Master/Class: Fran Lebowitz with A.M.Homes

to a very brief introduction to friendly poets who as they say needs no introduction she's a native of New Jersey who long ago cross the bridge her early work appeared in the pages of Andy Warhol's interview she went on to write two books Metropolitan Life and social studies before being taken hostage by a version of writer's block so severe that the rest of us in sympathy write less she's had a reoccurring role as a judge in Law & Order which despite her lack of a law degree seems to be like a position she's well-qualified before and most recently was the subject of a documentary public speaking directed by Martin Scorsese a filmmaker she's described as promising I've known Fran since 1985 but this is actually our first conversation hasn't actually been too terrified to talk to her so I'm very much looking forward to it please welcome Fran Lebowitz hi this is a nice touch too so you know one of the things of the many things that I wanted to ask you about is that pen as you know is this what is this writers organization that supports freedom of expression and I thought why don't we just start there which is your thoughts on the importance of free expression despite might what seem like what I like a downside could you repeat the word exactly well I just working it is working I think it's working um you know obviously I think freaks but I think for exertion is very important but I can imagine there some people that I can picture you not wanting to really hear what they think so I'm just curious your thoughts about the overall idea I raise I don't want to hear what they think but I think they have a right to to think it okay right I believe also in freedom of not listening right that's the second event that's one a yes exactly um the theme of this year's talk or this year's festival in the talk is bravery do you think of yourself as a brave person I don't think of myself as much as you might imagine period I'm past the thinking of myself age yeah it's incredibly relaxing um uh I don't think of myself as a great person you know I I don't think I don't actually think in these terms because I'm lucky enough not to have to write alright so I know that everybody here probably hates the United States of America but what is that is that a definite but I have had to be counted among those people because I don't have to think about being brave right okay I mean Americans are called brave if they participate in triathlon right yeah I mean but we don't know that the meaning of this word right New Yorkers brave just if they leave the house um it depends where they live with it yes I mean and New Yorkers are gonna have to be even but the bravery that New Yorkers have to have when they leave the house has almost entirely to do with bicycle writers yeah yes and it's getting worse as you see these horrible things they're putting all over again right right okay I mean one of the worst things I've ever seen yes in the streets of New York and I thought your since 1969 yes and it's and it's done away with most parking if there was ever parking it's no no no there's parking next to it yes yes because Bloomberg has apparently zero idea of geometry he keeps putting more and more things in the street but the streets are the same size it's actually true I was actually run over last week by a bike rider going the wrong way at 14th and 9th where there's also a one of those pedestrian parks in the middle of the street yes in the street very confusing I couldn't even get mad at the guy we're all confused I met it tonight I'm not confused okay the the the furniture that is strewn about the city which I believe to come from the apartments of New Yorkers who can no longer for Department large enough to contain furniture right right Oh everyone says I don't know I don't have room for a chair put it in the street so they're in the shape where they are occupied by tourists right a big as Bloomberg's plan for New York was to replace the citizens with tourists tourists and he has been very successful at this and you have talked a bit about the the Bloomberg measuring for the how small can the apartment be to be repulsive right I don't know if you happen to see this I actually saw this on television on the news and it was a bloomberg and Amanda Burton showing you the city apparently owns some property someplace in the East 20s I think it is yeah and they are going to turn these buildings into something called micro apartments like we don't know where they all have these okay so there was a shortage of everything like what because the thing that you most frequently hear New Yorkers complain about is that their apartments are too big right Joe and these are like I don't know nine by twelve inches yeah and I they're made to measure them you custom fits your it basically first that is your shoe size so and I said that I don't know I Percy was offended to see a billionaire and a millionaire deciding how small an apartment we could live in right it was repulsive repulsive and then they put the furniture outside because you don't need the chair they said put the furniture outside for the tourists right that's a command economy yeah I don't know what you asked me I don't either um you know just just to elaborate on that not knowing what I asked you um I was curious what your thoughts are about what's happening here in the village because you are now in the in recent years a village of resident and it seems that NYU is slowly not slowly and also and the hot and the closing of st. Vincent's because I worry about what will happen when I have a heart attack okay um which should I address first NYU okay everybody always says everyone at least everyone downtown always preface is there their criticism of NYU by saying of course I love NYU I don't love NYU and why of course you know why would you I mean NYU has done things that are absolutely illegal I mean they knock down Washington Square South okay to put up one giant suburban piece of junk after another yeah okay they there is a building now in Washington Square Park yes there is the public restrooms okay I mean Washington Square Park used to just be a public restroom you didn't have to go inside what is it right um and now they're building this I don't know ninety story hotels or whatever you know right and it costs something like I'm not sure how much but like sixty thousand dollars a year to go NYU the only good thing about NYU is they meaning these so-called students who don't look really that studious to me so called students never ever go east a Broadway or Western sixth Avenue so basically they treat this like the suburban campus it should be and I would personally be happy to go upstate and find them a large piece of property to make the whole thing out of New York and on st. Vincent's um st. Vincent's Hospital our mayor who believes himself to be known as the public health mayor has presided over the closing of more hospitals than any mayor in the history of New York and the reason is always the same this place where this hospital is used to be not that valuable but now it is you know and all these hospitals are being replaced by very expensive apartments or hotels and so he didn't say a word about the closing do you think it would be okay if the apartments had suction I mean if they when they built the apartments they put the oxygen and all the things in so just yep you mean for my gosh yes no people New Yorkers don't need oxygen that's clear uh-huh and so he didn't say a word except that Saint Vince hospital wasn't making enough money right like the like the purpose of every institution is to make money so of course it wasn't making enough money they're not supposed to make any money why should hospitals make money I got actually got rabies shots at Saint Vincent's Hospital it was $7000 really how did you get rabies from I met a bat in the middle of the night I think I hooked up it wasn't I know I can't help but it wasn't voluntary um anyway um yeah that would be a hate crime which I don't believe in yeah can you say more about that yes I do not believe in hate crimes I mean I do not believe there should be such a thing as a hate crime almost all the things that are hate crimes are already crimes okay I paid it is a crime to beat someone up if you put them up just because you don't like them or you beat them up because they're Jewish or because they're black or because they're gay it should be the same crime because otherwise your hate crime is a thought crime so I know this is going to be popular I can hear I can feel how unpopular this is but it is an infringement it's it infringes on what you're thinking you know if anything I just hate this guy because I hate him or I hate this guy because he's gay to be free to think that he should be free to think that the beating up part is the crime is the crime that's the thinking part you know we were there's so many paths to go down here but one of them was and you you've spoken a little bit about that you're you're for revenge I enjoy yes I am for revenge yeah and it's good no matter when you get it okay so it doesn't expire yes I mean some people say you know it's best cold it's best time it's just you know it's it's really has to do with