FTC TV: Robin Walker | Black history VS black studies, why we need both [SE1 EP4]

one day my mother stand off give them my chairs ladies and gentlemen my name that name German keep that my name is Richard black what I think but this is for the coach a teammate now I've introduced myself but to my right we have the woman that is timeless in age I think you leave here and just go sleep in a cocoon the one the beautiful Michelle go then to her right we have without doubt the the entrepreneur the the man behind the machine you know the catalyst from which all the drives I please make some noise for JB speak ok Jason back thank you thank you because today we have any a very special guest someone that is very very important to me a lot of the knowledge that I have acquired over the years I have I have learned at the feet of some of the Great's and one of our greatest teachers in this country are not overselling it by saying this by a longshot is the gentleman that we've got today my master teacher and he has imparted wisdom knowledge and understanding to many many many students across the I mean even got a college trained under him you know exactly so there's levels to this thing and this is the top level ladies and gentlemen rubbing salt salt it out sorry guys I just need to get Robin a call you to black history man yeah the black history man so first of all why the black history man and where did you get that power from like break that down it's what I do um the only problem is is that it stereotypes me because everyone thinks all I talk about is the past okay and very much when we talk about Black Studies and I also link it to personal development we also are talking about now and issues that the community will face in the future so I don't want everyone to think I just talk about what happened several thousand years ago although that's relevant and that shapes the present I also talk about what's happening right now and you know why the black history man it sums up pretty much where my early research went I started writing books beginning in 1999 my first book was called classical splendor roots of black history and that same but when he fatten it up fatten it up fatten it up it became my 2006 book when we won't I obviously have one rule and it is it is a it's an amazing piece of work just talk to us a little bit about some of the research some of the places that you went and some of the things that you have to get to actually put into I mean it is such and such a masterpiece but not just that it's got so much information in there um in putting when we're all together first of all it was a lot of fun to do oh a lot of people think research is really boring I love it I love reading that kind of thing I also went to lots of museums as well which is where I saw a lot of the artifacts a lot of our history and heritage is in European museums that blows a lot of people's minds but it's actually true a lot of it has been looted a lot of it has been given as gifts and the combination of looting and gift-giving is why so much of the heritage is dotted across museums so I went of different museums to see the heritage I took a trip to Africa to visit some of the Swahili ruin cities there are ghost towns along the East African coast that black people built over the last 1000 years and I went there armed with a very dangerous object a camera I'm pointed that dangerous object at these artifacts and did this now you may think well isn't that an obvious thing to do most people have been to Kenya they don't have any of these photographs it's like well what did you go there for and they went there to look at zebras and tigers and they didn't go there to look at any heritage yeah and my thing was get that kind of thing documented which is interesting because you always think of African ancient history as Egypt a little bit Libya you don't really think of Kenya so that's that's new to me because because Egypt Egypt's one of the places that I was always obsessed with as a kid so it's like literacy as I earned money it's one of the first places I really went and explored and it's quite a list of it but I wasn't aware of can your having ancient history still in existence at all buildings anyway yeah one of the the freakiest experiences was we visited a city called la mu which is just off the coast of Kenya and la mu is still a living medieval cities by stepping back in time and you're walking through these very narrow you know walkways and you've got these three and four-story houses either side of you you know lived in by black people and black children are coming out to play and that kind of thing and you're looking around it it's kind of medieval heritage and the drains next to the houses yes I said it drains you can still see them they're still then it's still alive the the doors with their brass bosses in designs and their central pieces and all their ornate nurse and grandmas are still there in Kenya this is in Kenya point but and but here's the thing you see this is the reason why I do what I do okay because right now your interest is like damn yeah right now that's the point and the the whole point of when it comes to history and heritage there's a lot of stuff in Africa that's like that but what it is is no one's flagging it up because unfortunately the Zebras there it is they've got the whole stage to themselves but you've just sold Kenya to me now because because people have suggested going to Kenya and Michos I think well I feel like myself like I was going to see the safari and not realize that as well then I would go to Kenya because it's like the mix of the Safari maybe I'm being a bit too a conspirator in my view but is there another reason as to why they hide these things like do they does it go against what they tried to stereotype of being African yes um and again this is why I do what I do because my thing is presenting our history in a respectful and dignified way um so few people have done it and in Britain the last person that you know went this way there was a white scholar dr. basil Davidson and he wrote a series of books in the late 50s the 1960s the 70s are many did a TV series arm in 1984 called Africa and it was an 8 part series brilliant stuff but that was where the research was that then and since him the only person who's really going there and going hard is in terms of putting the stuff out in book form I've got the game to myself which is a good place to be but it means that if anybody else wants to get in on the game you know come to you oh I'm the only other person you know the only other competitor one of the reasons why I do what I do is to encourage other black people who think that their heritage is worth investigating presenting and bigging up so what just I mean obviously that what you've just said is fascinating this is just one more one small kind of facet - yeah why is it that you find that black people are not interested in finding out