Generations-- with Raymond Woodward and Matt Woodward

welcome everyone that is joining us live on Facebook here just a few moments we will be joined by Pastor Raymond Woodward and student pastor Matt Woodward of CCC in New Brunswick Canada Fredericton New Brunswick Canada and it's going to be such a great night and we have somebody joining in with us now Matthew Woodward it's coming on now and pastor Raymond Woodward has just joined us the theme for this that the Lord gave me a few a few weeks ago was Acts 239 and that is that this promise is for generations and as we've begun this we've had a vast generational panelists and it's been so great and tonight I am so very honored to first welcome brother Raymond Woodward it is such an honor to have you on generations with us tonight thank you brother Dylan it's an honor to be here yes sir and then joining alongside him is his son brother Matthew Woodward and he is the student pastor at Capital Community Church and again it is such an honor to have you here with us tonight as well yeah it's a great to be here and I want to thank you for hosting this you know the government doesn't really allow my dad now to be that close together so thank you for allowing us the opportunity to hang out tonight to connect reconnect family right you know that's yeah that's great again this is called generations and we've been doing this now this is our fourth session and it's just about having different viewpoints from different generations on subjects that are very pertinent to this time and it is such an honor to have both of you here I had the pleasure of getting to spend some time with brother Woodward by the mat Woodward in Fredericton few months ago and they they had a little pity on single young evangelists and allowed me to come and preach at their amazing church and just got to connect with them and really get to know them and I know that tonight we're gonna be very blessed by their input and the things that they have to say about the season that we are in and where we are as the church so with that I would like to go ahead and get started with our very first question but before that for the Matt Woodward would you mind just starting us off with prayer for sure why don't we all just say a word of prayer together wherever you're watching from lord thank you so much for the time that we have together here tonight and lord I pray that some of the conversation we have that it would bless somebody that it would bring some enlightenment some instruction perhaps and God we pray that everything that we do that'll bring you glory that would be marked by your presence and Jesus we just pray that you'd be with us we ask it in Jesus name Amen amen amen I want to go ahead and direct this first question to you by the would word and that is this during this pandemic where do you feel that the church stands as a whole where do you feel like we are as a body well that's a that's a great question you know as a pastor I can speak to the local church setting really when this pandemic started one of the first things that hit me was the whole idea of the church ministering in the Bible it says Greek the church that is in their house and I think God has kind of put us all in the secret place I think the Lord has kind of caused us to reevaluate some of the things that we were doing and how you know the there's pluses and minuses of course we're all anxious to get back to our buildings and get back to what we normally do and there's nothing wrong with what we normally do we live in New Brunswick Canada we have snow every year we need Bill that's not a bad thing so that's good but I said to the church a few weeks ago you know this causes us to say okay is my home version of Christianity the same as my church building version of Christianity because if you've lost it with God during this time if you're not praying reading the word or whatever because you're not you know going to service every week if you're not worshiping God if you're you know if you're binging on Netflix and not touching your Bible that's a real challenge but I think so that's the church answer for individual Saints because that's our primary responsibility but I think the the overarching answer for the church at large is that I think God has used this time I was talking to our friend pastored you brother woodward you cut out there just a little bit while his internet is catching up with us just an incredible story brother woodward we lost you there just for a second the last thing we heard is you were talking with a friend oh okay pastor justin mckenzie we had the privilege of sending him to Halifax Nova Scotia they planted a church and then later amalgamated with another existing congregation a smaller number of people that had a building so it's been a real success story but they had no online presence at all basically they had a camera stuck at the back of the church it was not a great recording and they've really upped their game with online stuff so many churches across the Apostolic movement have and so I think there's some long lasting very positive developments for the church at large we got churches that were never online that are now going to be online every week we've got churches that had really never considered what they were doing to reach into neighborhoods and homes that are doing that so I think the church as a whole is its overall it's going to be positive but I do think we have to keep an eye on the church local because that's our individual responsibility as pastors and leaders that we have to make sure that we don't lose people in the cracks because this is a wonderful time for everybody this core you know I don't think anybody's losing it with God that's a core member their disciple their prayerful they support their church it's wonderful our finances haven't gone down they've gone up I would say you know engagement in our services online obviously is off the charts Matt could comment more on that but but I think the core is fine but we have fringe people not discipled not committed yet my concern is for some of them you know we've been now two months without even the ability to do a parking lot service together that just came online today that we're gonna be able to do a service where we can pull the whole church into the parking lot but it's been two months with online only so that's major so I think it's positive and negative I think that's where we are so breeding you know one of the things you're mentioning is you know this has forced a lot of churches to grow and an old saying that net you know necessity is the mother of invention and this has causing a lot of us to get out of the box and do things maybe that we had on the checklist but it was lower down and now we're just striking that checklist brother Matt would or is there anything you would like to add on to that question um you know I everything that my dad said I will say locally you know he he said I could comment on the online presence you know our numbers went up by about fivefold for the first month on video views and you know like in a one month period and this is you know small potatoes in the grand scheme of YouTube I would say but we had a million or one point 1 million views in a 28 day span on our channel and I think it's just because there's such a consumption demand at this point people or were sitting at home and you know slowly we're starting to get back into the swing of things and going back to work but you know I I heard it said one time like your online presence as a church and early I guess this would apply to any business it's really like your front porch nobody comes to a church typically at least in this day and age without first checking it out online maybe watching a service or whatever so you know I was on a conference call today with a few other ministry friends and you know they they made that statement like nobody's coming to our church even before the pandemic without checking at your church so you know I think this pandemic is causing all kinds of churches and ministers and whatever to give their front porch a really nice coat of paint and bring it up to speed and and again as my dad said those those effects are gonna last well into the future right so we're really taking the current that's causing us to change so much we're channeling it I think that that's good and I just I just want to chime in and say there was one passage that really when this all came to be that really kind of stuck out to me and that was the persecution of the church and I know we're not being persecuted that's not the point I want to make unlike what some people may think that's my opinion but you know the persecution ax7 the stoning of Stephen it caused the church to get out of their comfort zone Jerusalem and and fulfill what Jesus said in acts 1:8 you know you flip to acts 8 and 1 and they went to the places that he said to go that they had not yet gone to Judea and Samaria and beyond so the inconvenience of the persecution and the disbursement nobody liked that but ultimately it caused the gospel to go far beyond what it had up to that point so I kind of feel like we're in that same sort of a of a season and I think that the gospel is gonna reach way further than it would have that's what I would like to chummy with you know I agree one of the things my uncle Mark has said quite a bit he said if the Apostle Paul was alive today you know he would be all over Facebook Instagram and Twitter you know doing anything he could do to get it out on to any any platform he could get this gospel out on and you know really would word you had mentioned talking about possibly some of the fringe sayings so I want to ask you this question kind of hinging onto that first question do you feel that there are churches that are taking this on in a healthy manner where they are doing things or is there advice that you could give to somebody on how to help those those fringe Saints that are that are based barely there in in the first plane third they're just starting to be discipled or they were just now starting to get their feet in the water what advice would you give to a pastor on to those things well I think we've got to do our best to try to contact them like you know we've got a couple that in our church that look after Jeremy and Nicole look after multicultural ministry so you know they're trying to keep in touch with some of those folks that you know that have come through that ministry they're not discipled yet for a major part some of them have large families and we can't get to them right now you know we're not allowed they're not allowed to touch base with us and Canada has been hit with a lot especially some of the restrictions on gathering even more so than what the states has experienced so that's been a very frustrating thing for us but we have had people calling 'he's like some of our seniors that are not even online in this day and age that's hard for our age to believe in your age especially but we've got a few people that aren't even online we've been calling them you know having people touch base I've been really proud of a few of our folks that have really taken it on themselves to you know touch base with people that are sick at home we've had people organized like you know drive-by prayer meetings in their yard you can't go near them but we can go at least close to them and pray we've had people you know just checking in on people so I've been really proud of some of our folks but the reality is I think we need to be ready I've heard a lot of talk and I agree with this and I've said it myself I've heard a lot of talk about you know the church is gonna just be so excited to get back together and we're gonna just surge forward with revival and harvest and I think that's true but I think it's part of the story not a hundred percent of the story even if it's 90 percent of the story I think we're still gonna have to do a little bit of makeup work remedial work trying to get some people that were on the fringe not discipled yet back engaged and then every church you know we certainly have people that have been around for a long time I've said this