opportunity okay and the other side of that you've said you're not so interested in forgiveness um it's not that I'm not interested in it said I actually don't know what it means I I genuinely do not know what it means yeah I don't know what it means um is it I've asked many people what I mean it but it must mean forgetting all right because otherwise what does it mean you know letting go of something being willing to sort of generous or kind of generosity I don't think I said I bet I have forgiven people in the sense that I have decided not to press charges for such charges yes I mean you know I like I think we okay I'll let that go but I just forget about it right okay it didn't it absolutely changes my if someone does something to me yeah which I would be the judge of doing something to me even if I don't think they did something to me um then I never forget that they did something to me sometimes I stopped speaking to people for so long there actually is one person that today I was reminded of that I didn't remember why I stopped speaking right that can happen but I'm certain it was for a good reason and I'm not gonna right now to fall in the category of recovered memory or yeah um okay then so moving straight a Michigan idea anyway right forgiveness I mean in fact forgiveness is Christianity because is why there are so many more Christians and Jews all right everybody was Jewish then Jesus came and he said I'll forgive you and then all the same people became Christians left with just a bunch of judgmental Jews like myself you know and Yom Kippur every year you're not supposed to it's you're supposed to even forgive for like the things you didn't even do your suppose I'm reporting significant is for repentance we don't have a forgiveness holiday okay that's them Yom Kippur is if you repent for your sins and that's it and you just leave it at that no you repent for them and that's it you don't that you don't get forgiven that I did read something though where you're supposed to make the effort to to let others know that you are you are having trouble saying the word forgiveness how you're forgiving them is but it's not for its in religion I believe not that I'm an expert on the subject it's not people forgiving you it is God forgive yes well that's Jewish God does not forgive people the Jewish God is a judge so so that's what I feel God like much okay going in the director of the Judit of the judicial the drummer I can't speak you play a judge on TV and it does seem to become you I mean it seems a part that you're quite suited for I know it's my destiny it is it's also my hobby because I played a judge alone water right and then I I just recently played the judging Marty Scorsese is new movie the wolf of Wall Street and I just I'm about to play a judge in another movie it's my happy recyclin and when I started doing the judge on Law & Order people started asking me why are you playing this tiny part of you hoping you get bigger parts and I said no I'm hoping to become a real judge well that's what I think yeah I can surprise exactly because my it comes I can't act at all so I have been offered other parts from this and I just didn't know I can't do that like I can only be a judge because I am judgmental right and I am hoping become a Supreme Court judge yeah because you do not have to be a lawyer to be a Supreme Court judge and I'm already not a lawyer yeah I'm thinking this actually this path it worked for Ronald Reagan I don't see what's impeding the problem and I think it's a given at this point I made and also the Supreme Court gets cases that are so easy I don't know what I saw so long like every single Supreme Court the decision that I'm aware of I could decide in two seconds because I make snap judgments which are the best judge right yes because slow judgments means there's corruption right it means you're listening to other voices right okay it's really the Supreme Court especially it's really simple they have a document which is very clear although apparently not to Republicans right right yes um I have this weird dim memory that there was a while where you and Tony marshal are watching a lot of Court TV um Court TV Tony rooked me into watching the entire trial of the Menendez bright okay now it's coming back which took an entire year a year of my life which is apparently more valuable than your per Tony's because she won the Nobel Prize anyway during that year then this is because although I had no Tony for a long time the Menand Menendez brothers trial which I not know started everyday it was televised it started every day at noon and we watched it on the telephone everywhere I remember the entire day and I was thinking at the time well it must be okay to do this Tony's doing it and then I discovered after I never knew this about her that Tony gets up every day at five o'clock in the morning and right until like 11 o'clock so Tony had already had it days right right I myself after watch the Menendez try all day I was exhausted I felt I put in a full day and that was it right yeah she also convinced me that yeah the Menendez brothers were innocent really yes she was wrong she thought okay Simpson was innocent oh really yes she's very forgiving Tony that's that's actually very interesting um you know one of the questions I well okay as leaping ahead in sideways um do writers have a kind of social responsibility beyond the bounds of say a plumber or a bus driver do you think there's something about being a writer or a judge no artists do not have social responsibility I really believe that yeah because no they've never spent smooth oh that's why they become artists uh-huh no I don't think that artists have social responsibility i I think it's very important that people realize that they do not have that because if you think that you have it or you let other people think that then they demand that you meet their standards which are probably very poor you have very high standards I have very high standards yes but they don't right okay so that you know when they go you know when when Giuliani decides there can't be a painting it's a Brooklyn Museum she spite the fact that he's never been in a museum you know if you think that that artists have such responsibility then perhaps this artist too has not met his social responsibilities but if you just say the artist has only responsibility to himself yeah then you don't have to go along with Giuliani in other words it's people like that who think artists have to meet certain standards their their standards price and say right or their idea of socialism okay and so once you say in our has any social responsibility you are walking in to their idea of it do you think is that it we as individuals have a kind of social response yes citizens citizens yes I was not supposed to be a citizen yeah what am I supposed to do well not just vote once in a while okay I mean that seems to be that's an important one that we often apparently don't do yes but he said that you know I blame the Congress on all the delightful young people who so proudly cast their first vote for Obama the first term and they never voted again hence the midterms right because I went to vote for the midterms since I'm a fabulous voter and even though I live in a neighborhood where the average age is like 22 I was the youngest person they're voting right that's true that's the reason why then why am okay so you don't just like vote once and then just say you know I voted I voted I'm gonna test you know that they're supposed to vote again that would be just one of the many things they seem not to know yeah yes citizens have responsibilities and and that is to pay attention you know one of the sons plays is to pay attention to things so to understand the certain things that are constantly presented to you as I don't know movements in the culture or in fact businesses okay so that if you turn on the news and you see them talking about these Google glasses all right like 20 minutes it's an ad for Google okay which is a business okay it's not an idea okay it's not a scientific it's not a laboratory it's a business yeah so you have responsibility to know what is a business and what is sexual institution and Google is a business it's a company just like coca-cola except more harmful do you have I mean like one of the things I think about us I have concern about how in this country it seems like we're we're losing some sense of class and that soon there only be two classes the rich and yoga I just curious what you thought the rich and what yoga yoga is your part of the rich I'd even be surprised at how little yoga goes on in the South Bronx yeah okay but when you think about sort of the economics of what's going on is that I mean when and I mean I think a lot about sort of our responsibility as citizens is it also to make sure that we have well our responsibility citizens among our many responsibilities such as to at least note that you know although of course it was horrible the bombing of the Boston Marathon the same day at where three people were killed the same day 14 people were killed in the explosion in Texas at the fertilizer right okay now I don't think the numbers are that important however the reason that all these people