Father Spitzer’s Universe - 2018-06-20 - Evolution, The Bible And Science

[Music] [Music] and welcome once again to father Spitzer's universe I'm Doug Keck welcoming you to this location but we're actually in the EWTN studios in Irondale Alabama on the mother ship but this is where we begin our voyage will be joined by father Spitzer momentarily a couple of things to remember that your participation is important in the show send us your emails and check us out on Facebook and send us a tweet on Twitter and for all things father Spitzer's a couple places now there's the magic center website as well as Father's newest website credible Catholic calm he's multiplying as we speak here so and today's topic is near-death experiences some new insights into that we'll be talking about and speaking of two new insights dr. David Anders everybody knows him through EWTN from that wonderful radio program he's doing in fact he's doing it right now at the same time but he's got a wonderful book published by our own EWTN publishing the Cavett search saved my marriage discovering hidden grace in the sacrament of matrimony it's great great book look for my interview with him coming soon in a couple of weeks on bookmark as well we can pick up the book through our ewtn religious catalogue ewtn our c-calm with that said another great author the one we speak to every week is father Spitzer and we move over to the west coast and welcome once again to the show welcome father great to see as always great to be with you Doug and we're gonna be talking about near-death experiences something many times over the last year and a half two years we've talked about on and off talk a little bit more about that and how people can better understand that in the context of today's world but first let's start with a prayer as we always do absolutely in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen Heavenly Father we give you thanks for the grace that you give us the unbelievable evidence around us for your presence your love we ask you lord that as we assimilate this and communicate it to others in our spirit of evangelization that we too will grow evermore deeply in the sense of your care for us and how you lead us to your salvation through our obedience to your church and your truth we ask that you send your Holy Spirit down upon us this day to inspire us guide us and protect us so that all that we do will be brought to fruition in your will through Jesus our Lord a man a Mary seat of wisdom pray for us name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen very good so let's let's get started with some questions before we get into our topic about near-death experiences in the second half of the program you know father we always get a lot of very positive mail but once in a while we get some people will have some questions or concerns about how we've answered questions so we don't shy away from them so let's we'll start you off with one of those your father Spitzer are I worried about some of father Spitzer's allegations his lack of emphasis on how serious sin is troubles me so they're concerned maybe we're pooh-poohing the seriousness of sin proof of that is how long we've been suffering for the one sin of Adam and Eve of course the recent show we did talk about Adam and Eve and original sin another proof is how the world is suffering for the new morality observed sin matters and we suffer for it generation passed on to generation and this is Beth ma-maybe it's Beth Ann but Beth Amy is what it says on the screen so we'll go with that and so I mean I could say that I don't think we've been pooh-poohing the seriousness of sin but there's also a second part there which maybe has to do the whole generational sin thing to which maybe we can talk about as well father right well Beth I don't think I've been pooh-poohing the seriousness of sin and let me just emphasize two quick things right from the start first of all of course you know sin leads in the darkness and there are two kinds of sin and the very serious kindness is mortal sin and and we've talked about what that means with respect to sufficient reflection full consent of the will and I'm going to talk that a little bit in a moment but for the time being just to make you know my position on this is really clear I mean if we enter into a state of sinfulness and darkness and we continue to allow ourselves to be sort of driven or brought into it ever more deeply so we're not resisting the sin but instead that we find ourselves you know you know kind of allowing ourselves to move more and more into it so that we're choosing the sin more frequently I mean obviously you're playing right into the devil's hand and away from the holy spirit and away from God's hand and as I've said many times you know God doesn't send us to hell we can get so deeply into the darkness we choose it that's what I think Christ Jesus was telling us again and again and why he's so emphatic you know don't mess with this don't mess with serious sins and mortal sins you know extricate yourself from and move toward the sacrament of reconciliation you know try to break you know with with these you know habits even if they become very a bitumen in to it the more clearly we're inclined to choose it that darkness even over the light that we suspect will make us happier but we've deluded ourselves so long we allow ourselves to be absolutely taken into the darkness so that's the first thing I want to emphasize the sin is serious I take it seriously the devil is serious I take him seriously but I take the Holy Spirit a lot more seriously and Jesus more seriously and the father more seriously so at the the