Helping & Teaching Josh Through His First Basic Diag.

their viewers and welcome back to the self-made auto channel I'm here with my boy Josh we all know Josh he's the one making all the noise in the background on a lot of my previous videos of course now josh has gone off to college which we won't mention but he's off to an automotive college to get instruction comes smarter and take over my job at some point right yeah sure hopefully right so josh has finished his first year at the trade school and learn basic like we're just sort of I mean you've done some basic electrical basic basic electrical advanced electrical or tuned off basically what I did just for the electrical side of stuff any practical applications bringing cars broken cars and fixing them yet actually this year not not really because we were just working on project vehicles so most of them are kind of close but anyway okay so basically just bringing stuff in and testing it but no not a whole lot of titles so you're learning like theory how a map sensor work oh yeah you know relays and switches and pretty much then you get a car in kind of look at those components you can identify them move on yeah okay pretty much so they've had a lot of stuff crammed into you know over many months he was at school what I haven't has not had like you know customer interaction practical application you know here's the car guys that's broke you know where do we begin so I'm hopeful we can use this video I got behind this Toyota Corolla Oh 2005 as a little off on the year give me a break Oh five it's a no crank pretty simple already looked at it but I want to work with Josh on it now display him having worked here for a couple years with me oddly enough we haven't really worked side by side doing any diagnostic stuff he's you know but over here doing service work to a break work players spots entire tire guys I'd am back I guess me a break on the tires I was starting to hate the balancer but any rate we're gonna kind of work down with Josh not to put them down not to belittle anything like that but that we can use it for learning experience you know here's a car it's broke where do you start and why do you start there so like I mentioned we do have this o 5 yo to Ola no crank where you getting Josh as you give thoughts on you know here's the car you know you're working and say you're not working for me the nicest boss ever and your boss that's a gosh you know you just got you got your job here's the car out there it doesn't start where do you begin what's your thoughts well they always say step one is to verify the customer concern okay so perfect so everything still starts let's do it it's kind of nice I'm gonna have to get dirty so here we are we're gonna try cranking it nothing at all cranking it no clicking - lights up but that's pretty much it alright alright so customer complete is verified now Josh verified it now I don't want to overstep my bounds here or anything but I'm gonna give Josh a few tips that we can all learn from so do you notice anything particular about the keys just about the keys themselves the keys or anything on the keys it's gonna be something common you're gonna see in customer cars key fob house keys you know extra you know anything particular about the key fob though you may you may or may not know this so that's aftermarket all right that's not a Toyota key fob okay so that's gonna be an aftermarket remote start something to be mindful of aftermarket remote start on this this vehicle does have security system you can see it blinkin to install an aftermarket remote start you have to have a security bypass module so anytime you see one of these associated with a no start don't get excited about it but keep it in mind so the other thing I would try to is when you have a situation like this and go and put your keys back in it what's another thing that would inhibit the starter from cranking like you know if you're just trying to start the car but you know just won't crank what order some criterias that have to be met in order for it to crank you know and think about the transmission well you need some safety switch correct so yes sir that's verified in the Delta that's closing correct so if it's manual transmission it'd be switch so what could what's one thing that you could do now to verify you know is my problem in the neutral safety side of it that you could do just right from the driver's seat go on put in Drive put it in neutral yep so you could turn the key on and then you could try to start the vehicle in park and then you flick it down to neutral you know so it doesn't start in park so you just very quickly you're sitting in a car to put it neutral Cardinals strength there yep yep exactly so then you can toss it back up in park and then as I mentioned to you about the aftermarket remote start the other thing you can do too is and you don't even have to be educated on this in most cases is you know modern cars have an immobilizer system of some sort to stop them usually inhibits them from cranking not always but turn the key on and see if you see any anomalies in any kind of security light so Toyota has it here you know Ford has it on a - some GM's have it on - - so I would turn the key on if this was me and be observant of any you know security indicators anything blinking so but like I say this one the LED is gonna be here so if you shut the key off and pull the key out that should start flashing the security life may open and close the door but there's also a blink so I believe if you had an immobilizer problem you would likely have some sort of indicator to say hey you know there's something about your key you'd have a picture the key on the dashboard something like that so it's plausible that we can say it's probably not the neutral safety switch it could be but it's likely not it's doubtful that it's something to do with the security and then the other thing what's