[THEME MUSIC] >> WELCOME ONCE AGAIN TO "FR. SPITZER'S UNIVERSE" AT THE BUSY INTERSECTION OF WHERE FAITH AND REASON INTERSECT AND I'M YOUR HOST, DOUG KECK, THE MOTHERSHIP AS FATHER CALLS IT, WHERE MOTHER ANGELICA BEGAN IT ALL. EMAIL YOUR QUESTIONS TO US WHICH ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE SHOW. ewtn.com SPITZER AND ALL THINGS AT magiscenter.com AND crediblecatholic.com. IT IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE ON DEMAND AND ON THE YOU TUBE CHANNEL FOR ALL PROGRAMS. WE HAVE CATHOLIC TEACHING VIDEOS, MORE THAN ANYBODY, ONLINE. AND WE'RE CONTINUING WITH THE, THE BEELZEBUL CONTROVERSY CHRIST VS. SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES. THIS IS AT ewtnRC.com. COUPLE OTHER BOOKS FROM EWTN PUBLISHING, TOO. MOTHER ANGELICA'S GUIDE TO THE SPIRITUAL LIFE. BY THE ONE AND ONLY MOTHER ANGELICA. BLUE COLLAR APOLOGETICS, HOW TO EXPLAIN AND DEFEND CATHOLIC TEACHING USING COMMON SENSE, SIMPLE LOGIC, AND THE BIBLE BY JOHN MARTIGNONI BOTH OF THOSE ARE AVAILABLE FROM ewtnRC.com. NOW, LET'S TURN TO FATHER SPITZER AND ASK HIM TO START OFF WITH A PRAYER AS WE WELCOME HIM. >> Father: ABSOLUTELY. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT. HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE US THANKS FOR THE BLESSING, HIS PROGRAM, MINISTRY AND WE ASK YOU, LORD TO SEND YOUR HOLY SPIRIT DOWN UPON DOUG MYSELF, OUR WHOLE AUDIENCE THIS DAY SO EVERYTHING WE DO IS BROUGHT TO FRUITION IN YOUR WILL FOR THE GOOD OF YOUR PEOPLE, CHURCH, AND KINGDOM. WE ASK ALL OF THESE THINGS THROUGH JESUS OUR LORD. AMEN. AND MARY, SEAT OF WISDOM, PRAY FOR US. IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. HOPE YOU ARE WELL AND WE HAVE OUR TOPIC FIRST OF ALL. RECENTLY, WITH SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE TEXAS LAW HAVING TO DO WITH ABORTION THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH, CATHOLIC LEAGUE PUT OUT A STORY, WHEN DOES LIFE BEGIN, MR. PRESIDENT. IT GOES BACK AND CITES, LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION. THAT'S THE CHURCH'S JUDGMENT. I ACCEPT THAT IN MY PERSONAL LIFE, THAT'S WHAT VICE-PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SAID IN 2012, AND ALSO IN 2008, BUT RECENTLY IN THE TEXAS LAW, HE SAYS, I RESPECT THOSE WHO BELIEVE LIFE BEGINS AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. I DON'T AGREE, BUT I RESPECT THAT. THAT'S WHAT HE SAID BASICALLY ABOUT A WEEK AND A HALF AGO. SO, THE QUESTION IS, THE SCIENCE DID NOT CHANGE MR. BIDEN NOR HAS THE TEACHING ON THE SUBJECT. SO, WHY DID YOU? AND THE QUESTION COMES WE'RE SO BUSY WORRYING ABOUT THE SCIENCE, WHEN DOES LIFE BEGIN AND THE TEACHINGS OF YOUR CHURCH AND SCIENCE BOTH AGREE IT'S AT CONCEPTION. WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE WRONG. CLEARER IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS ABOUT CONCEPTION AND FERTILIZATION BEING THE POINT WHICH A NEW SPECIFICALLY HUMAN BEING COMES INTO EXISTENCE, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S TAKE FIRST, THE DNA PART OF IT. THERE'S A COMPLETE UNIQUE SPECIFICALLY HUMAN GENOME PRESENT AT THE MOMENT OF FERTILIZATION CLASH CONCEPTION. THERE WILL NOT BE, HAS NOT BEEN ANY OTHER HUMAN BEINGS LIKE THAT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD THAT HAS NOW JUST COME INTO EXISTENCE AND ALSO WITH THE ZYGOTE CELL ITSELF. THE ZYGOTE CELL IS A SPECIAL KIND OF CELL UNLIKE ANY OTHER CELL IN THE HUMAN BODY LIKE SKIN, HEART, MUSCLE CELL. IT ORIGINATES EVERY OTHER CELL THAT IS GOING TO OCCUR IN THE HUMAN BEING OVER THE COURSE OF HIS OR HER EXISTENCE. THE ZYGOTE. NOT ONLY DOES THE ZYGOTE CELL ORIGINATE ALL OTHER CELLS IN THE HUMAN BEING, BUT IT'S THE UNITY OF ALL OF THOSE OTHER CELLS OF A HUMAN BEING THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THE HUMAN BEING'S LIFE. AND NOW, IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN YOU FIND THE FULL SPECIFICALLY GENOME WITH THE ZYGOTE, GIVING RISE TO ALL OTHER CELLS, WHAT'S THAT MEAN? THAT MEANS THAT THE SUBSTANCE OF A HUMAN BEING IS THERE AT THE MOMENT OF FERTILIZATION AND CONCEPTION. THAT MEANS THAT THE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT IS IRRELEVANT. THE STAGE OF IRRELEVANT IS JUST THE UNFOLDING OF THE SUBSTANCE. AND THE SUBSTANCE IS THERE. IN TOTO. JUST GOING TO UNFOLD, JUST AS IT WERE, DEVELOP OVER THE COURSE OF THE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. IT IS NOT RELEVANT. AND YOU CAN'T SAY THE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT IS NOT ADEQUATE TO A HUMAN BEING BEING PRESENT WHEN THE SUBSTANCE OF THE HUMAN BEING THAT IS DEVELOPING IS PRESENT. IT DOESN'T NEGATE IT. SO, ONE IN ARISTOTELIAN TERMS, IT'S THE MAIN ESSENCE, NATURE OF THE THING. THEN, THE STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT IS WHAT WE CALL AN ACCIDENT, CHARACTERISTIC THAT ATTACHES TO THE SUBSTANCE. A CHARACTERISTIC THAT COMES OUT OF THE SUBSTANCE. AND THAT CHARACTERISTIC CANNOT NEGATE THE SUBSTANCE ITSELF. OTHERWISE, THE CHARACTERISTIC WOULD BE IRRELEVANT. SO, THE POINT IS PRETTY CLEAR. THERE'S A HUMAN BEING PRESENT AT THE STAGE OF A SINGLE-CELL ZYGOTE, SLASH, CONCEPTION. IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT A FULL HUMAN BEING, FULL HUMAN SUBSTANCE IS PRESENT IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT STAGE THEY