>> We have such a
conversation to have today and three remarkable women to
do it with, as you can see. Grabbing back, women
in the age of Trump. And we're going to
be looking at some of the key questions regarding
the Trump presidency, like, how? What happened? What's continuing to happen? What will happen? I think that enough
will keep us going. We're going to look
at the contrast between a public
belittling and a private and technologically fueled
uprising and we're going to try to work out if any of those
are in any way linked. My name is Julia Beard
[assumed spelling]. I write and do various
things and one of the things I do do is go
back and forth to the States where I've tapped into
the struggles of Americans around the Trump presidency. I was at, as I was
telling Francesca before, I was at the meeting where -- the New York Times
editorial meeting, where they grilled Donald Trump
about his policies for an hour. I was sitting next to him
and I was trying to work out the hair and the eyes. No one ever talks
about the eyes actually because they're kind
of pure white. He handed out ratings --
he handed out his ratings and his audience views, he talked about how well
he did on the Apprentice. Wasn't that strong
on a lot of policy. And when I came back to New York
the next time just a few months later so many people I knew were
heavily medicated and my friends who were therapists
were fully booked out, including with couples therapy,
which I thought was fascinating if people disagreed on this. But who we're hearing from
today are these three women, these three strong
voices in America. And Francesca Donna
has been fantastic, from the New York Times, is
a director of what's called "The Gender Initiative." Which was in the pipeline for
quite some time and it aims to elevate the views, the
diverse views of diverse groups of women in the newsroom and through all the various
platforms the New York Times operates on, but it came
out, it launched just as the Harvey Weinstein
story was breaking, which was incredibly fortuitous, and she's been very very
busy ever since then. Sophia Nelson is a long
term moderate republican, as we've discussed before. Someone who wrestles
with being a republican. She's written a book. Her latest book, E Pluribus ONE,
about what the founding fathers and their vision for
a united America. How that was fraught
at the time, indeed remains fraught now. And she's also a best seller
author, a journalist based in DC who is a corporate diversity
champion award winner, a global motivational speaker. Fran Leibowitz is a patron
saint of all nocturnal people, of the literary minded and
she says of the slothful. Though I'm yet to be
entirely convinced as she's flown all
this way to talk to us about the patron saint
of people who believe that words and ideas matter. She's also the author of the
bestselling essay collections, Metro Politian Life
and Social Studies. And I would recommend
to all of you, if you have not seen
the documentary that Martin Scorsese
did of her life in 2010, where he basically placed the
microphone in front of you, look it up, it is
really fantastic. So, everyone, if we can please
just welcome these three women. [ Applause ] I want to start first of
all by asking each of you where you were at the moment
you discovered Donald Trump was going to be the president
of the United States and what was running through
your mind at that moment. Francesca? >> Hi. >> Hi. >> First of all, great question. So, it's always very interesting
to be in a newsroom actually when these things are happening,
because you get to say that you're at work, so you're
sort of processing things in a slightly different way, which is what's the front page
going to look like tomorrow, what's the story going to
be, what's the headline, what photograph are
we going to choose. But I think along with so many
people we were quite surprised. The start of the day we
had a certain opinion about what the front page was
going to look like 24 hours from now and that was certainly
reflected in our news meeting, which we have around
9:30 in the morning. And I do know that over the
course of the day we were so certain about what was going
to happen that we even sort of set a front page with a different person
featured in the photo. >> We all remember it, we remember the needle
with [inaudible]. >> Yes, so I think that was sort
of a radical switch that we had to make in our heads and
realise this is what's going on, but at that the same time being in a newsroom you're covering
it, you're doing a job, you got to get the story
and we had to get it fast. And, so, to me it was sort of,
wow, thesis happening and a lot of surprise, but also, we've
got to get the job done. So it was a lot of sort
of manic get this done. >> Right. >> And a lot of, you know,
there's so much preparation work that goes into things and you
sort of prewrite a whole lot of stories when you think
something is a sure thing and then the sure thing
is not a sure thing. And then you change. And that was a busy busy
day as you can imagine. >> What about you, Sophia? >> I'm going to answer
the question in two ways. I was on air on Hardball and we
were watching the returns come in and it became apparent
that there was a problem. And depending on what
perspective you were coming from, I by the way
grew up with Kelly and Conway who's Trump
was his campaign manager and we're 12 days
apart in age actually, so I know her quite well. So, I was watching and I
begin to text with some people in the Clinton campaign
and they said, "Don't worry, we're
going to hold. It's Michigan and
Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Those are the firewall." Well, when Pennsylvania fell I
said, "What are you doing now?" Michigan and Wisconsin. Well, we all know what happened. So, but when I knew Donald Trump
was going to win the election, happened in September of 2016,
I live in Virginia and I live on the border between West
Virginia and Virginia, so it's more rural out
near Dulles Airport if you've ever been
to the States. And I was coming back
from a conference. I have a convertible, I'm
driving with the top down, it's autumn, it's good and
I'm taking the back routes, which is more rural and I
see nothing but Trump signs in every state I go through
and I said, "Oh, my goodness, Trump's going to
win this election." And I remember going home and
telling my friends and family, they were like, "You're
stupid, Sophia, he's not going to
win the election." I'm like, you didn't' see
what I saw through parts of Pennsylvania, southern New
Jersey, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia they
were big Trump signs. They weren't little,
they were big. And I thought, something's
-- we're missing something, we're disconnected, he's
tapped into something. So, I knew this was
not going to go in the right direction
in September. So, that's my experience on it. >> Fran, and in New
York, I remember in 2008 when Obama was -- I was
there when he was elected and there was dancing
in the streets. I went up to Harlem and
there was such a feeling of effervescent hope and joy. How was it when Trump
was elected? >> Less joy. And I wasn't in Harlem, but
a lot less joy in Harlem. Every presidential election, the
night, I go to a friend's house, you know, we watch it
on TV, we have dinner, so there have been
good ones and bad ones. There were two Obama good ones, there were two George
Bush, very bad ones. But the day of this
election the whole day I was in a fantastic news
and this is something that happens maybe
once a decade. >> Was there a reason for it? >> Yes, I thought,
it's over, you know. It was a year. I thought, it's over
and we're not going to see Trump anymore, you know. And at the time I lived in
SoHo and I was meeting a friend of mine who lived
in the village, we vote in the same place. We met, we voted,
we went to lunch. The streets were -- this is, you
know, like 1 in the afternoon of the day, the streets are
filled with happy people. We're already happy,
because it's over. And because we do actually
think this neighbourhood this is the world. We go to lunch, everyone's
in a good mood. As I'm walking, actually,
up West Broadway, there's a restaurant on the
other side of the street which I don't like, I never go
to, but which I knew actually that Harvey Weinstein was
having an after party there, a victory party for Clinton,
after the big party for, you know, the people who
don't give $10 million to Hilary Clinton, that
was at the Javits Centre. And I was not invited to
this party, but I thought, I'm going to crash this party. Because I want to
go to this party. And, so, I see the guys from the
restaurant putting these velvet ropes out. This is 1 in the afternoon. So, the waiter's putting
the ropes out and I thought, I wonder if these guys recognise
me, so I walk on that side and one of them goes, "Ms.