were killed that this fertilizer plant is because there are no inspections of businesses in Texas because because in Texas they have the freedom to kill workers okay and so that is something at least equally important to what happened in the Boston Marathon okay and that is a class issue right that is wholly a class action the people run in marathons don't think about people who work on fertilizer plants in Texas okay and the people who live in this town in Texas they weren't angry either at the owner of the plant because everyone has been pushed into these ideas of their allegiances which really have more to do with like the kind of things they buy then things that really have are important which is truthfully these differences and people are economic you can call them something else but they are economic right so if you are afraid to say anything about the guy who runs a fertilizer plant you know which what is a fertilizer plant by the way it's a giant bomb that's what it is it's a gigantic bomb and apparently it had not been inspected for 28 years okay 28 years okay yet every single restaurant New York they're inspecting every two second to make sure that your sushi is pristine and that must be the way that everyone wants it because that's the way it is right right you know one of the things that interests me is is the way that we get news in the way that that's changing in the sense that that newspapers are closing foreign bureaus and websites like that newspapers are closing I'm curious what your thoughts are about literally how we get information and how accurate the information we get is well the thing about newspapers is that I mean of course foreign bureaus are closing because no one reads newspapers the average age of a newspaper reader in this country is 55 ok if the average age of an apple eater was 55 no one will plant a tree ok I'm in it so I mean they don't read newspapers because they are by the way I've did preface it by saying I have none of these modern machines I don't have a computer or cell phone or whatever these other things I don't have any of them and nor do I read newspapers by the way I read it the Sunday Times that's it it takes one time yes it takes me the entire week to read the Sunday Times and I'm a fast reader right and I owe and I said I have friends who say I read a newspaper today and I say it takes me the whole week to eat this any times and they always say well that's because you read it you know so most people get sour information on computers or iPhones or whatever and the bad thing about this is that they only get the information they want ok that's the bad thing and the information that people want is the information they agree with and this is not new this is human nature ok human nature is horrible that's why it's called human nature and not human art ok so you know it is bad that people only get the information they're interested in because most people are interested in things they already agree with and so they don't write you know for instance someone comes into my apartment they go you read the new criteria and I say yes they say why and I say because I already know what I think right you know I mean what they think by the way is worse than you could imagine I mean it's kind of shocking but it's good to know I like that's why I like to watch Fox News I'm oh wait I am just horrified yes my Fox News is kind of hard to watch because you hear them yeah but it is good to check in from time to time just see what's happening um no you know I mean I always thought that social media meant people going to cocktail parties but apparently it is something else and today I was looking at it looked like you're tweeting are you tweeting or whose no she said fake Twitter last week I actually didn't know this intro I was standing outside a restaurant having a cigarette thank you Michael Bloomberg and in an actor a well-known actor one pastor restaurant stopped said hi to me so I said hi I never met this guy and he said thank you so much for these nice things that you're saying about me tweeting away and I said I didn't do anything nice about it and he was he was very embarrassed he said what we've been exchanging these tweets but I said but you haven't been exchanging with me so someone is masquerading as me tweeting do you know who your tweeter is I didn't know I don't know and I'm you know someone said you can do this thing and take it down I don't care okay it's not me so I've announced it to you very and just all your friends I have no idea who it is I was shocked I know I really thought there was a whole other world that I just thought really no there's also a Facebook page I don't know I saw that I was really I guess my god like this she's done gone over no no it has nothing to do with me I don't know what Simon I don't want to know you know people always say well there's this great thing about you I don't want to know because there may be a great thing I'm sure for each great thing there's 100 bad things okay or a thousand bad things yeah I can tell this just my walking down the street okay I paid some people say hi friend they're happy to see me some people scream at me more scream then say hi friends so I figure the same thing on the computer what do you think will happen about that when you get on the Supreme Court will there be will there be a shift in that is he on the stream record they won't be able to do anything to me that's the upset right this yeoreum court one of the great things about the Supreme Court like it's not televised thanks so when I watched you may have watched this I don't know during Bush v Gore apparently something to decide is it so hard that was incorrectly decided should we count the votes yeah I mean like a week after Bush v Gore I actually saw David Boies at a party yeah where in my opinion David Boies she's been hiding for the rest of his life in shame and I said how could you lose this how could you possibly lose this all you have to say is should we count the votes yes I mean what is democracy what's the definition of democracy counting votes that's the definition a democracy so I can't remember what I started saying oh when you're on the Supreme Court well the worldís I recorded that you can't televise so when I wash Bush v Gore which was televised with cartoons like this court right except where we have people who draw in court which they showed the drawings of people right and then they ran the audio of it so that was the first time that I realized that the judges could interrupt the lawyers which in regular court they can't interesting at all appeals courts again and so then it made me want to be a super court judge more than ever right you've really been practicing more than ever you know I mean and because they and the second that's the judge starts talking the lawyer has to shut up it's fantastic it's a dream job and yet look who they give it to I met Alito I mean it's it's mind-boggling yeah and I bet you get health insurance with that job I bet you do yes and the swell rose right right second only to the Pope which is a little more it's a that's a kind of a more difficult job these days being the Pope yeah I think it's it's a great job I think that people get really that is my real dream job but I made it right hey you don't have to be Lord Jesus your neighbor I'm sorry did you put your name in the Hat this I didn't but I did feel that during that period where they were looking for the new pope I really believe that Bloomberg was fake trying to forget how he could get this gig you know I heard I heard actually that they had used the sorting hat from Hogwarts and that was part of the problem I was like Slytherin slither and Slytherin and then they couldn't get him I'm not from the line it happened later Oh exactly okay then skipping ahead um so you know one of the things as I was gonna ask you as you thought in it thoughts on education cuz I think I know you to be somebody who's very obsessed by grammar and I always had a very hard time with grammar I didn't know who was modifying who and dangling participle sends me like sort of like an undescended testicle or something I didn't know but what do you think about where we are with edge literally with education in this country in the ideas of like teaching to a test the problem with you know people say how can we possibly improve the public school system here's how you improve the public school system white people have to send their children to public schools again period that's the whole thing I mean when I was young the only people went to private school were rich people it actually doesn't really matter what rich people do there aren't that many of them although here it seems like there's so many of them but the public schools need the involvement of people who can afford to be involved okay is it really simple and by the way all these things they apparently can't teach people how to do like read I mean I went to public school it was a pretty ordinary public school everyone learned how to read okay it's not that hard how to read okay I mean it's it's insane the idea that you can't do this and they keep saying teachers have to be excellent why I never had an excellent teacher almost no one's excellent yeah why