Exploring the Lord of the Rings, Session 197 Bilbo's Literary Theories

good evening everybody welcome back to exploring the lord of the rings finally it has been a long time we've had three weeks off now as i was on an extended road trip which was successful i successfully delivered my child to college so that was good um uh but uh good to be back here with everybody this is session number 197 of exploring the lord of the rings and today we're going to jump straight to the end we're going to talk about the ending that's what we're talking about today bet you didn't expect that but of course there we are um so yeah bjornis honor you are too right north dakota is just the flattest thing i have ever seen in my life i've never i've never even imagined anywhere as flat as that it's unbelievable um but um uh anyway yeah so jj says i don't recall exactly where we were in the book we'd better start over to make sure we didn't forget anything agreed agreed all right so um uh i want we'll well in in a minute we will jump straight in let me uh uh remind you first we are starting to approach it is almost september tomorrow is september and uh then that is the month of our first regional moot of the year as we begin back our regional moot cycle um so that is going to be the 25th saturday the 25th of september uh new england moot in durham new hampshire you are welcome to join us either in durham new hampshire for the on-site event or you can join us online for our digital version of the moot we are working hard to accommodate both audiences and make sure that everybody who attends whether they do so digitally or corporeally has an awesome moot day so uh looking forward to that um can't wait it's fun to start right here in my backyard so um that's um that's going to be a lot of fun i'll tell you some more about uh the program and everything we've been talking about the things that we're planning which are going to be a lot of fun so but i'll tell i'll tell you more about that next week anyway yeah so it's going to be it's going to be fun also middle moot is coming up very soon after that just two weeks after that out in the middle of the country um out in iowa in waterloo iowa to be precise on october 9th for middlemoot and once again for all of our regional moots this year we are going to uh be broadcasting them digitally as well so um and yes you can give a presentation at middlemoot if you're only attending remotely yes it is possible to do a remote presentation at middlemoot absolutely absolutely um yeah yeah um yep yep that is definitely possible that is definitely possible um okay are rates allowed uh yet uh uh i'm daros are you uh are you are you trying to sort of circle it back again to the buttocks question um do you like it that we that we attempted to address in several different ways a few weeks back um uh no no rates are not permitted um there will not be any uh any presentations from the other side as gandalf would say um uh digital yes corporeal yes uh incorporeal and ghostly no i i mean i think um uh for i like uh health reasons uh primarily we're going to have to uh uh uh say no to that i think um but um yeah wrote no probe no boots no service says torah martha that's exactly right that's exactly right um yeah yeah um yeah so anyway yeah emily i'm sorry i hope uh i hope that uh that doesn't uh doesn't get in the you know doesn't disturb too many people's plans for the moot uh but uh yeah yeah um anyway um uh yeah so definitely um uh definitely you know uh check us out uh signumuniversity.org events and you can find the registration for both moots um and uh we are we will be ready to go um i do not yet have um details um for um uh other moods we're still working on uh uh confirming uh the exact date uh for beimut but we're looking at the early part of november for beimut probably out in berkeley again at the same location berkeley california out of the same location that we did last time two years ago though it feels longer than that um but um yeah so that will probably be in november um and we are looking uh uh to do our first moot out in the mountain west region we're looking at uh a salt lake city moot um uh and i think we're we're talking about may perhaps early may uh for that um i am um sorely tempted to call that one ute moot because i could um but anyway um so we'll see but anyway yes lots more lots more uh moots coming yes trifle great excellent early may that's what i thought yeah exactly see uh trifle that's why it's so useful having uh having somebody there on the ground um to know about things like snow in the passes so that we shouldn't schedule it too early in the year i would not have known that um but um anyway all right so lots of fun coming up looking forward uh to uh to the rest of this year um but anyway let us jump back into the text so that we can remember where in the story we were somewhere in the first couple pages of the ring goes south when the ring has not yet quite gone south and what we've been focusing on is how gandalf and bilbo have been working together to keep frodo spirits from going south um because he has been struggling some with the reaction um which to be fair to him it's he just you know was proclaimed the ring bearer and volunteered to go on what looks like a more or less suicidal mission uh you know just within the hour so um he's in a complicated emotional place right now um so frodo turns to bilbo after gandalf leaves how long do you think i shall have here said frodo to bilbo when gandalf had gone oh i don't know i can't count days in rivendell said bilbo but quite long i should think we can have many a good talk what about helping me with my book and making a start on the next have you thought of an ending yes several and all are dark and unpleasant said frodo oh that won't do said bilbo books ought to have good endings how would this do and they all settle down and live together happily ever after it will do well if it ever comes to that said frodo ah said sam and where will they live that's what i often wonder okay um so remember of course there's a a delightful kind of call back to that moment at the end of the council when um when frodo is he has that brief moment of that brief surge of desire remember that we discussed uh to stay in rivendell with bilbo and we were talking about the the source of that was that uh was it was was that a ring temptation the way that it kind of came upon him very suddenly sort of made it sound like a ring temptation um but i was arguing at the time that i didn't think it sounded like that i don't think that's the way that the ring um operates in particular because the ring had always before tempted him to leave his friends right to abandon his friends and go off on his own so the ring tempting him to remain snugly in rivendell with bilbo just doesn't sound like the ring's style um not the kind of thing that the ring seems to tempt people to and so therefore um if it's not the ring that would seem to be frodo's own heart like his own like what he wants more than anything else right his idea of you know his brief sort of flash image of the positive alternative to um um going off on a suicidal mission right um uh so um and it is a very hobbitish desire uh cook i agree with you there and yeah hang on guys we'll talk about sam in a little bit because sam's comment is really interesting and i'm really looking forward to getting there but um we'll um we'll we'll get there we'll get there um uh yeah so there's this as i say a little kind of callback to that how long do you think i shall have here right gandalf had suggested that he does think he's already told frodo to cheer up right that he will be able to be here for a while he's not being rushed out right away um and uh and so he asks how long do you think i shall have and bilbo doesn't answer right his non-answer is really interesting i don't know i don't and at first it's like you might think that he's saying i don't know because i'm not sure exactly how long it's going to take the stout the scouts to come back and everything you know it might be you know might be only this long or it might be a little bit longer we can't be really sure but it turns out that's not at all what he says what he's saying right he says i don't know because i can't count days in rivendell i have no idea right it might be a short time who knows right um but quite long i should think in some vague way it will be long we can have many a good talk that's i guess how you measure things right uh you measure things you measure time at rivendell um by good talks right now um so let's talk about the time thing what evidence do we have that time works differently in rivendell there are many who think this right um that there is this sort of timelessness about rivendell we a great deal of attention is paid to this in lothlorian right where they lose track of time and they're going to have this whole conversation about how they cannot believe that as much time passed there as they you know the evidence of the world around them suggests is actually true right um but um do we see do we have reason to think that this so i'm so again we so we know this happened we know there's this whole time issue there in loth lorien is that true in rivendell as well i'm not 100 convinced that it's the same actually um and um it is true that it's often true in fairy um um it is certainly um barred just as you say a well-established thing um that folks go into ferry and come out in 100 years have passed right that kind of thing is definitely a very pronounced uh thing and so at the very least i would agree that bilbo's words kind of recall that in some sense right that having entered rivendell right having retired to rivendell which of course it's interesting when you think about it in the fairy context right because on the one hand retiring to rivendell seems like the most obvious