Hard Intentions

well i think it's episode 15 back with the damage done podcast pretty damn excited about uh today's guest man uh most people here know the two episodes we did with with uh one subject and the way we crossed paths with with with today's guest is through that video and i'm pretty happy about that he has quite a interest i'll call it an interesting following some some loyal supporters didn't always say the nicest things about me or you yeah but but uh mitch has always been nice and kind and fair and just very straight so uh we have mitch smiley hard intentions here man thank you for being here thanks for having me guys you guys got a cool channel uh i like it you know and uh you guys doing a good job we're trying man you know that's what we discussed it's just like uh and i think it's it's it's i don't know it's good for people to know just uh you may not like uh our guest but uh doesn't mean we can't like each other right and i think that that goes there's i don't know i have that in in friendships in my life certain people i like other people may not like but uh we're doing what we're doing and uh you know obviously the the the big elephant in the room that everyone wants to talk about because you had your videos that did well and we we we have our episodes with with mike um we can address that if we want but just to let everyone know because there's going to be a lot of people clamoring for like this debate this is the mitch smiley episode heart intentions because i'm sure as most of your followers know but i'm saying this for for the people that are now following us they they don't know you and and as we said at the the second mike thompson interview like this is not a prison channel we're addicts we're we're criminals in our own right we're not we're not saying we're we're billy badass [ __ ] uh we're not saying we're really badasses man we could take on and and we've done a hard time we're not doing that we just i [ __ ] up my life pretty bad i've devastated people i care about pretty badly created a lot of damage right and so like the the whole damage done thing is some of the some of the best people can make some of the biggest mistakes you've made mistakes in your life and you have value to add to society and uh i think it's important to to to touch on that i think i lost my train of thought on where i was going at first i kind of got lost there do you want to ask about you know mike thompson and that's how i saw your channel actually um i've had a channel for over a year now going on a year and a half actually um wow it's amazing um but uh and the whole time i've had my channel you know obviously i i did 38 years in california state prison i got arrested when i was 17. i got out when i was 56 so i was in prison that time when mike thompson was in prison and yeah i was in prisons where he was at and people would ask me the whole time i've had my channel do you know mike thompson what about mike thompson what about my thompson i was like yeah yeah yeah i blow him off like yeah because i didn't really want to talk about him and then i saw all of a sudden you know that he was out and that you guys did an interview with him and uh so i had to do kind of a rebuttal video about it because you know i know friends of mine that weren't tracy with them obviously you saw the photographs i posted on my interview on my video about him uh and i was in prisons where he was at i know what he's about i don't like him um for various reasons and a lot of the stuff that he says uh in his interviews with you guys is [ __ ] and i wanted to do a video and kind of set the record straight yeah um and you know i don't fault you guys for because you guys were not in prison for you know maybe you're in a county jail or he's a little time here there you don't really know you know what was going on in the 80s in prison and 90s and and you know so i'm not saying that you're naive as people but as far as him and his situation you went in it kind of unaware what what he really is all about and you know i give you credit for doing the second interview and trying to you know call him on some of the things that uh were basically were untrue you know sure and then one of the main things you would talk about i haven't finished i think i you reminded me of my train of thought because there's going to be some things questions i might ask and some of the some of the comments uh on youtube is like i can't believe this guy shane no i'm not saying i'm mason shane over there uh said what's a fish granted again we're not a prison channel there's a lot of uh everyday let's call them everyday people i don't know man people have never been to prison that watch this they need to know for context but i know what if i said what's a fish or something whatever something like that yeah we're not gonna address every single comment that was that no no but i'm i'm bringing up that main point because throughout this interview if we're asking for that it's not because we don't know it's just because there's other people we were being mindful of other people but one thing well part of it's also is like i don't know the lineage of the aryan brotherhood because i don't need to know the lineage of the aryan brotherhood it's not important to me yeah what's important to me is to talk to somebody people like mitch and the other people that are close personal friends of mine that have done egregious things like murder that have done things that have you know become productive members of society and i don't need to know the hierarchies of how the gang started and why it started like it's cool to talk about but that's not the meat and potatoes of the episode yeah you know and i think and i think mitch knows that too and that's one of the main things we spoke about unbeknownst to a lot of the people in the comments again we're just addressing that just for context sure but one i think and correct me if i'm wrong that's why you're also part of why you're here we're addressing this elephant in the room is you you had a problem with the stories but you never had an issue with what he's doing now and that's and that's the main thing we're talking about is everyone's redeemable whether you believe he is or isn't neither here nor there we believe he is we believe you are we believe other criminals and convicts are but is that fair to say that uh that that was one of the main points you were driving home uh you know like with my channel i i don't glorify prison there's nothing glorious about being in prison and you know i know a lot of guys have gotten out of prison um you know i have a friend of mine now you interviewed on my channel named juan he was uh you know he was a mentor they called mentors he took counselor training and he he was a mentor they can't call him counselors because he was an inmate a prisoner but so he was a mentor in the long-term offender program that i was in this guy went into prison with two murders life without because he was a juvenile they couldn't give him life without he got a regular life sentence uh bottom line he's out now and he's working as a drug counselor and and he's helping people and he's making amends to society by you know helping people uh keep their life on track and you know i mean i remember being in the classes with him and and uh you know he's a black dude and he told me man you're just a white version of me you know and yeah that was funny but um yeah yeah i mean guys get out of prison and do amazing things something yeah and i think this is the [ __ ] that needs to be talked about man because everyone comes with the stigma you've been in prison and you're just that it's harder for you to get lines of credit it's harder for you to get jobs it's harder for people to take you serious and i don't see it like that's not my experience i might not look like uh you're your typical junkie or whatever he might not look that but like the fact is we are and because we've been where we've been with with our addictions we've we've met people people like like yourself that have been through some real [ __ ] we we have their respect just because we whatever they like about us they like about us and we we see what type of people they are and even if we reach a few thousand people hundreds of thousands of people one more person letting people know that like hey regular society can look at people as convicts as regular people as they should i think that's that's important and so is there anything we want to address about the elephant in the room before we we get onto mitch's story um no i mean something might come up and we'll talk about it but yeah let's let's go back to kind of yeah because this is the mitch episode what yeah exactly what what got you you know what kind of landed you in prison what type of life life were you leading up until that point and yeah shed some clarity on that and then we'll we'll go from there well i went to prison when i was 17 but um i went to youth authority i was like 13. uh you know i got out i was uh 15 or so and i went back for another year i got out i just turned 17 i got out and you know i stayed up for about a year on a little shot of a year and i got a murder um so let's talk about let's talk about that that's uh an important thing yeah the thing is um the events leading up to that are you know divorced broken homes foster parents uh alcoholic parents narcissistic parents you know and so you know when my mom divorced my stepdad who had a heavy hand you know it was like uh the boot was off my neck and i started running the streets and um prior to that you know i should run around the neighborhood with my younger friends and and uh you know guys in uh that were biker type guys outlaw motorcycle riders they were kind of our mentors they were guys that we looked up to they were guys that treated us with respect some of them were as old as my dad and um who was a real piece of [ __ ] abusive alcoholic never had a good thing to say right sure so these guys in the neighborhood they rode you know motorcycles uh some of them were in bike club some of them weren't you know they treated us good and and i grew up in a place in san diego on lakeside that it had a lot of those type of guys it was like bikers cowboys and indians because we had an indian reservation right on the edge of town so i went to school with all them guys