George Gilder: Forget Cloud Computing, Blockchain is the Future

more than a quarter of a century ago our guest today published a book about the future of technology called life after television quote the computer of the future will be as portable as your watch and as personal as your wallet it will recognize speech and navigate streets collect your mail and your news close quote our guest is worth listening to today in other words in large measure because he got so much right back then his new book life after Google George Gilder uncommon knowledge now [Music] welcome to uncommon knowledge I'm Peter Robinson one of the nation's most important public intellectuals for more than four decades now George Gilder is the author of 19 books his 1980 bestseller wealth and poverty made a fresh argument for capitalism and became the volume that Ronald Reagan quoted more than any other other Gilder works knowledge and power the scandal of money and life after television which I mentioned just a moment ago George Gilders newest book life after Google the fall of big data and the rise of the blockchain economy George welcome great to be here Peter is always George in life after Google you refer to Google the company that all of us use for search and Gmail and mapping you refer to Google this marvel as neo-marxist whatever do you mean by that well a lot of people don't really understand what Marxism was the key error of Marxism was Karl Marx's belief that the Industrial Revolution of the 19th century was a final human attainment a kind of eschaton that the problem of productivity and wealth creation had been solved forever the end of history of his day so to speak yeah and from then on the only challenge would be how to distribute wealth rather than how to create it well Google Marxism just repeats Karl Marx's error with the new technology Google believes that their AI artificial intelligence their machine learning their robotics their algorithmic biology their search and their solutions constitute a new eschaton a new final achievement of human beings it's even more grandiose than Karl's original vision and that the Google people imagine a singularity where the machines will eclipse human minds and allow all of the rest of us to retire on beaches and collect a guaranteed annual income the new fashion in Silicon Valley well Brennan Paige fly off with Elon Musk to some remote planet in a winner-take-all universe and I just I think this is delusional Google faces impossible business problems contradictions in their strategy flaws and their technology misunderstandings of the very computer science that underlie all their technology I think Google Google is having a nervous breakdown I just want to make sure I heard this right you just called Larry Page and Sergey Brin these geniuses who twenty years ago who in 20 years have gone from zero to a company with a market cap of 870 billion at market closed yesterday you just called them delusional I heard that right yep there are a lot of delusional brilliant Marxist in the world all right don't you encounter them all the time I mean they're there you are you live at Stanford before we will return to your attack on Google but first how did Google do it we just agree 19th the company's founded in 1998 so we go from zero non-existence 20 years ago and even two decades ago to a market cap of as I said between 800 and 900 billion depending on the market closed the day people listen to us which makes it the second most valuable Enterprise on the face of the planet Apple just crossed a trillion dollars in valuation so the question is how did they do it it is an accomplishment of some kind oh it's an absolutely fabulous accomplishment they they dominated this era this is the Google era we live in it but the next step is to upload your mind into the Google cloud and I said ball cat this next step in the Google system of the world you you spend some time in life after googled describing the dowels if I'm pronouncing that girl which is the huge Google Data Center up in Oregon in life after you Google you write of the diminishing returns of big data so let me understand if I let me make sure I understand at least one part of your argument correctly the delusions come next first there are certain conceal all most physical constraints we've reached the point now at which no matter how big your data center improvements in parsing data are only going to be incremental it's going to be difficult to get enough power it's going to be difficult to cool these machines adequately which is why Google's big centers up at The Dalles because there's a huge dam there which means cheap hydroelectric power and cold water for cooling so that's argument number one they're bumping into physical limitations is that correct I say this is a symbol the dowels and all their data centers parked like aluminum plant beside big bodies of water or near glaciers or various other means of cooling just like an industrial plant of the previous era and and I think that this cloud computing which was which was a great triumph for its time and dominated its time is now reaching the end of the line a great computer scientist named Gordon Bell ordained a proposition called Bell's law which is that every 10 years Moore's law which is the doubling of computer power every year yields hundreds of thousand fold rise in total computer capability and requires a completely new computer architecture I wrote about the cloud first I hailed the cloud and in order and wired in 2006 and and said that it would dominate the next Bell's law phase but it's now 12 years since 2006 and that Bell's law regime of cloud computing huge data centers all parked by Hut by bodies of water is coming to an end okay I just want to tide to make sure that I understand this I want to emphasize this because I think I'm right about it cloud computing I don't know who the genius was maybe I'm talking to him now who first conceived of the notion of the cloud because it puts in the mind of the ordinary user the sense that somehow or other computing has now become ethereal it just it's just up there it's not up there it's in big industrial scale operations at the dalles and Oregon and other so the 80 different sites around the world I think Google has now okay big data so the cloud isn't the cloud its factories essentially of huge computers that's correct yes all right you refer again let me quote life after Google Google is not just a company it is a system of the world that is a phrase that is important in this book Google is a system of the world what do you mean by that well a system of the I think the first sorted grade system of the world that unleash the miracles of the Industrial Age and British Empire and the previous era was Isaac Newton and he both developed