Leibowitz, are you coming to the party afterwards?" I said, "Yes, I am." So, I went lunch. Everyone in the street
was saying -- in fact, I ran into a friend of
mine who used to be the editor of Time Magazine and he had,
you know, his phone and he goes, he's telling me all his sources. You know, these guys they
have all these sources, the sources are all wrong. Oh, she's going to have
400 million electro votes. I go to my friend's house. Everybody was in
a fantastic mood. Everybody. And there was champagne. This is before dinner,
everybody's drinking champagne, everyone's having
a fantastic time. The TV was on in the
kitchen, but we were eating in the dining room,
the kitchen -- but you had to go in the
kitchen and get the food. So, I'm in the kitchen,
everyone's fantastic time, I go out -- I have to
prefaces this by saying, in case I already have
not spoken long enough, that there are three
days of my life where I remember every second. Okay? So, I've already
edited this down, if it seems like it's been long. And I'm going to spare
you the other two days, but I remember every
second of the day of the Kennedy assassination,
okay, and I was 13 years old, and I can tell you
what I was wearing. I will not. I remember every
second of September 11. And I remember every
second of this night and I will never forget it. To me it was as traumatic
as those other two days. And at a certain point I go into
the kitchen to get some food and they have the map, you
know, the blue and red map up and I looked and I
said, "What's that?" And I think, oh, it's too early. So, I go back and eat, I
come back out, I look at it. Well, they did something. I don't know what TV network
this was, they're not supposed to call a state before
every poll is closed across the country. They're not supposed to do
that, but they were doing it. So, as soon as I start
looking at it a guy who's at dinner comes in, he sits
down and this pall falls. Everyone's looking. And at a certain point when
it became like apparent, and I'm sure apparent
is the right word, but there was a high chance
-- this friend of mine, a very distinguished eminent
presence in New York said, "I'm going home, I have to
go home and take drugs." So, not only is this a
distinguished man, he's also, you know, a man of
a certain age. What do you mean take drugs. He said -- I said, you
know, 60 years of this job. He goes, "I can't take this." And he left. When I left later, you know, the streets in these
neighbourhoods are always full of people. On a regular Tuesday night at 3 in the morning the
streets were empty. Empty. It was just
like the night of September 11,
exactly like that. The streets were empty,
you know, and I went home and I have not recovered at all. By the way, not in one
bit have I changed, my feelings have not changed. I haven't gotten used to it, you
know, I have not adapted to it, I'm not as flexible
as you might imagine. And I'm not adapting to it. >> Did you feel it
as a physical shock? Like a lot of people
seemed to -- >> I was completely in shock. Also, I spent an entire year,
the year of the campaign, I spent the entire year going
around the country saying to people, "don't worry there's
zero chance he could win. Zero." You know. And the truth is that, you
know, people always say, "New Yorkers are so provincial." And I always say, "Yeah,
but it's New York." So, it's you who
are a provincial, we're not provincial, we just
don't pay attention to you. And there's why. Okay? And truthfully I don't
care what these people want. I know you're not allowed
to say that, you know, but when people say, you know -- I tell you what I was really
sick of, I was really sick of men telling me what
Hillary Clinton did wrong. I was super sick of that. And as they tell you and I kept
saying to people, you know, Trump didn't win because
he did something right, Trump won because he
did something wrong. So, it's a crazy thing to say. But I was also very
angry at Bernie Sanders, who I hated from the beginning. I know that's against
the law, you know. I mean, the year before
the election, you know, whenever I would say I would
hate Bernie Sanders I would get booed by my own audience,
people who paid to see me. They would boo me. You know. And I like
think to myself, you know, I understand how a college
student might be fooled by this guy, you know,
you're on college, he says college should
be free, you love him. You know, I mean, you know,
if someone say, you know, apartments in Manhattan should
be free, I'm voting for you. But I also think college should
be free, by the way, you know, but what free means
is we pay for it. Which is fine, use
my money for that. Don't give it all to
Bill Gates, you know. I felt Sanders really demonised
her, you know, Bernie Sanders. And also, you know, what
I would say about him was, what kind of person leaves
New York when they're 18? Okay. >> I think it's the
wrong direction, right. >> That's the wrong direction. Okay, so, that's who he was. And when people, especially
young women, you know, would say to me, "But I don't like Hillary Clinton,
I don't like her." I would say, "So what." Don't worry, she's
not going to call you. >> Right. >> You don't have to
like the president. >> Right. >> You have to like
your friends, that's it. >> What did you attribute
that to, the fact that the debate became
reduced to her likeability, because a lot of democrats
afterwards were saying, "We just should not have
put her up as a candidate." There was this kind of sober
realism that unfair or not and deeply sexist or not, that that made the
democrats vulnerable. >> That is because, you know, people feel they should
like the president. You know, that's one of
the reasons Bush won. You know, because people
didn't like John Kerry. You know. And I would
say to people, you know, I had a doorman who
voted for George Bush. And I said, "What are
you talking about, you're in a union? How could you vote for
George Bush, you know?" He goes, "But I don't
like John Kerry." And I thought, you
know, I know John Kerry, I don't like him either, but
don't worry about it, Greg, you're not going
to hear from him. You know, I mean, so that,
you know, we think -- when I say we I mean
them, I mean Americans. They think that the
president should be charming, that he should like
the president, like he's an entertainment
figure. You know, which is why when
Oprah Winfrey makes a speech that everyone likes
everyone says, "Oprah Winfrey should
be the president." You know. and my feeling when that happened was I really
hope Oprah Winfrey does not want to be the president,
because there's no question that she could be the president, because she's the most
popular person in the country. The truth is, the
most popular person in the country's
always an entertainer. You know, most popular person in the country used
to be Elvis Presley. Doesn't mean he'd
