Franciscan University Presents: How to Read the Bible

do you need a PhD or Holy Orders to interpret the Bible not according to today's special guests Franciscan University theology professor dr. Scott Hahn join us as we explore what dr. Hahn's newest book spirit in life has to say about how Catholics are called to read and experience the Word of God in the church today I'm father Michael Scanlon Chancellor of Franciscan University in Steubenville Ohio and you're watching Franciscan University presents stay with us talking about how to read the Bible we have a regular host here dr. regis martin professor systematic theology and a regular substitute professor dr. mike Sorella assistant professor of theology and our regular panelist is now our guest today on how to read the Bible dr. Scott Hahn and we could say too much about him or too little I'm gonna go for the second rather than the first he has his doctorate in biblical theology from Marquette University a professor of Scripture is taught here since 1990 at Franciscan University delivers many talks writes many books has many articles and you see them on EWTN and also it's a periodic and regular programs and he and his wife Kimberly have six children and two grandchildren among his books the lamb Supper reasons to believe and the topic of today's discussion spirit and life essays on interpreting the Bible in ordinary time so Scott here we go let's start with the basics what does the church mean by word of God well the Word of God is what we typically associate with the Bible and that's right because it is the inspired Word but what the church means by the Word of God is the Incarnate Word Jesus a person before it's ever a book and it's a helpful reminder not just because we're Catholics and that's the party line but because as followers of Jesus we recognize Jesus never wrote anything and he never told the disciples write this in remembrance of me he said do this in remembrance of me and he was speaking not about a book but about a sacrament the Most Blessed Sacrament the mass and so when we read the scriptures and we get our bearings we recognize that what is front and center is not a book but the second person of the Godhead who became man he took what is ours to give us what is his and yet with Christians are frequently labeled the religion of the book followers that the book is everything so how accurate is it to make book the Bible so central it's an it's an inaccurate statement to say that Christianity is riveted in the book I mean that is something that Judaism affirms about itself and likewise Islam and Protestants have sort of co-opted that phrase for their understanding of Christianity and so they will declare themselves to be a riveted religion in the book but the Catechism states it very clearly that Christian faith is not a religion the book it's a religion of the word but the word is a person and then it's also a book and one other in the sacrifice of the mass then we have the Eucharist how important is the Word of God there well yeah it's not just the pitcher warming up before the game because the Liturgy of the word is an essential part of the mass and you get this sense not just in the 21st century but back in the 1st you go back there and you read that story in Luke 24 about the disciples on the road to Emmaus and here is Jesus you know not recognized but he's opening up the law and the prophets and showing how the Christ must suffer and then rise but only in the breaking of the bread or their eyes opened and so the church learned this to full pattern that the Scriptures are ultimately what prepare us for the grace that illuminates Jesus real presence in the Eucharist 'ok breaking of the bread but at the same time the eucharist is what fulfills and actualizes the saving through the scripture and so they really are coordinated this is a means to an end but Eucharistic communion that's the goal well Jesus opens their eyes to recognize him and the trip to Emmaus but then when he goes back in the Upper Room meets with disciples he opens their mind to understand Scripture that's right even while he enjoys a meal so once again it's Scripture and it's fellowship it's a it's a it's a meal and the purpose of this word is Union and eternal life sharing in God's eternal family life and part of what that is as our Lord Himself says in John 17 is that they may know it's personal knowledge of Father Son and Holy Spirit so part of the function of the word and the liturgy is to engage bring the mind into this personal communion and then the Eucharist fulfills that yeah I'm glad you say that because when you look at John 17 the high priestly prayer Jesus is talking about that they may know you I mean Jesus was Jewish and the disciples were Jewish and the Jewish understanding of knowledge is so much more than intellectual is I mean it goes back to Genesis three and four Adam knew Eve this is interpersonal Communion experience great experience so the word is central and scripture forms part of the Word of God and so does tradition but but if somebody had to say this in this discussion so I'll say st. Jerome's has ignorant subscribers ignorant of Christ which which indicates it implies the purpose the purpose of the written revelation of the Word of God is to bring us into not just abstract intellectual knowledge but a Hebrew experiential knowledge of mine heart personal interpersonal communion of knowledge and love it's important I think to maintain distinctions you've captured that I think nicely with the title of your book spirit and life you're talking about ordinary time but you do so in a pretty extraordinary way so there is another distinction the word became flesh the word did not become paper and when you sit in front of this word made flesh in Eucharistic Adoration you don't talk to a book you're talking to a person who's in flesh mint is right there before you but the book is important it's it's instrumental it's sacramental it signifies I mean that the Catechism says by all of these words a myriad of words God speaks the single utterance of his word yeah but we also have thousands of years of disputes about what it's yeah what do they mean it means well you know you've just pointed out something that we can just build upon for a moment because in the Catholic tradition we subordinate the word inspired the word incarnate who is present in the Eucharist and you might say well Catholics then demote the Bible No you know in a certain sense you know you might be number one as mayor of Steubenville or you might be number two as vice-president of the US but when you find the Bible in the