natural thing in the world right um i mean what could be a more perfect retirement spot uh than rivendell um and yet at the same time it's very strange and i think it's important for us not to lose our grip on that not to lose the way in which it is it is still like crossing into fairy right um and we get some we we got some reminders of that with bilbo right and bilbo and his interaction with the elves and things like he and his cheek right of making uh making uh make you know writing lines about ar endell in the house of l rond and that kind of thing um he is among the elves now right he has sort of left the mortal world behind not really right he's still in the mortal world right rivendell itself is in the mortal world and yet again there's that he's um his retirement is of a slightly more um pronounced kind dramatic kind most people don't go off to ferry when they retire right and again bilbo doesn't exactly either right um it's not it's like fairy but it isn't fairy right the west is fairy when you depart and you take the straight road and you uh you leave the circles of the world and you go to where time really does actually pass differently and all that kind of thing it's um that's fairy um often the west is the real fairy um these things are just the memories of it remember the conversation we had about the last homely house right um the last homely house east of the sea it is like fairy it recalls fairy for the sake of the fairies right for the sake of the elves who are still east of the sea um but um anyway that's um but it's not a place for mortals right and rivendell isn't exactly a normal place for mortals either um and so again it's both very natural and also in that sense kind of unnatural and we can see bilbo's bill there is this sense in which bilbo has um left the world nancy says bilbo is in training for the west uh in some sense yes in some sense um um and yeah so i think that um um i think that what we're seeing here is bilbo's expression about his experience um and now that doesn't answer the question to say like oh well it's only bilbo's perception that time is different here well but that's kind of the point right um as uh one of you was just pointing out um forth dauntless as you were just pointing out um aragorn is going to say in that later conversation time doesn't actually stop anywhere um not even uh in lothlorian um but um but yeah it's um so it's always even in lefleurian it's a subjective experience it's it's a question of their subjective experience there um so that hardly explains it but here's my thing i don't think that's what bilbo's talking about here i don't think that bilbo is trying to say the passage of time is just different here again that's the experience they're going to have in loth lorien but i don't think that's what bilbo's getting at here when he says i can't count days in rivendell i think he's talking about his relationship with it his again he's left the mortal realm how do you normally count days why do you normally count days right i mean how does that work are there calendars in rivendell do they keep track of that kind of thing how do elves count days and that seems to me really kind of the essential thing right bilbo is immortal living among elves almost entirely i mean aragorn sometimes comes to visit here and he used to live here when he was a kid um but in general mortals don't live here only elves live here and so i think there are a couple things going on here one is um like do elves count days i don't think that elves count days why would they count days um i mean sometimes it seems like they can barely keep track of years um and and yes gil gallady i think that that's a big part of it that bilbo lives in bliss and so isn't counting the days just enjoying the existence yes exactly um exactly it's it's a place of rest cook when we are resting and not working we lose time yes how does he measure time he doesn't count days just uh good talks right he keeps track of good talks um there's a lot of time for good talks that's that's what his retirement in rivendell is about but i think this is also really a callback to the beginning of chapter three of the hobbit well chapter four i mean um uh when they're starting back on the road after their short rest in rivendell right and there's that famous paragraph about um you know it is a strange thing that days that are the times that are good to have and days that are good to spend um are um not worth talking about right are not much to talk about and soon over right whereas things that are like dangerous uncomfortable and palpitating um uh you know take uh uh you know may make a good story and take a deal of telling anyway right that reference to um that kind of memory of um that passage in the hobbit i think is what is kind of under bilbo's words here right um we were told that they passed some time it's not clear exactly how much you know like that time passed really quickly for them when they were at rest there in rivendell the very first time we ever met rivendell in the hobbit and so bilbo is still in that like that he's still in that narrative place which of course remember he is theoretically the narrator of the hobbit right so his own words about um how little there is to say about you know times that are good to have and days that are good to spend i think that that's what he's saying again right even perhaps you might even take this as an illusion to his own book right to his own words as narrator if we understand those you know again the book that we have right our copy of the hobbit is a later uh version of it um uh mediated by a by a a modern narrator so i mean it's at least a modern translator so you know it's hard to say whether we have like the exact words of bilbo there but nevertheless um again if we kind of think of the hobbit as bilbo's book which i think we should be as he is going to be segueing directly to talking about his book within this very same paragraph right and that's the other reason that i tend to go back to the hobbit there at the beginning of this rather than reading this in terms of him bilbo that is pointing to this sort of larger question about the flow of time uh in rivendell i think he's talking about his own experience and alluding back to what he already said um to what he said in the hobbit um yeah yeah and matt i absolutely agree that i'm that you know immortals um would have a different relation to time what is happening is the important thing um not when uh because there's always enough time for something and yes and so that's that's exactly what i'm um what i'm thinking about there um that um he is one of the things that he's kind of expressing here is that sense of being sort of swept up into an elvish view of time not just a view of time but like of life right of spending his life what matters is not the number of days right you don't count days if you're an elf because you have an almost inexhaustible supply of days but you do keep track of how many good talks you've had right um and uh and that's that's what that's why i think what i think is going on here so yeah i mean can we think about the preserving effect of of l ron's ring it's possible i mean i would say this i don't find anything in this that's inconsistent with that so if you want to think about this as you know that that there is an effect about i mean is elron's ring having an effect on rivendell yes it definitely is um what i'm not convinced of myself is that it has the same effect or the same kind of effect um that galadriel's does in lothlorien and we'll talk more about this a little bit later when we get there um but there are other particular reasons why i don't think elrond is doing the same things with his ring i don't think the l rings are automatic like i don't i don't think they're identical i know they're not identical because gandalf's ring is certainly not the same right and so therefore i have no reason to think uh that uh vilija and ninja are the same as each other right and have the same effects automatically i think that the effects that they have have a lot to do have some to do with the nature of the ring but have even more to do with the will of the wielder and what they're attempting to do and it seems to me that what elrond is attempting to do in rivendell is quite different than what galadriel is tending to do intending to do in la florian but we can't exactly compare and contrast those until we have galadriel in hand and we see more about her will and her intentions there um so um anyway that's that's why it is it is for those reasons that i myself do not believe that one of the effects that elrond has created with the exertion of the power of his ring in rivendell i do not believe that one of those effects is that same kind of time bubble effect that galadriel kurui has created in lothlorian and one of the reasons that i don't believe this is the way look at the role that rivendell as a place is serving here it's not only a refuge right that is think about how they are desperately racing for rivendell right trying to if they can just cross the border right by crossing the ford um then they'll be safe on the other side and of course frodo is safe on the other side even though he's only you know inches uh on the other side of the boundary indeed he does turn out to be safe right um so uh so that's that's one thing it's a it's it's a place of refuge but it's also a place of meeting right i mean like look at all these folks who just showed up right it's not even just that he chose this place as the venue uh you know for the get-together that he was throwing he says he didn't throw the get-together right everybody just came and showed up um there's a way in which the borders of although rivendell is a secret valley right and it's hidden uh you know its location is not generally known and yet um its borders seem more