over the last few weeks you know this has provided them a perfect excuse because they were in the habit already of sitting at home on the couch in their sweatpants watching service online now everybody's doing it and they feel like they're just totally justified this has been a godsend to them they think this is wonderful and and in some cases we've got a private this has been set up since this all happened for us a private Facebook group that some of our members are in we didn't have that before it's been a good thing we can touch base quickly and and it's social and it's wonderful but we've seen two or three people that I mean they were marginal at the best all of a sudden they're spiritual Giants their posts in Scripture they're exhort and everybody they're telling everybody they're there they're oh it's it's amazing how revived they can be as long as they don't have to come to church so that percentage of the church we're back to the same issue with them you know we're gonna have to work on them to just get them to come to church but I don't think that's going to be the majority by any case but I think we have to have a balanced approach we think it's going to be great when we all get back together but let's not drop people through the cracks yeah and and I would just say like you know I did an interview for our upcoming youth convention with Mark Brown who is supposed to be here in person but suffice to do it digitally but he made a statement this pandemic you know whether you're a student or whether you're any age you're gonna come out of this quarantine season either more carnal or more consecrated and we all know that you know carnality is default mode so you know there are gonna be those that come out of this with some they're gonna kind of develop some patterns that will have to be broken so I do agree you know it sounds like some people are speculating the economy is gonna be this major vite it's gonna serve back I think that there's gonna be some of that too but you know I agree there's gonna be some work and so maybe some we're going to help people maybe come out of those habits and kind of reform some other better habits I think in the end we can be stronger because of it great and that's so great because you know I've heard a lot of talk and and like you are all saying it's it's very true we're gonna come out of this stronger come out of this we're gonna have revival but I think it's really important that you're also wanting to shed light on the other side of that and that is that there are some people that are becoming weaker because of this and that we need to be ready and maybe even have some things in place you know when we get back to make sure that that those people are gonna make it because you know we can't lose sheep in this and and we have to be able to take care and do whatever we can do in this to take care of both sides of the coin the surge of revival and those that were a part of the church but maybe not fully committed that are gonna come back struggling that's so great and with that you know that really leads me into my next question because we just talked about where we feel the church is at and you guys both answered that so greatly so brother Matt would I want to ask you this question what direction when we get back or right now where do you feel that we're going where are we headed in this season yeah so um on March the 8th that was our last day Sunday that we had everybody in the building for service we did have a midweek Bible study you service and then we had a prayer meme I believe later that same week but that was our last Sunday I had the opportunity to preset Sunday morning here at the church and I don't know I don't know why particularly I guess maybe in hindsight I it's because maybe God was getting our church or I guess everybody ready for this season but um I preached a message out of Ruth chapter 1 it's never too late to come home and just how Naomi she heard that God was blessing in Judah again that there was bread back in in Bethlehem in the house of bread and she had been gone on a journey following her husband Elimelech and whatever and they had been in Moab but just this whole idea and that using that narrative to just encourage a backslider to come home and that morning I remember saying you know you could go back and see it on the recording that you know yes this is for somebody that's here in the building but I really felt and I said it I think this is for somebody that's watching I feel like that via the archive whatever that this is gonna reach far beyond just this one hour window so you know lo and behold I think it was five days later we we go down to the government restricted the size of the crowds and and the following Sunday on the 15th we we had just a small music team and and and I preached that Sunday morning again the next Sunday and you know it was only online and and for different reasons I said the same thing of course this is going two people online exclusively and this is gonna reach far beyond just this building and I preached it's it's never too late to come home and talked about how God instituted the second Passover and numbers nine for those that had been wandering so I I said all that to say this I really feel like God has given some product goals and some backsliders the opportunity to pause that same conference call I was on earlier today with a few minister ministry friends I think there was three stories and testimonies one a brother that hasn't served God for 15 years watched his brother preach in Ottawa and called his brother his brother preach about prodigal is coming home call his brother and we've been and reaching out to him another one his grandfather who doesn't serve God or maybe isn't a different denomination or something called crying's I've been watching your church for the past month so I really think that God has given not just the church but people beyond the church the opportunity when sports are shut down movie theaters are shut down I mean they've delayed the release of films and all this kind of stuff and people are looking at at the church and and I really believe personally that and I've heard so many prophecies before the pandemic over the years about a revival of protocols and and I just I just feel like that is going to be a reality I feel like yes there's gonna be maintenance as we've already said with some people and we're gonna have to help people but I really feel like there's gonna be a lot that come out of this that come back to God as a result of this when we get to the other side of the pandemic right so that's kind of I really feel like that's the direction that the church is going I've heard several people comment on that and I really the cusp of this one's beginning well it's so great and I really how you opened with that I think it's just so true you know that there's gonna be bread back here you know and the people are gonna be hungry to get back and be fed and they're gonna know where to come yeah and you know the end of that story of course she said you know don't call me Naomi call me Mara call me bitter life has been bitter and you know I said to the church and and I would say to any he backslider that may be watching this even you know nowhere in the rest of the Book of Ruth you see anybody call her by alright it's always you know it's she's Naomi and you know like the prodigal he said I you know I'm not worthy to come back so I'll just kind of label myself like Naomi labeled herself Mara bitter the prodigal said I'm gonna be labeled as a servant but of course he comes back to father's house and and and the father doesn't impute the label that that he applied to himself to his son he called him a son right so you know the doors are open and and I really feel that God is reaching in this season and we got to be ready to receive them and and doesn't matter where they've come from what they've done with labels they may be may have ascribed themselves we gotta be ready to receive them with open arms and with love and and yeah there's house there there's bread in the house of God a man that is so great thank you so much brother Matt whatever that is just that's great and to anybody that's watching they may be backs like we want you to know that you're welcome get to a church as soon as you can I'm so you know hold of get a hold of Pentecostal church get a hold of an Apostolic Church in your city and in Jesus name they'll welcome you with open arms pastor Woodward is there anything you'd like to add to that I can't agree more you know I do think that I hope I think and I pray that this time makes people value the local church so very much and I do think Matt's right you know some backsliders that always just thought I can come back to God next Sunday I can go back to God this month next month now they see how easy it is for the rug to be pulled out from under all of us and you can't even get to a church service at all so I sure hope it it results in them thinking I got to get back to God I got and I'm praying that way believe in that way and I think we will see a bunch of that a man and a man I agree I made a statement when we first went into this season and that was you know people that said they never stepped foot back into those churches you know and and there maybe with living with their parents or it's a husband with his wife or a wife with her you know vice versa that you know and they're in there and they've got these messages being played on their laptop their phone and they're hearing apostolic voices again those that said they never would and I believe that there's going to be a great harvest of produções through this and that I you know I'd really like to take that into our next question I'd like to direct this towards you pastor Woodward and that is how can we be most effective in this season of ministry what are some tools that you would like to put into some hands of some people that are watching here today well you know I think one thing is we just need to be who we are called to be we did have some very severe restrictions here for a for a time and we had to do everything and I've seen many churches do this you know we were pre recording the sermon pre recording the music pretty recording whatever the announcements and then just kind of blending it all together so I appreciate that that's necessary sometimes I've also seen some of our churches that just I mean technologically they're just amazing and I love that I think that's wonderful that you know we've done I've seen everything from virtual choirs to to you know all kinds of things done and I love it all it's all very good it's it's amazing but I do think that one of the things we have to watch all the time with online stuff the online the media world makes what is real look Fay and what is fake look real you know at some point I haven't done it yet but at some point I'm gonna preach a series called Apostolic idle because you know American Idol takes these singers these acts and they make something they manufacture a moment the actual audition that they do is not at all like the finished product there is nobody singing this song and it swells at exactly the right time and it stops and and like they manufacture the moment but it feels like there's this huge emotional kick to it so you know I love everything we're doing right now I'm so grateful that churches have learned new skills especially online because like Matt said people are checking us out online long before they ever come so I think we need to be excellent I think we need to be you know everything all of that get the best equipment you can get the best people you can do the best job you can but at the end of the day I think we've got to be a post Aulick and so one of the things that we were able to do again and it feels everything feels new right now you know this was so stupid but it happened in our office this afternoon here we don't have States we have provinces so the provincial government said today you're now allowed to have drive-in services they've said that two weeks ago but only with 50 cars we can't get our church in a in a parking lot with 50 cars you know