and so that's kind of it was a rough and tumble area you know and uh with a bad reputation you know so um once i started i've been to youth authority you know and and uh i got exposed to gangs and drugs and serious drugs and learning about that kind of [ __ ] so you know when i got out you know now i could tell you you know i was just a [ __ ] up kid with uh a bad attitude he didn't know how to deal with his problems you know but um at the time you know uh i was on my way to being an outlaw [ __ ] with a motorcycle and a drug sack you know because that's that's who uh kind of showed you some ex you found some ex from what i'm gathering you've found a lot of acceptance in those types of people that are like your role models you modeled your life after them sure and so that that's that's what you knew um and it's interesting because we've had quite a few people commit and commit some serious crimes on here and one of the common themes it always starts with seemingly like broken home and they it's like it's it's like on a very like a young age right and they start going around their neighborhood common thread and they're they're finding they're finding love acceptance thrills in the people in their neighborhood so this is similar to what's going on with you at this point correct sure sure that's that seems it's damning for a lot of people and it sends you on a trajectory to now you're you're out of the youth authority and you're on your way to would you say being an outlaw [ __ ] out loud badass i think that was the word man and you're trying to i don't know what you're trying to live up to that and this is this is what brings you to your your most major crime yeah you know i mean when you're young and you're hanging out with guys they're in their mid to late 20s early 30s some of them in their early 40s you know and they're telling you things and i mean i met guys who did time for murder that were on the streets um you know they're like they did five to 14 years depending on whether they had a first or second degree murder and i thought well you know hell i can do that you know i'm young if i if that's the worst crime i get busted for i can handle that you really thought that when you got 17 you're thinking i can do 5 to 14 no problem sure sure i mean i always looked at like if i get busted for that type of crime that's the worst crime the most time i could get i could do uh you know second degree guys are doing five years first degree they were doing 11 to 14 years so i thought and i knew some guys that did that you know and i thought well you know i can do that yeah you know you know i had the same train of thought though too when i was um again i was impressionable and i was young and i was arrogant and i had a group around me and i felt impenetrable and larger than life and that i was untouchable and when we were you know trafficking and moving lots of drugs i was always like what's the worst that could happen if it's a first offense you know you got you got enough money for the lawyer like what's really the worst that can happen yeah and you know um then the dea and stuff start showing up and arresting people and then that that fear really really sets in but still it was that same attitude of like if this is the worst that can happen and money can solve it and it wouldn't be that big of a deal then i'm gonna push it to the limit you know because that's just the type of mentality and type of person that i am and that that i really was and so i i can definitely relate with that absolutely yeah um if i would have been pushing uh selling drugs harder and and a little less on the you know i'm a tough guy mentality yeah i probably would have got busted for selling dope instead of uh you know a 187. yeah but why really resonate with stories like yours and you know uh michael's or even just anybody frank cesar lance all these other people is like i was or could have been that each yeah each and every one of you because if i was in a house for a couple minutes more if i went to go pick up the 40 50 grand the guy owed me and i was in the house doing some blow with him when the feds raided like my story would have been different you know um yeah and then the other thing is too one time there was a home invasion that i didn't really know what was taking place but like i went because some stuff got stolen and we ended up you know they ended up kicking this kid's door in and when they like cocked that pistol and put it to his head and i was there i like drew the line i was like it was my stuff that got stolen i don't need to be paid back for it but you're not about to do this right now to this person yeah you know what i mean so it's like there are instances where like if that would have happened my trajectory would have been completely different you know what i mean so it's an accessory to murder you know especially young people they don't realize like you know it's it's uh it's if they're using and selling drugs they don't realize how fast uh things can go south you know like um everything can can be uh peachy keen you know and i like i have a homeboy that sold drugs he manufactured speed back in the day and uh you know one of the homeboys got out he was shooting steroids snorting crank driving iron you know on the street and and he robbed my homeboy and uh my homeboy beat him with a baseball bat like 50 60 times and shot him in the head and killed him so and you know i mean that's how fast things can go south just like that so i can run up on you and treat you like you know like some punk and take all your [ __ ] and then what are you gonna do you know the world i come from you know god can't accept that so he killed him right yeah and i know story we know stories too of where you know people have killed people over or over jack and car stereos just because you don't do that to me yeah over two grand drug deaths so over nothing i mean like life is cheap when you're running around in those types of circles you know and i'm grateful to be on the other side of it and to have a little bit more clarity and to look back at the events that i put myself and my also my loved ones in in like harm's way that you know thankfully everything you know worked out for the best absolutely man so at this point back here you go so my case was um i was in a bar with a couple other guys they were both 24 years old i was 17. you know biker bar uh they had just had a funeral for somebody a couple weeks prior to that um he got killed in texas and and uh you know a guy in a motorcycle club came and sat down by us in a bar and uh he was in a motorcycle club we didn't really care for and he started talking smack about uh this guy said he was a punk and he got what he had coming and i was like wow you know and he hit my friend in the face with a beer pitcher and i got involved um it went out on the sidewalk uh he was on this guy my cody finished chest beating him and so um i started uh kicking field goals with his head and stomping him and somebody else stabbed him and he died and so all three of us went to prison i was convicted of second-degree murder by vicarious liability so yeah remember we talked last night that's a that's a long name for a chart versus the second-degree murder man um yeah aiding and abetting by vicarious liability yeah and that and that like you were saying that could have been you at the situation that could have been me in any situation where we're trying to be tough and young so we don't like someone stomp them out do whatever they end up dying it's uh life changes quick but at that point in time so you you ended up doing 38 years but you didn't know you're doing obviously 38 years at first so you did the person die immediately there you found out after the fact that the person died well you know like i wanted to stomp him out and take his patch you know and and obviously i knew i saw him you know he got stabbed and so we split and ran out of the bar um but i knew immediately that he was gonna die because he got stabbed in the neck and uh you know it was a lot of blood and uh what were you feeling at that point in time because that kind of changed your mind you want you your mindset was like i want to take his patch keep stomping him out and then you're like it's time to bounce and were you did you were you feeling so idea i was going to prison you know and i thought man what the [ __ ] you know you know uh who the [ __ ] stabbed somebody in front of 10 eyewitnesses you know yeah um you know at the time i was young and and uh you know i had kind of a callous heart i've been to youth authority a couple times and like i said i grew up with kind of an [ __ ] uh violent stepdad and you know uh fighting tough guy [ __ ] was kind of uh ingrained in me and and uh so you know you say oh you know [ __ ] me had it coming you know that was your mindset you know that was a mindset and that's and that's kind of what's expected of you to say you know at the time but were you truly feeling that yeah were there feelings of like anger that some or like frustration with somebody that obviously if you had three guys and they had one i mean i've been in a lot of fights myself and sometimes you get jumped and sometimes you do the jumping but typically when you have three on one like you don't need a weapon you know right so why why resort to that when you know i mean i don't know were you feeling some sort of like were you upset with the guy that stabbed him i was upset about it you know and uh but you couldn't act like that you couldn't you're not the best of friends anymore you know but that's another story but um yeah i was upset you know and uh he was like oh you know you're gonna go to youth authority and i'm like dude i've been to youth authority twice they're not taking me back so i knew i was headed to prison and um when we got arrested they offered one guy second degree he offered me and another guy a manslaughter so uh second degree was 15 to life manslaughter was six years but it was like all three guys had to take the deal or no one could take the deal unless they wanted to testify and so was there a conversation that you three got together and talked about like look this is the deal you you stabbed him like if we all agree to take this deal i don't i don't know what it was like or you know that's why i'm kind of asking for insight was it you had to