because you reason why I say this is like everybody on the internet social media wants to claim that they woke everybody wants to claim I have you you know I had a friend every day some always joke about it she said to me was talking she goes do you know about the Anunnaki and I was like please enlighten me she you know but she just to me a fact I said that she was felt like she looked down on me like you didn't sell well but yet you don't know yeah Anunnaki so I didn't said it to Jason and Jason goes you know what be right you got all these people that reckon they're historians but all he done is they've read little segments off the internet and they reckon they know everything by and but and it it feels like what you've just said reinforces that because there are so many people that would probably watch this that would like to claim that they know this part of Kenya never knew why I mean that the so-called won't people it's like why is this why is it why is this the first time that we're hearing this why are there not other black men or women out there that are documenting things like this beside you you should not have this game to yourself right Jimmy like you know like as much as we we congratulate you for being a person that's within it that's that's opening people's eyes you should be one of many right you know so then I asked you who did you who was your motivation who was it who did you met who was your mentor because it seems like there was no one before you know they were but what they didn't do was put pen to paper didn't do okay okay so I studied with the gentleman called Kenny Bakey and he studied with another gentleman dr. femi Biko who is a very brilliant academic big love to dr. Biko watching this you know Big Love become another gentleman dr. Cecil gots more I think who Femi studied with what these people didn't do they didn't put pen to paper they were teachers they were lecturers they were compiling a lot of the same stuff that I now do but because they didn't put pen to then ultimately they would have pointed people to dr. basil Davidson they would have pointed people to other sources he had african-americans like John Jackson african-americans like Chancellor Williams people point you to these people too big respect to those scholars but these scholars were writing in 1970 1971 no one's really updated that research and again this is where I fit it because that's what I've done you touched on a really important point there because a lot of the black history stuff and a lot of the black that heroes from history it's always America even in Britain we really I mean Britain has got a rich history of especially you know after Windrush and and the impact that's right so why is it that and I'd say why is it like but why why is it always the Americans why do we not know more about black British history um in truth we're back to the same kind of problem if we were to look at black Britain we could look at the last 70 years of Windrush and it's a powerful story but you have to know it to know it's a powerful story and me and some colleagues including your your cousin Vinnie Co we did a book black British history black influences on British culture in 1948 to 2016 we didn't know where the research was going to end up but when the package finally came together we were looking it over it's like damn that's a powerful story because black Britain has had a civil rights struggle too now it's not as extensive as the african-american struggle but we have a struggle and the result is one of the reasons why so many black people outside of Britain want to come to Britain and they'd rather be here than in Calais or here then in Berlin is precisely because black Britain has had a political struggle and not only a political struggle for one so if you looked at the influence is that black Britain has had at least five white youth subcultures have their origins in black British culture yeah so you've got the mods you've got the skinheads you've got the punks you've got the 2-tone heads and you've got the chaps and so we've impacted on working class culture we've also impacted on intellectual and high culture you know the you know there's namely Boehner him in beat anything to you she's the the third black person to win the Turner Prize okay the third because I knew about Steve McQueen Steve McQueen and of course um Crisafulli I didn't know about behind him is Jesse's the most recent winner okay of that then you've got the the amount of black people at one things like Man Booker prices is a guy that won it for brief history of seven yeah so it's a situation where high and low culture and then you've got the impact that we've had on you know even European classical music Tina Kay Orchestra you got shaken cannon Mason the kind of Mason family well tearing up the gay are really killing the game yeah so can I ask you know this might sound like a very like a very silly question but how how did that take place because I can 46 so I remember I'm old enough to remember you're 46 but I'm old enough I was you know great up in the cemeteries to remember punk right to remember like toy wilcoxon that kind of error and you know Quadrophenia and that kind of no but but also understanding that score music definitely had a played a big part with the specials bad manners and those groups Bananarama only and it seemed like especially in their 70s and 80s it seemed like there was a real there was a time of real acceptance because I remember we used to have on channel I want to say BBC I don't think China for was around then but we had no problem would come home first and they would have reggae Sunsplash this was on terrestrial TV you know one after the other right you know and that was like a Friday night right you know so most black people stayed in their house watch no problem right and then watched which went for a number of seasons and then watch you know no problem was the first channel 4 sitcom Jennifer first not one of the first would be the first year you see that's what I'm saying like so do you go to imagine that started off channel 4 and as I said straight afterwards was would be regular Sunsplash and that's how I knew being a descent of Jamaica about people like e-commerce and stuff because I knew of them from watching radio some special speaker guys so so I get I got to learn about my culture in depth right be a you know the the the story of a black British Jamaican descendants living in no problem and then seeing the dancehall or early reggae in reggae Sunsplash how the question I'm trying to get to is how is it that we we was able to get that over here but yet you have Africans that have their history in the France or whatever but they don't seem to have the same doesn't make sense we would need to do a comparative study ok we would need to look at what are the factors that made the the black French story different ok yeah British story but certainly one of the the big