that way you cover things like the startup surge on an esp32 comfortably yeah and the sampling rate um sampling rate i think is about four kilohertz so it could be faster if you're interested in like really really short pulses during your start-up days yes hopefully your caps are taking care of that anyway and four kilohertz is pretty darn good still to be able to see that's pretty good cycles yeah so i uh i think i ran um a couple of boards through and again there might be a couple of things on on twitter showing some power usage and stuff so well i am definitely going to look into those i'm not sure at the moment um right now i don't have any projects where it's that critical i found that this little device has been really really useful measuring very small power consumption obviously not nearly as sophisticated as that but i'm going to put that koitec device on my uh wouldn't this be nice wishlist i've just dropped a a url for it in the chat as well so if anybody's wanting um oh okay so ceon has just dropped in um a link for another device which is the power profiler kit too and um he said this is what you want if you don't want to pay that much it's fantastic but only goes down to 10 microamps okay so it won't go down into the nano amp sort of region that the coitek device will do and there was something there was something else about because i looked at those i thought they were really interesting because i was going to just add one to the drawers for the fact that um and it was either something to do with its power supply ability or the current or something it could provide anyway there was some limitation yeah but it certainly looks like a good alternative and there are others i think these days as well um this has been out for a couple of years now um but you know there are always new options and and i think there are a couple of um diy style things as well with you know very good resolution it was nice just to buy the box that just worked so yeah cool um well we don't have a whole lot of time left so i just want to put the shout out before we get too close that if anybody has um questions for iggy please drop them in the chat and i'll pass them on while we still have time to answer them uh i should have said that ages ago giving people some warning how long we've been talking i know two hours goes by like that um so sion said for the the power profiler kit it goes down to 200 nano amps so 0.2 micro amps um so yeah still not as low as the koitec system but it's 150 versus um close to 1000 so yeah it's a question of um how much do you spend for what performance you need and well it's like soldering irons isn't it yeah exactly yes i'm lucky i've got a pace station up the top there along with tweezers which i absolutely love um and then i've got um a dodgy heico clone that jk i did at one stage which is nice you can still buy the haco tips yes i'd really like to add a jbc to it that you know as we know yeah those jvc ones are they the ones that do um what is it like an ultrasonic heating or they use some strange heating technology but they do have the um the heater in the element itself and they're ultra fast and even with a a super fine tip on it um you've still got the the because they're a hundred and something what iron um but you know that into a fraction of a millimeter tip um still allows you to do really fine rework without having to worry too much about having to you know pre-heat the the board or ending up using a large tip and we use them exclusively at work so i think seon's loving his pretty sure he got a jbs evening okay i think um oh yeah yeah uh someone just commented my new jbc is amazing yeah so i think he likes it yeah i think he likes it uh so um joe and on just asked whether you've tried a ts-100 or a ts80 which is a little usb soldering iron [Music] they probably get similar sort of performance i guess but um yeah i've tried one they'd be interesting to see one yeah i've got a ts ts-100 and i've got it specifically i actually bought it because i wanted to use it on the pick and place machine because i'm when i'm working on that i'm often having to you know solder connections and things directly on the machine and i can't move the machine and my soldering irons are generally bench irons attached to the bench so i had to um uh yeah i thought i would get a a usb powered iron or not yeah not usb it's got a dc barrel jack in it just as a backup thing for something that i could use wherever i needed to be and i was amazed at how good it is it's one of those things where i thought i will get it just as a an emergency use only thing and once i tried it i realized how good it was so yeah i'm very happy with it it definitely doesn't have the um the power necessary or the thermal mass necessary to do larger joints but for fine work and light connections they're great yeah i i'm essentially on a recent assembly thing i did for someone um i was swapping between plugging the tweezers in and plugging the normal line in on the pack because the pace is the same thing that the cartridge has these are in it um yeah so i would want to add a jbc just so that i could leave the tweezers in those permanently because smd rework with tweezers that's it yeah it's magic just grab it and pick it off the board cool um now there is one other thing i want to ask about while we still have time uh you said in the email you sent me about different things you've worked on you talked about uh chartering local aero club planes to fly to wagga uh to do work on their sky unix systems so do does