be a good president. >> Sophia, if I can come
back to you on a question of, it was presented as not just
shock and such a surprise, and there's questions about
what the media got wrong and how polling went wrong, which are fairly serious
analytical questions. But you believe in some ways
it was a natural trajectory, but Trump is understandable. Can you explain that? >> Well, you got to go back 25
years of the Republican Party, starting with Ronald Reagan,
then father Bush and then W, and then ultimately
you get Donald Trump. And the republican
party since -- take the 1960 election is
where the sea change happens where John F. Kennedy
calls Coretta Scott King and he gets the first time
of the democrat the majority of black votes, although Nixon
was still getting 40 some % of black voters. But as each republican
election went past Jerry, Ford and onto Reagan,
that black vote and colour vote dropped
significantly for the republican party so
that Donald Trump would be the natural growth out of this
didn't' surprise me and people of colour at all in America,
because, let's face it, he ran very openly and
said things that a lot of people were thinking. Demographics is really
at the core of what happened in
the 2016 election. In any culture in
civilisation on earth, dating back to the
Garden of Eden, whenever there is a demographic
shift, you saw it with Brexit, you're seeing nationalism
occurs. The majority in America is
Caucasian, there's a backlash. Now, Van Jones called
it white lash. I don't' know if you heard that. and I know that may be offensive
to some, but step out the box and understand that
whether it's immigration, whether it's black lives matter, people of colour,
there's a fear. I hear this where I live
in America all the time where the people who have
guns, confederate flags -- we just had a big
debate in America over keeping confederate statues and honouring them
and flags and guns. There is a big segment in
my country that does not like the direction of women,
the way women are going, the way people of
colour are going, the way that things are going. And there's fear, it's real
palpable fear our jobs have been lost. Our country is going, our
country -- you like those words. I want my country back. That's a very common refrain when you get below
the Mason Dixon Line. And the Rustbelt, which is
where Trump did very well. So it's a lot more
complicated than just to say we didn't like Hillary. Hillary had 25 years of
public life that qualified her in every way to be president
of the United States. But her likeability
factor was a problem from the moment she
became first lady. They just didn't know how
to deal with a strong, smart, self-assured woman. She should be president based
on qualifications alone. There's nobody that was
more qualified than her, but Trump won I believe
because two things, demographics and the fear of a woman --
white males, I want to be polite when I say this, white
men were not having it. It was mad enough that we just
had this black man be president for 8 years. Let me just go on and say it. It was bad enough. Now we're going to have a
woman too, I don't think so. So there was a -- the
media played a roll. I thought the way she
was treated was horrific. We never would treat a man
the way we treated her. Whether you like her or
not or wanted to vote for her is not the issue. So, it's demographics one. And then the second part of this in America is Trump is
a reality TV figure. And unfortunately we like that. We like the House
Wives of Atlanta. I don't know if you
know about them here. We like that kind of trash. We like that he'll something -- the media loved him because
ratings went through the roof, and the media knew if he became
president ratings would go through the roof. And guess what, they have. We talk about him non-stop
24 hours a day in America. We can't even keep up
with our own news cycle. That's my opinion. >> But you talked
about demographics. How do you -- [ Applause ] What are we to make of the fact
that white women voted for him? >> You know, I'm not a white
woman, I'm a woman of colour. 90% of black women voted
for Hillary Clinton. 53% of white women
voted for Donald Trump. It tells a story -- we were
talking about this behind and I want to know what
you think about this, that the gender discrimination,
colorism, whatever within gender, white
women see things one way, women of colour another. Nowhere was that more stark
than in the election of 2016, but I think that those
white women voted for their husband's
economic interest. You know what I mean
when I say that? They're married, you
got to break it down. Look, they judged Roy Moore,
a child molester of girls, women of faith holding press
conferences defending this guy. We got a long way
to go as women. We do. [ Applause ] >> Can I say -- >> Help us to understand
that vote. Yes. >> Can I say a few things about
the white women, which I think, you know, after all this
happened the Times was asking questions, sort of what -- how can we unpack that for our
readers, because it felt -- it felt a bit surprising to us. And we have a wonderful
journalist at the time whose name
was Susanne Charron, she went out through the country
and really tried to find a lot of white women who
had voted for Trump and really understand what
it was and what were some of the things that came up. So, the first thing is so
clearly we've all been kind of circling around, which is,
I didn't want to vote for her. So that was some
part of the reason. But there were also
these other things, which were my religious freedom, my religious ability
to express myself. That might be impinged. Concerns about abortion,
concerns about healthcare, which people felt was
just too expensive. And I think also we really can't
forget the fact there was an opening on the Supreme
Court at that time and whether Hillary
Clinton filled it or Donald Trump filled it, was
really really material was going to have massive impact
on the country and the direction
that things took. So, and I think the economy was
also a big thing and this sort of idea of, you know, if
you just look at the slogan that Trump had, Make
America Great Again. This idea of sort of bringing
it back to a time of -- not quite sure what time it
was that people wanted -- >> 1953. >> bring it back to. >> That was the dream. Vote for me it will
be 1953 again. >> Yeah. >> Giuliani did the
same thing when he ran for mayor the first time. >> But it was never
labelled as such. There was sort of this idea
of going back to this sort of comfort place that
things felt sort of safe and good again, but
for who, right? So, I don't know, I think sort
of really trying to unpack and understand those
stories and really sort of get inside their heads and say< "Why was this
important to you?" >> But look at what's happened