SAY. THAT IT COULD SOMEHOW NEGATE THE SUBSTANCE THERE, IT'S MAKING MORE FUNDAMENTAL THING INTO A FUNDAMENTAL ONE. AND YEAH, THERE COULD BE NO DOUBT IN ANYBODY THAT A FULL HUMAN BEING WAS PRESENT. >> IS THAT THE REASON THAT IT'S MORE AND MORE OBVIOUS FOR GENERAL SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE, THAT IT'S TOTALLY ABOUT CHOICE. MY ABILITY WHAT I WANT TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO BECAUSE OF THE OTHER ISSUE THAT IT'S A LIFE OR NOT IS KIND OF PASSE. >> OH, YEAH, THAT'S THE REASON FOR SURE. ONCE YOU TRY TO MAKE IT A MATTER OF CHOICE, THOUGH, YOU HAVE BACKED YOURSELF INTO ANOTHER UNTENABLE ILLOGICAL CORNER. AND THE REASON FOR THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S CALLED THE HIERARCHY OF RIGHT, THE RIGHT TO LIFE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE HIGHER THAN THE RIGHT TO FREEDOM. THERE'S AN OLD ARGUMENT THAT'S CALLED THE NECESSITY ARGUMENT, OBJECTIVE NECESSITY ARGUMENT. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS UNDERSTOOD THIS. AND JOHN LOCKE UNDERSTOOD IT. AND PRIOR TO JOHN LOCKE, HUGO GROTIUS, FATHER OF INTERNATIONAL LAW. AND FATHER FRANCISCO SUÁREZ, HE'S THE ONE WHO DISCOVERED THE INALIENABLE RIGHT BELONGING TO EVERY HUMAN BEING NATURE. AND BASICALLY, THE ARGUMENT RUNS LIKE THIS. IF ONE RIGHT IS NECESSARY FOR THE VERY POSSIBILITY OF ANOTHER RIGHT, THEN THE ONE THAT'S NECESSARY FOR THE OTHER RIGHT TO EXIST, THAT ONE MUST BE HIGHER THAN THE DERIVATIVE RIGHT. SO, THE QUESTION IS, IF THE RIGHT TO LIFE IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY FOR THE VERY POSSIBILITY OF THE RIGHT TO LEARNING DISABILITY. AND OF COURSE, IT IS BECAUSE IF YOU ARE DEAD, YOUR LIBERTY RIGHTS ARE A MOOT QUESTION. OF COURSE, THE RIGHT TO LIFE HAS TO BE HIGHER THAN THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY THEREFORE TO SIT AND ELEVATE THE CHOICE OF A WOMAN, A LOWER RIGHT OVER THE HIGHER RIGHT OF THE RIGHT TO LIFE, OF THE INDISPUTABLE RIGHT TO LIFE OF THE FETUS BECAUSE NOBODY IS ARGUING THAT A REAL HUMAN BEING EXISTS AND THAT IF A REAL HUMAN BEING DESERVING OF PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A PERSON. EVERY HUMAN BEING SHOULD BE REGARDED AS A PERSON. AND YOU CAN SEE WHEN PERSONHOOD IS DIVORCED FROM THAT, HUMAN PERSONHOOD, THEN ALL KINDS OF MISCHIEF HAPPENS. FOR EXAMPLE, SLAVERY. WHEN THEY WANTED TO MAKE WAND HAD TO ENSLAVE THEM THEY HAD TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEY WERE HUMAN BEINGS. SO, OKAY. HOW ARE WE GOING TO NEGATE THIS. WE'RE GOING TO SAY WELL, THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS ALL RIGHT. BUT THEY ARE SUB HUMAN BEINGS OR ENOUGH EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY OR WHATEVER. WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF IT, AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF IT, WELL, THEY ARE NOT PERSONS. SO, THE MINUTE YOU TAKE THAT AWAY IN THE LAW, IT'S PROPERTY. THIS IS HOW THE WHOLE IDEA OF CHATTEL, THE IDEA OF, A SLAVE BEING PROPERTY CAME INTO THE LAW BECAUSE THEY NEEDED A DISTINCTION BETWEEN HUMAN BEING AND A PERSON DESERVING OF PROTECTION UPPED THE LAW. THIS HAS HAPPENED IN HUMAN NATURE SO MANY TIMES, I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, THIS IS THE MOST DANGEROUS THING IN THE WORLD. LOOK, HERE'S A HUMAN BEING INDISPUTABLY AND SCIENCE SHOWS IT JUST AS I DESCRIBED. SO THE REAL THING IS, DOES THAT HUMAN BEING HAVE INTRINSIC WORTH? OR ONLY EXTRINSIC WORTH AND IT'S A PERSON DESERVING AND CHATTEL PROPERTY, BEING A NON PERSON, NOT DESERVING PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW, A NON HUMAN BEING. AND IF YOU MAKE THE DISTINCTION THEN YOU HAVE TO SHIFT FROM THE INTRINSIC VALUE OF EVERY HUMAN BEING. AND WE SAY NO WE ONLY ACCEPT INTRINSIC VALUE OF HUMAN BEING. -- EXTRINSIC VALUE OF HUMAN BEING. YOU HAVE TO PROVE IT, NOT JUST COMING WITH BEING HUMAN, YOU NEED TO PROVE IT. CERTAIN ACADEMIC LEVEL, CERTAIN HEIGHT, CERTAIN ETHNICITY, CERTAIN STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. OR YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN STAGE OF WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU ARE DOING. AND SOME VALUE OF THE PERSON IN ORDER FOR PERSON HOOD TO ACCRUE. THE MINUTE YOU DO THAT, REMEMBER, YOU DON'T JUST OPEN THE GATES TO KILLING HUMAN BEINGS THAT DON'T HAVE EXTRINSIC VALUE, IN THE CASE OF SLAVERY, SAY, THE CERTAIN ETHNIC HUMAN BEINGS DISREGARDED OF BEING PERSONS, BECAUSE OF A LACK OF EXTRINSIC VALUE. NOW, YOU OPEN THE DOOR FOR EVERYTHING. IT OPENS THE POLITICAL PROCESS WHICH HUMAN BEINGS HAVE SUFFICIENT EXTRINSIC VALUE TO BE A PERSON OR NOT. THAT DOOR COMES OPEN. WHERE DO YOU SLAM THAT SHUT? THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THAT. THE ONLY WAY YOU MAINTAIN HUMANNESS THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING, EVERY UNDENIABLE HUMAN BEING WHICH A SINGLE-CELLED ZYGOTE MOST CERTAINLY IS, AS WE JUST NOTED. IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THEY HAVE INTRINSIC VALUE AND IF THEY HAVE INTRINSIC VALUE, THEN THEY HAVE AN INALIENABLE RIGHT AND RIGHT TO LIFE IS HIGHER THAN THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY, AND THE RIGHT TO LIBERTY IS HIGHER THAN THE RIGHT TO PROPERTY. AND THE POINT IN THE DRED SCOTT CASE, WE SEE THAT THE WHITE MAN'S PROPERTY