STRIKES LAUNCHED ACROSS UKRAINE YESTERDAY, WHICH MOSTLY TARGETED ELECTRICAL FACILITIES. JOINING US NOW, WEEKLY COLUMNIST FOR "THE WASHINGTON POST," FAREED ZAKARIA. AUTHOR OF "AGE OF REVOLUTIONS." GREAT TO HAVE YOU. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BOOK IN DEPTH IN A MOMENT, BUT LET'S GO BACK TO THE CONVERSATION WE WERE HAVING A MOMENT AGO ABOUT ISRAEL AND THIS STEP NOW TAKEN BY THE UNITED STATES TO SEND A TOP MILITARY COMMANDER TO TEL-AVIV TO COORDINATE WITH THE IDF, TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITIES AND THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT IRANIAN RETALIATION FOR THE STRIKE IN DAMASCUS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. WHAT DO YOU SEE IN THE MOVE FROM THE UNITED STATES, BOTH TACTICALLY AND SYMBOLICALLY? >> I THINK THE U.S. HAS BEEN WORRIED FROM THE START THAT WHILE IT DEFENDS ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AND PURSUE ITS ADVERSARIES, THE MANNER IN WHICH IT HAS CONDUCTED THIS WAR HAS BEEN SOMETHING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN, FRANKLY, OPPOSED TO FROM THE START. THEY BELIEVED THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DISCREET AND DISCRIMINATING IN THE ATTACK. THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE WAR WIDENING. WHAT HAPPENED HERE, OF COURSE, IT WAS AN ISRAELI STRIKE ON AN IRANIAN CONSULAR FACILITY IN SYRIA THAT IS PROVOING THE CIRCUMSTANCE. WHAT I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO MAKE SURE IS THAT THE WAR DOESN'T SPREAD. OBVIOUSLY, THAT MEANS THEY'RE VERY WORRIED ABOUT IRANIAN RETALIATION, BUT THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH ISRAEL IS GOING ABOUT THIS. LOOK, IT'S CRASS TO POINT THIS OUT, BUT IT IS TRUE. PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HAS EXTREMELY LOW APPROVAL RATINGS. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT WERE THE WAR TO END, HE WOULD FACE A POLITICAL RECKONING. SOMETHING LIKE 75% OF ISRAELIS WANT HIM OUT ONCE THE WAR IS OVER. SO THERE IS, OBVIOUSLY, A DANGER THAT THIS WAR GOES ON AND THAT THIS WAR EXPANDS BECAUSE THAT IS IN THE PRIME MINISTER'S POLITICAL INTEREST. THESE THINGS ARE AWKWARD TO SAY, BUT THAT IS THE REALITY. >> THAT IS THE REALITY. IT IS ALSO -- IT'S AWKWARD TO SAY, AS WELL, BECAUSE HAMAS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th, AND YET IT WAS MADE POSSIBLE IN SO MANY WAYS BY BENJAMIN NETANYAHU. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET ANSWERS FROM ISRAELI OFFICIALS AND OTHERS. MAYBE YOU CAN PROVIDE SOME INSIGHT. WHY DIDN'T NETANYAHU KNOW ABOUT -- WHEN HE KNEW ABOUT THE RESOURCES IN 2018, WHY DIDN'T HE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? HE SENT THE MOSSAD CHIEF. QATARIS WERE SAYING, DO YOU WANT US TO STILL GIVE MONEY TO HAMAS? SURE WE DO. WHY DID IT TAKE FOUR, SIX, EIGHT, TEN, TWELVE HOURS FOR ISRAEL TO RESPOND TO THE BRUTAL RAPING AND SLAUGHTERING OF JEWISH PEOPLE IN THE WORST HOLOCAUST -- WORST KILLING OF JEWS SINCE THE HOLOCAUST? YOU KNOW, WHEN 9/11 HAPPENED DOWNTOWN, OUR FIRST RESPONDERS WERE THERE IN TWO MINUTES. WHY? DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWERS? >> LOOK, THE BROADER STRATEGIC PROBLEM IS THAT BIBI NETANYAHU WAS COLLUDING WITH HAMAS. IT WAS AN INFORMAL COLLUSION, BUT IT WAS A COLLUSION WHICH WAS STRATEGIC FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. HE WANTED TO KILL THE IDEA OF A TWO-STATE SOLUTION. HOW DO YOU KILL THE IDEA OF THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION? YOU SAY THE PALESTINIANS ARE UNGOVERNABLE. THEY'VE GOT -- THEY'RE DIVIDED. ONE PART OF THEM IS RUN BY THIS FANATICAL CRAZIES. IN ORDER TO KEEP THAT FURY ALIVE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE FANATICAL, CRAZY JIHADISTS, HAMAS, ARE WELL FUNDED. >> SO HE FUNDS THE JIHADISTS. THEN, TALK ABOUT HOW THAT FREES HIM UP TO ACTUALLY PUT PRESSURE ON PALESTINIANS ON THE WEST BANK AND ALLOW ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS TO CONTINUE TO GROW