point I'm trying to get to though is we have to use our freedom to move toward God and away from the evil spirit away from darkness so that's the first thing it's very serious the second thing though that I do emphasize you can't we don't want to be going around telling they're saying that everything is a mortal sin or a serious sin sin is serious but there is a classification of sin which is called serious in' or mortal sin by the catholic church which of course is one that jeopardizes our salvation that kind of sin it has to have Grievous matter as you know is clear but in addition to that there has to be sufficient reflection and full consent of the will so we don't want to go around Beth and telling people that everything is a mortal sin I mean you know if a kleptomaniac right you know is stealing yes of course if he steals things that are large enough to be serious that that is you can call it objectively a serious sin is is this person you know capable of doing of committing the sin with full consent of the world that is to say without any impediments to the free use of his will well no if he's a kleptomaniac you know he's got this it's a problem it's it's a it's a subconscious problem and it takes time and takes therapy it's gonna take self-awareness to try and move beyond it but there is an impediment to freedom there's no question again you know if you have a depressed person who's completely depressed and and and you know even if they do the most grievous sin of all which is suicide right is that necessarily full consent of the will no depression an in serious depression can absolutely be an impediment to the free use of the will and and Beth this is you can find this right there in in the Catechism of the Catholic Church so you have to be kind of careful how you there's the seriousness of sin but there are what we call mortal sins or serious sins that can of course jeopardize your salvation the latter has to be done with efficient reflection and full consent of the will right just getting into the intergenerational sin which I think you are also hinting at there Beth a good question there there is you know what we say about the sin of Adam and Eve is is that when they committed this sin you know basically they open the doors to what st. Agustin called concupiscence that is to say that we're kind of deprived of that original divine light that we had so we're deprived of that awareness of and that almost that vision of God as he is and and what happened through the sin of Adam and Eve is that we in in being so deprived are kind of we're not left to ourselves we still are 51% good we're still 51% in our nature is inclined toward God and grace but there is a lot in our nature that is inclined toward ego that is to say me over against God and of course the sin of Adam and Eve as you probably know is that one of your gonna be just like a god I will oh well maybe I'll just take a look at that fruit I'm going to examine it more closely Oh looks appealing to the eye sounds okay think I'll do it now the minute the ego Trump's the desire to be in communion with God that's the problem and once of course that divine privilege that human beings once had the divine vision of God as it were or it was kind of lost it was lost then we have this openness to concupiscence to what we Frank frequently call the seven or eight deadly sins in the Catholic Church and this gives us this you know this incredible weakness intergenerationally its weakness this it's not necessarily an overwhelming inclination towards sin 51 percent good at least we have to remember that but at the same time that does really make life a challenge in terms of envy pride vanity and and anger and and and lust and and and greed etc so we've we've got our challenges ahead of us to put the material world in front of God to put our ego in front of God and sometimes even to put human things before God well let me add a father event then too because it seems like on one level there's a concern like you're you're indicating um let's let's not turn everything into a mortal sin but do sometimes we turn what we refer to as venial sins and make them kind of like pointless and say well if it's not a mortal sin then it's really not a big deal yeah actually you're absolutely right Doug I mean we should absolutely be conscious of venial sins because things you know they tend to build up right they tend to form habits that are not going to be good for us into the future that's not to say you know we can just sort of be perfect avoid all all the sins I mean you know I I have to admit I do my fair share of the old venules on a on a regular basis and it's not because of neglect it's because I you know I do them you know sometimes I'm just not conscious of what I'm doing sometimes clearly I am more cavalier than at others and sometimes I just want to get that old ego boost and I deliberately choose to do something even though it's a slight or it's not or I think the Lord is leading me and things of that nature so yes we don't want to ignore those things at all we don't want to get into any kind of habit that's gonna you know form so we want to be conscious of turning it around and bringing it to our daily prayer and and moving out of the darkness more and more into the light one and more and more drug holiness or the ideal of sainthood right on the other side sometimes it seems like in a society we live today where most of us like to think we're not really responsible for anything when it comes to mortal sins and you start laying down all of you know your total understanding comin people would say you know well you know if I really knew that this was really