RIGHTS WERE PUT AHEAD OF THE BLACK MAN'S LIBERTY RIGHTS. SO ASK YOURSELF, ISN'T THAT THE SAME THING AS PUTTING WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOICE, TO LIBERTY, ABOVE THE SINGLE-CELLED ZYGOTE OR THE PREBORN HUMAN BEING'S LIFE. OF COURSE, YOU ARE DOING THE VERY SAME ERROR. VIOLATING THE NECESSITY CRITERIA, VIOLATING THE OBJECTIVE ORDER AND THE MOMENT YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU ARE NOT JUST GOING TO DO IT FOR ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE NOW PREJUDICE AGAINST, YOU ARE GOING TO OPEN THE DOOR OF PREJUDICE WHO FALLS OUT OF FAVOR AND THEY SAY, SEE, THEY DON'T HAVE EXTRINSIC VALUATION AND THEREFORE, THIS PERSON IS A NON HUMAN BEING AND WE CAN DENY HIS RIGHTS TOO. WHY NOT? YOU HAVE OPENED THE PANDORA'S BOX AND YOU ARE GOING TO GET WHAT YOU DO, REAP WHAT YOU SEW. >> Doug: WITHOUT GOING TOO FAR AFIELD, LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION. IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE UNALIENABLE OR INALIENABLE RIGHTS, IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, HOW DO YOU HAVE RIGHTS INTRINSIC TO YOU IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A CREATOR. >> Father: WELL, THIS WAS A REAL DEBATE TOPIC DURING THE TIME OF SUAREZ, AND EVEN DURING THE TIME OF GROTIUS AND LOCK. AND LOCKE AND GROTIUS WERE BIG INFLUENCES OF THOMAS JEFFERSON WHO PUT IT INTO OUR DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE. KEY POINT, JEFFERSON SAYS USE BOTH, WE HOLD THE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT BY EVERY HUMAN BEING, ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL ENDOWED BY THE CREATOR WITH THE RIGHTS OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. SO, HE USES THEM BOTH. AND HE SAYS, IF THEY ARE RELIGIOUS I'M USING THE CREATOR ARGUMENT. AND HE WAS A DEITY, DEIST, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE A CREATOR ARGUMENT. PEOPLE SAY, IF HAVE YOU A HUMAN BEING, EVERY HUMAN BEING IS DESERVING OF MINIMUM JUSTICE. IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T, A HUMAN BEING IS A HUMAN BEING IS A HUMAN BEING AND JUSTICE IS JUSTICE AND YOU CAN'T ARBITRARILY DENY IT TO ANYONE. WHOLE UNIVERSALITY OF JUSTICE GOING BACK TO PLATO. AND THE KEY POINT OF THIS, WHAT'S MINIMUM JUSTICE. WHATEVER YOU NEED IN ORDER TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING, TO BE HUMAN IN YOUR LIFE, WHATEVER YOU NEED IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO DO THAT. THAT IS AN INALIENABLE ABLE RIGHT. LIFE IS NECESSARY FOR YOU TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING. FREEDOM IS NECESSARY, IN OTHER WORDS, NOT BEING ENSLAVED HAVING A DOMICILE IN YOUR OWN MIND, HEART, AND IN YOUR OWN HOUSE, DOMAIN FOR YOUR REELING ET CETERA. THAT'S NECESSARY FOR YOU TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING AND TO BE ABEL TO OWN PROPERTY TO KEEP YOU OUT OF INDENTURES SERVITUDE. THAT'S NEEDED FOR YOU IN ORDER TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING, TO BE HUMAN. THAT'S THE MINIMUM JUSTICE THAT EVERYBODY DOES TO EVERY ONE. SO, LET'S TAKE THE SO-CALLED RIGHT OF ABORTION. CERTAINLY THE RIGHT OF ABORTION COULD NEVER BE AN INALIENABLE RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN ABORTION IN ORDER TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING AND TO BE HUMAN. SO, THE SAME THING WITH SLAVERY. YOU CAN NEVER SAY SLAVERY WAS AN INALIENABLE RIGHT OF WHITE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF COURSE, YOU DON'T NEED TO OWN SLAVES IN ORDER TO BE HUMAN. SAME THINK WITH A SMART PHONE. SMART PHONES CAN'T BE AN INALIENABLE RIGHT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ONE IN ORDER TO BE HUMAN TO ACT LIKE A HUMAN BEING. >> APPARENTLY, YOU DON'T HAVE A 12-YEAR-OLD KID THERE! THEY THINK IT'S AN INALIENABLE RIGHT. OKAY. I WENT TOO FAR AFIELD ON THAT. HERE'S ANOTHER STORY THAT I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING. INTERESTING, EWTN PROUDLY PRESENTED THE INTERNATIONAL EUCHARISTIC CONGRESS FROM HUNGARY, OUR TEAM WAS THERE THE WHOLE WEEK. THERE WAS A TALK, WE FEATURED A LOT OF TALKS AND THERE WAS A TALK BY A FORMER FEMALE PROTESTANT, BARBARA KYLE, BUT THEY ASKED HER IN THE INTERVIEW THAT WAS DONE IN THE REGISTER, THEY SAID, DO YOU THINK THAT THE CHURCH SHOULD DO MORE TO ADDRESS THE GROWING LOSS. AND SHE SAID DEFINITELY, WHEN I BECAME CATHOLIC IN 2013, I WAS SURROUNDED IN PARIS THAT NEW LESS ABOUT THEIR FAITH THAN I DID. THEY DIDN'T KNOW AND THEY WERE POORLY CATECHIZED. AND PROPHET HOSEA SAID, PEOPLE PERISH FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. AND SHE SAID IT'S LIKE SITTING IN THE CORNER JUST EATING THE CRUMBS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS QUITE INTERESTING. >> AND THAT'S WHY THE CATHOLIC COUNCIL OF BISHOPS HAS ALREADY INITIATED RECATECHIZING OF THE EUCHARISTIC WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. THEY ARE AIMING IT AT ADULTS AS WELL AS CHILDREN. AND DOING IT ON A MULTIPLICITY OF LEVELS AND BRINGING TOGETHER ALL KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS, EWTN IS PART OF THE INITIATIVE AND MAGIS CENTER WAS INVITED. AND VARIETY OF OTHER PEOPLE. SO, THEY ARE TRYING TO DO A FULL COURT PRESS HERE. WHEN THEY SAW THE PEW SURVEY THEY WERE SHOCKED. EVERYBODY WAS PRETTY MUCH SHOCKED. AND