would just teachers have to be excellent how could the fault of every single thing in the country be the fault of public school teachers I can't think of a more blameless lot of people right that public school teachers no matter what goes wrong they blame public school teachers okay and they and they always say you know if I ran my business the way they run the public schools you know I'd be out of business but a business is a really bad model for anything but a business yet we now model everything on a business and there's numerous reasons for this but let me assure you the advantage is with business okay a business despite what they want you to think is the simplest entity on the planet Earth it is simply an entity the sole purpose of which is to make a profit period it's not complicated public school system is really complicated really really complicated all public institutions are complicated way too complicated to be run by businessmen you know it's a terrible model but they love the model of the business you know and no one loves it more than our mayor right now when you think about our mayor or who might be the next mayor what do you do you think would make a good mayor me well I I really I I would make a great mayor of New York um but I don't run from error because I couldn't even win this room I don't think that's true actually it is true let me assure you it is true what if we drafted you still you need the votes okay um I mean I don't any I don't care who the next mayor is I mean I do care but whoever it is would be better than Bloomberg okay because one of the main important things is that the next mayor will not be a billionaire okay there should be a rule against having such a rich mayor I mean you have a mayor who in a city where property is rented and sold by the square foot is too rich to live in a place actually called Gracie Mansion no Peter slim equation mentioned it's too small for him okay how could he possibly have a sense of the citizen's right you know so that whoever the mayor is would be better however bad New York is now it will not stay this bad how do I know that it didn't stay the way it was before but in Metropolitan Life you quite prophetic Li wrote about the state of the city yes I am a prophet I know and you know and you've talked I heard you talk not long ago about you know what was what was still happening the city I mean when you would you ever campaign for someone who was running would you ever yeah no I have never given a nickel to a politician I never would you know because the truth is it's always the best of a bad lot you know it's not a good group okay I mean isn't that it's just not a good group is the answer the finer among us it does not you know I mean it really doesn't is there such a thing as a good politician well you know in my life the only two people have ever met in elective office who actually thought were smart where Barney Frank and Pat Moynihan that's it okay and I've met tons of these morons so they were actually smart by which I mean really smart right not you know not just smart for politicians okay and Barney Frank would never have been in elective office if he didn't have you know Cambridge you know which is the only like small town with his own foreign policy Pat Pat Moynihan was a fluke yeah to be in elective office and he was really smart and was in office for a very long time yes but that will never happen again don't worry okay does that worry you I mean do you do what what does were you what causes you anxiety and that as anxious as you might imagine I'm not I just I'm not a very anxious person were you ever no I know who's great I've had an anxious adolescence or something but I didn't what did you do instead I but I slept the only time I slept in my life was during my adolescence yes but now is just no I didn't sleep before that and I haven't slept since since yes but but during the time I was a teenager I could not stay awake which turns out to have been probably the best thing because everyone else seems you've had a horrible time right do you watch TV i watch TV but I have to say that I watch TV by which I met I mean I don't care what's on it no I mean I don't make all these fine distinctions that everyone else does like you know isn't madmen fantastic or you know she's been to me it's like I flipped do you up did you ever do watch any shows like homeland or no no I don't watch anything you have to watch more than once do you have any thoughts like she should 60 minutes be like shorter like 30 minutes I mean oh honey well you don't have to watch the whole thing the good thing is it's not a law yet right you know I mean it basically I watch TV in the middle of the night you know because I don't sleep right and I used to always read in the middle of the night and then I thought to myself it's too stimulating reading watch TV it's boring right um and it is boring but it's apparently too stimulating to let me sleep right I just as soon as it goes I can't believe anyone watches commercials once they invented the remote control which is the most modern thing I have in my house I never watched a commercial it's some commercial comes on I flip to the next thing so that I watch until there's commercial I flip to the next thing and yet if I come back I can follow it that's how not complicated it is and people watch she sings now on TV like homeland right or their soap operas basically yes absolutely you know I mean and then they're like 40 hours you know I'm too old I don't have the time what's a good day for you a good day for me is a night okay I don't I really don't enjoy the daylight hours no I just don't I'm not a morning person Thanks or even an afternoon provide it sir what time do you not go to sleep do you start not going to sleep I very rarely start trying to go to sleep before 2 or 3 right because that way the failure is shorter so you've talked a little bit in at other points about the difference between sort of opinion in fact and I'm curious that you know I feel like we live right now in a society where we're living on a lot of people's opinions but not necessarily any actual information yes well that's you know that's the problem when people don't believe things anymore in other words for instance the New York Times it used to be that if you were arguing with someone about something and there was some facts involved in the argument not always the case in an argument and you said no that's not true then The Times this morning said it was 400 that stopped the argument because everyone believed that if it said 400 New York Times the New York Times was correct ok no one believes New York Times is correct anymore no one believes any institution is correct anymore and so there's nothing in has substance I'm sorry substitutes for this right you know part of this is the New York Times fault and I mean actually the New York Times because it is certain point the New York Times you know stop telling you what actually happened and started every article with you know in a small dusty town in Afghanistan yeah every single article starts that way right ok now this is the fault of more than one per if it's a fault of who the guy who's running the Times now who is the son of the guy who used to run it when I was young and it's obviously his fault because he must encourage these people to write you know and there's no special writing on the newspaper ok that's what books are for all right it shouldn't start that it should start with a bomb went off in Afghanistan or whatever the thing is writing it for right ok if you want to write write a book ok and so the whole first paragraph of every story The Times is writing and it's not good writing okay so this is not good writing how about reporting reporting would be good the thing is that writing is free basically you know and reporting is expensive and see if no one's going to believe the reporting and no one cares about the writing why read the thing I mean and it does have its filled with opinion you know every single thing is an opinion and you feel that you didn't used to feel that I'm sure it was true to some extent but not the way it is now and also everybody feels that their opinion is worthwhile you know and everybody feels that their opinion is interesting and in fact you know that is obviously not true where do you get your facts from I don't know but they come to me and someone I pay attention right right what do you pay attention to though well one thing is either your sources I'm I observe okay for instance when I'm in the street which I am all the time right because I don't have these things I'm in the street I'm in the street everyone else whatever they're doing with that thing right that's where they are okay so they're not in the street so I will frequently say to people did you see they took this building down everyone go No and I'll say but you passed it every day how could you not notice it because they were doing this so I noticed it of course would be good to know that they were going to take the building down beforehand but I guess it's just my miraculous powers of observation and there are some facts available yeah you know but in every single thing including whether okay what could be more factual than whether