FBI Director Christopher Wray details $11.3 billion budget request at Senate hearing | full video

in April and we discussed the fundamentally different position we are in now compared to what we were in last year our fiscal year 2023 bill made notable increases to the Justice Department's law enforcement components the fiscal year 20124 was a very far different outcome for the subcommittee and for the Department the significant Cuts in 2024 came as a result of the fiscal responsibility acts discretionary spending limits so our Bill faced a 3% cut compared to FY 23 that's roughly $2.5 billion less than we had in the prior year in each of our hearings this year I've tried to raise concerns about the ongoing constraints of the fiscal responsibility Act and the continued cuts to discretionary spending these Cuts have real consequences and I'm hoping we will hear more from you this afternoon about what those consequences mean for the FBI and how they impact the Safety and Security of the American people the bureau has already provided a good example of some of these impacts despite what appears to be a relatively modest cut of $32 million or. 3% in FY 24 to the FBI salaries and expenses the amount needed for the FBI to maintain just its current Services is actually 484 million more than what we funded the FBI's fiscal year 25 budget request is $ 11.3 billion 661 million above last year it includes program enhancements for cyber investigative capabilities mitigating threats from foreign intelligence services and to address the increased volume of firearms background checks the request would also allow the FBI to fund critical National Security and law enforcement positions that were reduced as a result of the FY 24 Appropriations we also hope to hear from you about the FBI's ongoing work to address escalating threats that face our country including how the FBI is working with its federal state and local law enforcement Partners to fight illicit drugs coming into the country and how the FBI is working to protect children particularly from online threats and exploitation now before I close my opening remarks I would like to thank the employees of the FBI for their dedication and service to our country especially when we are asking them to do more with less to keep us safe director Ray I look forward to your testimony in our discussion today and now I will recognize the subcommittee's ranking member Senator Moran for his opening remarks Senator Shane thank you for convening our hearing director Ray welcome back to this Commerce Justice science subcommittee I appreciated your time as I indicated ated just a moment ago in your remarks at the University of Kansas this past April at the annual FBI and KU cyber security conference uh the quality of the speakers in the panel suggest to me that this will become a premier annual cyber event and I hope you will continue to join us we'll try to do it during basketball season if you prefer ability of our nation in both government and private sector to deter and neutral neutralize cyber attacks from having their intended effect is essential to our national security and to our economy these new challenges and dangers require a capable qualified and well-trained Workforce to combat the threats in addition to that I want to discuss National Security crisis at the southern border President Biden just signed an executive order to limit claims of Asylum for those entering our country while action by the president is needed I'm doubtful that this exe executive order will make the necessary changes to ensure an operational control of our border and that we know who why and where people are Crossing into our country last month it was reported that a suspected member of Isis had been freely living in the United States after illegally crossing the southern border nonetheless it would take more than two years before that person was arrested on April the 17th in another case an individual on the terrorist watch list was similarly released by the border patrol after crossing the southern border I recognize that these cases most directly implicate failures at DHS but the FBI also plays a major role in national security screening and facilitating the sharing of information across our government our world and our country have become more dangerous our adversaries are coordinating with the intention of doing harm to the us our allies and our partners the conflicts overseas present clear threats here at home as Russia wages its illegal and unjust invasion of Ukraine it's widely reported that mosow is engaged in asymmetric activities such as sabotage in Western Europe I would like you to address if we are seeing signs of that in our own country the ongoing war in Gaza has the potential to inspire terrorists around the globe we cannot be complacent about in believing in America will be IM immune and Jewish Americans should not have to live in fear and the Chinese regime continues its efforts to steal intellectual property threaten uh critical infrastructure and on this anniversary of tinan square has established police stations in the US to harass Chinese dis dis dissidents who find Freedom in our country you recently said director the PRC has made it clear that it considers every sector that makes our society run fair game it's clear the conflicts abroad present Real challenges at home compounding those challenges are distinct vulnerabilities on our borders our means of communication and our technology systems uh director you have a wide array of challenges in front of you and the FBI uh it seems uh almost insurmountable the things that we face today I look forward to hearing from you how our budget can help better support the work the FBI does to mitigate these growing threats address the crisis at our Southern border and ultimately keep Americans safe thank you and the people who work at the FBI for your efforts in that regard and I thank you also for being here today thank you very much Senator Moran Vice chair Collins would you like to make an opening statement uh thank you very much Madam chair first welcome director Ray uh let me start by just saying that I appreciate very much your efforts to warn policy makers and the American public about the threat of a terrorist attack we tend to be very focused on the great power competition with China and Russia and Iran North Korea being major threats to us but in fact fact in my judgment the most imminent threat that we face is that of a terrorist attack and I share your assessment that everywhere we look the lights are blinking red to quote you previously the withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan the rise of the Taliban once again a reconstituted Isis K Iran's deployment of proxy forces in the Middle East the chaos at our Southern borders and indeed our northern border as well um has allowed terrorists into our country and surging anti-americanism have all combined to dramatically increase the threat of terrorist attacks in our country and aimed at our allies abroad that is an issue that I will want to address with you today uh the second issue which we have talked about before is the absolutely stunning increase the shocking increase in illegal marijuana growing operations in rural homes in Maine that are often run by Chinese Nationals I brought this up to you at the worldwide threats uh briefing a month ago and I have raised the issue with the attorney general just this past Thursday the Summerset County Sheriff's Office shut down a growing operation in a house that contained 1,500 recently harvested marijuana plants more than 30 pounds of processed marijuana and illicit drug related materials all of which were seized this particular growing operation was located adjacent to a daycare center the attorney general has committed to having the Department of Justice more actively involved along uh with other federal agencies in helping state county and local law enforcement in Maine I would note Maine is not alone in experiencing this enormous increase the estimates are that there are between 150 and 200 of these sites yet to be dealt with in the state of Maine uh but we're not alone there are about 20 States and I will be asking you this morning your assessment what the FBI is doing specifically and whether you have information about the involvement of transnational Chinese criminal organizations so those are two of my greatest concerns and I look forward to our dialogue today thank you and the members of the FBI for all you do thank you Senator Collins director Ray the floor is yours I don't think his speaker's on your speaker is not on Sir close okay is that there we go oh there we go good afternoon chair Shaheen ranking member Moran and members of the subcommittee I am proud to be here today representing the 38,000 men and women who make up the FBI every day our people are working relentlessly to outpace our adversaries and stay ahead of complex and evolving threats so I'd first like to thank you for your support over the years of our efforts to achieve our mission of protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution at the same time I also realize the reality of the environment we're in today where so many agencies are dealing with tightening budgets and this year the FBI has been one of those agencies with our fiscal year 2024 budget having now come in almost $500 million below what the FBI needs just to sustain our 2023 efforts and while I very much appreciate this sub committee's efforts to blunt any Cuts candidly this could not come at a worse time when I sat here last year I walked through how we were already in a heightened threat environment and since then we've seen the threat from foreign terrorists rise to a whole another level after October 7th we continue to see the cartels push fenel and other dangerous drugs into every corner of the country claiming in countless American lives we've seen a Spate of ransomware attacks and other cyber attacks impacting parts of our critical infrastructure and businesses both large and small violent crime which reached alarming levels coming out of the pandemic remains far too high and is impacting far too many communities China continues its Relentless efforts to steal our intellectual property and most valuable information and that's just scratching the surface when I look back over my career in law enforcement I would be hardpressed to think of a time when so many different threats to our Public Safety and National Security were so elevated all at the same time but that is the case as I sit here today and while we have always found ways at the FBI to innovate and make the most with what we have this is by no means a time to let up or dial back this is a time when we need your support the most and I look forward to working with this subcommittee to get things back on track because right now we need investments in our people and the resources required to keep Americans safe now I will stack the FBI's Workforce up against anyone anywhere anytime they are Innovative they're efficient they're Relentless they're Patriots and we have been fortunate at the the FBI in recent years that our recruiting has gone through the roof Americans are applying in droves to devote their lives to a career with us protecting others but we need more positions to be able to bring all the good people we can to the fight certainly not fewer and as great as our people are we also need to equip them with the necessary tools required to tackle today's threats now is not the time for Less to fulfill our mission the men women of the FBI need more terrorism just in the time that I've been FBI director we've disrupted multiple terrorist attacks in cities and communities around the country we need funding to continue protecting America from terrorism I touched on this earlier but there was already a heightened risk of violence in the United States before October 7th and since then we've seen a Rogues gallery of foreign terrorist organizations call for attacks against Americans and our allies and given those calls for Action our most immediate concern has been that individuals or small groups will draw Twisted inspiration from the events in the Middle East to carry out attacks here at home but now on top of that increasingly concerning is the potential for a coordinated attack here in the Homeland not unlike the Isis K attack we saw at the Russia Concert Hall back in March China China we're up to something like 2,000 Active cases against across all 56 FBI field offices focused on the prc's efforts to try to steal our information and technology and we need funding to continue countering the threat posed by the PRC a government sparing no expense in its quest to hack lie cheat and steal its way to the top as a global superpower and to undermine our democracy and our economic success cyber we're investigating more than a hundred different ransomware variants each of them impacting scores of victims and that's just ransomware we need funding to continue disrupting all kinds of cyber threats certainly those from China but also from a crowded field of sophisticated criminals and hostile nation states like Russia Iran and North Korea the fenel epidemic we've got between 300 and 400 investigations just into cartel leadership and time and time again our folks are seizing enough fenel to wipe out entire States we need funding to continue thwarting the range of threats emanating from the border fentel gangs like MS13 human trafficking violent crime last year our Safe Streets and violent crime task forces arrested like something like 50 bad guys per day every day all year long we need funding to continue fighting the violent crime that remains at levels in this country that are still too high child exploitation our dedicated agents analysts and professional staff working violent crimes against children are arresting hundreds of predators and rescuing hundreds of victims each and every year we need funding to continue protecting our most vulnerable victims from their tormentors now in all those areas that I just mentioned we are working closely with our partners at all levels of government to achieve our shared goals of keeping