testify against him obviously the guy um who was offered the second degree it's kind of hard to step up and take a deal with that carries a life sentence you know yeah and so he didn't want to take the deal so it kind of um he wanted to try yeah kind of [ __ ] the other two uh so we went to trial and we got found guilty and we all got uh 15 to life and then he got an extra year for personal use of a weapon during the commission of a crime so you know what's that experience like man sitting through trial you're 17 going maybe going on 18 i don't know how long you were down before you got sentenced but uh did were you at any point like regretting that lifestyle or you were just hardened at that time you just you just had that mentality like this is this is this is my life you know i just i didn't really regret the lifestyle i was living i just kind of regretted um you know i only knew my crime partners for about two months no sure so it's not like we were the best of friends but um you know it's like i i bit into the to the lifestyle i signed up for the thing and so you know it's time to it's time to ride it out you know when you get on when you get on on the rod you don't know which direction it's going to take you you know and unfortunately um it took me a direction i i didn't like but uh you know there's no way out there's no you know my lawyer came at me and he said hey uh after the manslaughter he says you know they offer you an assault with a deadly weapon if you testify and i said man [ __ ] that you know and then damn then he came at me like a month later and he goes if you agree to testify they'll let you go home tonight and i tell them i'm not [ __ ] taking no deals you know and he goes well they want to make a rat out of you or they want to send you to prison i said that i guess i'm going to prison you know what a [ __ ] decision to make at what 18 years old yeah i turned 18 in the county jail yeah so you became an adult there and you're just like hey this is just not what i'm doing you just yeah where were you first sent like why i went to chino and then san quentin what was your feeling when you arrived at chino i mean i know you were in you know youth authority before but it's different walking into somewhere like that right yeah it's a lot different because you're around grown men and um you know obviously i spent almost a year in a county jail and you know hearing all the stories and all that [ __ ] and most of which were [ __ ] but um uh you find once you get to prison the guys telling the war stories in the county jail or not the guys that were uh actually committing the you know the violence that they were talking about but um you know you get to chino man back then and there's a big concrete area grill gates they put a trash can uh in the middle of everybody and there's like 20 25 guys and they say everything in the [ __ ] trash can so all your clothes everything cosmetics everything goes in a trash can and i mention this on my channel you know that's like uh that's that's when it really sets in that you know you're you're not you're not going home anytime soon you're you're in a different world now the world beyond prison is now being thrown in that trash can and that's it along with all your belongings i mean that's it you know it's uh you know then you go in back then um you know you got booked in you took a shower he sat in a holding cage and they had inmates that were prisoners that were clerks and they had your files sitting right there and you know they type in all your pertinent information who's your next akin uh what's your contact information you know in case something happens to you what's your religion what all this stuff goes in your central file and it was a prisoner typing all that stuff in your file and he had your file sitting there yeah so if you were in prison for you know rape or child molesting or some or if you were an informant it would be in your file and it was known immediately and it gets passed around i'm sure too oh yeah before you got to your cell man you everyone on the building that you're going to would know that hey this guy's no good you know [ __ ] yeah so 18 mashing into with it with a bunch of grown men then it was this like uh it's like the ivy league for prisoners you you end up pacino and then you go to san quentin man that's that's that's i mean it's is at that time especially that's that's as high level as it gets correct yeah yeah so how did you start adjusting your first your first little bit of time there you're it's hard to accept that you're gonna you're sentenced to almost as much time in prison as you've lived life right uh yeah i mean you know i had 15 to life and um you know my lawyer i said so i'm going to be out 10 years right because back then you did two-thirds of your term and then you were eligible for parole so everyone says oh you're going to do 10 years you're going to get out i'm like yeah cool i wouldn't talk to my lawyer i go so i'm going to get out 10 years right and he goes no what i remember had a pack of cigarettes in my hand you know i was smoking and and he goes in 10 years you're going to be eligible for parole and you're going to go in front of the parole board and they're going to determine whether or not you get released and i and i just sat there and he goes in and if they don't want to let you out they can hold you for the rest of your life and i remember i dropped that pack of cigarettes and i was like wow cause you know it set in like i'm a [ __ ] up you know and you know so i'm not gonna go to board and get released you know and oh because you knew you knew based on the way you operate in the world that you're going to probably be doing some wild stuff that's not going to be considered good behavior yeah you know and like i said you know a lot of the guys i was in youth authority with they were already in in prison when i was impressed in we used to get letters from san quentin from guys that were impressed in that got out got a case and went to san quentin so and i had friends in tracy writing me letters um i had friends that were in tracy when mike thompson was in tracy and they were sending me letters telling me what was going on and you know tracy white dudes are getting stabbed and killed almost on a daily basis really um it was ugly so i knew where i was headed and i knew how i was gonna act and and i knew that you know it wasn't gonna play well with the parole board so i just thought right then and there i thought well you know you know it's not going to be good yeah you know what are some of the experi like so you didn't affiliate or join a gang or anything like that or did you no so what were your experiences like what i mean did you have like other people that you were kind of with together that had each other's back i mean i don't i don't i don't really unders do many people go and stay kind of just they don't join anything and they just fly solo and whenever they have to handle something they handle it yeah back then you know that was like you know 79 80 81 so um back then you know if a guy did an armed robbery he might get three or four years drug cases three four years guys have five years six years um and the average age in prison was um mid to late mid 20s late 30s you know there were no old guys in prison really um i remember before i got out i was like man look at all these old dudes in their 50s and 60s and when i went to prison wasn't like that so you had guys that had job skills you know roofers uh plumbers carpenters they'd be on the streets they get out of prison um you know they work for a while they start dope feeding it then they do some crime then they come back and they get out and they'd stay out for three to five years and they'd come back so and they were just regular dudes that were criminals uh you know they committed crime for money um and then they would party you know um the whole thing about committing crime to get high was not that whole uh mentality or concept really hadn't taken root in california yet um so you got a lot of dudes that were good dudes they were smart they were stand-up dudes um they actually kind of looked down on dudes that joined a guy hooked up with prison [ __ ] but my thing was you know i'm a biker i grew up around bikers um there were guys in motorcycle clubs uh and you know they're good dudes so that's kind of where i gravitated towards guys the bike club thing and you know they they kind of taught me how to live in there you know you also went to when you got sentenced it was kind of precarious time at least in the state of california um because they were getting a lot tougher on criminals and crimes and dishing out harder sentences and and more punishment isn't that correct yeah yeah yeah um like uh second-degree murder carried five to life and then i think 77 they passed sp 42 uh senate bill 42 that created every prior to that everything had an indeterminate sentence so you would get like two to ten for possession of heroin or uh two years to life five to life you know and so the sb 42 gave everybody uh a determinant sentence sure except for first degree murder was still uh seven up and then they made second-degree murder uh seven nine eleven i think and um and then right six months before i got arrested they made uh second-degree murder was fifteen of life and uh first degree murder was 25 to life and then they came out with a life without as well so basically the beginning of the tough on crime so if you would have committed your crime six months prior you would have uh more more than likely than not spent a lot less time in prison that's fair to say yeah i would have got nine years flat flat term and not ended up with 15 the life doing 38 that's nuts yeah and those dude are you aware i'm not aware you probably know uh these those laws they're still in effect those type of tough on crime laws or have they been revised since then you know they're still there i mean you still get 15 alive and 25 life but um you know the i remember i went to cmf vacaville to do some liver programs and we're on the third tier and these guys you know one of my friends he was from oakland uh older guy he got busted in 1970 and we were looking out over the out the window watching him build solano prison and he goes hey man this guy's older than me you know he was kind of uh you know he's a mentor to