Eucharistic liturgy of the church even though it's subordinated to the Eternal Word made flesh nevertheless it is elevated and empowered to reveal mysteries that go beyond any Bible study it becomes living word of sexualizing voice of cross the text you know when the Bible is read in the mass as the Catechism makes it clear so the Scriptures make it clear Jesus is the one speaking that that's right and that transcends the controversies in the sense that the proper modality the proper context for this speaking of the word is is litter is liturgical and it's a very different mode than the mode of academic dispute or the conflicts that have arisen over the words which are important there are many writings by the disciples of Jesus by the Apostles there are many writings passed down we see new movies about them all the time these days and so how did the church decide well let me clarify it because you've made a good point that there are many writings by the disciples you know I like the Gospel of Thomas well you know close scrutiny even by non Catholic scholars recognized you know it shows that the Gospel of Thomas is a forgery it's a gnostic gospel that was written pseudonymous li pretending to be thomas the apostle and there are others to the gospel of Peter the gospel of Paul you know these these these forgeries were circulating widely in the church really they were circulating widely outside the church the church they'd tend him to be forgeries who are they just saying free license that in the spirit of well I think they were intended to be I think that they were I think somebody who forged it might have passed the polygraph I'm saying I think I'm capturing this and the latest the latest hoax I think is the alleged letter from Judas is credit whole structure of of the gospel yeah April the con and others have done so much good and debunking these sorts of things that you know you don't have to be a Catholic to have enough common sense to recognize the difference between something authentic and something it's right historically unreliable and and I mean what becomes of Christianity if the guy who betrayed Jesus is given the last word right and what's your question really leads us to us to recognize that the canonization of the Bible that produced what we would call the table of contents you know it took place over centuries it's important to recognize that the first books of the New Testament weren't written until 15-20 years after the church had been started at Pentecost and it was up and running spreading widely and so the gospel was being preached before the Gospels were written the Eucharist was being celebrated as the New Covenant before the New Covenant the New Testament was ever collected and so by 395 we have a Canada 393 395 397 those are the three sinners in North Africa that meet to decide upon okay these are the 27 books that will make up our New Testament but going back much earlier in the 4th century you've already had the bishops convening at Nicaea coming up with the Nicene Creed and they knew what books were right and they knew what books they were you know reading and debating when it came to Hamas that Christ is of one being well you know consubstantial with the father so the Bible was really there from the end of the first century it's finalized at the end of the 4th century but the discovery that historians make that really opened my eyes was that the Bible was an ecclesiastical document it was a liturgical book so that when the bishops finally got around to deciding these books are in those books are out the decision was largely based upon the fact that for the last two or three hundred years these books were the ones that were being proclaimed in the liturgy and those books never found their way in and so the Canon of the mass like the Canon of the Bible is a liturgical act and so the Bible is a liturgical book first and foremost an atheist who looks at this objectively could draw the same conclusion yeah but among Christians the distinction is not that subtle we relativize the book because it's not the centerpiece Jesus is he is the living revelation of God it's relativized but it's not rendered irrelevant we need it it's indispensable it's a way of accessing God and to think that it was unimportant would be blasphemous but Jesus didn't come to write a book he came to found a church to Wed a people to fashion a body that body the church then sits in judgment upon the book and he did that through the Apostles and their successors and he didn't he didn't appoint apostles and have them appoint successors just to condemn heresies you know they were to proclaim the gospel but you can't proclaim the truth of the light without exposing darkness and you know defining the boundaries between truth and error so the written word then is not chronologically first it emerges from the sacred tradition of handing on the deposit of revelation that who is a person three persons the Trinity so the so write the the word is relativized in an instrumental way because it's an instrument like sacraments or instruments to bring us into union with God and there is the role of faith the Bible has historical elements and is susceptible to historical vestigation absolutely but without faith it remains largely when you die and let's say you go to heaven Jesus is not gonna say okay open your books here's the Bible verse we're gonna discuss Protestants say where's the Bible gonna say where's the Eucharist right I mean at that point we see face to face faith hope they go this is reading itself has to be from the heart of the church yes you have to be grounded in the right place to read it correctly that's right and it's not just a matter of the heart versus the head what we're saying is that knowing is ordered to loving you know within the soul the intellect comes with the truth so that the will might choose the good and come to love that's even true within God you know we have knowing is ordered to loving so we have to study so much of reading the Bible is as I like to put it 99 parts perspiration one part inspiration it's a lot of work it's a big book but I think if we're put off by you know the the jungle of the old testament and the new we've got to recognize that the word incarnate Jesus is much more inexhaustible know than the Bible so this is like preparation I mean if you really want to come to know Jesus and find out how inexhaustible the truth that is love is this is good training yeah well Scott you've been perspiring for years I think and the result is some of us feel inspired by what yes by the sweat of your brow so thanks well thank you when