hurting God the way you're describing of course I wouldn't have done that thing even though the church says it's wrong so since I really didn't intend to hurt God am i accountable yeah I mean or even hurt myself and the choice of my salvation which of course would hurt God too because you know if I'm sitting there moving into the darkness oh my gosh he's you know trying to pull the serpent out of the cradle you know what I mean and so absolutely people you know can say you know well if I had known now again you know I'm not in the position of judging people's motives and I don't want to be judging people's motives but the the main thing you know and indeed Jesus cautions us against it but the one thing I would just say is our best position is to just avoid the sinful proclivities and you know you know you don't want to judge another person best person to judge is yourself but if you find yourself sort of becoming overwhelmingly despairing you know as you're kind of considering your own sinfulness my one thought would be be careful about scrupulosity and get it taken care of with a good spiritual director right away because again you don't want to be ascribing to yourself you know full consent of the will for all kinds of things and elevating venial sins to mortal sins if you start doing that you know as st. Ignatius of Loyola discovered you know he almost was at the brink of suicide because he just felt a complete sense of hopelessness so the one thing we want to do is judge ourselves honestly yes don't be judging others that's the second thing thirdly as we're judging ourselves honestly if we are not really committing true mortal sins we have to be very very careful if we're moving into an area of despair or thinking that every venial sin is a mortal sin you know for just losing our ability to discriminate between the two things that's called scrupulosity and when you sense that you know loss of the ability to discriminate between the two kinds of sins or even to to know whether you have really you know done something with a sufficient reflection fold consider well I'm begging you to go to confession talk to a priest about it yet you know another perspective on it because I can assure you the only winner in the bout with despair is the evil spirit despair is only going to lead you away from God at the end because if you just give up on him and give up on life if you just say I just can't do it myself already there's almost a heresy there right of course you can't do it yourself it's with God and we rely upon the unconditional love of God so once you've forgotten that or you've just you can't distinguish between vanilla or you just can't you know sense that you know everything is full consent of the will you know whatever it may be then I would say if you've lost that ability to distinguish you know in some sort of objective way I'd really ask you to talk to a good confessor actually about it and you have some responsibility to make sure that you do have the ability to do that right yeah absolutely and that that's really important you really want to have that up you know on both sides of the equation not just on the scrupulous --'tis side but you also you know you want to ask a confessor if you think you know I've never committed a you know a serious sin in my whole life I just everything was you know I just had impediments everywhere right exam you know then I would probably say if that's your view talk to a confessor again you know because you're hurrying on the other side going into the darkness you got to keep a balance right I mean it seems to me in the world today you know scrupulous ateam a be a problem it it seems like unscrupulous 'ti may be a greater problem that we absolutely I mean there's there's no doubt and so I mean I mean you yeah exactly sometimes you know you just you have to know yourself but just as long as you can sort of make a fairly good objective distinction for yourself okay you know between those states you're in pretty good shape but if not get to a confessor if you're earning on one side or the other side go to confessor and try to to find that out and and of course we we don't want to be you know judging other people we don't know right just we have to remember that the Lord does know and so yeah we can fool other people we can't we can't fool him so yep exactly so here's another question Thank You Bethany we've got father Spitzer in reference to a recent discussion on God and philosophy understand one of gotcha buttes is that he is he is unchanging how we how will you reconcile this with the descriptions of him feeling anger sorrow vengeful etc and scripture even EWTN as a program titled where God weeps which is actually our friends from aid to the church and need produce that internationally Thank You Francesca Francesa Francesca yeah really Francesca that's a very big question and you know in the Theological community there's all kinds of comments on on this and and some really important theological opinions and distinctions that need to be made the first thing is God's nature is unchanging that doesn't mean that his subjectivity you know is is you can't change you know in accordance with relating to his creatures so the first thing is let's what is his nature it's his power so is God's intellect going to suddenly become restricted instead of unrestricted no he's going to have an unrestricted intellect and that's never going to change right and when we talk about God's power is it suddenly going to move from restricted to restricted no that's never going to change he's going to be unrestricted power he's going to be power without an internal restriction or an