me i like him he's a friend of mine and but he goes hey the party's over like what do you mean because you see that over there i go yeah he goes it's over and that was the beginning of the end as far as uh prison went you know really yeah that was one of the first new prisons they built with solano and they used all the new prisons to gain like almost total control of the system you know and what do you mean what was he referring to when he said the party's over party's over uh literally um you know like back then we used to sell dope for cash you could walk out the visiting room with you know what a hundred dollar bills and drop them on your old lady's lap yeah now with that new technology and new prisons i guess um well now they should drop before you go out right so and i mean guys who tried to swallow it with a string and just you know i mean and not only that it they made it harder to get things in there um like i used to be able to go to guys that worked in the warehouse and say i want this you know i want a case of those and they'd be like all right and i'd give them you know uh weed came uh chapstick caps was a measurement of weed that used to cap a weed was a chapstick cap that's five bucks cash ten dollars canteen so i'd be like i want a case of those whatever or i want a new pair of those shoes coming in and be like all right give me uh three or four caps of weed you know it's a lot of bartering um you know like it was my job to get food you know because uh that's what i did so we had the food manager's clerk sewed up yeah uh he was a military guy he had a life sentence the food manager was a military guy but he was an alcoholic and he liked to sleep so he left let my friend randy run the kitchen so i could go to the food manager's clerk walk into the diet kitchen fill up a sack of food whatever i wanted and walk out and take it home [ __ ] you know and so that prison that's where you met with the party's over so that way of operating when that was that was done with with those news type of prisons correct all right right party was over man uh damn yeah i went to donovan in 93 and i worked as a plumber and there was a guy in another yard he was a prospect for motorcycle club i knew some of his friends and this and that and i'm like hey bro i need some meat and some vegetables so every saturday he drove on the truck that delivered the food to all the yards and he would drop a sack of food off to me every saturday and and uh i got 10 pounds of hamburger and a sack of vegetables and the guys in the yard are like man where'd you get that at i mean it just blew their mind that i had that i had that and i was like where the [ __ ] you guys been you know you know i because i had an old school mentality and these guys are new never been to an old prison sure you know i was like who the [ __ ] taught you guys how to do time you know well not you mitch was the the food plug he was the food player the godfather of the barter system man um everybody did that back in the day you know sure sure man so still backing up a bit before you got super skilled in that you know shane touched on like like who you are associating him with and what not you're in prison for 38 years so i'm you're uh i'm gonna make an assumption say you're exposed to some violence right how long would you say it took you uh to get exposed to violence it was it was a pretty immediate because you said it was a kind of a rough time especially being a white inmate was that something that was immediate whether it's like immediate survival fighting for your life you know i got a stabbing uh like two or three weeks in the in the when i was in chino and yeah i went to the hole but um within a year i seen my first murder you know i've seen a guy get killed um what was that like for you man uh you know when you see the dude laying there dead you know it's like wow you know um of course you have your exterior you know i remember this guy told me i bet you bacon and eggs on sunday that guy's dead and i'm like no bad you know guys are cracking jokes about the guy laying there dead um you know guys 24 years old he had wife kids um you know guys are laughing because he came down from another prison and he had a kite with him and the kite that he delivered to somebody without reading was his own hit he delivered a kite that said to kill him and they killed him and uh so guys are joking about that [ __ ] and but you know when you're in your cell reflecting on that it's like uh it's a head he's dead you know and that that could be me someday laying there you know and and then and you also realize you know how little people really care about other people in prison you know it's a hard thing to come to terms with i'm sure i mean you said something at the exterior when you're joking with the boys or whatever out in the yard that's one thing but what you to me what you said is important when you're reflecting there at night when you're alone with your thoughts that's probably when it gets pretty deep when you don't you you're with yourself there's no exterior it's you on the interior right that was a tough pill to swallow right it's like damn someone can joke about my life like that yeah i mean and you see you know like you know i've seen guys die later on too but um and guys you know i mean i saw a guy swallow eight ball crank and it busted in his stomach and he died and guys are like uh they were pissed off like seeing how much some of that [ __ ] dope was mine you know i mean i'm like hey dude that guy's dead man you know they're just mad because they didn't get their cut you know their issue yeah you know and you realize um early on i realized how how cheap life is in prison and um how little you actually care uh other people actually care about other people and um you know i i gravitated towards uh guys that ride motorcycles on the street guys they were in bike clubs uh and you know our thing has always been you know we want to get out we want to be free that's the whole biker thing is freedom you know we want to ride motorcycles be free uh you know brotherhood kind of mentality and even though i wasn't a member of motorcycle club i gravitated towards them guys and and uh you know i felt like those were the only people that had any concern for me sure especially since a young age as you said man that exactly you weren't getting that love from your family so you were conditioned even from a young age and then throughout prison that's that's who you're with so that's that's where you found that love and acceptance correct yeah but but the thing is when you see guys getting hooked up in prison and different organizations and whatnot yeah and they and they walk around like you know they're the [ __ ] of the walk you know next thing you know their friends are stabbing them they're only getting a paper dope or whatever um and then the guys i'm hanging out with they're like hey that shit's not cool you know and and uh you know like one of my friends he's older guy he goes look i never ask anybody to do something i won't do myself and i and i actually saw that uh come to fruition you know um somebody didn't handle something that needed to be done and he went out took care of it himself but uh you know but these are guys like i'd say hey look man uh i want to stab this [ __ ] for this reason because i felt like the guy was a threat to me and they'd say hey look you don't need to do that you know if i thought that guy was going to do something to you i'd go stab him myself and don't worry about it and that's a common type of thing people feel threatened so they try to they put a hit on someone just because they feel they're in a position of power so we're just going to end someone's life like that's a it's kind of like a kind of a chess game to them well if you feel threatened you know then you then you uh you know you got to do what you got to do stay alive you know yeah i mean i don't know i mean i've never been in that damn position that's wild i can't imagine being in that position at a young age and so you you start becoming exposed to that pretty pretty quick into your bid yeah and was there a lot of i mean it was i know at the time you probably didn't recognize that but looking back with knowing what you know now was were you operating in a in a place of fear but it came out more like anger and bravado sometimes yes you know it's a mixture of fear and ego and you know uh yeah you know get some kind of mentality sometimes and and uh it's a mixture of all that i mean um you know like i said the dudes that i was kicking it with they would encourage me like to go to get my milling cabinet vocation yeah get my gt uh like uh one of my friends worked in the hobby shop uh they had hobby shops back then where like i i took million cabinets so i had an interest in woodworking and so the hobby shop had woodworking machines yeah and tools and you buy your own wood your own glue screws hinges all that [ __ ] you can make stuff out of wood and then sell it so i'd make jewelry boxes so you learned some trades trying to use your time wisely yeah so uh the older cat worked down there he goes hey bro why don't you just get a job in the hobby shop you're down here all the time anyways and you can't hold down a job so just get a job in the hobby shop sure and he got me a job down there and i worked down there for like four years you know do you attribute doing stuff like that to you ultimately getting out one day or was that just at the beginning and things kind of went off the rails to keep you in there a bit longer than 15 years um you know the reason i did so much time is politics really um which is a whole ball of wax in itself but sure um you know like getting into the hobby getting into my art tattooing and all that [ __ ] those are the kind of things that help me down the road to straighten up and and uh and act right you know how long do you think it took you to do straighten up and act right it took a long time you know yeah like even uh when we're a party and you know my friend and my silly uh dennis would say hey i stay clean by being dirty i was like what do you mean because if you got a pocket full of dope and you're walking down the hallway you know you're not gonna tell some copy [ __ ] you because you're dirty so in other words you're going to act right because you're dirty so i was programming