our community safe and protecting Americans from harm every day every day FBI agents analysts and professional staff are working shoulder-to-shoulder with thousands of Task Force officers from hundreds of different police departments and Sheriff's offices all over the country on our FBI task forces on top of that we provide technology and expertise valuable investigative leads like DNA matches and cutting at training to law enforcement Nationwide to help them keep our communities safe so as I know this subcommittee recognizes cuts to us our cuts to our partners state and local law enforcement agencies and officers who are on the ground putting themselves in the line of fire often quite literally that's just one way that cuts to us are going to have real impacts on the American people so yes despite best efforts we took a hit in the 2024 budget but 2025 is a chance to get back on track and provide the FBI's men and women the tools and resources the American people need us to have to keep them safe so thank you again for having me here today and I look forward for me to our discussion thank you very much director Ray um Senator Mansion I understand understand you have to leave to chair another hearing so would you like to begin the questioning first of all thank you madam chairman I appreciate that very much and to director Ray to you and to all of the 35,000 Plus members who protect us every day and put their lives at In Harm's Way for us I want to thank each and every one of them too sir real quickly I want to thank you for coming in 2022 to our uh Clarksburg West Virginia FBI Center which is your largest I believe in the installation does all the background you know checks and and uh my my concern there is a bipartisan safer communities act making sure you have the uh necessary funds and budget to enact that properly that we can continue to grow and protect the people of America from those who want weapons for the wrong reason and shouldn't have them that we can do the background check properly so if you feel that this been done adequately there and if there's any help that you're needing please let me know so I I certainly appreciate uh your strong support for the men women of sieges um as we've discussed I think before uh in my view the the folks at sieges are the folks that in some ways have the greatest impact on the American people but that the American people know the least about um and one of those Services of course is nxs and the bipartisan safer communities act uh provided an important uh boost to uh our authorities in that in that space and additional funding now on the funding part though here's the key heard here's the key uh we're very grateful to this subcommittee and to Congress for the 170 positions that were provided to nck to implement bisa the problem the problem is that it was one-time funding yeah and so if this Congress doesn't reauthorize doesn't reappropriate I should say uh that funding we lose those 170 positions uh so we need to get those positions uh funded you know in sort of going forward and not just onetime funding and in addition that in the 25 budget we've asked for an enhancement it's not a huge enhancement but it is an enhancement with more positions because right now what's happening is the sheer volume of the new checks that we have to do is going to draw people away from the traditional background check as you notice we we're limited on time if I can get a couple more ins so I appreciate it very much but if you want to go ahead and brag on the uh people in Clarksburg West vir and all the good work they do I appreciate that very much uh and I'm very proud of him too the border the southern border I think you've touched on that how how absolutely horrendous that is and what we've got to do and all the threats that we're facing there and we're hoping today's Announcement by the president will give us some Light Of Hope no matter uh how much but any Improvement at all is going to be much appreciated so I know you're watching that very closely what I want to talk to is bothering me more than anything else is basically the attack on the judicial system we have in this great country the rule of law and I'm speaking as a Layman I'm not speaking as an attorney I'm not an attorney but I keep trying to explain to people my state is is is an R40 state if that gives you an idea how strongly that the president former president Trump has been supported and I want to make sure I'm accurate when I tell them they come to me and they said well it was a kangaroo court this and that happened and it wasn't fair and everything and I said well I understand that the process was that there was a peer a jury of of peers 12 it went through the process but and no means as it means it's over the rule of law the way I understand it in America no matter what state you're in I have a right to cure if I think I've had a misjudgment or basically someone who ruled and maybe took Liberties they shouldn't have taken that judge can be reprimanded can go through another appeal process an appell at court or and then he can go up to the state supreme court and then United States Supreme Court I think people have to understand the checks and balances we have in the rule of law there's no other country like us a lot of countries one and done they see it you're guilty you're gone not in America so for people I've sold the president presid former president's going to be on the ballot any way shape or form as I see I don't think anything can happen that's going to prevent him from being on the ballot and if you think that whether the D's or the RS or who's playing favors uh I I would I got to put that at rest because I'm concerned if we lose the rule of law and faith and confidence in the judicial system that we have and we've lost America as we've known it and your fears on that are concerns am I correct in saying that everyone has ability to cure if they think they've been misjudged so of course I'm not going to discuss any specific know I'm not I'm sorry I just but I I cly believe deeply in the rule of law yes um and I do think that it is one of the things that distinguishes the United States and our allies from countries authoritarian countries like China uh you know uh whether it's redress whether it's appeals sure um you know the way I've sometimes put it is uh when we've charged uh take China for example when we've charged uh folks acting on behalf of the Chinese government that's us saying we're so confident in the facts that we're willing to prove them Beyond A Reasonable Doubt in front of an independent court with all the redress and everything else you've talked about and we lose cases sure the prosecutors don't like me to remind people of that but we lose cases in this country the chines don't lose many cases and it's not because they're better I can assure you got I got you so respect for our just in general I'm not speaking about any specific case or any specific criticism but but respect for our institutions respect for our processes is something that I think is something we need to try to hold dear just again I'm speaking in general not about any specific well that's a greatest threat I think you know the border and then basically losing the respect that we have and and and the faith that we have in the judicial system that's my concern and the more you can do to educate the process and all the curing elements I have if I think I've been treated wrong I've got other ways to handle in America nowhere else does that happen thank you sir thank you Senator Mansion Senator Moran uh chairman thank you very much I'll yield my time uh in this round to the senator from Maine thank you very much it's very kind of you director Ray I want to follow up on my opening statement about the proliferation of the illegal marijuana operations in the state of Maine in rural houses all over the state this is a serious problem and our County state and local law enforcement have been working with Federal officials but they are overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task barely a day goes by that our sheriffs don't leave another operation to close down one of these growing operations and by the way the houses are full of black mold and will never be habitable again so that is also of great concern what is the FBI's theory about why Chinese Nationals or or Chinese transnational criminal organizations are setting up these illegal marijuana growing operations in States like Maine so it's something we have a number of Investigations into as you might imagine um I guess speaking in my sort of intelligence agency leadership role um we don't yet see uh but we're obviously investigating any direct ties between these grows and say the Chinese government itself but we are starting to to see as we unpack this more more ties between a lot of these growing operations and Chinese organized crime uh and as to why they might be uh viewing the United States rural communities Etc as an attractive market for this kind of activity uh at the moment our assessment is that it's com It's a combination of the fact that it is activity that can be done relatively cheaply uh and with by comparison to say other drugs in the United States the consequences that they face from a legal perspective are not as severe uh or that they might be in other countries where they might also want to operate so it makes for an attractive uh business proposition if I can speak that um blandly about it U so we think that's what's going on we're continuing to investigate this I'm very sympathetic to our state local Partners you're right that seeing it in rural communities we're even starting to see some of this creeping into to say tribal lands for example around the country um so uh it's an emerging um it's an emerging concern for sure uh but that's that's what I can say on it right now I guess thank you just one theory that I've heard is that these Chinese transnational criminal organizations are using it as a money laundering operation to bring more fentol into the country which is of course the last thing that we need um so I hope the FBI will continue its cooperation in the state of Maine with State local um County officials as well as with your other Federal Partners like dea and DHS IRS Etc I mentioned my concern about a terrorist attack Tech because I think the lights are blinking red uh there's a related issue that I want to bring up in the time that I have left and that is just this past Friday the FBI issued a joint intelligence bulletin that noted that anti-Semitism will likely continue to drive calls for violence against Jewish individuals and institutions in the United States could you uh comment on the threat to the Jewish Community which may originate organically here in the United States or may be driven by Hamas and other anti-semitic groups so uh we see and we have seen for quite some time a an elevated threat to the Jewish community community in the United States that was true even before October 7th so uh you know we saw last year a significant increase in hate crimes uh overall and then within that a significant increase of hate crimes against threats and other types of uh violent activity directed at the Jewish community and then since October 7th it you know the increase just went up dramatically I think in the first four months after October 7th we saw about a 60% increase in the number of hate crimes investigations we were opening and while not all of those were targeting the Jewish Community some were tarly Muslim Americans Arab Americans and others the the vast majority were targeting the Jewish Community put that in a little more context um the Jewish Community represents about 2 and a half% of the American population and yet within religiously motivated hate crimes about 60% of them close to 6 % of them are directed at the Jewish community so you can see the the reason why we think it is such a significant concern they are targeted by um foreign jihadist inspired terrorists uh whether it's Isis Al-Qaeda others they're targeted by Shia terrorists Iran and its proxies they're targeted by domestic violent extremists uh you know white supremacists and others as well as anarchists and some of the folks who are you know Pro Palestinian and so forth so they have the uh tragic distinction of really being targeted by almost every type of terrorist organization there is out there foreign and domestic across the Spectrum and so they desperately need our help and we're going to give it to them great thank you so much Senator Reed well thank you very much uh Senator Moren um director thank you for your service and please convey my deepest thanks to the men and women who serve with you um you indicated in your open remarks that last year you took a hit in your budget this year if you don't get what the president asked for how many personnel do you estimate you'll have to lay off well I we don't know yet how many because of course we don't know what what will happen I think at the moment the effect of the 24 budget um is that that's about a thousand positions that we can't fill uh and we are kind of muddling our way through the impact of the 24 budget but if if Congress were to in my view make the mistake of doubling down on that then the consequences would be very significant I mentioned the work we're doing to protect people from terrorism that's fewer tips and leads followed fewer terrorist attacks detected that's a significant concern in a heightened terrorist threat environment I mentioned violent crime arresting 50 bad guys per day every day the kind of cuts that you're alluding to means more violent gangs terrorizing neighborhoods more bad guys on the street to hurt people I talked about the threat from China the scale of the China threat is uh massive cyber alone they outnumber the FBI 50 to one so scaling backwards means that many more cyber attacks at a time when they're trying to Target our critical infrastructure among other things uh so it makes the the environment safer for for hackers I talked about the border we've got between 300 and 400 investigations into the cartels we're seizing enough fenel and FBI field offices and our task