[MUSIC] >> WELCOME TO "EWTN LIVE." I'M FATHER MITCH PACWA, AND THIS IS A PROGRAM WHERE WE BRING YOU GUESTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD. BEFORE WE GET TO OUR GUESTS, WHERE WE WILL BE DISCUSSING SOME VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES OF WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE TRULY JUST AND HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THE PERSONAL AND PUBLIC ASPECTS OF LIVING OUR FAITH, OUR RELIGIOUS PRACTICE AND HOW DO WE WORK TO CONVERT THE SECULAR LIBERAL IMITATIONS OF JUSTICE -- BEFORE WE GET TO THAT DISCUSSION, WE WANT TO TALK BRIEFLY WITH MR. JOHN ELSON, ABOUT A NEW PROGRAM YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS. JOHN, WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR US? >> I WANTED TO LET OUR AUDIENCE KNOW THAT ON TUESDAY, MARCH 16TH AT 5:30 P.M. EASTERN WE WILL BE PREMIERING A NEW EPISODE OF OUR THEY MIGHT BE SAINTS. THIS IS DEDICATED TO ALOYSIUS SCHWARTZ, KNOWN AS "FATHER AL." AND HE BEGAN HIS PRIESTHOOD IN 1957 WHEN THERE WAS TREMENDOUS POVERTY, STARVATION, TUBERCULOSIS WAS WIDESPREAD AND THERE WERE MANY ORPHANS. AND FATHER AL SAW THE PLIGHT OF THESE BOYS BECAUSE GIRLS AND DECIDED TO CREATE A BOYS TOWN AND A SEPARATE GIRLS TOWN WHERE HE COULD NOT ONLY GIVE THEM FOOD, SHELTER AND HEALTH CARE BUT GIVE THEM EDUCATION AND VOCATIONAL SKILLS TRAINING TO LIFT THEMSELVES OUT OF POVERTY. HE ALSO FOUNDED AT THAT TIME THE BROTHERS OF CHRIST AND THE SISTERS OF MARY. SO A STRONG SEED WAS PLANTED IN. WORD SPREAD AND HE WAS INVITED TO FORM SIMILAR COMMUNITIES IN THE PHILIPPINES WHICH HE DID AND THAT REALLY FLOURED BEAUTIFULLY AND YEARS LATER HE WAS FOUND TO FOUND SIMILAR BOYSTOWN AND GIRLS TOWN COMMUNITIES OUTSIDE OF MEXICO CITY. AND NOW THERE ARE 3300 YOUNG WOMEN DEVELOPED AND BEING RESCUED AND TRANSFORMED AND FATHER AL HAD A BEAUTIFUL THOUGHT. HE HAD JUST BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH ALS ALSO KNOWN AS LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE AS A NERVOUS SYSTEM DISEASE. AND HE REALIZED THOUGH HE COULD START THE MISSION OUTSIDE OF MEXICO CITY IT WOULD REMAIN AN UNFINISHED SYMPHONY BECAUSE OTHERS WOULD ARE TO COMPLETE IT. THAT WAS THE NAME OF A DOCUMENTARY WE PRODUCED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. SO FATHER AL HAS A BEAUTIFUL SPIRITUALITY AS WELL. HE SAID NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE TO PRAY FOR THE LIGHT TO SEE GOD'S WILL BUT WE HAVE TO PRAY FOR THE COURAGE TO DO GOD'S WILL. HE SAID I WANT TO DELIVER AS MANY SOULS TO GOD AS THERE ARE WILDFLOWERS IN THE FIELD. SO WE CELEBRATE FATHER AL AND HIS WORLD VILLAGES APOSTOLATE WHICH CONTINUES TO MINISTER TO VERY DESPERATE CHILDREN IN NOW SEVEN COUNTRIES IN 14 FACILITIES AND WE EMBRACE THIS CHAMPION OF THE WORKS OF MERCY AND WE PRAY THAT OUR AUDIENCE WILL BE TOUCHED AND INSPIRED TO MINISTER TO THOSE WHO ARE EITHER BODILY OR SPIRITUALLY POOR IN THEIR OWN AREAS. >> WE DID A PROGRAM ABOUT HIM AND THIS WORK A FEW YEARS AGO AND IT IS REALLY REMARKABLE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE SO I ENCOURAGE OUR AUDIENCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. THANK YOU, JOHN, FOR LETTING US KNOW ABOUT THIS. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL SEE THAT. AND WE WILL BE BACK IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES WITH TONIGHT'S GUEST SO PLEASE STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> WELCOME BACK. TONIGHT'S GUEST IS A GREAT FRIEND OF OUR NETWORK. HE HAS BEEN DOING MANY SHOWS FOR MANY YEARS AND A PERSONAL FRIEND AS WELL. AND, OF COURSE, OUR VIEWERS KNOW HIM. HE IS THE AUTHOR OF A LOT OF BOOKS AND HIS NEWEST ONE WHICH HE COAUTHORED WITH BRANDON MCGINLEY EXPOSE'S FOUNDATIONAL LIE OF MODERN SECULAR LIBERAL CULTURE THAT SAYS RELIGION IS MERELY A PRIVATE MATTER. PERSONALLY ENGAGING BUT SOCIALLY IRRELEVANT. THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED "IT IS RIGHT AND JUST: WHY THE FUTURE OF CIVILIZATION DEPENDS ON TRUE RELIGION." SO PLEASE WELCOME DR. SCOTT HAHN. DR. SCOTT, HOW THE HEAVEN ARE YOU? >> WE SURE ARE DOING WELL UP HERE IN STEUBENVILLE, OHIO. KIMBERLY PASSES ALONG HER GREET AND GOES ALSO ASKS TO US ASK OUR VIEWERS TO PRAY FOR OUR SON JEREMIAH SCHEDULED TO BE ORDAINED TO THE PRIESTHOOD FOR OUR DIOCESE ON MAY 21 SO PLEASE KEEP HIM IN YOUR PRAYERS. >> WELL, IN ADDITION TO HAVING A SON WHO IS BECOMING A PRIEST IN A FEW WEEKS -- YEAH, JUSTIFY WEEKS NOW -- YOU ALSO HAVE 20 GRANDKIDS. >> YES. FROM THE FIRST THREE OUT OF OUR SIX KIDS. MICHAEL, GABRIEL AND HANNA. MICHAEL HAS 7 KIDS, A PROFESSOR AT MOUNT ST. MARY'S SEMINARY. GABRIEL HAS NINE KIDS. HE'S A CPA IN DENVER. AND HANNA HAS FOUR KIDS AND HER HUSBAND IS THE DEAN AT CHRISTENDOM SO I'M GOING TO GET TO SEE THEM THIS WEEKEND AND I'M EXCITING. JERRY AND JOE ARE NEXT. JERRY IS SCHEDULED IN MAY AND JOE IS SCHEDULED FOR NEXT YEAR, 2022. AND OUR DAVID IS JUST GRADUATING FROM FRANCISCAN UNIVERSITY THIS MAY WHERE ALL OF HIS OLDER SIBLINGS HAVE GONE THROUGH AS WELL. SO WE HAVE SO MUCH TO BE GRATEFUL FOR. >> YEAH. I'D LIKE TO THINK -- WE HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER OVER 30 YEARS. YOU'RE A GRANDPA. I FEEL LIKE AN OLDER GRANDPA, AFTER HAVING DONE THE WEDDING OF A YOUNG LADY WHOSE PARENTS I HAD MARRIED WHOSE FATHER WAS ONE OF MY STUDENTS. THIS IS WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE A PRIESTLY GRANDPA. >> THAT IS HAPPENING HERE. >> IT'S OUR AGE. SO THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BOOK. BECAUSE WE HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT JUSTICE. AND THEY QUOTE POPE ST. PAUL VI "IF YOU WANT PEACE, SEEK JUSTICE." THEY DON'T CITE HIM BUT THEY SAY THAT. AND THEY GO AROUND DESTROYING PROPERTY AND SOMETIMES TAKING LIVES IN THE NAME OF DOING THIS. NOW, THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU MEAN BY JUSTICE. >> THAT'S FOR SURE. >> YEAH. >> YOU ARE TRYING TO BRING THIS BACK. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW RECENTLY THAT ON THE CANCEL LIST IS NOT ONLY DR. SEUSS WHO IS BEING PUT ON THE CANCELLATION LIST BUT SO IS ARISTOTLE. AND I SUSPECT THAT HE IS BEING CANCELLED BECAUSE HE DESCRIBES ETHICS AND JUSTICE. TELL US HOW ALL OF THIS PULLS TOGETHER IN TERMS OF OUR FAITH IN JUSTICE AND OUR UNDERSTANDING OF JUSTICE IN THE WORLD. >> WELL, OKAY. FIRST OF ALL, AGAIN, THANKS FOR INVITING ME TO BE WITH YOU. SECOND, YOU'VE ASKED THE 64,000-DOLLAR QUESTION, AND YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON THE PULSE. BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AS CATHOLICS LIVING IN AMERICA -- OR ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD FOR THAT MATTER -- SO TO BALANCE WHAT PAUL REMINDED THE TRIP BEANS OF IN TRIP I UNDERSTAND 3:20, OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN -- "POLITEUMA," THE TECHNICAL WORD -- AND HE WAS NOT DENYING THE PHILIPPIANS WERE CITIZENS OF PHILIPPI BUT REMINDING US WE HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP AND WE HAVE TO BALANCE THE NATURAL AND SUPERNATURAL. WHEN YOU LOOK AT ARE ARISTOTLE YOU CAN SEE HOW THE NATURAL ORDER LEADS US TO THE NATURAL LAW AND AT THE HEIGHT OF THE VIRTUOUS IS JUSTICE. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU ALSO HAVE THE SUPERNATURAL GRACE WHERE YOU HAVE AN ELEVATED JUSTICE THAT IS NOTHING LESS THAN JESUS' OWN DIVINE SONSHIP SO THESE ARE DISTINCT AND SEPARATELY UNITED AND THEY SHOULD BE IN OUR HEARTS, OUR HOMES AND OUR LIVES, NOT JUST PRIVATELY BUT ALSO PUBLICLY AND THAT OF COURSE IS THE CHALLENGE. AND SO WHAT I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE, JUST LIKE TREASURY AGENTS FORGOT TO RECOGNIZE THE COUNTERFEITS ESPECIALLY THE CLOSE COUNTERFEITS FROM THE REAL CURRENCY WE HAVE TO DISCERN SO MUCH OF WHAT IS BANTED ABOUT AS JUSTICE IS A COUNTERFEIT FORM OF JUSTICE. AND SO WE'VE GOT TO STEP BACK AND TAKE STOCK OF WHO WE ARE AS CATHOLICS FIRST LIVING IN AMERICA SECOND, GRATEFUL FOR OUR COUNTRY, EVEN MORE GRATEFUL FOR OUR HEAVENLY HOMELAND AND AS A RESULT OF THIS DISCERNMENT RECOGNIZE, YOU KNOW, THAT IT IS RIGHT AND JUST. THE TITLE OF MY NEW BOOK IS NOT JUST A LINE THAT IS CONVENIENTLY LIFTED FROM THE LITURGY. IT GOES RIGHT TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT IS JUST AND RIGHT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THAT RIGHT AND JUST IMPLIES IT WOULD BE WRONG AND UNJUST TO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE GOD, TO NOT GIVE HIM THANKS, TO NOT GIVE HIM PRAISE. AND ULTIMATELY WHAT I WANT TO LEAD OUR READERS TO WITH BRANDON MCGINLEY'S HELP, MY COAUTHOR, IS TO RECOGNIZE CATHOLICISM AS FAITH AND RELIGION IS UNIQUE IN TWO WAYS. SECOND, IT IS CAPABLE OF FORMING CIVILIZATIONS MORE THAN ANY OTHER RELIGION IN THE HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACE. FIRSTLY, IT IS ALSO CAPABLE OF FORMING SAINTS. AND IT DOESN'T MAKE IT EASY THROUGH THE SACRAMENT AND THE INTERCESSION OF THE SAINTS AND OUR LADY. IT MAKES IT POSSIBLE. THAT WHICH WOULD OTHERWISE BE HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE, TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, TO GROW UP AND BECOME SAINTS THAT IS REALLY THE ONLY THING FOR WHICH WE WERE MADE. AND YET ALONG THE WAY, TO LOVE OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD COORDINATES THE VERTICAL, THE DIVINE WITH THE HORIZONTAL BUT IT ISN'T THE CASE THAT OH, THE VERTICAL IS JUST PERSONAL. IT'S PRIVATE. IT'S INDIVIDUAL. WHEREAS, THE VERTICAL, THE HORIZONTAL, THAT'S PUBLIC. RELIGION HAS ALWAYS BEEN A FORM OF JUSTICE AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SAY NINE OUT OF 10 CATHOLICS FORGET. YOU CAN GO TO THE CATECHISM AND FIND OUT THAT RELIGION IS NOT ONLY A FORM OF JUSTICE IN THE NATURAL LAW. IT IS ALSO THE HIGHEST FORM OF JUSTICE. WHAT IS THAT? WELL, IT'S A REMINDER THAT RELIGION IS NOT JUST PERSONAL AND PRIVATE. IT'S PUBLIC AND IT'S SOCIAL. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT EVEN IN ARISTOTLE IN HIS COMMENTARY ON THE ATHENIAN LAW AND IN THINGS AND IN PLATO AND IN CICERO, APART FROM THE BIBLICAL SOURCES, WE CAN FIND AN AWARENESS IN THE NATURAL LAW THAT JUSTICE IS THE HIGHEST OF THE FOUR CARDINAL VIRTUES WE HAVE PRUDENCE, TEMPERANCE, FORTITUDE AND JUSTICE. BUT THERE ARE THREE LEVELS OF JUSTICE. THE LOWEST LEVEL IS WHAT WE'RE MOST FAMILIAR WITH. THAT IS COMMUNICATIVE, TRANSACTIONAL, COMMERCIAL -- YOU PAY FOR YOUR GROCERIES BEFORE YOU LEAVE KROGER'S. THE SECOND LEVEL IS WHAT EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT BUT VERY FEW PEOPLE UNDERSTAND AND THAT IS DISTRIBUTIVE JUSTICE. EQUITY, FAIRNESS, WHAT WE OWE FOR THE COMMON GOOD OUT INTEREST IN SOCIETY THAT GOES BEYOND JUST TRANSACTIONS. BUT THE HIGHEST FORM OF JUSTICE -- AND AGAIN THIS WAS RECOGNIZED BY CICERO, ARE THESE TRANSCENDENT RELATIONS WHERE YOU CAN'T REPAY OTHERS WHAT THEY GAVE YOU, BEGINNING WITH YOUR PARENTS. YOU