i stayed out of trouble i didn't get any ride ups because you know i'd be walking out to the yard uh after coming off a [ __ ] three-week uh crank run and sleeping for three days and i got a pocket full of crank and another pocket full of 100 bills you know so i'd be like you know cops standing there and it tells you how you doing you say oh all right you know i mean you act right you know so oh i know that's how it was when i was in treatment i mean that's the closest thing i can have to like com comparison is like i can program wherever but you better believe i'm doing steroids and i'm drinking ghb and i'm smoking fat and all and shooting heroin because yeah people that work at the treatment center are pissing clean urine for me you know like you become resourceful and you manipulate a system and you stay a little bit under the radar until you can't you know that that's inevitably my story but yeah you know always it's like wherever i was at i was finessing i was manipulating because i was always very good at pinpointing what this person needs to get what i want and then i would just kind of expose that and that's in itself is very very selfish manipulative and self-centered but that's those were some of the things that i was very good at with addiction um and if you take it addiction plus you're a dope seller um you take inventory on everything around you everyone and everything right exactly right yeah yeah that's part of the deal you know yeah yeah you definitely know that's the name of the game to manipulate literally every there's always an end game for every every planet motive you have in your head it's actually a really shitty way to live at one point in time it was really the the only way i knew how to live i thought that's how you interact with people it's how you interact with the world not being like useful to people and just being there for them but like what can i what what use can i get out of them and all the [ __ ] that comes with that is for me it's like taking shortcuts lying a lot and that kind of you know me painting false facades of like who i am as a person kind of uh to to show people this this facade of like this is who i am and it's getting away from me that that's the type of [ __ ] that leads me to shooting dope yeah and at some at some point you get hopefully you get enough clarity to realize like if i keep focusing on the destination and i'm not ever involved or looking at this journey that i'm in that i rob myself of these experiences which ultimately is my life and you know you do enough of that and you get pretty miserable you know and you start hoping and and hoping for change and backing that up with some sort of action to kind of change the trajectory but it's a very organic and slow process and it doesn't happen overnight sure so a question i want to ask you too is like when you said that you were getting involved in trades and you had you know kind of your wilder phase as well where you you know partied and did your things but when did you really hone in and start looking at the core issues of why mitch was in the situation you know what what did that look like what was the trajectory of that because you've mentioned a couple times now that you had some mentors so sounds like you had some good people in your life but when did you take the onus on yourself to do the work well you know for us like you know the biker thing like we you know we don't shoot dope we always look at guys who shot dope as scumbags yeah almost come back even though you know we used probably more dope than some of them guys did um our thing was dope was for making money and having fun right and older guys always told me if you're not having fun and you're not making money and you're still [ __ ] with drugs and you're just a dope fiend just like everybody else and so i was in corcoran in 97 and i a guy i was doing some [ __ ] with got put in in the hole he got busted and and i noticed then man that all my friends were gone they were in low-level prisons they were paroled or they were dead some of them were dead and i was like dude all my friends are gone that's kind of the only way i could really explain it and uh you know guys were telling on people guys are i had to threaten guys to get paid um i said man [ __ ] this so i flushed a quarter ounce of speed down the toilet you know crank and i said [ __ ] it i'm done man i'm done with this [ __ ] really and uh you know it was like water off a duck's back man i was just all that drama all that stress just was gone you know and uh i mean it was a way alive for me on the street and up till 97 in prison so i mean it was it was a hard decision to make but it was the best decision i made you know to stop doing drugs and getting rid of that yeah you know just i'm over it not to buy use or sell drugs you know um just retiring from that i stayed clean until i got out totally and so i got to focus on my job i got to focus on my artwork i got to focus on um you know meeting guys on the yard that were cool uh that were positive [ __ ] um you know i remember when i was younger man uh you know we hit we had like an ounce of crank and and i and the next day my cellie goes hey you see that guy over there i go yeah um he goes that guy bought almost all that and he the guy looked like a [ __ ] square yeah you know and so i learned early on that not to judge a book by its cover just some because some guy wasn't a motorcycle outlaw or a gangster you know there were different kinds of gangsters man guys that are real gangsters about the business you can't even tell you know so sure um i started meeting guys and really focusing on on uh developing relationships with people that were about something man uh yeah you know guys that did things on the street they were you know and they were focused on positive [ __ ] in prison man and i uh from corcoran i went to uh i went to lancaster and i got a job in arts and corrections there um you know i'm an artist and uh and so uh i worked in arts and corrections for five years uh and i worked with the catholic greece there they started an honor yard and i was like well i'm not leaving the yard because i ran arts and corrections and i had access to thousands of dollars for the art supplies and um i got involved with teaching art class and uh doing art um how to paint also to do paintings and we donated them to the children's center of antelope valley so every year we would have an art sale and all the money went to the children's center of antelope valley it's pretty and uh yeah this is like this is later on i went there in 1998 so you're down for some time yeah it was a violent prison too i mean i had some [ __ ] going i was level four but yeah um that whole thing right there um i would i would get guys in the art class they would show some skill they want to go a little farther um so i would give them like paint brushes and i give them like four or five panels to paint on i tell them i want a couple paintings for the shop and then they can do some paintings to send home the shop had artwork coming in for the sale yeah and i was teaching myself and other guys um uh you know it's hard to turn loose a piece of artwork that you really like you do a painting you really like it um it's hard to get rid of it and just give it away so i was teaching myself and then whether guys were learning um to be selfless basically you know yes that's important it's a different different mindset different lifestyle man and you found a bit of passion and happiness through that no yeah i would say that that was a major turning point for me right there sure i mean it seems and i think it's good to go back and touch on this point but it seems like the core of uh what got you there what kept you in that that lifestyle was a was a lot of disconnection and misery right so like on the surface on the surface it looks fun it seems badass and i'm only saying this to paint some contacts because there's a lot of people watching that and probably watch your channel too and certainly watch ours that they're stuck in addicted to a criminal lifestyle addicted to drugs and they're addicted to the wrong parts about that and they they might not see hope and changing they might look at someone like you like damn mitch went through this he did this he had a turning point here it's it's it it's kind of miserable no living that way disconnection yeah well i can give you an example like um uh you know guys get hooked up with different things in prison i think hey all right i'm a part of something yeah and the next thing you know the same guys that they're a part of uh they're trying to kill him uh i remember back in the day on this guy was getting a package he told his homeboy say i'm gonna get an ounce of crank and uh like i don't know half ounce of heroin or some [ __ ] i'll break you guys off so he got his package he gave them guys an ounce of weed and he told them uh they're like where's the heroine at he said i didn't get as much as i thought so i just slammed it that's why i gave you the weed and they said all right we're gonna kill you they told them we're we're killing you so he was he locked up he went to another section of the prison and went to administrative segregation from michoud he was short to go home and so they sent him a kite uh and said hey we can't get to you so we're gonna we're gonna kill your family he had a daughter and a wife on the street and they had their address in the kite so the dude hung himself and killed himself you know so i went from that to arts and corrections i had everyone that worked there prior to me would trade the art supplies off for drugs and [ __ ] because you know i had ink all kinds of [ __ ] that was their hustle yeah so my boss the budget came around i said so how much money do we have and she goes uh ah she kind of hesitates she goes eighteen hundred dollars like all right so i spent it and then we had our very first art sale while i was working there and we made like five thousand bucks you know wow and she was all excited she goes man we've never made even two thousand dollars and it got all kinds of attention and all you know kudos for her yeah and then the budget came around i go so how much is our budget this year she goes eight thousand dollars spend it all right and she just gave me a car to blast to spend all of it on whatever i wanted