forces single seizures enough fenel to wipe out an entire state so cuts to our budget in 25 is going to mean more fenel on the street more overdoses more deaths more violence so when people ask me what is the effect of these cuts the people it hurts our state and local law enforcement and the people work together working with them trying to protect the people it helps are the terrorists the cartels the violent gangs the Chinese government the hackers the child Predators I can go on and on so uh I would implore Congress and again this subcommittee I think has has always been very responsive but I would implore Congress please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can make Cuts like this and not have real consequences to Public Safety and to our state and local Partners I think that's the part that keeps getting lost our state and local partners and I can say this with the perspective of having been in law enforcement since the mid 90s state and local law enforcement these days depends on the FBI more than ever not just for all the things I just listed off but for training technical assistance uh fingerprints DNA I mean you could just go right on down the list ncic Senator Mansion if you were here would I'm sure be glad that I was bringing up NCC when a when an officer does the traffic stop they're running the person's identifiers through the FBI databases back in West Virginia that information tells them whether the person they pulled over is dangerous so it just go straight to officer safety that's just another example all this stuff has put at risk when we start talking about cuts of the sort that we had in 24 and we just cannot have happen in 25 one of the uh ways we think around here and I might be exaggerating the think part is uh domestic defense domestic side defense side you're actually a National Security Agency but you're lumped in with u the domestic side um and we can't I think continue to think that way um your uh operation is just valuable to our National Defense as the Department of Defense and I happen to chair the arm Services committee so I think that point should be made I don't have much time left but you could you quickly characterize the domes domc terrorist threat particularly in the context of the election the domestic terrorist threat so um we have certainly we view the domestic terrorist threat as being pervasive s pervasive persistent I should say um uh and significant um and the biggest concern is Lone actors uh or maybe small groups uh acting against soft targets with uh easily accessible weapons often with with very little notice uh and it covers the Waterfront we've seen a lot of racially motivated violent extremism uh we've seen anti-government anti-authority violent extremism that covers a variety of of perspectives um and it is a threat that year after year continues to be a real concern thank you very much thank you Mr chairman Senator Reed uh I think our number in this CJs uh appropriation is $890 billion do that's defense spending so you can't uh make a clear distinction as sometimes people try to do well um I'm all for that uh I'm just trying to point out that you're right thank yeah I may I may not have made that clear because you seem to want to argue with me uh director uh you're talking about uh salaries and reduced uh Financial uh support for the FBI and our fy2 24 budget um it was really effectively a held flat with which it is is a challenge in inflationary times um you request 85.4 million for the restoration of 270 positions related to National Security and law enforcement um is this your highest priority the the restoration of positions is our highest priority yes and if that was accomplished if we were capable of doing that um that that that would uh the the benefit of that is just what you described to to Senator Reed correct right the the goal would be to uh allow us to sustain the pace that was set with the 23 budget uh because what's happened is the net effect of the 24 budget is to set us back 500 million because of the factors that you listed so the key is to restore uh restore our operations so that we can continue to hum against all the things that I was listing off to Senator Reed uh and not set us backwards and if that doesn't happen then we start falling even further behind is the problem do you have a significant number of vacant positions already we have some positions that are vacant our fill rate is actually higher than uh historically it has been at the FBI uh which is a good thing it's good news for America uh but between so we're trying to kind of manage our way through the 24 cut through a combination of attrition and how fast we're filling the vacant positions we do have but if again if it if it lasts if the if what happened with 24 is replicated then we're going to be in a real world of hurt is the FBI Workforce um what what's the age category is it uh aging or it's a young are the people nearing retirement that work at the FBI or uh well we had uh we're coming off of the heels of a uh um you might call it a bit of a retirement bulge when you just look actuarially so in other words if you went back 20 plus years there was a big hiring spree if you will post 911 uh and 181s armed law enforcement agents in particular in other words uh the the way the system works if they have 20 years in service and they're 50 years or older they're eligible to retire so so whenever you're looking at retirement age of the workforce you got to go back 20 plus years and see what was happening then and so there was we're coming off of a bit of a a bookend of that group uh so it's starting to level off as the last time I looked at it um so we're not in a big retirement bulge right now okay uh anymore um so that's part of why it's an issue director I mentioned in my opening statement uh the southern border and the challenges that uh we've had uh at the border I mentioned a member of Isis I mentioned uh a NBC news report about a individual that was on the terrorist watch list that was released I recognize that the primary responsibility implicates the failures of the Department of Homeland Security but the FBI terrorist screening Center is the primary Federal entity responsible for national security screening and for facilitating the sharing of information across government do these cases reflect a breakdown in our efforts to ensure that all government Partners have full actionable information they need uh to protect our citizens from terrorism so uh I'm not sure I can discuss specific examples but let me try to get at your question this way um so certainly we have seen over the last 5 to six years uh an increase in the number of uh known as suspected terrorist in other words watchlisted subjects uh uh attempting to cross the border uh and that is of concern uh and that's where there's a lashup between the TSC and CBP at the border that I think in general worked pretty well the bigger problem the bigger problem in my view is twofold one individuals who when they come in uh are either uh armed with fake documents or snuck in in some way or or and this is very important individuals for whom there's not enough uh derogatory information in the intelligence Community to watch list them yet so let me just unpack that a little bit because this is an important point because it kind of goes to what Senator Collins was asking me about uh and it may relate a little bit to your your other hat uh on the Senate intelligence committee so as we collect collectively across the intelligence community and with our partners less information about foreign terrorists over Seas there's less information to be had about who the people coming into this country are which then means would you say that sentence again I I missed the first part of the sentence so the way I look at it is uh as we have less collection overseas against foreign terrorism there's less there's less sources of information to inform people about people coming in so other words somebody could be coming in who should be watchlisted but isn't and it's not because of a breakdown between CBP and the TSC it's because the information that should have told everybody that this person is a threat has not yet been Unearthed by whatever intelligence agency it is out there because it's not just the FBI that puts people on the watch list we're getting information is actually a threat and so some of the cas that I have seen that concern me are situations where somebody comes into the United States it's not because there was a breakdown between CBP and the TSC it's because they weren't watch listed at the time but in hindsight they should have been watch listed because information was later developed that says uhoh this person is a problem you see what I'm F saying there right that's that's a much bigger concern um in my view um and so we really need to be focusing on how we can try to address that with the rest of of the intelligence Community with our partners and so forth when that happens when we find somebody who's here in the United States who we now then know this person needs to be put on the watch list then we use our joint terrorism task forces to go out and try to find the person work with our state local Partners we have the back stop of 800,000 sworn law enforcement Etc but that's that to me is a bigger concern than the number of ksts director just a brief followup is there a delay in timing once someone is known it's known that they should be on the watch list is there a delay before it's known across government agencies I don't know about delay I mean there's an inter agency process how long does it take I think it varies is a short answer I mean there is it's not just the FBI can snap its fingers and put somebody on the list there's a an inter agency very rigorous process to protect civil liberties and other things to to put somebody on the watch list but once they're on the watch list there's pretty much instantaneous notification to the relevant parties yeah thank you Senator Moran I would just point out to the members of the committee that the second vote has started um so anybody who hasn't voted you have your opportunity now um and I know there are a number of other hearings going on so I understand Senator van Holland you are um hoping to get back to another hearing so I um Senator Heinrich said it's fine with him as long as he's next so so we made a deal okay thank you both I'm yeah sorry I have secretary Yellen in front of my subcommittee so director Ray it is great to see you and I do want to start by you're not suggesting that she has precedent over director Ray no no of course not but I'm shering that one so um I I want to thank you for your efforts on combating domestic terrorism and and commend uh The Bureau for its uh work uh on that front in Maryland uh this time uh last year as a result of an investigation led by the FBI's joint terrorism task force two individuals uh affiliated with neonnazi groups were charged with conspiring to attack Baltimore's power grid uh facilities um their motivation stem from violent extremist white supremacist belief beliefs um and in recent developments just last month the FBI field office and the US attorney's office announced that one of the individuals pled guilty uh to conspiring to damage or destroy electrical facilities and will be sentenced in the fall uh facing up to 20 years for that crime so again thank you for your team uh in action uh also I'm sure you're aware of the fact that the uh attorney general was testifying in the house today in front of the house Judiciary Committee um as you know there are these these crazy uh conspiracy theories continue uh to fly so I wanted to ask you just to take this opportunity Unity to once again uh put a nail in the coffin of this idea that somehow uh the FBI was um was complicit in you know organizing instigating the the January 76 uh attacks you said in in July of last year uh so a little under a year ago quote this notion that somehow the violence at the capital on January 6 was part of some operation orchestrated by FBI sources and agents is ludicrous and is a disservice to our brave hardworking dedicated men and women unquote U director Ray um can you can you confirm just how outrageous um and and frankly dangerous these kinds of assertions are well first off I stand by my prior testimony um I think the men and women of the FBI work their tails off every day to protect the American people from a whole range of threats and I think um irresponsible inaccurate allegations like that are a disservice to these people who are putting themselves on the line every day to protect others um and I think it's uh unfortunate would be the kindest word I can use that is kind uh diplomatic but but but thank you for um reaffirming your testimony from um last year um speaking of the men and women of the FBI we we agree uh that they deserve our our thanks and they also uh deserve a new headquarters worthy of their work and as you know uh last year the GSA selected Green Belt Maryland for a new Suburban Consolidated uh FBI headquarters uh two months ago the GSA submitted a report uh to Congress requesting approval for use of previously appropriated funds for site acquisition and design of this new facility uh the GSA report notes that quote final facility size will be driven by updated FBI requirements unquote um director Ray is the FBI uh developing the necessary updated requirements for the new facility so we are uh working closely with GSA I think the short version of the process is that the report that was submitted in March I believe it was um was intended to get Congressional feedback on that uh because I understand it GSA needs that um needs that feedback in order to then do the much more detailed more labor intensive and even expensive work that's required to build out the the rest of it so we're continuing to work with GSA but I think we're we're waiting to hear back from from Congress uh or at least I know GSA feels like they need to hear back from Congress about the reactions to that um that higher level plan that you I think it's the same one that you referred to in March well let me just ask you this um are you are are you the FBI