an one more thing electrically that you would have to have available so when you go to crank it it's gonna you know it's gonna be the provider for the starter good battery exactly so quick and dirty from the driver's seat can you think of a way that you could indicate whether or not the battery is you know somewhat up to snuff not you know there's not gonna be a hundred percent but it's going to give you a pretty good indicator that you know the battery has a pretty good juice in it I just turned the key on making sure that all that the dash lights up yep but that's going to be a pretty pretty low amperage consumer and you could see that when you turn the key that on this model you know goes blank there's something else you could do that you could think of right off hand that might from the driver's seat yep test horn how about headlights turn your headlights on put them on high beam that way you when you're sitting in the driver's seat you can see them shining against the wall you can see they're nice and bright and then leave them on high beam while you crank it and see you're holding it in the crank position headlights are nice and bright so you know yeah your headlights are only drawn maybe 15 amps but it means your battery's not completely spanked so I'm just trying to run this down with you this is exactly what my process was yesterday when I looked at it I hopped in it hit the key through a neutral hit the key turn the headlights on you can even turn a blower motor on high plus the headlights hit the key you know see if there's some massive voltage drop when you're trying to hit that key and get nothing and as you observed you have no clicking either so alright so in my opinion I think you're done on the inside so Josh just asked a good question we were talking about you know newer cars and mobilizer systems and aftermarket garbage you know remote starts and I was telling them to basically don't go after the customer don't act coughing like oh I got this aftermarket remote start you know we got to rip it out of there I told just be mindful and yes it's a good question is should I try to start it from the remote starters that something helpful and the answer to that is yes which I've already done on this car because that was you know part of my process it does not work it didn't work which I don't believe it will even after he fixes the problem because it didn't even you know it didn't turn on to market lights it never powered up the ignition so I doubt that that remote start even works if it's even hooked up all the way but I was mentioning the Josh that most remote starts besides having security bypass they also interrupt the starter circuit so the starter ignition switch input you know for the ignition switch like on this car it goes into the box and then you know out of the box or it's you know it's it's teed into it so there's always that potential for a break in the harness the guys that put them in typically always use vampire connectors so there's always the you know problem with corrosion but that was a good question I just want to share with you guys you're next up you recall anything that perhaps you were taught where you would go from here well since it's not doing anything unless they'd probably start SEC refuses that possibly checking ignition fuses that sort of thing okay okay all right so this is something that I ran across on iron on our channel quite a bit and it's it's it's not another josh is wrong or anything you know gonna roundabout way he's gonna get to the problem however I've seen guys go and I talked about this with Keith cuz he kind of somewhat disagrees with me a little bit is the guys that go through the fuse box on this car we have you know one probably one side maybe three fuse boxes total and my thought on that has always been what fuse do I check and you can spend quite a bit of time looking and looking at fuse boxes looking at fuse box identifications and find in fuses that you think might pertain to this circuit that might be bad so that's never bet that's never been my process know that mine is right but that's something I try to get a more broad picture before I start pinpointing down to like a fuse box so I hope you know you know cuz you can pop that lid open you get your test light you know you start going on fuses it takes a lot of time well it takes some time but then again you you know some fuses aren't going to be you know on so to speak you know let's say if there's a start fuse on here that's not gonna have power in the crank position that's something you have to know sometimes they're not identified as you know the crank views so you know might be it might just have some acronym by that you don't even know what it is you're checking to test light well this fuse is an odd was it supposed to be I don't know you know so I think we got to kind of look broader sure so we've identified you know it appears that the ignition worked and we turned it and the lights go out and the headlights stay on here's to have good battery power the engine is not cranking so what system I guess if I could say like that what system would you tend to focus on so right now possibly the initial system note I I think admission like coils inject you know you know like secondary mission what your close oh so you have like you're like intake exhaust system here your fuel system your ignition system your spark you have your I want you to fill in the blank system it's usually charging and starting so okay you would look at your starting so starting so yeah yeah so yeah you want to see so basically our problem right now is the end of doesn't crank so this is where you're going to focus your efforts you kind of got some ideas in there you know about what it might be and keep staying in that funnel stay in that direction why does he do not crank and then how would you how would you proceed from there how would you find that information