calculus and key laws of Newtonian physics and then proceeded to establish as master the mint in Britain the gold standard and this together the calculus the physics the gold standard were really the pillars of the industrial era and Britain's amazing global dominance from a small island and and that was a great system of the world it was implicitly deterministic and and explain that term how do you mean deterministic because Newton Newton was was it was a Christian knew it was a Christian and believed in free will but his physics and his calculus implied a deterministic model unit that if you did this then this must happen that's right this accurate and requires that reaction right a hermetically-sealed system that always reproduces the same results with the same inputs a predictable scheme and this system of the world was essentially overthrown by kurt gödel the girdle is born in Austria he's an America comes to this country his dates are late 19th century to the middle of the 20th century is his great moment at age 23 or 4 was in 1930 when he addressed the great meeting at Konigsberg and Austria that was going to establish mathematics as a complete system that could explain everything implicitly if you had all the data it and you had the mathematical algorithm so you could predict the entire future from the past this was the great dream and and he permanently overthrew it was the girdles incompleteness theories showed that any logical system whatsoever is necessarily dependent upon propositions that can't be proven within the logical system and should and and in proving this he he really invented a kind of computer software system where all the propositions and variables were expressed in numbers so his proof that mathematics could not be coherent and completely consistent that it upended on outside propositions axioms was a major breakthrough and and and also established the computer age Turing Alan Turing then went on and took girdle's formula and transformed it into a universal computer architecture a Turing machine and Turing machines are also dependent on Oracle's outside the machine to program the location now Google says it as a system of the world where he is returning back to the deterministic realm and and with big data they can predict everything all the answers can be extracted from their aggregations of big data you're doing you're doing something that you do again and again in life after Google you're operating on two levels on one level you're talking about technology and kurt curdled in developing these incompleteness theorems in 19th in these working on it in the 20s and the cotton the big the big moment takes place in 30 is that corrected in I did 31 and 31 X okay and he develops mathematical tools on the way to proving his point he develops mathematical tools which form the basis of computer software language so that's the technological point that George Gilder is making but you are also always arguing about I won't say theology because you're not really taking on God but you are arguing the deep structure of reality what is reality really like and so there are pages here that make me scratch my head because you're talking about technology and math and that's hard for me and then there are pages that make my brain explode because you're talking about reality itself but I want to come back to this point girdle proved that there can be no human construct no human system of thought that does not rely on some reality outside itself that's right is that right that's correct okay okay and for theological interest good ol desperately feared that he might approved the existence of God he and Einstein used to walk together through the streets of Princeton discussing theology derived from these celebrations both nervous that they may have they may have been onto something even bigger than they I see all right that's book number 20 for you George but back to back to book number 19 one other point about Google that you make a short coming for Google is that it gives everything away for free and which of course I used I spent I sent ten emails this morning on Gmail for free I haven't started my research for the afternoon but I'll be using Google and it'll be for free yeah okay this is all wonderful as far as I can tell George Gilder in life after Google not only is free a lie but a price of zero signifies a return to the barter system or a morass that the human race left behind in the Stone Age well now I am confounded how can these this marvel of technology be dragging us back to the Stone Age well because of free there are two key points about free first of all it avoids the price system so it avoids liabilities to customers that you actually have to serve because the customers have paid you it avoids the requirement of security because who wants to steal something that's free it doesn't completely avoid the obligations of security but it it essentially greatly relieves the problems of constantly conducting secure transactions with customers to whom you owe something and it also prohibits learning because the key to capitalism is learning curves as I told you in my last meeting here wealth is knowledge and if wealth is knowledge economic growth is learning and one of the key instruments of learning and a capitalist system is the signal of prices and by giving away all its products for free Google avoids this precarious process of falsifiable learning that is the heart of capitalist growth so by giving away products for free they avoid the security challenge to a great extent they avoid direct reliabilities and responsibilities to real customers and they send they and they avoid the learning process that allows capitalist growth when you say they avoid the security problem the security problem you have in mind is what we all now feel every time we go on the web we're afraid of identity theft we're afraid of being hacked we get eat we get alerts from Google itself saying conquer you this user was that you who checked in and changed your password the feeling that we're naked before who knows unknown faceless enemy that's the security problem they're avoiding because if they give things away for free security patches are good enough that's the part that doesn't that's yes but the fact is security is not a video game security is an architecture and the existing computer architecture of which Google is the Paramount exponent is failing it's filling the internet with clutter it's failing with the smartphone 30% of your payments for smartphone services go to download ads that you don't want to see you really don't want these ads on your smart phones they are not ads they are minuses and only 0.06 percent of these smartphone ads are clicked on and according to survey is 50% of these clicks approximately are in error