fully cooperating with all the GSA requests uh in order uh to prepare uh for the building of the New FBI headquarters are you fully cooperating with all of gsa's requests I believe I believe we are working closely with with GSA uh in cooperation with them uh in full compliance with with the law okay uh the specifics of exactly what conversations what meetings that part I I couldn't tell you right here right now but my understanding is that we continue to work closely with GSA uh on the project as contemplated by I only ask Mr director because we've not heard uh from GSA about need for feedback from Congress before they move forward in cooperation with the FBI so uh that would be news to me that I'll follow up with GSA about again I think the the way it was described to me was that the report that we worked on with JSA that was submitted again I think it was in March was uh intended to uh tell Congress the direction we or GSA are headed to get feedback was the word that was given to me uh from Congress I think in effect to make sure that we're in the right direction because the next steps are um significantly more uh labor intensive and and even expensive uh and so before we start doing too much of that GSA felt like they needed in effect a steer I suppose it is from from Congress on that okay thank you madam chairman thank you Senator Hinrich um well thank you Senators van Holland and Hinrich now Senator Heinrich when I said you would be next I did not anticipate that we would have Senator Kennedy coming in and he was here first okay so In fairness Senator Kennedy sorry Martin Mr director welcome I bet you just love talking about where to put the FBI building don't you probably one of your fa topics uh I've got two questions number one if you took the major Mexican drug cartels which also traffic people into the United States and turn them upside down and shook them president Lopez obor would fall out of their pockets wouldn't he well I don't uh I don't know that I can comment on a specific individual's um corruption other than through cases that we bring uh but I I understand the point that you're making for sure we're not getting much cooperation out of Mexico are we let me put it this way uh while we have had some successes here and there in terms of extraditions and so forth and I appreciate those and I'm grateful to our Mexican partners for those especially at the working level we need a whole lot more from Mexico than we've gotten in terms of shutting down the cartels and stopping the flow of the precursors I mean I could go on and on so I'm grateful for the the successes we have had but we need a heck of a lot more uh is the way I would answer that why don't we use leverage of what I call NAFTA 2 to try to encourage the president of Mexico to cooperate more you I mean NAFTA of course is a trade agreement um and um I'm not really an expert on trade relations um certainly from an FBI perspective we welcome every tool in the toolbox uh to try to improve uh the relationship and the cooperation and I'm hopeful uh that the Mexican Government will see the value of uh building on the successes we have had and take it to the level that it needs to be because it's not where it needs to be okay here's my second question we know that uh Jeffrey Epstein who is now deceased and and Miss Maxwell his associate who's in prison were engaged in a uh conspiracy of sex trafficking with minors so were others it's been widely reported what's the FBI doing to investigate the other people that were involved in the sex trafficking ranks well I'm not sure that I can um confirm any specific individual well let me put it this way let me give you some facts widely reported Jeffrey Epstein had video surveillance in all of his homes and on his private island and there has been there there have been articles after articles from Witnesses who have said he videotaped sex acts with prominent people because he was trying to curve with with young girls that he had procured to try to incur favor with those prominent people and potentially for to be able to Blackmail them now that's a fact and and and the FBI and other federal agencies have raided his houses do you have those tapes I again I I can't discuss the specifics of our law enforcement operations related to Mr Epstein or Miss Maxwell but obviously we had very active investigation related to both of them uh but whether it extends to other people I'm not sure that's something that comment on suit was filed yesterday against one of those prominent people by one of the young women sex trafficked allegedly said he was part of the ring so on the front page I don't know is this New York Times Wall Street Journal and we keep seeing article after article after article and we keep hearing about prominent person after prominent person after prominent person I just want to know if these prominent people are above the and are going to be and aren't being in investigated or is the FBI investigating well no one is above the law number one uh as to whether specific people are being investigated that's not something that I as I'm sure you can appreciate can engage on here we've devoted significant resources to the investigation um is it ongoing I'm not sure there's anything I can share with you on that but let me see if we can get back to you and provide a little more well for example allegations in this lawsuit the civil action I haven't I haven't seen you read article it'll trigger your gag reflex um is the FBI going to investigate that well I again I haven't seen the article but I would be happy to take a look at it and take it back and see if it's part of something I just like to know I share your yeah is the FBI still investigating this or are are these prominent people gon to go scotf free I'm not sure that I can tell you whether or not there is ongoing work being devoted to this I would be happy to take a look at the specific article I share your uh disgust at Mr Epstein's conduct and Miss Maxwell's conduct and others the whole operation okay thanks Madam chair sorry Martin you're a fine American anyway thank you Senator Kennedy Senator Peters Senator Hinrich has kindly consented to give you time to prepare for your round of questioning and he's going next because I made a deal with him okay um going we've done some musical chairs here I apologize um director I wanted to ask you a little bit about the bipartisan safer communities act and specifically how the engaged in the business language uh may have broadened your ability to perform better background checks and what impact that then has on other agencies ability to successfully prosecute things like the straw purchasing and gun trafficking uh Provisions in that law so uh certainly bisa was an important piece of legislation that uh has added to uh our authorities at nxs in particular in a number of ways uh in terms of additional background checks for the so-called u21 uh group in particular uh and I think that's important because as I go around talking State local law enforcement uh and I've been in talk to law enforcement all 50 states uh I believe uh easily uh in this job one of the two recurring themes you'll hear on violent crime is the the role of juveniles and the role of mental health almost every group no matter what state I'm talking to and so the the bipartisan safer communities act does I think take an important step in the right Direction in terms of addressing that that specific part of the threat the part that you're asking about is more in atfs Lane but we work very closely with ATF um on our Safe Streets and violent crimes task forces um and we're always looking for the strongest violation to disrupt the threat and so whether it's straw purchaser cases or or things like that uh I know when I was a line prosecutor I prosecuted tried a number of straw purchaser cases those are important tools uh and so often that's one of the best violations to to kind of dismantle a violent crime threat one of the other things that we haven't I don't think adequately addressed in the law yet but which is skyrocketing is these these ghost guns or privately made Firearms um law enforcement has seen a th% increase in recoveries between 2016 and 20121 in 2022 we had a a ghost gun was used to shoot and kill a 16 yearold at West Mesa High School in Albuquerque um and I wish that were an completely isolated case what is the FBI doing to recover and prevent assembly of ghost guns and and what tools more maybe even more importantly do you need from the Congress to be able to get your hands around this challenge so uh I would say ghost guns as you say represent a real challenge for law enforcement uh because the kits are cheap and widely available and undercut the ability to trace uh to trace the firearm and UN in effect end up undermining the the background investigation process and unfortunately we are seeing ghost guns more and more in violent crime and gang investigations now as to authorities you're really talking more ATF in terms of uh regulation or even legislation but we do coordinate closely whenever we seiz go guns as part of a a takedown we're obviously working closely with ATF on that as to other things that Congress can do to help at the risk of answering every question with the same answer we need Congress to restore the progress that was made in 23 so that we can sustain our efforts against violent crime and sustain our our work in terms of denials of firearms to the people who are legally prohibited from from having them yeah absolutely um on that note uh and I suspect it will be a similar answer uh you know we made some progress recently with the fend off fentanyl act that was really designed to prevent fentanyl from getting inside the United States in the first place but you have to deal with it once it's already here um you mentioned funding and the the potential impact that the budget could have on your ability to um disrupt that uh flow um feel free to reiterate the importance of that and then also touch on other tools that you may need that um to address the the sort of Crisis that we are seeing in communities all across this country so um we are finding most of the fentanyl that we seiz at the FBI is fentanyl that's already here in the United States and it's and what we're finding is that uh something like 70% of it is coming up in violent gang takedowns so that shows you kind of firsthand the Nexus between the fenel problem and the violent crime problem and some of the most dangerous offenders um and it is not unusual Not Unusual for the FBI for any given field office to seize enough fenel in one takedown to have wiped out an entire State God and so if you start thinking about the impact of the cuts that we've been talking about in this hearing that's fewer seizures that's more pills on the market that's more people dying I mean just put it as bluntly as that and that's just looking at it that way and of course we also have all these investigations into cartel leadership um and again the cuts impact that if we're going to be serious about going after the cartels uh among the other things that we're doing to try to tackle the fentanyl problem uh we're we have an initiative called jode that aggressively targets darket uh trafficking of fenel uh we just last year had an operation called Spector that was the largest ever uh I think takedown of uh darket t uh trafficking Marketplace of Fentanyl and other dangerous you know synthetic opioids uh so that's an important part of the of our work um I know uh in your home state of Albuquerque I just remembered off the top of my head there's a was a great takedown uh that they did where they were seizing enough fentanyl to wipe out like an entire State along with again back to the Nexus with violence along with hang grenades ballistic vests you know the whole nine yards so um the fentel problem and the violent crime problem are are inextricably linked and of course the fentel problem is directly tied to the problems from the other side of the border so not a great time to cut his budget certainly it's not it's unfortunate we have have another year of the fiscal responsibility act Senator Peters thank you for your patience well thank you madam chair Dr Ray good to see you again as always and thank you for your service to our country Dr Ray last year um as chairman of the homeland security and government Affairs committee I released a report on the watch listing and screening processes at airports uh and uh the report raised current concerns about the watch list including who it is shared with uh its implementation its over s it as well as the redress process in particular the report found insufficient transparency lack of an holistic approach to screening and no meaningful options to resolve concerns for Americans who believe that they were misidentified or subject uh the subject to discrimination certain communities such as Muslim Arab and South asian-americans report desparate screening during their travel and the breakdown and Trust over the inability to redress uh the process certainly I think you agree the administration uh including the FBI must uh effectively Target our resources to protect our country from terrorism first and foremost but we also need to respect the rights of of innocent Americans as well so my question for you sir is I I believe you're familiar with this report and what what steps have you taken to ensure that there's more transparency especially to Congress about the watch list and other data sets maintained by the terrorist screening Center as recommended in the report that my committee published so certainly I I agree uh as you stated that uh it's important that the database be used to protect our national security and at the same time uh respect of civil liberties um and no one is placed on the watch list solely because of race ethnicity national origin religious affiliation or any First Amendment protected activities and there is a a rigorous inter agency process there are continuous review and quality control measures constantly taking advantage of new methods and Technologies to strengthen those processes and while the FBI and the TSC as I know you know because of your