Facing the Canon with Rachel Gardner

welcome to facing the cannon and I'm delighted that today my guest is Rachel Gardner hi Rachel it's great that you're on our program today it's good to be here thank you we want to hear a little bit about your story your life your journey and your work so tell us where did you grow up I grew up all over the place actually I'm mainly in Sussex and England so Eastbourne and Beth battle in that sort of area my parents are involved in church work and so my brother and I had sort of lots of different homes and different churches where we were involved and that my teenage years I grew up Ashbourne and places I don't know some of your yes might be in time gorgeous that's big lakes and it's a Christian conference and community centre people come from all over the place to meet with God so I still have my teenage years living there which is a bit amazing your parents are on the leadership - yes they are they're part of a community there yeah community yeah so have you always known the Lord yeah yes I think I have I I think when I was growing up it didn't feel like a blessing that my parents are Christians but I think because of the young people I work with now who don't have that and looking back in my own life it is such a privilege when you are in a family who your parents and your grandparents know Jesus so I think the older I get the more I realize how abundant my life was because well then my family didn't have much and there were periods of time where we were homeless and living with different people I think there was a strength of an a richness that came from being a Christian family and being together that I'm I'm really thankful for yeah that's great yeah but you left school you went to London School of Theology and you study theology I think well actually in my gap here I joined them I joined a dance and drama group and we went around Portugal a bunch of sort of 1920 oars on a coach went around Portugal and we stayed with different people and that was my probably a big searching time for me to club holed up in this Christian home I I have seen my faith my parents have a really vibrant faith but I still think it gets the point where you have to save yourself saluté leave this for me or not and I was doing the whole I'm 19 I'm too big for this I've outgrown my faith it's good for them but it's not good me and and I went on this trip for a few months and one night I stayed by myself with the Portuguese family who didn't speak any English and I don't speak any Portuguese and they all slept in one bed but they slept on the floor so I could sleep at the bed and you know this kind of amazing generosity yes in the morning I stood in the yard and I was trying to say to the lady of the house high-maintenance Western girl shower and should assisi and in my memory I'm sure it wasn't quite as bad as this but in my memory I think she went and got a bucket of cold water and literally threw it over me and in that moment something inside me woke up and what are you doing raped we do running around Portugal having a great time but just playing with life playing with faith so I committed to myself there and then if if if I if you know when I get home I'm gonna just seek out Gordon if he doesn't exist I will abandon Christianity and if he does exist I'm gonna set some great test of his way came back to England and God didn't meet me on any of those crazy tests I set him but God met me in a hold of other ways and in that summer before a Bible College that's really I think for the first time ever my faith became owned and something that I knew actually I will live and die and you can see it personalize it Christian was there a particular day a moment there was two weeks where I was at Ashburn and we've moved on to the community and I walked around the lake every day and just said and rather than being one particular date where it happened I think just slowly at the time God changed my heart and it obviously it made a difference and you had a hunger yeah is that what led you on to go and study theology yes it was and hungers a great word that's exactly how I'd describe it and I remember I do remember in those two weeks reading the very last chapter of the book of Job where job says my ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you and I think that sums up how I felt really wealth in my life I'd had that real privilege of hearing God and seeing people's experience but actually in that moment I thought now my eyes have seen you and I so yes I went by because loved it love spent three years there it was a Christian bubble but I loved them that's where you met your husband Jason and you be married how long nine yeah how would you describe what you do what are you are you a youth worker yes at my heart I am I'm director of a youth charity but I never set out to be director I founded a charity through a TV documentary series how did that all happen and I was doing a church history essay at Bible College very boring yes and was writing very randomly about nothing to do with young people and suddenly had a very strong conviction in my heart I've got I've got to find them I've got to get young people and began to cry and I began to pray and that and a few good friends around me said maybe that's God calling us this is random it's just the hormones surely and but as I left Bible closer I began to work for the YMCA the YWCA yes working with organizations who are not within the church particular but a parachurch seek you all to support fundable youth yes I began to that and since I got a job a scripture Union started working as a school's outreach work I love that love the vibrancy of being of young people who are looking for what to give their life to they're very passionate about young people and so from there really I think God began to direct me to really running the romance Academy and working with young people in that one area that probably has young people's soul attention more than anything else churches sex relationships identity Who am I and so I now I'm director of a charity that seeks to answer some of those questions with the young people for young and it's called the romance Academy so the main focus of that is to communicate a certain values to teenagers yes yeah I think it's mainly to carve out time with in young people's very busy lives and both sexualized culture that says although Society says to you that sex is everything actually we think this like more importance and that generation ships and faithfulness and knowing who you are and acting out of a place of strong values not just responding to the pressure that culture is putting