so only 0.03 percent of smartphone ads are actually desired and and this is and this is a catastrophe this is this is not a viable business and Google is running to come in to the end of the line in smartphone advertising it's trying to move from search where it it serves the rest of the Internet to solutions where Google is the answer man in the sky and it's AI with its increasing accumulation of big data can answer all your questions but that is that's where I make the charge of delusional State all right the new system of the world again life after Google the this very lack of concern with security will be Google's undoing for every other player on the net every other player on the net the lack of security is the most relevant threat to its current business model this problem will be solved so fundamental will security be to the new system that it's very name will be derived from it it will be the crypto Kazem explain that term the crypto chasm is refers to this amazing providential efflorescence of creativity that's erupted all around the world to supply a new architecture for the internet and indeed ultimately a new architecture for the entire world economy at a very time that the system of central banks with its five point one trillion dollars a day of currency trading that doesn't even arrive at settled currency values for significant currency values and the architecture of the internet which requires you to expose yourself strip naked virtually before the cameras in order to conduct a transaction you'd have to your passwords pins your usernames your last four numbers of your Social Security your mother's maiden name your first school your favorite pet your you know this your irises your DNA you know this method of of authenticating people to participate in Internet transactions is bankrupt they may imagine that this is a viable system but it isn't it is it is failing everyday and it's going to be replaced by the crypto - by the blockchain by a whole series of technologies deriving from the blockchain so but I want to use security as I'm quoting again security is not a procedure or mechanism it is an architecture the crypto Kazem we'll start by defining the ground state you don't build the building you build the foundation the ground state it is the ultimate non-random reality the ground state is you the ground state is you explain that well the ground state in the cryptic Azam is your your private key which validates you as your DNA identifies you it's this is this is no this isn't you're not over reaching for the sake of argument you are saying that in the crypto Kazem blockchain technology will permit us all to have some kind of educational ID which is as as individual to us and as undi cryptical as our DNA correct okay Wow all right and you better explain its and here I bracelet here I'm just going to hold the table with both hands you'd better explain for the layman I'll give you a short paragraph block changes what is blockchain make law understand watching is the new architecture new security architecture for the internet that this that allows you to keep your information to yourself and it distributes all the personal information all across the network just as human intelligence is distributed across the world and individual human brains it's not agglomerating and giant data clumps it's human intelligence is distributed the blockchain distributes personal data rather than concentrating it in one of the few big walled garden is Google like what concentrating it and and then forcing you to petition to the big centralized database for the right to be yourself on the internet it's it it's a distributed way of you keep your data to yourself and use whatever data you need to conduct a particular transaction but it's it's it's as it originated as a form of money that's going right but it's and it's often compared to cash because it seems to allow an yes but the but it's really better than cash it's it's a major step forward beyond cash because not only does it allow you to conduct anonymous transactions it also enables you to demonstrate your behavior and your transactions unimpeachably if you have to to the IRS to a prosecutor to Preet Bharara or whoever it may be you the blockchain gives you an immutable record that that allows you to document your behavior and and it it's always seemed to me that the key thing isn't really privacy isn't really as critical as being able to prove that you didn't do something that that a government it wants to charge you with doing you know that the ability to of attestation is an important advance that the blockchain offers both in third-world countries and and in the United States all right so you're you're limited claimed in life after Google is that we have a new technology coming along that will make use of my smart phone and my desktop and your smart phone and your desktop and distribute transactions and intelligence and in some ways meaning across everybody's smart phones and computers and and and it will make it will render Google's fantastically huge investment in these 80 different data centers it will render those beside the point very well we're very like those big abandoned of aluminum plants that you can see up the dowels okay that's the limited claim here's the larger claim that box chain blockchain can fix a lot of what's wrong with America life after Google blockchain technology will address the doldrums of centralization in security and sclerosis afflicting the current infirm nation economy okay now giveth how's that how's that IPOs are down this is the Peter Thiel argument that we're just not getting the innovation that it feels as though we should have right you know and how does blockchain jump-start that the whole economy well it's because blockchain corresponds with the reality of the world which is the ultimate thinking element is the human mind individual human minds each one different each one with a potential of its own which can make its own contribution and and blockchain is an answer to this cloud mind which I call sky computing which you describe so well with the computers and smartphones all around the world contributing their cycles as needed to perform supercomputer computations as required or 3d rendering from the internet that is having 3d experiences provided across the internet all from the skies open skies rather than from the clouds of Google Facebook and the rest of the Giants Apple and Amazon and the which are the biggest companies in the world and a tremendous achieve said I'm not I'm not first any kind of attacks on them on government regulation or whatever I don't think that that's the problem at all I think the problem is that is that they have a business plan and a technological solution that's inappropriate to a world full