and so the difference and then um you know i started teaching art class and all that [ __ ] a level four yard shut down at three o'clock they let us stay in that art room until five five o'clock and we go straight to dinner and then go home so we've been there all day painting with no staff they just basically told me and my co-worker hey you guys run this wow you know and that was in a level four prison so and for people who don't know that's as that's as is as like rough as it gets level four yeah uh level one's the lowest level four is the highest so mitch how did that make you feel to man it was just like night and day man it just it made me feel really good to have that trust and and not only that the guys that came into the class a lot of them had life without the possibility of parole they really didn't have much of a future to look to they got to come into class like you know two or three days a week they really look forward to that and they would tell me man this is great you know and and i had all different races in there um painting all day having a good time learning uh you know i have black dudes on a yard that were straight gang bangers going hey teacher what's up yeah that's my teacher telling their homeboys that's my teacher man you know what because i taught him how to paint um you know fantastic man it just uh that's a righteous feeling of course it is you're bringing people together and adding value to their lives man and in like such a like a just a miserable place i guess that's the best word i can come up with right now well and i think one of the one of the beautiful one of the really beautiful things in in life is to be able to see people that are struggling or disconnected and then be a part of seeing like the lights kind of come on and you see them come to life and enjoy something and appreciate something and to be there to hold that space is something that's special whether it's in a level four yard or just out in you know the regular world just being another human being connecting with somebody else and i think that's a that's beautiful that you touched on that's great absolutely and i'm grateful that you had that experience because i feel like that gave you purpose and meaning and it sounds like you you admired it and loved it and so you would show up with your best foot forward you know got a really uh you know super positive emotional uplift from that and mind you that was going on at a time when like i said all my friends were gone guys had you know same mentality i had grown up and all that [ __ ] but um it's also a time when the governor was saying uh if you have a life sentence you're never gonna get out i remember gray davis said if you got if you're in prison for murder uh you're gonna parole in a pine box that was in the la times so yeah um you would go to the parole board and they tale you got a bad attitude or they'd bring up some fake they started doing these fake psychological evaluations um you know they hired the whole crew of psychologists to do these evaluations all negative so i went from having positive positive positive positive to just the worst psych report you could ever have so during that time i just came to the grips with myself and several of us did that we're never gonna get out sure a major thing i want to touch on with your experience because obviously you still you're a free man now doing what you're doing now we're going to get to that as well um yeah but it didn't you experience a lot of rejection i'm sure so you said 15 to life so you started going to pearl and getting denied you spent 38 years in prison right right what was the total that took on you mentally uh for for all those times you got rejected what was that experience like for you internally you know in the beginning it was uh i was like well you know i'm a [ __ ] up so whatever but after a certain point um you know back in the day when all that madness was going on if you had two or three years clean with no ride ups yeah that was like a tremendous achievement really you know yo yeah now guys are going you know i went you know 10 15 years and no write-ups but um so after a while i'd go to board and they would bring up like something that i forgot about it was so old and they'd use it to deny your parole and and then you just realized man that um you know no matter what you do they're not gonna let you out and it's it's just uh it was very frustrating and very uh probably a part of your soul man i would imagine uh i knew some black dudes i was in youth authority with um one of them was a piroue one was a [ __ ] and you know like we're at odds as kids but now here we are as adults and they're in the same situation i was in and and we would just talk in the yard and and uh and it'd be like hey bro they just threw our lives away you know like so you truly became resigned to the fact that i'm dying here like that's it yeah like there was like there's a point there is no hope you're like there's no hope even maybe like this is yeah and uh you know i read that book poppy on when i was younger have you ever i saw the movie i didn't see the i didn't see the book i highly recommend the book yeah um but that's kind of the mentality i read that book when i was in youth authority it's one i never forgot um but uh you know because he talks a lot about his emotional state and his psychological state and and it's their survival thing and all that so sure um i just came to grips with the fact that i was gonna die in there and and um you know prison is like a little city okay so i had my art i had a few people i could kick it with talk to you whatever relate to i started going to n a meetings a lot meeting a lot of younger guys that were in and out had issues with drugs once i got down to level three and level two you get guys that are in and out of prison and and they would you know ask me about you know like hey man i [ __ ] relapsed and you know we talk and you know prison uh any meetings are a lot different they're a lot more serious guys take them a lot more serious um behind bars they take it more serious there's other things yeah behind bars any means they got a whole different meaning you know because um guys don't want to be known as somebody who's fake and [ __ ] you know sure um and you know guys got problems in there and that's what so a lot of guys would wake up they're young um realize they [ __ ] their lives up because of drugs and they would ask me questions they'd sit on the yard and talk with me and and i'd be like all right you know and i'd like one big youngster got out he started working for the inmate day labor crew he goes hey they want to make me a plumber's helper should i do it i go [ __ ] yeah cause i worked as a plumber in prison for seven years you know and then he's like hey man them guys say i can make like 25 bucks an hour's apprentice on the street i go yeah and he would ask me questions about plumbing and any parole and he wrote me he's like hey i'm an apprentice and you know sure so that was really cool [ __ ] it made me feel really good to see that you know because you're adding value to these people's lives man like yeah and that's a major thing because that's like some people there i know there's people that listen to this they may not even think that's a huge deal i think it's a huge deal because it takes something just like that to give encouragement to spark some massive change in someone's life and think about if you're changing that one guy that got the plumber apprenticeship and he's living a different lifestyle now that's affecting so many people his family his friends their family their friends that that's a major ripple effect you're doing that from inside prison it's community absolutely as well yeah and that's a major thing you know i just kind of came to grips so like hey i'm going to be in here this is it um i'm going to have my artwork and my music yeah long as i have my artwork and my music you're good i'm cool i'm good so let me ask you this so you you came completely resigned to the fact you're dying there but here we are sitting here and this is super important so this is super important to me especially like the internal experience um you got out how did that how did that end up happening so explain can you explain how that ended up happening and then your first thought of when it became real like what what what did that feel like what were you thinking 38 years uh well my road to getting out of prison actually um started by me getting into some trouble really uh yeah you know i was i would say i'm clean and sober you know but um really i was just sober um there's a difference i still had a [ __ ] shitty attitude i didn't have a clean attitude you know i i still had my stinking thinking [ __ ] going on and and um you know for me uh you know the the whole i never part of my criminality in my outlaw [ __ ] is i like to make money so um and that's part of the the whole drug addict drug dealer criminal mentalities you look for ways to make money look for ways to get over yeah and so uh somebody i was in lancaster with showed up at san quentin when i was finally at level two and he's like hey i got a way to smuggle tobacco in here and i thought about it and uh i said so why are you telling me he goes well you know you got people on the street and so we started smuggling tobacco and tobacco's illegal in prison sure and you know i i was like hey you know it's tobacco it's not drugs it's not you know whatever yeah we're still at league yeah whatever you told yourself to justify it you're like yeah we can do this yeah yeah and so i started making money and then i'm like you know what this isn't going to last forever so i want to get enough art supplies to last me 10 years so i started getting boxes of art supply i also figured out a way to manipulate the hobby order system and i was getting boxes of you know art supplies sent in you know cords of paint paint brushes that cost 150 bucks a piece i'm an artist you know that's what i do right so and these guys were in the hobby shop uh seeing me get these uh you know i was also getting wood woodworking tools all kinds of [ __ ] and these guys are just watching me you know they're like oh yeah yeah you know they smile nod you know but they're taking inventory on me of course and you know word gets around you know uh so bottom line is i got