external restriction or what's called a boundary condition right etc all these things about his nature the way he is his power is his being is as unrestricted intelligence unrestricted power etc an unrestricted love that's not going to change now can God in relating to me a creature have a variety of sets of of you know different dispositions now again we have to speak analogously here an analogy is really really important because you don't want to say that God weeps like we weep you don't want to say that God is angry or something in the sense that we're angry and an anger is you got a it is a term that's used of God frequently in the Old Testament but not in the New Testament and so you have to be careful in describing these these these emotions to God but the first thing is is getting God have differing subjective positions in relating to me a creature yes but can does that change his nature no he's using his thinking or his feeling in a particular way now you say well God you mean God feels well yes but he doesn't feel like we feel in the sense of I feel having a privation in connection with the feeling but God does of course have loving dispositions towards us that we would analogously assign to a feeling that's the only way we can do it right we feel love in a particularly human way but you don't want to ascribe your human feeling to God particularly if that feeling is going to imply in some way a restriction to or you know something that would delimit or put a boundary condition unto God you can't do it that way so st. Thomas Aquinas when he talked about these things said you can always do this analogously and then an analogy means there's something similar between the two things but there's also something that is categorically different right God is unrestricted we're restricted so do I sort of so you say well well can I know what God's love is like well Thomas Aquinas would answer you yes and no you know your sense of love you know there is a similarity there when you love and when God loves right there's a similarity but unrestricted love is not loving the way you as a restricted being are loving so you you can't ascribe necessarily right you know so if you feel a sense of debilitation or something when you feel compassion you know God may have the same sense of loving compassion without the same human feelings that would you know put a boundary condition or a restriction on him so long as then you keep that notion of analogy and minun and an Aquinas is is right you know I mean there were other theologians who said no via negativa is the only way to go you know and and via negativa you know is a so-called apathetic way and it just means the only thing you can really know about God are negative things he is not changing he is not finite he is not restricted you know you can know he's won but that in a sense of not multiple etc so all you can know are these these things about him that are you know not and he said well wait a minute I don't know what I don't have a thought in my mind of what unrestricted is that's right that doesn't mean that unrestricted real right it means that I can't think of unrestricted because everything I'm imagining and thinking unfortunately is restricted because I have a restricted intellect now some theologians said well then don't talk about anything about God except the fact that he's unrestricted he's unchanging etc now you know Thomas Aquinas just liberated the world when he said no you can actually you know say something analogously and that's legitimately you don't have to say you know I understand how God's love is different from my love I understand how God's goodness is different from my goods I don't understand you don't understand no finite creature can understand that because God's goodness and in love are unrestricted nevertheless that sense of goodness that you feel when you're you know listening to your conscience and moving toward it and your will that sense of love when you have that sense of empathy and and and you know almost like oh naturality with another human being you know that sympathetic vibration all that there's something says Aquinas that's similar about it but not identical something which is analogous and that's the best we can really do but right when we do that we don't have to ascribe a restriction or a change in the nature of God just you can certainly say that god of course can you know you know dispose himself in any way so he can become incarnate if he wishes to relate to us but of course at the same time his nature doesn't change when he does it the Son of God enters into his own thought that is to say the second self-consciousness and God enters into the thought of creation and becomes one of us while remaining still using the infinite nature of God ok since we have a finite program let's get to another question before we go to the break of course here we've got our restrictions as you know so this is something kind of dovetails into what we'll be talking about a little bit later Leeson the kind of general society conscious things do we father along with God go through the review of our past life even before were actually dead only three days before my mother died she said that she now realized that she only thought of herself throughout her lifetime she was in fact a very narcissistic person thank you and God bless you for all you do Lynn so that's something you know we've kind of heard it's been popularized this idea of kind of and I guess some people even reported kind of some sort of review of your life the flashing it by you how about that you know well in near-death experiences about eighteen percent of the time people