that mean that you fly are you a pilot yourself or were you i have a logo you have a long book and i have a lookbook that had a number of hours in it right up to going pre-solo before i ran out of pocket money when the kids were very young and after that i just flew with friends a lot and i had a one-year-old friend his son is senior a380 captain for qantas who these days spends all his time flying his drones because there's no flying work with qantas um yes yeah but he used to he had an instrument rating and so we'd go out to the aero club he'd go and do half an hour of instrument practice and he'd just go right to your aircraft and i'd fly around for half an hour and or you know three quarters an hour and he'd pick up the build which was awesome um oh that's even better and we used to do that all the time so i have a reasonable number of hours that aren't in the logbook but i've never got around to finishing my license um yeah but the this company of solicitors the recently large group of solicitors in wagga um i did stuff for them before when i was working for that um ibm apple dealership and then when i went on my own they wanted me to keep doing it um and if they had an office full of people trying to use wordperfect and everything stopped um then they just went just go grab the guys from the euro club um so the cfi from the euro club would just jump in the 172 with me we fly to wagga um instead of driving the tune of it hours um and go and fix whatever was necessary on the the sco unix systems that they had um and come back if i was doing a longer job um often i do upgrades every weekend i drive over on a friday start at five in the afternoon and finish it i've got a clock on a monday morning um yeah they said it all had to be done out of work hours that's right um yeah and i always got it done which is why they kept coming back and they didn't care it was just i would just go to the local nice hotel just down the road and they knew that i could just book in whenever and didn't need extra permission so it was kind of a good look for a one-man business at the time so yeah interesting work and you got to fly to work occasionally hmm cool um well just before we wrap up i was just wondering if there are any uh any personal projects that you wanted to talk about because we're um we're already at 12 o'clock but um if there are any in particular that you would like to know right in front of the camera no i'm just sort of playing with all sorts of random things and some of them i've shown um even though i've bagged them as being a bit of a marketing ploy the rp 2040s from raspberry pi yes i did actually when they were still available um buy about five or ten of them or something and drop them in the drawer and i used one just the other day with an accelerometer because it is such a cheap platform the only problem is that you can't really buy them and i still think that they essentially bought them out just as a teaser so you would buy people's other boards with extra features added which is the only way those suppliers could survive like if you were trying to sell these things you'd have to sell a million of them to make you 50 cents each or you'd sell your own board and hopefully make you have five bucks on it or something so um so i've done a little bit with those but not much and um yeah it's just one shiny thing after another really cool well um you are quite active on twitter and you're often posting about things that that you're working on so i'm just going to drop your uh yeah i've just dropped the link to your twitter account into the chat so people can check that out as a friend of mine says some of those tweets are angry old man yells at cloud that's still fun um now one one quick question one last question um aaron asked what is your go-to mcu for projects still the abrs of some sort because i've been using them since 2001 or something um i think i said to you that i uh i wrote a full pal timing compliant video generator serial terminal for the 8535 back in 2001 and i still find references to it on russian websites which is really weird um yeah yeah um so what are you doing on websites yeah i don't often go to russian websites for the purpose of listening to us um but i like it because i'm used to the architecture and i'm very comfortable again once i restart it takes me like a half an hour to get my brain back in sync in writing assembler and stuff for them and i enjoy writing assembler um yeah cd is good as well but it's just i like being at the the machine level and you know having that control and i think it's more the um the personal um sense of achievement or something that i get out of doing it lots of times i'll just use the arduino ide some people go you know i never touch the arduino id it's like okay well if you enjoy rewriting thousands of libraries for every project you do good for you yes um but yeah so the arduino-ish ide um or platform i o um on little things typically with you know that mega 32 or uh they get mega 32 u4 or something but now i'm doing a bit more stuff with sam things um i want to learn more about the sam the sam 34r with the integrated launcher um also going to be playing with some decker wave radios ultra wide band so they sit between six and eight gigs and they sit in the noise floor um so you can't see them um interesting and each channel is about a gig wide um so i'm going to use those on a particular project which would benefit from people not being able to see if a you know door sensor or something operates um so you if you can't