other your other role are not responsible for the actual travel screening we do work diligently with uh the inter agency to try to make sure we're maintaining a current and accurate watch list recently uh the TSC published a uh put out a comprehensive document about the watch list process which includes everything from the process forom minations the use of the list uh quality assurance measures and uh to the heart of your question the redress procedures and so our hope is that that document strikes the balance of the two issues that you mentioned in terms of uh providing more transparency about all those processes so that people know how it works know how they can challenge if they if they have something they want to challenge uh while at the same time not compromising our national security uh ironically some of the transparency around this process could itself uh infringe on people's privacy and civil liberty because of you know who it identifies in a way that maybe they wouldn't want being identified right it is always a careful balance but we have to continue to work we've been working with your team we hope we can continue to to do that uh and it's been a particular issue uh in Detroit airport for example for reasons you and I have discussed uh many times um direct Ray we we have seen historic spikes anti-semitic anti-muslim and anti-arab American hate incidents certainly driven by the the war between Israel and Hamas uh we're also seeing Rising anti-immigrant rhetoric which is in the past has inspired domestic Terror attacks in Pittsburgh and El Paso for example doj has also announced it's investigating dozens of violent threats against election workers and has already convicted 13 individuals and as you said earlier you're increasingly concerned about the potential for a coordin ated foreign terrorist attack here in the Homeland so the threat of terrorist attack is high uh and we don't know what will inspire the next attack or or where it will happen but my question for you is given all of these threats how is the FBI now prioritizing resources to protect these communities from these very threats well uh you covered a waterfront because there's a waterfront threats um we uh so start with on the terrorism side terrorism which includes both um foreign terrorism and domestic terrorism uh remains our number one priority that has not changed uh and that drives uh prioritization within all the field offices for one thing second uh we uh a couple years ago elevated civil rights specifically including hate crimes to what we call a national threat priority and the effect of that is to drive prioritization in the in all the field offices uh in addition we created I created uh a few years ago U something that we call the domestic terrorism hate crimes Fusion cell because what I found was that sometimes the same Act of of violence could be considered either a hate crime or an act of domestic terrorism and many ways it's the same type of of attack it's just two different legal structures and in the FBI the criminal investigative division you know we have people who focus on hate crimes and then we of course we have people who focus on the National Security side on terrorism and so the this Fusion cell that I created brought the two groups together to ensure both that nothing slips through the cracks but also maybe more importantly to try to see if we can better anticipate and to be more proactive to prevent these attacks in the first place as to solely responding after they tragically occur and I'm proud of some of the work that was done including uh I think for the first time ever a uh couple years ago now a uh a proactive hate crimes charge that disrupted an attack against the synagogue um I believe it was in Nevada but it could have been in Colorado because there's one of each um great thank you appreciate that and look forward to continuing to work with you thank you madam chair thank you Senator Peters Senator Fischer thank you madam chair and thank you for being here today director Ray I continue to be concerned about the threat that the Chinese communist government poses to critical infrastructure in the United States especially when it comes to cyber security in Nebraska this presents distinct vulnerabilities for our agriculture industry and the nation's food supply for instance malicious code contained PL planting data and harm crop yields it also can be used by Foreign actors to steal our egg Innovation what internal mechanisms is the FBI relying on to counter cyber threats to the agriculture industry from China specifically so we we are specifically concerned not just as you are about the China threat more broadly but about the China threat as it relates to agriculture in particular uh I have uh visited our omah office a couple times I met with our partners there uh and I know from firsthand experience in contact with them that they are acutely focused on specifically the threats to Agriculture and in fact they're holding uh I think a big Summit soon uh that I was hearing about bringing people from all over the state and the region uh again very much focus on this issue um we have seen uh in the past the Chinese government or or people from China acting on behalf of China attempting to steal Cutting Edge agricultural research even to the point of uh I know in Senator Moran's home state of Kansas they we stopped a guy trying to you know fly out of the country with Cutting Edge agricultural research in Iowa I can remember we had guys out in the in the fields digging up genetically modified corn seed uh and we prosecuted uh worked with the doj to prosecute them uh so there's the theft the IP theft part and we know that China has specifically identified agriculture as one of its areas that it wants to uh Target uh it's quite explicit about that so that's a concern you also brought up I think the critical infrastructure dimensions of this uh and we have seen uh the Chinese government attempting to Target multiple sectors uh civilian sectors uh to preposition to potentially cause Havoc uh at a time and place of their choosing and so that's something that we're really trying to focus on so can you can you uh tell us that in uh in this setting uh specifically what sectors and where that's happened or should it be in a close set session um there's some sectors I could share publicly um whether there's anything I could share about agriculture specifically on that I'm not sure I know that what I can say publicly but it gives you a flavor of what we're dealing with uh we conducted uh with our partners a court authorized operation that took down and exposed a Chinese government effort to preposition on civilian critical infrastructure that included water Telecommunications uh and a variety of others and again there was no legitimate purpose to be on the parts of the networks they were on other than to be in a position to wreak havoc at a time and place of their choosing right you know we're in addition to cyber security um we're also worried about Communications Network that infrastructure there that the Chinese are looking at and it's been um um a challenge to be able to fund uh FCC the rip and replace program that's out there so we we know that the Chinese have that telom equipment there they we know the security risk that are involved are you able to share any updates um today from the FBI's work to evaluate uh the Chinese Network gear that's located especially next to us U military installations um again if you could do it here if it would need to be in a closed setting western Nebraska assets yeah on the communication side um and the whole rip and replace issue that's probably something better reserved for another setting uh what I can tell you is that we have a number of Investigations underway that relate to allegations um concerning buying up of land near installations that would be of concern um and it's not that there's anything inherently unlawful about foreign purch of land but we get concerned when the purchase uh purchaser may have ties back to a government that doesn't share our values and it's positioned near some crial and that that's what we follow as well is there do you have enough um availability is there enough transparency in these transactions to um easily discover if there's a connection to the Chinese there as I said earlier we have concerns in western Nebraska about some of this so it it is a challenge um we are uh on Farmland in particular we are working with USDA to try to look to some kind of mandatory reporting regime that might be helpful there um and so we're that's a relationship that continues to grow between the agencies um I would say that the Chinese government uh now that more and more businesses states countries are are wise to what they're up to are making making it harder to trace transactions and they're you know they're not just sort of looking at the combined efforts of us and our partners and just saying never mind they're doubling down and trying to figure out how to be more creative to try to hide the the the hand of the Chinese government in some transaction so we are having to work that much harder uh with Partners to try to be uh to to sleuth out uh the the involvement of some State Nexus thank you thank you Madam chair thank you Senator Fischer Senator Merkley thank you very much Madam chair and uh good to see you director uh director I wanted to uh explore a little bit the the challenge of the of the plot um to murder a seek activist here in the United States the uh Department of Justice unsealed an indictment uh and the individual I gather is in the Czech Republic and that and that we've established there are extradition possibilities is is that progressing uh I can say that I'm I'm uh very aware of the case you're talking about and I do feel the case is progressing there probably not a whole lot I can say about it for that reason but but yes the case is progressing but we're acely pursuing extradition uh we are I believe I can confirm that much yeah uh thank you the Washington Post reported that us officials have identified the individual in the Indian intelligence agency who was the crafter of the of the plot and that the plot was approved by the chief of research and Analysis swing which uh is the Indian spy agency I have not seen that we are pursuing indictments but are we pursuing indictments against uh individuals who not just the ass hired assassin if you will but those who who planned and plotted the assassination so that's a question that I I can't uh answer here uh what I can tell you just because it's an ongoing a very ongoing investigation um and what I will tell you is that uh we feel quite strongly as I think you do uh that um individuals cannot attempt to conduct lethal plotting in the United States uh even if they feel strongly that somebody is somebody they view as a um a bad actor that's not a recourse that they have available to them to engage in Lethal plotting I raise this particular case because I've previously raised and really tried to put a spotlight on the growing problem of transnational repression and as the chair of the Senate side chair of the Congressional executive Commission on China we hold a lot of hearings in which people are testifying many of those folks have been subject to transnational repression by the Chinese government this morning we had the anniversary the hearing on the anniversary of tanaman square and the individuals again spoke about uh the challenges they have faced in fact one individual uh testified with an assumed name and a and a mask uh in order to protect herself uh from um uh repression the previously uh I raised the issue of having a better uh Gateway for people to talk to the FBI about transnational repression because in the past the FBI had said well just tell people to call the General tip line that is not something hardly anyone does of those that I'm aware of who have have been subject to this uh they're not sure it's a crime they're not sure it will be confidential they're not sure there will be a Chinese uh speaker so in our F1 y 24 uh Bill uh we had report language that directed the FBI to ensure that its tip line is staffed by people with cultural and linguistic ability to communicate with the diaspora and knowledge of the tactics of transnational repression has the FBI accomplished that assignment well what I what I can tell you is that we have a uh transnational repression cell that is focused specifically uh not just on how we analyze the intelligence related to transnational repression but uh how we feed that into Outreach and engagement with the targeted um communities and that includes everything from translations into the relevant languages to supplying it to field offices for Community engagements with dissident and diaspora communities sprinkled around the country uh with the whole goal of being trying to address the very concern that you're um alluding to which is to to recognize that these are folks who uh in many case the transnational repression is at the hands of law enforcement from these other countries so they're understandably a little bit reluctant to turn to law enforcement here so it's an effort to educate them on what transnational oppression is how they can reach out to us to show them that we're there to help uh and that is valuable and thank you for having your Outreach teams engaged in that manner I'm still not hearing that they're presenting an opportunity to those communities in which those communities feel comfortable sharing their experiences so I want to continue to raise this I think from your response the specific assignment of having the tip line staffed with people with the linguistic ability specific to the population most affected may not have happened yet but I'll follow up with you in in that regard we have seen the and I am how quickly five minutes pass I'm so I'm out of time but I'll just close with u noting that this challenge is growing uh some of uh folks that we uh work closely with India included uh and turkey are now engaging in transnational repression it's particularly important that nobody gets a pass on this here in the United States people should not should