so we were trying to figure out do we need three services to accommodate the whole church do we need for services it was gonna be a big pain in the neck there's gonna wear out our team and it was gonna be a nightmare to coordinate so today they said well you can have outdoor services drive-in services and they put no restriction other than everybody has to stay in the car cars have to be six feet apart we're all like all this is so awesome this is so office also and then somebody stopped and said this is so stupid we're happy that they're gonna let us not come in our building not get out of our cars we're happy like it's it's like we're happy but that we're not a jail or something so you know we've had we've done so much online stuff and it's been necessary and we've done the you know fade in from the announcements of the music of fado to the preaching and it looks fine but it's not real the preacher wasn't even in the building when the music team recorded that song this past Sunday we went even though we're limited to a very small team we had 10 people that that's max that's everybody in the building and we do a service it just felt so much better to be back to that not that we had any more of a crowd it was actually the same number of people that have been working separately but it just feels better because there's a dynamic when people are together wouldn't when two or three are gathered together in my name on they're in the midst of them that's not in the Bible by accident so you know I think when we're doing all of this stuff we've got to be apostolic and when we do an outdoor service it's gonna feel weird you got people sitting in their cars you know but it can be apostolic because we're together and I don't think we need to do some canned little message that sounds like any Church in town I think we just need to preach the gospel you know encourage the Saints by the time we do that it will have been two months be since our church has been together I think we just need to be outta stall it because the media can manipulate and I don't want us to learn those skills I want us to learn excellence I want us to learn efficiency I want us to learn technique I don't want us to learn manufacturing an emotional moment because that undoes something that we're not supposed to do absolutely you know we can't lose our apostolic distinctives what makes us who we are and I couldn't agree more as such great advice and brother Matt Woodward is there anything you'd like to add sure yeah I just want to say you know as a youth pastor and and this would apply to any level of ministry or department of ministry it's really easy to look out and see other people and in your seams fear kind of in your same track of ministry that are really polished and you know to kind of get in that vein of thought here and it's easy to compare yourself to that and and feel like you need to you know out Hollywood the next guy if you will just polish the next guy but on the on the youth ministries podcast just in John's made a statement just in their most recent episode he said his philosophy for youth ministry and he's either pastor at Woodlawn Church in Columbia Mississippi he said I try to be personal / professional and so he's like you know and you know you look and I don't know that they're putting very much out for the public to consume but you know they're doing zoom calls with their students they're touching base with their students so maybe on the surface to those outside looking in maybe it doesn't look like they're very active but but because he's trying to flow in the personal / professional and so you know we've we've tried to get a zoom class goal you know we've been doing some pre-recorded devotions for our youth and and we're doing a class that's more hands-off or more personal and interactive so it's really easy to fall into that comparison trap but but ultimately we're trying to serve our local assemblies and in my case you know a youth group and the personal touch always is gonna help and and go a lot further I think yeah absolutely you know Billy Woodward I wanted to ask you in this season do you have any advice for maybe the missionary who isn't able to get back to their field of labor right now or the Evangelist that's sitting at home you know wondering when's the next time he's gonna get to stand behind a pulpit is there any advice you would give to the Evangelist and the missionaries and these these ministers that don't necessarily have a a flock that they're shepherding hands-on right now that's our that's a really rough one you know the first week we were into this I was talking to the church if I can say it this way and I'm not trying to be callous about it or casual about it but missions minded missions giving churches are almost bulletproof financially I don't know what you would do to mess them up financially and and I have that witness from I don't know how many pastors you know I've talked to several friends that they have missions minded churches as well finances are up commitment giving all of that stuff they haven't missed a beat and we're seeing that here and and and so I really have a heart for missions missionaries all of that so when we opened the one of the first messages I preached and we were starting to talk about you know finances only from the perspective not of worry but just here's how you will need to give over the next few weeks it looks like so we talked a little bit about online giving which we've had but we don't stress it very much so that's a good option our office was actually closed down for a couple of weeks so you know it was all online and bless our faithful little seniors like they've made drives just to drop off their ties or their missions or whatever so you know I do have a heart I said if you can find a missionary to give to an evangelist to bless and I made that statement of the church they can't travel right now and my heart goes out to them because you know it's easy for somebody like me or Matt that we work at a church if we have an income from that and it's not gone anywhere everything's fine everything's the same that from that direction it's easy for us to say well they just need to have faith in God well yeah if that was you you wouldn't appreciate such a callous casual answer as that but I do think that what we need to do it needs to go and be a two-way street pastors need to hook into missionaries that they know or that they can help they also need to hook into church planters or evangelist that they know and they can help and there's a relationship there somebody said to me and and I'm not trying to be whatever but I was talking to one pastor I've done several online services and whatever and basically a lot of those churches I've just said you know they said well I'd like to give you something for doing the service and I've said give it to an evangelist and one of them responded and said can you tell me the name of an evangelist that's not well known because basically I think their thought was you know there's a handful of like 10 evangelists that everybody knows and they're gonna get lots offerings because people love them you know but he said you know tell me an evangelist that nobody knows that I can give this to and and so I think that's important one of the things that we did just the other week is on this private Facebook group for our members missionary Brad Thompson in Guatemala Guatemala has been so hard hit with this they have so many people that live like the majority of the population is way below the poverty line people didn't even have food to eat so they were putting up white flags on their house and if that didn't get attention a white flag meant we have no food and if that didn't get attention and he sent us pictures there was one picture of several people representing their family standing along a busy roadway with white flags all lined up we don't have any food so brother Brad just said you know that includes some of our pastors he said there's no way one of our pastors pastor in a United Pentecostal Church in Guatemala there's no way one of our pastors is gonna go without food so he just put a little note on his Facebook page and said if she can help so we put a note it was Matt's idea Matt saw it and flying it and said we need to do something so you know we put a little note on our private member's group we didn't announce it to the church we hadn't had a service yet on a Saturday morning we put a note on the page by that night we had eight thousand dollars that offering just taught twelve thousand dollars so that's all going straight to you know humanitarian kind of relief in Guatemala and helps our missionary now Brad is from our church his family I pastor his mom and dad his their in-laws here Brad's a hometown boy so that's a good relationship and I would say to missionaries and evangelists church planners those relationships that you have I don't think it's the time with all respect I don't think it's a time and and I've got some missionaries that you know I serve as their pastor or whatever and they've said you know should I you know send out a letter or should I kind of canvass a bunch of people and I've said no I don't think it's the time everybody's kind of got this like you know they don't know what tomorrow is gonna hold we've had churches that have had a loss we've had churches that have had to take some government assistance in in your country especially I think to you know make payroll so I said I don't think it's time to send out a bulk email or letter to people you don't even know but lock into your relationships that's what I would say if you're a church planner that's been sent out and you have some key relationships lock into those relationships be honest with them tell them your needs you don't have to couch it all in spiritual terms we all know that you're not on the road we get that if you're a missionary the same thing if you're an evangelist especially the same thing just this week we had an evangelist that was going to be here with us in June the canada-us border is closed up right now nobody can get either way across that except a ver a handful of what they call essential workers like truck drivers or whatever that are in the food chain so we just sent an honorarium to this evangelist just I think it went in the mail yesterday I just said don't come don't worry about coming if you come you're gonna be preached into a camera in an empty auditorium so there's no sense we didn't know at that point we could have drive-in services but at this point we don't know that's only like a month away we don't know if he can even get across the border at that point so we just sent him an honorarium as though he'd been here and I think if there's pastors listening to this that's what we need to do brethren we need to take key connections of people that we know that have bless your ministry bless your church and we need to be blessed them at this time I know that like Lynn Jewett is here in in Fredericton at the moment she's not in Guatemala she was about to start deputation and you know she like so many other people is going to be utilizing some technology and I think it's this coming week we're gonna help her put together basically a service and that she's gonna be able to you know Lord willing send to some of the churches that's wanted to host her so I would agree probably sending out a letter I'm you know I'm not even gonna come I feel so unqualified to comment on what a missionary or an evangelist should do so I'm just gonna let my dad's comment suffice but I do think there may be opportunity like with sister Jewett you know she's gonna be basically doing a virtual service that can be you know the same video sent to various places and and and still perhaps raise her P im's and whatever she's doing so I think there's that opportunity with all the modern technology for for some in some circumstances as well so that's from Matt who's unqualified to comment but it's probably the best idea I didn't even know we were doing that I just worked there I I don't I saw everything that's going on so I was where she's staying I went down to just do a little