Growing Your Church - Part One - Masterclass Roundtable

[Music] part of mark I'll kick off with you tell us what does church growth look like many people would think it's more campuses and more services is is that correct it can be I think that's I think that's the fruit that's the result that's where you get at the end certainly I think it's something that you came for but I think there's an undergirding of other things that should be there you know I think and when I talk to guys or girls about growth I'd probably start with the concept of health healthy things grow so we can get it healthy and alive and and that sort of thing then it will eventually grow so and I think therefore it's probably more of an issue of defining health first and then sort of and then things will eventually grow so I'm it's great to have great big services and so on but I think if that's the aim then often many leaders including us you know we can get disappointed pretty quickly so so what does healthful I think probably means different things different people I think the the basics of health from my point of view are that it's got a clear vision and then not just the the visionary knows the vision but it's that the church community gets it and they own their I think it's outward looking so that it's not just self focus but it's connected to the community and and knows and begins to meet the needs of the community I think that it develops good healthy team so that people are engaged there's a higher level of cultural engagement and team engagement and probably the last thing that I can think of right now is that it's got a culture of multiplication so things that are within it multiply so connect groups are multiplying disciples are multiplying and eventually things like services and congregations begin to multiply and and that's when you start to see that external numbers growth but it really starts that really the call looks like a cell dividing so if you see disciples multiplying and like to soften each other and connectors multiplying you've probably down the line will begin to see a whole bunch of other things happen as well so when I go to a church to - visible' talk to the pastor that's often what I'm looking for first and then eventually there's other things begin to take place you have within your church and your team you've been able to reach a range of people from different cultures different countries how was that a strategy has that just happened naturally is that something you felt like God you know asked you to do like how did that come about silver water is a very multi-ethnic church you'd have to say it's like a snapshot of heaven yeah which I love and it does reflect the diversity in the geography around silver water what's awesome is Jesus is just so winning but every ethnic group and under the banner of Jesus everyone comes in with their uniqueness and their traditions and they unite and so it's amazing it's of water I don't feel any cultural divide amongst the groups they just unite under Jesus and what we've found is I remember we started with one African Patrick great guy and what happened in establishing and human leadership it put in front of the people or it it made it clear that we value diversity and putting them up in a leadership role and now there's this whole right wing of silver water in the seeding section on a Sunday morning which is overflowing with Africans so I would say that's a strategy in making sure that there's diversity across our worship team our platform team it shows that we value and are releasing and endorsing these groups and the increase comes that way even things are like making sure we have translation available to bridge the language divide we've seen a big influx of Syrians in a recent season and we've made sure that we've got Arabic translation available and what we're doing is not just translating language we're actually translating culture so in the translation throughout the service because the Syrians are coming from a more subdued traditional worship expression so and ac3 is so dynamic loud and you know passionate and so our translator is actually translating the culture as well this is what's happening is the meeting leader exhorts and this is why we are lifting our hair and said totally I'm packaging it for the people which is really helpful because then it just disarms any apprehension they might have and it's awesome in our salvation altar calls in the recent season sometimes half the altar is filled with Syrians half is filled with Persians and there's translation happening on both sides and I feel like this is such a sacred moment my total heart fest is amazing now Cathy you oversee a whole region or have a lot of input into a whole separate region plus of course c3 right what are some of the keys and strategies do you think that have been successful in your journey of church growth well we've planted a lot of churches overseas in quite difficult nations which to begin with wasn't even in our mind it just the Lord really plays something on Richard yeah and so Richard just went to see and then one thing after another happened and Richard has always believed that we need to plant churches where we already have a relationship so we've planted many churches in many different nations but prior to that has been many many years of relationship and some of the keys are understanding that we have a wonderful we have wonderful core values in c3 and so to transport that into other nations is actually just such a wonderful opportunity I totally believe that c3 just has this breath and life about it and so all of the nations of the world really need it they need Jesus and so we've just kind of gone wherever the Lord has taken us to but it's understanding the context of where we are and not offending but also giving people the opportunity to rise in a more culturally relevant and brighter expression perhaps of the kingdom one of the greatest problems that not we face but the church planters face is the biggest obstacle of all is persecution for them and so that's been something we've really had to navigate so they kind of experience persecution on several levels one is perhaps from a majority religion around them there's an obvious persecution another is from traditional churches that feel very threatened by something new and so that's caused a lot of opposition and also bureaucratic difficulties so in every nation there's many many rules around what Christians can and can't do and so that's been quite difficult and the other thing that's actually we've noticed is that often when somebody becomes a believer in those in those nations they