come back and they report that during clinical death they did have this intense life review though it obviously happened very quickly according to our perception of time here it seemed like you know like a whole life review almost right in front of them and that that happens about eighteen percent of the time that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen to another person somewhere else you know in the process of engaging with God after death and so forth but a life review is is very probable after death as you say now there are a lot of instances where people do have a kind of a life review before they die but it's not the same thing okay as the life review you get in a near-death experience or you actually you know this whole panoply of things come to you in an intelligible and lucid way what normally happens is is that you know in this kind of sense you know where a person is resigned toward death what happens is that once they say okay lord I I'm giving myself over to you I know I'm going to die and and I'm powerless to do anything I give myself over to you and boom this immense spiritual freedom occurs almost immediately and what happens is is that person looks upon their life for the first their ego is not obscuring the whole way they're seeing their life and then grace comes into the picture it is a graced experience or once the person in their freedom let's go into God's hands and says okay Lord I you know I just give it all over to you and the minute that happens grace moves in and of course there is this moment where you get with perfect freedom without the obscurity of intense amounts of ego you see your life as it really is and kablammo and boy that has happened to me about three or four different times I mean particularly with respect to you know I was very ungrateful to some of the best mentors I ever had that's not to say I was ever mean or anything like that I just never thanked them for all that they had done for me I mean I just even realize it in my egocentricity I didn't even realize all that they were doing for me and and and so in a way you know I look back on that and I go oh I really regret that several of them have since died and and and I just didn't say it right so I'm always telling God please let them know you know how grateful I am now and and so forth and and certainly even with respect to my father you know who I was I think with parents that's a that's a big thing for us to all consider as we take our break here on the show father and maybe talking more obviously about near-death experiences when we rejoin father Spitzer right after this quick break stay with us the heart of father Spitzer's universe much more ahead you'll want to stay with us [Music] and near-death experiences that's what our topic is today here on father Spitzer's universe as we continue our voyage rejoining father and getting to a quick question for him to get things started in our second half father somebody wrote to us on Facebook where do ghosts or souls that have passed before us fall in with near-death experiences could you explain about this I'd also like to know how to know if someone is fabricating a near-death experience thank you father Spitzer this is Christine so yeah how do those things all fit together yeah no great question Christine two quick things let me answer your second question first the we actually you know you can't judge whether somebody is fabricating a near-death experience unless they start pointing to a lot of things than just fall outside of what we call the typical description you know there are a variety of what we call typing of near-death experiences and there's a pretty typical right typing there's a pretty typical scheme you know of what happens in a near-death experience and if we see just a ton of add-ons that doesn't mean that the person is lying but it could mean one of two things number one that the person is remembering in an incorrect way or that the person is letting a personal agenda come into the picture maybe they are telling the truth but you'll it's very hard to say and you can't be uncritical so if it's falling you know if it's too much information beyond that the typical descriptions that are normally given my thought would be be suspicious the second thing is is what I do when I'm analyzing near-death experiences I only use peer-reviewed medical studies of near-death experiences where you have you know a thousand or two thousand patients who are of being examined right and and in with the context of a large number of patients you're testing objective data like veridical data and so forth that we'll talk about in a moment and you're testing these kinds of things and you also have a double-blind study so that you know people who had one who didn't have one what the circumstances were etc now that's a way of really getting eliminating as it were people who are like giving descriptions that are two standard deviations over and you can basically pull that out of the study and what remains is a pretty solid set of data even though it's reported data it's data that can be verified like blind people seeing or veridical data reporter that couldn't have been otherwise known meeting deceased relatives and having them tell you things that were otherwise unknown etc so the main thing to remember is you can get some objectivity with a really good study a longitudinal study with lots of people with all kinds of control groups and you know having peer reviewed people who are looking at it it helps to have a study being done by at least four colleagues right so that you know who our medical doctors are trained professionals with PhDs you know that