busted selling tobacco and i was selling tobacco for stamps and when i got busted i lost 1500 books of stamps uh partly to the goon squad and partly to these people that ratted on me um stealing my [ __ ] um they stole the uh major uh uh issue of my art supplies my cds only thing i walked out of sink i got put in the hole um they you know they found my cell phone i had a cell phone uh doing it you know i found you guys so i'm in the hole for five months and guys are on the main line i'm getting word you know they're talking smack about me and and so my counselor i go hey man how come i can't go back out to the north block and he said and he started laughing he goes because all them guys told on you man they don't want you back out there and so i go all right you know and i got the solid dad i got transferred um that's where i got valley fever and i got my property and that's when i noticed a lot of my [ __ ] was missing so the same guys that tell on you they go and rifle through your [ __ ] and take what they want something they would never do if you were there in person because you know that'd be an issue that's a coward [ __ ] sure uh and that's and i and i met someone on the yard that i known and he goes you know smiley the reason you got wrapped up into that [ __ ] is you didn't turn yourself over 100 to your higher power and you're sober but you're not clean and first i got mad at him and i s and then i thought you know what he's right and i went told me you're right bro thank you you know and that's when i decided and also that's when they had a federal lawsuit going on about medical because um i think they said two people every week died in prison due to lack of medical care like guys were dying because they couldn't get their insulin [ __ ] like that damn um so the federal courts created a three-judge panel to force california to reduce its prison population and uh jerry brown fought it finally he you know he had to comply so guys started to get out lifers you know life they were letting out all these low-level guys they were coming right back sure but i mean uh a bunch of laws let these and they would just come back come back so they started letting lifers out and i go you know what so i said i'm gonna get a year denial for this ride up i'm gonna get five year denial so i went to board in a year i got a five-year denial and i just decided hey you know what i'm gonna get the [ __ ] out of prison because you found something you saw some hope because of what was going on you knew what was going on people were getting out and i just decided you know [ __ ] trying to be comfortable in prison um i'd rather be uncomfortable out on the streets if that's the case you know and uh so i just decided you know that's what i'm gonna do and i started uh you know there were guys that were a little smarter than me that were into the uh uh you know i don't know what you'd call it but they're in the the programs you know the self-help yeah like some 12 steps yeah cga or whatever yeah but um yeah stuff like that sure and and they started learning [ __ ] and then teaching other guys [ __ ] and some of them would get found suitable and get out and i take notes and i go to all the programs and and then i got sent to uh cmc west and then they started uh they started a program on the east yard called long-term offender program and it was created by the board of prison terms which is now called the board of paroles parole hearing or some [ __ ] anyway um so they're like you know white dudes aren't supposed to go to cmc east yard but you you could be on the west yard okay but when you went to medical you had to go over to east and you're around them guys so i'm like you know oh you're on the east yard today for medical honor yeah yeah you see them dudes over there how come you didn't jump on them not clown them you know like you know if them white dudes over there no good when you go over there for medical why don't you jump on them i became in my you know as i got older i became kind of a smart ass you know like um because i know you know nobody's really that tough you know very few guys on the streets or in prison are really that tough uh they'll parrot uh policies that tough guys put out there like you know like so and so said this you know white dudes aren't supposed to do this or what dudes aren't supposed to do that so they started the long-term offender program on the east yard and i told them why dude i'm going to go over there for that program and my mentality was this program was created by the board of prison terms for guys going aboard so i'm thinking well they want us to take this program to learn what they're teaching so they can let you out sure right and so these guys like ah you're bullshitting bro you're not going over there i go yeah i am then i say i took the assessment to go to that program yeah second month later ah come on bro you know and and uh and then i go about a month later i go i'm packing my [ __ ] right now and uh i'm going over there right now yeah so if you got a [ __ ] problem with it just go in the tv room and handle it oh it's all good bro we know you're going over there for that program you know and then uh and then like six months later guys came over and they're like yeah as soon as you left the yard you were no good piece of [ __ ] you know so that's how prison is [ __ ] you know yeah to your face it's all good behind your back your scumbag so i went to the long-term offender program and uh i finished it a week later i went in front of the board of prison terms and i got found suitable for parole how did you feel when that happened man what was that like it's 38 years of prison i actually had the same parole board member at mike thompson had mr randy grounds really so i guess he liked you both huh uh you know um what he didn't say about that guy was that guy worked his way up to warden he was a warden when i was at soledad and i think he was a marine he used to train ultimate fighting uh you know so he was like a man's man kind of guy you know and my lawyer i said man that dude's an [ __ ] and she goes oh no he's a great guy and i'm like man everybody says that guy's a real prick you know and she said uh she goes he's just like you guys and i'm like what do you mean yeah and she told me about his background and she said as long as your victim isn't a woman a child or a cop you're all right just be straight with him and that's what you were yeah and it took me two hours and 15 minutes and um it was the easiest port hearing i ever had he actually listened to me um oh [ __ ] uh yeah it was it was overwhelming man i brought tears in my eyes of course it did and after the hearing he came out and he spoke with me and he said look uh i could have denied you parole because of that rider for the tobacco and i said i know and uh of course you know i had tears rolling down my eyes and sure and uh he goes don't ever take the easy way out again and i said i won't and uh which is a hard thing for me because like i said you know i like money you know that's how you operate it shortcuts manipulation do without you know when you're used to finding a way to make it illegally you know of course so he told hey look guys like you are our biggest asset and i was like wow what's you know i'm thinking what the hell does that mean and he goes you got a story to tell and i want you to tell it and whenever you're able to come back in these prisons i want you to come back in here and tell your story and so that's kind of what i do on youtube or do something like this man that's again we started off this episode talking about the importance of talking like that so the initial thing was you you had tears going down your eyes how long did it take you after you found suitable to get released uh 122 days were those the longest 122 days of your life or was it pretty easy going really you know because i you know i figured they were gonna let me out um i did all the right [ __ ] and you know what's funny is i took that program and i studied and i studied and i studied i was like man i still guys on the yard man i don't know if they're gonna let me out yeah i don't know you know and guys like dude you got it and so i went into the board hearing thinking you know they were gonna question me about the program and they didn't ask me one question about the program no [ __ ] but they did ask me questions that i could tell later on that they know that you got something from the program by the way you answer the questions you know well and i think also they people can see a change in you or me or anybody quicker than we can realize the change has occurred you know and and it's through your body language and your energy and the way that you sit in your demeanor so and we're also the worst and hardest critics of ourselves always at least i am speaking from my own experience so yeah you know yeah i think that's that's a beautiful story absolutely so what happened um what happened when you got out 38 years you're living in a different world yeah and you know like they called me in uh friday yeah i got a that's a long story but the guy i thought was my real dad um actually wrote the prison and said you know they call me hey this guy doesn't want any contact with you hmm you know i thought this guy was my natural father you know wasn't it he split when i was a year and a half old and [ __ ] anyways i'm like wow whatever so they they called me in told me that and they go you're going home next friday i'm like wow okay so that was on a friday and then sunday i'll go to mass and come back to the yard and had a [ __ ] riot on the yard your last you know seven or eight dudes got stabbed it was a race riot it was ugly um did you think you weren't gonna go home because of the riot i almost didn't go home because they locked everyone up that was on the yard every guys that were on the phone they put them in the hole uh fortunately um some lieutenant you know listen to my story i'm like hey dude i was just on the yard i'm going home uh you know i was i was actually on the way to the building and uh he talked i saw some of my building officers from when i was in the dorm living that's right and uh bottom line that you know me and two other guys this lieutenant came back and said who was with you and i said these two guys right here and so like this was like 11 o'clock in