we come back we want to pursue this matter of the Word of God being first Jesus Christ and his centrality and what that means and how that gives us direction to deal with reading the Word of God stay with us I like to use the scriptures especially during the holy hour because it can structure my prayer and I'll start with the Psalms praising the Lord and then I'll move on to scripture readings and Psalms that focus on repentance and I think that's the best way to pray using the scriptures because it is the Word of God given to us well I'm able to listen to the scriptures in mass and I'm able to go to almost daily Mass and then I get to read the scriptures in my prayer time every day which is great and it's been a great way that God has spoken to me about my life individually here at Franciscan students recognize their vocation as a student study and get their work done and be a good nurse or be a good doctor or whatever they want to do and they take it seriously I feel that the presence of the sacraments on campus specifically confession and the Eucharistic Mass helps me develop a really personal prayer life with Jesus Christ my Savior it's awesome the people here are so energetic about their faith and I think Franciscan has the perfect blend of everything Franciscan University is academically challenging and passionately Catholic talking about how to read the Bible with our special guest who's a regular participant and on these shows dr. Scott Hahn how do we really read and get what the Bible is supposed to give us and how do we incorporate it in Christian life and as you said earlier you know the Word of God yes the scripture but it's first Jesus himself Pope Benedict the 16th said that Christology has been losing its meaning and explain that to us have we've been losing the centrality of this that will undermine our understanding Word of God there's no doubt there is no doubt something's happening and it's been happening for a couple of centuries and what I think Pope Benedict is referring to is that out in the Academy where the Bible is studied yeah by the scholars everything's up for grabs and why well for one thing I would say once you take the Bible out of its natural or it's supernatural habitat which is the church's sacramental worship you know you're already you're already setting things up but the second thing that is going on is that the interpretive process for reading the Bible is both human and divine because that's what the word is the Bible as inspired is fully human Matthew Mark Luke and John weren't stenographers but it's also fully divine the Holy Spirit is the principal author and so when you read the book you have to read it like any other book at one level because you're looking at the literary sense what are the words hanging you're looking at the historical truth what events are being described and that's where some scholars want to stop but it's not where Matthew Mark Luke and John wanted us to stop they wrote well they gave us a literary sense they were reliable witnesses and giving us historical truth but they were writing for the theological meaning of those historical events and so if you stopped short of the theological you're really betraying the very author is used claimed to be reading objectively and so the church is always insisted upon beginning the foundation the literary sense then moving to the historical truth but not stopping there but going on to see that the faith of Christ is what Matthew Mark Luke John Paul and all the rest are communicating and so theological interpretation theological exegesis is not alien to the Bible it is an extrinsic to Scripture you're basically you know I'm tempted to say that requiring people to check their faith at the door like their hats and canes before they read the Bible you know it's like claiming that a music critic who is tone-deaf is more objective in evaluating that's a great segment father you said you referred to the passage in Luke where Christ opens the minds of the Apostles to the meaning of Scripture and I've thought about this a bunch of times over the years the Apostles were no dummies they were some of them were men of letters it's it's a mischaracterization to portray them as ignorant so why did they these non ignorant these decently educated fellows need their minds open to the meaning of scripture because it's not only a human historical set of documents or document but it is divine in its source and in its content and therefore we need fundamentally all of us no matter how smart or not you may be the the help of Christ to open our mind to understand its meaning that's why on the purely academic if it sat in the acting Academy a purely historical approach is going to to sever you from the depths the theological which is the person get really rich and and and fertile your hermeneutic of history is the medieval for example who sort of developed and perfected the fourfold method of exegesis I mean they were quite convinced that history is already pregnant with mystery it B gets the full sense of the scripture I mean it's not enough to stop at the literal you have to probe and and plunge beneath it because it opens up the whole Vista of mystery God is speaking to us the historical it would be interested in Christianity Jesus were reducible to some Palestinian fanatic you know some sun-baked pseudo properly the points care the point is that the that Jesus Christ the historical Jesus is the Son of God right writes the point and that's why what Regis says is more than nostalgia you know it's not like well if only we could go back yep didn't well here yeah there's no place like Rome you know that the point is rather that when you see faith and reason coordinated properly you're basically recognizing it's the only way to read the Gospels and the rest of the Bible because it's the only way this book could have been produced and so just like we communicate with people and when they're hearing us we're hoping that they're listening to us and interpreting us on our terms you know that's what we owe to authors in general that's what we owe the New Testament writers in particular as inspired men they're communicating literary they're communicating historical but ultimately for the purpose of giving us the faith in the theological mystery of Jesus that's right Jesus that has to be dissenting that's right what does Christ reveal to them when he opens their minds the meaning of the scriptures how the Old Testament talks all about him right what he reveals to them is a is himself personally yeah when reason submits through the mystery of faith reason ends up not being