EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT NDI, BUT WHAT IS IT? - Salt Talk ep 3

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello and welcome to another edition of salt talk i'm julia sherwin with ptz optics and salt talk is for sound and light tech talk this is a show geared just for houses of worship who are looking to enhance their video production and live streaming skills we know you have a lot of volunteers and it's really important to make sure that you're continuing your education in this area as the future of uh live church inside is somewhat of an uncertainty and i am joined by my co-hosts stephen haywood and jeremy klusterman hey welcome happy tuesday happy tuesday and and that's right we're we're coming to you live the last tuesday of each month at 11 a.m eastern time 8 a.m pacific time and today we're gonna start talking about something that i'm sure you're hearing a lot about in the news in the industry um the buzzword ndi what is it why is it important how can it help your house of worship when it comes to uh you know an ip video production workflow why is it becoming more preferred uh stephen i'll let you uh kick it off well i mean i i we all know about uh here in the broadcast industry about ndi5 that was released last week and i know a lot of guys including jeremy we we've been like really excited about it because of the opportunities that it brings to the video world but there's a lot of churches and a lot of folks that i've been training at the church have been asking what is this ndi i know we use it is it hard to set up like if you weren't here is there is there a way that uh we could set it up easily and uh you know later on we i want to go through a demonstration and show exactly you know why you would want to switch to ndi but uh jeremy what about you i mean have you had that happen to you inside of the house of worship space oh yeah for sure we have uh so many churches reaching out to us um asking hey i have these cameras i'm in an existing building i can't run cables through the walls how do i get that video you know from my camera back to my video switcher so we we have that all the time i know specifically i worked with some historic cathedrals and and they didn't want to run cables through there through their existing space they didn't want to drill holes in the beautiful woodwork and and and so ndi is a great way to do that over network connections and and a lot of these older churches have have great networking uh capabilities network in the in the facilities so um the ability to run and connect video devices um you know through through an existing network is just a huge capability to to integrate into into these spaces so it's it's been a huge game game changer for broadcast industry especially in the house of worship yeah that aesthetic piece that um is so important as you mentioned you know i you know that's something that i'm always thinking about like a lot of cables can sort of be unsightly so especially in these older uh structures you know there you want to preserve that um historic beauty and also have it be simple for anyone who's working on the system to make sure that it's pretty seamless it can be managed in another location potentially you know what are you seeing when it comes to that as far as you know somebody may be working in another area of the church kind of managing it all yeah yeah well going back to to the conversation about um about running cables running extra cables i know uh dante audio really took the the industry by storm as well and people got used to having like one one audio source and being able to route that to different rooms for for um you know specific broadcast uh audio mixing and different different audio workflows so then they're like well i want the same thing with video and ndi gives you that capability because you have the one video source that can be routed to multiple multiple rooms in the church so you can you can route ndi video to cry rooms nursing mother rooms and different facilities throughout the building and same with broadcast you can you can route it to different rooms so it gives it gives the production team the ability to to put that video wherever it's needed without having to run a ton of extra cabling yeah i think that's the i think that's the big thing and i know uh a lot of people inside of of the house of worship space they they get intimidated when you start talking about networking and ip and and it's like oh man i i'm not an i.t you know guru julia i i don't know this whole spectrum uh it's it's kind of cumbersome and i i hope today we can shed some light on that that's that's exactly what i wanted you to do steven because those are certainly some of the comments that we're hearing um you know oh my gosh where do i even start right you know and how how can this be easy and ndi you know what what does that mean you know why don't we you know talk a little bit about the technology ndi is for network device interface it was developed um you know by uh new tech is rt and you know you want to just break break down a little bit about the basics of ndi and what it is and then we can kind of talk about that next step of how easy the connectivity really is right so um ndi stands for network device interface which basically will allow you to take a standard ethernet cable connect your ndi capable device to the network and allow for that piece of software or hardware if you're using obs vmix wirecast different pro presenter i mean there's so many different options rezzy you have a lot of different options that can see ndi you pay for the license and that's it man you just you just run the cable so it makes things a little easier i see we've got a comment here um uh from rick the mix um about how he installed uh ptz optics ndi cameras in the church it was so simple um just one cat six cable to each camera for the power video we're gonna get into that but they're not doing audio but yeah it's it's i mean if you want do you want me to go into the