FSR3 On Console Simulation Tests: Can It Really Work?

so last week um at the end of the week on Friday no less um AMD decided to quote unquote drop um FSR 3 it was launched in two titles on PC uh spor foken and uh Immortals of avum um I've done a video on it Alex has been busy on forer yeah sorry SP folen just got me through it came out of nowhere the original plan was that I'd just do a quick look you know here's a quick look for at FSR 3 before um Alex takes a longer look at it because I had the hdy 2.1 capture card and Alex was busy with forsa my my quick look turned into a 20-minute video which which you know turned out to be quite a lot more effort than I intended to put not quick not quick so yeah please do check that out but um one thing that I was thinking of doing for the video but didn't really have the time or the energy to be frank was um the concept of how FSR 3 could be deployed on Console because um we've kind of ruled it out in in Prior discussions but obviously the code itself works it you know it's cross vender it's a compute Shad it work on anything basically and um now this week um ascendant Studios the creators of Immortals of of avium said they're looking into FSR 3 on consoles um which was enough to make me fire up my old Frankenstein PC which you can see in the background there oh yeah which is the actually the Xbox series X CPU paired with a GPU the RX 6700 that has a lot in common with the uh the makeup of the PlayStation 5 GPU so it's you know basically as close as you're going to get to a console in PC form and let's take a look at FSR 3 running on it now I'm going to start off with what I would just expect to be the use case for FSR 3 which is to take uh um a game that's targeting 60 frames per second and move it into high refresh rate territory Beyond 60 and um is tricky I think is is the takeaway um 1080p output here I'm actually using FSR performance mode so it's 540p internal and you kind of have to expect that right because bearing in mind the game launched with like 720p internal resolution targeting 60 um then yeah obviously there there's got to be some realism involved here 1080p 120 on the capture but we're getting about a 90 frames per second average it can go from like six sorry 70 odd to 100 I think is the Delta John that's not really what we'd want from a high refresh rate experience with FSR 3 I think it just doesn't really hit the target uh no I mean this is a tough one to talk about because I have not seen this at all myself yet so just based on the the musings you've been sharing some of the some of the stuff there will be some capture that you can look at but not now obviously yeah it's too late I can't see it but uh I mean it the the biggest takeaways from everything you've said is just the lack of proper vrr and vsync and everything and like the kind of jutter you get when you dip outside the range right yeah that's right I mean in the main content it is the case that it seemed to be only vsync that works which basically Al means that you can Propel yourself into the high refresh rate window sorry I I meant that vsync works it's no vsync doesn't work but even though it's vsync it's not vrr so you get you get the jutter that's the problem yeah mhm yeah that's the thing right and I can actually show this with this bit of footage here which is uh shot from my own LG uh C10 where you can see the frame rate on the top right there and you can see the refresh rate on the bottom and um it's basically Lo locked to 118 uh Hertz which is basically where it's getting a vrr signal but not actual any variable refresh rate information so the question is whether that would apply on consoles if it if it does then it's probably a write off uh if if somehow system level vsync does work uh on Xbox and Playstation for examp well it wouldn't work from PlayStation without bespoke coding but on Xbox maybe it would work i' suspect not but it's not really I think the bottom line is it's not really what you want FSR 3 to be doing it's kind of like 120 or bust I think personally or very close to yeah yeah um but you have seen this footage which is an experiment I did earlier which is um this is an 1800p output resolution um 60 frames per second with FSR balanced mode and it is mostly 60 frames per second and I didn't actually say what this footage was I just uh dropped it on our slack Channel and asked uh everyone what they thought so Alex I'm going to ask you what you think um I think it reminds me a lot of what I saw when I was doing my testing uh for dss3 uh back in the day like when I because I I thought back then like dlss 3 can do 30 to 60 FPS conversions as long as the the content is appropriate for it so no High camera movement uh a lack of like dramatic third person animation uh and just lot a lot less Parallax and I think the footage you dropped showed off really well that if you've got motion Vector data and you also have um like these flu fluid motion frames uh that they also use with it the uh I always forget the word of this thing what is that other technique called they call it FMF uh but uh fluid motion Flames yeah but there's a more generic term for it I forget it sorry don't worry about it but when you combine those two techniques you can actually make compelling animation interpolation and it looks fine enough the thing that I would doubt though is like whether it holds up for a broader range of content necessarily and broader range of styles and lighting and also inbut latency is a whole other question but I found that least on dlss back in the day that 30 to 60 input latency in the games I tried it in I would definitely not want to play with the mouse that's for sure it well absolutely yeah but this is about console so yeah so yeah well it's definitely laggier that's for sure but it's not unplayably bad um and if you think about it there's such a broad range of different input lags across a vast range of console games and I think people just generally tend to get on with it you know that's it's only when you've got when you've got high input lag plus frame rate drops that you move into this sort of unacceptable territory and you know if you think about it on the PS 360 era specifically there were a ton of games on Xbox that would double buff buffer and a lot of games on PlayStation 3 would triple buffer therefore that's a big difference yeah dude I just realized that's that's why they that's why they use triple buffer on there it's the PS triple triple we finally got to the bottom of it you can't double buffer on the triple yeah so one thing that I'm curious about is obviously anti-ag plus is uh limited to rdna A3 for reasons that I don't think have been explained um From amd's perspective uh necessarily yeah um it seems like a software lock I don't understand why yeah cuz yeah obviously Reflex on Nvidia