not be possible for foreign governments to to threaten them or threaten their families back back back home at such a direct attack on freedom of speech and freedom of Association thank you thank you Senator merkay Senator Hagerty thank you madam chairman welcome director Ray director Ray we're in the midst of a critical election year and the American people need to be able to count on a fair process are you concerned about election interference this year a yes or no answer will suffice am I concerned about election interference uh yes uh I'd like to talk about one specific threat one specific concern that I have several federal laws prohibit using governmental authority to interfere in federal elections and the FBI would be in charge of investigating such a violation of federal law work to occur is that correct i' have to think about the specific example but certainly there's a a range of types of interference and elections that we have authorities to pursue um so I guess depends on the the facts the specific factual scenario certainly happened I know the FBI has investigated extensively in the past in this Arena here we have a situation that's unprecedented no former president no major candidate for president has ever been prosecuted criminally in American history yet now we have a situation where the incumbent president's major candidate major major opponent is being prosecuted in five separate jurisdictions by all by Democrat partisan prosecutors and all of this culminating right in the middle of an election season does that sound to you like coordinated election interference or is that just a coincidence well I I'm not going to discuss uh State pending state criminal prosecutions um that's not something I would ever do um the uh I'm talking about utilizing governmental authority to interfere in election let me get more specific what we saw happen last week was Alvin Bragg who ran on a platform of getting Trump do just that with a flimsy madeup Theory and a criminal conviction just this weekend the leader of the Soros organization came out and advised Democrats to repeat the slogan convicted felon so it could be imprinted on voters Minds Alvin brag facilitated that imprint and did just that is that coordinated election interference or is that just a coincidence that that would happen again I I with all due respect I'm not going to talk about you're talking about a state well let me get I'll go to I'll go to a federal level then uh if you look back to April of 2022 the New York Times reported that President Biden had told his advisers that he wanted Donald Trump prosecuted that was printed in the New York Times just days after president Trump announces that he's going to enter the election process Meritt Garland appoints Jack Smith to prosecute Trump President Biden's opponent is this coordinated election interference to go after your opponent in a federal election using the justice department to do it you're asking about a special account special councel appointment by the attorney general and a pending federal case uh that is in front of a federal judge and it's not something that I can appropriately discuss here well here's another situation when Leticia James was running for New York attorney general she came aign to get Trump in fact representative Dan golden Dan Goldman called it an individualized political Vendetta does it seem that using the criminal justice system for a political Vendetta is election interference or is that just a coincidence too again I'm I'm just not going to weigh in on pending state criminal cases it's not an appropriate role for the FBI the FBI has the duty to investigate violations of federal law and federal law prohibits the use of government authority to interfere in elections particularly a presidential election of this Consequence the FBI is not investigating it I presume who's going to investigate it who's going to look into this well again I I'm not going to talk about who we are or are not investigating uh because that's not something that's appropriate for me under doj rules I can tell you that we are going to do our part and we have up one part in protecting our elections from the threats that we have jurisdiction to investigate well the way the legal stars have aligned in this circumstance is deeply concerning not only to me but to the American people and I just stepped through a number of situations where it certainly appears that there is a coordinated effort to go after the president's main political rival and it's happening all of these are convening right at the same time right in the middle of an election year they're using facts or theories from years past but all of it is is coming together right at this point in time certainly looks like a coordinated effort to me and it certainly looks like the type of thing that the FBI should be investigating thank you madam chair thank you Senator haggardi I would just point out that I think there there are a number of people who do not support that conspiracy theory so I appreciate that you have that view if it's a conspiracy the the way this aligns is the most incredible thing I've ever seen Madam chairman and I share the director's view that that's not appropriate for the director of the FBI to comment on Senator Coons thank you madam chair and thank you director Ray um director I've had the chance to work with you in an oversight role U both during the Trump Administration and the Biden Administration uh and I admire uh the ways in which you have worked um do you think it's important that the FBI maintain its independence from any efforts to politicize the federal law enforcement system very much so I think the FBI has a unique role Ro to play uh in American society and in our legal system um and we need to be able to call balls and Strikes no matter who likes it uh and unfortunately in today's world it is a reality that with everything we do there's going to be somebody who doesn't like it uh but we can't get hung up on that to me that's what Independence means we're going to call it without fear about who's going to be angry or upset or alternatively joyous or happy about something we do we just can't go down that road so my commitment my focus as was stated I think very clearly to you and the rest of the Judiciary Committee when President Trump nominated me was that we're going to focus on doing the work in the right way we may not get the results that people want in this case or that case but I will do my best and I have continued to do my best to make sure we do our work in the right way I appreciate that we've known each other a long time and and I respect the way you conduct yourself uh as director um we've recently gone through an important process around fisa reauthorization uh in your both written and spoken testimony you said that the FBI is um principally focused on the protection of the American people from terrorism both domestic and international this is a top priority and there are significant threats um and I um think that there were some significant reforms codified in the reauthorization of section 702 and the surveillance authorities I'd be interested in hearing what you are doing to implement them to ensure that the Civil civil liberties of the American people are protected uh under your directorship and any potential successor and how you strike that balance appropriately given the urgency of also protecting the American people from terrorism so uh as you know the the law that was passed recently as the most significant uh rewrite uh of fisa since I think since its Passage um and there were not uh there was no kind of on-ramp period so we implemented it um you know sort of day one even though there weren't resources that were provided to do it and even though it came uh in an environment as I've already testified uh where we're dealing with effectively a $500 million cut but we're going to comply with all the requirements uh they are resource intensive in their own way because you're talking about pre-approval requirements um for one thing prohibit ition on certain queries again that have to be uh detected and audited I one of the things that I did even before the law passed is I created an office of internal audit at the FBI which did not previously exist whose sole Focus was on fic compliance and we achieved great strides in fisac compliance as is uh confirmed by the independently by the court but uh it is a significant um change in how we operate um and my message to the Troops is twofold one got to make sure you're doing it in the right way and number two given how critical this tool is to protecting the American people from foreign threats terrorists China Russia Iran North Korea cyber especially foreign cyber um we need to make sure that we're using it in the way that Congress and I think the American people expect us to do to protect them because it is an indispens able tool I don't use words like indispensable often it is indispensable well thank you and it's a two-year reauthorization I intend to follow it closely um as we reconsider it two years from now um as you know I've long been concerned about intellectual property theft Senator hatch and I passed the defend Trade Secrets act I think back in 2016 uh and one of the areas that I I think is a important priority for us nationally is to protect American invention and Innovation particularly from the CCP U because they intend to be a pure competitor or to exceed our capabilities largely by stealing our Innovations in areas like artificial intelligence and precision biology and other areas um what are you doing to address threats to American innovation um and how would the additional resources you're seeking for fy2 bolster those efforts so uh first off uh we are laser focused on our adversaries efforts to steal American intellectual property and there is no country I've been consistent on this for I think since early in my tenure and maybe even in 2017 itself there is no country that presents a broader more severe more comprehensive threat to our Economic Security our ideas our Innovation ultimately our freedom than the Chinese government I want to be clear I'm talking about the Chinese government not the Chinese people and certainly not Chinese Americans uh and what makes the threat from the PRC so pernicious is that they combined multiple tools so everything from Human efforts whether it's traditional Intelligence Officers Co-op tees corrupted insiders Etc with a cyber program that dwarfs that dwarfs anybody else's combined with uh what would otherwise be legitimate business activity joint ventures different kinds of mergers and Acquisitions Partnerships that are in effect just a vehicle to enable the other stuff and so you put all those Avenues together it becomes particularly challenging we have north of or around 2,000 active investigations that are just into the prc's efforts to steal our information and Technology it's up like 1,300% from where it was not that long ago uh all 56 field offices so and from investigation perspective we incredibly active and the resources are indispensable to to do that but investigations alone aren't enough we much more engaged over the last several years with the business Community trying to work with them so that they can figure out how better to harden their because they are the attack surface um so there's a lot of Outreach cyber the Chinese cyber effort is gigantic uh if you took all of the FBI's cyber resources and said forget Russia forget Iran forget rans somewhere just do nothing but China the Chinese government's hacking program would dwarf ours 50 to one so the idea that Congress would set us back instead of launching forward on that boggles my mind and so I would implore uh and I know this subcommittee has been a great Ally on this stuff but I would implore Congress more broadly to make sure that we don't do that because I can guarantee you the Chinese government ain't cutting its budget no well thank you director Ray I'm the chair of the intellectual property sub subcommittee Senator Tillis and I have a number of pieces of legislation we're trying to advance to strengthen um the tools to protect Rip but you also need the resources thank you madam chair thank you Senator Senator Mary thank you madam chairman director uh welcome to the committee thank you for your leadership talk about fenel fenel just for a moment um uh Alaska continues to outpace the other states unfortunately this is a position in place that we would never ever want to be between 2022 and 23 we saw the largest percent increase in drug overd deaths um of any state by far we're we're referred to as quote one of fentanyl's Deadliest Frontiers just from last year um the drug overdoses increased uh by 40% um from 22 to 23 fy22 to 23 and of this of these overdoses three4 were from Fentanyl and so we are we're seeing um uh we're seeing our cities uh under attack but even more troubling is the very very remote small um often times Alaskan native Villages Villages of 800 people where the uh the cartels those who are moving these drugs know that they can get 10 times more for this poison than anywhere else and so they're targeting our smallest of small communities um so we're seeing this this awful increase and yet if we look at what is happening um in other areas many states have seen reductions in overdose death rates during this same period what are they what are you doing there that is allowing for greater levels of success what are the obstacles to doing the same in places like Alaska um it was it was somewhat gratifying to see a recent announcement that the US attorney's office there in in Alaska had had um announced new charges against this this ring um where there had been 53 defendants named now there are additional charges this is good this is positive but um where we're looking at what we're up against and we're a state where the stuff is coming in by air it's coming in a little bit by by vessel but that and and the males so we know where the points of Entry are um and we're we're still not able to do the interdiction that is is making a difference to turn this around you got any words that you can share with people who are