What do an idealistic American president, a wicked Wall Street investor and Liberace have in common? Well, these roles have all been brilliantly played on screen by my next guest, the Oscar award winning actor and producer Michael Douglas. Michael won an Academy Award for best actor for his role as Gordon Gekko in the 1987 film Wall Street. Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. His rich career in film and theater spans nearly 60 years. He's now adding America's first diplomat to his list of roles. So what on earth are you meant to. Be an American? Michael is currently starring as Benjamin Franklin in the Apple TV Plus series Franklin. Welcome, sir. Fareed, it is an honor to be here. I'm a big, big fan of your show, So thank you for having me. Thank you. Now, it feels very appropriate because what you are portraying is not just Franklin, but Franklin at a moment of it is one of the great moments of diplomacy in history. You know, tell us about that. Well, it is. And it's one that people don't seem to know that much about. Fact. I didn't I think we all have from my sixth grade education. We know the fact that had hardly any schooling at all, about two years of schooling left to 12. We know him as a publisher, a great, great writer, University of Pennsylvania libraries, post offices. They did all this inventions. But when he was 70, right after they declared independence, they signed it. And July 4th of 1776, six weeks after that, the founding fathers get together is a bell. We need you to go to France because General Washington is suffering. We've been fighting the British now for more than a year. We're in bad shape. Ragtag armies have no ships. They want you to go to France and Rue Louis, the 60, the largest, you know, monarchy in the world to support this little tiny democracy that America has just been formed. And so he went over there and ended up spending eight years trying to woo and cajole and with all of the complications that existed with spies and backstabbers and all that, to get France to support America. And the truth be told, if it was not for France's support, we would not have had in America, we would have been a British colony for how much longer? And he had no background in diplomacy? None. I mean, he was I think they probably picked him because he was a bit of a rock star. He was very famous in France in particular because of his experiments with electricity. And he was probably a bit of a seducer. You know, he was a quite a flatterer in his day. I would well have been his wife and imbibed and had this vast knowledge, but was just incredibly effective going over there. When you portray powerful people. You've portrayed Gordon Gekko, you know, Great Wall Street tycoon. You portray these other characters, the American president and the American president. Do you think that there is some common trait that that power you know, is there something you say to yourself, I've got to puff up my you know, is there something you do? It's actually it's the opposite, Fareed, because of powerful people, the audience or the other people already know all about you. So with like Ben Franklin, he has this incredible resumé. You know, Gordon Gekko had this great resume. President Andrew Shepherd We were present president. So you could actually play against that because you're going to be the humble. Oh, look at him for that geckos case. But at Ben Franklin, everything because the audience knows so much about you. You don't have to push. So in a strange way, it's become a little more passively let them come to you. Did you find that there was something about Ben Franklin, the actor? Sometimes say, there's a trick. There's something that made me understand his personality. Either a gesture or a voice or something. What do you. Was there something that was at the core of Ben Franklin? His curiosity? He had an immense curiosity, and he had the mindset to try to be able to complete a whole picture. I mean, the way I think of it as well, we all have ideas, but very few. We can take our ideas and link them together to a full a full consensus. And in this area, he reminds me a bit of Elon Musk. You know, he had that same kind of wild imagination about taking Things were impossible. A good self-deprecating sense of humor and all that. Some differences of of, of course you are. You also have great curiosity. And you have often, I've noticed, taken something from your roles and applied it to your real life. So very famously, you're a very you're very active on nuclear nonproliferation and all that came out of the China Syndrome, correct? I read somewhere that you have taken from Ben Franklin, his love of Marcus Aurelius. I have I have I have become a stoic. I've started doing a lot of reading about stoicism, and I'm very impressed and do. TEGMARK Do you think, Benjamin Franklin for giving me that? What what does it mean to you to be a story? Well, it's it's something somewhere between the Protestant ethic and my my own Judeo roots. But it basically involves being the best you can be every single day, not reaching necessarily outside of yourself, but nurturing what is inside of yourself and drawing the best from everybody which you're out and giving the best that you can can give. In the Jewish faith, they have an expression called cyclamen, which means to repair the world, to make it a better place. And I and it's we have to remember that stoicism 300 years B.C., was was that was it That was the major, major faith in Christianity. Seemed to push it to the side. But there's a lot of qualities that I've, I find very helpful. So Jewish, stoic. Yes. So let's talk about age. You're about President Biden's age. You're doing fantastically. You look like a million bucks. Why don't you fully run for president? Oh, I did the movie once, you know. But I did. Ever attempt to. Well, I knew I had the ending, you know, So the difference really had the ending? No. They asked me to run for governor a couple of times in California earlier time. And I remember saying, well, where do you want me? Well, we need a man who can finance his own campaign. So, yeah, you know, who has a credibility, notoriety, who who is well known around the around everything. And I remember saying, You sure you're not looking for a kamikaze pilot? I said, I don't think so. So you and Biden are about the same age. What do you do you think? Are you one of those people who wished he had bowed out and left the field to somebody else? How do you how do you think about that? Well, I think I think that I walk a little similar to him and the people that I've talked to and everybody that I have say he is as sharp as a tack. He's fine. We all have an issue of memories. And as we get older, we forget names, something he's overcome, a stutter, his life, and sometimes he might. But let's just say that his is his entire cabinet, including his vice president. Everybody in his cabinet would be more than happy to work with him again in the next term. I cannot say that about the other candidate running because nobody in his in his cabinet for 2016 wants to be involved with him. Do you do you think when you you know, everyone says, yeah, he's okay now, but you know, what's it going to be like the next four or five years? But you're you're going to work for the next four or five years. You're not retiring. Well, I'm not. However, I will say we did, frankly, in 2022 and after 165 days of shooting for seven months, I haven't worked since. So I look, I took 23 off and we're going into 24 and I must say, I'm enjoying the time off. And I think he'll be he'll be fine. Thank you very much. We have a this is probably the most important election of my lifetime. I share with my kids to the Vietnam War. This is the most critical time in my lifetime, and I can't remember where we're at right now. We need somebody in control in power who has some experience and knows how to work on a global situation. The world. You can't ask for one side. For us to be active globally, but then internally say we're just going to isolate. It doesn't work that way anymore. I think this a year also for us to really remind ourselves about local elections. And I think if we're going to kind of adjust, we have to start from the bottom up, not the top down. And so I think all of us who go for president should be actively involved in our local elections, too. Well, this is an honor and a pleasure. And what a career. I mean, all in all of you. You're very kind for me to keep going. Keep on. I can't wait to see you again on Sunday. Thank you, sir. Thanks. Thank you very much.