you know what's it take to crank this engine over you already mentioned the neutral safety switch but there's other other aspects of the starter system you know you mentioned the ignition switch you mentioned those the neutral safety switch where would you find the information as to how this starter works or hug you know what's it take to make it crank over where would you go you know as far as like a service service Manion that kind of thing there's information yeah because if you don't know it's a there's a car you're not familiar with you have no idea you know Brandi you know you probably look at it could you mentioned you know a minute ago when you were looking at scene you know you identified the solenoid and you know battery the S wire but if you didn't know you weren't a Toyota guy you would go to service info and what specifically would you look forward there what kind of a starting system yeah would you so you'd look at there an operation would you go right to a wire diagram so you actually go right there on diagram you did it okay yeah ya know sometimes it is good you didn't mention you know the theory and operation portion of it and sometimes that is good because that would give you clues like your immobilizer or like the ignition switch or some kind of you know interrupter circuit you know it might be something I've never even seen before so both of those are valuable having service info and I said that a thousand times if you don't know the system you're working on you can fix it but you're not gonna fix it easily so I think that's what we'll do we're gonna go over we just Mitchell on demand here Joshua's gonna get a wiring diagram it's got a look at service info and I think that's the right direction is to focus on the cranking system because that's what we know doesn't work right now and you can get in that little rabbit trail of checking fuses check an ignition switch stuff like that but if we go get some service info get a wiring diagram and come up with a diagnostic plan what we expect to see where and then you can narrow it down to no time so Josh has gone on and printed out a diagram that I haven't consulted on my with any of this yet so we're going raw what do you see what your thoughts well I would say probably the most probably thing to check first we probably to make sure that there's power at the s wire down here at the starter going right to the server yep so this I'm glad to hear you say that and that's why I didn't want to give you any kind of hips or anything before so I've seen guys get diagrams like this okay and we're gonna go all the way back to the beginning which is our ignition switch so you know and this is assuming now granted one stuff we did skip Josh even though we turn the headlights on and all that stuff we should have you know got out your meter which already you have sitting out over there we should check the batteries just to be a hundred percent sure but like I said quick and dirty yeah we're good so you've identified we're going right for the starter circuit cuz you can just not cranking so I've seen guys get caught in a strap here where they say well could be the ignition switch which it could be so they're gonna go and they're gonna check this main fuse you know so it's comes from the battery they're gonna come up they're gonna check that fuse and that fuse gonna be good and then they're gonna check this fuse because this fuse is associated with it and then they say well I want to check we should check this ignition switch because you can see that we go from the battery comes up into this fuse box it goes through this future and here this am too few so it's not even labeled start fuse or crank fuse so that's something be mindful if it goes through and then now they want to go in the steering column and make sure that they have power coming out on this red wire which is for the start circuit and you know they could do that gosh that's good well what's next you know goes through this junction box and what to say here here's our park neutral switch on side transmission so now they're going to go down and check to see if there's power coming in and in the switch out of the switch you know gosh that's good what's next you know power is fed down through another junction box it comes over and here you can see with two options without anti-theft with anti-theft we have with anti-theft so here's our anti-theft relay and that's a starter interrupter relay so that's gonna stop the starter motor from cranking now they're gonna go here to this relay they're gonna check that find out that's good then they're gonna come back up and around and then perhaps you know come to this relay this is starter relay and say you know gosh is a starter relay clicking yeah and to click in you know they're gonna check power in it now it's got power coming out then they end up at the starter so I'm happy to hear that you wanted to start at the starter because that is the component we want to work that's not functioning and in my opinion it's a lot easier to go you know even though this is a simple starter circuit it's easier to go right to the source it's the component that's not working what am I missing or what what's not working there and if there is something missing then go backwards to the most plausible location you know easy stuff to get to try to split the system in half you know I'm sure the starter relay is easier to get to than si myself cut relay so you know what I'm saying you can work backwards you know boom you check it here well I've got it here but I don't have it here you know now you've narrowed down a big section so I would 100% agree that you go right for the starter motor you've already said check battery power coming into the S terminals that we call that movie yes so the S terminal when should that have power I should have power in the ignition switches on in the or in the crank position crank position