differences was that black Britain has been able to sell on its popular culture to White Britain in ways that white Britain think it's cool to jump on it yes so so for example when the SKA thing started yeah the mod store that's cool will jump on that yes and then you had the proximity of black people and the mods living the same air so the mods would come to our house parties you know the ones with the big speakers and a lot the mods will reminisce about they they used to go to them things and that's where they heard see are blasting out loud yeah and then you then hear the skinheads talking about how they got into our music and culture that's right because the skinheads were the the people living next door to black people and some of them will explain that they they grew up hearing Trinidadian and Jamaican music all the time because that would be blaring through the walls and I don't know where the France has that kind of history or not yeah so this is intra this is so interesting because a lot of people if you say mods if you say Skynyrd's think racists moving nf think far-right and so you're saying that the originals were actually heavily influenced by Caribbean culture yeah but you could still be influenced by and still be racist but the skinhead movement has since split and one group have made it quite clear don't do not associate us with Nazis little shops against racial prejudice and they're the ones that have got you know CR titled over themselves right they're the ones that are they where the shop patch to make it quickly don't mix us off it was yeah absolutely Wow so you'll get you know there was something I download in show to some of my students you know the skin had anthem I want all you skin is to get up on your feet put your braces together on your boots on your feet the guy that did it was called Roy Ellis his other name is Sai Merrick and it's called skinhead moon stomp okay he's still around and he still performs for skinheads so you've got all these kind of Essex yeah skinheads and he's the only black guy in the house checking those lyrics and they all know it Wow and they wrote the earth and you'll get kind of degenerations because their culture is generational nine year old boys with the the braces and the pork pie hats and they're still ganking do you believe in multiculturalism do you believe in sharing everything that we have culturally so that we kind of assimilate as one or do you believe in in being quite specific culturally and I think this is us box that off and yeah sure you can listen but this is who we are and to make that really really strong indefinite yeah me on both on both um one of the things about being a minority in what's become somebody else's country is you know it's a good idea that they like you yeah just look at the numbers I just look at history right the Native Americans right yeah if our culture can help get liked obviously you don't end up with the problem of appropriation yeah yes and that problem I don't know how you lick that because if you were to look again we talked about the the 2-tone bands mm-hmm if you were to do a graph of how many black people are in the band and how successful the band was right the graph would look like this right and then so you can then plot it the most successful madness yeah the second most successful bad manners at one black guy massive ub40 were in Jamaica in Jamaica they were a global success right and then when you get to the nearly all black the selector as what actually had to go commercial yes we said that was a joke and nothing fair loved another one says a joke to him I think it was a matter of Commerce there's a matter of survival pain know what it was I remember hearing that Eddie gran had to do it and it became successful why I mean and that's a good point though that's a good point because I've heard you say before that the difference is because were in this country the kind of senses of the country's sort of you know what about 1 million then maybe 1.2 million 3 303 million does what they call they divide this up into black Caribbeans black Africans and black other black other will be the sprinkling of African Americans but also a huge proportion of mixed yeah ok and then when you add that together we get nearly 3 million million in a country of roughly 60 million so at that point we are not a nation we are an ethnic group which is something very different to what the African Americans have they're a nation a nation so huge and they can make so much moral difference by by galvanizing themselves as much as that we don't economically we don't I don't believe we have so much of the say I don't think that we we're just such a small proportion but when Martin Luther King said don't ride the buses that had a massive okay so then this is the thing because getting back to black America US history and black UK history we had a bus boycott yeah yeah but not many people in Bristol right but not many people know about the bristol bus boycott and the the reputation of the person that led it dr. Paul Stevenson we should be speaking of him in the same way as the African Americans of the Reverend dr. Martin Luther King and we're not and so if you're watching this dr. Stevenson Neal thank you we begin you up and and the thing beings I don't think I don't know but I don't think black France has got its produced that I don't think black Germany's produced that it's slightly different because what the French say to me or even when I go to st. Lucia to be on this day because France nearly one cent new should they always say we wish to France the French at one at least because they said at least it'd be French citizens like in st. Lucia you've still got write a letter to come here prove that someone's keeping you and you're going to be sent back in six months time in France your French citizen you're free to come and go with slightly different right impact in that sense because they are French and that's why the French are very keen to say that that French team whenever one's going it nation of immigrants are like no they're not immigrants they're French well I went to good loot the other day and it was interesting because I've only frequented a small amount of the Caribbean but it was the first time I saying to you off camera like that I saw white police I've never seen white police in the Caribbean in the Caribbean as a dominant force I can actually categorically say to you that I saw my eight days I was there I saw maybe about 10 different policemen not one of them was black and it wasn't the same person I was seeing right which told me that it was it was so weird because that told me that they I don't know I mean maybe you could tell me more that there must be a heavy influx of French money in this country that they're making sure that they protect everything because I've never seen that before I've never seen a black country that's not necessary governed to a degree by its own