. MARK: HELLO AMERICA, I'M MARK LEVIN. THIS IS "LIFE, LIBERTY & LEVIN." WE HAVE A GREAT GUEST, GEORGE GILDER, HOW ARE YOU? >> GREAT TO SEE YOU, MARK. MARK: I'VE READ YOU FOR YEARS, MARK, WE'VE NEVER MET. YOU ATTENDED HARVARD AND YOU STILL ARE SUCCESSFUL. THAT'S A GOOD THING. >> I WASN'T SUCCESSFUL AT HARVARD. MARK: YEAH, YOU PIONEERED THE FORMULATION OF SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS WHEN YOU SERVED AS CHAIRMAN OF THE INSTITUTE'S ECONOMIC ROUNDTABLE. PROGRAM DIRECTOR FOR THE MANHATTAN INSTITUTE, YOU'RE THE AUTHOR OF MEN IN MARRIAGE. VISIBLE MAN. WEALTH AND POVERTY, WHICH WAS A BIG BOOK THAT HAD A BIG INFLUENCE ON ME. THE SPIRIT OF ENTERPRISE. MICROCOSM. TELECOSM. AND THE SILICON EYE. AND NOW YOUR NEWEST BECOME, LIFE AFTER GOOGLE, THE FALL OF BIG DATA AND THE RISE OF THE BLOCKCHAIN ECONOMY. A LOT TO UNRAVEL HERE. LET'S GET STARTED THIS WAY. CAPITALISM VERSUS SOCIALISM. EXPLAIN. >> WELL, CAPITALISM IS -- DERIVES FROM THE LATIN WORD FOR HEAD, KAPUT, AND CAPITALISM IS THE MIND-BASED SYSTEM AND THE KEY CHARACTERISTIC OF THE HUMAN MIND IS THAT WE'RE CREATIVE, AND AS ALBERT HIRSCHMAN, THE PRINCETON ECONOMIST ONCE PUT IT, OF CREATIVITY ALWAYS COMES AS A SURPRISE TO US, AND IF IT DIDN'T, PLANNING WOULD PREVAIL AND SOCIALISM WOULD WORK. CREATIVITY IS THE FOUNDATION OF CAPITALISM. AND THIS IS -- AND SOCIALISM IS BASED ON PLANNING. IT'S BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE'D ALREADY KNOW ALL WE NEED TO KNOW IN ORDER TO PLAN OUR FUTURE, AND SO IT LEADS TO TYRANNY, AND THAT'S REALLY THE DIFFERENCE. LIBERTY VERSUS TYRANNY AS SOMEONE ONCE PUT IT. MARK: ISN'T THIS THE GENERAL PROBLEM WITH PROGRESSIVISM, ACROSS THE BOARD. THAT IS THEY THINK THEY KNOW ALL THEY NEED TO KNOW, AND NOW IT'S JUST A MATTER OF REDISTRIBUTING IDEAS, REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH, REDISTRIBUTING. ISN'T THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM, THAT'S EASY FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE THE FUTURE IS DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND. >> THE FUTURE IS UNPREDICTABLE AND IN ORDER TO DEAL WITH IT SUCCESSFULLY, YOU'LL HAVE TO LEARN, AND LEARNING HAS A LOT OF CONSTRAINTS. ECONOMIC GROWTH IS THE INCREASE OF KNOWLEDGE AND THE INCREASE OF KNOWLEDGE IS LEARNING, AND THE MOST WIDELY DOCUMENTED PHENOMENON IN ALL BUSINESS IS CALLED THE LEARNING CURVE, WITH EVERY DOUBLING OF TOTAL SALES, YOU GET A 20-30% DROP IN PRICES OR IN COSTS. AND THIS DROP IN COSTS IS EVIDENT ACROSS ALL INDUSTRIES. DOCUMENTED BY -- OF THE BAIN AND COMPANY AND THE BOSTON CONSULTING GROUP AND ALL THESE LEARNING CURVE-BASE CONSULTANCIES. LEARNING IS THE HEART OF CAPITALISM. LEARNING IS FINDING OUT THINGS YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW. AND THAT DEPENDS ON OPENNESS TO CREATIVITY, TO SURPRISE, AND SURPRISE IS REALLY CRUCIAL TO CAPITALISM. YOU CAN'T PREDICT PRODUCTS OF A REALLY CREATIVE PROCESS. MARK: SO WHEN THE GOVERNMENT GETS IN THE BUSINESS OF REGULATING THAT, OF REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH, OF PUNISHING SOME BUSINESSES, SUBSIDIZING OTHER BUSINESSES, AM I CORRECT IN HEARING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IT'S AN ATTACK ON MANY THINGS BUT ESPECIALLY KNOWLEDGE. >> IF YOU -- A GOVERNMENT GUARANTEE PROHIBITS LEARNING AND THUS PROHIBITS ECONOMIC GROWTH. ALL ECONOMIC GROWTH IS FUNDAMENTALLY LEARNING. ALL WEALTH IS FUNDAMENTALLY KNOWLEDGE, AS THOMAS SOLE OBSERVED, THE NEANDERTHAL IN HIS CAVE HAD ALL THE PHYSICAL RESOURCES WE HAVE TODAY. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUR AGE AND THE STONE AGE IS ENTIRELY THE GROWTH OF KNOWLEDGE, AND THE GROWTH OF KNOWLEDGE IS LEARNING, AND THAT MEANS ECONOMIC GROWTH IS PRIMARILY LEARNING, AND LEARNING CAN'T BE GUARANTEED. LEARNING IS FINDING OUT THINGS YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW. SO ANY GUARANTEE PROHIBITS LEARNING, AND THUS PROHIBITS GROWTH. MARK: IS NOT THE GRAND IRONY, THEN, THAT THE PROGRESSIVE MIND-SET CLAIMS THAT THEIR DECISIONS ARE BASED ON SCIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE, WHEN, IN FACT, IT'S NOT BASED ON SCIENCE OR KNOWLEDGE, IT'S BASED ON IDEOLOGY? >> DEFINITELY BASED ON DOCTRINE, AND DOGMA. IT'S REALLY -- IN MY NEW BOOK LIFE AFTER GOOGLE, I DO A CRITICISM OF WHAT I CALL GOOGLE MARXISM. MARK: WHAT IS GOOGLE MARXISM. >> MARX, HIS GREAT ERROR, REAL MISTAKE, WAS TO IMAGINE THAT THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION OF THE 19th CENTURY, ALL THOSE RAILWAYS AND DARK SATANIC MILLS AND TURBINES AND THE BEGINNING OF ELECTRICITY REPRESENTED THE FINAL HUMAN ACHIEVEMENT IN PRODUCTIVITY. SO IN THE FUTURE, WHAT WOULD MATTER IS NOT THE CREATION OF WEALTH BUT THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. GOOGLE COMES BACK TODAY AND SAYS THAT IT'S SEARCH ENGINES, IT'S MACHINE LEARNING, IT'S ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, IT'S ROBOTICS, IT'S BIOTECH. IT'S THE ULTIMATE HUMAN ATTAINMENT, AND IN THE FUTURE, MOST OF US WILL BE ABLE TO RETIRE, TO BEACHES WHILE SERGEI BRYNN AND LARRY PAGE OF GOOGLE FLY OFF TO REMOTE PLANETS WITH ELON MUSK IN A WINNER-TAKE-ALL UNIVERSE. AND THIS IS A BELIEF THAT BILL BUCKLEY USED TO CALL IMMINENTIZING THE ESKATON, FINAL THINGS, FINAL DAYS, AND EACH GENERATION OF TECHNOLOGIES IMAGINE THEIR TECHNOLOGICAL VISION, WHETHER IT'S RAILROADS OR SPACEFLIGHT OR ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS THE FINAL ATTAINMENT, AND THIS IS REALLY WHAT SOCIALISM IS ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT SAYING THAT WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS ALL WE'RE GOING TO GET, THAT WE KNOW AS MUCH AS WE NEED TO KNOW TO PLAN THE ENTIRE FUTURE, AND THAT IS FUNDAMENTALLY HOSTILE TO HUMAN CREATIVITY. MARK: THIS MIND-SET, THIS GOOGLE MARXISM, IT CUTS ACROSS ALL THESE PLATFORMS OR DOES IT? FACEBOOK, TWITTER, HOW ABOUT THE SILICON VALLEY? YOU'VE REFERENCED THAT IN THE PAST AS, I THINK, SILICON VALLEY MARXISM, ISN'T THAT RIGHT? >> THERE ARE A LOT OF PHILOSOPHERS AND PHILOSOPHER KINGS IN SILICON VALLEY. AND WHEN THEY PRONOUNCE ON PUBLIC ISSUES, THEY IMAGINE THAT THEIR TECHNOLOGY IS AN ESCATTON, AN ULTIMATE THING AND USURPS HUMAN MINDS. MY FRIEND RAY KERSWHILE INTRODUCED THE CONCEPT OF SINGULARITY, THE MOMENT WHEN OUR COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY WOULD EXCEED HUMAN MINDS ON ALL DIMENSIONS, AND AT THAT POINT, THE TECHNOLOGY WOULD PRODUCE NEW MACHINES IN A CASCADE OF INVENTIONS THAT LEAVE HUMANS FAR BEHIND. MARK: IS THAT POSSIBLE? >> NO. MARK: WHY? >> BECAUSE THIS ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS A MACHINE. AND REMEMBER, I STRESSED SURPRISE. MACHINES, IF MACHINES SURPRISED YOU, THEY PROBABLY BREAKING DOWN. MACHINES ARE REALLY DETERMINISTIC ALMOST BY DEFINITION, AND DETERMINISM IN INFORMATION THEORY, WHICH UNDERLIES ALL OF SILICON VALLEY, INFORMATION IS WHAT'S NOT DETERMINED BY THE MACHINE. INFORMATION IS THE CREATIVITY OF CAPITALISM. MARK: SO MACHINES HAVE MASTERS CALLED HUMAN