can actually assess the data correctly so that's one way of really getting there but my my thought would be if somebody's telling you a story and it's just falling way outside the bounds of what's normal you know and it's beginning to sound like you know an apologetic for New Age religion or something rather than you know a real typical near-death experience check the suspicious box and move on let me because it's probably there's something wrong it's probably a hidden agenda there or there's probably a person who really really wants to believe this but maybe not so much on the the truth side of the other of the border so that's the first thing with about so things like yeah ghosts are kind of an interesting phenomenon first of all are there ghosts yes there are what kinds of ghosts are we distinguish between you know ghosts which are human beings that seem to be still staying around on this earth right and we don't know why they're staying around here some of them simply seem not to be leaving because there is something that they don't want to do or there's something that they're they want to have get finished or to do etc so there there there seems to be various motives that are connected with people who are staying around and what might be called a trans physical near-death state so they they don't have a physical body and it's not subject to physical embodiment though they could make a noise or they could do something which interacts with the material world in some way and and they could bother you to I mean they could do you know something like try and wake you up or something like one of those like a poltergeist yeah and and there have been a huge number of studies on this I don't think you can really done there's a good article by Peter Kreeft on this but yeah ghosts exist now there's a second kind of ghost which is a demonic a spirit and that's not a ghost we typically call a ghost a human spirit that for whatever reason is staying around then you also have you know demonic spirits and and demonic spirits they're bad news and and then Peter Creeft even sees a sort of a third category of ghosts and and that is a ghost who's not just sticking around here in this earth but a ghost that is maybe been recruited to a demonic force and so you have a human being that is in a way is is manifesting itself you know you know almost like a minion of the demon and you know as somebody who is like a you know an ally of the who is actually doing some evil stuff you know and and not with the same force as a demonic power but seemingly is a is a recruited a person and then also we have a people that Peter Creve says that maybe ghosts actually you know somebody who actually already is you know you know like almost heavenly you know or at least on the borderline of heaven or something and they want to reappear to their relatives to assure them of something almost as if they're there they're just a very they're very temporary right they they just come in they make some kind of an assurance and they move on they're not sticking around the kinds of ghosts that are sticking around those are generally of the the that there's something unresolved in their lives or something or their they may be something more or less agents of of the evil spirit who might be doing something as well and so these things you know they're there since we go out in data form right since we don't know which one they may be should we try to avoid getting involved with them I would avoid all ghosts of every kind and that includes you know whatever you do don't be taking out a Ouija board to try and make you know a contact with long-lost uncle Edie because the odds are first of all you're not gonna get uncle Edie unless he's in a very compromised and even you know almost demonic state presuming that he is not you're gonna get somebody else who's making himself available through an occult experience I wonder who that could be and of course it's going to be the evil spirit or one of his spirits who's going to be present and I'm telling you there's darkness associated with that through and through so whatever you do do not try and make contact with the ghosts do not in any way you know the evil spirit can come to you in a myriad of disguises and make himself seem like he's your mother or father or whatever best friend who died or whatever it may be that the point of course is don't believe it I mean if you have a heavenly apparition for a few minutes you know after somebody dies and and there's an assurance there and then they're gone that's one thing you know that's probably your your mom or something right but on the other hand you shouldn't be if somebody's hanging around or doing things and you know and there's something wrong and I'm telling you just do not consort with them do not talk with them don't try of course to even conjure them you know be on your beware it reminds me of absolutely the Ray Bradbury story Something Wicked This Way Comes I believe that was says yeah we've got exactly the people being confused over who they're actually dealing with they're not dealing with let me ask you a question as we're talking here about credible Catholic kneeled the near-death experiences on your website father when we say 18 percent of the people have the experience is it because do we think only that many have it do we think maybe more have it but don't remember it and is there some sort of standard profile of the kind of person who would tend to have a near-death experience yeah that's a really good question and there's a lot of ambiguity in this whole area let me just say from the beginning 18 percent of adults who undergo clinical death