disempowered but energized reason can reason so much more reasonably and profoundly in the light of faith than it can without faith and that's what ratsy that's what Pope Benedict faced in the end but I mean all he's doing is just echoing the tradition I mean when when Pascal says the heart has reasons of which reason knows nothing that is certainly true even of God's heart he opens his heart in the scriptures he speaks to us I mean John of the Cross says God speaks one word in the scripture and it is definitive it's his whole word he has no other word to speak it's inexhaustible our task is to find it it's there see this is the key because you know the the common notion that we have the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith is like saying well we have Scott Hahn the husband we've got dr. Hahn the professor well you can distinguish but you can't separate those two but what's happened is history has been robbed it's been rendered bereft of God's presence and God's activity in the name of rationality we've lapsed into rationalism because reason is capable of discerning not only that God exists but that God is present and active Nicodemus wasn't a disciple when he said we know you're a teacher from God because no one can form the signs that you do unless God is with him and Jesus says well look unless you're born of water and spirit you can't take your natural belief and turn it into supernatural faith without the Spirit without the sacraments without this personal conversion and key to this whole thing is Jesus says son of God son of the Father writes that it's not you can't just take Jesus off by himself well you know that's what Micah Dimas didn't understand because he's like you're a teacher you know and it's like that's a good start but that's not a good the conversation that so far as I can tell opens up this mystery of divine sonship is the exchange he has with Philip who says look when are you gonna show it's the Father and Jesus says look have you been with me so long and you still don't get it he who sees me sees the father I am His image is word his self-assurance I mean that that connection between the son and the father the word and God is absolutely foundational I think that that is a bright light that is shown for Thomas the the lesser light that Nicodemus gets is unless you're born of water and spirit baptized you're not going to see the kingdom much less centered and then how does the dialog in John 3:16 who are those words spoken to Jesus is saying to Nicodemus for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten teacher know his son the identity of son is more fundamental than anything else because all of his other roles as a preacher Savior etc are not roles that he had fraternity yeah in the in the heart of the Trinity but son is the order of time for example we're gonna flows from his identity the world does need more teachers you know I mean we're pretty self-important guys we teach but Jesus did not come to teach so its Christ's prayer to his father in the in the New Testament that holds a very special role on bringing us to know his identity see the prayer and the study of Jesus prayer are like inseparable you know in this book spirit in life I focus so much in the earlier essays on Pope Benedict and it's not just because well he's the head honcho at this point in time it's because this man is like no other we have never seen a biblical theological scholar of world repute become the occupy chair of Peter and you know it takes time to appreciate things that are a little too close I know you know growing up in Pittsburgh you know all of the things that tourists would come to see I never saw I could see it anytime you know I think you know when John Paul was talking about the theology of the body in the early 80s it wasn't discovered until the 90s it was like a ticking time bomb as why go places you know well I would say what what Pope Benedict has been doing his entire lifetime as a scholar and as a bishop as a teacher and now as the Pope is a kind of revolution of sorts but really it's a counter-revolution because it shows us that we don't have to turn back the clock we have to recognize that this might not seem timely the scholars but it's timeless truth nonetheless that the way we read the Bible from the heart of the church is the only way that we really get the depth of Scripture and it's not just because it's more orthodox that's true but what Pope Benedict points out is that reading the Bible in the light of faith is actually scientifically superior because when you read it in faith you actually exhibit greater explanatory power you can make better sense out of the deep wisdom in there so we don't throw away historical academic it's a study you and I'm gonna do it from a perspective of faith that's informed and enlivened by faith and charity it's not just that Jesus here and left right how important is his return the parasya yes - yeah well fill the picture there the pair of sea is a greek word originally in if you look it up anna lexicon and it really has one primary meaning and it's not what we think para sea is now in Oxford's it's in a webster that's an english word because the fundamentalist co-opted it a couple centuries ago and basically reduced to the one meaning and that is second coming but in fact you look at an a Greek lexicon in the first century the word parousia meant presence when Paul says as in my presence so in my absence work out your salvation with fear and trembling his word for presence is parousia so when we as Catholics confess the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist you'd translate that back into the lingua franca of the first century believers they believed in the parousia the Eucharist wasn't compensation for some postpones second coming the second coming is simply going to pull the curtain back and show us what has been present all this time honor altars and in our tabernacle in our bodies the radiant Lord of lemming isn't that the point of Emmaus that this road trip they test he's there with them from the beginning but it's only at the end that you know that the scales fall from their eyes and they see it's a Eureka moment you know this conversation is not just about these mysteries I mean and there's a certain sense in which this conversation is almost incomprehensible apart from them you know it's one thing to do a show it's another thing to actually forget the cameras are there you know that's where we are right now because what it illustrates what is what you were saying Mike that this doesn't sort of like you know well you have human reason and