post Trump's presidency the last year. Race in America has
never -- I'm too -- I'm not old enough to remember
to civil rights movement, but I can't believe
what I've seen happen at UVA in Charlottesville. Young white men, these aren't
old bitter white men carrying flags and confederacy
things, these are young men in their 20s marching
with torches, shouting anti-Semitic things
in the open, with Nazi-ism and these are not
fringe crazy guys. These are your boy next door, they go to college,
they're educated. There's something
really ugly afoot. >> They're stupid. >> I'm sorry. >> Stupid, stupid. Trump's appeal is he's stupid. And you -- I mean I agree with
you about Reagan, but to me, you know, it's that
Reagan was a template for the stupid president. Before Reagan there was no idea
the president could be stupid. We hated Nixon, but no
one thought he was stupid, we just thought he was evil. You know, until Reagan
it never occurred to us the president
could also be stupid. So, you have Reagan,
the stupid president, you have George W. Bush,
the even dumber president. And you have Sarah Palin,
very important, Donald Trump. So, it got to the point
where obviously, you know, the president can't be stupid. You know, it makes people
feel good, you know. Because most people also stupid. And, you know, whenever people
say, you know, about, you know, Trump is crazy, I say,
"He's a little crazy." You know, but mostly he's dumb. And his appeal, I
think his appeal, was almost entirely racist. I watched those rallies, his campaign rallies
and I am old enough. And they reminded me exactly
of George Wallace rallies. And I kept saying to
people, "George Wallace ran for the presidency on
the segregation ticket. Segregation now,
segregation forever. And the rallies were
exactly the same. They were Klan rallies. You know? So, I believe the
people who voted for Trump, who still like him, even though
he did not reopen the coal mines, even though they're never
going to get reopen, you know, they're not going to be
working on the Ford line for $30 an hour ever
again and they know it. It's enough for them that they
can express their bigotry. That is more important to
them than their own lives. >> The sad thing is though,
they don't see it that way. Again, I live in Virginia. Northern Virginia's not the same
as below Richmond, Virginia, but out west where I am, which is on the West
Virginia border it is a lot of what you said. And they do not see this
as a race issue at all. You can talk about it until
you're blue in the face, that will not be conceded. They really believe is their
institutions are under attack, their country is under attack. And I try to explain to
people the very notion that you would say that
something is yours, that it belongs to you and not
to everyone else in America is in and of itself pretty racist. And if you can't figure that
out I really can't help you. >> But that's just as stupid. >> Yeah, well, it's just
not going to happen. It's not propagated. >> Can I -- can I
also -- can I just -- >> Yes. >> Sorry. I mean, also to add to the racist issue is
also the gender issue. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, it's quite remarkable
actually that over the course of the campaign these allegation
of sexual abuse bubbled up again and again, comments that
I can't repeat right now on TV were uttered. Also denied, but we
had them on tape. And none of this was
a deal breaker for all of these white women who
voted for him anyway. So, can I just ask you,
friend, we've seen, we discussed the emboldening of,
you know, the white supremacist and other groups during the time that Donald Trump
has been president. What has happened to
women, do you think, what are we witnessing
amongst women? >> I'm sorry, in what way? >> As in technologically, as in
the discussion around assault and kind of an anger
around sexism, women becoming a lot more
vocal and active and -- >> I know a lot of people think
it's related to Trump, I don't. >> You don't? >> No. Not at all. You know, I don't think the need
to movement is related to Trump. I think it was almost
chance, you know, and just incredibly lucky
and something I never, it never occurred to
me it would change. I mean, as surprised by this
as I was by Trump election, you know, because it's been, you
know, the way women are treated by men has been the same, you
know, in 1512, 1612, 1812, 1912. And then in nine
weeks it changed. You know, and, you know,
I think in the case of Harvey, for instance -- >> Yeah. Who you know, you
know some of these [inaudible]. >> I know very well --
I know all these guys. I know 90% of the, you know,
and I knew all these stories about Harvey, but I never
heard the rape stories. Of all the stories,
most of which I knew, and most of which everyone knew, and when you see these
actors saying, "I never heard about this," just a lie. Okay? But the rape,
the criminal aspect of it I never heard either. You know. And I never, you know, but the truth is
Harvey's business, not the sexual assault business,
which he had on the side that I didn't know
about, but he -- >> Yeah. >> The movie business,
it was in decline. It never would have
happened before that. Don't kid yourself. Harvey was, you know,
standing on top of that now and in control of
every Academy Award. No one said a word, okay. So, he was vulnerable to that. Because, just the way in
Hollywood, as soon as you start to slip, that's it, they go
after you, no matter what. And I think that's
why he was vulnerable and then it was just incredibly
wonderful cascading thing one after another. Like all the guys you couldn't
stand the most wouldn't -- it was really --
it wasn't as great as Trump being the
president, but was pretty nice. >> Do you agree that those -- I mean, because the Time's have
been reporting on Weinstein, which was the trigger
moment for me to form, you know, for quite some time. How do you view the time
of Trump and the rise up of the [inaudible] movement. Okay, so, there's a lot to that. But I think -- I think that the
political backdrop really did actually have an impact one
everything that was going on. I think that all of
these sort of movements as they were occurring
started to sort of lay the groundwork
for me too. So, you had black lives matter,
then you had Trump being elected and then a whole lot of
women said, "My goodness, look at what's just happened." And then too, by the
way, a lot of women and men said, "What
just happened?" So then you started to see
the rise of these marches. Then you had the Harvey
reporting that was going on at the New York Times,
the Harvey story breaks. It's huge, it's radical
and major, because these stories
have kind of been bubbling around the edges for
years and decades and no one ever really able
to do anything about it. or stories that were,
you know, you know, incidence that were brought