small job for my dad and she came out heard I was collecting bottles for SFC if you have them send me your cans and bottles in the mail I was kidding so she gave me a bag and she was telling me about it so I didn't know either so I guess we're all learning something today I I think that would be like a way that you know like what Matt said you know if you've got a good tech team I saw brother Bernard send out a note this week that brother Cunningham's church they're going to use their tech team or the kindness is going to preach a Pentecost Sunday service it's going to be all self-contained music and preaching an altar call or whatever and churches can use that freely what what a great blessing to a minute missionary you know if you've got adequate tech to do a good job with that and and do some kind of service and missionaries can use all of that you know one thing I would say is as a pastor I'm typically not looking for full service but if there's missionaries listening here or whatever like us a short thing you know with sister Lynn will do a full service but even a short thing that somebody when they're air in their webcast over the next few months could play a five-minute clip of a missionary saying this is our need and make an appeal for an offering that works for us every time like it's just it's amazing yeah and she I think she's aiming for 20 minutes and she's doing up a PowerPoint presentation so it's gonna feel like I mean not in every building it's gonna be in our building but it'll feel like she's getting up and in giving a typical missionary presentation at least what's typical for her so anyway I think it's I thought was a good idea when I heard it to that great idea yeah that's great and I know even like a evangelist mark trust he hosted an online crusade and I think he said there was some reported 350 that received the Holy Ghost so that's awesome you know there are further draws exactly you know there are still ways to you know to do this and have revival and reach the lost and and until and you prayed somebody through the Holy Ghost over the internet or something this past week yes sir so I'm here I'm here in revival with Eastwind and this the receptionist sister Darlene she she she gave me this guy's number she said he's been callin asking for prayer so I'm handing it over to you so I've been on the phone with him for you know three weeks and this this past I think it was Tuesday was the third week so I'm on the phone them and I said explain to me how you went through salvation he said well I was baptized in Jesus name he said but that's that's it he said that's all I've ever experienced I said so you never received the Holy Ghost he said no I've never received the Holy Ghost so I walked them through the you know the steps to receive and the Holy Ghost explain to him the necessity of receiving of the evidence of speaking in a new tongues and I just had an unction come over me I said you know what put your phone on the table in front of you throw your hands up in the air put your phone on speaker I said God's gonna fill you of the Holy Ghost right now and and we went through repentance together and before I knew it a brother was speaking in in tongues and it was the most beautiful experience problem that was beautiful that I've had in in praying sobriety through to the Holy Ghost because I don't know what what culture he hails from but he was very heavily you know in his culture he was calling me pastor pastor he said master passed her such joy such joy and before he could finish his sentence he just boomed started speaking in tongues and couldn't hold it back and then he like tried to wrangle it in again and he starts saying pastor I'm happy I'm happy and before he could finish that second I'm happy boom just as pure his day starts speaking in that heavenly language again I thought chills just thinking about it so that's it wasn't it was beautiful so I mean there's well there are ways that we can do this and and such great advice coming from you brother Woodward and you brother Matt thank you guys and at this time I want to I want to go from the preset questions into our viewer questions now and one of the viewer questions is to you brother Woodward and people want to know how do you approach studying the Bible of course you're very known as a profound teacher and and I think you know something that our viewers are wanting to know is how do you approach studying well that's a great question I like to ask people the same thing you know I say this I do approach studying as a teacher more than a preacher and that's probably gifting or aptitude or whatever and what I mean by that is preaching is the anointed declaration of truth when you preach the gospel you're declaring truth teaching is the anointed explanation of truth so when you teach your explaining truth it's it feels slightly different they're not in competition they're they're not you know it's it's it's the same Bible it's the same message if I could say it in any way that would clarify I think teaching comes at you slower it's like stealth mode you know because you can teach the Bible and then it catches up with you like a week from Thursday when you're going through something it's like I learned that from the Bible so that's a little different preaching brings you to a moment of decision and and when you are faced with that you've got to decide do I walk out do I go to the altar do I get baptized do I refuse preaching brings you to a moment teaching equips you for moments that are going to come at you in the future so it's it's just a slight bit different and I approach preparation as a teacher more than a preacher to me preaching does this if I was to take a camera and a video camera to me preaching is the camera in that sermon I take a snapshot of a verse snapshot of a passage and I preach that and so that's what I see is that moment teaching is like a video camera I pan around I tell you this is what's going on in Isaiah's time this is what King Hezekiah was doing this is the background and I just kind of pan it around so it's the same image it's the same message it's the same punchline maybe even for the sermon but but teaching comes at it in a little different way now there are some people Dillon that they can't make that jump to them everything is one speed everything is one intensity everything is one way and there are people that would take great issue with what I just said because to them there's only get a scripture screaming at people until they do something you know and I'm not making fun I'm just saying like that's really how they feel to them there is nothing different than just preach preach preach preach and I think there I think there is because the Bible talks about those different giftings in fact the the Bible puts teachers in the fivefold ministry but does not put preachers in the fivefold ministry pastors and teachers and of course apostles prophets evangelists so pastors Paul told Timothy you need to be apt to teach where we've grown up Matt and I in New Brunswick when they used to say oh he's a teacher they meant he's a really boring preacher and and that's that always perked me because my dad in education all of his career my sister is my daughter's got her education degree Matt sister Emily so education kind of runs in the blood and that's kind of where I was headed before I got into ministry so when I approached something I approached it maybe a little bit different so I'm not saying this is the only way to do it because I don't agree with that I am I am a notes preacher and again people would take issue with that I heard one gentleman say bless God I don't need notes I'm living the notes well I'm trying to live my notes too but they're written down and and and so when I prepare something to teach or preach I'm gonna get it to the best of my ability I'm a manuscript preacher I will depart from notes I'll go all over the place but I've got something to come back to and the reason I became a manuscript creature years ago was because I found out that I would ramble so much that it just took extra time to get there so the most important part for me to write down is my introduction because I don't want to waste time there people to know and so I'll write something down and and as a teacher I don't always start with a verse I don't always read a text first sometimes I'll set it up I'll tell the story of what's going on in you know King Josiah's rule or King David's reign and I'll set it up and build anticipation for the scripture I want to go to and by the time I get to the scripture they feel the story because I hear some preaching that's like you know they read a scripture maybe they read 20 verses and then they go back and after they've prayed and they explain all those 20 verses in modern English again add a couple of details they've taken 20 minutes of the sermon and we haven't even got the text gone yet so so when I'm preparing I want to make it concise and I do that better if I write it down I want to make it clear and I do that better if I write it down I want to make it memorable and I do that better if I write it down one of my tools when I'm preparing a sermon writing it out typing it out is a thesaurus I don't want to say awesome 15 times I want to say awesome amazing astounding and just in case he happens to be watching for my friend David Smith I want to say incredible unbelievable he doesn't believe you're allowed to say that because it's not credible but anyway that's what I want to do with with all of that I want to use different words that are impacting now I'm not saying everybody should do that Dillon because some people that's not how God works in their spirit they get a verse and they just need to preach with passion and declare that verse so I'm just saying how how I do it so that's the that's the finished product and I will say one last thing and then I'll talk to you about preparing and I know we just went way around the barn here the other reason the main reason the best reason I write stuff down is because if you go back to my old sermons and they're all on paper and they were typed on an old manual typewriter and I hate that you guys didn't have to go through that that's just not fair but I used to type him out and then I would jot notes and up in the corners I would write down every place I preached them and it's all on paper and it's in big binders and it's just awful but that was me you know I know preachers that have preached for years pastor for years they got filing cabinets full of paper sermons thank God for digital but I I got tired of going back to a message thinking you know okay I'm feeling to preach on you know David and Goliath and I know I preached a message so I go back there and pull out some sermon first of all it took me forever to find it but I get it and then I see my bullet points because that's how I used to preach and my bullet points would be a dog story story about Philippines conference I didn't have a clue what that meant anymore I knew that weekend and so now I write out everything I say I write out stories I write out illustrations because then I can go back to it I instantly got it I can cut base it if I need but also it becomes more and more useful to home missionary every once in while Matt will be preparing something for you service they'll say I'm working on you know whatever passage do you have anything did you ever study anything about you know Cain and Abel or whatever he's never said that but but but some passage so it's useful later so to get there here's my process I take two looks at Scripture number one I take the wide look and I think that is probably the teacher in me I want to tell people what's going on I want to set the stage so when I'm studying I read background information I know some people find that boring but I want to know what's going on in Israel or Judah what's going on in Corinth what's going on in Paul's life at this time if if Paul writes an epistle there is not a chance I'm gonna preach from that epistle without refreshing in my mind where is Paul is he in prison is he on a boat is he being whipped did he just go through a riot