open it's uh it's it's it's doors are open more it is a meeting place it is a play like even denithor knows of imledris and knows that it's a place that you can go to seek for lore right to seek for the answer of questions um if they want so if they want to find somebody in middle earth who can tell them the meaning um of the dream riddle then uh uh you know that's that's that's where you go he doesn't send him to watford right uh denethor presumably knows about galadriel's existence i'd be a little surprised if he didn't um there must be lore uh in the in the lore of ministerith about galadriel's existence right and um alya eru that's exactly right the last homely house is a place of hospitality absolutely absolutely um a place of hospitality yes yes um it's um again it's not like a public inn right i mean it's it's it's still hidden it's still secret um it still is a magical valley but um but again it's um it has an outward focus right an open like metaphorically sort of open doors right figuratively open doors if you see what i mean by that whereas lothlorien is closed lothlorien is is sort of um it's it's just it's it's it's not a crossroads la florian um it's not a destination where people end up lots of times they get there right the the company will get there but it's strange and unusual when they get there um whereas again the only thing strange about everybody showing up for the council of elrond is that they've all showed up at the same time right with linked concerns who can all be benefited by having the uh the council together right um so um um yeah rachel you're absolutely right um uh that she's reminding me that of course um sometimes people do go to lothlorien um but if they do they often don't return um and few return unscathed that seems to be the uh the lore in gondor right um or at least we should hesitate there well we'll get to that we'll get to that before too long but anyway yes there's clearly mixed uh um uh mixed sentiments there um but um yeah so this is again why i am very reluctant i am no i'll go beyond that i am unwilling to assume that things work the same in rivendell and lothalorian the two places as places as we see them as they're presented in the story as they're kind of understood and related to by the countries around them and by um the uh you know by places where laura is still retained of the elder days like it's it's too different right they're too different from each other um their whole purpose and focus seems to be quite different and so therefore i cannot assume just simply assume that they work the same they might they could you know could elrond do that yes and again do we see anything that is actively inconsistent with it right i don't think i could disprove it i mean if if one of you were to draw a line in the sand and say i am 100 convinced that elrond through the power of his ring is changing the effect of the flow of time or even if you wanted to make the argument that that's one of the consequences of using one of the three rings in that way i don't think i could disprove it because there are many things that are said like this passage that are consistent with that perfectly consistent with that it just it doesn't feel right it doesn't seem to me to fit the larger pattern that we see in lothlorien and when i say it doesn't feel right um i'm not just trying to be like really squishy and evasive about that that's what i mean by that um what i'm talking about to kind of back up from it and use more proper english teacher language um it's about the pattern um it's about like my uh my inductive reasoning tells me no can't prove it but it tells me no it says to me coming like theorizing like this trying to come to conclusions like this it's all about finding a reading finding an answer that fits finding a key that fits the lock right you see all these things you make all these observations and you pull these observations together and then what reading can you have that'll that'll fit everything that you've seen as best as as it possibly can right and to me that's just that key doesn't doesn't fit the law it's not totally out there not at all not at all as they say i don't that's not a hill i'd want to die on and i don't think i could disprove it um but uh i definitely i myself don't believe it doesn't seem to me as i say to fit with what we see of rivendell as a whole um instead i think that bilbo is alluding back to the hobbit which he's about to come back to his book right um and he's pointing to the difference of his perspective and by the way remember what is on bilbo's mind what's the number one thing on bilbo's mind i think the number one thing on bilbo's mind is frodo and where in frodo's own state of mind right and i think that he is instead of answering the question how long do you think i shall have here there's no good answer to that right there's no good answer to that question not in the interest of cheering up frodo i mean let's try out some answers how long do you think i shall have here about a week week and a half right well that's depressing right i barely got here and i'm gonna have to leave again right away right um okay well maybe not um month it'll be about a month right any answer that he gives no matter how long the time is right it almost invites frodo to count down the days right he doesn't want frodo to count the days for him to count the days is to focus on what comes next instead he's inviting frodo into this elvish perspective on his time here i can't count days in rivendell you might almost paraphras yeah or you're thinking of exactly the same thing right that's just it you could almost paraphrase that sentence as frodo don't count the days in rivendell you will probably have a lot of them let's just think about that time not the days the time right the time that we have to spend together that time should be quite long and we can have many a good talk there is a there is a good season a happy season a restful season and let's be there let's be here let's focus on this let us seize that time again not those days let's not think of it as a time with this end period let's just focus on that i don't think that he's just saying like don't um uh um don't think of uh you know like you know he's just telling him to just merely trying to distract him i mean there's an element of distraction here but i think it's more than that um uh yeah admiral malcontent i agree um uh he says it's like a on a smaller scale but he says think of the people who feel like their weekend is over as soon as sunday starts and don't enjoy their whole weekend because of it yeah exactly um if you get too worried about the fact that you've got to go back to work or school the next day then you don't enjoy sunday in which case you get what one day it's like 50 of your weekend lost worrying about the next day yeah to some extent i think that that's exactly the kind of wisdom that bilbo is applying here to say hey um i don't know um how long you shall have but here's what i do know quite long and we can have many a good talk and then he suggests he suggests a project right um let's we have time to do something together right how what about helping me with my book and making a start on the next and that i think those are both really interesting suggestions what about helping me with my book and making a start on the next helping me with my book um i've got to think that i have two theories about what that might mean to frodo fred obviously knew all about bilbo's book right he lived with him and and uh uh you know talked to them you know bilbo kept it secret and it's it's bragging rights for mary that he once uh got a glimpse of bilbo's book right bilbo was was pretty secretive about that outside but not to frodo right not to frodo um so there are two things i think one it could be maybe frodo helped him with his book a lot in the past right maybe that was a thing that they did together that he often asked for um frodo's help in the older days in the happy days when they were still together in the shire and so him saying what about helping me with my book would be a delightful exactly bard a like old times viewing right um not just a nostalgia trip but a reconnection not only a reconnection with him personally but with again those days of peace and happiness it's almost like he's sort of setting a tone right you're going to be here for a while don't worry about exactly how long you're going to be here for a while we can have many talks so we'll we will get time together almost as if bilbo knows what was in frodo's heart right before he volunteered right um and we can even kind of pick back up where we were before right the old relationship that we had the old things we did together um the other theory is that if frodo didn't help him with his book before right then it would be a new thing right again frodo undoubtedly knew about bilbo's book and uncertainly read bilbo's book and had it read to him by bilbo but maybe bilbo didn't get frodo's help actively and so this gesture helping me with my book is a step to like a new level of intimacy exactly uh bar just what i was thinking you've grown up you're ready to help with this now um uh yes yes exactly um that would be kind of cool too right and that one either one i think would fit with the other half of the sentence and making a start on the next um let's think of this that is again and this is one of the main reasons why i don't think his main purpose is merely to distract frodo right merely to stop frodo thinking about the quest to come because of course he is talking about frodo's quest making a start on the next the next book your book right um help me finish my book so the end let's start your book all right let's let's do that transition thing let's let's during this time of peace that we will have together let's do this right of passage thing right and we can work