of individual human ma okay so here's your argument then your argument is the ultimate resource the base of it all is not any human constructs still less anything that has such a centralizing tendency as these huge data centers that we began by discussing your argument is no no no no it's the individual the individual is the resource and blockchain will empower individual human beings individual human beings and conditions of economic and political liberty our resources and blockchain will empower them that's right well-put that's that's I've been reading you for 35 years in it and it is already happening I mean yet you mentioned the IPO crisis you know the 90 percent drop in the number of IPOs the 50 percent shrinkage of the number of more than 50 percent 60 percent shrinkage of the number of public companies on the stock market this we're having a stock market boom while the number of companies shrinks drastically and new challengers don't rise up IPOs but a Teel fellow you mentioned Peter Thiel who was a pivotal figure in life after Google Peter Thiel has created these Peter the teal fellowship one of the first ones was the lyric boo Duren who established the theory am just five or six years ago which is a new blockchain based on Satoshi's Bitcoin blockchain but it improved and more generalized and he created the new blockchain a new global computer platform a new programming language called solidity a new currency to finance the new form of smart contracts which could be implemented on this new computer platform a new source of measurement for the value of the money energy consumption of the computer cycles required to implement the smart contracts a huge new compound enterprise that in the last 12 months has essentially solved the IPO problem with I SEOs that's enter that's the initial clean offer initial coin offerings initial came and offerings initial crypto offerings and and they've raised twenty billion dollars in less than twelve months for thousands of new companies many of them have failed many have gone bust just like the internet right absurd but this is a found way using a fluorescence that this this velorek boo Turin who I think is one of the great entrepreneurs of our history has accomplished in twelve months pretty much solved the IPO problem it's the Chinese are rebelling because crypto currencies are global and the Chinese are skittish about anything that allows the globalization of Chinese capital it's not completely controlled but anyway China is deeply involved in all these new cryptic cosmic developments George a special topic you touch on it as you talk more than you discuss it at some length and life after Google it's not a central point but it's a special topic artificial intelligence in life after Google you describe a 20-17 conference of technologists at Asilomar California quote they gathered at Asilomar to alert the world to the dire threat posed by well by themselves by Silicon Valley their computer technology artificial intelligence had gained such power and momentum that they now deemed it nothing less than a menace to mankind to the Googleplex intellectuals mathematics is essentially a doomsday machine close quote and they're wrong yeah they forgot girdle they just they they just don't understand their own technology it's it's it's sad but they don't okay well they imagine that that hold on they you're talking about Elon Musk and his buddies Larry Page and Sergey Brin the Googleplex actual musk essentially funded that is so our conference however now let me I see you and I raise you George I'm going to listen to this intellectual Henry Kissinger yeah writing in the Atlantic magazine this past spring quote here to Ford the technological advance that most altered the course of modern history was the invention of the printing press in the 15th century but now the world has experience in an even more sweeping technological revolution whose culmination may be a world relying on machines on governed by ethical or philosophical norms close quote now you're taking on Henry Kissinger go ahead it was my tutor at Harvard in the old days he was assigned to be my tutor I was something of a rebellious student that I never quiet even then second but I loved Henry is a great man and and he has absorbed the Google system of the world and he is wrong the artificial intelligence is a terrific extension of human intelligence it's it requires an Oracle just like any other machine extension it's still a tool it still must still requires anything held in a human hand in a certain sense yes and it in it in it in no way usurps the human brain that whole concept that somehow a machine can usurp the human mind and it out in excel the human mind no usually only if you say that the abacus or the calculator excels the human mind of course they do in certain functions but when garry kasparov competes with big blue gary is used in in 12 to 14 watts energy and as he and is not connected to anything beyond his own mind well big blue is using essentially gigawatts of energy connected to those big cloud data centers and you know it's it just isn't and and moreover they're addressing a deterministic problem and a deterministic problem can be solved by a machine but deterministic problems are interesting but irrelevant to information as Claude Shannon showed information is defined as surprise it's unexpected bits it's entropy as he called it and surprise is the essence of human creativity surprises in a machine is a breakdown it's bad news when your machine starts surprising you and in the way the Google people simulate creativity and machines is they introduce randomness to the machines and they they pretend that that is somehow simulating creativity but but randomness is - information they're subtracting information rather than adding it it's just like their ads are actually minuses their creative inputs into their machines are actually minuses as well all right so here's what we all have in the backs of our minds 2001 Space Odyssey in which Hal he takes over the spaceship open the pod bay doors hell I'm sorry Dave I'm afraid I can't do that what's the problem I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do it's a funny scene but it's a it's of course chilling and at that rate in those days it was clearly it was fiction which was why it was funny yeah but that's what everybody has in his mind that the machines will take over they'll start giving us orders you said you were taught by Henry Kissinger or you were supposed to have been taught by him another person you know well as Ray Kurzweil I do and who is at Google now and Ray Kurzweil wrote a book in 2005 entitled the singularity is near and he argues that machines would become so intelligent that the distinction between computers and humans would