the demonstration or show a little bit about it or i could talk a little bit about about rick like rick's comment so um i had done pretty much that exact uh install in my in my uh kids school they were looking for a good setup for their multi-purpose room they do chapel services and everything in in that multi-purpose room and they were running all their video off from my ipad and just having all kinds of issues so um so i was able to to partner with a couple different companies we got them a wirecast gear system that took in two ptz optics cameras and again i just had to do um one little poe switch which uh steven has in in studio so he'll show you something similar and and yeah just like rick said you have you have the ability to get video um camera control over that single network cable so video power and then camera control so you can go in and literally set up presets of those camera shots and just just switch it the camera automatically moves to to the set location it really makes for a great workflow and and again i i ran two network cables for that install so it's been it's been a phenomenal setup for them yeah i i see here uh alan see this is this is what we're talking about right he says my network makes my brain hurt julia that seems to be the consensus it sure does and um you know there's also another very valuable side to this and i i i hate to keep talking about it but it's still here the coronavirus right i mean we're hearing a lot more about the delta variant we don't know where the fall is gonna you know be especially you know the the holiday worship season starts to you know ramp up obviously in the fall so i mean there's certainly other advantages too when it comes to having an ip workflow as far as you know separating your camera operator from you know other people um you know tell me a little bit about that well i know from our standpoint like we have already you know we're already locked in and i'm sure jeremy you guys are locked in you're not going backwards you're going to continue live streaming um even going into the fall we're just i mean just like everybody else we're taking a day in and day out people are still coming people are tired of being cooped up and um you know as more and more people are getting vaccinated they're just uh i don't say they're letting their guard down but they are you know they're attending church i mean we we have been having church as usual since june so uh jeremy pretty much in your neck of the woods the same yeah exactly the same i mean but but like you said steven it's it's like the the live streaming of videos is here to stay in and you know having having been helping churches live stream for over 12 years it's it's amazing to see where we're at now and how so many other churches are doing the exact same thing um i actually worked with a church at a new york which which was phenomenal they had their first back in service sunday on july 4th which was awesome celebration and they had over 13 000 views worldwide on that first service that they streamed so um so yeah people are still watching service online people are still i i believe that that the the streams are still the great first step into the church that that first impression of hey i'm checking out what church i want to attend you know if i'm going to go back in person uh where where am i going to go and so they're checking people are watching several different services online just seeing where where the poll is and where they where they're making that connection so yeah it's not going anywhere and i think um you know more and more people are are realizing it's here to stay and so that's where that's where helping people connect and get these get these good workflows together is gonna make the difference fair enough what was once a contingency plan is now part of you know regular operations so i saw we had some a question pop up there what is required to add a wireless camera via ndi to an sdi switcher oh that's that's a great question um and and i'm sure steven has a lot of great tools but there's so many amazing ndi decoders now that will decode an ndi source convert it to either hdmi or sdi in your case you're looking for sdi i believe magewell makes a makes a great ndi decoder for something like that so then you can take the a wireless ndi camera source into a decoder like that feed that right into your video switcher bird dog makes a couple a couple great decoders made well it really depends on what type of ndi you're working with and then again what what your video source is so there's there's a lot of great tools out there for that so you're not you're not limited there and a lot of the ndi cameras today also have hdmi sdi like our cameras um and there's a lot of folks out there that are probably sitting here watching this and saying okay this sounds great but my cameras are not ndi they're not they don't have an ethernet port so how do i get that into an ndi solution and as jeremy alluded to you know there's a lot of companies out there like magewell blackmagic that make capture cards that you can hook to a pc or a mac and use the free ndi tools that will allow it to convert it to an ndi signal and bring it into your workflow you could have a camera you know in another room and bring it into your main workflow so there's a lot of free tools that uh that vis new tech and ndi and and all those guys they have right here on the website if you go to ndi.tv it's a free download you can also read up about some of the other options here as as well but again the the tools are free so you might as well uh utilize them there right right yeah and that's it it's awesome how many uh software companies are supporting ndi video now like um like you alluded to earlier pro presenter renewed vision release propresenter 7 which now takes ndi sources in also sends ndi video out so you no longer have to have like a screen capture software running on that on that platform you can just output an ndi source right from that software adobe has has adopted ndi