on it together notice also how he's implicitly inviting frodo to look at his quest with the ring both his quest on the way to rivendell and his quest hereafter not as an ending but as a beginning right it's a start of a new book um yeah yeah um and yes admiral malcontent he does want frodo to see that he's already um he's already accomplished impressive deeds worthy of putting down in writing yes and you'll remember he said as much during the council right remember when he says defraudo there were whole chapters of stuff before you got here right he's already expressed his desire to frodo to get together um to work on uh to work on another book right to work on frodo's uh story um and um yes yes now matt you're right um there is also more hope in it too you don't start a book you can't finish it's a voicing of hope no omdiro says tell tolkien that you can't start a book you don't finish true enough but nevertheless i agree um if you know for a fact that there's no chance if you're finishing it uh it's pointless to start it right um and of course that's the the kind of somewhat dangerous gambit that bilbo makes at the end of the paragraph right have you thought of an ending i mean not only does he not avoid the idea of frodo's quest he absolutely challenges him to think about the ending of his story right um you know contemplate the end of your quest um have you thought of an ending as a question that's really really interesting um musical yeah it does frame frodo's quest in terms of his own um yes yes um kind of laying the two of them alongside each other right um with my book and a start on the next i also like the kind of ambiguity of the next the next book his next book my book the first is my book the other one is the next book it doesn't say my book in your book he doesn't say my first book and my next book it's kind of in between those two things right um and that seems to me to fit with the way in which he's inviting them to come into it together right um they're gonna be co-authoring this next book right frodo's book and again he openly challenges him to think about the ending of his quest have you thought of an ending now the other thing that's sort of more peculiar than that is the way that it's framed it makes it sound like a work of fiction doesn't it have you thought of an ending i mean like you might ask an author that who's writing a book right have you thought of an ending do you know how it's going to end how is frodo supposed to answer that question have you thought of an ending right i don't know how my story is going to end but notice the kind of um implied um the kind of implied agency that he gives to frodo there as if he speaks as if frodo does in fact have the power to determine the end of his story have you thought of an ending for your story because remember he does he does remember the emphasis that elrond laid at the end of the council on frodo's wheel and that's still i think what bilbo and gandalf both are focused on in this scene right it matters less what frodo may or may not be able to do it matters a very great deal what frodo chooses and where what direction his will is pointed in and so bilbo here openly challenges him invites him to think of an ending to his story because there is a sense i think in which frodo can determine the end of his story he can um what i mean by that is he can decide how his story is going to end not what happens not what happens he might not control that at all right um are they all going to die yeah but guess what they're all going to die anyway sooner or later that's not the question the question is how are they going to die right how what are they gonna do um what choice is frodo gonna make where is his will set as he sets out before he sets out um or to put it back into um to put it back into sam's language that we're not gonna get for several years um what kind of story is he gonna be in the events of the plot most of them almost all of them are not in his power right but what kind of story it is yeah jj whether he's the hero or the villain that's that's in his power yeah yeah yeah in uh it's in um uh uh in gollum's power too but later later um yeah yeah um uh wolfy i agree it does help frodo realize he's committed to something greater than he is it challenges him to think about his own kind of um attitude exactly drow snake what kind of story it is is almost exclusively in frodo's own power absolutely absolutely um and yes captain mo it is sam who is going to ask that question um of gollum right hey gollum do you want to be the hero or the villain um later later more later on this um um oh boy that's gonna be a good month or two isn't it ah sorry just looking forward with the fond anticipation of the couple months we will spend talking about the the uh the discussion on the stairs of kirathungal um anyway um yes yes ah yes rachel you're right uh gollum is of course not there to answer the question but anyway um but we're not talking about that right now but i do think that this is this seems to me the kind of direction that bilbo is very gently challenging frodo right have you thought of an ending yes several and all are dark and unpleasant said frodo oh that won't do said bilbo books ought to have good endings how would this do and they all settled down and lived happily and lived together happily ever after um he emphasizes how would this do i i just sorry i just i just always loved that how would this do and then he comes out with this as if he's like hang on hang on i've got something i've got an idea it's a little out there right but here's here's my idea how about and they all settled down and lived together happily ever after as if no one had ever said that before right but of course bilbo knows full again notice what he's talking about right he's talking about what kind of story it is is it the kind of story that ends like that that has that kind of ending that has a good ending in that way um dark and unpleasant that'll never do that'll never do so in part is he saying uh frodo don't dwell on the fact that you might die horribly it might cross out might put probably will like odds are you'll die horribly i mean like come on like from an om dear perspective there really does not seem like a very great chance of success here so again it could sound like he's merely saying no no no don't um don't think about the probable death think instead that maybe everything is going to be wonderful right um they all settle down and live happy to live together happily ever after it's going to be a happily ever after story right let's just think that yours might be a happily ever after story um but um yeah yeah um interesting matt says bilbo is turning this into a writing room an appropriate thing given that everyone here will be an author of an important work of hobbit literature it's true yes you have you have uh several uh future giants of uh the of of of hobbit literary history right here in the room right um yeah yeah um uh yeah draw snake i agree they need to get fin to go in the room right uh absolutely um uh pioneer center says apparently tolkien being a writer doesn't know how to write non-writers yeah well pippin doesn't exactly write but um but he collects right he's uh he's still a great patron of literature um uh yeah well okay so i agree with the important distinction between he doesn't say books ought to have happy endings he says books ought to have good endings and i agree that that's an important thing now his good ending example that he gives is a happily ever after one right and again i i don't get away from the fact that i do think on on one level right he is definitely saying to frodo make sure you keep your mind open to the fact that you might live right this is not nes this is not a suicide mission um elrond gandolf they wouldn't have sent you if there was no hope if there was no chance at all um there is chance of success and even of survival so don't just um don't give in to um you know do not allow your will to become focused on the notion that you are moving towards a dark and unpleasant end because that is the thing that is most calculated to turn him towards a dark and unpleasant end um we will have opportunities later to see that despair um despair is um a big deal right um when you abandon hope when you abandon both estelle and amdir um it um it doesn't go well it doesn't go well and i but i agree good endings are not necessarily the same as bad endings um hathalasta's good ending inspire hope um yes i think perhaps perhaps it does um and uh i do agree jj also that um uh good is highly dependent on one's point of view uh that's true that's true um you can look at um um i mean yeah jj you're talking about uh theoden's end right which is a really interesting example right jj just think of uh think of eowyn's words about that right when she hears of theoden's death right that is grievous um but it is good news beyond anything that we hoped for in the dark days right i mean she she can see both sides immediately right um but um uh but yes a good ending doesn't necessarily mean a happy ending and of course we're going to get that even at the very end of this book in a different way right gandalf is going to say i shall not say do not weep for not all tears are an evil right um not all endings are happy endings but they can still be good endings um so spoilers yeah true spoilers um um yeah yeah so agreed there's a wide difference between good ending and a happy ending and it's a good ending that bilbo insists upon and that seems to me very important that he is insisting upon that with frodo here right um don't turn yourself towards dark and unpleasant ends do not you are writing your own story you can't control everything that happens right you can't control the whole plot but you can determine your own story on what kind of story you are in don't let it be a dark and