when they there's there's something called The Weather Channel as on television it's 24 hour day whether really the weather for New Yorkers is really about clothes okay if you want to know the weather you want to know what to wear right I mean we're not farmers oh I bet I don't care how much rainfall there was I don't have any crops out there oh I care a coat a sweater which coat which sweater that's what I care about I'm not alone in this every single person in New York that's what they care about like we should have a New York weather channel that really is run by like fi T I don't care they wish tell you Doppler radar do you know what that is no I do I use either I love Doppler I don't know what a Doppler is they show it to you they show you the last sonogram of the you know of the weather so it basically tells you the gender of the weather and then we show you the 3:00 hour definitely likes what the weather was three hours ago what could be of less used to anyone and the weather three hours ago okay plus they are always wrong almost always wrong they are so often wrong that almost no one in New York thought we were really going to have a storm when Sandy came right oh man was citing all the other storms we didn't have don't you remember 1971 we put plywood up there was no storm don't you remember I was so astonished when my electricity went off I I was astonished as also especially since kind of turned it off right which was it meant no one felt sorry for me because my building wasn't washed away and also because I'm not the type that people ever have sympathy for but they shut my lights off I knew they shut them off because first they didn't then they went brighter than they didn't then they went brighter and I'm actually I'm alone in my apartment talking to the air which I imagined I had to be listening don't shut off the lights don't you then they shut them off the second thing went off I went to the sink I turned the water on no water you might not know this I didn't how does the water get to the ninth floor electric pumps I didn't realize this I thought I don't know what I thought I never really had to concern myself with it before and so I thought well they shut it up there moth they're gonna turn it on i sat there waiting for them to turn the lights on for a week no no the next no no lights I perhaps could live with that I doubt it though right you know I'm not really that type but no water is barbaric right so the second it was like I went where everyone in New York went but wrapper aside yeah which was not just the regular Upper East Side but it was a festival of wealth it was like the British Raj up there I stay with a friend of mine who went to buy food at this place we're so sponsored by food you could go either there to Cartier right and when she came back she said that a woman in line because of course they were stocking up on the Upper East Side because you never know what could happen um a woman in line yelled at the counterman um following Shaymin what do you mean you're out of celery aroma lawd so I said to my friend I hope the guy said I hope you know madam that's her people in Staten Island with no shall we rum a lot at all so the reason I was unprepared for the lights to go off is because the weathermen are always wrong and also because I should keep saying the lights are not going to go out Manhattan's are underground right you know um but I didn't expect how to turn them off you know I don't know why it's not that's been delightful my entire life you know during the time where headlights the kind of bill came so they managed I get the bill right house you know and I thought should I pay this bill or should I write are you kidding me on this bill I remember you once wrote an article about camping and I really think the first line was taxi no I never read an article by camping I was actually thought you were younger than this Jimmy I I was I don't I'm glad you brought this up I was on the cover of a magazine called outside yeah yes I had never heard of this magazine um but it's a magazine I think it's about camping I don't know if it's not this it may or may not still exist and they called me up and said we're here we have a great idea we're going to send this photographer no writer you're going to go camping and they're going to they're going to write about your camping experience and I said I'm not going camp right and they said it'll be so funny we're sending this guy's a great photographer this girl she's a fantastic writer you go camping you get and I said I'm not going to camp and then they said we'll put you on the cover of the magazine and so I had only ever been on the cover of one other magazine which was interview so I thought they're both really camping pehoe I thought it would be a kind of balance so I went camping and the guy the photographer who picked me up to take me to the camping place which was I think in Delaware and turned out to be proper to his uncle owned said that told everyone you can't believe it I went to pick up Fran to take her camping and she was standing in front of her building wearing a camels hair coat carrying a suitcase no one brings a suitcase camping apparently they bring like a knapsack which I don't have a knapsack so because I don't camp right and I don't have any camping clothes because I live in a city where Thomas hair coat is a very good thing to have so when camping for one night which was horrendous like we got to this place the guy barlas the guy was a great cook of course he bought all this great food he cooked this dinner outside on a fire and then he we had this like delicious dinner and then everything was done and then it was 6:30 in the afternoon and I said let's go to a movie except and he said we can't we're camping and I said I know but like 10 minutes down the highway that we got off of I saw a movie theater he said we can't work camping I said well let's not tell them we went to the movies because on the way up to the camping or down wherever Delaware's and the way to the camping place at a certain point I started hearing gunshots because it was deer hunting season and I grew up in New Jersey I know about deer hunting so I said we can't go camping because they're hunting deer and the one thing I know about deer hunters is they are not marksmen okay I'm afraid I'll be shot by a deer hunter so I made them stop at a deer hunting supply store of which there are many by the way to buy me these orange guesses course exactly so I was wearing these orange clothes so that after I was killed by a deer hunter he would have to say I thought she was a deer dressed in orange clothes or an escapee for maximum security yes after they did this whole thing I did this camping thing they call me said we have a problem the photograph that the guy took for the cover supposed to be horizontal and vertical or something like that so you have to go camping again so I said I'm not going camping again so what we did was the photograph on the cover which is me sitting next to a tent was taken a Washington Square Park before they tore it down before they centered the fountain is yeah um yeah so let's just see can that is it actually on the subject of bravery yes yes yes I slept in a tent I have such actually camping phobia I couldn't even sleep in a tent I did I also can't urinate outdoors I've tried I keep trying but I can't but I did ask where the bathroom was when we arrived yes yes to me camping is something that should be in the human history in the past like okay first we were fish then we came out of the ocean right then we lived in caves then in tents then in apartments right exactly why go backwards to tents yeah I mean worldwide most people in tents are not there deliberate headaches okay like when you see and the news people in tents it's usually a catastrophe has occurred right okay not a vacation right exactly it is a bit odd yes if you go into one apparently the millions of refugee camps are are in the world at the present moment there seemed to me to be more people living in tents than inside okay and this is caused again by human nature if you went to any of these places I don't care where in the world you said the tent you prefer this or how about an apartment or maybe all the people who are presently camping leaving their apartments empty could invite these people to live in their apartments while they're camping there's my solution to the refugee problem right exactly is there anything that you're loath to discuss publicly try me myself yeah yes I mean I don't often talk about myself and this will not be the time I'll start exactly speaking of which so you've had writer's block for a very long time has it has the symptoms changed at all has it gotten better worse or it's just you get used to everything yep yes I don't I don't really think about anymore other people do do you resist it anymore do or you just kind of do you accept it as a given now I'm not as accepting as you might imagine I wouldn't think you were I mean I don't have for instance I have to have finished books the second half finished book was an invention of my publisher to replace the other half finished book right and so I did actually say to my publisher at certain point at least two half-finished