there's not a chance because that affects the interpretation so to me that's the wide look that's the video camera I'm gonna pan around and I'm gonna find out everything I can about those scriptures those people at that time what's going on and then I'm gonna take not the what the wide look I'm gonna take the deep look and the deep look to me is going through verses going through stories going through passages and the epistles and when words pop out at me it could be a repeated word that occurs 15 times in one chapter it could be an unusual word that we don't use anymore it could be a word that is obviously being emphasized in in in that scripture or it could just be a word that the Holy Ghost quickens to me and I'll go through with you know and thank God it's all electronic I wish you guys had had to use a concordance because I used to carry around Strong's exhaustive concordance it weighs about eight pounds and it was exhaustive to carry it Matt if you got one like he gave me a bunch of books awhile back one of those may have been that book also he gave me was it my hair my glory and hurt a few others you're gonna need that book if this crisis keeps going on yeah I know I know and they don't open up the barber shop soon I asked Dylan before we went live he said he has a he has an under under the table however gonna say a barbarous I'm jealous he's got that nice heart I can see it I tried doing that myself before didn't go good what I am working on is a mullet I think but anyway that's that's my deal that deep look is diving into the words of Scripture and those are really the two things that I think they inform how I study I love information that gives me background material one of my favorite resources is the Bible exposition commentary by Warren where's be it's not a real scholarly commentary and where's B he was a Baptist so he's going to be off base on the gifts of the Spirit on the plan of salvation and on you know talking in tongues and several things but if you've got a good apostolic filter where's be is brilliant because he was the back to the Bible teacher for years and he was a pastor before that and so he's brilliant at just parsing out the background of the epistles the background of the book of Acts the background of the Old Testament books that's where everybody struggles you get into the Minor Prophets and oh my goodness you you have to have like a detective to figure out what kingdom are they talking to and what king it is and and what's been going on and who the other prophets are at the time and so that's where he's really good he's not going to help me with doctrine I've got to do that from an apostolic perspective he's going to help me with the background so that's my go-to resource they're one of my go-to resources for the other just the deep look looking at Scripture is just using an electronic online Bible program a concordance and so you know you can dive into words and find out what they mean I would caution especially young / listen to this that you can't just take the meaning that you like you've got it because words aren't just defined by a list of definitions words are defined by context you know so if I say to you hotdog well we parse that out well that's a warm canine so a hot dog is a warm canine that's what it is that's that's not true because the context in which you use hot dog would tell you its food or you know close to food so so that's basically where we are with hot dog okay so it's the same with Bible words you can't just look at a long list in the concordance and say oh that's the definition I want you need to do some work to figure out this is the meanings of the word but what context is it used in in this verse because it can vary a little bit and Rick Warren the Southern Baptist pastor from Saddleback Church in California he said something that was really really one time he said if you see something in scripture that nobody's seen in 2,000 years of church history you're wrong that's basically it you're wrong if you see something in Scripture that brother Bernard is never seen Jerry Jones is never seen mark Morgan has never seen you know if you see something like that in scripture you're wrong so so compare notes as you're studying with good apostolic resources especially if you're new at preaching or teaching or putting messages together so that's an awfully long answer but it was fun Wow thank you so much that is so good I mean I know for every not just every young preacher but every preacher that's listening that they're gonna glean from that so thank you very much for that and Matt would we got some questions that came in from from viewers for you and the first one is this what is the best advice you could give young people to protect themselves spiritually in this season yeah you know it's it's not just young people I think it's all ages and it's I think it's a an obvious answer but I think it's the right answer you know I guess a couple things number one I'll say you need to be very intentional but redeeming the time you know I I came from where I saw probably a meme or something it was talking about how like you know thank you thank you pandemic for finally helping me realize that me not using my exercise equipment was not because I didn't have the time right it's still it's still a rack for my drying laundry you know and and really for a lot of us that maybe have used a lack of time as an excuse for not having a time of devotion with God or whatever you know that the curtain has been pulled back on that right so we have a lot of time and I would just encourage you to redeem it and use it wisely and it's not to say that you have to pray for 12 hours every day you know but if you're still wrestling they're setting attainable goal and start moving forward right what you need is some wins under your belt so you know set a goal to pray for 5 10 20 minutes and whatever whatever you feel is attainable be consistent at a time in a place and then do it get in the word and getting prayer so you know I think that's that's the primary thing and the other thing is you know obviously sin seeks secrecy and anonymity and were isolated so don't don't just kind of use it as a fallback or an excuse not to do something it may be kind of outside the box or out of your normal routine but you know specifically directed to a young person stay connected to as many of your friends in the church that you can you know you know we are isolated but we don't have to be disconnected because you know as I said sin it thrives in the dark and so just try to pull as many people around you in whatever medium you can it may be over Facebook messenger chat or something but you know those are the biggest things and and it looks like we're kind of starting to come out of this again and as the restrictions loosen up from wherever you are take advantage of them and connect with people and I think we're all eager to that anyway but again though that's the obvious answer the time factor and and the isolation factor just be very wary and conscious of the fact we fall into bad habits and you know unseemly behaviors when you just kind of work all alone and so that's always say to that I that wasn't as long as my dad's answer I feel like I should just keep talking I think it's because I wrote out my answer and and so I didn't I didn't ramble ya know that's though that was a dose of joke you know brother woodward i think the time that we had together when I was in Fredericton you actually pointed out to me that you know accountability is being honest before you have to and I think at this point accountability partners would be very very important that if you don't have an accountability partner I would charge you and challenge you to find somebody you trust your pastors always a great one your student pastor find somebody you can trust and and I would say you need you need somebody you can be accountable to especially in this season yeah and and the truth of the matter is the reason my answer was way shorter is because everything my dad's answer was there was a lot of meat there just for the record he redeemed itself actually your dad is extremely long-winded that's all that that was loved it though it was so great the next question directed towards you by the Woodward is this what advice would you give somebody going into an unchurched town to start a church I would say what Matt said earlier I don't feel very qualified to offer any advice there because I've never gone into an unchurched town and started a church so I can give you some generic general principles that would apply to probably any church but I would recommend that you get somebody that has done that has experience in that and you know kind of lockstep with them for a little bit a a couple of things I would say that are generic and a little general but you learn from apostolic people there are all kinds of church planting out ideas out there some of them have a lot of merit but a lot of of church planting church growth ideas I think we've come to see now we're just beginning to see the the fallout from them and and and the pushback from them and and what I mean by that is you know if you start out to some some of the mega churches in America were started by people doing surveys in the community what kind of church would you like to see well a church that doesn't preach all that stupid doctrine and doesn't have a bunch of rules and so so what they ended up doing and and you know I'm not picking on them I actually liked this guy but I think Bill Hybels and Willow Creek is the obvious example you know Hybels goes in there they survey the community they start this church it grows to be one of the biggest mega churches in America but the moral underpinnings of that church were were and not just the most recent scandal you know I've talked to people that you know they they passed through Saints in the Chicago area who had interactions with some of the leadership team there did service at hotels when their leadership team was meeting some of the reports that were coming back years before this scandal that took Bibles out and and and made willow kind of a you know the I I don't want to say laughingstock of the media community but but certainly put a black eye on them and on the name of Christianity and and really you know they started out to build something without the Holy Ghost don't you make the same mistake if you're an apostolic church planter I'm not saying willow never had a great idea I'm not saying Saddleback doesn't or Northpoint doesn't or elevation doesn't or whoever you're looking at following or you're exposed to they've got great ideas I'm not saying that church growth conferences great ideas but at the end of the day you starting in Apostolic Church so there's going to be a dimension of spiritual warfare that you've got to fight that they're not going to have to fight and I can't say it any more plainly than that so that doesn't mean you approach it scared to death that just means you approach it determined you know one church planner that that I've known for years he went into a community and he grew his church good growth curve and they started having a bunch of people coming and then he just said man I've got to teach on some stuff or I'm gonna turn this into something that I never intended to build and he was referring to our lifestyle disciplines and commitments he said if I don't start teaching on that soon so I would say to you don't set out to portray yourself as this cool you know media savvy [Music] technologically sharp church when you're just doing bait and switch you're gonna show them an image that we're kind of like all the other church startups you've ever heard of we're kind of like the mega church only we're small you start out and be authentically Apostolic and to do that in your preaching again I could quote you chapter in verse from church planter friends that have lost groups of people at one time because they wouldn't stop preaching apostolic doctrine mark Graham Matt mentioned on the ground story yeah yeah he came to a point where you know God spoke to him after he lost a pile of people basically everybody and said