unpleasant one because that's not going to be a good ending it's not going to be a happy ending but it's not gonna be a good ending either right um there is clearly such a thing as a bad ending um as well as uh as well as a good ending um and so he comes out with the happily ever after suggestion right here's this as a a radical alternative to uh the dark and unpleasant one right what do you think of this it will do well if it ever comes to that said frodo i'm not 100 sure how to read frodo's response there um skeptical one could read it skeptically right it will do well if it ever comes to that right one could read it like that um is he beginning to turn freddo around right is frodo picking up what he's putting down at all maybe maybe um it will do well if it ever comes to that um he the if does not merely reject it right he's not scoffing at the happily ever after ending right if it comes down of course he's not uh just buying into it right being like yeah you're right we probably will live happily ever after right i mean that's obviously not his attitude there um i like to think that he's acknowledging the good ending right um if it ever comes to that it will do well right i don't think that he's um um again i don't think that he's instantly turned around um but it does sound like he's at least you know the if also does suggest the possibility right that there is uh that there is uh um that there is hope um admiral my content though i could buy that reading also that he's maybe unconvinced but doesn't want outright to say he doesn't believe bilbo um yes yes um nathan yeah i mean thinking about the morgal wound um as uh and what role it has to play in frodo's outlook here and now again like like it doesn't mean much right i mean he's just like yeah like okay so this ring is like spiritually uh radioactive it's uh prohibitively likely to bring its you know its bearer to his destruction um sauron who is so powerful that all of the armies of the good guys combined can't fight against him realistically i'm gonna take this radioactive thing and i'm gonna walk with probably not much backup um into mordor you know on my like whatever i mean look there's not much reason for am deer here right um again i don't think you even if you're not at all either physically or spiritually scarred by any recent experience you might feel a little glum at this moment right i mean he made the call he made the choice he walked into this with open eyes and he volunteered um but again i think it'd be pretty easy um it'd be pretty easy to uh be feeling pretty down about this thing um yeah i wonder matt that's a really good theory um matt says i usually hear people say if it comes to that when speaking of a bad thing um so is uh is bilbo and is that frodo rather engaging in a little hobbit tree here um kind of turning it around and being like well if it comes to that right um is he teasing bilbo in some ways it will do well if it ever comes to that um yeah cause you're right um if it comes to that normally is said about a uh um a bad thing coming um yeah i agree um it will do well if it ever comes to that um yeah right so it would be kind of like i mean not quite like being fully sarcastic about it matt right but you know something like well you know i guess in the worst case scenario right like that that kind of teasing uh of bilbo um yeah maybe maybe i don't think that frodo frodo does not seem to me depressed in this scene i think that's going too far um there is doubt not just his own doubt i mean there's doubt about his state of mind gandalf and bilbo are in doubt about his frame of mind he's like he could go either way he could spiral down into depression from where he is but i don't think he's there yet i think that's why both gandalf and bilbo have been intervening here so i don't think that we need to read him as like already completely guam and they're trying to pull him out of it completely again i think that bilbo perceives that he um you know frodo's will stands on the edge of a knife here right um and could go either way um yeah now kokovoten uh coco major minor that's really interesting um uh i don't know maybe uh cook is saying that he's read this as a a bit of clear-sighted foreseeing by frodo he is going to fail he is not going to have a happy ending i think yeah hang on a second let me come back to that in a second bart you're exactly right that's exactly why i don't think it's safe to read frodo here as already depressed because as you say depression involves a level of paralysis it's certainly associated with this sort of state of paralysis right and he is he is moving forward he has made the decision to move forward he's going to continue moving forward um i agree he's not depressed he's anxious yes but anyway cook back to your back to your point i think i disagree or i guess i'd say more gently i don't see enough evidence to conclude that he is foreseeing his own failure but we do have evidence to think that what foresight he has tells him this is not going to be a happily ever after story um remember he had that foreboding from chapter two of book one right now in part he was expressing his own anxiety his own um uh you know it was it was a it was a slightly pessimistic expression right for him to say this will be no there in back again journey right i go into danger um i go from danger into danger drawing it after me right so he was um uh to some extent that was just a um anxious and pessimistic assessment of his you know where he was going to be it's not going to be like bilbo's story but again i think that on other occasions we have seen him have that there's been the parallel with bilbo and yet i think his instinct right i go to lose a treasure not to gain one he is going from bag end and he's going to seek a mountain a lonely mountain even right you know with the treasure i mean there are all kinds of parallels some are parallels and some are anti-parallels though right and again he's perceived that from the beginning is his journey like bilbo's yes in some ways and we've seen from that same moment right while he's saying pessimistic things nevertheless his heart is rising at the thought you know there's that moment when he could almost have run out the door without his hat like bilbo had done way back then right so there is an uprising in his heart um you know an upsurge to want to follow bilbo right this this this hope this am dear that maybe it will be like bilbo's journey maybe we'll finish the one book and then we'll write another book which will be just like it right um full of hair breath escapes and um and not without sadness but um but in the end it had a good ending right had a good ending in every way both a good and a happy ending um but i agree cook i don't think from the beginning he's really believed that i think that he has seen if there's one thing that i think he has foreseen and foreseen clearly this is no treasure hunt this is not that kind of story it's not gonna be the same um if he has a foresight that i think is where his foresight is and so does he attach to that does he have the foresight that whatever happens he is not going to settle down and live together happily ever after right we know that at the end that's kind of where he's going to be right he tried to save the shire and it has been saved but not for me is where he's going to be at the end of the story as we get it here um now of course i still think that bilbo is going to have the last laugh right because although the book ends not with them settling down and living together happily ever after that's not gonna happen for frodo in the shire not in this book right but if you think about his story the story of his life settling down with bilbo and living together happily ever after is exactly what they're gonna do not in rivendell better right um so i think in the end bilbo is going to have the last laugh and bilbo's ending is exactly what's going to happen um bilbo has precisely called the ending of frodo's story um even if frodo doesn't think it and even if in a sense frodo doesn't even know it or feel it later on um but um yeah even elrond and galadriel will be there absolutely absolutely um yeah yeah um yeah yeah anyway um well let's get to sam what do you make of sam's interjection ah said sam and where will they live that's what i often wonder now especially having just been reflecting on you know the voyage to elven home and such um it's really fun to imagine this as a kind of foreshadowing of that right but i want to start with what does sam mean right what does sam eyeing up rivendell real estate yeah something like that uh they gave up bag end yes yes um good air that's that's that's a really important thing that's a really important thing um it's easy to see sam as kind of a wet blanket here right um how would this do and they all live down settle down and live together happily ever after it would do well if it ever comes to that and where will they live that's what i often wonder sounds a little puddle gum-ish doesn't it there at the end right like i mean does he sound like a bit of a wet blanket uh sam in that moment right and yet i think that you're extremely right to point out um that uh aired aird84 as you said he is assuming they're gonna live right even to worry about like well bag ends been sold and bag shot row won't be the same and uh and uh you know we'll have we'd have to find a house somewhere else and who knows where what's gonna come of my gaffer and i yeah okay that's kind of and i'm sorry to like make keep making chronicles of narnia references but like puddle gum is pretty much the ideal embodiment of that kind of attitude i mean it he is pedogum is one of the great archetypes in my mind like not just like a literary archetype but like a like a personality archetype i mean um puddleglum is uh uh yeah yeah um and i like him better yeah him and eeyore