is there is any truth in that order no you you spotted something profound basically the extent to which France controls its x colonies in terms of ideology and in terms of practice was stricter other now Britain controlled it's okay in other words as you say there are you know black people in French colonies who really do think there yes whereas black people in the British colonies we thought we were British until we came here it didn't go down like that what you just hit the point because I was I guess I couldn't word it correctly but the time I was there outside of the police being white you could tell that the black people there didn't even seem Caribbean if that made sense that's it 100% French it was like I know this might sound very stereotypical but I wanted to hear a French accent but with a twang of something that that told me your carrot you're from the Caribbean if that made sense like you know you you know when you go to Jamaica or you go to other parts of the Caribbean where there are white people right you know and you look at me but okay you're gonna speak a certain way but they speak English but they speak with the twang where you go okay it's of that country but when I was in Guadeloupe everybody just sounded French there was nothing that if you heard two people and your eyes were closed and one was from Paris and one was from let's say uh coughing yeah do you think they were the same you couldn't hear the thing is they are still very proud that the French Caribbean friends that I have in the French like African plans that I have they always say you know I'm French but I'm African you know they've always made that very clear because they they've got still got a strong identity with Togo there are countries in Africa that they're from Cote d'Ivoire whatever well of course they have it's like this mix so wigs they have this kind of finesse the finesse mm-hmm of the French and and like they pick the best bits of that but they still say you know I'm very Africa and you still go they cook very African food and even my my friend shoot she's African descent but her husband was from Guadeloupe yeah she made sure she learned how to cook the Caribbean way and everything so they do have their their food and their culture it's just harder to differentiate I think because we're so a Jamaican is so Jamaican like you know would you make about something so it just walks in the room and you know they're Jamaican jus drein mean we have such a strong sense of I don't I think it's a bit hard we don't give that up as well I find that Jamaicans I'm not saying it French do they dunk before they do they were not obviously hold their identities robot I find even descendants of Jamaicans the ones that maybe were born here I include myself I'm I'm overly proud and I don't know if that's taught but I'm overly proud as being proud of your nation like I'm proud to be British of course but I'm overly proud of course I mean you're a historian so you would know is that something that we're taught it like subconsciously I don't know I mean what it is is that Jamaica does have a lot to be proud of okay which nation right Jamaica's pontas punch punches way above its way okay wait not just slightly but you know we were having a joke about trinny's so do they yes so if you were to look at a lot of black people of the 20th century mm-hmm famous ones important ones a huge disproportionate number come from the Caribbean . yeah you know most people present karabiners as a backwater it's long yeah we produced a Marcus Garvey with Jews and Stokely Carmichael we've reduced you know there's the the the list is long I mean even people like Minister Farrakhan so it's it's a long list but what happens with Jamaica because of the impact that two things really music and religion mm-hmm the fact that you know the whole Rastafari thing has gone all over the world and it's done it unlike of the wait you know most religions have basically murdered their way Rastafari hasn't done that yes very very true yeah and people as one Ruster put it you know it's the fastest-growing Livity on the planet and it's done it because people like the liberty and then that together with reggae as put together very very strong Jamaican brand but even without that Jamaica still punches you know heavy and hard as a Trinidad attorney that has done saying pretty much the same thing as well so there's lots to be proud of whereas for some places it's harder to do it when you can't point to anybody because and I've made you could help you do well you know historically we've been taught that you know some slaves that couldn't be controlled was sent to Jamaica right do we believe that I've heard it too okay I don't believe it that that sounds like you know themselves tricking I'll make my mum's Grenadian my - Jamaican but Jamaica's really do pride themselves on all the runaway slaves percentage Jamaica so we're a nation of strength because we had the most disobedient sleighs and the rebellious were put in Jamaica and that's made us such as strong people so it's in our DNA so you're saying there's no actual proof of that it's possible that there is such a record okay just I haven't seen it this is what we can definitely point to very specific slave rebellions in Jamaica yeah you can you can point to different things places like Barbados there's a lot less but then the geography of Barbados doesn't suit that you have to take the the whole island or nothing yeah and the the Beijing Posse tries to take the whole island they try to get as several early tried it in 1649 they tried it in 1676 and eventually when they hit bullseye was 1816 there was something called the buzzer so Jamaica was favorable in the sense that you've got you know the landscape is like this once you've got Peaks you can then hide out yeah and some places don't have that but all the places of God forgot Maroons that were never recaptured gaion I had Maroons that were never captured the United States Maroons that would never come I had never heard of that and you had one of the maroon communities in the United States was mixed with Native Americans they were called the Seminole Indian nation they were never captured they became a part of Florida in the 20th century by choosing to become a part of Florida no choice Wow so in other words so when people want to big up the Jamaican thing my thing is big up everybody and the most impressive maroon society that the blacks ever built in the Western Hemisphere was in Brazil the Republic do palmar - palmar dish was almost like an African state had been transported to Brazil the way the Constitution how it was set up it's a model example and it lasted for 100 years they were originally they were originally that eventually captured and destroyed but I had a 100 year history of an all-black what you could you know you can't even call it a kingdom an all-black Empire in Brazil of runaway slaves Wow and what sort of numbers