historical academic research but you overvalue those you know back off no this enables us to do far greater an intensified rational historical analysis you know in the light of the the divine the human is empowered it is not subjugated or reduced well we're immersed in the very mysteries that we try and describe and grapple with what Eliot calls the Intolerable wrestle with words and meanings that's what we're about we're pilgrims of the word and to think that we get paid to do we are in meshed in it and it's part of a certain understanding of tradition that's expressed by Saint Agustin it's expressed by Benedict the sixteenth it's an idea of tradition like that it's based on the idea that the church is the mystical body of Christ and has therefore a mystical personality and she's a living person who's alive today a tradition is her memory tradition is her memory of walking and living with Jesus lived in Palestine and beyond and by memory and that's what we're in my memory you mean the rich deep ancient notion in this Lambert what did I wear yesterday what would I have right not recognize you know merely I I'm haunted by The Lion King you know that line remember who you are I mean that's what the Holy Spirit empowers the church to do to remember who we are personal you know without memory I couldn't finish the sentence without memory I wouldn't know why we're sitting here memory is more than self conscious as it tells me who I am where I am and who I'm related to and in the church the Holy Spirit you know Agustin who describes the memory of the trash also points out that a body without a soul as a corpse that's decomposing you've got the church as the body where is the soul the Holy Spirit so when we speak of tradition it is an archaic it's alive holy that's what we want to get into as we come back how essential is the Holy Spirit to this whole discussion of reading the Word of God of celebrating the Word of God in the mass what what is the vital role of the Holy Spirit and why is it more than dangerous to ignore that stay with us a lot of people find it hard to read the Bible if you're one of those people then what you can do is if you go to Sunday Mass and go to daily Mass and if you can't make it to every day then if you just read the readings for every for the daily masses then you'll find that over a three-year period with psychos Amy and C you'll have read the vast majority of the Bible I would say that the classes here are very rigorous because it's not just about repeating the information back to professors about applying our faith and applying the lessons to current events to different social problems Franciscan University is definitely a challenging academic environments unlike any other Catholic University out there we're not just going through the motions we evangelize in the community do service for those in need there's even weekly sidewalk kasnian prayers at an abortion clinic in Pittsburgh Franciscan University is academically challenging and passionately Catholic for 25 years Franciscan University has LED journeys in the footsteps of Jesus Christ and the Saints we go as pilgrims not merely as tourists exploring the richness of the Catholic faith and enjoying the laughte of prayer and support of Christian Fellowship join Franciscan University on a true pilgrimage that will touch your mind heart and spirit visit FUS journeys com I'm talking about how to read the Bible not so special guests dr. Scott Hahn who's you always here with we're here at Franciscan University surrounded by students who are working the equipment and with many directors also helping them and we're getting into the topic of tradition this has been controversial over the years there are Sola scriptura people who you can't move from what you read in the Bible and then the Catholic Church has always said they go together the two parts of one thing the tradition let me make one a joke the Catholic Church does teach that but only because scripture teaches it too you know the church was teaching even before the scriptures were written about this but I mean I was one of those Sola scriptura men for many years you know and until I found that scripture doesn't teach Sola scriptura that Sola scriptura is contrast scriptura you know we find in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15 Paul commanding the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions that you've received from us either in writing or by word of mouth he does the same thing again in chapter 3 verse 6 so scripture is pointing beyond itself and binding us to extra scriptural realities like tradition and so when you face the music and you recognize that my mind and my heart are bound to God's Word then I was bound to renounce Sola scriptura and affirm tradition I just had to go in search of a church that had this tradition and claim to so you're saying I can't even talk about Scripture here and tradition there no there interpenetrated there inseparably united scripture emerges from tradition the tradition is both a handing on and it's the content that's handed on and therefore a tradition has to be with the written word the whole Word of God that's the key that one lock it because the notion of tradition in our minds is sort of like you know Tevye van filler on the roof it's just something that's really old and authoritative but antiquated you know an archaic whereas when we speak of living through we're talking about the soul that animates the body we're talking about something that is present here and now and powerfully so you know and I'm thinking about how the original meaning of tradition is paratus it's the the handing down and so the father gives us the son there's a tradition going on there then what does the son say well the son says it's better for me to go to the Father for your sake because unless I go to the Father we won't center the Paraclete and when the Paraclete comes greater works than these shall you do when the disciples are sitting around the table thinking Jesus with all due respect you know for us it's not better for you to go to the Father it's better for you to stick around whatever you're talking but Jesus knew we needed the Paraclete to even understand the words that is what makes a difference between mere human tradition and the sacred living tradition is precisely that presence Ahmir human tradition is recalling and passing along something really really old this doesn't get old this is the living presence of the Lord in in the church through the Holy Spirit with a living memory bringing us into a personal real concrete saving contact with Christ in your book