that's basically to say that their brain shut down their heart stopped right and so they have a flat EEG fixed and dilated pupils and no gag reflex looks like the lower brain and the cerebral cortex have shut down once that occurs consciousness is not possible on any significant level and that includes sight and hearing so 18 percent of adults will actually say that they moved outside of their body and that they see themselves you know above their bodies and and actually have a sense of the whole environment around them they can actually report what's going on in the room even blind people can see for the very first time during this experience they are not subject to physical laws so they can move through hospital walls and even the exterior walls of the hospital they're not subject to gravity or any physical you've got a great in in in the actual section on credible you have this great story about somebody would have saw a sneaker on a Ledge yeah right yeah that's right she went right through the the hospital wall and she's outside of the hospital on the third floor looking back at the hospital and sees a sneaker on the ledge with the shoelace tucked under the sole and the left toe toe is worn out and of course trying to spot this from down below and see a worn left toe on a sneaker three who stories above is really hard for people who don't have Superman eyes to do so of course one of the researchers that were actually checking out the vertical experience crawled out but Hospital edge and brought this shoe back in exactly as reported so of course people were going how did she know that well the long and the short of it is there's all kinds of experiences of this where the person is in a trance physical form and so the question arises why do 85% 85% of children have such an experience only 15% do not whereas adults only 18% of adults have this experience and therefore right the the vast majority right that'd be about 82 percent do not you know so you have to you know what's what's going on here what explains not only the difference between adults and kids but why doesn't everybody have a near-death experience who actually goes into clinical death and the reason the only I've come up with about three theories and these are my theories of course it very difficult for a person who hasn't had an experience to have any sense of why you didn't have it so the you know that's where we why we lack the data but here's my theory theory number one these people there is something that needs to be done visa vie judgment and God is awaiting judgment of their lives for some reason that is to say something else has to be done in their lives and they have to use their freedom to make a choice in that something else or something else's right so it could be multiple things that need to be done and free choices that need to be made and and and you know something has to happen and God's waiting he's not going to have any kind of a judgment of that person prior to this moment and and that's one of my theories and I it may hold it some water the second thing is it's the whole area of purgatory you know again this is similar to the judgment circumstance but a person who may be destined for purgatory might not have an experience of the white light now what I'm talking about here is when you know after the person you know is in the hospital and looking around or outside the hospital and you know one of the things if you go to the first module there of our seven essential modules and you click on it one of the the videos in there is a blind person who has been blind from birth and he literally comes out of his body and he can see and he goes right through the hospital walls and he's giving this vivid description of everything outside the hospital wall right and he's literally talking about the snow the tracks and the snow where the trees are you know situated etc etc and of course he's describing this and would he know you know and and in while he might you say well he might have known that it was going to snow that day or something in that day fine you know I'll go for that but not when you can describe the direction of tracks and everything else you know there's too much too much data that you know he wasn't made aware of before he went to the hospital so you look at that and it's just like how's this guy doing this now what's my point my point is right after that experience people frequently go to another heavenly domain where all their suffering is completely alleviated where they feel this intense sense of love either you know from a loving white light or from Jesus frequently they will meet deceased relatives and sometimes friends but mostly relatives etc now that you know part of the experience that seems to already say that the person you know who either went through the judgment in a flash with the Lord or basically you know you know the Lord has in some sense judge to to experience this thing like a child is judging to experience to be worthy to experience this reality that really does occur I think for people who are in some sense ready you know to be moved in this area though God is going to tell them it's not your time but he's okay with letting that person see the reality that awaits them and and frequently - the same thing with purgatory I think if somebody's is destined you know for some predation there that that frequently enough you know there's no experience of a near-death experience and in that sense so I think that that's probably you know something has to be done to purge the ego and so you don't have an experience alternatively with kids most of the time the kids are pretty innocent you know and and