to the police were sort of disappeared or, you know,
money was thrown at the problem and lawyers were thrown at the
problem and all manner of kind of quashing what was happening. So you had the Harvey
story that breaks. And then the stage is
really set by all of that that had come before with
the marches that people felt that I actually can speak out and suddenly you had
the me too thing, where all of these small --
not small to the individual, but where all of these
individual stories were being told. These stories that might have
been whispered to your friend in confidence or possibly, you
know, maybe you tell your mum or whatever that
they were so small and maybe someone would believe
you and maybe they didn't. Suddenly you have these
things that were just blasting out on social media
and the whispers became as what I think of as a roar. And you could not put all
of those me too stories back in the box after that. >> I also think it helped that
people like Selma Hayek came out in "Lupita Nyong'o, and some
of the most famous actresses in the world saying --
or those who got stalled and now we know why
their careers stalled. It's happened to women in this
room, it's happened to those of us up here where you
pissed off the wrong guy for whatever reason and
you paid a price for it. But one of the things
that we haven't talked about that I think
is critical dimension up here is the Christian
evangelical alignment with Donald Trump. It is the most stunning,
appalling thing to me. I've written a lot about it
over the last number of weeks, I just had a piece
-- there's this book out in America right now called,
"The Faith of Donald Trump," and Brody and these guys, and I
just dissembled that whole thing in an article that
I wrote about. It's fake faith. And I hate to call
somebody's faith fate, but I read this scripture
that says faith without works is dead. So therefore, if
you can treat -- the way he talks on Twitter
alone is problematic. But the white evangelical
Christian movement, which is always has roots
in the Republican Party and is conservative, you go
back to Reagan and daddy Bush, the Christian coalition,
they've kind of been revived again
through Donald Trump. Here's a man I haven't
seen go to church once, once since he's been president. He calls it two Corinthians,
instead of second Corinthians, he doesn't have a clue what
scripture actually means, he's the most ungodly man I've
ever seen and they love him. So, again it goes back
to this fringe element within the new Republican Party
that has infected it in a way that it's not the party
of Lincoln anymore, it's not Dwight Eisenhower's
Republican Party anymore. It's a very different republican
party and I just think that race is the
subtext and gender, because in the evangelical
world, women -- you've seen Beth
Moore, people like that in the southern Baptist movement where women are trying
to push down. You had Christine
Caine, one of your own from here who's amazing,
she's one of the voices where they've been loud about how women get
treated in the church. And, so, it is --
Trump is really tapped into all the elements
of sexism and racism and it's simply unbelievable
that he's the president of the United States of America. It's very sobering. [ Applause ] >> It was fascinating to watch
how quickly may two became church two. >> Yes. >> And if you analysed what
was being said in church -- >> Great hashtag. >> -- to was domestic
abuse actually. >> Absolutely. >> So it was very much what
was happening in the homes, which kind of erupted. But then what happens with
all of this, what happens with these stories
and this dissent. A re you hopeful, Fran,
about the future and where to for here, particularly in
the wake of this agitation? >> You mean about
me too movement? >> Yep. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure
helpful is the word you're looking for, but I've
never actually thought about that concept, so
I can't really answer. But, there's certain
things that are not going to go back, that is for sure. For me I would prefer that
people concentrated less on movie stars, you know, who are at any rate not the
most generally admirable people on the face of the planet Earth. And more about women who
work at McDonalds, you know, women who work in factories,
women who make beds in hotels who are the slaves of the
janitor on that floor. You know, who can't say anything
because they make $6 an hour and they need to make that $6. Those are the people that these
female movie stars who are now in a better position,
if that was possible, they should concentrate
on those women. Because that is the thing that
is really important, you know. You don't have to be a movie
star if you don't want to be, but everyone wants to be,
but if you're making beds in a hotel you have to do that. You know, and you -- people, men
that they are under the thumb of are sometimes 20
year old boys, you know, who are the night manager at
their Burger King, you know. These stories are
truly horrible. You know, but I actually think
it's not going to go back, but I also do not think that
you're going to turn around and find out that women
own these companies. Because that's the power. You know, the power in the
United States it's the power, you know, of capitalism. Who owns it. You know, whose house is it. Who can say, get
out of my house. You know, and that's men. So, you know, in the corporate
world, which I'm obviously not that familiar with and would
have done very poorly in, of course, you know, it's
men who run everything. You know, I have a
friend who always says, "Men, they own the joint." And that's true about whatever
the joint is, you know. As far as what you were saying
before about the evangelicals, it's abortion, that's
all they care about. You know, I mean, they
care about that a 100%, that's why they wanted what's
his name in the Supreme Court. You know, they are
obsessed with abortion. Not with babies. It's not like these guys care
about babies, it's about women. You know, as far
as I'm concerned, I don't care what any man
thinks about abortion. I have zero interest. I don't think the
father should get to say. Unless you're pregnant, I
don't really care, you know. [ Applause ] I mean, Barney Frank, who
was a fantastic congressman from Massachusetts, he's
retired, Barney Frank once said, "Republicans, they only care
about human life from conception to birth, after that
you're on your own." >> You know, just to say,
we're just about to open it up to questions, so if you
can just get ready to think about that and we have two
microphones here and here, but if I can just get
each of you to respond to what Fran was saying and
also the question of whether -- what you think all
of this means. >> Well, my hope is, we
were talking about this in the greenroom, we've got
to start having a conversation about our boys, our brothers,