the in the morning and uh at four o'clock in the morning that night uh my old building officer vivian comes over and he goes hey smiley i go yeah he goes come here get them two guys right there let's go i'll go where are we going he goes you're going back your cell no i was like wow and we were the only guys that went back to ourselves so wow um yeah so uh that's that's kind of like the grace of god kind of thing you know absolutely you know i'm gonna steal this line from someone but you you it's uh you went into prison during a time with the brady bunch and you came out during a time with the kardashians man you came out to a different world right yeah how long did it take you to adjust to some [ __ ] like that you still adjusting uh uh you know life's all constant adjustment but um sure you know i pulled i pulled to uh 54th in in vermont in south central l.a and uh i'm like all right south central you know and uh you guys from the la area yeah we're we're out here right now we're quite the quite the piece of real estate over there he's missing yeah yeah yeah well yeah you know i went with sister teresa um actually i didn't have anywhere to go um i had to go to transitional housing i got a hold of this guy steve that i knew in prison he was at the francisco homes with that's ran by sister teresa catholic nun and he talked to her and got me a spot and uh i was just like you know i was like a professional spectator man it was fantastic you know wow there was this muslim cat there and uh black dude and after about three or four months he goes man i love the [ __ ] out of you and i'm like what's up he goes you know everyone's in there they got cell phones with earbuds and he goes all these dudes that come here all these white dudes are on their phone crying their family about oh i'm in south central and he goes from day one you did it moving dude you were out walking around making [ __ ] happen and and you ain't cried about it one time you know sure uh i used to walk around the block like 10 11 o'clock at night i'd walk laps around the neighborhood with my earbuds talking to my wife on the phone cause she lived up by san jose at the time and uh i just thought it was cool as [ __ ] you know yeah i'm sure you're you're stuck in a concrete jungle for longer than i've been alive man i'm sure it's nice to walk and uh see the stars [ __ ] like that yeah but i mean like uh you know like where i live is kind of across like i'll live right on the border of like black neighborhoods one way mexicans and el salvadorians the other way yeah there's not a lot of people that look like you there yeah but i mean you go up another block and saw chicanos and and uh like i worked with these kids like these black kids are like man that's the worst neighborhood in l.a everybody's fighting for real estate over there they go but you're white man you're all right they won't [ __ ] with you you're white you know yeah right so i would see all that stuff and just take it in like like uh like a movie man i i thought it was cool [ __ ] you know [ __ ] yeah i'm sure you did and so now you're living free one of the first times we talked man you told me you knew you're you're you're as free as uh talking about the motor the motorcycle clubs they're they're big on freedom so you have your freedom and that's what you like to do now you you hit the open road and you you advocate for prisoners and you i'm looking at your your background with your artwork you're tattooing that's what's going on yeah yeah you know i uh i moved up here to the mountains with my wife when i was in prison we got divorced because you know i didn't figure i was ever getting out and uh so we got remarried um you know we go to a little russian orthodox church up here met some really nice people her parents lived next door i got a motorcycle and i started my t-shirt business so we sell t-shirts artwork hats all that kind of [ __ ] and uh where do they find your t-shirts what's that so where can they find your work in your t-shirts where you're going to buy your merchandise heart intentions.com that's you out of you have to file taxes for that now man you're still learning new things right making some money yeah last couple days we uh we paid our our sales tax and then we got a phone call like you didn't file a tax return i'm like yeah we did i go my wife does that [ __ ] yeah she goes you didn't file a tax return on your sales tax like what is it separate from you know she's like yeah that's separate still learning new [ __ ] man i feel you so apparently i gotta listen to to close it out man party message again because your people hang on to what you say and some of them might be stuck in that lifestyle what was your parting advice to them just to have that shift in perspective in life uh that you've certainly had well you know like um you know my wife has a good job fortunately and she's like hey look you know you're i'll be 60 years old next month and she's like you did 38 years in prison um she wants me to focus on my art tattooing all that [ __ ] and i'm like you know uh i always had a job in prison um and like i said you know money's an issue i like to make money and and she's like look every now and then she has to remind me i'm like hey man i feel like i'm not doing enough and she's like look just relax i got you things are good yeah you know you don't have to [ __ ] sweat you know um so i'm starting to realize man like like i told her look i'm gonna trust you on this [ __ ] you know um she's my other half so um you know look everybody's got family friends of some kind um if you're young man and you're in the mix because you feel like uh people don't give a [ __ ] about you and that's you know there's a good chance that you're mistaken you know sometimes uh you're like one of my subs he's a mexican guy lives down in bakersfield he said when he grew up man his household there was no crying no crying aloud you know be a man tough guy you know so a lot of times uh youngsters feel like you know their parents don't give a [ __ ] about them and they find a love out in the street but really um there's people in your family nine times out of ten man that do love you who care about you and if you can express you know what you're thinking and what you're feeling to them they'll help you out um they'll have your back uh you know the guys that are doing dirt with you um you know go commit a crime and get busted with them and you'll find out how fast they got your back uh you know most of the time they're going to sell you out before you can sell them out sure that's how it is now i mean there's no you know that's the way it goes i mean there's and you know this place is like um uh you know like father greg boyle down there homeboy industries he helps he helps a youngsters man that in la they have that he'll help you find your way um five keys is a charter school out there in east l.a they gave me a job as a pit stop monitor when i got out um it's the biggest charter school in the country i think um they'll help you there's places that will help you especially in la man um if you if you're thinking that maybe you want to find a different way there's a lot of people man that will help you and it's okay to live that other way too because they don't know anything different they find that acceptance of people that's telling them that this is the only way and you you clearly learned the hard way you spent 38 years with that experience and now you're spending all this time living differently so you know coming from me i think that carries weight you look at homeboy industries man and you look at some of them guys that are there them guys aren't punks you know and they're old veteranos with tattoos all over them yeah they've been there done that and now they're wearing you know fancy clothes living a good life and they're not doing the dirt uh them guys are punks man they just realize that there's a better way to live and it's it's it's a lot easier it's not it's not it it will be difficult of course but it's a lot easier to live a clean life than it is to live a dirty life you know absolutely and it just starts with getting experience of you know doing the other way and seeing that it doesn't work and hopefully it doesn't take 38 people down the path that it's taking you and others and and you know down that road but if it does it does but it starts with you know like you said being vulnerable and asking for help the resources are there and there's people that care so don't be afraid to say hey man i need to learn how to work yeah i need to learn a job skill i need to finish my education i need some [ __ ] therapy to figure out why i'm so [ __ ] up in the head yes sure i can't fake my problems i need some help doing these things where can i get the help that's where it starts you know um it's important you ask yourself them questions you'll find the answers so thank you for that man i think that's going to resonate in a lot of people i appreciate you coming on i appreciate the relationship we're developing and connecting with shane after for off-air discussions and uh heart intentions channel i'm sure most of you guys are subscribed to it but it's for our people as well and thank you mitch yeah thank you so much man no um you guys are cool you know doing good [ __ ] we're going to keep getting better man we hope to work with you more in the future but you know on a personal level we'll be here at as much value as we can on friend of friend level man i appreciate your time and i'm sure a lot of people listening to this dude it's been a pleasure thank you thank you mitch we'll talk soon we'll let you know it's going to be released thank you guys for caring good night you guys have a good evening you

Channel: The Damage Done Podcast

Views: 14,991

Keywords: the damage done, damage done, damage done podcast, the damage done podcast, true crime stories, true crimes, criminals, prison, lock up, hard intentions, Mitch smiley, Mitch smiley hard intentions, prison stories, podcast, true crime podcast, outlaws, gangland, gangsters, crime stories, serial killers, murder, redemption, inspiration, sobriety, recovery, addiction, mental health, wes Watson, Mike Thompson, Michael Thompson interview, Michael Thompson, California prisons, true crime

Id: goAS5c3Mg_I

Length: 88min 16sec (5296 seconds)

Published: Wed May 19 2021