video sources um i think even i i think i even saw that um uh some of the large video editing software tools are supporting ndi ingest now as well absolutely i'm just pulling up some of these comments a lot of these great comments coming in julia i know that's great and um we'll have to um make sure that we share our email address too before we're finished today so um you can reach us for any future show topic questions or ideas uh salt talk ptzoptics.com and there is there are two t's so spell out salt and talk so it's salt talk at ptzoptics.com so did you guys want to take us through some uh demonstrations and show us some product and how easy it is to you know start a workflow like this sure sure we can do that um jeremy do you want to go first you want me to go first what do you what do you want to do here well i don't have i don't have a studio setup like you do where i can switch to different cameras but i can i can talk about like i said if you want to get set up i can i can talk about some of the workflows that i helped with um i know specifically i worked with a church that was that was asking about doing baptism videos and they do baptisms out in their parking lot so how did they get ndi or how did they get a camera source from their parking lot into their production switchers so again you know a wireless system they ended up using the the new tech ndi app on their phone going out in their parking lot with ndi video sending it back into the the church and and switching that video in in that way so so even your phone there's a there's great ndi camera apps that that can be used on your phone for for that specific purpose um as well i know i i believe ptz optics has a uh an adapter that you can send um one of the ptz cameras wirelessly back into a production environment so there's there's great tools there for for getting that set up you can see let's see here my the videos backwards so my my camera here my ptz optics camera up here i have that connected into my system into my network so i can i can pull video in there and and do some demonstrations with my workflow like i said unfortunately i don't have it connected today to to be able to do that but steven will be able to show his studio and some of his connections i'm glad you brought up jeremy the the cell phone side of things because you know um churches who are just starting out you know might feel really intimidated about making this investment into cameras and equipment but you can realistically use a cell phone in certain ways to start off yep yep yeah i've seen a lot of people do that just start with with cell phone video and and like for my church when we started we we didn't have much equipment so we we literally bought an audio interface that could plug into our phone and we just streamed with that and got good audio in there um and then again ndi source back to back to our video switcher and then streamed from a video switcher so we could get graphics in there so we have a few more questions did you want to adjust those first stephen or do you want to get to the demo yeah let me pull up um i saw is it possible to let me pull this up here real quick split the audio and the video so with ndi5 they have the new audio abilities that you can send audio and receive audio separately um in current iterations of ndi i don't know the way jeremy that you can split the audio like what i usually do is cheat and wirecast and i'll or vmix i turn off the video and then i move that audio source from the ndi signal to wherever i want but um the new ndi 5 has the ability to send uh just just audio signals right yeah and and i believe there's another company out there that that um partnered with dante and so they're carrying dante over ndi signal as well um and then obviously with dante you're able to route that um so there there's some some tools uh of that nature um i don't know um but i'm sure as the as that partnership grows and as uh more and more people are developing around this they'll be able to route audio separate from that video source there but yeah i mean other than getting audio d embedders and and things of that nature um i don't i don't know of a great way of of separating that audio at this point yeah like i said you can just you can turn the video off but um all right well i can go over to my area here and uh we can kind of show this here um so this is this is one of the reasons why we talk about how ndi is going to save you time and money essentially because here i have a major capture card this is an sdi capture card as you can see it has the bnc end on the end but then it also has a usb 3 attachment that you would hook to your mac or pc it is driverless so you can um hook it up and uh just plug and play right so if we turn this around the ptz optics cameras this is an ndi model camera as you can see it says the ndi uh here as well but you'll notice that on the back of these we have the ethernet port we have the hdmi port we have an sdi port so you can essentially hook this up you know any way you want but as jeremy was saying when you have long runs i'm going to demonstrate this this is a power cable here that we're going to hook into the back okay so if we're going to do this sdi this is what we got to do we have to power it up we have to get a bnc cable with sdi on it and we have to hook this up to the back of the camera we also have to have one of these expensive capture cards okay and hook that up right here so as you guys can see hooked up it's not going anywhere and if you've never seen one of these before they have like a twist lock so you you turn it a quarter of a turn and i honestly i like using these over hdmi i'm sure jeremy you would agree a lot better than it's it's more secure right yeah for sure so we have that hooked up and then okay if you want to use sdi that's great you got it hooked up but now you want to be able to control the camera with a piece of software so now you got to add your ethernet cable to this camera uh on the back side here so now i've got three