PEOPLE SAY, IT'S AN EXAGGERATION. WELL, EVEN IF ITS HALF TRUE, IT'S SHOCKING! SO, WHAT ARE WE TALKING, WE'RE GOING TO ARGUE THAT ONLY 1/3 OF THE POPULATION BELIEVES IN THE BEST THING JESUS EVER GAVE US? TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE CATECHESIS AND WE NEED TO GET BACK ON THAT. THIS CONVERT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I THINK THE PROLIFERATION OF THE SCIENTIFIC VALIDATED MIRACLES, I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE REALLY INTERESTING IN RECATECHIZING. CARLO ACUTIS, CERTAINLY THAT WAS A PINPOINT OF HIS CONVERSION I THINK THE MIRACLES, WHY NOT BRING THEM OUT THERE, THE SCIENTIFIC DATA IS GROWING WITH CERTAINLY THE BUENOS AIRES MIRACLE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE MAYBE A LITTLE MORE THOROUGHLY BUT THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE WITH RESPECT TO THE WHITE BLOOD CELLS IS ENORMOUSLY PERSUASIVE. I THINK THAT WE CAN DEFINITELY LEVERAGE THOSE. AND THE OTHER THINGS IMPORTANT, THOUGH, JOHN 6. IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE THAT CATECHESIS, JOHN 6:30-54, WHATEVER IT IS, AND LOOK AT IT, TAKING THE TEXT, HOW CAN ANYBODY READ THE TEXT AND NOT COME OUT SAYING, WELL, JESUS IS REALLY PRESENT IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST. NO ONE CAN CERTAINLY, THE BREAD THAT I SHALL GIVE IS MY FLESH FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD. HOW ELSE DO YOU INTERPRETER THIS AND BY THE WAY THAT'S REPEATED AND REPEATED AND REPEATED IN THE PASSAGE. I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR. AND I THINK WE HAVE DONE A LOT OF GOOD SOLID EXEGESIS OF THE EUCHARISTIC TEXT. THEY ARE WAITING TO BE ASSIGNED, AND NOT ONLY THE REAL FLESH AND BLOOD OF JESUS, BUT YOU ARE LOOKING AT TRULY THE RISEN GLORIFIED BODY AND SOUL AND DIVINITY OF JESUS CHRIST THAT YOU CAN TAKE INTO YOU. AND THE MAIN THING THAT I THINK WITH YOUNGER PEOPLE, IT GIVES THEM PROBLEMS, MAIN THING THEY SAY, GOSH, I DON'T FEEL ANYTHING. I GO TO THE HOLY EUCHARIST. YOU KNOW, FEELINGS, AGAIN, WE NEED TO CATECHIZE THE YOUNG PEOPLE WITH SPIRITUALITY. THEY DON'T KNOW. FEELINGS ARE NOT -- WELL, IN FACT, ADULTS DON'T KNOW. FEELINGS ARE NOT THE PRIMARY INDICATION OF WHETHER OR NOT GRACE IS COURSING THROUGH MY VEINS. 95% OF THE FRUIT OF GRACE HAPPENS OUTSIDE OF PRAYER! IT HAPPENS SUBTLETY. AND EVERY TIME WE RECEIVE COMMUNION, JESUS COULD GIVE US A THUNDER BOTH, I AM NOW PRESENT IN YOUR BEING! BUT HE ASKS US, BECAUSE WE ARE FREE, WE ASK HIM IN FAITH TO TRANSFORM OUR HEARTS. WE ASK HIM IN FAITH TO FORGIVE OUR VENIAL SINS AND ASK HIM IN FAITH TO BRING ABOUT A CONVERSION IN OUR LIFE AND INTEGRATE US EVER MORE DEEPLY IN HIS MYSTICAL LIFE SO HIS SPIRIT COURSES THROUGH OUR VEINS. NOW, DEFINITELY THIS IS THE REAL PRESENCE OF JESUS, I'VE BEEN TRANSFORMED UTTERLY BECAUSE OF IT. I'VE TOLD THE STORY MAN I.Q. TIMES ON THE PROGRAM. THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND THAT IF WE ASK FOR THE GRACES, WE'RE GOING TO BE GIVEN. AND I GOT THE GRACES OFTENTIMES WITHOUT ASKING FOR THEM. I KNEW WHEN I WAS GOING TO DAILY MASS, KNEW WHEN I WAS RECEIVING, I KNEW THAT SOMETHING WAS HAPPENING TO ME. BUT EVERYBODY ELSE SAW THE CHANGES WAY BEFORE I DID. NOW I THINK YOU SAID SO MANY OF US WANT TO BE ZAPPED, THAT BIG FEELING OF A CHANGE. AND IT'S A RESERVOIR BUILT UP IN YOU, SLOWLY AND SURELY THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR YOU TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES IN YOUR LIFE AND THE PROBLEMS IN YOUR LIFE AND TO BE ABLE TO RESIST THOSE TEMPTATIONS WHICH YOU PROBABLY WOULD HAVE FALLEN INTO IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT RESERVOIR. >> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY THE TRUTH. PEOPLE WHO GO TO DAILY MASS, YOU CAN SEE SOMETHING GOING ON WITH THEM, TRANSFORMATION, A SUBTLE POWER AND WHEN TEMPTATIONS COME DOWN, OF COURSE, THEIR IMAGINATION IS ENGAGED THE SAME WAY IT WAS BEFORE THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY EUCHARIST FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. BUT THE ENGAGEMENT OF THE IMAGINATION IS ONLY STEP ONE OF THE DEVIL'S PLAN. NORMALLY, THE PERSON WHO HAS RECEIVED HOLY EUCHARIST HAS THE RESERVOIR IN THEM. THEY ARE STILL FREE AND WHEN THEY CALL UPON THAT, CALLING UPON THE NAME OF JESUS, THEY ASK THE LORD FOR THE POWER TO RESIST THAT TEMPTATION, BOY, THAT POWER IS THERE, THE SENSE OF THE LOVE OF CHRIST IS THERE. THAT SENSE OF WANTING HIM ALONE AND NOT WHATEVER IT IS THAT THIS TEMPTATION IS OFFERING. IT OVERPOWERS IT. AND THERE'S SOMETHING THERE. BUT YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE IT. AND YOU SAY, OKAY. HERE'S THIS ENGAGEMENT OF MY IMAGINATION. WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH THIS. AND I CAN JUST SAY, I REJECT IT, BECAUSE I LOVE YOU, MY LORD, HELP ME TO STAY ON TRACK WITH YOU, WHOM I LOVE I WANT TO BE DIFFERENT, REJECT IT AND SIMPLY TO BLOW IT AWAY. AND THE IDEA IS, THAT POWER DOES BECOME EVER MORE PRESENT IN YOUR LIFE, MUCH EASIER TO DO THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEARS RECEIVING THE HOLY EUCHARIST. AND OF COURSE, IT HELPS TO HAVE A PRAYER LIFE THAT ACCOMPANIES THE EUCHARIST AS WELL. NOW, THE NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD TO THE INSIGHTFUL CONVERSATIONS AND