now I can trust you with revival and then it started to happen that so be authentically apostolic learn from people that are doing what you want to do ie other Apostolic Church planners not some talking head named Raymond Woodward that's never started a church learn from people that have done what you want to do and you know one of the things that I heard when you were saying that is you're saying don't look to them and on the other side of that is that I also want to say if like you are starting to church just from listening what you just said I don't I don't know at all when you see that they're growing into a megachurch in just a few years one of the things you mentioned is they're not encountering the spiritual warfare you're encountering absolutely though don't beat yourself up if they're at 500 and you're still at 50 you've gone further in the spirit world than they have by leaps and bounds and when that revival hits it's going to be authentic apostolic revival exactly what are the things that you know we try to be gracious welcoming visitor friendly all of that stuff in our preaching and teaching so this is not something I would ever say in a public service but this is a different forum tonight we're talking you know let's not count the number of attendees and the pews you could be the biggest Church in town as far as the number of people that are going to heaven just because somebody goes to a church they've made some kind of profession of faith a mental assent Jesus is Lord that doesn't mean that doesn't translate biblically into their going to heaven now they've started their faith journey and I'm grateful for that and I'll give them kudos for that but we need to work with them to get them to a biblical plan of salvation so a church of 50 that has 50 people baptized in Jesus name filled with the Holy Ghost could actually populate heaven with more people than a mega church that doesn't even preach the new birth message and and might have a handful of people that have ever experienced anything close to that so so let's let's not compare apples and oranges let's compare apples and apples well that's so great thank you so much for that advice and that wisdom whether word Matt one of the viewers wanted to ask you this question alongside being a student pastor they wanted to know you know how are you keeping your youth group connected and feeling involved during this quarantine / social distancing yeah I think that's the million-dollar question I mean it is a challenge we're using the same tools that most people be using we're trying to utilize social media we're trying to utilize you know we're the livestream devotion archiving we're doing our zoom class which is more you know personal and you can connect and interact you know touching base texting again going back to the personal over professional thing you know it's pretty basic and and like I don't know if it was mentioned already in this conversation or not but we just are starting to open up a few things we can get together outside legally we're not gonna get thrown in jail anymore if we do this outside with up to groups of ten so you know in the coming couple of weeks you better believe we're gonna be taking advantage of all the opportunity that we have we're gonna be safe we're not gonna you know go and I don't know wrestle or something you can't do that sixty-two part but you know we're gonna we're gonna be wise be safe but we're gonna take advantage of those things you know III think I just can't say enough I think and it's it's Matt Johnson I think that said first where I first heard it you know don't underestimate the power of a five-minute conversation and you know that's great in person of or after a service those are all powerful opportunities but you know in this season don't underestimate the power of a five-minute conversation just touching base with the student touching base with you know your team or whatever as much as possible and I know that can be challenging and feel daunting like for me to call everybody or to try to have that personal touch with every single person is daunting but you know divide and conquer that's fine too but but I think those are the best ways to help us to feel connected and it's in those conversations that you can encourage and point back to the other things that you're doing and you know kind of get a feel if they are engaging in those but just to put everything out and not really try to follow up and and and just see how they're doing on that personal level I think it kind of shoots what you're what else you're trying to do in the foot cuz there's no way of really knowing if it's effective unless you're kind of reaching out on that personal level that's what I would say to that you know I heard somebody say in the middle of this is that connectivity is more important than content right now staying together the you know and I see that a lot happened I feel like churches are realizing that you know we're a body we are together I see a lot of churches creating Facebook families which i think is great I see a lot of churches you know and I think that there is gonna be a more beautiful personal spirit of unity when we come out of this and that's what I'm praying for because as we look through the book of Acts the greatest moments that revival came through unity so I really pray that that's one of the things that that happens through this is that the body comes out of this unify to tee up on something that matt said there one of the statements that I really liked from Andy Stanley the Southern Baptist pastor in Atlanta he said one time in some kind of leadership session do for one what you wish you could do for everyone so that's something I think pastors need because pastors could collapse under guilt I I don't have time to call everybody you know especially if the church is a few hundred people or larger you know the other week we were trying to touch base with our church family so we kind of divvied it up and you know again we had our young couple that works with multicultural they were calling them we have people you know single moms checking in on single moms and whatever I asked for the seniors that don't have internet access and Beverly and I split that list up and call them you know they haven't been able to be a church or be online they don't have internet access so they were really missing their church you know we had one sweet little precious lady she came to to the office she could we can't let them in you know have to stop them right in the entryway but she came to drop off her tithe so faithful and she talked to Nicole who works in the office and she was weeping I miss my church so bad you know she she can't watch it online so she's been without Church still faithful she's basically been without Church for you know a month and then finally what we did was we we did one of the programs that allows us to do phone in so they list on the phone but that's that's hard so we took that list I can't call everybody in the church I wouldn't get anything else done that week but we did take the seniors I called about half of them Beverly called about half of them and we had some of the most wonderful of course there's tears and they're so thankful I can't do that for everyone but I can do it for one I can do it for a small group and so you know what Matt says very important you know the the connection with people you may not be able to connect with everybody but but pick connect some you know do what you can do and don't feel guilt over what you can't do right now that's really important you know maybe something that it could be done is you know it has a department head you take it onto yourself to reach the group that you're over you know you said that you and and sister Baylor took it upon yourselves I'll contact the seniors so maybe student pastor call your students you know however it is you know maybe that's something that somebody could do even in this season absolutely and I want to ask this question to you brother Woodward this this came in from one of our viewers and they said what is your top five reads what what would you say is your top five must reads for somebody wanting to go deeper in this season I actually wrote this down because you you were kind enough to give me that question beforehand because that could vary like you know if I'm into a book that's the book this week but but looking back over time I would say especially to those that work in ministry and especially to those that serve in what I would call a second-chair role in ministry these are really important the first two or really important resources one is a tale of three kings by Jeanne Edwards every leader probably every Christian needs to read that book it's a little skinny book it's written in the form of a parable you probably will read it in one setting because you will want to very powerful book about submission about brokenness about you know serving leaders when you don't always understand them another book for those that work in ministry a very very good resource is called second-in-command it's by a pastor a leader and his son-in-law Dutch sheets and Chris Jackson and second-in-command is just this incredible textbook about how to work together when you're the second guy and and it has advice both ways because they write together a very good book now we were talking about studying earlier one of the things that I do that has really been a help to me and and from feedback from other people listening to messages or whatever I tried to go really in depth on what we know from Jewish sources the whole Old Testament deals with the Jewish people and the New Testament church they were all Jews for the first ten years of church history and and and through to the end of the book of Revelation there's Jewish culture Jewish politics Jewish society Jewish customs everything still impacting the church right to the closing words of the Bible and so I like those kind of resources I preached a message I've preached it several times called healing in his wings about the prayer saw I learned that by studying Jewish customs I've referred to I preached a message called the place God put his name which is all about Mount Moriah Jerusalem learned a bunch of that stuff from Jewish history there it just goes on and on and on and on so I like those kind of resources that's usually not one book people say well where do you get that one book well it's not one book it's just you know I found a great book on the prayer shawl years ago I found a great book on you know some other subject and and I'll I'll use it again especially for younger preachers and teachers you have to be really careful that you don't get into the Jewish mysticism side of things because there's some things that you know Kabbalah and there's a bunch of Jewish sects and and Jewish ideologies that they're not true Judaism and they're not biblical Judaism they're more modern and a little weird a mystical you stay away from that stuff how do you know the difference I go back to Rick Warren's statement if you see something that nobody's ever seen in 2000 years ago church history you need to go check that out because you're way off base and so you know I checked things back check a multi check um but one book because we're talking about books here that was another around the barn sermon Matt long-winded rambling because I didn't write it down the book of mysteries Rabbi Jonathan Cahn I don't even like this type of book the book of mysteries is like a daily devotional book every day for the year you've got a little section but that guy and Jonathan Cahn by the way brotherly stonking told me that man is baptized in Jesus name he's filled the Holy Ghost he's talked to him personally on more than one occasion so although he's not us and he might not have all of the understanding of you know a doctrine that we we might have he's he's Jewish he's a rabbi that's now a Christian pastor in New Jersey and has influence with the United Nations has influence all across the wider world of Christendom this book of mysteries every day is a different thought coming from the background of a Jewish mind and