did not getting we don't know um the books say 30,000 but I don't believe that because you then do the calculations then it seems that its capital city was 30,000 right does that make sense yeah and then you don't look at what would be the rest of the population then you've got you the people that would run away and you know 30 years later there's gonna be a lot of generations because people didn't marry does that make sense and that would then boost your numbers boost your numbers boost your numbers it's gonna ask once again I always put my hand up it sounds like a silly question I remember many moons ago I had a discussion with the young lady that I went out with so many years and she she said to me soon enough you'll find that there will not be a race of just black and white anymore it will be everybody mixed everybody because that's what that's where it's going I was going to ask you do you believe that the population of Africa alone and and the reproduction in the continent Africa I would say compared to Europe is there's a massive disparity ISM that there is that but it there's other issues too you can have a mixed population can but the problem is is if we look throughout history you don't have to look at how do you repent Street mixed populations and usually they will do so they will do some form of ethnic cleansing so that you can have a population that's mixed but then they'll clean that population out and then it will be back to what it was before there's an example of it okay okay Spain was ruled by Africans and Arabs for seven hundred years during the Middle Ages from Hannibal owned know from it starts with a guy called tariq eben zeod okay he was the governor of mauritania mauritania the land of the Moors yes and what happens is he is invited by his Arab Overlord to lead an invasion into Spain and that innovation takes place in 711 ad okay and then when people talk about the Moors in Spain it's it's the period that comes immediately after this all right so what you then end up with you end up with four dynasties ruling in Spain the first dynasty is called the Umayyads and they're of mixed African Arab descent so we can claim it the Arabs can claim it the second dynasty is purely African they're from Senegal okay the third dynasty is a black Moroccan dynasty called the alma Hadees the black Moroccans they ruled for the third dynasty and in the fourth dynasty the Nazarites are Arabs but they intermarry with us and by the time we get to their last King he's black so that period is where you start getting cities like Granada Cordova settle and if you go to the Spanish cities the stuff that Africans and Arabs built is still there you can still see these days I always wonder that because some did you see the architecture like Wow okay so yeah black people want to see that the heights from which we've fallen now as I said these Arabs and Africans so in other words some of that stuff is Arabic but some of it is definitely African particularly and how do they get wiped out well that's the thing you see they lost power in 1492 their last King the Europeans call him Bob dill his is Arab African name or there would be Abu Abdullah he loses power in 1492 he's exiled and his mum causes him out you know you weak son of a Watson and the Spanish reenact this oh wow they reenact this and they always have you know they always have black puppets representing the king right and his mother anyway cut a long story short you lose power he's still three million black and mixed-race people still living in Spain that didn't go entirely unnoticed that did not go unnoticed and so what happened was you had various Spanish and Portuguese kings and queens that is slide right you guys you know yeah you had basically they cleaned them out because because they always felt a different story but the same thing happened because they always say what they're literally no blacks that only South America there's always a black population except Argentina yes absolutely you know that the the tango yeah you know that was invented by black Argentinians yeah it's a black dance it's an african derived dance the originals called the tangora which is where we get the word tango from yeah so what you'd end up is by the time you get to round about kind of you know 1880 and so on you you might end up with people with black grandmothers but the population and yeah and that there are some stories I've heard I can't confirm them but that when Argentina has got into political battles there was policies to put black troops in the front line in that yeah so we bring it forward now and and and and some of the crises that we find the state of the black nation or group in the UK and things like gun crime things that night crime that that seemed to exclusively and I know people always like to say ah you know black on black crime but you know Asian people and have crime with Asian people and white people have crammed with white people and my thing is but that's not our business you know we need to kind of focus on what's happening without youth and and and you know and and so where do you think it's coming from and obviously I'm not going to say what are the solutions but what direction do we need to be moving from aim educational perspective to kind of address some of these issues the first thing I think is we're gonna have to have our own kind of commissions on exactly what is going on and I mean exactly where we try and do our own research into precisely where the the knife and gun crime and the the black economy the drugs where that all fits in and who has who's hooked up with who to make those kind of things happen I don't think we've had those those kinds of discussions so a lot of us think it's things like broken families single-parent female-headed households know fathers in the family does that make sense whereas that might be some of the problem yeah and you don't find out that some people really did have fathers so we need to do some serious research of our own into them the next thing of course we have to look at is the the changes in the code of honor right I mean back in the day I could beef with you but it me and you ain't got nothing to do with nobody else no one's calling up man's dem quote-unquote it's me and you and if I have to bring other people involved that's a loss of honor right yeah where did where did that honor go why does it that why is it that everyone has to call up 15 man's then what's that about and when did we stop calling that out and making quite clear you know if you have to call manage them to deal with your problem you are a weak you know what I used to do this in my standup and it's so prevalent to what you just said that even in our generation if you go back to the 80s when we were I guess like bored teenagers or bordering teenagers I never not even here by but like so by the time 1985 I was what 13 right 1986 and I remember that if you and I didn't stand up if you