our sons, our husbands, etc. The issue -- it's
great to focus on me too and what's happened
to us as women. But if you don't change
the behaviour of men, it ain't going to get better. And the only way we do that is
we have to start teaching boys from the time we're little how
to value women and respect them as equals and not
to -- you know how in schools a little boy
likes you he pulls your hair and there's this
aggressive behaviour. He really wants to kiss
you, but he hits you. It's kind of crazy, right, but we know that's
been happening forever, so we have to teach boys
and men to value women, otherwise this does not change. That is a critical part
of this conversation that we're not having. >> Yeah, yeah. [ Applause ] >> Okay, to respond to
both of you as best I can. So, I agree with you, we need
to be having this conversation with boys and girls as well. This is not a one
sided conversation. And we need to work out how
we interact with one another. I think that the really
great things that has come about because of this is a lot
of men, at least men I know, are having the conversation
and wondering, what does my behaviour mean. What does it mean if I
do this or don't do that or how does it feel when someone
says something like this to you? And really asking
themselves how do I operate in this workplace now. And I think that's a
question that a lot of women have asked themselves,
but not a lot of men. So I'm really excited to see that happening with
a lot of men. And then also to just
draw on your point. I'm so glad you raised
the millions of women who are doing anonymous,
unexciting, not very sexy jobs, who are doing incredibly
hard work, who cannot speak out about what is happening,
because it really could in fact endanger them. And I think one of the
things we were trying to do at the Times is really
start telling those stories. Fine, it started at the top,
it started on, you know, red carpets and glamour
and perhaps that helped this become a story
that people could latch onto, because you know who
all of these stars were and you had seen them and you
felt an element of familiarity with them because you'd
seen them in so many movies. But I think now we have
to really really think about what this means for the
ordinary person and what places and jobs that every single
level it's essential. >> And is this where
you're trying to drive the reporting as well? I mean, I've noticed the
Times has been doing -- >> Yeah. >> -- common factoring and so
on, is that what [inaudible]? >> That's right, I think that's
really important thing to cover. The other thing I really want to see us covering is
really looking at sort of what is next for women. There's a lot, a lot, a
lot more women running for political office this year. Their numbers are
just extraordinary. >> Looked at what happened
in Virginia in 2017, the old Dixie South, the
confederacy was headquartered in Virginia and women
running changed the landscape. That state is very blue now. Women who never -- we had
one lady who was transgender when Danica -- I think
her name's Danica, I don't remember her name -- but she beat this conservative
republican guy who refused to even acknowledge her during
a debate talk, talk to her. And she beat him. And he's been in
office 30 years. >> Right. >> So, people it's changing -- >> I think that's a
really big story to watch and let's see what
happens in this election. >> Are you going to run, Sophia? >> Someday, sure. >> Yeah, as an independent? Yes. As an independent? >> I'll probably
run as a republican, but I'll change the
Republican Party. I worked for Christy Whitman,
which you had in your intro. She was the first female
governor of New Jersey. And there are the moderates
will get the party back, because Trump will do
such damage to the GOP that it will have
to start over again. I believe that goals. And so goals. >> All right, just opening
it up to questions now. If I could go to
you, number 3, yes? >> Lucky first. I'm a bit short. I just had a question
about democracy in the US in the state of women
within that. At the recent conservative
conference leading republic woman, Mona -- I've
forgotten her last name. >> Sharron. >> Sharron. She was booed on stage
because she criticised Trump. And I was just wondering, where
does that leave women's voices within the republican movement,
are they being drowned out, and what does that mean
for the state of democracy. Is any criticism just shut down? >> Well, I'll take that. You remember during the election
in 2016 when the tape came out. There were Nikki
Haley, the UN -- I'm really surprised he
put her in the cabinet. That shocked me. Because she was unequivocally
tough on him and she made a statement
about what he said as did what over 200 some republicans
did, a lot of them women. But once he won it was
a different ball game. And, so, I think
that what's happening in the GOP now is
people are telling -- Paul Ryan, good friend
of mine 25 years, I just don't know what to say. I've never seen anything like
the power he seems to have over these people not to say
what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure I know what that's
about, but I do think that again after 2020, if Trump
is not reelected, which I pray god he is not, but if he is not
reelected in 2020 -- >> You don't think
he will be, Fran? >> I don't think he'll
be in office then. >> We'll see, we'll see. But, that's a fair point
with the investigations. That's another topic
we can talk about. I think that 2020s
going to tell us a lot. If he gets reelected,
wow, I don't know what to say what that means. But I think the Republican
Party's going to be in a lot -- it's in trouble, but it's going to be really damaged
when he's done. Really damaged. >> The question being
the big tent. Right? And revival of that. Yes? Over there, hi. >> Hello, sorry, I'm short too. >> I think maybe the
microphone stands are tall. >> They're angled for men. >> I didn't hear what she said. I didn't hear. >> Actually I wanted
to say something. I do have a question, I promise. I just wanted to say something,
interestingly you talked about me too, but for the
average woman, I was talking to you bringing it up, because I
thought it was really important because we focus on
these celebrities. But we kind of get lost
in the conversation about the average
woman and I realise that my mother happened -- that
sort of stuff happened to her when I was -- when
she was at work and it started happening to me. A year ago when I told her about
it she said, "Oh, that happened to me, it just happens." And since me too she encouraged
me to come forward and I did and I found out that someone who
was touching me inappropriate in the work place was touching
11 plus girls in the workplace and he got fired
because I reported him. [ Applause ] And I did it because