the Hebrew Scriptures it's just a powerful book I got more seed thoughts from that book than probably any other book so that's a great book especially you know just to prime the pump at the bottom of every page he's got a title of a message that's on his website and if you want to study more or hear more about that subject you can go to it's a tremendous resource again it's not an apostolic resource but it's a good one um this book caught me totally by surprise but because of the age of you and math and probably a lot of your listeners I would say this it's by a guy named Tony Mikey and it's called twelve ways your phone is changing you I picked that up and thought I was picking up kind of a business book with a Christian slant and that book was amazing it became a four-part series in our church called selfie talk about online you know internet you know little throwaway ideas in that book were powerful to me it said one of the things that our phones our iPads our online our social media accounts are doing to us it's making our elders invisible because our elders are typically not on social media they're not on Instagram they're not on Facebook all the time and so we've got these powerful elders with stories to tell and a legacy of ministry and if they're on any social media at all it's it's a strange world to them they're putting minimal stuff on there in most cases there's a few exceptions TF tending was an exception he was all over Twitter and and whatever but he was an exception so think locally you know I have elders in this district that you know they're they're not on any of social media if I'm not careful my whole world becomes my peers and the problem with peers peers are wonderful but peers have roughly the same level of experience that you have you need elders in your life every one of us do I need elders in my life and sometimes so that was just a throwaway thought from that book so that book which I expected to be kind of a business kind of experience reading it it became a spiritual experience twelve ways your phone is changing you and and I would just suggest a couple of books from our elders in in that regard for those that are preachers pastors in ministry teachers youth pastors Jerry Jones put together a really great book called we preach and the great thing about that book is it covers a lot of the ground that other preaching books cover you know making sure you're you have a good conclusion and and but it's apostolic Stan Gleason put together an incredible book called follow to lead about disciple making so there are great apostolic resources and so so don't just confine your reading to what you find out in the Christian world make sure you got some apostolic stuff in there too well thank you and to every preacher in just every sink that's listening and know that that's gonna be great resource for them so thank you very much brother Woodward Matt this question was for you and by the word word I'd actually you know if you want to throw in you know your answer to this after Matt's death I would love that as well and it's this at what point did you feel your call to ministry and what was that moment like for you so you know it definitely wasn't a moment for me and you know over the years that maybe has caused some question marks like you know well hey you you hear these stories of these powerful moments you know not I mean I've had moments with God I've had moments and altars and moments of commitment to be sure but in terms of you know the stereotypical cloud parting voice from heaven sort of thing that never really happened to me personally here's how my story went and maybe there's some others that would this would resonate with it with you I just always had a desire to be involved so I was a PK obviously grew up in a ministry home very involved in church but I was the the kid in the youth group that on my summer break you know granted I did live close to church but I would come basically almost every day over my summer break and I would probably pester the living daylights or head of the create out of my youth pastor at the time I would sit in the corner of his office he had this big round chair and I would just kind of hang out with them and you know I would help him he cleaned the building I'd help him clean the building he would get me to do video illustrations and and planned skits for his sermons and all that kind of stuff so I just I just always loved being involved and you know whether it was that or music or you know I cleaned the building for a time at one point and and then over time you know one thing led to another and doors began to open and you know I always like in my calling experience to that of Joshua you know cuz Moses received his call from God in a cloud parting voice from heaven sort of scenario with the burning bush but when I read scripture you know it doesn't seem like that's the case for Joshua per se he had his moments later on and the waters of the Jordan parting stuff like that but but he received his calling through his leader Moses God spoke to Moses about Joshua's calling before he spoke to Joshua about it and he received it through Moses so you know it was my leadership of course my father and pastor Jack Lehman that you know saw something in me and and kind of you know embraced that and and and and caused it to flourish and help that to flourish and you know so I really feel like that's kind of my my path willingness to be involved desire to be involved and and planting myself in the bears where I wasn't involved and then you know leadership putting her hand on me and then it kind of transitioning to other things and Here I am today so I never had that that singular moment like Anthony Mangan and the platform rocker in the corner of his bedroom type of moment I never I never had that per se but but I've had I've had that progression if you will and my leadership putting their hands on me over the year over the years you know it's beautiful it sounds like to me that really hear your call was through serving if I if I heard one percent correctly and I think that's a that's a testimony to the necessity of you know serving before you lead I can remember when I really felt like I was being personally called to ministry my dad was like good the church needs to be clean and so you know and then I remember like I got hired to to repaint the trim and then I got put over some outreach projects and you know so I came and I would just say frankly like those sorts of things cleaning and whatever painting trim you know I never I never vied for any sort of role that put me more in the forefront or in front of people or whatever you know but in my observation and obviously my personal experience I would say it seems that God puts his hand upon people that you know didn't want this or that's not the right way to say it but didn't vie for it you know what I mean you know and I would be just as content to to not be at the lis but I think God has a way of being able to use people in a powerful way that they're not trying to grasp and clamp on to power or lead leader leadership roles you know I've just been willing to do whatever I've always had that openness and if this is the place that God has right now I'm willing to do that also you know I almost feel like David was more comfortable on the back side of a mountain ending sheep than he was you know slaying Giants are leading a nation especially there at the beginning so I think that's that's a testimony to what you're saying that you know David didn't really look for it but he had the heart that was willing and God saw that I'm a butcher this but wasn't I'm not American and I'm a a history buff but was it is it George Washington that like relinquished power and somebody called him like the most powerful man in the world because he was willing to let go of power yes that was King George of England Washington day after he served two terms the the Continental Congress or whatever they were called back then they begged Washington to serve a third term and he he refused he relinquished power and he went home to his farm and King George of England was at the time having his portrait painted and he said to the painter and it made his way into the history books he said that's the most powerful man in the world that he could actually give up power because King George wouldn't that's how America got for King George wouldn't give up power Wow yeah the Woodward could you give a little bit of your testimony of how you're calling begin sure the you know very similar to math you know I I started out just kind of being around church of course my dad great man he was a high school principal he was my high school principal q everybody feeling sorry for me the he was he was a great man a great layman a pastor's best friend and a longtime volunteer his his deal is finances he's worked doing the finances of some church the books for a church for almost as long as I've been alive maybe as long as I've been alive uh always as a volunteer and finally he got into his 70s and at ccc he was helping us there Eric Porter does like he's Eric's better at all the computerized stuff of the church than dad is but dad has this uncanny sense you know he'll say creepy things like you know I think the insurance bill will probably be here around Thursday and it'll show up Thursday morning in the mail like he knows the church year financially like the back of his hand so I've watched him serve churches like that so you know certainly serving a church like matt said was not foreign to me I wanted to help the church I wanted to use my skills or talents or whatever I had and for me early on that was kind of music learning to play the keyboard singing play and finally lead in choirs and all that stuff that's where I get started seems like another lifetime to go and you just walk through doors that are open just like matt said you know the will of God I one of the illustrations I heard that I liked the will of God people wait for this specific calling or this specific door or whatever and really all they've got is destination disease when I get there then I'll be great for God when I get there then I'll have a ministry it doesn't work like that the whole journey is ministry from the opening moment right through to the end so the will of God is kind of like jumping in a swimming pool and swimming around until you find your sweet spot that's the will of God so try Sunday school ministry if it's not for you nothing lost you served your church transition into some other kind of ministry if you try youth Ben your music ministry well music ministry is kind of special because you have to actually be able to sing or play to do music ministry in most churches not all but but you know so so that's basically you try and for me music was early and then I started feeling this push to to do something different and I was an assistant pastor for the first 18 years of my ministry I love that never had any desire to do anything other than that I never thought I would do anything other than that but along the way during that time of being an assistant pastor God started kind of pushing me out of the music thing into teaching and leading and finally ended up at at CCC and and so now 18 coming up to 19 years I've been doing that so I'm about half split in ministry on 2nd man and first chair is it's roughly half a little bit more in the first chair now but when that transition started to happen I did have a frame of reference for me there was a moment and the moment wasn't this big dramatic call I've never had that you know Matt used the Old Testament illustration of Moses and Joshua I'll throw out the New Testament illustration somebody said God called Paul but Paul called Timothy you know Timothy doesn't have a Damascus Road experience but Paul called him to help and then he became one of the effective pastors in history tells us a bishop in the church later you know kind of after the Canon of the New Testament closes so so so this is where I came at it when I started to feel this pull to do something different something more maybe I went back to this moment this wasn't the moment of my calling