disappear hal would take over and you say the machines will never be that smart or you say it is in principle impossible it doesn't matter how smart they are yeah it's in principle impossible that machines do not do not essentially think they don't know anything there are systems of gates of dumb components they they lack this creativity which is epitomized in all the unexpected bits the the surprising results that human minds and imaginations can generate how come computers are deterministic they're machines and Ray wrote a book called how to create a mind it's a it's a brilliant exposition of how to make a good speech recognizer and and in that book he pretty much concludes that consciousness isn't really an issue consciousness is an emergent effect it's an epiphenomenon of these machine processes that computer scientists understand but this is just nonsense if you don't understand consciousness you don't understand thinking thinking doesn't produce consciousness consciousness compute produces thinking and all these computer scientists are trying to explain away consciousness but that's where we are that's where we live that's how we think that's that's the issue and to say oh well we don't know what consciousness is but our machines are going to compute so fast that it won't matter that that consciousness will emerge like one of their clouds I think is it's just it's just another fundamental vanity of the valley I've done it less questions George in your earlier book life after television published again in 1990 you predicted watches computers as small as watches speech recognition mapping navigation systems you got a lot right but you also predicted this was in some ways the fundamental argument of the book that as we went from broadcast television to the 500 channels of cable and now of course we have the essentially infinite channels of Netflix and YouTube and all the rest this direct streaming as we did that programming would no longer need to cater to the lowest common denominator denominator so we would not we would no longer all be watching claptrap like The Beverly Hillbillies you'd go online and you'd be able to pursue your interest and opera someone else would be studying calculus somebody else would be learning a language we would be enlightened we would be ennoble well that's true well some of that has happened yeah but you didn't tell us that porn was going to be absolutely pervasive you didn't tell us that I think I did tell you that porn would be in life after television I don't I think I mentioned that porn is is is pretty hard to escape but anyway okay so but but I was wrong I it was it was a wonderfully Optima I still remember I went through it in one reading I started it at lunchtime and I neglected my work for the rest of the day because in any event it was a wonderful book but there it didn't work out as happily now as one would have expected from reading that book father of children you're a father of children you have a grandchild we see the kid the kids have these phones in their hands so long that they attention span suffer family conversations here's Henry Kissinger again inundated via social media with the opinions of multitudes users are diverted from introspection these pressures weaken the fortitude required to develop and sustain convictions that can be implemented only by traveling a lonely road which is the essence of creativity close quote what do you do with this argument that didn't work out yeah technology has not ennoble Duss it's made us passive and uncreate 'iv and lonely well I think that's I think we were passive and creative and lonely before I think there's a certain illusion of a golden age that somehow we had privacy we had creativity we attained virtue in a different way than we do today I I'm sort of skeptical of the golden age idea but I'm also skeptical of the idea that this technology is the eschaton that it's the final thing that there's a blockchain AI oh oh yeah and all these regaleira of stuff that produced the effects that you're describing and I agree with the effects you're describing essentially but but I do believe that the blockchain and related cryptographic technologies it's part of a creative insurgency do are almost perfect answer to the problems that currently afflict that let me try they provide this distribution of intelligence and distribution of private rights and points of view that has been lost to some extent in the cloud let me try one more line of attack on an old friend who knows a thousand times more about all this than I do but it's a layman's attack okay and it's this in life after television published in 1990 and again I can see I can just remember what what an event it was to read that book it was wonderfully optimistic this is going to make things better well actually we have all the kludge that you were talking about the ads we don't want in it to all that we just discussed and now you write life after Google this is it blockchain is going to solve all the problems and so what about original sin what about we're stuck with this or what about I'm thinking that we you come you brush against theology and I know it interests you what about 20th century of theologian Jacque Mary tan who argued that his sin and redemption worked themselves out in history things are getting better but also worse at the same time and that is the human condition so even blockchain is another tool it will be morally neutral it'll have wonderful benefits but it may have significant costs I'm trying to get George Gilder to accept some piece of the tragic view of life well I I love to una Munoz the tragic view of life we're taking you Gasset was one of my favorite no answer for rice but and so I accept the tragic view of life we're all gonna die we're all watching won't solve that one but blockchain notes of that what blockchain won't solve many of the intrinsic torments of life and sin on this earth I readily acknowledge that blockchain is part of the public world where the great human adventures are conducted great new companies are launched the continued dynamism of human creativity is expressed and and what I'm arguing against is what Bill Buckley used to call eminent izing the eschaton imagining that some technology that you've come up with last week is the final technology that will end the human adventure that will subsume all our minds and in the clouds they governed by eight giant companies in China and the US and with some few nerds in Israel contributing all the new ideas this is this is the vision that I don't think is going to prevail I think the human adventure will continue after Google George Gilder author of life after Google thank you thank you I'm Peter Robinson for uncommon knowledge and the Hoover Institution thanks for joining us [Music]

