Former Scottish first minister slams SNP strategy | Lord McConnell

so we understand you might want to leave government you know but let's have an arrangement whereby you know you have still have an input into policy and if it comes to a confidence vote you back us um but that doesn't seem to have been finessed in any way at all I mean even if even if he has the support of Ash rean next week in the confidence vote yeah I mean is that sustainable really morning is our Friday regulars barones Morgan Nicki Morgan the former conservative education secretary here in the studio hello hello morning you and Lord McConnell Jack McConnell the former labor first minister of Scotland hij Jack good morning we were so delighted that you were both in the studio at the same time that we thought we'd come and join you thank you so much does make a change uh this morning we're going to discuss the future of the current first minister of Scotland humza Yousef plus what are the implications of vetting academics for links to Chinese Espionage and how do politicians avoid digging a hole for themselves when trying to answer questions in the high pressure environment on say for example TV or radio well last night you get a case study and model answers over the next 25 minutes or so absolutely do join the conversation as you always do I'm going to turn the heating down it's a bit warm it's a bit warm what happen when you fill the studio with people it suddenly starts cooking BL us warm in the studio we like it warm it keeps us awake but when more people come in the studio get just because the S&P dropped the claim it t have the studio roas now listen to this for a case study on how to do this speaking of people who are feeling the heat let's talk thank you let's talk about humza YF first minister of Scotland his future as first minister is hanging in the balance after he sacked the Scottish greens from their role in government uh there is now going to be a vote of confidence or indeed a vote of no confidence uh brought by the Scottish conservatives that will take place next week the times reports this morning he is considering his position and of course we're considering the position of Ash Regan the only Alaba party MSP who was an SNP MSP uh Hamza yusf famously said she was no great loss when she defected Jack oops I wonder how he's feeling about that this morning probably regrets that even more than Chris philp regrets for being question time last night um yeah in some ways this is a complicated situation but it's also now pretty straightforward I I can't I'm I'm very surprised that they didn't think this through when they abandoned the climate targets next last Thursday I'm even more surprised that the greens didn't immediately leave the government although I think the two green ministers were enjoying the ministerial cars and the ministerial salaries a little bit too much for their party members and then when the greens party membership made clear they were going to pull out he's obviously reacted to that without thinking through the consequences I think yeah and doing the numbers I you said this morning somebody had said was it war games with by by somebody who can't count that's right yeah it's in the times today yeah exactly that do you so do you think there would there would be a way there could have been a away for hza YF to end the but house agreement that had the greenson Coalition amicably where it wouldn't have resulted in this capitulation end renegotiate yeah um adjust you know the the S SMP essentially had an agreement with the toris between 2007 in 2011 where um Mannel Goldie and the conservatives basically helped them pass their budget every year and return for a couple of Crumbs from the table sort of thing um and that was mainly because they were both against the labor government and they wanted to to um to to to create a few TR a few problems for uh for for labor in Westminster um so it was there are other arrangements apart from Coalition our Coalition was a formal Coalition with a very detailed agreement but they could have said look um you know we're going we understand this is embarrassing for you the climate Target change so we understand you might want to leave government you know but let's have an arrangement whereby you know you have still have an input into policy and if it comes to a confidence vote you backers um but that doesn't seem to have been finessed in any way at all I mean even if even if he has the support of Ash Regan next week in the conference vote yeah I mean is that sustainable really you know he has it's not only her be there are well you and I took part in an event in Edinburgh last month when Fergus Ying the longstanding snpm who's currently I think suspended from the party um who will probably vote for humza YF next week in the conference vote but he made clear his absolute opposition to almost everything they're doing in government and famously Fergus Ying um who I think may have served that suspension in the end because it was there was an appeals process but he you're right he was suspended and he was suspended partly because he voted against Laura sler one of the co-leaders of the Scottish greens because in a vote of no confidence which resulted in the SNP then suspending him and behold here we are now they've been fired from government so You' you've essentially got a whole series of individuals they're not the only two exactly who might then hold the first Minister uh to rans something on a fairly regular basis and that is not a good position to be in Nikki what do you make of it when you kind of look in on this and you see the breakdown in party discipline the rebels that Jack's talking about a vote of no confidence looming I mean like the conservative it's all feeling horribly that so obvious we didn't even have that written what a great we are and it's I was just reflecting on the fact that the great Tim Shipman has just um published doesn't he the the Third well I think there's another volume to come in a Trilogy isn't there but no way out um and um I think the lesson from all of this is the minute you are into voter no confidence territory even if you win it that's it your time in offices is limited and um I'm staggered I mean so as a as a as a Westminster