see it you can't jam it and if it's that wide you can't jam it um so okay it's got those deck away modules they also have um positioning so that the modules can tell you where they are in relation to other modules in distance with a resolution of supposedly about 10 centimeters so you'll see some youtube videos of people running around um baseball around tennis courts and running along the lines and on the the diagram and actually shows them running along the lines because the couple of sensors they've got there it allows you to triangulate and plot the positions of those so they could be yeah as well so that sounds really cool so with just a couple of fixed known positions as reference points you can do some very interesting things and for 20 bucks each per module um ready to go you know to connect to a micro with a spy or something um so i got those from mauser the dwm 3000s yeah okay the fact that you just said that is very relevant to a question that ceon asked he says i have a serious question for iggy he's been spinning off names and part codes for stuff he worked on even decades ago the how the heck does he remember at all i can't tell you what i did yesterday but it's it's just there um yeah yeah i don't know the uh it it's like people remembering you know all those seven four ls series i guess and other weird bits and pieces um it's just stuff that sticks uh i leave the uh the day-to-day management of uh what bills have to be paid to she must be obeyed who's a trained accountant yeah and she in line in that regards yeah and it gives my brain room to uh store the stuff i'm interested in yeah and sometimes it needs a bit of a kick start because you forget things of course but yeah i say i don't have an ee um so i'd say in the b science talk that i'm a technologist because i'm not there to call myself an engineer especially in victoria yeah and and i but the whole engineering principle i think is you don't have to know everything you just need to know how to find out and you need to know what your limits are and acknowledge those and i've applied that in it i've applied it in electronics and thankfully i've never got into serious issues so um i think that's probably an important takeaway for some of the youngsters we get quite a few grads through where i work some of them come in as a grad as the golden anointed ones and think that they know everything and then they find out that all they know is how to learn more yes and how to find the answer you don't need to know the answer you just need to know how to find it that's right absolutely um now the uh your comment about the deco wave thing has got me interested i just found um the deco wave dwm 1000 tennis court test video which is four minutes 20 seconds long is that the one that you're talking about okay cool i'm going so you hear varying things about the range that they'll get and whatever but i bought some modules to experiment with them i don't want long range but they could be really cool so yeah well i'm gonna drop this i haven't actually watched this video yet um but and i'm not going to click the link myself because it would start auto playing but i just dropped the link to that video into the chat as well so for anyone that's interested in the deco wave modules that is yeah there's something that's really interesting to me so maybe maybe we should follow up and have a chat about that sort of thing in a future live stream so that's something that you haven't done yet you're just looking into that is that right yeah just bought the modules yeah okay and of course it depends on what you can and can't talk about in relation to that project whether it sounds like you do a lot of work helping out friends on commercial projects in which case you don't necessarily want to get free yeah but um yeah it puts you in the position where you don't necessarily want to disclose a whole lot of things because it's it's for someone it's someone else that you're helping and you don't want to jeopardize that but with this like the decker wave things i've bought them myself and i'm going to just use it with some sensors and arduino is thingies and just have a play so there should be no issues because there's no need to discuss what my long-term new job plan is rejected yeah yeah and um you've mentioned laura as well that is another thing that i would very much like to talk about sometime in the future i've got a whole bunch of laura hardware here and for a commercial project that i'm not going to mention i'm in a similar situation sometimes i'm about to have to do a whole lot of laura related stuff so talking about your experiences with that would be interesting too um um yeah and i haven't played with the laura wan part of it i've just done laura to laura okay yeah but yeah they seem quite amazing as well lots of potential great okay well thank you very much iggy you've done some very interesting things over the course of your career it sounds like you're about to get into some more interesting things as well but um we can't really talk about that so uh thanks everybody for coming along to the live stream i'm going to end the live stream and hit mute and then i'm going to have a quick private chat to iggy so i hope you all have a fantastic weekend what's left of it and um we'll see you all next week so everyone think yep thanks bye everybody oh hang on that you

Channel: SuperHouseTV

Views: 2,104

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords:

Id: L3JFjig8wEQ

Length: 129min 50sec (7790 seconds)

Published: Sat May 15 2021