really very very anxious about what we're seeing with FAL well certainly uh I'm acutely aware of what a big problem is up there uh and of some of the challenges that law enforcement in your home state have to contend with I I've been up to visit as you know a couple times and on one of them in particular the Alaska State Troopers uh with with whom we have a great relationship took me up in a helicopter to be able to kind of get a better sense of just the sheer sprawl and remoteness of some of the communities that you're you're talking about uh we are working through the uh Alaska high-intensity drug trafficking area initiative and that's that's a big part of it not just on the investigations enhancing those but promoting inter agency Partnerships uh increasing awareness part of uh part of that effort in addition to Big cases like the 53 person one you mentioned uh and the seizures that came with that um is to try to make sure that people uh including in some of these more remote communities kind of know uh what behaviors to be on the lookout for how to report who to report it to that kind of thing you mentioned some of the reduction in overdose deaths in that you're seeing in some other states the one thing I would say about that is that overdose deaths as a a metric for um progress I think is is in some ways uh frustratingly misleading because first first response is getting so much better in some states so that what you're having is uh the same you might have the same or maybe even more overdoses but because there's wider availability faster availability of Naran the people who were overdosing who before would have died aren't dying and so it it has the the pernicious effect of making people feel like they're making more of a dent in the problem than they are don't get me wrong it's it's great that the people aren't dying and it's great that there's emergency care to keep them alive but overdose deaths in some other state may not be uh as successful as um as it might appear to you by comparison and I I absolutely get your point and what we need to be doing is basically choking choking the poison off in the first place so it doesn't get to my state or any others I'm I'm I'm out of time here but I want to ask one final question here and this this relates to the Not Invisible commission this is related to murdered missing indigenous people uh they got their report to Congress and the federal agencies back November of last year it recommends that law enforcement including FBI are trained in m m mmip violence crime and human trafficking coordination with bie and all of that and I'm hoping that we've got some good progress that is being made by the FBI in implementing this the provisions of this report the concern that I have here is Is We I just mentioned the fentanyl crisis in this state um we've got a stepped up initiative that we must do when it comes to uh those vulnerable people um uh murdered missing and particularly our indigenous women but we've got one field office in Alaska for the FBI we have two satellite offices one in Fairbanks and one in Juno do you think that that is sufficient resourcing to cover state that you have acknowledged is is you know it's huge it's 1if the size of the the rest of the country but to be dealing with these issues that are impacting Us in disproportionate ways do we need more resources up north we clearly need more resources although I will tell you we need more resources just across the board uh and that the I say sometimes but it applies very much to this context everywhere I go somebody has a really good and I don't mean that sarcastically a really good idea of someplace the FBI needs to be devoting more resources I have not yet found anybody who can tell me in any responsible way where the FBI can be devoting less resources and so this is a time for Congress to lean forward in the in this next appropriation uh I'm very aware of both how small our field office our Anchorage division which as you say includes not just the headquarters City and Anchorage but the other two Ras as well uh by comparison to just the sheer immense uh area that they have to cover uh and it's always strikes me every time I'm talking with them about the challenges that that presents not just the sprawl but how few roads there are and how that people have to get around and all the things that does to complicate law enforcement uh work in that area so uh Anchorage needs more resources but the FBI needs more resources FBI needs more resources the question that I didn't ask you was about the nor norn border and what we're seeing with those on the terrorist watch list coming through because we're anxious about that so we got all kinds of issues and again how we're resourcing um regardless of where it is is is a challenge so thank you m chair thank you Senator marowski Senator Capo thank you madam chair and ranking member and thank you director Ray for being here with us it looks like I might be your cleanup batter here so that might be good um I want to go to uh something that Senator marowski was talking about she talked about her State you're well aware of uh West Virginia uh unfortunately leading the way and and our numbers went up a little bit over the last year which was very discouraging because we have a lot of communities and Community involvement and the FBI has been involved with this on the law enforcement side but all kinds of issues to try to lower those numbers so it was a bit disappointing to us but I want to ask of what the FBI the the drug cartels the transnational criminal organizations that we see along our Southern border mostly I would imagine um what kind of what kind of additional resources or uh different strategies uh can the FBI employ because obviously fentanyl still coming streaming across uh the southern border they're obviously pressing uh a lot of the pills as they before they come over the whole thing with the chemicals coming from China what are you seeing in this in terms of targeting uh the uh transcontinental uh criminal organ ganizations so certainly the the vast majority of the fentel in this country uh comes from the cartels in Mexico sourced from precursor chemicals from China right um and then is trafficked here or distributed here primarily by violent gangs um and so I think to be effective against the threat which is really an epidemic uh we need to be trying to hit all of those different choke points um the FBI plays a role some role in almost all of them but not uniquely this is way bigger than any one government agency frankly it's bigger than government itself but so we are through our Safe Streets task forces going after the gangs that are Distributing this stuff on the streets we are through our transnational organized crime task forces and working on osad strike forces going after the cartels and the cartel leadership which are the source of Supply we are trying to push in our own way the Mexicans and we do have good relationships with our Mexican law enforcement counterparts but but this sort of Onie TWY effect of a great extradition here a takedown there those are things to be celebrated but they really aren't enough to make to affect the problem at scale and then the China piece the precursor chemicals is a huge part as well one of the things we're trying to do now uh and I'm I'm very pleased about this the Director of National intelligence of real haes has convened and we've been doing an intelligence Community Sprint on the fental problem to try to figure out how we can better ensure sharing of information between the different uh intelligence agencies who are not law enforcement and law enforcement to have the information flowing we clearly have to go after the money after all this whole thing is profit based right so we need to figure out better ways to go after the money uh so some of those are some of the things that need to be done um but it is uh it is incredibly frustrating I know that our offices in West Virginia who are dealing with as you say on the receiving end of so much of this problem um I'm continue to be blown away frankly by how high performing those office some of the takedowns they've had in West Virginia for you know comparatively small footprint um is really something that's inspiring I guess that's a plus and a minus the minus being they're there uh the plus being they're being being disrupted and and and um uh caught so that's congratulations to them I know there's been some big busts I want to ask you about the Nick system um because the question I have is and thank you for the visit and I thought it was a really good visit I'm trying to understand your budget where you've uh you've uh you have a technical adjustment of 43 million proposed in your budget regarding implementation of the bipartisan safer communities act um we're being told that this could impact the 170 people that are at the Nicks facility they're working in that how is that going and I know and can you explain a little bit the uh anomaly that you have here as one of the program changes for 2025 so there uh I can see why it's confusing a little bit there's two things going on one is the 170 positions that Congress uh gave us with bisa right was one-time funding and so one of our request which I think is 43 million tied to the 170 positions is designed to make sure that one-time funding because we've largely filled almost all of those 170 positions if if we don't get that reappropriated that's gone um so that's incredibly important that we get those 170 positions and that 43 million reauthorized so that's part of it then on top of that though because of the pace and the volume we have asked for a um smaller but nonetheless an enhancement so it's it's a bottom line it's restore the not restore but maintain the 170 which was one time only and then and then add a little bit with the enhancement that we've asked for you know some of the and I I'll stop here but the statistics that we this was early on when the bipartisan uh uh bill was being discussed at ncks uh there were had been some disruptions where uh the information showed that it if you knew what had happened pre 18 years old you you would have fallen into that category and there were disruptions where people were unable to secure a weapon and uh because of mental health or whatever um is that continuing I mean is that Trend continuing that is disrupting we're definitely seeing that uh I'm struck by the number of times when we have that you know because there's mental health piece there's the juvenile piece then there's the contact with law enforcement about the the individual piece and the number of times when the conversation the exchange with uh law enforcement and whatever state it is is saying whoa yeah we know who that is and that would not be a good thing um uh we are we have significantly improved the uh the timeliness of those you know I remember when you and I were there it was still kind of a a work in progress but it's I think it's up like tenfold how much faster it's happening which is great but part of the reason we asked for the enhancement on top of the original part is that um because of course we're going to conduct the congressionally mandated checks but the need more we we're very proud as you know and as I know you are of how quickly Nick can turn things around so that the giant majority of people who are law- abiding citizens who have a Second Amendment right to buy their weapon can get it timely and not have it be held up but the problem if we don't get the funds appropriated is it's going to have an impact on on how much we can cover and how fast we can cover it yeah I mean just for context uh I saw the the stat statistics that came that I have just last data point is in 2023 uh there were uh 29 million ncks firearm background checks in the country that go through our the office in West Virginia so thank you very much thank you Senator Capo um I have not yet asked questions so I will do that um and then I know Senator Moran has one more question question but I I wanted to go back to the issue of disinformation and election security you talked about China having a 50 to1 cyber advantage in terms of their cyber operations we saw before the New Hampshire primary earlier this year a domestic actor who used artificial intelligence to voice clone President Biden and Target voters in New Hampshire as part of a robocall scam how how are we responding I mean this was a domestic issue but it points to the potential challenges from Ai and the threat that that can present to our elections so how are we responding to what we're already seeing from Russia and China in terms of the disinformation and how are we sharing how is the FBI sharing what you know with local uh law enforcement and election officials so that everybody's aware what the threat is so um we are of course seeing and I've been warning about this for some time the uh the role of AI to enhance um efforts that our foreign adversaries have already been engaged in and one way to think of that is just like social media when it first really came of age was this gigantic bullhorn that took something that has been happening for decades namely foreign disinformation Warfare uh and just scaled it in a way that was particularly challenging I think that's the right way to think about AI it's it's not that it changes fundamentally what it is our adversaries want to do or why we need to be worried about or what authorities the FBI has in our role in combating it it's it's it it allows them to amplify to do it to make it more sophisticated more deceptive cheaper faster all the reasons people love AI for good things they can used for bad things um and so our approach is in many ways much the same which is to make sure that we're engaging with our partners sharing what we're seeing and hearing where we have authorities that uh apply to us taking action uh but information sharing is the key um I will say that when it comes to AI specifically there's an increasingly important role for the private sector because if you're going to detect AI at scale certainly it's going to be the American private sector that's going to be the key to doing that uh so we are trying