you have some fine things about tradition and memory but and and you cite Pope Benedict in a wonderful passage where he speaks of tradition as a living dialogue in which the church finds herself drawn literally drawn gathered up into this drama of God the unfolding of God doesn't just say I'm passing on this information right but he also says it's God in us apostles as it were you know making his appeal through us so it's living because it's not just a memory of an event that is gone and over and done with God's living presence in and through the persons of the church and Jesus himself gives us the lead on how to interpret Scripture yeah that's really crucial right the Paraclete is going to come and bring to your remembrance all that I've said and they're looking I'm thinking you know with all due respect again we remember what you said but there's remembrance then there's remembrance in the sense of do this in remembrance that term anamnesis really helped me understand what the church means by tradition and what the church means by living tradition because it always sounded so mystical you know the memory you know and the the presence and you know get real where do I find tradition living in the Catholic Church what is it that the Paraclete is empowering the Apostles and their successors to do that makes this something that is more than a mystical intuition for Roman Catholics and what I found in Ratzinger before I was even Catholic and what I also found in Cohn gar and in Saint Thomas was this idea that took the tradition that we speak of is living because of the sacraments that the sacraments that constitute our liturgy this is our life as the body of Christ the liturgy is how the body of Christ breathes in and out and the dialogue that goes on in the mass were through in the spirit through the son were thanking the father Eucharistic - thank you know this dialogue and then he speaks his word to us and then empowers us to speak again this this this family dialogue this dialogue is real and and the Holy Spirit is the one who makes it so that even if that priest might be secretly in mortal sin it doesn't matter at one level because he's able to give us Jesus because Christ is the high priest the Holy Spirit overrides our weaknesses and delivers the goods to the faithful like any good father wants to empower his family is this tradition is tangible as bread and wine and water and oil and yet it's more than material it really is profoundly different you know there's a there's a lovely line from the Italian poet che sorry pavé say who says memory is a passion repeated and I think that's vivid that that's graphic it captures this whole business this transaction by these signs rendered sacred we represent we reproduce rehearse recapitulate all over again the reality of Jesus Christ he's here with us now otherwise we are really at a fatal disadvantage to those who lived in the first century because physically we're not in any kind of proximity to Jesus he's gone left the stage he's no longer here but sacramentally because of this power of the sign Jesus is is represented he somehow back here again once more in an efficacious way and this is rooted in our Lord's words themselves the words themselves when he says in the Great Commission at the end of Matthew's Gospel 28 chapter 28 go and make disciples of preaching baptize name of the Father Son Holy Spirit teach to observe Commandments all have commanded you and lo which is not a word we often use it just means look behold almost as if to say in this way I am with you till the end of the age in the preaching in the sacraments and in the you know authoritative otherwise the promise of Christ would be vain an embryo almost obscene you know he's calling us to a life of intimacy with the father but he's not making himself available as the means how do I get to the Father if the way to the Father is sort of oblique roundabout circuitous hit in the end and I don't even find him yeah what a frustration well it comes down to presence from my point of view you know I can read a book about a Theo Pia and it's not coming together I mean I'm reading all stuffs about Ethiopia but I just get a lot of facts but when I'm reading Scripture when I'm doing this I have the presence of the Holy Spirit it's like or Ethiopia to you yeah you know this idea of remembrance I remember being confused by it you know there was a passage that really grabbed me way back in John 2 when Jesus cleansed the temple and the officials demand a sign to show what a thorn who had to do this and he did he said something rather provocative almost a terrorist threat he said destroy this temple and in three days I'll raise it back up he didn't say I will destroy this temple we just said destroy this temple I mean what a provocative utterance especially since the temple had already been destroyed once the most dramatic black day in Jewish history back when the Babylonians did it and then we read in the next to verse of how the disciples themselves didn't understand what he meant it wasn't until after he was raised from the dead that they remembered the scriptures and believed and what he said and this confirms what Jesus told them in the upper room that if I leave and I go to the Father we will send you the Paraclete and the Spirit will cause you to remember remembering here is not just like oh yeah he did say that you know it's commemoration it's the kind of presence that we experience when we commemorate a birthday or anniversary we don't celebrate a birthday because for 364 days of the year we forgot this kid was born now suddenly oh we remembered you know we're celebrating this person's life and his growth so when we remember in the Holy Spirit we are empowered to commemorate more than birthdays or anniversaries it's the presence and the life of Jesus what the foam means by liturgy being the goal exactly you know that's exactly what he's and this is why Scripture is so ordered to the Eucharist and the Eucharist is so illuminated by the scriptures that once you get this connection you're like okay why do we disconnect the two you know how could you understand the mystery without the inspired Word but how can you study the saving truth without experiencing it in this family gathering in this covenant renewal it's right scriptures didactic but it's teaching it teaches by way of mr. Gogi in a liturgical sacramental context mr. Gogi meaning the Catechism 1075 says you you look beyond the external to see the internal the visible gives to us the invisible the human gives to us nothing that's why I think of a purely Protestant perspective Sola scriptura