cables hooked up to this that i have to run um and purchase additional cables to do all this stuff to run it and i have to have a capture card for each camera that i want to do this with so ndi we're going to take all this stuff off but i'm going to leave the i'm going to leave the ethernet hooked up because we're going to use that and so just for twenty dollars i think that's what i paid for this um on amazon it this is a what's called a poe switch power over ethernet what this essentially does is it allows you to power the camera without the power adapter by just plugging in the ethernet so essentially let me slide this down so you guys can see this in in view you're going to take the other end of your ethernet and you're going to plug it into um you can plug it into one and then you would plug one of these into your computer the link plug all your cameras into here power this up by just you know plugging into a wall adapter and you now have ndi on your your computer so if this was plugged into my computer i would then see this camera over ndi now you do have to pay for the ndi license but it's so you know it's a once and done deal and you're hooked up i personally when i go out remote locations not just at the churches i just bring 300 foot and 100 foot cables to run for these cameras to do any production because i i just hook it up i don't even use a router unless i need to use um i think jeremy you and and uh julia mentioned about the uh iphone app like if i want to connect the ndi wi-fi i got to create my own network so i don't even hook up to a regular network unless i wanted to stream it with something other than a live view i use a live view to stream so i mean this this to me is simple to set up i mean you want to talk about how easy ndi is i mean this this is as easy as it gets you plug it in and then essentially what's going to happen let's go over to my i have wirecast pulled up here and you can just simply click the plus sign once it's connected to your network go into your network and here you can see all the ndi sources that are available to you um on on your network so if steve just gotta say that's a little bit excessive there hey listen [Laughter] i have no judgment zone i have to i have to torture test things right so you can see um i have a bunch of different uh cameras that i can that i can pull from in fact let's pull in the let's see if we can pull this one in here if if wirecast will cooperate with me here and my network there it is boom so that's the camera right over ndi i didn't have to do any configuring you guys didn't you saw me there was no no magic involved i literally just uh connected it and that's it um and i do know we you know uh you said about a uh aesthetics jeremy about in in the churches and i know um that we create this this ptz optics wireless cables now um you can get one of these and you connect the ethernet to your camera and then there's another box like this that you put at your switch end so if you didn't want to run cable now you know i think these run close to i want to say close to two thousand dollars but it's an option if you are in an old church building and you need massive coverage and you don't want to run miles and miles of ethernet cable this is an option with this wireless cables and it has a hot shoe mount so if you you know if you want to set it up on a hot shoe or connect it but this is an option if you you know if you have an older church building and you want to do something like that i just thought it was an interesting way to julia use use the networking feature with it yeah and did you see that comment um someone from zimbabwe they're they're how far are they working there well he said what two two kilometers away yeah wow that's insane i know i'm just trying to woke up but that's just it it's like so many people have adopted uh ndi video because because of the ease of use just like steven showed like how easy it is to get ndi video into your system um but then be able to carry that you know however far you need to go with this one two kilometers did you find out the conversion on that no i didn't i mean that's a couple a mile and a half two about or two miles well it's it's 1.2 miles yeah i'm thinking i should know this because i'm a cyclist and that's the the system they use often is kilometers i'll be riding and trying to convert this stuff in my head sometimes but yeah i mean it's it's amazing and um you know that's really what if this technolo this technology is meant to bring people together i mean that's the bottom line that's what worship does that's you know how how we connect and you know these technologies are just continuing to help us through you know some of the most challenging times really the world and for for certain elderly populations and and those who don't want to risk uh you know who can't get the vaccine you know they're going to continue to access live streams for the foreseeable future yep well i think another big thing that ndi has helped with and i'm i'm excited to see what what ndi 5 does with this workflow is contactless video because more and more conference rooms are are becoming like a bring your own device for presentation purposes and so i know there's there's ndi devices in conference rooms now and you know this is stepping slightly outside of the the worship space but be able to bring your own device and do a presentation without having to touch any cables or or you know interact with with that it's bring your device in cast out ndi into that environment and and the conference room be being able to pick up that ndi signal and send it to a projector so so it's it there's just so many applications that that i see in this space in the industry for getting for getting uh that in in place so there's a question here about the does ndi have any audio video synchronization issues and i can actually demonstrate this like if you look here this is our uh simple track two camera this is uh from our our sister company huddlecam as you can see it's a motion