INSIGHTS BETWEEN YOU AND DOUG. MY BELIEF IS THAT WHEN ONE REJECTS GOD, THEIR INTELLECT BECOMES INCREASINGLY DARKENED, AS OUTLINED IN ROMANS 1. THIS SEEMS TO EXPLAIN THE INSANITY BEING LIVED OUT IN REAL TIME TODAY. DO YOU AGREE AND COULD THIS BE WHY SATAN FEELS HE HAS A CHANCE AT OPPOSING GOD? I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHY SATAN THINKS HE HAS A CHANCE AT SUCCESS IN HIS REBELLION. DAVE. >> Father: OKAY. YEAH, DAVE, I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THIS IS IN FACT, YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MARKER, I THINK THAT'S A PROPER INTERPRETATION OF THINGS. AS I ALWAYS SAID, IF YOU START LOOKING AT THE STATISTICS OF THE CHURCH'S MORAL TEACHING WHICH I TALKED ABOUT ON A FEW OCCASIONS, YOU CAN SEE THAT EVERYTHING THAT THE CHURCH TEACHES GOOD FOR EMOTIONAL AND SPIRITUAL HEALTH AND OF COURSE, GOOD FOR SALVATION. SO, THE POINT IS, HOW CAN PEOPLE MISS IT? HOW DO PEOPLE SAY, OH, I HAVE A SEX CHANGE AND NOW I'M HAPPY. AND FIVE YEARS LATER, THEY HAVE 19 TIMES INCREASE IN SUICIDES? HOW CAN THIS HAPPEN? BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE IGNORING WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY A HUGE PROBLEM, THE SO-CALLED ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. NOW, IF YOU ARE BUSY IGNORING ALL THE ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM, YOU GOT TO ASK YOURSELF GETTING ALL OF THE DATA ACCOUNTED FOR. AND IF YOU ARE IGNORING ALL OF THE ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM, AND ABOUT A HUNDRED OF THEM BEING IGNORED BY THE CULTURE, THEN IF THAT'S THE KAY, THEN THIS HAS TO BE A DARKENING OF THE INTELLECT AND YOU HAVE TO SEE THE TAIL SLITHERING AWAY. WELL, MAYBE NOT SLITHERING AWAY BUT APPROACHING AS THE CULTURE ALMOST JUST MINDLESSLY CONTINUES IN A FORM OF DECADENCE, SKYROCKETING HOMICIDES, SUICIDES, AND DEPRESSION, ANXIETY AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE AND SOCIAL ILLS. MARRIAGES CUT IN HALF, DIVORCE RATES UP BY A FACTOR OF THREE TIMES SINCE 1960. AND NOW WE HAVE TRIPLE THE NUMBER OF DIVORCES THAT WE HAVE HAD. AND WE KNOW JUST LOOK AT THE GREAT SEXUAL LIBERATION WHAT IT HAS DONE. FORCIBLE RAPES ARE UP 5.8 TIMES SINCE 1960. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THE SOCIETY IS GOING WHACKO. THEY HAVE CRIMINAL DEPARTMENTS FOCUSED JUST ON SEXUAL CRIMES. YEAH, EVERYTHING IS GREAT WITH MARRIAGE. FAMILY IS STABILIZE THE. NO CHILDREN OF DIVORCE THAT WE WORRY ABOUT. EVERYTHING IS JUST PEACHY. WELL, IT'S NOT PEACHY! THE ELEPHANTS ARE EVERYWHERE. SORRY, DAVE, I GOT TO TELL YOU, IT'S PRETTY BAD OUT THERE. YEAH, YOU TRAMPLED THE CULTURE AND BEING SCRUPULOUS OUT THERE, YOU HAVE TO LIGHTEN UP A LITTLE BIT. WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK. MUCH MORE AHEAD WITH FATHER SPITZER RIGHT AFTER THIS. (MUSIC) (MUSIC) >> THANK YOU STAYING WITH US FOR PART 2. TALKING ABOUT THE BEELZEBUB CONTROVERSY FROM YOUR BOOK AND ALSO SOME OF YOUR LETTERS WHICH WE WILL PICK UP NOW. "I HAVE TWO SETS OF GEODES THAT I USE IN MY HOME AS ROCK. AND I'VE BEEN TOLD THEY ARE CONSIDERED AS CRYSTALS AND I HAVE NO INTENTION OF USING THEM THEM FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN BOOKENDS, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO GO AGAINST MY PRECIOUS CATHOLIC FAITH NOR DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE EVIL. VERONICA." >> Father: NOW, VERONICA, I WOULDN'T ACCORD ROCK BOOK ENDS ANY INTRINSIC EVIL POWER. IF SOMEBODY SAID THEY WERE CURSED MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN'T WANT IN YOUR HOUSE. BUT I MEAN, IF YOU DON'T VIEW CRYSTALS AS HAVING INTRINSIC POWER, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH HAVING BOOK ENDS WHERE PEOPLE SAY, OH, THIS HAS INTRINSIC POWER. BUT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IT, I DON'T SEE THE HARM IN HAVING THEM TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. SO, I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT IT. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY CURSED THEM GOING ON, I MEAN, THEY ARE A HAUNTING DIMENSION OF YOUR HOUSE, I WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT IT AT ALL. THAT'S MY VIEW. >> Doug: AND I WAS THINKING THAT CATECHIZED, YOU CAN DEAL WITH IT, NOT THAT YOU ARE DABBLING IN ANY WAY WITH ANYTHING. IT'S A BOOK END. OKAY. SHOULD WE EAT MEAT TO SACRIFICE TO IDOLS, ST. PAUL. HE SAYS, I DON'T THINK IT MEANS A HOOT. BUT IF I AM AROUND SOMEBODY THAT CARES, AND I'M SCANDALIZING SOMEBODY BY EATING THAT, I WOULDN'T DO THAT AT ALL. SO, IT'S THE OLE PRUDENCE OF ST. PAUL. BUT IF YOU DON'T ACCORD IT ANY POWER, WHY DO YOU WORRY. >> LIKE YOU SAID, NOTHING INTRINSIC TO IT. OKAY. NEXT QUESTION. DEAR FATHER SPITZER, I WORRY ABOUT MY DAUGHTER. SOMEHOW, SHE GOT INVOLVED IN CHANNELING. HER SON, MY GRANDSON, STARTED CHANNELING SOME TIME AGO. HE HAD A BREAKDOWN AND I TRIED TO TELL MY DAUGHTER THAT PERHAPS A DEMON IS TRYING TO TAKE HIM OVER. WHAT CAN I DO? I PRAY FOR BOTH OF THEM BUT I'M NOT GETTING ANYWHERE WITH HER RIGHT NOW. CAN YOU HELP ME WITH ANY INSIGHT? MARIE >> Father: MARIE, CHANNELING IS A USE OF A SPIRIT THAT GOD DID NOT INTEND US TO DO. WE'RE NOT TO BE CHALLENGE SPIRITS, NOT TO BE CHANNELING THE DEAD BECAUSE THOSE SPIRITS CAN BE EVIL. IT'S LIKE ROBBY MANHEIM, THE EXORCISM CASE