is so impoverished it doesn't open up the scriptures it doesn't release that memory that is so enriching so empowering you know in in in father Marie's book on the problem of God he identifies the birth of the Protestant spirit with the refusal to accept homoousios at the Council of the first Nicaea he describes that as the last more momentous argument about God you don't find that word consubstantial homo asean in the scriptures so the right-wing the Conservatives the Protestant mentality said it's not a scriptural word therefore it can't be canonical let me unpack that because that's impractical you know in 325 the Council of Nicaea the first of all the ecumenical councils met form the Creed and gave us the term homos yes which in Greek means you know basically the same substance one in being with the father and that illustrates as Pope Benedict points out that when we call geez the son of God it isn't a figure of speech or a metaphor it is a reality because you know if I make a statue that looks like me it isn't human if I have children that don't look like me they're my children they're my sons because they're one in being with their father so the son is really the son because he's one in being with the father that isn't metaphorical language but what the faithful found so startling about the Creed of Nicaea is it was the first time that the bishops had ever required the faithful to embrace an article of faith that wasn't explicitly in Scripture that's why for the next 40 years after the council of nicaea tonight there was a debate and the Aryans were winning because these conservatives were called other home illusions you know where's that in the Bible well finally you recognize that you know homo Lucy us is not in the Bible what does that translate to that word homo you same substance same essence and wonder he's God from God God is God like that like the same yeah and so he's the same kind of being but these these Orthodox were being derided for going beyond the Bible until the people recognized what Ratzinger says so well Pope Benedict says Dogma is by definition nothing other than the church's authoritative interpretation of Scripture and what would then we read all about Jesus being the son that's the most frequently used term in all the Gospels right what do we mean by son is it metaphorical because the Egyptian kings were called sons of gods no it's not a figure of speech this captures who Jesus is from all eternity right and it makes our relationship with him pause it's the Holy Spirit in the church leading us to understand the truth that's revealed so it really is for example an authentic interpretation of John one where Jesus is the Monogue anice the only began the logos is the only begotten of the Father this homo osseous is just a way of saying that's literal not poetic or figured it was writing I mean this is a genuine development of doctrine from within a living tradition and from an academic who is also a liturgist to show that the the church is the the best context for academic research and scripture yes that's the well when we come back each of you can recall on the main back bring this forward how do we live out all this understanding on reading the Word of God rightly and how does enriching lives spiritually and presence and life at the heart of the church stay with us I'm in certain to the Savior household and we prayed literature the hours every morning in the chapel and it's a great way it's a jump start our morning by reading the Word of God well outside of the Eucharist in Mass I have to say that the Word of God is the most important part of building a personal relationship with our Lord and allowing his words to speak to you to speak to your heart I find that time in reading the word really allows him to minister to you and providing peace and comfort and just coming to know him in a more personal and deeper way the professors are constantly bringing in God to their subjects no matter what it is not because they have to or they're trying to force it it's because he naturally works and everything that we're learning about I'm a biology major and it's hard it's really tough but anything biology muscle of body is cool to me so learning about the body and the way the body works and knowing that there's a God behind it all is just absolutely amazing to me a beautiful Franciscan University is academically challenging and passionately Catholic we've come to the last phase I'm talking about how to read the Bible with panel here sharing their final thoughts and takeaway thoughts for you so that you can go forth in reading the Bible and understanding it as the church believes okay we start with you Regis yeah Oh Scott it's another home run you've struck paydirt I think another hit and you're to be commended for this wonderful book it's chock-full of many useful insightful things of and let me just seize upon one you make a great deal of Pope Benedict's insistence that the centerpiece of Jesus's self understanding is the fact that he is the son he is the word the utterance of the father and that his whole life is dialogical it's it's a conversation with the father which is another way of saying his life is prayer even as death becomes an act of prayer and and I thought that was so helpful so so thrilling I mean really so profound because that's an eternal designation his relation to the Father antedates whatever relation he has to the world or to us he is son from all eternity but what makes it so consoling is that he invites us to be drawn into that same biological relation to be is to be in relation to the other and in the life of prayer our prayer life were drawn literally into that current of prayer and conversation which constitute his being not just his work I mean with us we set time aside for prayer you know maybe I'll give 10 minutes here a half hour there but I need to economize with Jesus it's all over the top his life is prayer and I think your treatment of that theme is is really quite wonderful thank you Mike well I concur with Regis Scott very very good job this is an excellent excellent book spirit and life essays on interpreting the Bible in ordinary time to understand the written word of God Saint Athanasius once said at the end of his treatise on the incarnation of the word that to really plumb the depths so to speak to really enter into the mysteries revealed in their depths it's required that you receive the gift of forgiveness and holiness and sanctity okay nevertheless even without faith the Bible confronts the reader and so it hits people on every level people who have no faith people who have profound