CAN'T GIVE THEM LIFE SO YOU HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER. LIKEWISE THE COMMON GOOD PROVIDED TO US BY OUR COUNTRIES. IT CALLS FOR THE VIRTUE OF PATRIOTISM WHICH IS A FORM OF JUSTICE THAT IS IRREPARABLE BECAUSE YOU CAN NEVER REPAY YOUR COUNTRY FOR ALL OF THE THINGS THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU. THE HIGHEST FORM OF JUSTICE IS RELIGIO WHERE YOU OFFER SACRIFICE TO GOD, TO GOD ALONE, AND IT IS RIGHT AND JUSTICE TO DO SO PERSONALLY BUT ALSO SOCIALLY, PRIVATELY, INTERIORLY, STARTING FROM OUR HEART, AND MOVING TO THE BODY. AND THEN THE SOCIAL HE BODY AS WELL. IN SOME WAYS THIS STUFF SOUNDS LIKE IN NOT GOING TO SAY, NOVELTY, BUT IT'S NOT. THE CATECHISM IS VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS THE CONSTANT TEACHING OF THE CHURCH BE. THAT HUMAN BEINGS INDIVIDUALLY AND SOCIALLY OWE TO GOD THANKS AND PRAISE AND WORSHIP ESPECIALLY SACRIFICE. SO THIS IS WHERE WE DISCOVER THE UNIQUE POWER OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH TO FORM CIVILIZATIONS LIKE CHRISTENDOM AND WHATEVER ELSE GOD MIGHT HAVE IN STORE FOR US IN THE FUTURE. I THINK A LOT OF TIMES, WE SORT OF FORGET ABOUT THAT OR WE SUPPRESS THE THOUGHT THAT OUR FAITH COULD EVER TRANSFORM THE CULTURE BECAUSE OUR FAITH DOES A GOOD JOB OF HELPING US TO SURVEY THE TOXINS OF SECULARIZATION THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING ALL AROUND US MUCH FASTER AND FAR WORSE THAN ANYONE EXPECTED. BUT I THINK THE REMINDER OF THIS BOOK IS, AS THE BAD NEWS GETS WORSE FASTER AND DARKER THAN WE EXPECTED SO WE CAN DISCOVER THAT THE GOOD NEWS IS INFINITELY GREATER THAN THE BAD NEWS IS BAD. SO OFTEN ONLY WHEN IT GETS REALLY DARK DO YOU RECOGNIZE HOW MUCH YOU NEED THE LIGHT BUT HOW MUCH CHRIST PROVIDES MORE LIGHT THAN WE REALIZED. AND SO I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER IF WE CAN GET PAST THE POINT WHERE WE'RE PROFESSING ALL 12 ARTICLES OF THE CREED BUT WE'RE LOOKING, WE'RE CONTEMPLATING THOSE ARTICLES AND SEEING THESE ARE SACRED MYSTERIES. THESE ARE NOT ONLY BEAUTIFUL; THEY'RE POWERFUL, TO TRANSFORM SINNERS INTO SAINTS AND ALSO DECEDENT SECULARIZED POST CHRISTIAN CULTURES INTO SOMETHING THAT WOULD HONOR THE TRUTH OF THE TRUE RELIGION, THE KINGSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST. BUT I THINK WE TELL OURSELVES, WE CAN'T GO THERE. BUT WE CAN. >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU BRING UP THANKS HELPS TO GET A SENSE OF OUR TASK IS THE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AND YOU TALK ABOUT -- IT'S IN THE BOOK. I'M NOT SURPRISED YOU WOULD LIKE THAT. >> SINCE YOU LIKE IT SO WELL, TELL US, WHY DID YOU BRING UP -- WHAT IS THE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AND WHY DID YOU BRING IT UP IN THE CONTEXT OF CATHOLICS LIVING IN THIS INCREASINGLY SECULAR AND MATERIALISTIC SOCIETY? >> WELL, IT'S NEAR THE END OF THE BOOK AND I THINK IT DOES A LOT TO ILLUMINATE EVERYTHING THAT HAS COME BEFORE AND THE CONCLUSIONS THAT WE'RE REACHING. IT WAS AUGUST 23, 1973 WHEN TWO BANK ROBBERS IN SWEDEN BURST INTO THE BANK AND TOOK FOUR HOSTAGES FOR FIVE DAYS AND THE PRIME MINISTER INTERVENES AND THEY SEND IN TEARGAS AND THEY EXTRACT THE BANK ROBBERS AND LIBERATE THE HOSTAGES. BUT IN THE INTERVIEWS THAT FOLLOWED AND THE COURTROOM TRIAL, IT WAS KIND OF A SHOCK TO THE WORLD TO HEAR THE CAPTORS, THE HOSTAGES DEFENDING THE BANK ROBBERS. AND DAY AFTER DAY, THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT WHY WASN'T A HELICOPTER PROVIDED OR MONEY AND THIS IS HOW THE TERM STOCKHOLM SYNDROME ENTERED INTO THE ENGLISH VOCABULARY BECAUSE PSYCHIATRISTS BEGAN TO RECOGNIZE THAT INTERNALIZING THE VALUES OF YOUR CAPTORS, YOUR TORMENTERS IS A COPING MECHANISM. IT'S A WAY OF DEALING WITH ALL OF THE PRESSURE. SO YOU BEGIN TO SEE THIS IS NOT ONLY APPLICABLE IN SWEDEN BACK IN '73. IT'S APPLICABLE TO OUR CULTURE TODAY. BECAUSE I THINK CATHOLICS WHO LIVE IN AMERICA WANT TO GO ALONG AND GET ALONG AND ALL OF THAT. AND SO UNCONSCIOUSLY, WE INTERNALIZE THE VALUES OF OUR CULTURE IN ORDER TO FIT IN. AND WE EXPRESS DISSATISFACTION BORDERING ON ANGER AGAINST CATHOLIC WHOSE WOULD SAY, WAIT, YOU KNOW, AS IMPORTANT AS IT IS TO GO ALONG, TO GET ALONG, WE ALSO HAVE TO BE FAITHFUL TO THE GREAT COMMISSION WHICH SAYS ALL AUTHORITY ON HEAVEN AND EARTH HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME NOT AT THE END OF TIME BUT AS HE ASCENDS INTO HEAVEN, GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS NOT JUST WITHIN NATIONS PERSONALLY AND PRIVATELY, AS AWESOME AS THAT IS BUT PUBLICLY AND SOCIALLY EXTEND THE CROWN RIGHTS OF KING JESUS. IT'S LIKE DON'T SAY THAT, AT LEAST NOT IN PUBLIC. BECAUSE OUR CULTURE SEES RELIGION AT BEST AS IRRELEVANT AND MORE ACCURATELY AS A THREAT, AS A POTENTIAL DANGER, ESPECIALLY IF PEOPLE DRAG IT OUT INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE AND USE IT IN THEIR SOCIAL DISCOURSE. AND WE HAVE TO BE SAVVY BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO BE SO STEALTHFUL AS TO KEEP OUR RELIGION AND OUR MORALITY SO PRIVATE THAT WE DON'T EVEN IMPOSE IT UPON OURSELVES MUCH LESS OTHER PEOPLE. >> I RECALL IN THIS LIGHT, AS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AFFECTING AMERICAN CATHOLICS THAT SENATOR TED KENNEDY HAD BROUGHT THREE THEOLOGIANS WHO GAVE AND HAD SOME TIME AT HIS RETREAT WHERE HE WAS TALKING TO THEM ABOUT HOW HE CAN SUPPORT ABORTION LEGISLATION AND STILL BE A CATHOLIC. AND