to partner up with the business Community to make sure that they're doing their part on that because AI is actually pretty good at detecting AI um and there is a role America leads the world in AI Innovation which is why the Chinese are trying to steal it by the way uh and that's why we need to make sure that American companies are using their Innovation to help protect our democracy so there more that we should be doing in Congress to um make it in the interest of some of those companies that they do a better job of policing what is on their sites well that's probably a longer discussion for another day I I will just say for right now because this is important and I know it's something you both care about when it comes to these companies there is this broader phenomenon how important it is for them to take some kind of ownership for the the way in which their products and services are used uh and that applies not just in this context but in sub in a subject that you will hear about from law enforcement not all not just all over this country but all over the world is the way in which these companies are implementing warrant proof encryption which basically means that child Predators terrorists fentel traffickers Etc can find a space where they can go and communicate and act uh and law enforcement no matter how Rock Solid your legal process is and how independent the judicial approval is won't be able to have access to this information the threats won't be gone the kids will still be victimized the Predators will still be out there but now the companies knowing that this is happening or moving in this direction it's a business decision that these companies are making and so I don't think it's unreasonable for us to expect these companies to take some ownership of this process and if we don't do something collectively as a country we're going to wake up and find that we are blind in a way that's really going to put people's lives at risk well that's an excellent segue into my next question which is um we are hearing about a new and growing threat where individuals have been using content manipulation so AI to create sexually explicit photos and videos that appear to be real it complicates investigations because it's difficult to tell what's real and what's not um so I know that the FBI has released a public service announcement earlier this year warning about this but can you talk about um how we're also asking private companies to look at that issue and do a better job of policing what's on their sides certainly we share your concern about online targeting of kids it's it's not just magnified the problem but it's created a whole new set of actors and globalized the problem problem so you have financially motivated extortion for example uh which has started to get more notoriety and AI is just one more tool a weapon in that context to to enhance those efforts uh but while the technology may change uh whether it's AI generated or not child sexual abuse material is illegal and we're going to aggressively go after it uh I would like to continue to work more and more closely with companies to try to see how they can be part of the solution uh and I think there's a lot of opportunity for that uh we our folks in that program the violent crimes against children program are some of the hardest working people in the entire FBI dealing with some of the worst that Humanity has to offer um and I think we last year had something like 3,000 arrests and rescued for all intents and purposes something like 700 kids so I again I come back to the budget discussion right uh what's going to happen to those kids if congress makes the mistake of going backwards like they did in 24 with the budget well I think you won't get any argument from Senator Moran or me about that um I just want to close with one um question final question and that has to do with um anomalous Health incidents also known as havanah syndrome because the FBI has been one of those agencies that's been working to establish policies and procedures to to provide help for people who are affected can you give us any kind of an update on um where you are in that process and um whether people are beginning to see support that they had hoped for for treatment so uh as you know there's nothing more important to me than the health and safety of of my Workforce and their families um and the uh benefits provided for um required doj to issue regulations to allow us to start to to make the payments uh I'm I'm pleased that those regulations finally went into effect uh last month uh May 20th uh we didn't sit around just waiting for that though we put in place all kinds of procedures and mechanisms so that the minute the regulations went into effect we could kick in into high gear and start the payment process and so I know we have I can't give you the exact number but I know we have people already because we've been trying to improve our communication with the workforce too about this so I think I know that we already have some people whose payment uh applications and so forth are now already under the rules now in in process um and so I'm hopeful that it'll now flow quickly because we didn't have to then build on additional delay after the time the the rules went into effect great thank you I'm pleased to hear that Senator Moran s Shaheen thank you director um just almost every day certainly every week I have a conversation with someone in Kansas or a I read something in the newspaper or here on television or radio news about a ransomware a Cyber attack I mean it's just it it's prevalent it's more than prevalent it's dominant uh and it's a you know a small business it can be the courthouse uh our state's court system uh the county Treasures Office um what what is it that we could be doing uh perhaps just as public servants to try to minimize the chances that somebody is attacked or that they take the necessary steps to prevent it is there a you talked about the private sector in the in the conversation with Senator Shaheen is there a chamber of commerce a business organization um who who what is there are there steps that a business can take uh a County Commission a city office that can take to prevent this from happening and are there tools that need to be provided to local law enforcement to assist in this I I think this is so common that I don't know how it the solution can rest with law enforcement of the FBI in particular and my guess is that any kind of effort to to prosecute or to shut down those who are committed the cyber attacks is ends in uh not a significant amount of results so uh for all the reasons you said ransomware is one of our top uh certainly one of our top cyber priorities um I think there are a few things I would say um with a glimmer of some good news buried in there um so the first is that uh we are very heavily engaged in private sector Outreach specifically to try to build resilience and Harden uh the private sector's infrastructure from ransomware attacks um there are basic things that can be done you know for example in terms of having appropriate backups and things like that I think you would be surprised uh to learn how often ransomware attacks are enabled not by some really sophisticated uh you know black belt level intrusion but by somebody somewhere at a business who uh didn't engage in proper cyber hygiene you know they clicked on the link that they shouldn't have clicked on it it happens way more often than you would expect including in very sophisticated places or the company or the business didn't upload the appropriate you know those patches and updates that we all get and those things matter so things like that if every victim or victim to be took some of these basic cyber hygiene steps we wouldn't stop ransomware I want to be clear but we would significantly make it harder for ransomware actors to be successful so that's one and so the more everybody can help us spread that message we will build some greater level of resilience that way the second thing that is just incredibly important is we need the victims to reach out to us as quickly as possible when they're hit I think sometimes people are worried because we discourage paying the ransom that if they tell our position is we don't think you should pay the ransom and we're happy to explain why but whatever you decide to do make sure you contact us because there have been times when businesses have contacted us quickly where we're able to help them figure out we've they've had cases where we've been able to obtain decryption keys so they can get their systems unlocked protect their information and not pay the ransom but that can't happen if they don't contact us um there are time times when we can chase the money working with the victim and basically claw back the ransom before it gets to the bad guys so things like that that we can do but none of it we can do if the company doesn't contact us right away that's what's so important there's lots of things that can happen the last part that I would say is we are starting to figure out not just the FBI but collectively with our partners what success against ransomware could look like and that is joint sequenced operation s uh campaigns sustain campaigns against particular ransomware actors where we go after not just the the administrators of the ransomware group and and their Affiliates but their whole ecosystem their money launderers their service providers uh you know they're bulletproof hosters all that stuff so we're going after all the people that are related to the ransomware group we're going after their infrastructure so we're seizing their servers shutting down their domains things like that so we're going after the people we're going after the infrastructure and then of course ransomware is a you know is a for-profit crime we're going after their money we're chasing their crypto currency which is invariably the way the ransoms are paid and we're getting better at disrupting the flow of the ransom back to the ransomware actors we're not where we need to be but we are starting to see signs we've had situations where we'll knock down a particular War a group and they're flailing around and out of business for you know months and months at a time so we get we've got we started to get a taste of what success could look like and it's again it's a joint it's a team effort FBI uh some of the other intelligence agencies foreign law enforcement the private sector itself all kind of working together uh and so we have had some successes I think about the hive ransomware group where we had basically hacked the hackers and gotten into that and they didn't know we were in and so this they kept trying to conduct ransomware attacks we kept getting the decryption keys and providing them to the victims and then it wasn't working eventually we dismantled the whole thing but we're getting more Innovative and creative and using uh cord authorized operations not just to try to arrest people although we definitely want to do that but to essentially shut down the the operation itself uh that is more encouraging than I expected if if someone is um subject to ransomware Cyber attack they'd call their local police department their County sheriff and those local law enforcement officials would know what to do is that a is that a true statement would would not know what would would know what to do local law enforcement knows what the next step is well I think we we try to engage with local law enforcement as you know because you've seen it firsthand in Kansas every day my hope would be that the local law enforcement would tell them contact that local FBI fill off but really they should be contacting us uh because there are things that we can do that probably the local police chief or Sheriff you know can't um uh but of course again I'm going to sound repetitive here all these things take resources uh and in particular in the Cyber Arena we need to be able to make sure we can pay and train the most sophisticated cyber talent and that is an issue within the federal government uh to make sure that pay authorities and of course the funds that are appropriated behind it are even across the federal government so we don't have a situation which I am concerned about where other federal agencies start cannibalizing each other for the Cyber talent that we all need so we do need to make sure that there's pay authorities and pay funding to ensure that real black belt Talent who makes all the difference in some of these cases the FBI has those auth have those pay authorities do you have those pay authorities our authorities are not where they need to be um so it's a combination of both the funding and the authorities it's a it's a mix and I wonder if Insurance private insurance is a component of addressing this problem more more businesses or entities that get insured against a ransomware attack I assume the insurance companies then are going to insist on different Behavior by their insured I do think Insurance you know cyber insurance is an important part of all this um now I will say we see ransomware actors researching uh victims and researching Insurance to try to figure out you know it's kind of like well I want to figure out how much they have in their wallet before I Rob them you know kind of thing so there's a little bit of that going on but I would not discourage people from getting the insurance uh and we do have our own engagements with the Cyber insurers as well to try to make sure we're working with them uh so that's another important piece to all this I would compliment you on your capability of being repetitive today thank you you think we got the message what was he saying um thank you director Ray if there are no further questions Senators May submit any additional questions for the subcommittee's official hearing record until June the 11th we would ask that the FBI respond within 30 days to any of those future questions and now the subcommittee stands in resent subject to the call of the chair thank you thanks thank you for

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Length: 130min 30sec (7830 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 04 2024