AND BECAME THE DIARY. >> AND THAT WAS CAPTAIN HOWIE THROUGH THE OUIJA BOARD. >> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT THE KEY POINT IS, YOU TAKE OUT THAT OUIJA BOARD AND THE PLANCHETTE MOVES AROUND BOARD TO CONVINCE YOU A SPIRIT IS PRESENT EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE NOT MOVING IT. AND YOU SEE THIS AND YOU SAY, OH, WELL, WHO ARE YOU. AND IT SPELLS OUT CAPTAIN HOWIE OR WHATEVER IT IS. AND IN THIS CASE, ROBBY, I'M YOUR AUNT BUT IT WAS NOT CAPTAIN HOWIE OR HIS AUNT. IT WAS BASICALLY AN EVIL SPIRIT. SO, YOU START CHANNELING THESE THINGS AND I'M TELLING YOU, YOU ARE REALLY CHANNELING EVIL. I'M NOT GOING TO -- WELL, MAYBE I WILL TOUT MY BOOK, IF YOU WANT TO GET THAT BOOK, CHRIST VERSUS SATAN IN OUR DAILY LIVES, PULL OUT CHAPTER 3. TELL HER HERE'S WHAT YOU ARE COURTING WITH WHEN YOU JUST LOOK AT THE EXORCISM OF THAT. LOOK AT JULIA, THE HIGH PRIESTESS. YOU ARE COURTING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. YOU INVITE A SPIRIT INTO YOU. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU COULD BE INVITING EVIL HIMSELF, BEELZEBUB HIMSELF RIGHT SO, MY ONE THOUGHT IS, TRY TO IMPRESS UPON HER THE DANGER SHE IS DOING AND WHAT DOES THE DEVIL ALWAYS DO? LIE LIE LIE, AS JESUS SAYS. A LIAR FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND A MURDER TOO. DEAR FATHER SPITZER WHAT'S -- THE NEXT QUESTION LET'S GET TO THAT. DEAR FR. SPITZER, WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MATERIALISM, CONSUMERISM AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A SPIRITUAL LIFE? THEY SEEM CONTRADICTORY. WHAT LEVEL OF CONSUMPTION IS APPROPRIATE? COULD CONSUMERISM BE THE MOTIVATING FORCE BEHIND ABORTION? HARRIS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CONSUMERISM AND ABORTION, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT CAPITALISM PER SE. >> Father: WELL, CONSUMERISM HAS TWO MEANINGS. ONTOLOGICAL, MATERIALIST A PERSON WHO TRIES TO REDUCE EVERYTHING TO THE WORLD. THERE'S ONLY MATTER AND NO SUCH THING AS ANYTHING ELSE. KARL MARX WAS A MATERIALIST. HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN A SPIRITUAL WORLD AT ALL. THEN THERE'S AN ETHICAL MEANING OF MATERIALISM, A PERSON WHO IS OBSESSED WITH MATERIAL THINGS. AND THINKS THAT HE CAN DEFINE THE MEANING OF HIS LIFE IN TERMS OF GETTING MATERIAL THINGS. SO, IN MY LEVEL THAT'S A LEVEL ONE PERSON, A PERSON WHO BASICALLY SAYS I SETTLE ON MATERIAL STUFF. THE ACCUMULATION OF MATERIAL STUFF. AND ACCUMULATION OF PLEASURES PER SECOND. THAT'S GOING TO BE THE MEANING OF MY LIFE PURPOSE OF MY LIFE, BLOCKS OUT SPIRITUALITY ANY MEANINGFUL PRACTICE OF RELIGION. AND YOU DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL DESTINY. YOU DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL NATURE BY YOUR VERY NATURE. AND IF YOU DON'T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A GOOD PERSON OBSESSED WITH MATERIAL WELL BEING, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY. WELL, YOU DO HAVE TO WORRY BUT THE SPIRITUAL LIFE IS COMPLETELY OUT OF THE QUESTION BECAUSE THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. IT'S THE OBSESSION YOU CAN OWN A NICE CAR OR A NICE HOUSE. BUT THE MAIN THING, SUBORDINATE MATERIAL THINGS TO DIVINE THINGS, TO RELIGIOUS THINGS, TO WORLD THINGS, TO ETHICAL THINGS AND TO OTHER PEOPLES' CONCERNS. YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE MATERIAL THINGS THE HIGHEST PRIORITY IN YOUR LIFE. THE CONSUMERISM, THAT SOMETIMES MEANS BEING, YOU KNOW, LOOKING OUT FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE CONSUMER, LIKE A MEANING THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY REAL ETHICAL VALUE AT ALL. BUT IF YOU MEAN BY CONSUMERISM, OBSESSES THAT RULES OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A SPIRITUAL LIFE. >> AND CONSUMERISM, PEOPLE FILL IT IN THAT ACQUIRING OR BUYING THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO SAY THEIR NEED ULTIMATELY FOR GOD. >> ABSOLUTELY. BUT THEY DON'T EVEN THINK THAT WAY. THAT'S A FEELING. THEY FEEL DEEP EMPTINESS IN THE BEING AND FEEL DEEP ALIENATION WITH THE TOTALITY. AND THEY TRY TO ASSUAGE THIS UNFULFILLED NEED, YEARNING IN THEIR BEING FOR GOD WHICH THEY ARE IGNORING, THIS EMPTINESS, ALIENATION AND LONELINESS. SO WHAT DO THEY DO? THEY GO ON A BUYING SPREE. YES, IT HAS A GREAT EFFECT FOR A LITTLE WHILE UNTIL YOU GET HOME. AND YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU SAY, I DON'T REALLY NEED THIS ANY WAY. WHERE AM I GOING TO STORE IT. AND FINALLY, YOU THINK, OH, WHAT'S MY CREDIT CARD BILL RIGHT NOW. OH, BOY, THIS LOOKS PRETTY BAD. I OWING A LOT OF MONEY BUT IT DOESN'T LAST LONG BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T REPLACE THE LAVISH LOVE OF GOD IN OUR LIVES. OF COURSE, YOU ARE ALWAYS EMPTY AND A MILLION BUYING SPREES DON'T GET YOU OVER IT. A MILLION ALCOHOL SPREES DON'T GET YOU OVER IT. NOTHING LEVEL ONE OR TWO GETS YOU OVER IT. IT JUST WON'T WORK. YEAH, IT'S A REAL DEADENED STREET. >> IT'S INTERESTING THAT I SEE SO MANY BUILDINGS GO UP THAT ARE BASICALLY STORAGE FACILITIES. IT'S FACILITIES FOR PEOPLE TO STORE STUFF. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE EQUATION HERE. OKAY. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REALITY OF DIVINE GOODNESS AND SPIRITUAL EVIL. HERE, IN THIS SECTION ON PAGE 109 AT THE BOTTOM, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE WHOLE IDEA COMING OUT OF THE EXORCISM, BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT. WHAT'S THAT MEAN AND WHAT'S OUR LORD MEAN, THIS IS THE SIN OR WHAT'S THE SIN THAT CAN'T BE FORGIVING. THIS IS A SPECIAL KIND OF SIN AND THE IDEA OF BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT IS TO CALL THE HOLY SPIRIT EVIL. AND YOU SAY, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS AN EVIL SPIRIT AND YOU MEAN THAT, YOU MEAN THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD INTEND EVIL OR EVEN WOULD BE LIKE THE EVIL SPIRIT. WHAT YOU ARE DOING, YOU ARE CUTTING OFF YOUR OWN NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE. YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE VERY INSTRUMENT OF YOUR HEALING, THE VERY INSTRUMENT OF YOUR FORGIVENESS THAT'S GUIDING YOU, PROTECTING YOU AND INSPIRING YOU, THAT BEING, THE HEART OF GOD BEATING WITHIN YOU, YOU ARE SAYING IT'S THE HEART OF THE DEVIL, THAT'S THE ULTIMATE REJECTION OF LIFE, THE ULTIMATE REJECTION OF GOD'S GIFT OF LOVE. AND IF YOU DID THAT KNOWINGLY, JESUS SAYS, YOU JUST CUT OFF THE VERY CONDITION OF BRINGING YOURSELF BACK ON THE ROAD. JUST CUT OFF THE VERY POSSIBILITY OF FORGIVING LOVE IN YOUR LIFE. YOU JUST CALLED THE MEANS THROUGH WHICH FORGIVENESS IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE. YOU JUST SAID THAT IT IS NOTHING BUT EVIL. AND OF COURSE, IF YOU DO THAT, REALLY MEANINGFULLY THINKING, THAT IT WERE AS IT IS TRUE, THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO IS LIFE JESUS SAYS YOU CAN YOU TELL OFF LIFE FROM YOUR VERY SELF. IT'S LIKE CUTTING OFF YOUR ENTIRE ROAD BACK TO LIGHT AND SANITY. AND THAT'S, LIKE, AN UNFORGIVABLE SIN. >> RIGHT, PERHAPS BEST THAT JESUS VIEWS THE SIN WORST BECAUSE ONE DECLARES THAT SATAN IS HIS GOD OR GOD THE CREATOR AND THE REDEEMER IS SATAN. WELL, ENOUGH SAID. THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL CHOICE AND MISTAKE. IF YOU MAKE THAT MISTAKE, WHY ARE YOU GOING FROM HERE. THAT'S WHAT JESUS BASICALLY IS SAYING. >> OKAY. AS WE MOVE INTO SECTION B ON 110. WE HAVE A QUOTE FROM LUKE. I SAW SATAN FALL LIKE LIGHTNING AND YOU SAID ON 111, THOUGH SOME SCHOLARS SAY IT REFERS TO SATAN'S INITIAL FALL FROM HEAVEN, FROM THE SIN OF ORIGINAL SIN. BUT MOST SAY IT'S AFTER HE DEFEATED SATAN IN THE DESERT. IT WAS INTERESTING. >> IT'S HARD TO SAY. WHO CAN SAY? YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GIVING WHAT THE SCHOLAR SHIP IS SAYING HERE AND SEEMS LIKE TO ME, SOMETHING HAPPENED AFTER THE DEFEAT FROM HIM, EXPRESSION FALLING FROM HEAVEN, HE'S HAD IT. HE'S DEFEATED, HE'S GONE. NOW, CERTAINLY THAT'S A POSSIBILITY AND A LOT OF SCHOLARS DO BELIEVE IT. HOWEVER, IT'S A POSSIBILITY, TOO, THAT JESUS REFERRING TO HIS OWN DIVINE PRESCIENCE SAW SATAN LITERALLY FALL LIKE LIGHTNING FROM HEAVEN. OF COURSE OF COURSE, WE DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE NO WAY OF JUDGING THE CONTEXT OF IT. AND I POINT OUT THE SCHOLARLY VIEWPOINTS. WE'RE PERFECTLY FREE TO BELIEVE THAT EITHER ONE, JESUS CERTAINLY SAW SATAN FALL LIKE LIGHTNING FROM HEAVEN. NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. AND HAVING SEEN THAT HAPPEN, WHO MADE HIM FALL? WELL, JESUS. JESUS MADE HIM FALL. PEOPLE SAY IT'S ST. MICHAEL, IN THE PREVIOUS EXISTENCE BUT REALLY, IT WAS THE SON OF GOD, JESUS COME INTO OUR MIDST, WHO HAD THE ULTIMATE DEFEAT OF SATAN AND THAT'S WHAT MOST SCHOLARS THINK. IF YOU WANT TO ATTRIBUTE THE FALL FROM HEAVEN WITH SATAN TO ST. MICHAEL, OKAY. BUT JESUS IS THE PRIMARY CAUSE FOR THE DEFEAT AND FALL FROM HEAVEN. AND THAT'S WHY SCHOLARS GENERALLY SAY THAT. >> YOU WENT ON TO SAY, [READING FROM BOOK] HE SHARED HIS AUTHORITY WITH HIS DISCIPLES, WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND? >> Father: YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT JESUS IS DOING EVER AND ALWAYS, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY IS FORMING A CHURCH. SO, JESUS DIDN'T FORM THE CHURCH JUST BEFORE THE CRUCIFIX BY GIVING PETER HIS CESAREA PHILLIPPI COMMISSION. SO IN MATTHEW 16: 17-19, WE SEE THAT JESUS IS FORMING THE CHURCH FROM THE VERY INCEPTION. SO, THE FIR THING HE IS DOING, GIVING HIS APOSTLES, THE POWER TO HEAL AND THEN HIS APOSTLE THE POWER TO EXORCISE DEMONS BECAUSE JESUS KNOWS THIS MINISTRY HAS TO GO FORWARD AND IT'S GOING FORWARD THROUGH THE CHURCH. BUT THEN WE SEE HE GIVES THE VERY SAME POWER TO THE EXPANDED GROUP AND FORMING A LAYERED CHURCH AND THE APOSTLES, THE BIG FOUNDATION STONE AND THE 72, THIS IS THE NEXT GROUP WHO ARE KIND OF THE CHOSEN, WHO HAVE THE NEXT SET OF POWERS WE SEE LATER ON, ALL KINDS OF HELPERS NOT BEING SENT OUT NOT GETTING THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE SAME WAY BUT DOING OTHER KINDS OF THINGS WITHIN THE CHURCH AS WELL AND FINALLY BAPTISM BECOMES THE MEANS OF GETTING THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO OUR LIVES WITH THE VARIOUS CHARISMS. THEN, JESUS SAYS, HE'S MOVING, HAS THIS LAYER OF CHURCH THAT HE'S ALREADY FOUNDING AND WHAT DOES HE THEN DO. HE BEGINS TO SAY, OKAY. GOING TO HE'S THE FOUNDATION STONE, THE ROCK AND HE GIVES IT TO THE APOSTLES, MATTHEW 18, AS OPPOSED TO PETER'S COMMISSIONING IN MATTHEW 17. THEN IN THE 72, THEY DON'T GET THOSE SPECIFIC LEADERSHIP