conservative I'm delighted to be watching this I mean I think uh in many ways uh you know it's um it's great sort of entertainment um as somebody said for the people of Scotland it's probably uh far less uh entertaining uh they just want a competent government um but I think that probably Hamza has to realize that actually his time is now limited how is he going to extract himself if not now or next week at some point um and and it's just extraordinary the lack of sort of tactical thinking I mean the whole point about politics is you have to war game don't you the steps head if I do this then they're likely to do that and you try and work as sometimes as you get it wrong the second guessing but you have to think three steps ahead all the time yeah just as we're talking a couple of things on this exact story so Sky News is reporting that hes a use of for canceled a speech he was due to give on Independence today now if I'm I'm piecing two and two together here the SNP have been issuing various papers on Independence over the last number of months you may not have noticed them because there's not been an awful lot of fan about them if I'm honest but the latest one was due to be published today so it was probably around that as I say put two and two together and I've just spotted this from Ash Regan in the last few minutes saying I've written to humza use of this morning requesting a reset and a return to competent government where we prioritize indep dependent and protect the dignity safety and rights of women and children I remain open to any discussion where we progress the priorities of the people of Scotland my door is open she says in the letter to discussing the progress of my proposed Scottish Parliament Powers referendum Bill the opportunity to write a new chapter for Scotland is in our hands says Ash Regan well that sounds like the deal is on doesn't it um I mean I think I don't I don't think there'll be any problem with giving her some words on on Independence that will allow her and uh um Mr salmon to claim that they have had some influence um and I actually I don't my best guess is that and I don't know this for certain but my best guess is that hza yusf is not as attached to the uh gender ideology PL um policies as Nicola was and that if he had and without the greens in government now if he has to bend on that and adjust slightly in order to accommodate Ash Regan then I think he will so that sounds to me like there's a deal on yeah that's interesting how do they bend on that the gender point when they've passed the ACT I mean that we were discussing that me a couple weeks ago about you know the act of come into force and the police were being overwhelmed in Scotland with complaints and everything else and the trouble is they're they're so far down that road now that's a really difficult one for them to uh to to to compromise on isn't it although I think on the hat I mean on the gender act the gender um recognition act I think the UK govern and the hate crime act um my understanding is that police Scotland still don't have any guidelines from the Scottish government on how to how to implement the act so it could be that she could get some to extract some concessions on the actual implementation of the guideline I mean we know what the story is here it will be it will be words rather than actions probably and there will I I suspect that there will be a um the harsh reality of life will mean that that hza has to has to give them some word and that put up with the fact that that will see Mr s gloating put enormous leverage he goes again you know he's he's been having a wheel of a time in the last 24 hours I think as MRIs yes indeed um just a very final thought from you on it Nikki because um Jack mentioned Nicholas sturgeon and actually the but house agreement with the greens was a Nicholas sturgeon deal and arguably I think maybe it's fair to say this is the culmination of the complete destruction of Nicholas sturgeon's Legacy now at this point Point as first Minister I think that's right and I think um isn't it extraordinary I mean you know sort of um political people who appear to be uh absolutely in the ascendant have you know the ground at their feet and then actually uh it all falls apart and not least because of course her husband um having just been charged with uh embezzlement of SNP funds for example yes I mean it really is the last pulling pulling apart I'm sure she'll have her place in in history um but I suspect that the S SMP even more now um you know want to distance themselves from her as much as they can I think uh it's interesting to remember back to the leadership election last year yeah because there were two main points of Kate Forbes challenge to Huma youf as the continuity candidate one was to pull out of the agreement with the greens but the other one was she was very blunt about their performance in government it was a key debate where she said you know the trains don't run on time the schools are are are failing the Health Service is is you know is is a mess you know you really want you really want to be the continuity candidate um so I think what will be interesting is if he survives next week you know how how do they improve the performance in government because I don't think there be the certain back Ventures including Cape Forbes will move on from the debate about the greens in government to AR arguing about the actual quality of their performance as a government and that will be the next big challenge for them Jack McConnell Nicki Morgan staying with us to discuss other big stories of the morning we're going to be talking about threats to universities from States like China we're going to be talking about the Supreme Court Justices looking at whether Trump well has got more problems in the uh in the courts he's he's got enough court cases going on at the moment and also political interviews and when they go wrong there's so much to talk about this we could be here till quarter to 10 this is times radio breakfast with Chloe Tilly and Callum McDonald in association with Nationwide a good way to bank

Channel: Times Radio

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Length: 11min 22sec (682 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 26 2024