on you so our material and all that we do is is deeply rooted in biblical wisdom in our Christian worldview but the vast majority of young people who we work with will not come from the Christian community sure but a young people made in God's image who I believe have the rights to hear about relationships and faithfulness and explore that so what do you what do you think teenagers biggest concerns and issues are today I think it's probably exactly the same as it's always been for all of us we'll have had that time of how do I fit in that people like me what's my life going to be like and if we look at adolescent development actually those questions are really big and really short answer so I think the questions haven't changed but I do think that culture is much more subtle and much cleverer and much more powerful at trying to answer those questions so it's said that you are what you buy or you are as good as a person who wants to have sex two things about you or and that's the way our culture answer those questions and we believe being created in the image of gods who is relationship he is holy but actually God alone can answer those deep-seated questions we have who we are why are we here does our life has significantly now do you think there's a distinction between teenagers who belong to church and teenagers who are outside of the church in terms of how they feel how they feel and think I think whether young people are in church or outside of church I think the same pressure still apply because no teenager lives in a bubble do they know and I think the difference is what what was found in lots of research is that young people who are part of a vibrant Christian community where they have good role models of Cristi ages they're given the space to explore often can make better life choices and they understand why they're doing what they're doing that's having said that in our work we do regularly come across Christian young people who want for cheese's yes who know they shouldn't be having sex they get my but have no idea why and no idea how you do that who really are crying out for adults who are wiser in the faith to get practical with them sure I'm gonna say let's hope let's help walk this with you and it's tricky adolescence is tricky you are gonna think about sex you are gonna be curious but let's rather than church be a place where you have to pretend this isn't a problem sure let's make church a place are actually young people choose I know where to go yes I do you think it's the media has portrayed the problem in a much bigger way so I mean we perceive it as a bigger problem but actually it's always existed I think that's yes I think that is true and what the media does very cleverly is make adults very afraid of young people so they are very anxious and I think teenagers make adults anxious at the best of times and I think I throw into that mix you know the power of the media then yes absolutely but I think one thing that church communities can do which the media in a way can't do is that young people are seeking out intimate meaningful relationships with people who are stage warriors people who saw have been there done that and if they tell the tale I think that where as being sort of creates idea that young people's role models are the celebrities and they are yes often if you ask a young person who do you really admire generally that person is someone they know fit you know they actually have a relation of personal relationship with yeah so how do you respond to these issues that teenagers have how do you do it how do you kind of give them and communicate self-esteem how do you do that and there's a great guy he wrote and mark Lykken le who wrote the contempt of youth love and he talks about how we can either respond from fear yes or we can respond from love and what we see modeled by Christ is that we respond from love and when we respond from a place of love we seek relationships with people we seek to go in a bit of a journey with them we're not just looking for the outcomes we're looking for the process as well and I think what we tried to do as romantic as means encouraging youth workers is not to just think will do that the sex talk and that will handle it or we'll just buy one that resource and that'll do it yes it's how do we create a space where young people can have relationships with adults in church where they can be mentored on these big issues but also how can we have young people realize they can bring this to God that all of this stuff matters to God it's not yes oh you know church life do we read the Bible yes that's concerned about it I think that's quite key is a little bit of a shift in thinking really helping young people see that rather than have to deal with this on their own would you say that there's a reluctance in the church today to engage with young people and to invest I think churches want to do it I think there's a reluctance in how to do it sure I think lots of churches would say what we need is young people and my of response often is no what you really need there's not young people right now but I think there's an idea that we need to have more young people our church but I think as you say a reluctance maybe to pay the cost of what that would entail yes I think churches are often quite monoculture and I think we often make the mistake that young people need to be the ones that do all the changing to fit into this yes structure I think lots of tension in church it's not around theology it's not around to be love each other it's often around form you know the music was too loud or you know that was the kids are too messy and I think I think the churches are I see young and old growing as disciples together and those are prepared occasionally to throw things out the window and say actually what matters is that together we're loving God and service and we're willing old and young to sacrifice things that get in the way of that JB Phillips had a translation of a scripture years ago that became popular don't let the world mold you do you think the world molds us more than we mold the world so really it's a really good question I think if I think about um the amount of hours that people spend in front of screens yeah I do as well absolutely the world is shaping me and I have to be realistic about that and I think that is a challenge for us but I also feel that God's called us to be his agents of changes in the world so he has every resource that we need to make a difference so I think that's quite an exciting mission to get halters and how do we get hold of that and so I think it's been brilliant so survivor doing things