THEY CAME UP WITH A WAY. AND SINCE THAT POINT, YOU SEE A LOT OF CATHOLIC POLITICIANS WHO -- I DON'T EVEN THINK INVESTIGATE THOSE REASONS. THEY SIMPLY ASSUME, WELL, TED KENNEDY DID ALL OF THAT WITH THE THEOLOGIANS SO IT'S OKAY FOR ME TO SUPPORT ABORTION AND SUPPORT MY FELLOW PRO-ABORTION POLITICIANS WHO ARE ALSO PRO EUTHANASIA, PRO GETTING RID OF THE USELESS. AND THIS HAS INCREASED. NOW, PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR POLITICIANS WITH NO CONCERN FOR THEIR MORAL STANCE OF JUSTICE TOWARDS THE WEAKEST MEMBERS OF SOCIETY, CHILDREN IN THE WOMB. ESPECIALLY GIRL CHILDREN WHO ARE MORE TARGETED THAN BOY CHILDREN, OR CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES. JUST LAST YEAR I THINK ICELAND BOASTED THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY DOWN SYNDROME CHILDREN ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY ABORTED THEM ALL. THEY WERE BOASTING ABOUT THIS. AND THEY ARE IMPOVERISHED BY NOT HAVING THEM. BECAUSE OF THE INJUSTICE THAT TAKING CARE OF THEM WOULD ENRICH THEM, AND THEY IMPOVERISH THEMSELVES BY NOT TAKING CARE. THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF HOW NOW CATHOLICS ARE SUPPORTING THAT THIS IS A GOOD WAY TO THINK, AND THAT'S -- JUST ONE EXAMPLE AMONG MANY OF STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AMONG CATHOLIC POLITICIANS. >> I MEAN I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SEE A THOUSAND PERCENT OBVIOUSLY. SPIRITUAL STOCKHOLM SYNDROME HAS TAKEN HOLD IN THE U.S. AND THROUGHOUT THE WEST. WE FORGET THAT IN VATICAN II AND THE MAGISTERIUM MADE IT CLEAR ABORTION IS AN UNSPEAKABLE BOMB NATION, LET ALONE TARGETING THE UNFIRM FOR THOSE IN NEED OF HELP SUCH AS -- IN ICELAND, DID YOU SAY? >> YEAH, ICELAND. >> THAT'S JUST HORRIFIC. BUT I THINK YOU EXEMPLIFY SOMETHING WE ALL STRUGGLE WITH. THAT IS, WE HAVE TO HARNESS THE ANGER AND AVOID THAT KIND OF EXPLOSIVE RAGE THAT WOULD EMPOWER OUR OPPONENTS. WE HAVE TO HARNESS THE ANGER IN A WAY THAT LEADS US TO BE MORE DETACHED, TO RECOGNIZE THE LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST BUT TO RAISE OUR VOICES IN A MEASURED WAY TO STATE THE OBVIOUS AND POINT OUT HOW IT HAS BEEN HIDING IN PLAIN VIEW. BUT THE SPIRITUAL STOCKHOLM SYNDROME THAT TAKES HOLD DOESN'T JUST SILENCE US, IT MAKES US COMPLICIT AS YOU WERE POINTING OUT. AND NOT JUST OUR POLITICIANS BUT EVEN OUR THEOLOGIANS AND OUR PRIESTS -- GOING BACK TONIGHT '60S AND '70S, ONE OF YOUR CONFERRERS, WAS LEADING THE CHARGE TO BRING MORAL RELATIVISM INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE AND INTO LAW AS WELL, AND THEN OF COURSE HE WAS REMOVED FROM CONGRESS. BUT THE THEOLOGIANS WERE COMPLICIT AS WELL AS THE POLITICIANS AND THE FAMOUS WILL YOU -- I WAS ALLUDING TO THIS A FEW MOMENTS AGO, MARIO CUOMO'S SPEECH IN NOTRE DAME WHERE HE IS INSISTING HIS RELIGION IS PRIVATE AND SO WHEN HE DOESN'T IMPOSE IT ON OTHER PEOPLE. FIRST OF ALL IT'S NOT YOUR RELIGION OR OURS. IT ISN'T OUR MORALITY. IT IS THE MORAL TRUTH THAT COMES FROM THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE WHO LOVES US MORE THAN WE LOVE OURSELVES AND WHO ONLY LEGISLATES WHAT GOD SEES IN US. THE IDEA IS TO SEE IN A PRESIDENT THAT CLAIMS TO BE DEVOUT CATHOLIC, SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN THAT THE EXTRA MILE WHO SAYS I AM A DEVOUT CATHOLIC BUT I WOULDN'T IMPOSE THAT MORALITY ON OTHER PEOPLE. HE DOESN'T IMPOSE IT UPON HIMSELF, THE WAY HE SPEAKS AND THINKS AND VOTES AND SO ON. THAT'S WHO WE ARE. SO THE SPIRITUAL STOCKHOLM SYNDROME LEADS US TO RECOGNIZE THAT VATICAN II'S CALL FOR LAYPEOPLE TO SANCTIFY THE TEMPORAL ORDER HAS JUST BEEN FORGOTTEN. AT MOST WE MIGHT WANT TO SANITIZE THAT. BUT SANITIZING THE TEMPORAL ORDER IS NOT WHAT WE'RE CALLED TO DO. AND THE SACRAMENTS EMPOWER US TO GO FORTH AND TO SANCTIFY OURSELVES AND OUR NEIGHBORS AND ALL OF THAT. BUT PEOPLE THINK OH, IT'S INAPPROPRIATE, IT'S NOT FITTING. BANISH THE THOUGHT, THAT ILLICIT THOUGHT OF BRINGING MORE RELIGION. AND AGAIN IT'S NOT OUR RELIGION. IT IS THE REALITY OF THIS WORLD SINCE JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION AND ASCEND AS KING OF KINGS. THESE AREN'T CATHOLIC TALKING POINTS. THIS IS NOT A PRIVATE ETHIC I MIGHT CHOOSE TO IMPOSE ON MYSELF BUT HARDLY ANYONE ELSE. WHEN YOU THINK I'M HERE TO BECOME A SAINT AND I WANT TO BE HOLY BUT MY WIFE -- NO. I WANT MY WIFE TO BE HOLY. BUT NOT OUR KIDS? WELL, THAT'S ABSURD. NO. I WANT MY WIFE AND MY KIDS TO BE HOLY BUT NOT OUR NEIGHBORS. WELL, WHERE DO WE STOP? WE WANT OUR NEIGHBORS TO ALSO HEAR THE GOSPEL. BUT NOT THE TOWN OF STEUBINVILLE. WE WANT OUR STATE BUT NOT THE STATE? NO, WE WANT OHIO TO HEAR THE GOSPEL. BUT NOT THE OTHER 49? WE WANT ALL 50 NOT JUST OUR COUNTRY BUT ALL COUNTRIES, MAKE DISCIPLES OF ALL NATIONS. THIS STUFF IS NOT LEFT UP TO US. WE GOT OUR MARCHING ORDERS AND EVEN IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO SUCCEED, WE'RE NOT GOING TO END UP SUCCEEDING A LITTLE MORE BY COMPROMISE. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO WIN OR LOSE LES GO DOWN WITH OUR HANDS HELD HIGH BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE FAITHFUL MORE THAN WE WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND WE CAN LEAVE THE SUCCESS IN THE HANDS OF CHRIST, WE CAN LEAVE THE ACTUARIAL STATISTICS TO THE ANGELS. BUT AS TENNYSON SAYS OURS IS NOT THE REASON WHY; OURS IS BUT TO DO OR DIE. >> WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE IN SOCIETY GOING BACK TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE 4TH FRENCH REPUBLIC WHERE THEY GAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP, AND THEY DID THE SAME THING IN THE CONSTITUTION OF THE SOVIET UNION. THEY GAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. AND WE HAVE -- PRESIDENT OBAMA WAS TALKING ABOUT FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS OUR CONSTITUTION SPEAKS OF FREEDOM OF RELIGION. AND FREEDOM OF WORSHIP IS DECEPTIVE, AS SO OFTEN IS THE CASE IN SECULAR MENTALITY. IT SOUNDS OKAY. IN FACT, THE CATHOLICS OF SOVIET UNION OH, GREAT WE HAVE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. AND WHAT THEY MEANT BY THAT WAS KEEP YOUR WORSHIP INSIDE YOUR HOUSE BUT NOT IN THE PUBLIC. AND THIS PUSH TO FREEDOM OF WORSHIP AS A PRIVATE ISSUE PUT INTO THE CONSTITUTIONS OF FRANCE, AND SOVIET UNION IS NOT A CHRISTIAN POINT OF VIEW. IT'S FREEDOM OF RELIGION WHERE WE CAN HAVE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DOING A WIDE VARIETY OF THINGS FOR THE POOR. FOR INSTANCE, WE SEE THE TENSION SHOWING UP IN THE WAY THAT GOVERNMENT HAS IN THE PAST AND MADE TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN, GO AFTER THE LITTLE SISTERS OF THE POOR BECAUSE THEY WON'T PAY FOR ABORTION. AND THAT'S WHEN THEY WANT YOU TO KEEP YOUR CATHOLIC DOCTRINE PRIVATE. AND YOU HAVE TO GO WITH THE SOCIAL NORM OF PROMOTING ABORTION. AND WE ARE SAYING, NO, I HAVE TO LIVE MY WHOLE CATHOLIC FAITH IN EVERY PART OF MY LIFE. >> I WANT TO REPEAT AND REINFORCE WHAT YOU JUST SAID. BECAUSE AT ONE LEVEL, WE GRASP THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP AND IT'S IN OUR CONSTITUTION. AND IT'S NOT A PERFECT DOCUMENT. BUT IT'S A WORK OF LAW FOR US AT LEAST FOR NOW BUT WE CAN SEE IN THE SUBSEQUENT REVOLUTIONS OF THE 1800'S, THE FRENCH BUT ULTIMATELY THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION IN 1917 AND FOLLOWING THAT FREEDOM OF WORSHIP IS SO EASILY CONFUSED WITH FREEDOM OF RELIGION -- FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS CONFUSED WITH FREEDOM OF WORSHIP. AND REALLY THE TRAJECTORY IS FREEDOM FROM RELIGION, THAT IS FROM ANY SOCIAL PUBLIC DISPLAYS, EXHIBITIONS, INSTITUTIONS THAT DARE VENTURE INTO THE PUBLIC SQUARE AND THAT IS WHAT WE MEAN BY CIRCULARIZATION, SECULARISM. THERE'S A SENSE WHERE SECULARITY IS A GOOD THING. YOU WORK SIX DAYS AND WORK AND HAVE THE LITURGY ON THE 7 DAY AND THAT SHOWS HOW THE SACRED AND THE -- AS YOU SEE POLITICIANS RUNNING AND HEAR THEM MAKING PROMISES AND AS YOU SEE THEM BREAKING THEM, IT REMINDS ME -- AND I POINT THIS OUT IN THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOK, OF JIM MARSHAL, THE FAMOUS RUNNING BACK FOR THE MINNESOTA VIKINGS WHO IN OCTOBER OF 1964 PICKED UP ONE OF 30 FUMBLES AND HOLDS THE RECORD. HE PICKS IT'S UP, SCOOPS IT AND RUNS TO THE END ZONE. AND TO CELEBRATE HE THROWS IT IN THE SANDS AND HIS TEAMMATES ARE BERATING HIM BECAUSE, FAMOUSLY, HE RAN THE WRONG WAY AND SCORED A SAFETY FOR THE 49ERS. THE VIKINGS WIN 27-22 BUT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN 27-20 AND THE COACH SAID AFTERWARDS, JIM YOU DID THE ONLY THING THAT WAS MEMORABLE IN THE WHOLE GAME. BUT I MEAN A WRONG WAY RUN IS WHAT HE IS FAMOUS FOR. HE HAS FOUR OR FIVE RECORDS IN THE NFL AND HE IS NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME, AND MOST SPECULATE BECAUSE OF THE WRONG WAY RUN. HE DIDN'T BETRAY HIS TEAMMATES. IT WASN'T ATHLETIC TREES ON. WE ACT ON WHAT IS RIGHT BUT OFTEN WE GET OUR SIGNALS FROM A CULTURE THAT IS NOT ONLY SECULARIZED BUT IT'S ALSO WEAPON NEWSING SECULARISM TO TARGET ANY PUBLIC EXPRESSION OF RELIGION. THAT'S NOT AMERICAN. THAT IS SOVIET. SO WE HAVE GOT TO WAKE UP AND REALIZE ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD OF LIFE, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING AND YOU HAVE AN OPEN FIELD YOU HAVE TO CHECK YOUR DIRECTION AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE RUNNING IN THE RIGHT WAY. IF NOT YOU'RE GOING TO SCORE POINTS FROM THE ENEMY. >> AND THE RIGHT WAY IS TO RUN TOWARD JESUS CHRIST AS THE GOAL AND NOT TOWARDS ACCEPTANCE BY SOCIETY. WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK BUT WE WILL BE BACK IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION SO PLEASE STAY WITH US. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] >> WELCOME BACK. WE WANT TO GET BACK WITH SCOTT TALKING ON HIS NEW AND REALLY WONDERFUL, IMPORTANT BOOK ABOUT IT BEING RIGHT AND JUST. BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW BIBLE STUDY ON EWTN WITH SCOTT HAHN AND THE ST. PAUL CENTER. THIS STUDY IS GOING TO BE CALLED "JOURNEY THROUGH SCRIPTURE: THE BIBLE AND THE CHURCH FATHERS." AND THIS IS GOING TO BE ON THURSDAYS AT 11:00 A.M. EASTERN TIME AND SATURDAYS AT 11:30:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME ON EWTN. SCOTT, WE WILL HAVE YOU TALK ABOUT IT BUT LET ME SHOW A LITTLE CLIP OF IT FIRST. OKAY? >> SURE. ♪ ♪ >> THE FATHERS OF THE CHURCH ARE JUST AS RELEVANT NOW AS THEY WERE IN THE FIRST CENTURIES OF OUR FAITH. THE CHURCH FATHERS PRESENTED THEOLOGY THAT CONSTITUTIONAL HAS GREAT VALUE TODAY BECAUSE, AT ITS HEART IS THE STUDY OF SACRED SCRIPTURE AS A WHOLE. THE FATHERS WILL LEAD US INTO THE MYSTERIES OF THE WORD OF GOD AND SERVE AS EXAMPLES FOR HOW WE SHOULD LIVE OUT THOSE MYSTERIES TODAY. THESE MEN INSTRUCTED THE EARLY CHURCH AND THE DOCTRINE OF THE APOSTLES AND PROVIDE A LINK TO THE VERY WORDS OF CHRIST HIMSELF. SO WE HONOR AND STUDY THE CHURCH FATHERS BECAUSE, IN A VERY REAL SENSE, THEY PROTECTED, TAUGHT AND DISCIPLINED THEIR SPIRITUAL CHILDREN. THEY SETTLED DISPUTES AND DIFFERENCES AMONG THEIR CHILDREN. SOME SACRIFICED THEIR VERY LIVES FOR THE FAMILY OF GOD, AND THEY CONTINUE TO DO MANY OF THE SAME THINGS FOR US TODAY. THE FATHERS ARE LIKE AN ANCIENT CHEST FULL OF PRICELESS TREASURE THAT CAN'T HELP BUT ENRICH YOUR LOVE FOR GOD AND HIS BEAUTIFUL CHURCH. >> SCOTT, HAVING KNOWN YOU FOR SO MANY YEARS NOW, I'M AWARE THAT YOU WERE A BIBLE-ONLY CHRISTIAN AT ONE TIME; CORRECT? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> AND ONE OF THE WAYS TOWARDS CATHOLICISM WAS IN PART THROUGH THE FATHERS. BUT IT'S NOT THAT THE FATHERS GOT YOU TO REJECT SCRIPTURE, DID THEY? >> NO. THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS VALUED SCRIPTURE EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS BIBLICAL SCHOLARS OR PROTESTANTS AND ARGUABLY MORE, MUCH MORE, BECAUSE THEY SAW THE SACRAMENTALITY OF SCRIPTURE AS POPE BENEDICT XVI PUT IT. AND WHEN YOU SEE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE SACRED SCRIPTURE AND THE SACRAMENTS, ESPECIALLY THE MASS, IT ENDS UPTAKING SCRIPTURE TO AN ENTIRELY NEW LEVEL. AND THIS IS WHAT THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS DID, CONNECTING THE NEW TESTAMENT AND THE OLD AND HOW THE NEW IS CONCEALED IN THE OLD AND THE OLD IS REVEALED AND FULFILLED BY THE NEW. BUT THIS FULFILLMENT ISN'T JUST BACK IN THE FIRST CENTURY. I. NOT JUST IN THE SECOND, THIRD AND FOURTH. THE FATHERS SHOWED ME THAT IN THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS THIS FULFILLMENT CONTINUES ON TODAY EVERY BITTER AS MUCH AS IT WAS BACK IN THE FIRST CENTURY OR FOR THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS. I'M GRATEFUL TO MATT LEADER. HE IS ONE OF THOSE GUYS AND WE HAVE HAD OVER 60 PEOPLE LIVE WITH US SINCE WE MOVED HERE. AND IT WAS BACK IN 96 OR SO HE LIVED WITH US AND CAME INTO THE CHURCH AS A FORMER PROTESTANT, AND WE WORKED TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF PROJECTS OVER THE YEARS AT THE ST. PAUL CENTER. I'M ZOOMING NOW TO YOU FROM THE ST. PAUL CENTER STUDIO. AND THE JOURNEY THROUGH SCRIPTURE SERIES THAT WE HAVE DONE BEGAN WITH THE BIBLE AND THE VIRGIN MARY AND THE BIBLE AND THE SACRAMENTS JUST LAST YEAR. THIS SERIES, THE BIBLE AND THE CHURCH FATHERS AND THIS YEAR ON OUR WEBSITE FOR LIVE STREAMING FREE WE HAVE THE BIBLE AND THE MASS. SO I FINALLY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE OUR REAL PRESENCE PROJECT CANNOT ONLY RESTORE FAITH IN THE REAL PRESENCE FOR MORE AND MORE CATHOLICS BUT THIS SERIES AND DESIGNED TO KIND OF TAKE PEOPLE FROM EUCHARISTIC FAITH, EUCHARISTIC DEVOTION TO WHAT JOHN PAUL CALLED EUCHARISTIC AMAZEMENT. SO THE BIBLE AND THE CHURCH FATHERS AND WE ALSO HAVE A BRAND-NEW SERIES RUNNING THROUGH LENT AND AVAILABLE AFTERWARDS CALLED THE BIBLE AND THE MASS, AND THESE EPISODES ARE NO, I DON'T REALLY LEAD PEOPLE TO THE POINT WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING A THE FAITH THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN RAISED W THEY MIGHT HAVE GROWN UP AS CRADLE CATHOLICS BUT THERE'S A SENSE OF CONVERSION THAT ISN'T JUST FOR PROTESTANTS BUT FOR CATHOLICS, CONVERSION IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EXPERIENCED IN A WAY THAT RENEWS OUR FAITH. >> EXACTLY. AND SO AGAIN IT'S CALLED JOURNEY THROUGH SCRIPTURE, THE BIBLE AND THE CHURCH FATHERS, AND IT WILL BE THURSDAYS AT 11:00 A.M. EASTERN TIME, AND SATURDAYS IT WILL BE AT 11:30:00 P.M. EASTERN TIME RIGHT HERE ON EWTN. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. BUT WE ALSO -- I'D LIKE TO GET BACK TO THIS OTHER BOOK. ONE OF THE LINES THAT YOU HAVE, AND YOU DO A MASTERFUL JOB OF BRINGING OUT THE FULL QUOTATION FROM KARL MARX. HE FAMOUSLY SAID "RELIGION IS THE OPIUM OF THE PEOPLE" BUT THAT'S A PARTIAL QUOTE. THIS IS PROOF TEXTING FROM MARK X WITHOUT GIVING THE FULL QUOTE. AND ACTUALLY IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS MUCH MORE SYMPATHETIC WITH RELIGION. HE WAS DEALING WITH, ESPECIALLY WHEN ME WROTE THAT IN 1847, THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THE HORRORS OF THE EARLY INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. THERE WERE NO SAFETY FEATURES. THERE WAS CHILD LABOR. THERE WAS NO STOPPING 6 AND 7-YEAR-OLDS FROM DANGEROUS WORK. THIS WAS STARVATION WAGES, 12 HOUR DAYS, SIX DAYS A WEEK. LIVES WERE SHORT AND THE PLACE WAS UNHEALTHY. AND HE HAD REALLY SYMPATHY FOR THE WORKERS. THAT WAS THE POSITIVE SIDE. BUT GIVE THE WHOLE QUOTE IF YOU WOULD. >> THE WHOLE QUOTE IS THIS. RELIGION IS THE SIGH OF THE OPPRESSED CREATURE, THE HEART OF A HEARTLESS WORLD, AND THE SOUL OF SOULLESS CONDITIONS. IT IS THE OPIUM OF THE PEOPLE. SO WHAT HE IS DESCRIBING IS HIS RELIGIOUS IMPULSE, NOT SIMPLY AS A REFUGE FOR IDIOTS AND THOSE WHO DON'T THINK BUT AS AN OASIS FOR THE HUMANENESS THAT PEOPLE WERE NOT EXPERIENCING ANYWHERE IN THE SOCIAL SPHERE, IN THE WORK ORDER. SO I DON'T WANT TO EXTEND TOO MUCH OF A LINE OF CREDIT TO MARX BECAUSE WORKERS OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO BUT LOSE YOUR CHAINS. HE CHAINED WORKERS THEN AS MARXISTS DO NOW. SO THE ABOLITION OF RELIGION WAS FOR HIM OSTENSIBLY THE REMOVAL OF AN ILLUSORY OPIATE, THAT IS, IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY DO GOOD FOR YOU OR FOR OTHERS. SO WE