faith people who have who have a life of moral turpitude people who have a life of heroic sanctity the Bible hits people in every level Matthew 16 for example clearly it seems the intention is to confront the reader with the historical event who do you say that I am Jesus says and as a reader reading that whether you have faith or not approaching that with an open mind and open heart you yourself kind of reverse-engineer or recreate the situation of any human who sees the the deeds and hears the words of our Lord and then you have to make an answer and right away what does Christ say after Peter gives the right answer he says blessed are you the father's revealed this to you not flesh and blood and then he launches off into the necessity of suffering sharing with his suffering to share in his glory the whole purpose of the written word is to bring us into not just knowledge about the person of Christ but it is personal intimate immediate knowledge of Christ who is real alive and present here with us right now your book eloquently speaks to that clear purpose and is a very very useful guide for for biblical literacy and fluency if left you know in fluent in the Bible so I thank you so a little more about the book in a in a moment but for now Scott what would you say to people after rewriting all this you've done an extraordinary job at this university in the Church of showing the linkage the inclusion between scripture and liturgy and how you can't just have one you need them both with with awareness well it's it's fun to give but much more important to live so appreciate your prayers prayer is what I was going to say and and and both of you have already pointed this out prayer is really where it begins and ends and honest prayer you know like Jacob wrestling with the angel like the Sun wrestling with the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane I mean when you read the Bible you recognize that prayer is a wrestling match where you were like saying to God with all due respect you know I don't want to pray I'm so distracted I I'm not even sure you know where I am in my relationship with you you're praying in fact you're praying more profoundly sometimes when you speak that way than if you've gone through 15 rosaries so start off with that kind of prayer that comes from the heart of a child that can be nothing but honest the second thing is read so that your prayer becomes a dialogue and read the Gospels because that's the Living Word read the Psalms because you know that's the one book of the Bible the church prays 24/7 and it's an Old Testament book but it really shows us a man after God's own heart because David was a man of prayer he was the one who taught the world to pray you can hardly find any prayers before David comes in the Old Testament so the Psalms especially read the Bible and and recognize okay it's a jungle you don't want to just kind of run into the middle of it without a map without a guide but you have the Catechism you've got the Magisterium you've got the church you know and that doesn't mean well look we've got the Catechism who needs the Bible we've got the Catechism so we can get much more out of the Bible than we could without it so prayer reading and the third thing is worship go to church go to Mass and recognize that this is really prayer and reading together as a family the faith was never just about individualism it's always about interpersonal communion and prayer Foster's that with my father ABBA but when we worship and gather as a family we recognize why did Jesus teach us to pray our Father not just my father because he really wants us to recognize who we are remember who you are you're not just a son you're a brother and you might be a spiritual father figure to other people and so come together as God's family and hear the word and then celebrate the presence of the word and when you get in tune with the Spirit and you get in touch with the scriptures as the church reads it it creates a feedback loop so you're back to praying and reading and back to worship and then again and again and I think those three simple steps are the best way for anybody to began whether you've done an amateur or a scholar okay well and you can all find this the heart of this and spirit in life interpreting the Bible in ordinary time by Scott Hahn and it's from Emmaus Road and we're gonna send you just for the asking a handout which is an essay by dr. Hahn on the Gospel of Matthew and that will be sent to you just for contacting us in the office what can I add to all this rather penetrating esoteric theological hermeneutical discussion maybe a little homespun I went off to boarding school in the second grade my mother was such a loving mother she would write at least once a week many times more than that and I'd leave the letters around but people would find them other kids or teachers say what does this mean what does that mean and I have to say you have to know my mother you have to know our relationship with my mother then you can understand her side comments and her lips and the rest of it and it was so true you know and you write dear mom and your loving son and all this stuff and then she writes this very affectionate thing back you know stroking me and the relationship is at the heart of things and celebrating the relationship and if you do that in the context of your faith in the church then the Scriptures are gonna be alive and personal and they're really going to enrich your life so stay with us come visit us take a course come to a conference whatever the next time may the Lord bless and keep you show is facing a mercy on your turn his countenance to you and give you peace amen to receive a free handout on today's topic or to purchase a video of this show call eight eight eight three three three zero three eight one that's eight eight eight three three three zero three eight one or call seven four zero two eight three six three five seven email your request to presents and Franciscan edu or write to Franciscan University presents Franciscan University of Steubenville one two three five university boulevard steubenville ohio four three nine five two you

Channel: Franciscan University of Steubenville

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Keywords: Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio, Catholic, college, Franciscan University Presents, EWTN, Fr. Michael Scanlan TOR, Dr. Regis Martin, Dr. Michael Sirilla, Dr. Scott Hahn, theology, Biblical theology, Sacred Scripture, Bible

Id: 1Eh6W7m42oo

Length: 58min 30sec (3510 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 31 2016