i agree um but um but of course puddleglum is even cooler i mean eor is cool don't get me wrong but um uh anyway anyway um but yes don't miss the fact that sam's own kind of gloomy questions about the future are premised upon their survival right i mean you know if only they should be so fortunate as to return to bag end and then have to figure out what to do with property sales and and and and real estate questions and um and where's the gaffer gonna uh you know grow his potatoes and stuff like that um um yeah yeah um yes cook says i think sam is really embracing the hope of a happy ending um he's a gardener and his idea of a happy ending is to get down to the business of making yourself a home growing things thinking about whether in seasons and neighbors and such things wondering where they're gonna live is his happy ending um yeah i can hear that i can i can see that again he he is he is heartily embracing i again all of that is premised on we're not gonna die in a ditch halfway to mordor right um uh no question um but um uh yeah yeah and i don't think it is true that frodo sold back end i don't think that this is their approach to frodo um but again so again i guess my question is um question is what is his frame of mind i don't think he's expressing hope i agree that his comments are founded upon hope it's like hope is taken for granted right the return is taken for the uh the doubtful and and gloomy questions about the future are premised upon the success of their journey and their personal survival right notice even they right like they're all gonna survive right but then where will they live right um and i agree that he's practical um i agree that he's practical but but like what's his why does he say it why does he say this um what is and again what's and i i i do agree some one of you was saying before um that uh the ah is a very expressive thing and i agree but what i'm not sure of is what it expresses um hathalos i could hear that i can see what you mean um that his comment is like he's not reading the room and he's kind of out of touch with what's going on here but here's the other thing that i would say um he's going on the quest too that is to say it is not only um he's the only other person in the room who is in the same similar anyway position to frodo bilbo is in the position of one who is in rivendell and going to stay there trying to help to manage the will and emotional state of frodo who's going to go out on the quest sam's going on the quest too right i don't think that sam stands on the edge of a knife in quite the same way that frodo does about where his will is going and what his will was oriented on um but um if one were to say to sam here dude sam we're trying to cheer up frodo here what are you doing sam might well respond to you by saying and what what about me right i'm going off on this journey too um yeah yeah um yeah exactly frodo is going on alone with his servant that's exactly right um yeah um is it just here's one of the main things that thinking about the big picture and i'm doing lots of remembering ahead tonight um but um one of the things i am going to be here's what this is on my short list i've got a lot of things i'm looking forward to in the remnant of exploring the word of the rings with you guys but here this is on my short list on my short list is being able to do a careful and longitudinal study of sam's relationship with hope because i have never been fully satisfied with anyone's treatment of sam's relationship with hope in the two towers and the return of the king it's very complicated and um i am i think this is a really interesting early data point on that question um and again it's complicated right as we said it's premised on hope there is a kind of um deer and estelle underlying this statement and yet or is this amdir with the lack of estelle if he's saying that he wonders where they will like one way to read this is you could read this as a complete downer right a complete downer right like yeah well even if we do can all come back and live happily ever after where will we live we don't even have a house anymore right you know low those sackville baggins has probably turned us out of bagshot row already and so you know even if everything turns out beautifully and they all settle down and live happily ever after they won't have a place to live right i mean you could read it like that like completely um uh completely or all the way through cook exactly i don't believe it i don't read it that way i don't think that that's true um yeah they're still quick hollow though music i doubt he's forgotten that sam right and so um sam's forgotten that so uh he seems to not accept that as a viable option um uh you're right crick hollow is in need of some minor repairs and it's true we can't assume that quick hollow still stands right last they knew the nosql were gonna be we're gonna be uh honing in on it so uh um uh yeah yeah and i agree jj crick hollow is pretty far from rosie um i mean yeah yeah like it might um it might it might as well be the moon right from a hobbiton standpoint um but um yeah i uh i i agree with people who are saying he is focused on practical forward planning we will see that again and again yes what i want to know though is what um what i want to know is what that tells us though by the way here's a little rule of mine well more of a guideline um i try never to use the word realist mostly because i find the word realist or realism almost perfectly useless as a word um whenever you hear someone in an argument say well i'm a realist they're saying nothing they've accomplished nothing at all never say that in an argument because everyone it's the question is what do you think reality is that's the question everybody thinks they're a realist the question every it's the question is what is reality right um i i mean there's there's everybody believes themselves to be in touch with reality everybody does i think almost everybody does um but uh um but yeah so if you say somebody is a realist um i don't know sometimes i think when people say that they're saying i agree with that person because i like to think of myself as a realist anyway um i am yeah so i i don't find that a useful word at all um because again the question is what does that person think reality is or to put it back into sam's terms from later what kind of story do you think you're in right um or to put it back into the way that i think bilbo is trying to frame it earlier on with have you thought of an ending what kind of story are you setting out to be in are you setting out to write you're going to write your autobiography right what kind of story is it going to be have you thought of an ending right and that is a wonderful thing to think isn't it um have you thought of an ending to your autobiography yet uh a fascinating question um yeah but anyway um yeah um okay um matt says does sam in this statement even assume he will have a voice in the choice of where they will live um that's going to be mr frodo's decision not his mary and pippen have their homes to return to um yes yes yes hard that's a good thought the have you thought of an ending to your autobiography yet made me think of two side-by-side graves marked baron and luthien yeah it's a good story it's a good story um yeah yeah um yes i agree arenas realist is very often used as a defense against accusations of being a pessimist very often by people who don't want to admit that they're pessimists but again it doesn't matter and the same the other way around um uh but anyway um anyway i just wanted to just wanted to to to mention that i that i don't find that a very useful word honestly like it's a word that seems to me to have been almost emptied of meaning um but um anyway okay i find it vestigial right now uh lupita magical realism quite different that's that's okay i have no problem with that uh absolutely it's time to end but i'm not sh i don't feel satisfied i don't feel satisfied that i really understand sam's mind here and i want to understand sam's mind it's okay i guess if i don't understand it completely because we still have a long way to go and you know a lot of observations to make in order to put together the full pattern of sam's mind so maybe we don't have enough data really to draw a firm conclusion yet perhaps i should satisfy myself with the observations i think that's what i'm going to have to do i'll have to come back to sam so we're going to put a big old watch on this watch sam's especially stamps sam is such an add-on commenter right you know um we often get his remarks about things he's gonna be like the one man statler in waldorf at various points in this in this journey um but um yeah what do we read there what is the pattern there we'll see if we can draw some firmer conclusions as we move forward and we'll remember this line um that's what i often wonder um anyway we'll return to this maybe next week maybe not next week um uh we're going to uh we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna keep moving forward anyway but i should stop it is getting late uh thank you everybody uh for joining me again today um it has uh been a lot of fun so good to be back it's always hard to be gone for two whole weeks in a row um i start going through withdrawals so great to get back into the text uh and discuss with you guys again um yeah we totally did a one slide absolutely one slide was a good day one slide is a good day come on one slide is a good day this is a what this is a six paragraph slide for crying out wow and i mean yikes um uh anyway all right exactly a full slide that's exactly it um yeah cool all right thanks everybody it's time for a field trip so stick around if you want to join us for our field trip uh if not thanks for joining us and i will see everybody next week all right so unfortunately hey good evening druidsfire unfortunately