for all intents and purposes the kids you know they could come up there and much of the time they see Jesus right I mean honestly and and and you know they talk to Jesus and come right back and they tell you you know well we saw Jesus what's interesting is that this one gal who is a very talented artist as a girl she drew this picture of Jesus and these researchers began you know when the kids came back and said well they saw Jesus well what did he look like I pull out one picture of the Sacred Heart no I didn't look right like that they pull out another one no that's not it either you know no no that's finally they pull out you know this sort of picture that this girl did that's him you know that that's him you know and of course so there's something going on there too but I think kids you know they just don't have a lot of the progression yet ahead of them they're they're they're more moldable if I can put it that way right and also that maybe you know God is not suspending judgment there there there's you know and what about unison what about the ID and what about the idea that it does seem to be you know that the of the of the people who had near-death experiences I'm assuming the vast majority of them were positive right yeah probably really about 98 percent right yeah so why are there were times when you get more stories of the people who were looking at the gates of Hell so to speak and came back I am Not sure of that either I do know two things this recent study that was done of near-death experiences with 2060 people at the University of Southampton called the Samuel Cornett study dr. Samuel parney and 10 of his colleagues did a study there that was really pretty comprehensive they thought that a lot of the people who they they didn't have a near-death experience as I've been describing it but they did have a sense of foreboding or darkness or a kind of a fear prior you know almost like lightning fast before death or maybe you know even at the moment of death but that experience seems to have stopped so there's almost like this initial thing of you know a sense of Darkness or foreboding or something of that nature and then it stops and he measured some of those experiences as well but it really wasn't like the the 2% they have an experience of hell that's really hellish and in the sense of being around terribly evil and demonic you know almost you know no interior light coming through the eyes sorts of beings and and and that sort of an experience is quite different from what partying was measuring in his thing which was really kind of like almost as foreboding that that might happen and so that is there but I think that a lot of people are just not yet being judged there's still some time for them to reform and I think the ones that do have the experience of Hell maybe God is thinking in his own merciful way if I give them an experience of what they are doing you know there's it's so far gone right now that you know I think I'll just give them an experience of of you know what they're doing and and you know I'm just gonna as it were scare them into seriousness but I think again God would have to do that only in a way that would not impede their freedom right so there has to be something about that individual which God can give them an experience like that which is not going to as it were forced them to be good there's already some disposition in them to want to choose god but they're they're somehow stuck in something and and he's going to do this without impeding their freedom but I I tell you that the solution to the question you ask really does concern human freedom God is not going to take your freedom away even in a near-death experience and he deems I guess that in children he's not going to take their their freedom away but in adults he might be doing that or he might you know be you know not how to judge them yet there's still something they have to do to complete their lives but it's a really good question and it's the big question right you know that that that's there okay very good we're just out of time for this week's program and we'll have a part two as we continue talking about near-death experience we just really touched the surface of it but father if you'll give us your blessing to get us through the week that would be great absolutely and may the Lord of all compassion and mercy and love who seeks only to bring us through our freedom into the fullness of our lives through the choices the serious choices that we make may his grace fill you his spirit guide and protect you so that everything you do will orient yourself toward that grace and that light to which we are called in the fullness of life and love through by him in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen amen thank you so much farther we shall see you next week and for all of you watching here on father Spitzer's universe don't forget that tonight we've got EWTN live a really special program on with father Mitch Matthew Bunsen's gonna be there talking about the doctors of the church as a new documentary series we just started producing we love it we think you'll love it too it's on Saint Athanasius of Alexandria tonight at 10:00 p.m. is the actual airing of the program there's the live show and the program so much here on EWTN next time more near death in the heart of father Spitzer's universe I'm Doug Keck we'll find you as always at the intersection of faith and reason it's the place to be every Wednesday thanks [Music] you

Channel: EWTN

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Id: 3B_lMnzE4H0

Length: 55min 49sec (3349 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 20 2018