lose their entire family so you've got persecution on many levels but I will say that they are amazing like they are unbelievable their resilience like the resilience of the church planters because we need to remember it's not just them it's their little children and it's their families many of them have the opportunity to leave but decide to stay and so they've got this this incredible resilience I just look at them and I think oh my goodness and the other thing I would say they're very they adapt easily so one beautiful church which we planted about three years ago has had enormous growth and it's in a very difficult region with a lot of opposition and so every time somebody becomes a Christian they have forced to leave their family so the little church itself has mean nearly all of their young adults living at the church with the pastor and their family which is not something we would face them so I don't have all of the young adults living at my house from our church and so they adapt so well they really I look at them and I think oh my goodness you are mighty and so they grow so rapidly and it's just such a delight and when there's a salvation like in those places we all rejoice even back at Ryde when we know we really rejoice and it's just Oh our church is totally on board with all of that like we just really feel that sale call as a church that so called it's what we really love to do and so our hearts are knitted with theirs how do you how do you support them any encourage the pastors and and I mean from over here well there's a couple of things that work really well one is that which it travels they're often in order to mentor them and help them along they love any connection at all that the other thing is we sometimes send teams over there which makes a huge difference when an ordinary member in the church comes back and says I know this pastor and that Pastor and their hearts are just so knitted and the other thing is that when we're able to we bring those pastors to ride and it gives them the opportunity to watch because sometimes it's hard to explain what what the possibilities are for them but when they can actually see it on an ordinary Sunday they often go off got it and so that's perhaps our best way but Richard does much traveling backwards and forwards to mentor and support and encourage and yeah do you do you find any of that kind of dynamic at work at the water or people learn yeah actually there's a number of themes that I'm picking up on Kathy's articulating and there's a lot of likeness so even so local Australian Church but with the multi-ethnic groups of people and in the far corners of the earth things like the opposition and the religious opposition amongst the Syrians there's been a pool I mean there's a direct opposition to Pentecostal churches that that so they find themselves in decision-making points the the importance should be culturally sensitive is another thing definitely not to be dismissive of values which go from generation to generation to generation but to enlarge our hearts to embrace those details and the gift of hospitality to build the local church I feel that civil water is uniquely blessed in the richness because the value of hospitality and the value of family that those ethnic groups bring to the church there's such a special sense of love in that place because of that so there's a lot of likeness both globally and locally yeah I'm sure heard the phrase everything rises and falls on leadership yep how do you think that relates to church growth how much do you think it is you know on on the leader and where they are in their personal walking know things have got going on in their own door yeah I think I definitely think that the growth of the leader affects the growth of the church so we've all heard I'm assuming that you can have a lead on your leadership I think the personal growth of that leader can be a lid on the growth of the church and yeah so yes I think it's absolutely connected and for people that are watching who are leaders how can they be aware or kind of do it a self-awareness check I guess I'm sure mark you'll have the proper term for it you know what what could be their possible blind spots their strengths opportunities for growth how do how do you keep going as a way to use that is that what you're asking me well I think I mean the obvious ones are your devotional life has to be of utmost importance you know the word praying listening to the Holy Spirit being a continual donor is is very important not thinking that you know it all being teachable being humble listening to others having people speak into your life all of those things I think one thing to remember when you're leading is that people can't follow where you can't lead and so you have to always be in that position of thinking I can do this in Jesus because unless I go there they can't come with me and so that I think it's an incredible opportunity it's such an opportunity to move into greater things knowing that people willingly follow but they can't get there if you can't go there and I think the the authenticity of the leader is important to I think that people often think that you live this perfect life and then if people can't follow that though because there's got their own struggles and they're thinking well that's of no value to me because you've got the great the perfect life so I think a level or a good you know good level of authenticity and even describing your own trial of faith because there's only the trial of faith that grows people anyway because God grows everybody the exact same way there's no exceptions whether you're a leader or not later we'll have you everyone goes through a trial of faith and then that expands your your walk with God and your capacity and everything else and so I think sharing sharing your own journey of that process I think super important but it but no like Mel said and Kathy is staying on that journey yeah because she it's not like you arrived I mean one day I'd like to arrive and be good and one day we will I think we are going to right but in the meantime we're all on that journey and we're not what I've seen people stop growing is when they've got off purely is one thing that got off the path and I just keep saying people stay on the path yeah because there's no other path except a very destructive one in other things that you've been able to do to help pastors that have I hope so I've waited from the path yeah I mean when I see signs of the wandering you know social medias sometimes valuable because I sometimes I can hear a sound in the words in which they tone it and I'm like oh I don't feel