velour can't be with us tonight um so druids fire is going to join us here hang on a second i'm having a poor fool issues yeah okay there we go just caught it all right all right so i'm trying to remember where in middle earth we were oh yeah we're still we didn't make it to the next um no we did not make it to the next milestone so that's if i'm going to i'm just going to the map for a second go into the map to remind myself never mind let's just travel and then i'll go to the map okay so we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna um we're gonna stable master it from south bree right yes indeed to enact kurfur yes yes to enact kurfur up there in the wells of lang flood uh right well the villain flood no no it's in elder slade i'm sorry elder slade right yeah because we're finished with the wells of landfill um okay all right so we're going to head off so uh uh so yes kiyasa right quieressa here kiresa is the one that you should send a tell to to get invited into the raid here to join us on our explorations and yeah we're not going to explore enoch corfu but we're going to travel to there it's still our travel point we do have a lot of low levels with us this evening oh well that'll be fun they'll be very dead well that's yes uh it might be posthumous fun but it will be fun one way or the other uh so yeah kirasa k-y-r-e-s-s-a is the name all right and uh we have everybody all right so yes traveling overland in uh elder slade which is a level 130 region there is a version for level 20. it does scale but the the place we're going to will be very unfriendly yes we'll join you anon because i was adding people to 30. yes you'll be okay briefly but we are gonna go overland today because i if i'm remembering correctly my goal is to hit the next uh milestone more dwarfs places above the ground strangely enough yes yes we're going to have a look at that after uh coming up with some theories last time let's see where oh i had scrolled down and said i should have left it up there because where is it there it is corfu it's part of the uh attempts by standing stone to let lower level players uh experience end game story you know 14 years after the game launched and whatnot so um and it's basically set for level 20 on up and it does scale that's the story portions do so this area is level 20 it can be uh the story portion of the war of three peaks will scale based on the person going there okay so if you're coming here for the war of three peaks content okay all right well we went inside last time okay now i'm going to look at the map all right so yeah there were some other things to look at in the area here but i think we had did i decide to head up towards the towards gunda bad and then do worms graph at the end i believe you were talking about going to wormscroft and then swinging over but it's really up to you which way you want to go well that i think would be fairly emphatically unsafe but um that's all right okay all right so inside we saw a whole bunch of long beard dwarves led by prince dorin the unnumbered as yet yes prince stewart in the unnumbered i like that yes the son of thorin the third stonehill that's a great name during the unnumbered i mean um we don't know exactly when during the last uh no we don't i always honestly thought it was like something toward the end of days or something so there's another fortress on a hill over here why are they making all these separate fortresses so we were opining that perhaps this was something like a kind of a gatehouse like a sort of uh guest entry point but there's a bunch of them yeah i'm still fascinated by the fact that you can't see gundam from here because i can nope no i think i turned my resolution down at one point because i was having some kinds of issues oh look i'm working i'll pop in soon enough when you get closer yeah no still can't see it yeah not understanding the function so though the whole um kind of welcome zone concept that we were toying with last time um does at least help me understand a little bit better i think than i did before the um why they're building above ground because it seems to be actually focused on like greeting folks who are coming up along this way and if of course the aothead was here then when this was originally built they would have had neighbors right with whom they would have been communicating and trafficking right no yep exactly there would have been trade and the long beards were not the only uh dwarves up this way right in fact it's very possible that a lot of the stuff wasn't built by them right well that was my original theory i i think that i do think that the long beards might be squatters but okay let's i mean the current ones the ones that are in there now all right let's head down i don't need to jump down the cliff let's go by the road modestly less likely to get lost that way the way that the very imposing and very obvious fortifications not even fortifications because they're like um you know just arches and things right like walkways flying buttresses all over the place right and i'm thinking along the edge of the cliff right i mean they obviously built those up so as to be visible from below right it's like hey look the dwarves are here we are your neighbors which can be both a warning and a friendly reminder right like hey there's a dwarf kingdom right up here so like keep in mind about everything that it means that there's a dwarf kingdom right up here both it means this is our kingdom and stay out if you're not friendly but also i mean potentially something like open for business you know um you've gotta always live underground i think so yeah i think they need a reason to um i think they need a reason to um oh hey would you stop killing me super rude i'm talking about things over here um i think they need a reason to be above ground um yeah yeah um i also wish it weren't night can we get up there is that accessible uh yeah actually if you cross the river over here it seems to be a path up the hill okay all right oh gosh it's hard to see hard to see the dark stone castle in the dark i will give you a clue that this is the same sort of design as a place you haven't been to called scar home right yeah i i've heard people mention that that's the iron hills thing right uh no that's uh yarn fast um so yarn pass is like the red stuff and then scar hold is where we get the the lapis lazuli the really awesome blue stuff it's the same basic design here at scar hall and it looks like that other place in uh wells of wangfot what was it called um this was sunderground sundergrat yeah yeah it's basically the same sort of style yeah oh look there's even a door over here well that's nice look at that yeah and green stand looking like hollow the doorward up here so we can go in yeah he's not careful he'll wind up like hall of the doorway because there are bad guys inside oh yeah this place is a wreck so who's the oh anger room up here iron crown folks hmm that's interesting i was looking for angmarim relics but this is wasn't what i had in mind because i think right we've got the crystals which are very dwarvish light source here these are clear squatters yeah yeah probably relatively recently come they're all in the like quasi priestly garb of the angmarim the gray and reddish cowled robes and such there's so much of the angler that we're used to seeing up in angmar right but not any of the like uh hillman look there none of them yeah the triumphal or in their former distinct kin okay you know i've been saying for the past three weeks or anything right i'm not seeing much in the uh architecture that is very different we have some kind of right going on rasmar bloodroo what is that about a named person blood roo what does that even mean they rue the blood i don't know like rue the day i'm trying to figure out in what sense the word roo is being used well this okay it's kind of gross and bloody down here in the water yeah and it's all you know red and evil looking down here though you can see the arc i mean the architecture is no different it's just creepy red light i i surmise this is actually water rather than blood because it doesn't have the viscosity of blood but it still looks kind of gross any um meant to evoke from the loneliness yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no that's the other thing that i was thinking yeah roux is a um it's a plant that's the other thing that i was thinking of um that's why it struck me that it was using roux not as a verb but as a noun um so not as a you will rue the day but blood rue um could blood ruby an angerim herb maybe huh okay so i mean okay there's a named anger i'm doing something nasty down in the water architecturally speaking we don't i mean this is much more ruinous than the other of course so we don't get to see as much hard to tell what this used to be though notice the ceilings are so much lower all the way through from the entryway on right so obviously not made for tourists exactly it does not have the same kind of welcome hall sort of uh feel to it that um you got the screenshot of going to bed on the way out oh man i wasn't looking i was looking over at the comments i missed it um oh it looked actually pretty good that nice loading screen oh well um let's go by the road let's go back around by the road so this looks like what like uh an outpost much more functional with its hallways and floor plan i mean what of the floor plan we could still get to anyway looked much more functional oh there we go now i got it it looks so smooth it kind of reminds me of the dour handy sort of look that we had seen in erin lewin a little bit that diamond thing they've got going on it's a dominant motif it's really interesting okay well we'll get how many spires are there there's seven spires for seven fathers i don't know i'm still right at the edge some of it i don't trust that all the spires