tracking camera but i have it hooked up via ndi so that's the only way it's hooked up so you're seeing me right now by just just switching to it the the synchronization and then if i go back to my seat here and i switch back to here this is over sdi because i haven't uh up updated the infrastructure yet but that's going to happen in the next couple weeks it is set up with ndi but i still have sdi run for comparison purposes so i thought it looked pretty good to me yeah yeah and and most and even with that most uh most production tools have like audio video sync where you where if there is any sync issues you just line it up and make a make a slight delay on on audio or video depending on what um how you need to line that up so so even if there is um there if you're running audio and video from different sources you know you always have that potential depending on what processing you're doing with the with the audio especially so every tool is is set up for that in a broadcast environment yeah that's that's where you really run into the problem usually is when you're mixing signals if you're if you're doing usb hdmi uh you know sdi and then ndi you could you could experience some sync issues but that that's been across the board jeremy forever when you're when people were mixing firewire if you remember uh to hdmi or sdi and and uh with capture cards and people were like oh it's out of sync and traditionally happens when you mix frame rates and resolutions it can happen yeah yeah and we're seeing a lot of people now using uh digital audio systems for their broadcast mix because you know they want their their sound to sound good with their video as they're streaming out and so they're running it through different processing for um to get that good uh you know studio quality sound in their live mix um but whenever you go through a digital audio system it's there's going to be some delay so so again having that ability to line up audio and video is crucial and i'd say you know just you know i'm still relatively new to this industry and i'd say what like nine times out of ten that's the question right is audio i mean that's usually the component that people struggle with and um obviously it's the most important one because even if your video goes south you know you can you still want to make sure you're hearing the content so we're continuing to get some great questions and for those who may have just joined us thank you so much on salt talk does air live the last tuesday of the month of 11 a.m eastern and eight pacific you can feel free to send your questions to salt talk at ptzoptics.com if you'd like to have any of your questions answered on a future uh edition of our show so uh stephen did you want to go ahead and look at some of those other uh pull up some of those other comments and sure sure there were some questions here um just bear with me here uh yeah what is the guaranteed bandwidth needed that will make the ndi perform on ethernet as good as over sdi hdmi okay let me pull that one up here what is the guaranteed bandwidth needed that will make ndi performance so the best thing to do is to have a gigabit network and i know a lot of these guys are doing now they're switching over to a 10 gigabit network now for this show in this beginning we were trying to keep it very entry level because there's a lot of people there that are coming in um that are in the church world that gets scared when you talk about uh ethernet so we didn't really dive down the the rabbit hole we might do a future episode where we go into more of the advanced features of this um i know uh paul has some videos out on that but uh the main thing is you also want to be hardwired whenever you can try to try to do that i isolate things jeremy i don't know if you do that as well um that's why i have that that poe switch when i'm running ndi sources i try to contain everything into that rather than trying to mix and match different places that way i know everything all the traffic for ndis routed through there yeah yeah yeah and and um just from from experience when you start mixing network traffic there's always a potential for more issues so um i was at a large church we had a huge network infrastructure our pos system point of sale system for a cafe was on the same network as what other people used and it would always affect their that traffic was would always affect our live stream so we had to do a separate uh subnet or vlan for that networking so what i always tell people if they're just getting into it and they're they're doing more of a um step up from entry level ndi network is get a network architect involved at least to bounce questions off from because like um like uh steven said when you when you get into and and i'm surprised you don't have a 10 gig network at your house or maybe you do steven because that's a lot of ndi traffic over that do you have a 10 gig network not yet but it's in the it's in the works yeah yeah so as soon as you get all that video traffic across it's a lot of bandwidth so um so yeah having having 10 gig switches and a 10 gig backbone if you're building out a pretty advanced setup is is really the way to go but ndi especially ndi hx is such a great efficient protocol that you can get a lot of video sources on a one gig network i i do think it it it relates to the infrastructure i see a gentleman in here i'll see if i can pull up his his comment here where he said he was forced to switch back to hdmi here um and honestly hdmi is in my opinion the most dangerous connection to use because it can be pulled out and i've had people trip over those wires and snap them off in my cameras and i avoid hdmi like the play it works great when it as long as nobody touches it and leaves it alone like in a studio environment but you will never catch me using hdmi out on on the road just just won't happen unless unless i'm converting the sdi and i'm only coming off of it with it with a one foot hdmi cable and i'm velcroing the converter box to my tripod i was gonna