yep okay any other checks they taught you on Turner circuits Sarasota's they also did if you have power at the S terminal if he also says then you could start doing voltage drop tests on you know on the battery cables but then you also got to do underground cables and yeah yep and have you don't have any voltage drop if you don't have any current flow so if the starter motor doesn't work unless that battery cable is completely opened you're not going to have any voltage drop well because the starter motor doesn't work so balsa drop in this case may not be your best option however I would unless you substitute a load with which can be done I did a video on that actually pretty recently using a carbon pile tester right of the battery my battery of my big battery test that you crank up pulls you know 500 amps on it we can hook that right to the battery hook it right to the starter ground crank that baby up to 300 amps and that's gonna tell you right away if some cables are good or not so so yep that's the only the only thing I would some I disagree on is the voltage drop because obviously the card isn't cranks you're not gonna have any unless it is open which is a possibility so yeah let's go to the S wire and test it just kind of touch it on the outside and go to that yep so it actually adds an actual connector on it so before you fiddle with the you know connector to get out and done what other test could you do with your meter to make sure that's available at the starter that's you know made a little less invasive than touching that connector should we be checking for that's true yes to make a check and make sure we have battery voltage yep don't at the start ourselves yeah correct so I just got his meter set up there now get rid of your way for him okay go ahead no these are gonna be these tests that you're doing right now just you're just going to be completely static so you're checking for battery voltage from the battery cable to the starter right yeah so look how you have your tested so what is it this is a good example here so you're on the battery stud at the starter correct yes okay what do you expect to see there just without nobody touching the key no nothing you got the Baader battery cable that runs right from the battery right to the starter there should be better there should be battery voltage there yup so you should have 12 volts there right go ahead and pull that rubber right back if you want and I think I think I was on it before there you go yep so now you can see the stud this right down here is what do you seen on your meter no I'm not seeing it okay I'll give you a minute to figure out why I even give you a clue it's an error on your end so if you want to measure potential difference so when you're measuring from positive negative you're just measuring potential difference cost of battery we see it as voltage so what kind of potential difference if you're you're going to have if you're measuring from battery positive to battery positive because that's essentially how you have your meter hooked up right now so you're saying we should I should be getting voltage down at the at the startup there should be so essentially what you have going on here is you're trying to do a voltage drop test and now you made them miss accidentally but you're you have this hook to battery positive and down here you're trying to measure the battery positive so theoretically if that cable is not broken there should be no potential difference you should have 0 volts so how would you hook up your meter to make sure you had 12 volts down there go from go down to ground on the starter all right so what we want to measure at the starter as you mentioned is you know battery positive you want to measure see if you have you know 12 volts down there so that's the positive side all right so where are you gonna hook your negative battery or your negative lead off from yours off from your meter should be down to the battery cable yep so here what you'd want to do I get your elliegator clamp screw that right back on there then you're gonna hook that to your battery negative battery that's right yep so every common mistake yeah so essentially what you're seeing here is you know your batteries is charged as a 12 point 4 volts and then you're gonna want to take your red test lead and you want to make sure that voltage is available at the starter right so now I'll take the red Tesla Jeff so I think you were what you're doing is probably getting confused with some voltage drop right right that's right cuz you got to go positive yeah by the could you I don't see the difference yes all right I'll hold that on there I think you break out a crappy connection everyo so what you did I see how you just I don't know if they can see on camera but you just moved your test lead from the nut to the centre stud of that solenoid and that is actually where you would want to be you'd want to start at that center stud and make sure that you have available voltage there what you do you know twelve point four volts same thing you out of the battery so what I guess what I'm getting at is if you just measure on the nuts on that Silla node and you you essentially could have voltage drop between that nut and where that wire hooks on because it's got to go from the wire to the nut to the stud so just like we started at the end of the circuit you know with the wiring diagram you want to go right to the last point then that voltage has to be so that is the stud that stuff goes into the cylinder the voltage has to be available so I actually did a video on this on a Kia where when you started it the thing would just click and that was it and there was voltage drop between the cable and the nut and and if you held the key neon position on Sunday with sizzle and then it's boom that start right up so so you did good by going there so that verifies that you have battery voltage available there of course