Channel: Hoover Institution

Views: 486,153

Rating: 4.8475142 out of 5

Keywords: George Gilder, Life After Google, Google, Alan Turing, Etherium, Bitcoin, Blockchain, Gordon Bell, Technology, Big Data, Cloud Computing, Cryptocosm

Id: cidZRD3NzHg

Length: 48min 21sec (2901 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 24 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/joegetsome]

Hahaha for some reason "Valeric Buterin" got me tickled. Anyways, this guy is pretty woke when it comes to blockchain for being such an old fella.

[u/JohnnyLingoMusic]

this must be the oldest man alive today that understands how significant Ethereum may become. Im really surprised by this. I've talked to very successful young tech investors who are still not invested in Ethereum and/or don't realize how genius it is

[u/SuperNewk]

This guy knows what’s coming. He’s seen it all, listen to your elders. If we solved the IPO problem. For the good lord sweet baby Jesus hold your eth this gonna be insane

[u/okrim_cro]

- he has a point that google actualy is selling what nobody (users and googles clients) needs and wants (0.03% of intentional clicks) and it is a mistery to me how they managed that and how is that sustainable

[u/TigerBay]

This was actually a great watch. George is a smart guy. Loved his philosophical takes on consciousness and AI too...

I will forgive his Valeric Buterin.

[u/vsssk]

Uh.... maybe it's just me, but really got a lot of 'senile old man' coming across rather than 'good visionary about blockchain'. He dropped all the same talking points as anyone here would. I was really hoping for something with a profound perspective, but this wasn't it.

[u/2essy2killu]

To be fair, Ethereum is still cloud computing; hence not the traditional one.