THERE. >> LOOK, IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS, THE DAY TONY BLINKEN WAS IN ISRAEL, HE ANNOUNCED AN APPROPRIATION OF 2,000 ACRES OF LAND IN THE WEST BANK FOR FURTHER SETTLEMENTS, SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY THE UNITED STATES BUT ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD BELIEVES IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW. SO, YOU KNOW, THE STRATEGY IS STILL, AT SOME LEVEL, IN PLACE. WHY THERE WAS THAT FAILURE ON THAT HORRIBLE DAY WHERE THERE WAS THE BRUTAL MASSACRE THAT HAMAS DID AND FOR WHICH IT IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE AND IT SHOULD BE DESTROYED, I THINK THAT MAY HAVE BEEN AN IDF FAILURE. BUT IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT BIBI NETANYAHU WAS NOT SPENDING HIS TIME WORRYING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AN ATTACK FROM HAMAS. THAT WAS NOT HIS CONCERN. >> WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT HOW MUCH DR. BRZEZINSKI, GREAT RESPECT HE HAD FOR YOU. I WENT BACK, AND I KNOW YOU SPOKE WITH HIM A GOOD BIT. >> YUP. >> WENT BACK AND READ HIS MEMOIRS ABOUT CAMP DAVID. EVEN THEN, EVEN GOING BACK TO '78, THERE WERE CONSTANT DISCUSSIONS, CONSTANT BATTLES ABOUT ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY IT IS IN ISRAEL'S BEST INTEREST, CYNICALLY, TO KEEP PUSHING THESE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS IN THE WEST BANK? SOMETHING THE UNITED STATES, WHETHER IT IS JIMMY CARTER OR RONALD REAGAN OR GEORGE H.W. BUSH OR JOE BIDEN, WHY ISRAEL KEEPS IGNORING THE UNITED STATES AND PUTTING THESE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS IN THE WEST BANK. >> I THINK IT IS NOT IN ISRAEL'S LONG-TERM INTEREST. >> THEY THINK IT IS. >> THE BEST ADVOCATE ON THIS ISSUE IS THE FOUNDING PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL WHO WAS, HIMSELF, YOU KNOW -- DAVID BEN-GURION, THE MAN, PROBABLY MORE THAN ANY OTHER SINGLE HUMAN BEING CREATED ISRAEL AND ALLOWED IT TO SURVIVE, WHEN THE WAR TAKES PLACE IN '67, A FEW MONTHS LATER HE SAYS, "GIVE BACK THE TERRITORIES. YOU'LL REGRET THIS. TRUST ME." THIS IS A MAN WHO, IN FOUNDING ISRAEL, HAD TO TAKE A LOT OF LAND AND EXPELLED A LOT OF PALESTINIANS. >> RIGHT. >> THIS IS A TOUGH GUY. >> RIGHT. >> HE SAID, "YOU'RE GOING TO RUE THIS. BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE STUCK WITH THIS PROBLEM," WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED. >> RIGHT. >> LAND ACQUIRED BY FORCE IS SOMETHING THE WORLD IS NOT GOING TO RECOGNIZE. WE DON'T RECOGNIZE IT WHEN PUTIN DOES IT. WE DON'T RECOGNIZE IT WHEN ISRAEL DOES IT. THEREFORE, MAKING -- YOU KNOW, THE REASON WE HAVE ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT ISRAEL HAS THESE OCCUPIED LANDS IS BECAUSE IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN -- THE IDEA HAS ALWAYS BEEN, THERE IS A PATH HERE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THIS OUT. THIS IS A TEMPORARY ACQUISITION. >> RIGHT. >> THE SETTLEMENTS MAKE THAT PERMANENT. BUT, TO BE FAIR, IT'S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO STATE IN THESE SITUATIONS, THERE HAVE BEEN ISRAELI GOVERNMENTS THAT HAVE MADE REAL GOOD-FAITH EFFORTS TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE. THERE WAS 98% OFFERED FOR THE TERRITORY. >> RIGHT. >> THE PROBLEM WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS THAT WAS, YOU KNOW -- AND THIS IS WHY I THINK ISSUES ON CAMPUS ARE DIFFERENT -- THE ISRAEL YOU AND I REMEMBER, JOE, IS AN ISRAEL THAT MADE SERIOUS OFFERS FOR PEACE AND THE PALESTINIANS TURNED THEM DOWN. FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS UNDER BIBI NETANYAHU, ISRAEL HAS MADE NO SUCH OFFERS, HAS BEEN APPROPRIATING LAND, HAS BEEN ARRESTING PEOPLE, KEEPS PALESTINIANS UNDER MARTIAL LAW, AND HAS SUPPORTED HAMAS. SO THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT ISRAEL THAN MOST YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. >> WILLIE, IT'S BEEN THAT CYNICISM WITH ONE FOCUS, AND THAT IS DOING EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO AVOID A TWO-STATE SOLUTION. THAT'S WHAT NETANYAHU HAS BEEN DOING. AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT HAS CAUSED THE CYNICISM FOR SO MANY YOUNG AMERICANS. >> YEAH, WE'RE SEEING IT -- >> WILLIE, ONE MORE THING, TOO. FOR PEOPLE JUST TUNING IN, I WILL SAY, WHEN FAREED TALKS ABOUT THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AND THOSE DEALS, JUST SO PEOPLE DON'T SAY, "OH, MY GOD, HE'S SO PRO-ISRAEL." I'VE HEARD FAREED SAY TIME AND AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT 2000, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, WHEN I BROUGHT IT UP WITH DR. BRZEZINSKI. THAT'S WHEN HE CALLED ME STUNNINGLY SUPERFICIAL. AS FAREED HAS SAID, HE'S USED THAT QUOTE THAT WE'VE HEARD DIPLOMATS SAY BEFORE, THE PALESTINIANS HAVE NEVER PASSED UP AN OPPORTUNITY TO PASS UP AN OPPORTUNITY. SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS TWO SIDES LOOKING PAST EACH OTHER. >> BY THE WAY, YOU CAN STILL GET YOUR STUNNINGLY SUPERFICIAL MURCH ONLINE AT MORNINGJOE.COM. >> THE MUG, T-SHIRT. >> COFFEE MUGS, YES. GOLF VISOR FOR THE MASTERS. MAKE IT A PACKAGE. >> EXACTLY. >> BEFORE WE GET TO THE BOOK, FAREED, AND THE AID NEEDED BY UKRAINE THAT'S BEEN HELD UP WITHOUT ANY SENSE OF URGENCY BY THE HOUSE, PARTICULARLY REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HOW THAT DELAY IS BEING FELT ON THE FRONT LINES AND IMPACTING UKRAINE'S ABILITY TO PUSH BACK RUSSIA, AS IT HAS FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS NOW? >> IT IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH. IT'S THE WORD OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE COMMITMENT THAT THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, BIPARTISAN, HAS BEEN MAKING FOR YEARS NOW TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND IS NOW PULLING THE RUG FROM UNDER THEM AT AN ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL MOMENT. IT REWARDS THE WORST KIND OF AGGRESSION. IT REWARDS THE MOST ANTI-AMERICAN DICTATOR WITH THE GREATEST POWER IN THE WORLD. I MEAN, IT IS EXTRAORDINARY, THE PARTY OF RONALD REAGAN IS HOLDING UP AID TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DESPERATELY FIGHTING TO BECOME MORE PRO-WESTERN, MORE PRO-AMERICAN, MORE PART OF THE WESTERN AND THE AMERICAN WORLD. RONALD REAGAN CALLED THE AFGHANS THE MORAL EQUIVALENT OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS. IF THEY WERE THE MORAL EQUIVALENTS OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS, THE UKRAINIANS FIGHTING FOR THEIR FREEDOM ARE SOME EXPONENTIAL VERSION OF THAT. THESE ARE REALLY THE GOOD GUYS. THEY HAVE TAKEN INCREDIBLE LOSSES. THEY'RE UP AGAINST A RUSSIAN AGGRESSOR. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE HAS SOME BIZARRE ARGUMENT THAT WE SHOULD BE SUPPORTING RUSSIA BECAUSE THEY'RE CHRISTIANS. THE UKRAINIANS ARE CHRISTIANS, TOO. THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR A LIBERAL DEMOCRACY, NOT A RELIGIOUS STATE. BUT THE RUSSIANS HAVE DESTROYED 100 UKRAINIAN CHURCHES BECAUSE THEY BOMB ABSOLUTELY INDISCRIMINATELY. IT IS NOT INDISCRIMINATE, ACTUALLY. THEY'RE TARGETING CIVILIAN FACILITIES, RELIGIOUS FACILITIES, WATER TREATMENT PLANTS. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST BRUTAL CAMPAIGNS AN AGGRESSOR HAS EVER WAGED. AND HE MIGHT WIN BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES IS DAWDLING OVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS. >> BECAUSE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE DAWDLING. >> TO BE FAIR, AGAIN, IT'S NOT EVEN HOUSE REPUBLICANS. A MAJORITY OF HOUSE REPUBLICANS WOULD VOTE FOR THIS. IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, MINORITY THAT IS REALLY TRYING TO BUILD A PROFILE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND NOT -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART OF WHAT THE PROBLEM WITH AMERICAN POLITICS IS RIGHT NOW. WITH A ONE OR TWO-SEAT MAJORITY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS BEHAING AS THOUGH IT HAS A