books to have finished books two halves is one whole right there unrelated to each other of course except by author you could actually publish a half and after they could turn it around right exactly this didn't go over that well I mean I owe them about it billion dollars but they seem to be doing fine thanks and they're not getting it for me because I don't have that right I think they should publish them actually yes well they don't would you I mean they believe they're gonna get the other half of both of them exactly what do you think the likelihood of that is you know what I think it's possible I think it's possible okay I mean I believe that that it is possible what will it take I don't know if I know what it was take this wouldn't have happened but people say why don't you write I would always say if I knew I would be writing do you think it's I mean i-i've in what I've always known about you is that your standard is incredibly high is it so high that you can't that's possible yeah sloth is also probably a more significant thing right because it is very hard oh I know right as you're aware right so it does really really hard yes and you know I've always thought that the only job that's harder than writing is coal mining okay the only people ever feel sorry for job-wise are miners no matter what call miners ever asked for enough that they ever get it I was yes right they should have it it is a actual it isn't actually a worse job than writing but but writing is very hard and I am very lazy I think of them as similar actually I really do it because I think when you write a novel you go down some hole for seven years and you come back and you're completely deformed and dirty and you can't you don't know anything about what's happening on the surface and you're broke and you have it is stress I think homeowners would not agree with you right now I should in theory go and visit but I know but I call my name is worse yet no I guess we can let's accept that yes I will again coal miners are braver yes that's true too okay because everyday they could die right exactly yes it writers just want to die okay they might actually die yeah it's more voluntary I mean the fact that right it's the fact that you think it might be preferable to be a homeowner that's how horrible writing is the only people who like to rate are bad writers okay they love to write all right yeah whenever anyone says I love to write you can be don't read the bank right yes okay we get the only good writer great writer I've ever known who loves to write is Toni Morrison and when I asked honey once why do you left to right she gave a great answer she said because otherwise you're stuck with life that's totally true yes on the other hand you know you could also read which is what I do so you know going back to the the pen of it all and we're going to take some questions from the audience but you know part of how this international festival started was the discussion about how few writers are translated from other languages into English and I'm curious are there writers writing in other languages that you particularly read or enjoy I am I know lingual okay so if they're not translated I don't know if I would like to write them but are there ones that have been translated are there writers whose core so we do you think I've oh yes of course you know I mean I certainly think that you know more writers should be translated because there aren't enough good ones in English right okay I mean there are too many writers there are too many books published but there are not enough good books so I think will be very good if all the books written in other languages were translated in English so then I could make the final decision right I do think that sure of course there should be more books translated and put in fact they're fewer you know there are every year there are fewer absolutely and in the u.s. in particular there there are fewer books translated than in any other country actually except for certain countries where nothing is translated or published yes and that and that is because they think that no one will buy them yeah and they probably are right no but hey but I don't think it's top I just want to keep it you know yes of course there should be more right translated but you know when people you know argue about which translation of a book is better I don't enter into this argument because I was thinking how do you know and if you've ever worked on translation of your own books like say with a Japanese gesture as I did you know after one day I said to her I give up because you are not asking me what is the word for this you're asking me what is the thought for them right exactly you know and so I mean they're probably our language is closer to English than Japanese but I found it to be just an impossible thing to do with yeah it's incredibly hard I also always get these very strange questions where they say things like when you write Oprah do you mean opera yes yes just like it already that's a very penetrating eyesight yeah that's the kind of thing we hope for from trashley exactly yes um let's see if we have questions I mean I have a thousand more but but I'm sure other people have them yes who do I like to read you know I'm the world's most promiscuous reader all right I am the of literature again there's lots of writers I like you know I don't usually like to say them because if people think that means that's your favorite writer I don't have a favorite writer only children have favorite writers you know or only people who've read very few books have ever writers or politicians they're politicians always have favorite writers you know Republicans favorite writer is always and Rand okay because Atlas Shrugged is the favorite novel of people who never read a novel before do you reread books i do i do reread books in fact just last night I made a note to myself reread The Scarlet Letter because someone made the same to me last night at dinner that all of American culture can be seen in the Scarlet Letter so this is the last time I read scart letter I was myself like in junior high school I sense I did also several years ago reread Ethan from and Silas Marner because these were two books that I hated when I was young by writers that I loved and I loved them when I reread them yeah you know and I actually said to a friend of mine I said I was the only person on the plain reading Silas Marner and she said to me you were the only person on any planet Silas Marner yeah yeah but I think that's true and I think it's interesting how books change or how you read them differently at different points in your life yes but they have to be really good to begin with yeah okay so that it isn't that Ethan from wasn't good when I first read it it's that I didn't understand that it was good right since I was a child yes um he said this might be a silly question and he was not wholly wrong which was since I said we shouldn't go back to tents does that mean we shouldn't go back to old literature that's not even in approaching an analogy no yes yes who polishes my boots and it and answer that there's only two places that I go to get my boots polished one is not there's no place downtown by the way and this is something that perhaps those of you recent graduates from college we can't find a job a shoeshine powder is much needed downtown there's one on the west side and one on the east side on the west side it's right and Broadway between 58th 59th and 58th I'm is called Dino shoe repairer fantastic shoe shine on the east side it's on 59th Street between Madison and park it's called Jim shoe repair both excellent places see this is this is why I thought bravery is that a good subject um yes have I ever actually written my I mean writing myself in as a candidate no I never have I vote for a reason not to amuse myself no I hardly ever voted for anyone who wins even though they're real candidates let alone writing myself and no I've never written myself in yes yes Oscar Wilde had both and how do I know this because I personally seen sql's original manuscripts and the first time I saw them there's almost no work on them okay I mean they're the one of the reason I like to look at a description is to see the work on them something that disappeared now because all you have is you know whatever is on a computer shipped hard drive yeah something so to see the work on a manuscript is really interesting and the Morgan Library owns many wild manuscripts something that would not be allowed now because they would not be in their native country an idiotic idea and we live in a moment where everyone keeps saying everything's global but everything is very tribal you know I mean I know you didn't ask this but I'm incredibly opposed to the idea that works of art have to stay in the country that they were created in it's idiotic and it's it's it's counter the times anyway the Morgan Library acquired these before these law and the first time I saw these well mana scripts it's appalling if you're a writer to see there's there's hardly any work on them there's more work on my thank-you notes and actually told this to Tony Morrison I said there's no work on the wild minutes Chris go look for them and she said they're not