now if you see a guy and he's looking at you you would tap your building up come on man looking at us and us would straight away we go yeah looking at any we move to it but back in the day those words didn't have the same it didn't work because you said look my man looking awesome a man gone no bro he's looking at you so you go and deal with it yeah I'll watch I'll make sure no one else jumps in but you God and you had to say it was a time where the reason why I say this this threes mind a problem has now derived is that if you was a fighter back then number one it's because you earned it you weren't that stripe but two if you wasn't a fighter you was also cool because everybody was cool with play in their lane if you you know if you wasn't that guy guys that were fighters number one wouldn't pick on you because they understood that there was no honor in that if I if I moved to you and I beat you up the next fight is gonna go but that's like you did makes no sense he can't fight so you get no stripes for that I don't even like like I'm the only female here now I don't even like that talk of what was the best way to fight and what was I just think there's a lot of toxic masculinity within the black community no no no we do not address properly but what we feel is being a man in the black community look it defines being a man could you bring that point up again in about five minutes because that disk that the whole toxic thing needs a whole discussion just by itself because if you bring it into this is gonna not go where it should go right yeah and and and and and even adding to that what I'm saying is even though I I hear what you're saying but got understand as men alpha male or as male we we were born to protect right and not just our women but even our fellow brothers right you know so you've had you know I wasn't necessarily the fighter but let's say my cousins that were would be like he's good if he walks down this street you guys the Predators cannot touch him you're touching me I know God that's cool why do I mean so we that let's say that maybe the guys in class that were more the boffins or the people with that it's like he stands a chance right I mean so therefore he gets a pass but me and you can go all day long now when you see these young kids they're attacking the kids that are in their books that you know you're always thinking about these these kids that are like you know and part of they're not a part of it yeah why yeah and and what's happening is and so there's been a breakdown because like you when you start off by saying about the honor there was no honor in that even we even when wait you know like the English like too big up the craze and like you know we saw Matt this in a previous episode but one of the reasons why the British would big these guys up it always say they wouldn't they wouldn't attack anybody else but those people are doing what they're doing I mean if using evoke that cry but they see us them so polite you would never know right but it was a old-school thing and and I think what's happened is that there's been a breakdown of show you can explain much better than I can but there's been such a breakdown now especially within our community where there's honor doesn't matter no more right the idea the ideology of yeah but there's no one in there a man walls now come back he's robot all black don't business man's got to do what a man's got to do it it's like but you're not it's not you just doing it now it's like you say the mass is attacking one person and then congratulating yourself in fact that that one person that you thought couldn't fight you all back you see the way that we beat him down it's like whoa super what did you expect right whereas in my time my timeline I can remember if something like that happened probably an older will come and slap us all up like so Whitney you all were attacking this one person why do I mean and we'll be embarrassed sort of that that maybe was even caught so what would you what do you think what would you what do you think I don't know what the the trigger was yes the old situation to the present situation I know when it happened yes it coincides with the jungle years I mean no district disrespect to the jungle its Posse that's when that rubbish kicked in that's when the whole postcode thing kicked in if you think about it before that there was no such thing as a postcode very true very true I was I you remember when we was kids right we could go to everywhere a jungle came elephant castle all the time like you didn't know no one would say bravo NZ right mean like I remember going to Fuji Park and and and thinking like Rob's far away from home yeah right but no one was calling and you're right because the jungle came in when I was probably early twenties right I mean and so it was the generation under me that all of a sudden was be from be the guy that lived in a certain area like I used to live in freeing house in Stockwell and I remember across the road from my estate was I mean when I mean across the road the main roads doctor where the swamp puppies across the road he's another estate dos two estates I'm beefing and it's like but I remember when I was living there I used to run across and play with my cousin's in that same mistake who couldn't wait to run across the road and the road was in our way right I mean now it's the thing that it's like the divider stops us from killing each other and that's what I'm saying the postcode thing became rife thereafter I mean I again the answer is very complicated but it's got to be tied in with economics right it's got to be tied in I mean that just doesn't make sense to me that we're all living in such a confined space and it seems that the more integrated we become in Britain the more problems we seem to have as an ethnic group as opposed to when well my uncle's you know it was you see an ex black guy down the road you're gonna walk with that guy because the integration hadn't taken place so we may have needed protection from the skinheads there and F once oh yeah do you got mom trying to sell the Teddy boys or whatever it was so it seems that the more integrations happened the more divided we've become they're definitely an element of that but the the role of music and musicians can't be ignored - and I'll tell you why if you watch some of the old videos from the 80s again we've been doing this with my with my school students arm the the soul the the black British song years you know people like junior people like shoddy people like loose ends if you look at the way they looked there was nothing ghetto going on look at the people in the audience's they were suited you make us go mud Club and all that remember you remember my club bass to check you you could only get in on the way you were dressed right so they're literally going on the land go you can come in so you have to really make an effort but then when hip-hop came in to be first when