DON'T FOCUS SO MUCH ON THE OPIUM AS THE NOTION OF RELIGION THAT HAD BEEN SO REDUCED, THIS REDUCTIONISTIC RELATIVISM OF RELIGION TO CHOOSE YOUR POISON, CHOOSE YOUR DRUG, CHOOSE YOUR RELIGION -- IT HAD BECOME SO DESSICATED BY THE 19TH CENTURY, WHAT WE WANTED TO DO, WHAT IS RIGHT AND JUST IS TO RECAPTURE THE CIVILIZATION FORMING POWER OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH, NOT PRIMARILY BY POLITICAL MEANS BUT SIMPLY BY LIVING OUT THE GOSPEL AND LIVING OUT THE GRACE THAT WE RECEIVE IN ALL SEVEN OF THE COMMENTS IN A WAY THAT IS CONSISTENT, IN A WAY THAT IS, SHALL I SAY ESCHATOLOGICALLY SAFE. IF YOU WANT TO CELEBRATE THE SACRAMENTS AND END UP IN EVERYTHING, THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THAT. IT IS OUR DUTY AND OUR SALVATION AND THESE AREN'T LINES THAT YOU LIFT FROM THE LITURGY. THESE ARE THE BEDROCK TRUTHS THAT WE NEED TO DEFINE OUR LIVES BY. >> JUST SO FOLKS FURTHER UNDERSTAND, MARX HAD A CERTAIN EMPATHY FOR THE FOLKS. NO DOUBT OF THAT. AND YOU WERE ABLE TO GIVE A SOMEWHAT POSITIVE SPIN TO WHAT UNDER LIES THE ISSUE, AND THEN TAKE IT UP. I HAD PAUL CANGOR ON THIS PROGRAM SOME WEEKS AGO WITH HIS NEW BOOK ON MARX. I BELIEVE IT WAS CALLED MARX AND THE DEVIL -- OR THE DEVIL AND MARX? I FORGET THE TITLE EXACTLY. >> THE DEVIL AND KARL MARX. >> YES. IN WHICH KARL MARX WROTE POEMS TO SATAN AND ABOUT SATAN. SO IT BRINGS OUT -- AND CANGOR BRINGS THIS OUT IN A GOOD WAY. THAT THE DENIGRATION OF RELIGION AND THE ATTEMPT TO REMOVE IT LED TO HORRENDOUS VIOLENCE IN THE 20TH CENTURY. THAT 20TH CENTURY SAW 40 MILLION CHRISTIAN MARTYRS, MOSTLY IN MARXIST COUNTRIES. I MEAN THE NAZIS DID THEIR SHARE AND THEY WERE RIGHT WING GOVERNMENTS THAT DID THEIR SHARE. BUT NO ONE COMPARED TO THE COMMUNISTS. IN ADDITION TO PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED APART FROM THEIR FAITH. I MEAN, UNDER COMMUNISM, OF THE 305 MILLION PEOPLE KILLED IN WAR AND PERSECUTION IN THE 20TH CENTURY, A GOOD 200 MILLION OF THEM WERE KILLED BY COMMUNISTS. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO SEE THAT THE ATTACK ON THE RELIGION LED TO THIS SATANIC PROMOTION OF DEATH. AS THE PROPHET ISAIAH SPOKE OF. AN ALLIANCE WITH DEATH TO PROMOTE THEIR IDEOLOGY OF GETTING RID OF RELIGION. AND, BY THE WAY, SO FOLKS ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT 40 MILLION MARTYRS IS MORE THAN HALF OF ALL OF THE MARTYRS IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH. THERE ARE 75 MILLION MARTYRS IN CHURCH HISTORY. 35 MILLION IN THE FIRST 1900 YEARS, 40 MILLION IN THE 20TH CENTURY ALONE. THIS IS WHERE -- WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BRINGS OUT ITS IMPORT. THE LACK OF RELIGION IN SOCIETY AS A WAY TO UNDERSTAND JUSTICE AND GIVE CONTENT TO THE ULTIMATE JUSTICE TOWARD GOD AS WELL AS JUSTICE TO OUR PARENTS AND OUR COUNTRY, AS WELL AS DISTRIBUTIVE JUSTICE AND THE JUSTICE TO INDIVIDUALS, ALL OF THAT IS GIVEN LIGHT BY JESUS CHRIST WHO IS OUR JUSTICE, AS ST. PAUL SAYS IN FIRST CORINTHIANS 1, THAT JESUS PERSONIFIES JUSTICE FOR US. AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT POINTS FOR OUR LISTENERS TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT YOUR BOOK. AND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO SEE THESE THINGS. >> WELL, THANK YOU FOR THOSE KIND WORDS AND ALSO FOR THE ASTUTE OBSERVATIONS ABOUT MARX AND ALL. FIRST GOING BACK TO THE U.S. TREASURE AGENT WHO HAS TO DISCERN BETWEEN REAL AND COUNTERFEIT CURRENCY THERE'S A COUNTERFEIT FORM OF COMPASSION JUST AS THERE'S COUNTERFEIT JUSTICE. AND MARX AND HIS DISCIPLES THROUGH THE DECADES, THROUGH THE 19TH CENTURY, ULTIMATELY THE 2ND THEY ARE THE PURVEYS OF THIS CURRENCY IN A PROFOUND WAY, NOT THE SAME AS IT WAS IN MARX'S DAY WHEN THE WORKERS WERE THE ONES HE WAS TRYING TO UNITE, NOW THE WORKERS PROBABLY VOTED FOR TRUMP 2 TO 1 AT LEAST BUT WE HAVE A NEOMARXISM THAT HAS GONE BACK -- IT GOES BACK ALMOST 90 YEARS AS YOU WELL, KNOW. ESPECIALLY IN FRANKFURT, GERMANY WHY YOU HAVE THIS SCHOOL OF RESEARCH, AND YOU HAVE MACUZA LEAVING NAZI GERMANY AND ENDING UP IN SAN DIEGO. BUT THEY DEVELOPED THIS COUNTERFEIT COMPASSION AND COUNTERFEIT JUSTICE AND NOW IT IS BASICALLY CRITICAL GENDER THEORY, CRITICAL RACE THEORY. IT ISN'T SOMETHING I WOULD ENCOURAGE MOST CATHOLICS TO READ UP ON OUR STUDY OR UNDERSTAND, BUT WE NEED A NEW GENERATION OF CATHOLIC INTELLECTUALS WHO ARE GOING TO BECOME FLUENT IN THIS KIND OF -- WELL, THIS KIND OF DISCOURSE BUT ALSO THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FILL THE BILLS AND RECOGNIZE AND SHOW WHY THIS IS COUNTERFEIT JUSTICE, THIS IS COUNTERFEIT COMPASSION. YOU KNOW, JUST AS MARXISM DID MORE TO CRUSH WORKERS IN THE NAME OF EMANCIPATION, SO LIKEWISE GENDER, RACE, THESE ARE GOING TO BE THE PRINCIPLE VICTIMS OF THIS SO-CALLED CRITICAL RACE THEORY, CRITICAL GENDER THEORY. IN THE NAME OF LIBERATION EVERYONE IS GOING TO BASICALLY BE LEVELLED DOWNWARD AND IMPOVERISHED. IT'S NOT QUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY, IT'S QUALITY OF CONDITION AND CALL UP VENEZUELA AND ASK THEM ABOUT SUCH SOCIAL EXPERTS. THEY'RE CATASTROPHIC, IN THE SHORT RUN AND IN THE LONG HAUL I THINK WE'RE FORCED TO CONCLUDE THAT MARXISM HAS BECOME THE OPIUM OF THE ELITE, AND IN THE PROCESS, WE HAVE BEEN DECEIVED AND SWALLOWED THIS KIND OF LIKE HOOK, LINE AND SINKER. >> AND BY THE WAY PAUL CANGOR IS A DEAR FRIEND. I WAS PRIVILEGED AND HONORED TO BE A SPONSOR WHEN HE CAME INTO THE CHURCH