BEINGS. >> MACHINES HAVE MASTERS. CURT GIRDLE PROVED IN 1951 THAT ANY LOGICAL SCHEME, INCLUDING A COMPUTER, ANYTHING, IS NECESSARILY DEPENDENT UPON AXIOMS OUTSIDE THE BOX. WHAT'S INSIDE THE BOX IS THE MACHINE, BUT ANY MACHINE IS NECESSARILY DEPENDENT ON WHAT ALAN TURIN CALLED AN ORACLE. A SOURCE OF CREATIVITY, SURPRISE, OUTSIDE THE BOX. MARK: CAN MACHINES HAVE JUDGMENT? >> NO, NOT REALLY. THEY CAN REPEAT OR IMITATE PROCESSES OF JUDGMENT SUPPLIED TO THEM BY HUMAN BEINGS, BUT EVERY SYMBOL THAT'S EMPLOYED IN THE MACHINE HAS TO BE DEFINED BY A HUMAN INTERPRETER, AND SO, SO THE WHOLE IDEA THAT THESE MACHINES SHUFFLING SYMBOLS ACTUALLY HAVE MEANING WITHOUT HUMAN PROVIDERS IS ITSELF DELUSIONAL, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IRONIC THAT ALL THESE BRILLIANT COMPUTER SCIENTISTS OF SILICON VALLEY HAVE LOST TRAFFIC THE VERY ESSENCE OF THEIR SCIENCE. THE ESSENCE OF THEIR SCIENCE WAS BEGUN BY TURIN AND GERTEL AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE REFUTED THESE ORIGINAL INSIGHTS WHICH NECESSARILY MAKE COMPUTERS DEPENDENT ON HUMAN INPUTS. MARK: SO IF WE UNDERSTAND TECHNOLOGY, MACROTECHNOLOGY, WE HAVE REALLY NOTHING TO FEAR, DO WE? >> NO, THIS IS JUST CONTINUED EVOLUTION OF THE ECONOMY. IT'S NOT AS BIG A CHANGE AT ALL AS BETWEEN AGRICULTURE AND FACTORIES IN THE 19th CENTURY. THIS COMPLETE TRANSFORMATION OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY WITH THE FIRST MACHINES OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, EXCEEDED IN IMPACT AND DRAMA THIS INTRODUCTION OF ROBOTICS, WHICH IS JUST KIND OF AN EXTENSION OF ALL THE EXISTING ROBOTS THAT ARE -- RUN OUR EXISTING FACTORIES. IT JUST -- AND -- BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, IT ISN'T -- IT IS EXCITING, THESE NEW MACHINES THAT ARE BEING GENERATED, AND THEY WILL, LIKE ALL PREVIOUS MACHINES INCREASE EMPLOYMENT. HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT EMPLOYED BECAUSE THEY'RE UNPRODUCTIVE. THEY'RE EMPLOYED BECAUSE THEY ARE PRODUCTIVE. AND SO MACHINES THAT RENDER HUMAN BEINGS MORE PRODUCTIVE RENDER THEM MORE EMPLOYABLE, NOT LESS EMPLOYABLE. THE FALLACY THAT THE A.I. IS GOING TO DESTROY JOBS. MARK: WHAT'S A.I.? >> ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, MACHINE LEARNING, IS GOING TO DESTROY JOBS. EVERYBODY BELIEVES THAT. IT'S NONSENSE. ALL SUCH MACHINES ENHANCE HUMAN CAPABILITIES, AND THUS, MAKE HUMANS MORE EMPLOYABLE AND BETTER JOBS AND MORE EXCITING JOBS AND SAFER JOBS. MARK: AND IMPROVE LIFESTYLES. >> PARDON? MARK: AND IMPROVE LIFESTYLES. >> OF COURSE, IN A STEADY EXPANSION IS OF KNOWLEDGE AND WEALTH. MARK: AND, OF COURSE, WHO SERVICES THESE MACHINES? YOU NEED ENGINEERS, YOU NEED MECHANICS, YOU NEED WHATEVER, YOU NEED PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP SOFTWARE. PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP HARDWARE AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. WHEN WE COME BACK, I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING ABOUT CRYPTOCOSM. THIS IS A BIG WORD THAT HAS A LOT OF MEANING, AND YOU'RE TELLING ME, BEFORE WE CAME ON THE PROGRAM AND ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN YOUR BOOK IS GOOGLE WILL BE ONE DAY RATHER PASSE, IN FACT, THERE'S GOING TO BE TECHNOLOGY THAT LEAPFROGS IT AND FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND THE REST OF THEM. THIS IS FASCINATING. >>> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, DON'T FORGET, ALMOST EVERY WEEK NIGHT YOU CAN SIGN ME UP ON LEVIN TV,