I first like raving in trainers to be fair because you wanted to die money to door there however moves how were buff I will so this in and I'm not saying that you're he was even going out the road but in defense they pop hip-hop once again it was especially in the 80s 90s was the best type of sound 80s there in terms in terms of lyrics and in terms of upliftment right in educating I was like what mine was doing in Amin was go square just incredible oh and and mainstream to make super pill but but so hip-hop there was the you know remember hip-hop stopped the violence hip-hop you had caressed one with self-destruction and at the West Coast with their version and blah blah so anytime that they saw their communities was get in our hand right they would all collaborate and make sure that that was squashed hip-hop music was very much about the empowerment like I remember Grandmaster Flash when he did the message right he was actually it's so weird because he was actually describing how disco music gives you the glitz and glamour when we're not really living that yeah why so his thing is the message is like yo I mean right but so we but I didn't know that it was a message to disco music like stop trying to glorify this lifestyle that we're not really living it's really real here right but he still even though he's described it he was saying but don't push me close to the edge right I still don't want to go down the road even though I'm surrounded by all this madness so so hip-hop even then in the message came out I was in Brooklyn 1981 right it was describing chaos but even within it he was saying but I will not pander to that chaos I was still whole strong I think that there is definitely and I think he's possibly canoe foo that says that the or madhubuti one of those authors talked about hip hop and say about that but the complexity hip hop versus marts conjure fool can do food versus mart-mart the ancient Egyptian goddess that represents the law okay okay I've explained more cuz I'm not what basically I mean Robin could definitely explain better than me but what what what what he says is that when I say that the complexity of it is is that for an eye experience there in and of myself is that when I was in Thailand and people would see me in Thailand there was all this automatic kind of do you got one saying it was this it was it was it was a badge of honor it was almost like you know there was a positive PR campaign whereas a lot of the time we focus on the neck okay pop music and also you know the prettiest girl in the class is usually I think you know it's a black girl why because in hip-hop videos so it is complex because in one breath hip-hop music is a good PR if for me it was it was my youth movement and and hip-hop was a very positive had a very positive effect on me and the people that I knew however I did see I did see a lot of change in the 90s to be honest when it did become about cars and bling w a whirl whirl whirl and w-wait obviously once once the west coast gangsta rap came out and it and it squashed news we got remember LL Cool J never small in a record ever random scene never ever swore in any of their records never carrots were never not okay it's when NWA came out swear a ring vanity and their will is that that sold everyone and East Coast became very much like we're losing this race they fell off like they were dead East Coast was dead what did we get we saw it with your right biggie brought back right but we saw it that the rivalry that became became very big because West Coast I remember being 16 and I went past Bluebird Records and Stratton and what drew me in the shop was I heard after police I heard the words right I remember walking past oh now this is hip-hop I grown up on him up and I stopped and went what what and I walked in the shop right right because it was playing out loud I never heard swearing in until that point we know so I walked in the shop and it was Mickey we have a girlfriend of time I said so what was that your plane and the man cuz a white guy maybe laughs he where it's NWA and I what does that mean he goes you read it and I really why are we know he doesn't say that he goes that's why I told you to read it I like an eagle he played me gangster gangster I he played me that I as bad as this sounds I said it's my god you buy this I had that one loose I had that album on Luke to have it right but the wheel and make this is a good question for you so now I've gone home I had to tell it down low like I was a Richard Pryor tape like you know when you're young I played it and I ain't astray I come from blah blah and I work back to back blah blah blah right crazy I met scoop and her in my dad well possibly what's really great I'm in here right and I said nice in in the book and he goes one that stepfather I said you read it him say you play this in my office yeah but the weirdest thing is that even though it was huge violence in hip-hop especially like the way is in UK now in terms of the street wasn't like that even though we had a heavy influx of because it was the first time we had heard it but yet for some reason because I know he's saying about music plays a big part but yet for some reason maybe you could have you this why is it that we knife crime and gun crime didn't rise in such a way when we was hearing it for the first time and we was blown away by it whereas now we're in the music it's not it's like a given but yes it's risen in such a way no I think what it is is um the difference in aspiration because the the time when NWA and that kind of thing was kicking off first of all all young people weren't into it yes very true right it would have been a section yes and you still had the high aspiration thing of the soul artists it was still suited yeah I mean people like people like a Morrison T well he was soot didn't get any more polished and you know Lyndon David Hall classy though ya know and so but what's happened is is with crime and will certainly start with jungle and it's continued with grime the the whole kind of aspiration has just got ghetto you know and there's nothing to counterbalance it there's no black British salt on a Linden David Hall level I've got things as well I mean what else was going on at the time I mean you know nice to be adjustment in those days you'd Courtney pine some serious aspirational disappointing about NWA when I watched the film and stuff is actually how contrived it was it was also deliberately well no it was easy who couldn't rap who realized that the profanity works we're getting attention so more of that so it was very very very contrived and very deliberate and and and that's how I find most hip hop now funnily enough it's not becoming an art form it's now just across it is about crafting as many sales likes so listen cuz we got we've got a wrap up soon but but something was mentioned earlier and I really do want to sort of touch on the community I just want to touch on