my mum supported me in it for the first time. But what I wanted
to ask you guys was, "Why do you think
this conversation about what's happening in
America and happening with Trump and American women, why do you
think it's important for us, Australians, but specifically
Australian women to talk about? What are the implications
in our lives in Australia?" I know it's -- you guys, half o
you are American, but, you know, why is this an important
conversation from your perspective for us to
be having in other countries? >> Are you interested
in the whole panel? >> I don't know. >> Okay, just a quick
answer to me. Thank you. >> Sorry. Good on
you and your mother. Yes. >> Okay, so to respond -- >> Well first, is it me, I
mean, you've just landed here, but what does it mean -- >> Two really -- two
really quick things. Firstly, Trump is fascinating. And as you pointed out earlier,
we talk about him all the time and I think he's fascinating
everywhere in the world and one of our jobs is to try and
sort of explain what is going on with Trump to everybody,
even though we're trying to figure it out daily. So, that's one thing. But then to really touch on
your sexual harassment issues, and by the way, thank you
for sharing those stories, because it's really
really brave. >> Good for you. >> So, to just touch on that, I think that is absolutely
relevant, it's relevant everywhere,
because I am pretty sure that people here in the
workplace are dealing with the same issues
that we're dealing with in workplaces
and across the US. We've got leadership issues,
we've got pay parity issues, we've got pipeline problems. We have a lot of things
that need to be sorted out and this is really the
start of that conversation. So, I think that, you know, at
least for sort of what places in the US, Australia, UK,
parts of Europe, I mean, these are questions that we
need to be happening right now. So, yes, it is relevant. >> I think the reason it's so
important is that, you know, I wrote my second book,
"The Woman Code," is really about the connexions
between women. And there's something really
fabulous about being a woman. And we don't say that enough
and we don't understand that we have a lot of power and
that power comes from within, knowing our value and our worth. And, so, I think America,
again, we tend to be the centre of attention, whether,
you know, we take it, we're the centre of attention. And I think that, you know,
it's important for women here in Australia and the UK and
Africa and Asia and India and everywhere else
to understand that they have a voice to and they can do exactly
what you did. It takes a spark to
get a fire started and you're seeing it
happen with these women in Hollywood and regular work. Steve Wynn, the mogul, the casino mogul got
brought down for his conduct. Apparently he had raped a woman,
impregnated her back in the 60s. So, he's been doing
this for a long time. And now women are saying,
"I'm telling my story." And I want every woman and
man in this room to know that your story, sharing your
story can actually change and save lives when
you tell the truth and you take your power back. And that's why I think
it's so important. To take our power back as women. [ Applause ] >> Fran, did you want
to respond to that? >> To which? >> To the question about -- >> I really -- I really
couldn't hear her. >> Oh, okay. Do you know what -- >> Did she ask why is
it important to the rest of the world about Donald Trump? Because who the president of the United States
affects the entire world. You know, right after the
election an Italian friend of mine said to me, "It
will be okay, you know, we had Berlusconi,
that was awful too." I said, "Yes, Berlusconi was
horrible for the Italians, but Trump's going to be
horrible for the whole world." You know, and it is important. It's not just that it seems
important or that people pretend that it's important,
it's really important. Donald Trump does something like
spectacularly idiotic, you know, like putting tariffs on steel,
you know, and it's going to affect everybody
in the entire world. And, so, even the other
republicans, you know, the regular republicans who
you seem to like, but I -- [inaudible] Paul Ryan is a
good person, a good republican. You know, Paul Ryan he can't
wait to get rid of Medicare. There are -- you
know, republicans are of course conventionally
against this kind of thing because it's bad for business. Okay, so if people are surprised
that Trump does something bad for business, that's because
there's still apparently people who think Trump was
a business man. But he never was. He was just a cheap hustler. Okay? The real-estate
guys in New York, who are not your most thrilling
people on the planet Earth, they look down on him. Okay? They didn't' vote for
him, the real developers, okay? So, it's not at all
surprising to me. It's very dangerous when
there's a very president in the United States, it's
dangerous to the world. We're still at war
in Afghanistan, because we had a
really bad president after September 11th, okay? If Al Gore had been the
president we would have invaded Afghanistan, why would we have? Okay. He knew where
it was, okay. But George Bush didn't. All right. So, you know, it's very
important who the president of the United States is,
no matter where you live. That may not be something
that you like, you may be like irritated, why,
you know, am I in Australia and have to worry ab
out who the president of the United States is, when
no one in the United States, not only knows who the Prime
Minister of Australia is, but even knows where it is. Okay? Including me. I was completely flabbergasted. It's really far. So, but -- >> The Prime Minister was just
in America the [inaudible]. >> Yes, the Prime Minister
was in the United States. I was like worried for six
months about this plane trip and I saw on the news that
he was at the White House and I called someone
and said, "Do you know when he's going back?" Because I thought, I
can get a ride with him. >> You know, the ride
here was difficult. It was -- I'll never do
that night right again, that was just frightening. It was just dark, dark, dark. And we hit turbulence and I was
like, "Oh, hell, this is over, I'm going to die in the
middle of the Pacific Ocean." >> But you didn't. >> I didn't. Thank god for that. >> We probably got
time for just one more, but can I go down to you. Yes? >> Wondering what your views
are on the NRA and Trump? >> Well, I'll start. [inaudible]. >> Your views on
the NRA and Trump. >> As a former member
of the NRA, again, in the south raised military
family, guns are part of my life since I can remember. I believe strongly in
the second amendment. I believe in all the amendments
to the US Constitution. But there comes a point where
you have to say, "Wait a minute, human life is more valuable." And what happened in Parkland