side at least applies to any RTX capable GPU but that would be one thing and older yeah and one thing I'd be really curious about then is like FSR 3 on Console like would they be using the equivalent of anti-ag plus things there probably right isn't isn't that sort of thing the sort of thing they should be doing anyway they should be but yeah obviously not every developer like we've seen so many Unreal Engine 4 titles launched on the like PlayStation consoles with like obscene input latency even though they don't need it right so like it's it's more of a developer question at that point but I would I would hope if that FSR 3 is launching on console that it also has a great amount of input latency documentation you know like saying like how you can reduce it on the council side even yeah well it's an interesting discussion that we were having based on this 60fps footage is that I mean obviously water of avium shipped with FSR Ultra performance mode so it's was basically upscaling to 4K from 720p and this is more of a balance between higher native resolution but getting to 60 FPS with frame generation so it's kind of like a balance of frame generation artifacts versus FSR 2 artifacts and it's actually quite interesting I think based on my testing with FSR 3 is that the FSR 2 artifacts are more infusive to uh to the presentation of the FSR 3 frame generation yeah so you've got this interesting idea of balance between two different systems that will introduce artifacts and the extent to which you might want to favor one over the other or to balance them in in favor of image quality uh versus input lag or stuff like that I'm I'm very curious to see a um whether ascendant Studio do actually ship something with FSR 3 on console and what form it's going to take I mean I've put forward two different potential scenarios here of how it could be deployed or maybe they've got their own maybe there's some you know secret source that we're just not aware of but I don't think so um I was surprised I mean one thing that I should point out about this 60fps footage right is that um you you do need overhead above 30 to make it work the game's kind of got to run at 40 FPS uh that sort of ballpark to to lock to 60 uh if the base f rate goes below that then you know basically you don't get 60 on the output and that kind of puts into question the whole point of doing it in terms of performance testing it was mostly at 60 um I did try with FSR performance mode which would be preferable for obvious reasons but it just dropped a few you know quite a lot more frames whereas with balanced it was mostly 60 with just some drops issue being that when it does drop it you know vsync doesn't really behave the way it normally does with Fame gen so that there are other issues there certainly an interesting tool that developers have to play with and I'm going to be interested to see how they how they deploy it I mean there's going to be a lot of games that probably do sort of run at say 40 FPS that aren't fast action games yeah that might just look better by using frame J my my feeling on this is that it's and I said this before but I think it's still best suited to somewhat lesser demanding games to get up to 120 like let's say you have like a sides scrolling kind of action game or something like that and you're already getting 60 enough head room there but maybe not enough head room to get actual 120 frames per second uh this might be something worth looking at right right yeah possibly yeah the slower the game movement the the better frame generation is that's the bottom line that's true that's true yeah yeah one thing I do want to quickly insert at this point since we're talking about 1080p 1220 is that I did actually try um 1080p 1220 with FSR Ultra performance mode which will look horrible let's make no bones about it but I just wanted to see the exact level of frame rate that I you know maximum frames that I could extract from Immortals of avum at 1080p but it didn't really make any difference and I suspect that's because we're likely CPU limited um so you know it can only sort of upscale up from whatever the input is and if the input is limited by CPU that's that's problematic right you're not going to get 120 it's just um been really interesting first of all I was pleasantly surprised to see how good 60fps looked um but at the same time it did reinforce to me that a lot of what we said a few weeks ago about expectation management with FSR 3 is kind of borne out it has a cost it's not just you know two times frame rate for for nothing you know but certainly interesting experiment I enjoyed it um if I'd had more time I'd have done spor foken as well but unfortunately I didn't spor foken cuz that one is seemingly already running quite well at 60 now on consoles yeah it is now running better yeah MH okay but yeah certainly an interesting tool for developers um I do think the uh FSR 3 itself on PC needs more work and the the comment I got from AMD about vsync off not working um suggests that they are work they are looking to improve move the matter there um so let's just quickly um uh address a couple of supporter questions we had on this topic this one from zepa hidf exclamation hidf team exclamation point the latest patch notes for immortals of AVM State uh will have more information on FSR 3 for consoles in the future how would frame generation on consoles work here is there any chance this will be a good experience well there is some chance I think we just proven it I don't think 120 is doable I might be wrong there but that does seem like the most obvious Target for a game that's already targeting 60 um and the other option is to improve image quality at the expense of um frame generation artifacts if you're targeting lat 60 frames per second uh this one from uh my favorite supporter name at the moment with the uh uh notable exception of agonizing rectal pain Dr I craen says will RTX 3000 Series owners be able to use dlss super resolution with FSR 3 frame Chen and that's unfortunately no yeah um the thing that annoys me a bit about Immortals of avium is that um obviously it is a system limitation with FSR 3 frame generation it requires FSR 2 inputs right and I can understand that you know they explained it to us at Gamescom but at the same time they've locked out um dlss from using um uh Native resolution and FSR 2 inputs there's no reason why they had to do that and and um it just makes life difficult for us because we can't do absolute Apples to Apples comparisons of actual frame generation maybe something can be hacks around in that but TR try good fun good luck with that Alex yeah good luck Alex

Channel: DF Clips

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Id: YRLwnlqh0UE

Length: 14min 49sec (889 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 12 2023