that's not clicking there's no sense of doing a voltage drop in my opinion so I other thing you're wanna check you've checked a positive side now we're going to check the ground side all right so we're gonna check the ground side now so essentially you're just gonna be the exact opposite of what you had you can take your red lead hook it back to your battery positive I think about some of the stuff cuz I'm not an eager user and then you're gonna take your black lead to and start a case yeah out right to the starter case your that's kind of camera down there but as purpose yeah right a little bit card I need on there yeah this is where you have to determine do I have a credit connection or you know is there really an issue so but when it's bouncing around like that it's what we call ghost voltage there just yeah there you go get the old poker I'll be afraid to jam it in there guys right try going on the bolt here instead yeah you're gonna want it don't make that mistake go on a serger case you go right you can come right to find a solenoid case if you want you can get something shiny in there well there you go you got your bedroom together so okay yeah so you're very voltage so at this point you could have I always see this with Tesla you could actually have Hannah crank it and see if there's a change here go ahead and crank it Hannah all right let off it are you off the key Hannah oh okay turn the key back on okay so that drop that we saw there in voltage etches from her turning the key on if you want everything okay now try to crank it okay that's interesting all right so the voltage drop that we were just seeing there the change in voltage is what was or is whatever accessories are turning on when Hannah's actually cranking the key so like I said I got to get used to back using meters again so what we did even though there is no current flow that we know of we just did a quick voltage drop from battery positive it's a positive on the starter and then from battery negative to the case on the starter and that state at zero volts so I just didn't want to get tricked by seeing that you know that 20 or that 200 millivolts 300 millivolt change that we saw making you think that's something wrong with clearly not because I'm thinking we can prove that theory here sorry about the shaky camera guys is the key on Hannah okay crank it and see right there so now it drops down and I'm just hooked to the just straight to the battery okay let off it okay crank it so you can see when she attempts to cranker than the battery voltage goes down okay that's good Hannah and that's simply because of you know something else in the crank circuit or you know whatever is going on there that's really kind of irrelevant so so essentially you've identified the fact that you have available voltage at the starter you've got battery positive appears to have a good ground we can't do a voltage drop because there is no current hello what could we check at this point at the starter to see why it's not cranking now I need to check to see if we have a battery voltage at the s turn there you go perfect so now if now you can fiddle with that connector so you always try to do the most non-invasive test that you can because you start fiddling with connectors and stuff you could inadvertently fix the car and now you don't know what you did right so yep you go ahead and work on getting that connector off you get the connector off okay so the connectors off before you even start your test what do you expect this either what should you see there should see battery voltage okay and you're gonna test that using your meter yes all right and where are you gonna hook your black lead black little me to battery negative yep that's right and then your red lead right down to the end of the connector okay got in there now you're not jamming that in there Li you just touching on that that's a pretty big terminal but I guess just just be mindful don't go shoving that in there full girl and just make sure you make the contact with it okay yeah never contact okay go ahead and crank it Hannah yeah so we do have that's good so we do have battery voltage net at the s table okay so what would your hypothesis be at this point so at this point it would have to be the starter okay all right I would think all right I agree so Josh tested it we do have voltage available at the starter and the positive side and the ground side of course with no load on it at this point you know if you want to know if those battery cables are good as I mentioned to him you guys can check out my video I did on the Jeep where we substitute the starter load of course we can't stick a light bulb in there to see you know how much current you know I mean for hamster light bulb it really doesn't mean the battery cables are good so we use carbon pasta so you guys could check that video I'll share that with Josh you know off the video tell me how we can do that now he has used this meter and he has checked for 12 volts available at the S terminal on the solenoid now I always have to think that likes have not a big meter user I've set in my ways so the potential problem there is so he has 12 points you know 4 volts whole point 1 whatever the batteries down to at this point available there and of course that is open circuit tested and where that can fail him or where this can value is grab-grab over here there so we have 12 volts available there of course left stick that hold iron your fingers pinch that I give me your meter I'll touch your finger on the battery positive terminal what you meters say 12.12.2012 your body is probably over 10,000 ohms of resistance so just because you have 12 volts because you can you can't put your finger on that battery turn on touch your finger out and serve me Frank so just because you have 12 volts available doesn't mean it could carry current so at this point you can do one of two ways you could do a voltage