real manuscripts they can't date there are fair copies because you used to have to write it before it went to the printer but they in fact Warworld manuscripts and then when you think about wild especially you think they would almost have to be written that way you know the those thoughts occur to you and the fact that you know the elegance of the grammar things say that that was really an eight to The Times you know that's not specific to wild so but I think in these times in my own case for instance the talking comes easily the writing comes hard possibly the writing could come more easily if I didn't think about it so much but I don't know yes Prince does the opposite of wild anyway you know anyway he's the opposite of wild and you know not as funny okay she wants to know I watch them end end-edge trials did I watch the Anita Hill hearings which I did which I would not actually have thought of in relation to the Mendez trials but yes I did watch them they were I see many people who were too young to even know what this was what this was was Clarence Thomas one of the worst people in the history of the Supreme Court I mean one of the worst judges in their Supreme Court during his what they call those hearings confirmation hearings yes where I must say the Senate distinguished itself yes by yes I remember very vividly it was appalling that's what I thought of it it was appalling and the result was worse because you know the Supreme Court justices I don't know this for a fact but it is my belief that they live longer than anyone okay that is a fountain the Supreme Court is the Fountain of Youth you know you have only to be appointed the Supreme Court which is a lifetime appointment to ensure the fact that you will live to be 150 and Clarence Thomas was I think in his fifties it may be even younger when he was appointed to speak seemed court of course when they invented this people died at 42 and so he's going to be there you know for the right there's no one in this room who will outlive Clarence Thomas and who will make one horrific judgment after another okay so in a just world I need the hill would have been on the Supreme Court not him out of it so he and he's on and he's on for life and he's not that old no I mean he I mean most the the oldest per person I think I was from court now is Ginsburg yes yes and she's good she's really good we would like her to be the youngest person him to be Elvis person but that's not the way it works enter um he's heard me speak about gay marriage and now that's inevitable I believe we have gay marriage in New York now yes federally marriage laws are state laws you may know that he heard me speak about he how do I engage with friends who really want gay marriage um I have to explain to my bit I would not if we had voted on gay marriage I mean individually as opposed I would have voted for it I know people want it I just don't want it personally I'm not opposed to it I just don't want to personally I never wanted it I never understood it I still don't understand it I do not understand it you know even when it was really hard to be gay by which I mean illegal which everyone seems to have forgotten when it was illegal to be gay there were always two really good things about being gay you didn't have to get married and you don't have to go in the army these were always the two perks the rest of your life it would have been a total misery but these two fantastic things were yours without asking okay these are the two most confining institutions in the country marriage and the military these are the two things you won congratulations I personally listen to all the arguments for gay marriage and here's what I always heard as the arguments one was always that if your partner a word I loathe in this context by the way because to me a partner is like your father's brother he's in business within and who's stealing from him that's a partner okay so to me it lacks romance the word so if your people say but if my partner is in intensive care in the hospital I can visit her to me another perk of being gay to me think of me what you will but my response would be of course I would like nothing better than to spend the evening in intensive care but they won't let me show I'll be a part pity so to have to go to intensive care is something that I would prefer to avoid um and the other thing had to do with money you know there are 1 million like financial advantages to being married which are tax advantages um as a person who is absolutely irrevocably single I think it's unfair I don't think married people should get any tax advantages I don't care whether they're gay or straight you know I made I don't understand what this used it the reason we had these tax advantages and all these advantage for people were married was to promote marriage heterosexual marriage because people were supposed to stay married forever and take care of their children now no one stays married forever well which is why they let you have gay marriage by the way they only let people have things when the things and lost value okay so marriage used to be very valuable and there's no longer valuable so they let gay people have it you know being a doctor used to be a great profession now it's not so girls can be doctors you know I've made all the things that they let people have that they used to keep you from having if they were still very valuable they won't let you have them don't kid yourself now you're stuck with having to get married ibid to me I'm not interested but as long as it's not mandatory I think it's fine and I would have voted for it because I know that people wanted it you know and now you see already what you have is that other great corollary of marriage gay divorce which I don't know why that has to be formalized you know and this is all in the end about money I mean things like divorce are about money if you don't think so get divorced and so that's what I think about gay marriage she said I describe myself as lazy and so she wants to know what professor I'm procrastinating and my end the best way look I happen to feel that I have this feel to myself okay I'm a when it comes to progression ating I'm pretty much you know a legend uh-huh so um here's what can substitute for doing the work you're supposed to be doing anything okay anything you have total freedom of choice okay I don't know what you would enjoy doing more than working to me I would enjoy anything more than working so I really it really even something that seems unenjoyable seems more enjoyable than working I mean for instance I believe that writers tend to have the cleanest houses in New York okay and it isn't that cleaning is enjoyable it's just that it is if you compared to writing you know I mean I remember the first apartment I had that had a washing machine a friend of mine said oh no writers can have washing machines because you have a washing machine you're going to be why doing wash all the time instead of writing so writers also have very clean clothes so washing clothes that's my advice to reading is the best thing by the way that is mostly what I've done mostly you know I suppose if you ended up the hours of what I've done most of my life it is read I hope you heard this question well which was less of a question and more of a suggestion and the suggestion was that since I make snap judgments why don't I make snap judgments about my writing are you under the impression that I've deliberated about not writing I mean something to start out as a snap judgment and extend for decades because judgments that I make about writing about my writing are fairly severe I mean I do believe that's an aspect of it you know I mean I know that people think of me as harsh in my judgments and I think it's just having standards but I had I had the same I apply the same standards to myself why didn't I try the approach of Oscar Wilde who by the time he was my age was dead many years and and make the writing more like talking this has been suggested by many people including my editor that but I seem to be constitutionally unable to do this and that is probably because I am maybe more naturally a judge than a writer but you're it's you are correct that that would be a good tack to take if I was able to take that tack any other questions that are not suggestions to improve myself yes Hey because truthfully I'm not asking you questions now what this was it was a story I recounted in the movie it was a rally it was in the 70s I think it was in the seventh it was whenever was Jimmy Carter president in 70s yes okay Carter was a president and there was still the Cold War and Carter somehow convinced the Russians to I mean not Carter himself alone but during that administration to let some Jews out of Russia and this was a rally for Soviet jewelry at the UN outside the UN it was gigantic it was a quarter of a million people attended this thing it was run by Joe Papp Amanda used to run the Public Theater and he called and asked me to participate in this which was just to read letters to read letters from Russians who were called refuseniks I don't mean all Russians these Russians were called this maybe not my Russians but by us and there was a huge platform outside it was a quarter of a