say if that hdmi cable is connected like behind a closed cabinet or something like that that's not for getting unlocked um but yeah i've seen some really cool and unique hdmi lock devices out there to make sure that doesn't happen um but even still it's it's the whole reason why apple developed the mag safe um power cord right is that quick a quick rip away um but same with the bnc connection it's it's locked in there it's not going anywhere um so sdi um and even ethernet honestly with like the little snappy uh thing on the rj45 connection um it it will not pull out so um you know maybe that's if you have a lot of people walking around your cables it might not be the best but i always keep people away from my cables in uh in production environment so julia that can be tricky right in a house of worship when you know you have children and you have people running around sometimes so yep yep i'm the bad guy there i i get to help kids this is not a play area yeah that's why i hang play bad cop so i hang things from the ceiling because it you know my room doubles uh there's a comment here about uh when you recommend a poe switch you should point out that uh you need to determine how many devices that the switch can actually power they're flaky things honestly i i have not had any issues with this one here and i'll kind of go back over here to it i've actually used every one of these ports out on location so mayan is actually a six six port with two links um i've powered all the devices i've done high school graduations with this this is my you can see there's velcro here this is the one from my actual box um and it's just a uh a generic poe switch maybe i'll have to find a link for it let you guys see it but honestly um i use this for the the productions that i did inside of the auditorium for the graduation i've done it for school plays i mean julie i've done it just about for everything and it's it's i've not had any issues with that one and i assume other people could have uh issues with different poe switches but maybe i got fortunate on that one and i think what he's pointing out is there there are some ndi cameras on on the market that require more than um more than just the and i forget the the wattage uh to power but um but yeah there's definitely um i've i've always used ubiquity um network switches for that and they they do make higher power um poe switches so so typically you're looking for poe or poa plus or poe plus plus depending on on the power rating of the of the ndi source that you're trying to power so those are things to keep in mind is is it look at the specs of that poe camera and how much power it draws and then look up do i need p o e p e plus or p o e plus plus alan says lots of gaff tape oh geez so we're a load in loadout church but i know we've talked about this before but but our kids like all all the kids and in the church like my pastors my kids and then another family they they will help tear down and they always like to make the the largest gaffe gaff tape ball they can possibly make it's it's fun until it gets thrown at your head then it kind of hurts so jeremy you mentioned ubiquity um somebody here is asking for recommendations on uh examples of uh network switches yeah so again and i don't i didn't see the model of that one ubiquity makes great switches um i've actually been recently working with a company called uh peplink that well they're more balanced routers um in in different different uses there but yeah those tp-link uh switches are amazing netgear there's so many out there um yeah these are plus and plus plus so if you just search out um i think mine i think mine's a mine's a plus i think that's what mine is okay so but i'm going to go with a big one like that for as you as you saw jeremy i need to yep i need something bigger yeah you have like a whole dmarc closet with with uh with rack gear for your for your networking and no but i should yeah to keep it to keep it cool um but i mean they're inexpensive go ahead i was gonna say what's great about you know like that shows like this and you know working with us like you can you can email us your questions and if you do happen to own ptz optics gear um you know the support at ptz optics is 8 am to 6 pm ever you know monday through friday so um you know somebody will pick up the phone and we'll we'll help you out there's a robust knowledge base also that you can access online so it's not like you you have this equipment and then you're like just stuck so you've got that access to um you know there's there's user forums out there too and so many of you are encountering similar challenges so um i think it's really great that the community exists so you know you can reach out to to get some additional help if you need it and i just posted a link in the chat for that uh search on amazon for the uh the plus uh but jeremy that you had a guy he wanted to know because i guess you were talking about latency with rtmp and he wanted to know what would what protocol would you recommend yeah and i'm i'm answering that in there but but yeah anytime you're looking at lowest latency um it's kind of a toss-up you know you have that triangle you have you have the the best cheapest or most reliable you pick two right um so lowest latency is a big thing like that when you get into low latency you're you're sacrificing reliability and that's really um rezzy's big thing the the company that i work for um so low latency is great for interactivity just like the the kind of stuff that we're doing here with this show i'm in northern virginia stevens up in in uh eastern or western pennsylvania um i believe julia you're in central pennsylvania so we're all south central yep yeah south central so we use webrtc for for that extremely low latency interactivity when you're looking for that there's really not much better um than webrtc for low latency um but then sometimes you sacrifice uh quality and so you know with the with these conversations i'm sure you've seen zoom calls where the video just