this was the moment of the argument that I had with God that I lost I literally had this moment I remember this moment and again it's not a dramatic call it's just this moment when in a almost like a temper tantrum I said to God okay you win I was headed for university to be a teacher like my dad and it wasn't because there was an expected for me to be a teacher I just love teaching and so I was headed to university I had all my scholarships to pay my first year in university and as I got closer and closer we're talking like within two weeks of starting University I'm just miserable and there is a Bible College in our town today it's a nice facility back then it was something like being thrown in the mammer time prison it was awful the facilities were gross the dorms are gross so for that reason I didn't want to go but the other reason I didn't want to go is I didn't want to be a like a preacher in a little country church somewhere which was kind of the outcome for a lot of students and I didn't want that I wanted to teach and I wanted to teach in public school and I think I would have made a really good teacher in public school and so I remember that moment it wasn't the moment of a calling it was the moment of a surrender and I do remember that I think you have multiple moments like that but this one I remember because it was so against what I wanted to do and I basically remember saying to God okay you win you win I give up teaching and I'll go to Bible School so I did went to Bible School went through three years there I learned some things but I had a really good background I had wonderful people that taught me at Sunday school what we used to call junior church youth group I knew a lot of Bible by the time I got to Bible school I sat in some of those first-year classes and thought I am wasting my time I knew this when I was 12 years old and and and so it wasn't it was a they're good people don't misunderstand me but I wouldn't say it was the most positive great experience I had it did open some doors for me too to connect with churches and pastors that was fine but that wasn't what I was there for you know so fast-forward and and here's another story because I didn't write this down I'm trying to tell you guys write down your introduction so that's why I'm doing this math so here's the here's the thing years later sitting in a hotel room I'm preaching at some conference and I can't remember where it was I'd have to read in my journal it could have been Australia Singapore somewhere and the Lord doesn't speak to me ever audibly that was scary to death but he gives this real strong impression and I know it's him and it was like God said to me so you gave up teaching did you for me you gave up teaching and it just hit me like a ton of bricks I gave up public school teaching but I've had the privilege of teaching in Singapore Australia China the Philippines Guatemala Ghana Togo you know whatever Scotland England all over America all over Canada Brazil like goodness and so God said to me so you gave up teaching well I didn't give up teaching God took the dream that I thought I sacrificed to do what I felt was his will and he gave I he gave me back that dream times a hundred on steroids like and and so that's why teaching is so precious to me it's it's really what I feel God wired me to do so there's that you know and and and the will of God I'll make one more comment and I'll jump off this question when we moved back to Fredericton we Frederick ins my hometown we moved to st. John I assisted a wonderful man of God there brother Edward Goddard I was his assistant pastor and then we became the senior pastor here moved back to Fredericton Emily and Matt this would have been 2001 one so they're like they're small children you know they're not tiny but they're you know they're they're young and we stopped at the side of the road at the sign leading into Fredericton and I prayed with the kids in the back I prayed the prayer that I've prayed every time I've needed to figure it the will of God because God doesn't speak to me I I don't envy them but I admire people that you know God's always talking to them I hear preachers preach and you know something in me makes wants to think there kind of be an evangelistic and exaggerating this a little bit because there are preachers that are always saying like God spoke to me last night God woke me up in the middle of the night and I love that that's wonderful that doesn't happen to me I hope God can wake me up in the middle of the night for the rapture because I sleep very very soundly IOP can wake me up for the rapture so so that doesn't happen to me but here's what does happen to me I'll get these two choices or three choices or four choices and there comes a time when you have to make a choice are you gonna move into this phase of ministry or are you gonna close that door and go a different direction and I always pray this way God you gave me common sense you gave me a brain you give me my life experiences I'm not trying to do this for me I'm trying to do this for you I don't know which door to choose I don't know which option to take so I'm gonna take this option I make sure my motives are pure it's not about money it's not about position versus position it's I'm making the best decision God that I can make with my knowledge and with my experience and with counsel with elders this is the decision I'm gonna make if I'm wrong Jesus please block me you're welcome to I won't get mad I won't get in the mood I won't sulk please block me and if I detect that you're blocking me if you close this door I will be so happy that you closed this door but because I've got two doors or three doors and I don't have this word from the divine I'm gonna make the best decision with counsel with prayer with my my the wisdom I have and if it's not right Jesus you blocked me you don't only have my permission to block me you have my request to please block me and that's how I've made a lot of major decisions and I remember praying that in the car when we were coming to the Frederick and God if this isn't right you know we're getting ready to come here we're getting ready to preach we're getting ready to be voted on you know for this church if it's not right throw a wrench into it you like like mess it up and I won't be upset I'll be happy because I really do want to do the will of God Wow you know just listening to both of your stories it sounds like you know some things have to be caught instead of taught as far as your journeys in the ministry you know you were near and you were willing to catch things that God was putting in your hands and God was trying to throw you too and trying and you were willing to say okay I'm in the vicinity of where I need to be and because of that I'm willing to catch it and one of the things I think I just gleaned from both of your testimonies is you can't ever go wrong serving at the house of God or the man of God because being in the vicinity of those two locations there's some things you're just gonna catch you can't help but catch it brother Matt is there something that you wanted to say no no I'm good are you leaning forward I was just making sure I was like well he's just exhausted from the long answers well this has been so great and I want to thank again both of you for coming on and in and doing this with me I know you've been such a great blessing to all the viewers here and everybody that's going to be watching this this recording live on Facebook or YouTube or when it gets uploaded to podcast and all of these things so I just want to thank you both for doing this for being a blessing and ministering to those that are that are on tonight it's been an honor and a treat thank you my privilege and a great privilege thank you for letting me do something with Matt because we don't get to do this kind of stuff together he does stuff he's doing like the high tech youth you know they've got like flashing lights and you know 17 camera angles and whatever he does that I I do this but I don't get to do with him very much ever if at all so thank you for that privilege it's been awesome both being with both of you tonight oh absolutely I guess and like I said a little bit of time with Matt in when I was there in in New Brunswick Fredericton and when I was there just didn't take long to realize that the apple hasn't fallen far from the church just a great spout of knowledge and hunger for the word so in closing brother Woodward would you would you pray over us before we close this tonight I would be on or to Dillon Lord Jesus I thank you so very much God for the opportunity to get together we've done this around tables and restaurants we've done this in church meetings we've had conversations standing in the aisle after a great altar service so tonight's a different format but our desire is the same and you are the same our desire is to please you our desire is to be a blessing and to minister somebody else and our desire is to give you glory and your presence resides around us and in us and for every believer that's listening every pastor and every youth leader every volunteer in their church every great young person that may listen to this conference call Jesus your Spirit resides in and around them and so somewhere during this last while you've quickened something to them something that maybe they learned or something that maybe they looked at it in a different way maybe you took a load of guilt off them because they always thought that their calling or their gifting or their ministry or it was a little inferior and and I pray God that you'd continue that work and everybody that's that's been part of this call tonight that will be part of this call once it's uploaded and they're listening to it Jesus I just ask that you'd use our efforts tonight that you'd use Dylan's efforts especially to be a blessing to be a strength and to be an encouragement to people because all of us the reason we're listening to calls like this the reason we're doing conference calls like this is because we want to get better doing what you've called us to do when leaders get better everybody gets better when leaders go higher everybody goes higher when leaders dig deeper in the things of God Jesus everybody gets a chance to dig deeper in the things of God so help us as leaders to do your will and help us to bring as many as possible along with us I pray your blessing you're covering and your provision over the people that are listening tonight be with us all lead us all order our steps in your word we pray in Jesus name Amen thank you so much for the would word thank you so much Matt for joining us tonight and um again I can't stress enough how great of a blessing you both have been to everyone that's been listening and to me I'm gleaning from this so much so I want to give you both honor and it's there anything you guys want to say in your closing remarks where we hang up here go ahead Matt no I'm good I has been has been fun I appreciate you and it has been good to connect like I said the government has kind of been strict so hanging out with dad has been fun too although we can hang out outside now so just so you know you can come to my deck dad I just want to say one final thing and I'm I in the clock on my computer because in just a few seconds the clock is going to tick from an interview of an hour and 45 minutes which you told me your dad and your uncle Marc did and it's going to tick to an hour and 46 minutes and I just want one time in my life to do a longer interview or a longer sermon than a Morgan that's what I want to do it just turned over so for everybody on the call we just did a longer session and Marc and Jeff Morgan to tape Morgan that's what we just did my master that were a little bit less than my father's contributions to that but I'm kidding oh this has been so much fun and celebration we've learned so much so again thank you both and I love you until next time we get to talk yes sir talks with you Dylan great to talk with y'all all right bye-bye bye-bye

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Length: 107min 11sec (6431 seconds)

Published: Fri May 08 2020