million people so Giganta buddies I personally as you can see I've never had that many people in the audience I found it exhilarating I looked at the price of this is fantastic Joe Papp told me you have to say something before you read this letter do you have something to say I said no I don't even say well say something say you know I had already having been on this platform already for about 20 minutes I already had fights with three rabbis okay because believe me if there's a rabbi within my you know sphere I will fight with him and I feel free to fight with rabbis you know I may feel the same way about other religious figures but I don't feel free to yell at them so I had already been fighting throughout by the rabbi who wanted me to get off the platform because I was wearing pants okay and this was before there were this many crazy Jews in Brooklyn believe me this was anyway so Joe Papp was just say something funniest thing before you read this thing almost everyone else involved in this were actors you know and they were very good at reading people's letters I'm not very good at this Gregory Peck was there look him up if you're too young and he was very good at doing it you know obviously much better acting in me so I just like I came out I didn't really I was unaware of these crazy Jews then you know the crazy Jews are the Jews that regular viewers have just make all the crazy Jews and the Gentiles call the Jewish community and so I didn't I thought they were just regular Jews like me you know or I thought they're maybe not even everyone was Jewish I thought maybe they were just all so people like believing that people should be able to leave Russia if they wanted to and so I said you know I'm certain that when I can't remember who is the head of Russia at the time it wasn't Putin yet and Putin is like that yes I made the rezident right I said I'm sure that when he sees this on television he sees all these people here he'll instantly comply with your request because I know that I for one would never want this many Jewish women angry at me and instead of like a few laughs I was booed off the stage by a quarter of a million crazy Jews who were so angry at me that I had to be taken out of the area by police there was no bombing involved this was the 70s this is before we had bombing here bombing here is really recent Obama is a comedian I say yes we still have that yes it would be good to substitute that don't you think for the other bombing yes I think that would be like I think that would be a good thing worldwide yes I'll let you know if it ever happens what advice do I have to young aspiring writers have you ever considered coal mining here is my main advice to young aspiring writers do not go to writing school it's a ridiculous idea it's an absurd idea did you go to writing school yes okay it's a ridiculous idea writing is a talent they cannot teach you how to write it's like going to tall school okay they cannot teach you how to write writing is not a profession it is a punishment from God okay so don't go to writing school do not go to writing school that is my number one advice do that is my number one through a thousand advice do not go to writing school instead spend those two years or however long it is reading the only thing they can teach you in school for writing which they don't and certainly not at that level is grammar and you started with the question about grammar and I will end with this question about grammar which is that when I was in public school in elementary school they taught you grammar I don't think they do anymore okay and the reason that you didn't learn it is because you can't really learn it you just have to memorize it it's not something to learn in the sense of because it's not a body of knowledge it's a set of rules so you have to memorize it which is boring okay and which children will not do anything boring anymore because they're so busy acquiring self-esteem that they can't spend based on nothing that I can say that they have that they can't be forced to memorizes so that even though I was forced to memorize it I was forced to lengthen level they could force you in public school so that is why for many years I had on my desk a list of people I knew who went to Catholic school because the only people who really know grammar are people who went to Catholic school and the reason for that is is because when they gave a wrong answer in Catholic school the nuns were led to hit them okay and that is the only way you can learn this so there is no other way because just a set of rules that makes no sense it's illogical and English grammar is exceptionally illogical you know that is why it's so hard whenever people criticize immigrants this country can you believe they don't speak English I always think I don't know how anyone can speak English truthfully because wet because when it is something you have to be taught from birth and you have to be taught of correctly and you have to hear correctly and you have to be corrected constantly the only way that that people really talk to children when I was a child went by people I mean parents and teachers was just to constantly tell them what to do okay and so that the reason that I believe I speak you know grammatically most of the time is simply because every time I open my mouth as a child when I said something wrong someone corrected me so that I actually do this to other people now you know I do it to the television you know I you know and it's amazing President Obama a highly educated person much more educated than I am very intelligent makes grammatical errors all the time and I know that is because his mother did not say when he said I instead of me she's not say me I say to the TV set to him all the time me i'm--yeah me if there's the most common mistakes that people make now and the reason I know that is because I was yelled at 1 million times you know so maybe we could since no one is able to get a job apparently maybe they could because I'm employed as people who go around correcting other people's former so maybe we should bring back the public's cold okay one is insufficient think we have time for one last question I truly don't know what you're asking me let's go for a different last question I I'm not objecting to your question I don't understand your question you've read them as our history you you are an excellent reader okay you are if you read them as our history you're an excellent reader if you're asking me in my opinion of the current art world I will say this that when I was young the entire art world fit in one restaurant literally in one restaurant okay so that now it's gigantic I mean by which I and now it's not called the art world it's called the art market okay and this is an absolutely correct use of the English language okay so it's a market you know I mean I subscribe to a magazine called art and auction okay I don't know what the word art is doing in this magazine okay so that and I'm very interested in this happening you know they're also more artists than it used to be okay they all go to art school okay it's a good gig now being an artist you know I mean I wish I thought of the scam when I was young so that there are more artists than ever before but just the way there are more writers however these things are talents that are randomly sprinkled among the populace there's probably always relatively the same number of talented people it's just that some people are luckier than others some people are lucky even in the timing of their lives you know and some errors are luckier than other errors if you ask me is this a fantastic era for the visual arts I would say it doesn't seem so to me I paid it seems to me that I have been looking at the same stuff basically and I'm talking about what passes for contemporary art for 35 years okay so that basically the art is old that's my objection to it is that it is old okay I made I am sick of looking at these Warhol's I am sick of looking at them they're not that good by the way okay they're really not very good I know you're not allowed to say this okay but there and it's banal to keep looking at the same stuff over and over again and the reason everyone loves this stuff is the reason they loved it from the beginning they loved it from the beginning because they recognized it okay they recognized it right away the second they saw it they said yes a brillo box it was a relief after Jackson Pollock for them to recognize something okay they what here's what people don't like abstraction in any way they don't like it because not everyone recognizes it the second they see it okay so that most of the things you see now you recognize the second you see them even if you're seeing them for the first time but unfortunately for me I'm seeing it for the millionth time so if they're any artists in the audience do something different do something new annoy me in a different way thank you very much good night thank you very much

Channel: PEN America

Views: 333,028

Keywords: fran lebowitz, am homes, martin scorcese, new york, public speaking, dialogue, literature, writers, pen america, pen world voices, 2013, documentary

Id: jBYzgFPLeGY

Length: 81min 34sec (4894 seconds)

Published: Mon May 13 2013