gets garbled up or macro blocky um that's what what can happen so um latency what what we have found at resi you know sometimes you want the more reliability especially when you're talking about live streaming so we we actually work on a delay and that's where i want to go to with with um ndi source into pro presenter now renewed vision partnered with with rezzy to to have that that capability to take our feed in to pro presenter 7 and then you can stream out so you can you can take an ndi source into propresenter 7 and then stream out on resi now we run on a 90 second latent feed and you might say hey that sounds crazy but that means that i can actually pull my network connection from my um from my uh encoder or uh more more likely what happens is we had a comcast outage um during our during our live stream um at my church and i was able to within 70 seconds plug in a lte modem to my encoder and it didn't drop the stream where most of the time with a low latency stream if you have a network interruption like that you're going to you're going to lose that stream completely so um it all depends on your strategy for live streaming do you want it to be highly reliable or do you are you looking for that interactivity where you don't necessarily care about video quality so much so there's a it's a long answer to that to that latency discussion but um but i don't know stephen do you have anything to add to that um usually what i see with people that are doing live streams is they'll take their maximum bandwidth right so let's say they have uh 10 megabits up right they'll take that full 10 megabits put it into their encoder and then they'll get the buffering or they'll get the huge delays that um some of the gentlemen are talking about here i've always used this rule of thumb half of your maximum upload meaning your upload from your um your isp so if you have 10 5 megabits should be the maximum you should ever try to encode for your live video and that will keep your latency low i think julia you pointed out in the beginning where there was like seven seconds difference from the countdown clock to what you were seeing the direct feed from me i try to keep our latency as low as i possibly can and by doing that is using formulas for your bandwidth to that so that way you have enough bandwidth to accommodate any kind of guests or any additional network activity especially in a church uh people might be the pastor might be tied into the you know with his phone his laptop his tablet you know pro presenter whatever you're doing you got to account for that a lot of people don't account for that yeah i think that's so true yeah if people don't and and you know the fact that like low latency gets uh all the buzz right but i mean let's face it reliability is pretty key so i mean you've raised a really great point there jeremy yeah and and i had a uh on staff at the at my previous church where where it's like the the pastor wouldn't the the auditorium is full and the pastor would say hey everybody you know being on on facebook or share this on facebook and and also the network goes down because everybody pulled out their cell phone they're all using the same network and it's just like oh really did you just do that but but you know that's that's another plug for it when you're doing video streaming always have a separate dedicated network for your video stream versus what whatever the house network is or at least have a separate vlan with some quality of service on that on that specific port for streaming and that's where having a network engineer will definitely help as well get that get all that information figured out for you i learned at the very very beginning because we always had those mad dashes of like two minutes before service starts signals dropping from everything and uh we got to the point where it was like oh this is cool we got it all done and we've got 15 minutes to spare before sure starts and uh there's no issues like it it was like wow we had a good day today yeah yep so and and and again like like with with what rezzy does you know and just just to because it works so well is you set up that uh schedule and it will it will automatically start and then it's going to navigate those network ups and downs that are really prone to happen in in an environment like that because you know you can do the best possible but there's always you know things that there's always gotchas right there's always something that that might happen right at that last moment so um somebody trips over a network cable right that never happens it's always about planning for those um those episodes and those little mishaps along the way and and when all else fails um you know call call jeremy and stephen for help yeah there you go um but guys we we really as julia mentioned earlier we really like to hear your feedback if you're in the house of worship space and um you're struggling with a certain area if it's something we can assist with if it's something that we can't because maybe we're unfamiliar with that area julia we might be able to get somebody that's from that particular area on the show to talk about those areas of trouble and we really want to make this about about you guys to have a resource to help you further your work inside the house of worship space with video because it is daunting and we haven't even touched audio yet oh yeah that's like a whole nother beast yeah absolutely we want to we want to be that conduit of information and connect you with you know other uh other users the ptz optics has uh user groups so you can check those out on facebook there's a churches that live stream group that you might want to join if you're already uh not already a member of that and again um you can send questions to us salttalk ptzoptics.com i just i'm excited where everything's gonna go i mean if we get into like down the road we get into some like ndi bridge and i've i've had the privilege of playing with that jeremy going off of what you're saying about the network that's