POWERS IN THE SAME WAY AS THE PETER AND THE APOSTLES. SO, HE'S ALREADY, PEOPLE SAY, OH, HIERARCH CALL CHURCH. THAT WAS THE PRODUCT OF THE SUBSEQUENT CHURCH AFTER THE TIME OF JESUS. NO IT DOESN'T! JESUS WAS CREATING A HIERARCH AL CHURCH FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. DISCRIMINATING IN THE LEADERSHIP POWERS, NAMED PETER, AND THOSE FROM THE OTHER APOSTLES, AND THOSE FROM THE APOSTLES, FROM THE 72 AND ALL OF THE MISSIONARY DISCIPLES, ET CETERA. OF COURSE, EVERYBODY GETS THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. RIGHT? IN BAPTISM AND THE BAPTISM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT WE SEE AT PENTECOST AND ALL OF THAT, OF COURSE, IS DONE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE LEADERSHIP HIERARCHY THAT JESUS ESTABLISHED. SO, HE WANTS TO BE SURE THAT THIS POWER TO EXERCISE IT'S GOING TO BE PERPETUATED SO HIS MISSION, HIS PROLIFIC MINISTRY OF EXORCISM IS GOING TO CONTINUE ON FOREVER. >> AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A HIERARCHY OF TRUTHS, OTHERWISE, YOU HAVE A VOTE ON WHAT PEOPLE BELIEVE IS RIGHT OR WRONG AND THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE THE WAY IT WORKS. I THINK WE'VE SEEN IN MANY, MANY CHURCHES AND KIND OF THE SPIRIT OF THE AGE, DETERMINATION WHAT'S RIGHT OR WRONG NOW. OH, YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. I MEAN, FIRST THING THAT HAPPENED, THE FINAL OF RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY TO DECLARE THAT BY ROUSSEAU AND VOLTAIRE AND ENLIGHTENMENT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. AND THESE THINGS, ONCE REELING WAS DENIED, THEN OF COURSE FRAUD AND MARX TOOK OVER FROM THERE SAYING BASICALLY, CONSCIOUS IS NOT THE VOICE OF GOD SPEAKING WITHIN US. THIS IS ACTIVELY BEING DISPUTED BY EMMANUEL KANT, BUT HE SAYS, NO, NO, I'M NOT GOING THERE. CONSCIOUS IS THE VOICE OF GOD TO ME. OF COURSE, NEWMAN WHO IS A CATHOLIC, A CONVERT, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, HE CERTAINLY HAS MADE THE BEST DEFENSE EVER OF CONSCIOUS IS THE VOICE OF GOD. I HAVE IT IN MY NEW BOOK, THE NEW PROOFS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEFENSE OF CONSCIOUS. AND ETHIC THAT NEWMAN CHOSE THE BATTLEGROUND WELL. IF YOU ELIMINATE RELIGIOUS, AMORAL GUIDANCE FROM RELIGION AND ELIMINATE AMORAL GUIDANCE FROM CONSCIENCE, IT'S JUST CONDITIONS. AND HE SAYS, OH, THIS COMES FROM YOUR PARENTS, TEACHERS, RELIGIOUS AUTHORITIES, CHILDHOOD. AND NO, NO, NO NO THEY SAY. BUT OF COURSE ALL OF THESE THINGS, FREUD DOES NOT EXPLAIN IN THE LEAST, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS PRODUCES A SENSE OF DREAD WITHIN A PERSON, A SENSE OF SEPARATION FROM GOD, A SENSE OF GUILT THAT GOES RIGHT DOWN TO THE ALIENATION OF OUR BEING, ET CETERA. AND THE VIOLATION OF CONSCIOUS IS SO DEEP AND SO MUCH OF LITERATURE IS DEVOTED TO THIS, NOT JUST CRIME AND PUNISHMENT, SHAKESPEARE IS SO BRILLIANT AT THE EXPOSITION OF CONSCIENCE AND REALLY IMPORTANT WORKS THAT ARE, I MEAN, EDGAR ALLEN POE, TELLTALE HEART AND VARIETY OF OTHER IMPORTANT WORKS AND FRANZ KAFKA, NO QUESTION OF THAT, BUT ANYWAY, THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS, THIS CONSCIOUS, IF YOU SAY THAT THIS IS JUST A MATTER OF CONDITIONING, WOULD YOU MIND TELLING ME, HOW YOUR PARENTS, WHAT KIND OF FEAR, WHAT KIND OF TOOL DID THEY USE TO INSTIGATE LITERALLY DREAD EMERGING FROM THIS, A SHAME SO PROFOUND THAT IT ALIENATES ME FROM MYSELF, SENDS ME FROM A DOSTOYEVSKY TYPE FIGURE AND FROM THE EDGE OF WANTING TO BE PUNISHED FROM EXTERNAL AUTHORITIES BECAUSE I CAN NOT PUNISH MYSELF AS I DESERVE. SO, IN NO WAY DOES THE FREUDIAN EXPLANATION HOLD ANY WATER. I WOULD LISTEN TO SHAKESPEARE AND LISTEN TO DOSTOYEVSKY AND THIS IS SOMETHING FROM GOD, IT'S GOD'S VOICE. AND KANT'S ARGUMENT IS GOOD BUT NEWMAN'S ARGUMENT IS BRILLIANT AND I PUT IT IN A FOUR-STEP ARGUMENT IN MY BOOK, THE SOUL'S UPWARD YEARNING. >> Doug: AND WE'RE OUT OF TIME. IF YOU WOULD, FATHER, GIVE US YOUR BLESSING ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR. >> Father: CERTAINLY. BOW YOUR HEADS AND PRAY FOR GOD'S BLESSING. MAY THE LORD, WHO IS WISDOM ITSELF, WHO IS THE VOICE OF OUR CONSCIOUS, WHO IS THE DEFEAT OF DARKNESS, WHO IS OUR PROTECTION AGAINST EVIL, WHO IS THE LIGHT FOR OUR ETERNITY THAT STANDS AT THE END AND OBJECTIVE OF OUR LIFE. BLESS YOU WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT AND SEND IT UPON YOU TO GUIDE YOU IN HIS WISDOM, IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. >> Doug: AMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FATHER SPITZER. ALWAYS A PLEASURE. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AND HOPE TO SEE YOU AS WELL. DON'T FORGET ABOUT FATHER SPITZER BOOKS, VIDEOS AND AVAILABLE THROUGH THE EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG. NEXT WEEK, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT. INTERESTING TOPIC AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEVIL. EWTN'S BOOK MARK, WHAT CHRIST SUFFERED A DOCTOR'S JOURNEY THROUGH THE PASSION, BY DOCTOR THOMAS McGOVERN, INTERESTING AND LOOK FOR THAT. WE HAVE THE MASS ON THE SOLEMNITY OF OUR LADY, IN WALSINGHAM ENGLAND GOING TO BE RIGHT HERE ON EWTN. ALL THINGS CATHOLIC. LOOK RIGHT HERE NEXT TIME AT THE INTERSECTION OF FAITH AND REASON. WE'LL SEE YOU THEN. (MUSIC)