drop test on that wire what's the pain but because of the connector now you gotta back throw and go from the battery up to here and there and that's that's a pain in the butt so this is where you know I'm a fan of this little guy so it's 700 mate 780 milliamp draw and all that starter solenoid it's gonna draw more I can go grab my 4 amp test light we can stuff in there and see if it works but if you want to know if that 12 volts that's available has enough push behind on can carry current you've got a substitute a load or doable to test on it I'm a big fan of substitute loads plus you can see it electricity kind of sucks because you can't see it so take that right so we're hooked to battery negative now he's gonna substitute a load now this is just under 1 amp however if that wire is so bad that it won't engage the solenoid he should be able to see that the test light doesn't light so I'll go ahead and grab your wire down there - and then likely touch your test light inside of it there yep go ahead and crank it Hannah oh you got nice bright light yep okay let off it just crank it again so there you go all right so hopefully that helps add to you or you know at least your memory that just go there's 12 volts of L well it doesn't mean it can carry current and you know again that solenoid is completely you know open it appears you know there's no current flowing through it we don't hear any clicking so doing a voltage drop tests on it is redundant it wouldn't have proved anything so you substitute a load now you could substitute that load on there and then do a voltage drop but you know a fact of the matter is you know sometimes you got to go with your gut and you know that test light flows almost an amp it's nice and bright it's highly unlikely there's anything wrong with the wire so yeah and I can show you how I did all this testing yesterday if you want kind of a brief rundown of how went for me maybe it can be helpful to you and helpful to other people okay so that's it hopefully that's helpful to somebody else you know besides Josh and like say he started working here a couple years ago but heads not of all things does not work side by side of me doing diagnostic stuff he's always been busy with service work and you know just kind of get him to cut his teeth on that a little bit help him along the way with breaks where he can do a fantastic brake job now he does tires great everything he does he does good but the fact of matter is we have to be taught on how to do it and he's learning this stuff in school but I'm not I'm not a book learner I don't I don't do good and you know I gotta have hands-on practical applications let's you know it's good a broken car let's fix it so and we can see I'm just trying to help him take what he's learned in school just in the first year in automotive school and start applying it as we get these cars come in and just helping to instill thought process you know how can I do this really quick now it seems like this video was long like yeah we're in we're talking but I want to know why we're doing what we're doing so when I did this car I you know in diagnosing in about a minute yesterday it got towed in I grab the keys go out say turn the headlights on look at the immobilizer look security do I see anything out of line didn't everything look good of course we're gonna base it on some pattern failures - and repeats it's not cranking first thing I did go grab a test light test like negative I go down I go right on the starter case from battery negative 2 star case hit the key nothing if there was voltage drop on a negative side my test light would have lit up then I go right down to the stud on the battery or the stud on the solenoid stick test Layton of stud hit the key test light stays on we're good if I had any large amount of voltage draft that took the voltage down and the point of wooden crank the starter my light would have went out at that point and plugged the s terminal battery negative s terminal hit the key test light lit up call the starter and move on so what that is you know of course I've been doing this for over 20 years and that's just that's just Apophis and then you learn it along the way but you did good and that's how that's how you get better you just think about it no way you expect to see you have to believe your meter and know why it's telling me what it's telling you that's about mine this car needs a starter and of course I've already ordered its itself back so do use your clues you would have seen it out there yeah so so that's that guys let me know what you think of the video Josh gonna be here all summer until he goes back for his second senior year of college where they're gonna get actual hands-on work there where they're gonna be fixing broken cars right yeah that's probably senior year you know they're gonna do classroom activity and then they're gonna go out to the workshop and hopefully fix you know some broken cars so now you get to change the serving that's it guys so let me know if you like these types of videos I'm gonna try to include Josh in these when I get some diagnostic stuff some simple stuff where we can go through simple circuits see how they work figure out a plan and take it from there finance center socials patron all that business and just remember viewers we can do it you can do it thanks for watching [Music]

Channel: South Main Auto LLC

Views: 245,843

Keywords: how to, car, car repair, to, starter, car no start no crank, toyota camry no start, start, repair, car won't start in morning, no start troubleshooting, how to check car battery, how to check car, how to fix my car, how to test car alternator, mig welding how to, bad car starter, car diagnostic, how to check starter, honda, training, ford, auto, toyota, automotive, auto repair, car book, car repair near me, car repair shops

Id: tn_TyYbrupI

Length: 35min 3sec (2103 seconds)

Published: Fri May 25 2018