like read the Bible in a year we're doing that with our young people that's really exciting and they're all on online chatting about it I didn't know so who came after so-and-so so there's lots of brilliant ways that the main people are helping younger people engage with how do we listen to God's words and how do we listen to God's world so that we can be shaped by God's Word so we can shape God's right I don't think that's my course a free sample some teenagers who are Christians who love the Lord but they go to school and they're in this sea of unbelief and cynicism and sarcasm and I mean how do they survive without drowning when I was a school worker we used to run Christian Union groups and call them how to survive in school yes and then we suddenly realized we didn't want them just to survive we wanted them to thrive and there's a great motive a school organizer and outreach organization has caused my school and my responsibility and I know it's about disabling Christian young people to say what is God asking of you and it might be that you need to stand up in the lesson and say actually I don't I don't believe in that but it might be actually that you need to be the one that seeks out the young person that no one else wants to be friends yes it might be that you want some mana to the school toilets because you know if you're bright time kids are bullied there so even though you're not prefect you and your friends go and hang out in the school toilets I think it's saying to our young people we know that you want to bring the light of Christ into your school but we know that sometimes you feel the way you've got to do that would would be potentially social suicide sure that's what God's asking from you is that in all your interactions that you live for him and sometimes it's not what we say is how we are of course and I remember those that when I let's go into the reunion a few years later and I there was a girl that was often being bullied at school and I used to often stand up for her and I didn't ever really choose to be her friend which I should have done but at least I didn't really have but I remember and some girls saying we remember that about you make sure that you never joins in the bullying yeah and when I was a teenager I actually felt a lot of guilt about the fact that I didn't choose to be her friend as well but what the other girls noticed was that I didn't join in yeah and they were turning at night and I was thinking oh I haven't said much about Christ today and I haven't you know said that x y&z yeah the thing they remembered was how I lived from the insurer I think that's that's the challenge isn't it as a young Christian Tina how did you live but it is hard because you're going against the time sometimes teachers can also be incredibly cynical yes and and there seems to be what I think I've noticed over the the years I mean I've been involved in Christian work for 32 years that there is a greater ante Christian thought and feeling I mean I've ever known I do finally yeah I think you're right I do we do get emails from Christian teenagers often they feel quite persecuted in sex ed lessons when you're saying actually I'm choosing not to have sex for margin even the teacher is taken that's quite a judgemental comment which is ludicrous this is a young person owning their own opinion that's good isn't it you know yes I mean isn't that better for culture that they won't they won't be sleeping around isn't that cheap of the culture and I think that is the case I think the on the other side though although positional Authority might be gone I think personal Authority is what speaks so I think even though I think I do think Christian teenagers have a tougher time and and I did in the previous generations I think what really communicates is if peers see in their friends they really live for this yes they really and it's not just because it's a religion they're religious that there's actually something about the way they live their life it's different and I think me to celebrate our young people more and recognize more as a whole community yes it's gonna be tough in the world of mrs. Li it is so Rachel what are the reasons for saving yourself till marriage go on tell us but I just love the passage of Matthew where Jesus talks about how God created men and women for each other yes and that wonderful union of two becoming one flesh and no one should desecrate his art he Jesus had a message version and I think there's a profound mystery about our sexuality that we create an image of a God who is relation relational and we spend all our life seeking out meaningful relationships friendships neighbors spouse whatever and sex is the gift that God has given that exclusive relation that says you are now warned your words met and I think if we want to really flourish as human beings if we want to know our real potential for intimate relationship and actually sex has to be after Matt after that commitment of two people saying yes we choose each other and then sex becomes all that it can be in releasing our potential growing in love I think when sex is entered into really early it's such a massive thing but it is so confusing and people feel so broken and so let down and actually God's gift of sex becomes a very thing that alienates us from each other and as a culture we are very sexualized and we are very alienated from each other it's become a negative force in our culture so I think it's not about God loving us more we don't save sex so much because we think God will be happy with us no sure we don't save sex and much we think that somehow magically it'll make a marriage work or as it won't work otherwise I chose with my husband to save sex and marriage because I wanted to honor Jason and honor God and say I'm so committed that faithfulness and relationships is what matters the most but that are my expression that will be that you and I don't have sex till we get them yes I mean it's tough and there are many many Christians who struck we struggled there are many Christians who struggle and what I hold on to above all else is God's immense grace that you know that knows how society seeks to feed our appetites he knows how confusing and painful and broken we are in our sexuality but in His grace there's always a line that can be drawn in the stand there's always a new beginning that can start and I love that I love that too even though Jason I save sex and marriage we have to work on might have to work off that horse magic I love that about falling Christ oh absolutely and and I could say the same about Kelly and I you know we've been married 27 years and you