BACK HOME MAYBE 20 YEARS AGO, AND HIS SON, MITCH; A GRADUATE STUDENT HERE IN OUR MA PROGRAM THEOLOGY. >> THE PROBLEM IS, AND THIS GETS OUT ONE OF THE ISSUES. NOW, HIS BOOK IS ON THE CANCEL LIST. AND IT'S BEEN TAKEN OFF. YOU CAN STILL GET IT AT EWTN RELIGIOUS CATALOG. BUT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET IT AT AMAZON. THEY'RE CANCELLING IT FROM THERE. AND THIS GOES BACK TO ANOTHER ELEMENT, THAT THIS TALK ABOUT JUSTICE MEANS THAT WE WILL CANCEL YOU IF YOU DISAGREE WITH US. BECAUSE THE IDEA OF HAVING A JUST DIALOGUE, YOU KNOW, FOLKS BEING ABLE TO GO BACK AND FORTH ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF AN ISSUE IS NOT THERE. THERE WAS MORE FREEDOM IN THE UNIVERSITIES OF THE MIDDLE AGES THAN THERE IS IN THE ELITE UNIVERSITIES OF CONTEMPORARY AMERICA. AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY CANNOT DEAL WITH THOUGHT; THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IDEOLOGY AND BEING IDEOLOGUES AND THIS ATTEMPT TO CANCEL PEOPLE WITH THE LAST DIRTY WORD THEY KNOW. THEY USE DIRTY WORDS FOR PUNCTUATION ALL OVER THE COUNTRY NOW. BUT THE LAST DIRTY WORD IS TO CALL SOMEBODY A RACIST, MAYBE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THEY JUST USE THAT TO CANCEL EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT TRUE. SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO IN THE SOCIETY AND SEEK JUSTICE SO THAT PEOPLE SAY, IF SOMEBODY IS A RACIST, PROVE IT. AND GIVE EVIDENCE. OTHERWISE YOU'RE TREATING PEOPLE UNJUSTLY. AND CANCELLING GOOD THINKERS LIKE PAUL CANGOR. >> RIGHT. I DO THINK THAT LIBERALISM HAS KIND OF TORN OFF THE MASK OF A COUNTERFEIT TOLERANCE. I MEAN I WISH THAT WE COULD ROLL BACK THE CLOCK BUT IT FEELS LIKE SQUEEZING TOOTHPASTE BACK IN THE TUBE. HOW DO WE GO BACK TO LIBERAL DISCUSSION WHERE WE CAN FREELY DISCOURSE WITH OUR CANCEL CULTURE, WITH WOKE CULTURE? IT SEEMS WE ARE DEALING WITH A COUNTERFEIT BUT IT'S DIABOLICAL. IT'S NOT JUST CRIMINAL. AND I THINK THAT DEVIL, AS YOU KNOW, IS ALSO LABELED OR IDENTIFIED AS THE ACCUSER. AND WHAT DOES HE ACCUSE US OF? THE VERY THINGS HE SINCE HE ATTEMPTED US TO COMMIT. HOW IRONIC IS THAT? I THINK WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THE ETIOLOGY OF CANCEL CULTURE BEING NOT ONLY SELF DECEPTIVE BUT PURELY DECEPTIVE AND SUBVERSIVE AND DIABOLICAL. CAUSING TRADITIONAL MORALITY HATE SPEECH, INSURRECTION, THIS SORT OF THING IS ITSELF REAL HATE SPEECH AND THERE'S A CULTURAL INSURRECTION THAT HAS GONE UNIDENTIFIED BY MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND I THINK WE ALL KNOW IT GOES BEYOND WHAT FOX REPORTS. IT'S WHAT 27 DISCERNS, NATURALLY AND SUPER NATURALLY. IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO BE CONSERVATIVE. WE HAVE TO BE CATHOLIC AND THAT GOES BEYOND THE MERE CONSERVATIVE. THIS IS THE RALLYING CALL THAT WE NEED, TO RECOGNIZE THAT AS PATRIOTIC AMERICANS WHO ARE GRATEFUL FOR THIS COUNTRY, THE BEST THING THAT WE CAN DO, THE BEST THING WE CAN GIVE THIS COUNTRY IS OUR FAITH LIVED OUT MORE FULLY, MORE FREELY AND MORE JOYFULLY THAN EVER BEFORE. THAT IS GOING TO BE THE DRIVE SHAFT OF THE NEW EVANGELIZATION FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS. IF NOT DECADES. >> I THINK WHEN WE LOOK BACK ON HISTORY, I'M TEACHING A COURSE ON WESTERN CIVILIZATION, DARE I SAY IT'S, AT A HIGH SCHOOL. AND TO SEE HOW THE DIFFICULTY THAT EARLY MEDIEVAL PEOPLE HAD IN LIVING OUT THEIR CATHOLIC FAITH. CHARLEMAGNE PROMOTED IT BUT HE HAD PERSONAL TROUBLE LIVING IT OUT BY STAYING FAITHFUL TO HIS LIFE. AND OTHER FOLKS HAD GREAT TROUBLE. BUT AS THE CHURCH HAD MORE AND MORE IMPACT, AND PEOPLE BECAME MORE AND MORE CATHOLIC, THE CULTURE BECAME BETTER AND BETTER. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED -- YOUR POINT IN THE LAST CHAPTERS OF THE BOOK, WE NEED TO BE CATHOLIC. AND I WANT TO AGAIN MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE GET THE TITLE OF THIS. THE BOOK IS CALLED "IT IS RIGHT AND JUST: WHY THE FUTURE OF CIVILIZATION DEPENDS ON TRUE RELIGION." THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS. THE FUTURE OF CIVILIZATION IS NOT ABOUT POLITICAL CONSERVATISM. IT'S ABOUT AUTHENTIC CATHOLICISM. AND THIS IS -- AND THIS OF COURSE BY OUR GUEST TONIGHT SCOTT HAHN AND HIS COLLEAGUE BRANDON MCGINLEY. YOU CAN GET THIS BOOK AT EWTNRC.COM AND HIS ITEM 50700. AND YOU CAN GET PAUL CANGOR'S BOOK THERE AS WELL. WE URGE YOU TO READ THAT AS WELL SO THAT WE FORM THIS CATHOLIC VIEW. DR. HAHN, WE HAVE RUN FLAT OUT OF TIME. SO SORRY FOR THAT. I WISH WE HAD ANOTHER COUPLE OF HOURS BUT WE DON'T. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. AND LET ME GIVE A BLESSING, MAY ALMIGHTY GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND KEEP YOU, THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. >> AMEN. >> YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS. >> I DO. >> I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION AND KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK AND I CAN'T WAIT TO BE WITH YOU IN REAL FLESH LIFE. IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, FATHER MITCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> I ALWAYS ENJOY IT MYSELF. WE CAN KEEP DR. HAHN AND HIS PROGRAMS ON, KEEPS BETWEEN YOUR GAS BILL, YOUR ELECTRIC BILL AND CABLE BILL AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO PAY ALL OF OUR BILLS TOO. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL. [MUSIC]