right so much so maybe a bit of contact or because connection helps I think you know the Bible talks about you know warn those who you know I don't you know that's a very big word warned but but I think you can warn with grace and love and mercy and because there's often a heart that's been disaffected somewhere along the line whether towards God or the church that begins to wander so I think if you can repair that maybe gets them back on the track a bit so I think from a younger person looking at people I passed the mark and oh you guys here is it's incredible the value of example and I think if we'd related back to church growth I think a growing church is full of growing people I think the beauty of a young person having those examples where you can actually you know if you do for yourself kind of swaying in the breeze sometimes and you can kind of recenter on you know people who have already done the distance and I think an encouragement to the older generation would be actually your example is more valuable than you know and actually it does keep us young guys centered and you know people to look to you know how Paul said been following me as I follow the example of Christ I think that's really really important it's funny you talk about the example because I was just thinking about how our children and parenting and pastoring is so similar is that they actually copy what we do not what we say and as leaders but we have authority in the things that we do not what we say and when we're leading leaders as well it's what we do that we have authority in and sometimes I watch a worship leader and they're trying to bring a breakthrough and they'll say something like kilometers left our voice they say it but they don't do it and then there's a ceiling on the meeting people don't follow them but if they only lifted and exhorted themself then the breakthrough would come and the people would follow them there so the power of doing not just saying yes amazing awesome that's a good point a lot of people think that you know church growth is it's all about the senior minister and it's their responsibility and you know what what can fall interior's do to help yeah great I think one of the key words is responsibility and an ownership and I feel like if I look at my generation there's a lot of spectators and not many participators and I think that's that is an issue because I think ownership I think it does two things it one it silences the inner voice of criticism I think often women spectating it's easy to criticize it's easy to be cynical I think as soon as we take ownership if we were to be would be critical of ourselves as I find it but also what it does that I think ownership breeds creativity because you because it's yours you care for it and therefore you want it not only do you see the problems and I think there's nothing wrong with seeing issues but when you take an ownership you see solutions as well yeah I think ownership really breeds problem solvers and I think that's probably what we need the most of is we have a lot of problem givers no money problem solvers you know and I think probably the other side of the coin is that we need to probably change our perception that I'm not attending church I am the church I think when we do that you know we really our whole mentality changes and safe the church is struggling I'm struggling the church is thriving I'm thriving and that's such an important thing and I think probably part of that as well is that we're actually champions of the vision and so wherever we go on it's not just it takes out of Sunday so on Monday morning I'm the church on the Tuesday when I go to school I'm the church when I go to work on a Wednesday I am the church and I'm representing God I'm representing my church I'm representing my pastors and I think the beautiful image of it in scriptures when Moses is on the hill and Joshua's in the valley and you got Erin on her either side and that's a beautiful picture of the team working it's not just the leader it's not just the volunteers it's not just the team members and the staff but they're all actually playing a part together can I ask Mitch because one of my points of concern sometime is how to mobilize the next generation out of the place of consideration and spectating into mobility and bine and sacrifice in particular have you had any breakthroughs or thoughts as a leader in that generation I think it's case-by-case I think young people today or Millennials even a very they need a lot of permission I found that they're very reluctant to take initiative and so I know I think there's a few factors in there I think there's a there's a generational factor there's a family breakdown factor across the generation that has caused a lot of young people to be timid and I think as leaders the importance of us showing encouragement and unconditional love and and just giving people permission not only to succeed but to fail I long people are stuck in this weird place of stagnancy out of fear you know and you see them Paul encouraging Timothy in that sort of generational model where he says how you've not been given a spirit of fear or timidity but power and in that encouragement to the younger generation is really important can I ask one more question here back just about the aunt the absence of mothers and fathers and the changing of the family shape and raising a generation that really needs the spirit of adoption and a lot of love can you talk a bit about your insight into that coming around the next generation sure I think young people have lost a lot of identity I think that what you're alluding to there is young people are very confused a lot of confusion there's a lot of prevailing voices and because of the lack of the family unit and the lack of the voice of the father and the voice of the of the mother it's actually caused a lot of murky waters around our generations identity I think we're probably all experienced I know I have when when there's a kind of a double mindedness in who we are there's a apathy about what we do and I think our ability and that's why the church's voice is so important because and the generation that have gone before us is their voice because it's actually stabilizing what truth is and it's bringing a sense of clarity into the whose murky waters and really empowers young people

Channel: C3 TV

Views: 2,763

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Keywords: Phil Pringle, Christian, C3TV, Jesus, Worship, Masterclass Roundtable, Masterclass, Leadership, Church

Id: ctSWGZ2qlVM

Length: 21min 26sec (1286 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 05 2018