know it's great and it's getting better yeah we've got the silver medal we're going for gold but what about people who've got the idea though Rachel who's sometimes say oh well I'm going to choose to do this because I know that God will forgive me right she's have sex they know God cares anyway and I think on one level yet they're free to do that that's the whole thing about unconditional love is that's and free will is that we are free to say to God actually we will do that I think the difference is those shallow grace and deep grey of course but I think Jason I know that we'll be there for each other he could go and play around and flirt with every woman going yes and probably if you know as long as he wasn't playing Oh from home too much I probably would forgive him most of time but our relationship would remain completely shallow because I actually worked I wouldn't go to trust him enough to really share Who I am with him yes and I think the danger is that when we have this attitude towards grace that cheap grace we never realized how rich our relationship with God could be because there's a young person at the moment he was addicted to like Kentucky Fried Chicken and chips really cheap and I loved it but he said everyone's right yes yes I always say to him I'll change his name I always say to him Tom you have no idea just how strong you could be because at the moment you're eating a diet of food that is just so shallow and horrible I'm gonna cook you a really good meal everyone Minh and he let me do it occasionally and he would feel better but he's gone back to the old way now he's surviving he's eating he's not enjoying food and is not enjoying the benefit of a decent meal and I think when it comes to our sexuality you know how we relate to God I relate to each other doing it God's Way is not about keeping God's happy it's about saying we recognize that you've created us for a big love feast you know for this great Jamie Oliver's in there as opposed to Sam stickin yes and actually if we keep choosing fast food we're feeding appetite we'll just have sex then they okay yeah I got forgiveness yeah absolutely but we never really get to experience what could happen if we said I want to do this your way and I think we as charity to demonstrate that more to a society who I feel let down by sex but I'm not seeing any alternative no Rachel just an observation is that I think this last decade there's been quite a strong emphasis on God's grace and God's love and God's forgiveness but do you think we're ignoring in Scripture God's judgment I mean sometimes God says and it's recorded in Scripture that when we don't do what he's instruct us to do it's like he has words like it's an abomination to him and you think we don't have the right balance that when we're it's like God's a sugar daddy but actually he's not gonna reprimand me I'm reading a book once it talked about the Ephesians passage where Paul says flee sexual immorality free impurity and if you don't you incurring God's wrath and this writer was suggesting that a way of understanding God's wrath was two words desire mixed with grief yes actually got the picture of Roth is of God's judgment but it's also God's grief yes there could be so much more but because we choose to reject him that great and I I find that because I love God because I want to my life to be in line with him that hurts me that I grieve him and I think that's quite an interesting way of looking at judgment there is a lying cross and we do have to come face to face with God and account for that but it's not a brutal God who is angry he is a guy who is grieving I think it's whole deal about intention which is really but but I wonder you know we like I was you know trying to park my car and it was those double yellow line and that was the only place I could park but actually it wasn't available but I was entertaining the the kind of odds if I parked my car there would somebody yeah traffic warden calm and would I get a penalty and then in the end I thought that I don't want the penalty I didn't park the car there but I don't think we think like that with God is a bit like you know you have an maybe an operation and you've recovered from the operation but you've still got the scar that even though we may experience God's healing and forgiveness we all still have the scars we were testing earlier weren't we about working with young people and discipleship being a process but it always needs to be a point of crisis whether people have brought face to face with how they are and that's tough we live in a culture that like we like to wrap everything in cut some wall we don't know I want people to have to face the consequence of their actions and working on their sexual health arena a lot of our none of the education like hunt you around condoms and morning-after pill is basically saying to young people don't worry we'll just delay yes you ever taking responsibility for the choice you've made and so we wonder why it doesn't change their behavior yeah well most it won't change you know if I constantly have another thing so it's a kind of society and I think in terms of discipleship and our understanding of grace I think you're absolutely right we need to make sure that we never are trying to package something that doesn't do people with disciple any any good does it if we're gonna hide the father there's a point in which we say no actually that's it that's it yeah absolutely so are you are you hopeful and optimistic about the future and and what the church is doing I think it's exciting times to be alive absolutely I think there are huge challenges on us I think our faith is being undermined left right and center but I think we're gonna come out shining like gold I think is it God is asking us to nail our colours to the mast we're having to come clean on who we are yeah we what we live for and the young people who we work with they don't just want to follow a religion they want to follow someone work living and dying for sure and we as the body of Christ and I have a responsibility I think to live out not a perfect Christianity but a vibrant faith that says we want to be more like Christ every day Rachel thank you so much you

Channel: Facing the Canon

Views: 8,548

Rating: 4.8857141 out of 5

Keywords: facing the canon, facing, the, canon, rachel gardner, rachel, gardner, romance academy, romance, academy, relationships, education, interview, j.john, jjohn, j john, philo trust, philo, trust, bible, God, Jesus, Christianity, Holy Spirit, Christian

Id: ZP_BG3LJ8to

Length: 28min 10sec (1690 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 11 2013