were coming in for me so i wanna get a little closer here the uh the lake is lovely with the island in the middle oh yeah i think there were some spires i wasn't seeing just want to come up to this vantage point up here okay oh man the spires look is is very interesting we've got look i can't even see the peaks behind it now the three peaks there are six of these diamonds okay now flanking on either side we have these constructions that are straight out of carton doom so those i've been looking i've been looking for angmarim's stuff and there they are on either side and yeah it does look like we we we get some scaffolding there repairing some of those spires you're right very clearly before maybe desecrating them right what's a practice scaffold so as more conveniently to desecrate the spires i suppose you'd have to yeah jj i was looking at that too we can see some evil tudor houses down there yeah we get the whole the whole thing you got the stripey you know uh little blaster well right i like that sort of evil quasi uh you know walls of constantinople thing going on anyway whoa i'm really struck by the smoothness of the walls which look like they're plastered maybe they're smooth stone but the smoothness of the stone and the windows this looks like i don't know what it looks like it doesn't look dwarven it doesn't look like a fortress it looks like all the windows make it look like um make it look like a great house like yeah like a palace like a like a sort of like a not exactly like a georgian palace but yeah i agree holder at least the at least the sun is rising so we're getting some daylight on the equation here um yeah and the color the light like beiges going on here and the spires i don't remember seeing anything like those spires just spires for the sake of it you know i don't recall seeing dwarven architecture being so elegant and not complicated like busy like you look at the the the ruins in the foreground or the ones behind us and there's all kinds of little you know febreze going on here even though it's all a nice elegant shape and design there's no yeah look at the gold inlay and everything yeah yeah yeah this is a much more basic honestly it kind of reminds me of uh the designs of muscle isolate on tatooine the whole adobe structure out in the desert right right no i think i see what you mean by that um and i find myself just surprised by the diamonds i don't know why but the the the dominance of that visual motif in the center of all of those powers maybe they are marble walls granite that seems likely of course close up we can see now you can see the blocks now it's not just smooth plaster maybe it is marble yeah um i don't recall dwarves using white and beige like the earth tone we've generally seen the darker and they're richer colors gray browns gold this is like i don't know mediterranean italian villa or something without the red slate roof really interesting are experiencing the joys of going to high areas yes yes getting murdered by the fauna yeah like the girls and earth getting murdered by moose one year by the moose yeah that was one of my favorite twitch moments ever um it had to be permanently archived oh yeah no that was that was wonderful and um uh one like my memorable experience when that doe chased me down the tunnel all the way into henneth yes i remember yeah yeah that was that was delightful um well the dread killed you when you just stepped into the area kronath yeah when when you're a low-level character and you die in a zone uh where the name under the mini-map is is red you'll get sent back to your milestone oh jj look at that interesting right jj yeah that's definitely that the same vibe yeah yeah looking at uh just it well it's going to be challenging for me to bring it over because i'm in full screen mode um i got you fan there you go um which chat for folks to check out so yeah that was the portatalo potala i quite frankly read is potato because potatoes cool but daylight came just in time for us to see it sure did but the diamonds are interesting to me because they're not entwined with something else like the shape of something in other architecture we've seen is the the shape of the overall section would be a diamond and you have designs within the diamond shape this is like the diamond is an applique onto some like in this plane facade yes exactly it's it's the part of it yes it's the starkness of just that one shape superimposed on the like white perhaps marble background um instead of being worked into so like coming now let's it's not going to hurt too much okay um so we do have some hostels here i'm working my way over towards uh this this other dwarvish building in the foreground basically and do a little comparison and contrast up here to zoodrum don zu ramdan right so if we never mind okay right so lots of shapes right lots of different kinds of shapes oh is the staple master here we made it to my first stable master hey that was the goal didn't even know i was there anyway but my point is not it's not just when you look at how much busier this is right even the smooth face surprised me because you don't you we don't usually see that we often see this right like the the layers of rock seems to be it's like one of the design elements right right yeah you know the the the dominant horizontal lines of the of the blocks and then you've got the vertical the vertical lines with the gold filigree and the other gold uh you know inlay lines crossing it over and you've got the shapes worked on top of that right the rings but then you've also got the hexagons right the prolonged hexagons there with the rings inside and then the knot work inside that um yeah definitely busy and shapes over shapes over shapes and this is like big honking wall with just one tiny little itty bitty shape like a blueberry right and the only thing that they have just like everything has been worked into the architecture right like the like yes you've got the filigree work on those you know like plasters coming down the side of the but they're part of the structure right yeah it's not just like glued on the only thing that's glued on here are these long hexagonal shapes potentially right those are sort of extra but they're not i don't understand it's still gold on dark bluish black the same as the background right it's not like we're just taking an outside thing and you know nailing it on it's just i just have not and whereas with the other more uh um long beardy um uh uh no that wasn't it long long beardish what was our adjective we had dour handy long beardish well it wasn't long beard ian i don't think so i think it was long beardish anyway long beardian it was long bearded okay um so in the more long bearding architecture like there in arid lewin that we were looking at for so long it tended to be cleaner much less busy than this it tended to be cleaner but like and geometric shapes but the geometric shapes were built into like a a really prominent you know pentagonal keystone or diamond keystone or something like that right um the uh the the sort of hex arches and that kind of thing um but um it also seems to be two separate styles going on here i mean the primary building structures are basically this dark gray with the gold overlay but along here these these little plinths that are this basically the scar hole design which have like the lapis lazuli and are more blue and gold rather than um just the gray and gold you see them where um they're generally the plinths along the border like where jj and i are bouncing and okay over here yeah these things hit this one it's more of a blue and deep ugly blue and the actual color of the stone oh right with the with the purple and stuff in the middle yeah yeah it's funny because i was going to say right i was going to say i do think that the walls of this keep here are bluish but they're not as blue as this i agree it kind of looks like the um you know these little pods pillars not even sure exactly what they are i guess um we're kind of placed here it's it's almost like they took the bluest of the rock and made it into these whereas like the slightly more grayish purplish less purely colorful one was used for the walls it could be a simple case where the blue uh rock was more plentiful to the east which is where scar hold is and so this is where like the veins and stuff taper off so they didn't have as much to build their primary structures out of it well there's obviously much more to see here but i have lots of friends up there too yeah i figured but i achieved my goal of getting to the next stable master anyway is there a milestone here too i don't want to recall throws it might be inside i don't see one on the mini map yeah it looks like there's a legendary items dude in there and a mailbox apparently yeah this is more of your outposty kind of thing so there really isn't anybody here yeah no i don't see uh yeah i would expect it if there were to be one to be outside i do like this crystal in the middle i mean that's a new design yeah coming out of a star huh anyway okay well we will explore here a little bit more thoroughly next time i just wanted to see if there was a milestone before we left um okay well that's fine we'll keep uh we we can keep we can stable up to here from the last place so we can at least get here through stables so all right oh i think we should say good night it's getting late here thank you everybody for joining me fun first glimpse of gundam bad here and we'll come back and look more and see what we can figure out have a with a more detailed survey next time awesome thank you guys very much and i will see you guys next week bye now bye you

Channel: Signum University

Views: 2,117

Rating: 5 out of 5

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Id: WLoqlY7BfWE

Length: 119min 41sec (7181 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 01 2021