with the shooting and the way that those young people
have responded is amazing and corporations are reacting,
sporting goods stores, whether it's Wal-Mart
or Dick's, even Kroger. I had no idea Kroger sold guns at the grocery store
in the south. Yes, and where I live in
Virginia, for example, you can walk in any
store, any gun shop, you get a background check, it
takes them about 10 minutes. And the problem with background
checks is, if I'm a sane person and I've not ever
committed any crimes, it doesn't mean I
might not go commit one after I go buy an
arsenal weapons. And in Virginia you can
literally buy hand grenades in a store. You can buy -- I'm not making
this up, you can buy -- you can buy cache of
weapons, tonnes of ammo and nobody's going to
say anything to you. so, there comes a point all
the polling data shows this in America, that the vast
majority of Americans, including gun owners,
like myself, and second amendment people, believe that we need
some gun control. Believe that AR-15s are
necessary to protect your home. A good shotgun will
do the trick for you. So, you don't need to have
the weapon that's going to go through the walls and kill
the whole neighbourhood, that's not what you need. So, I think that we're
going to see some movement, I think that Trump
flip, flopped again. It looked like he was headed
in the right direction and then the NRA
came and had dinner at the White House
and then he flipped. So, I'm not sure where we're
going to end up, but I'm hopeful that republicans and
democrats alike realise that the children's lives
matter more -- we're not -- nobody's going to take
our guns in America. That's just a stupid,
dumb, ridiculous argument. It's not going to happen. But you don't need to have a
weapon of mass destruction, is what I like to call it. So, I'm hopeful there'll be
some reform that will save us from ever seeing
something so horrible again. >> That won't happen. It won't happen. I don't believe in the
second amendment, by the way. You know, I don't believe. [ Applause ] You know, by which I mean I
don't believe that it means that individuals
can have weapons. You know, I believe that it
means what it says, which is, "You can raise a militia." The big fear of the founders was that someone declare
themselves king. >> Right. >> You know, so I do not think
that people should have guns. New York City has
really strong gun laws. For instance, if you were found
to have possession of a gun in New York you go
to gaol for one year. Even if you didn't
use it, you know. And I think that's
a fantastic idea. So, I don't believe in
the second amendment. I don't believe this
is going to change. You know, the NRA
when I was young was a hunting organisation. You know? I used to
see their magazines, they would show people
like hunting ducks. I'm not opposed to
hunting, I eat animals. You know, one of the problems with the left is
they started going against guns because of hunting. And I would argue with people,
you know, saying, "You know, unless you're a vegan, in which
case I probably don't know you that well, you know, I don't
want to hear about ducks and rabbits, I don't
want to hear about it." You know, I care
about human beings. I don't think animals are
equivalent to human beings. I'm sorry, I know
you're supposed to care about it, but I don't. You know, and you are going
to -- but no one hunts rabbits or whatever they
eat with these guns. They use a long gun, a
rifle, which you can't put in your pocket and get
onto the subway with, because people would see it. So, you know, I've shot
a handgun in my life, and the second you shoot a gun like that you know
what it's for. It's for shooting human beings. That's what those guns are for. You know. And I would
suggest the best way to protect yourself is to live in New York City
and have a doorman. [ Applause ] >> If only it were that simple. If only we all could. Yes. So, I'm going to try and
just sort of take a little bit of a different answer
to your question to try and move it forward a bit. And I think, you know, we've
talked a lot about activism, marches, all of this sort of
ground work that has been laid since Trump became
president, with, you know, the women's marches coming out. And I think what is
really really interesting to see right now are these
students are who teenagers who are coming out and saying -- just like women have said a few
months ago, "Enough is enough, we're not going to
stand for this. This is what we believe." In a few years' time they're
going to be voters and, you know, they're coming
out and they're marching and they're making their
voices heard and frankly if you've listened to
some of the speeches that they're giving, they're
really very impressive. They're remarkably
well spoken and poised and really making
legitimate arguments that I think it's very
hard to keep sort of just like the me too thing. It's very hard not to hear it. The noise is getting very loud. So, I think, you know, we
sort of think a lot about sort of where is this going
from here and we've had so many gun incidents
in the US at, you know, what we call soft targets. It's not just schools,
it's universities, it's -- oh, it's churches,
it's supermarkets and movie theatres and, you
know, the people who are in the line of fire are
just the people who happen to be there at that moment. I mean, it's devastating. But I think these kids basically
standing up and saying, "We've had enough and we're
ready to do something," I think that's worth watching. [ Applause ] >> I feel so regretful
that we've reached the end of the hour, I just want
to pull out a bottle of whisky and keep going. But -- and everyone else
could have something too, but. I'm so grateful for these
women and their time. There's going to be -- Sophia's
going to be signing books and you are afterwards,
maybe, or after your talk. Anyways, couple of
us signing books. I'm signing too about
something not relevant, about a nasty woman who
once lived in history. And I just want to take a moment
to appreciate the three women that we have on this stage. [ Applause ] Hang on a minute. And just each of them, I
just want to say, Francesca, thank you for the reporting
that you were doing, that has reverberated
around the world. It's been so crucial in
amplifying the voices and concerns of women. And it has meant so
much to all of us. Sophia, your voice
as a woman of colour and moderate republican is
crucial and we want you to run. We want to see you
in the White House. So, let's wait to see if
that ends up happening. And, Fran, you're
just so fabulous, I'm glad you exist and I want -- [ Applause ] And I'm not the first person
to say this, but, you know, you do belong on
the Supreme Court and that would be
fantastic, right? Anyway, finally, thanks to these
women, see you in the lobby and thanks so much for
your attention today. >> Thank you. [ Applause ]