that just briefly Michelle said and and and what is your thoughts on because if there's a part that I definitely agree with what are your thoughts on that it's very very complex it's very very complex because a lot of young men who hear the term toxic masculinity um will take it as they're being insulted okay and they're being insulted for doing things that young men are supposed to do young men are supposed to chat women up young men are supposed to do them things and if they don't they don't get to marry they don't get to date they don't get to reproduce and consequently this idea that it's toxic is itself a problem now what will happen is this if you put the idea out there that male behavior is toxic it will have the biggest impact on beta males who will agree and who will then moderate their masculine see even more it won't touch the alpha male right and now and what you then end up with is the the dating profile in the black community will be more and more skewed towards alpha males because the beta males would just be out competed so in other words they're not gonna speak to women on road because that's street harassment they're not gonna speak to women at work because that's hashtag me to be the beta males that will say men only this yeah and then what then happen is is that those guys will just end up single when I think about toxin masculine I don't think about it as chatting a woman up because that's that's one thing but it's more the kind of this kind of pressure to be yeah but here's a point as a point simple question women out here listening to this real talk do you like nice guys I do you drop the science on this um the right stuff yes you drop the science on that bro yes so true yes so true yes I did yes I did I mean and it's right because what it is is that we live I'm glad you saw that but I was thinking man I wish I had that one you know you should have got the thing yeah on tape because you dropped the science bro no thank you sir no it's it you see what it is is that because I admitted now because at the end of the day that there is there's this counter business balance of you do like a strong alpha male because it's obvious it to you so those things are quite attractive because she it's quite attractive it's nothing like me he's very masculine that's good maybe but why but what I was saying with unfortunately males is that sometimes we're so we're strong but sometimes we don't know how to share we don't know how to show vulnerability and that's what's important now but also the flip side of that is that sometimes our women don't also allow us to be vulnerable right because especially at certain times right they want like the the program power and I'm not so much on it but program power I thought it was very clever how initially ghost's wife ghost was saying it's time for us to stop selling drugs and go the straight route we can find a route out we've got kids and his wife is saying but that's not the man I went out with you was ghost he was the person that everybody was talking and I remember thinking whoever wrote this is so clever because you would always think they'd be the woman that would say that but it was actually ghost game this year and I look the part like these people believing me I've got this business bla bla bla bla and the woman is actually saying to him well where's ghost where is the man and you know we as men once a woman starts to question her like investigate us like that and say well where's your man where's the man inside you and you go whoa whoa so then we find that we lean on that pressure on that okay that's what you want as opposed to going no actually no at this time there's gotta be a time where me as the alpha male I can calm that down jump in on that yeah uh even reading an article and it was a discussion between um dr. Dre and his woman over almost exactly the same thing he wanted to stop doing gangster right there you go she told him no and you think to yourself like hold it a minute like you can still say just because she said no it doesn't mean you have to do it this is wife though the thing is you you this is one of the things that I think women don't understand in terms of their power we all know that there are men out there that can treat some women bad and bla bla we get that unfortunately there there's a small ratio or maybe even a large ratio that's like that but when a man finds his queen you me there's not much actually content to do that you won't do he wasn't he wants to please her and that I understand that but with me with the toxin masking when the man's vulnerable I want you to tell me like if if you're if you're paranoid about something and we'd have that discussion that's fine but when a lot of the toxic masculinity turns vulnerability into anger so rather than you're feeling vulnerable you feel insecure rather than say I feel insecure about this than the other what it tends to be is a shouting angry you're not doing there's that you're not doing that that's a problem if if women were in a situation where if a man is vulnerable they will say yep okay talk cool you said now you back in the day you back and they were defied that dude Rob way can we find out more about where can we hear more about you where can we get from you okay um my main workplace is cordoned supplementary education project big up to the CSEP Posse we Saturday school we run a night school and we do adult education classes which would include things to do with black history so Google loss si se P we have a you know a Facebook Twitter whatever check us out me my website is called when we're all calm and people can see not my main book and it will lead you to my other things and otherwise I'm on Facebook check me out and I can let people know what I'm doing and obviously it's Black History Month so this is my busiest month of course no doubt no doubt Robin it has been an absolute pleasure I wish we could go on and on only behaved people gonna ask for you back Oh without now get back on no doubt I mean we are we need to scratch the surface so um but thank you for coming through big up definitely for the culture for the culture [Music] [Music] jpn Comics presents hair room when an asteroid falls from outer space to earth a runaway slave bind the asteroid and is endowed with superhuman powers he sets about on a mission to free his people and change the world unknown to him the very asteroid that gave him his powers carries a dark secret that could destroy the world arrrooo the first hero

Channel: For The Culture TV

Views: 30,606

Keywords: for the culture tv, for the culture, jason barrett, richard blackwood, michelle gayle, leon oldstrong, solaris2, podcast, talkshow, black community, black history, Robin Walker, Robin Walker Black Studies, Robin Walker History, Robin Walker Black History Man, Robin Walker Black History

Id: gCwdTcT3VXw

Length: 67min 47sec (4067 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 18 2018