where i realized i kind of need to do something with my network if i want to and get a bigger pc but uh there's this is a time to be excited um especially if you're your house of worship because you finally have an affordable way to have multiple cameras without breaking your bank and i i that to me is just it's huge yeah when something else i don't know if you can pull up uh this website real quick steven but i i believe it's sienna tv they've made some amazing broadcast tools for for ndi where you can actually have vector scopes and waveform monitors and everything so um so as you're getting more into the broadcast level of your of your video network you know they have they have amazing tools for for ndi workflow um so so they they're able to you're able to route video into into their tools and i'm just like you know amazed at at some of the things that that they're able to do where normally in a broadcast environment um you're talking probably close to tens of thousands of dollars worth of worth of equipment and they have it in in software form that can that can take a network feed in and there was a question real quick um let me pull this up here about um will ptz optics camera firmware because i saw it posted before and i lost it need to be updated for ndi five if you have the latest firmware that's released right now for your camera it will work with ndi5 i'm running ndi5 tools um and i i'm not having any issues but but make sure you should always make sure your ptz optics cameras are up to date on the latest firmware check back and i believe there's social posts that usually go out for things like that but um you should be fine you shouldn't have any issues we even we're playing with it with the beta and and i know with some of the ndi tools um if if companies haven't updated their firmware to be backwards compatible there is a compatibility mode i know an ndi bridge there's a ndi4 compatibility mode that you put a check mark so you can use it so um that would be my my recommendation just make sure all your devices are all your cameras and i know i i'm as i'm bad as anybody where if it's not broke don't fix it but when it comes to ndi and having the most reliability less latency you want to keep that stuff up to date because the engineers are always working to minimize latency and fix any kind of potential problems that could arise so that's my two cents talk real quick stephen about um you use that you did a little demo using the huddlecam simpletrack 2 which also can be updated for ndi right so um i was using the simple track 2 which was the tracking camera that you guys saw earlier um and the cool part with that is being it is ndi and i have been playing with it even prior to the release of it just to see if we can iron out any any kind of complications with it having that ability inside of simple track i've had a lot of houses of worship that i've worked with that have this camera where like man this would be great to have ndi well now we brought ndi but it also has the ability to where you can add http call commands and i'm sure this is something that's going over some folks head so i'll break it down for you if you've ever used a stream deck or some kind of macro controller where you can press a button and it does multiple things this camera will allow you to trigger those things through the software so if you record a a shortcut a keyboard shortcut in vmix or obs you could take that ht http string put it in the software for the simple track and set up an area like say i wanted to set this area up so if i put my hand here it's going to trigger maybe to remove my lower third or go to a black screen these are things now available because of um all the all the advancements in the technology but ndi being having the ability to pull it in and do virtual zooms and things like that is pretty pretty big so it's really expanded julia the the uh the technical abilities of all these devices absolutely and and you the the key points you you mentioned are accessibility and affordability of course you know you know robotic tracking camera um obviously is going to cost more money because you know it it's it's a it's a robotic camera you know like but i mean i mean uh you know with all of these tools though it is bringing um this technology to more and more people really globally no absolutely absolutely um i'm just looking through did we miss anything here that we need to address in the in the comments sorry i'm trying to try to watch all the comments no no i'm sorry yeah no you're good i think we're getting most of them um yeah keep the comments coming i had to put my glasses on because my closed vision isn't so good yeah the comment is kind of small but yeah alan was asking questions about network um and sorry sorry allen i'm not not a network guru so to speak in and like i said i'm it's windows too so i can't help much there for mac i'd be able to help you um sounds like it's a it's a windows issue because every tuesday and it just so happens today is tuesday they do patch updates my suggestion again i'm not a network guru either if matt davis was in here he'd probably be able to throw some more examples out but i would suggest maybe try on installing it inside of your device manager reboot the computer and let windows find that driver again or if you have the actual driver for it the other thing you can do is take a usb if you have one usb network i guess you call it a dongle if you will and i use them a lot on my mac computers that don't have it and i know they work on windows so especially if you're trying to add more nics to the computer that might be an option for you i'm just throwing it out there but again i i am not a network guru either i know enough to be dangerous yeah like you said when all that fails i just unplug it and plug it back down there you go or reboot refresh but it's windows so it's temperamental so then lee loves in the house hey lee how's it going um but yeah i mean that's that's what uh i guess that's all we have do we have anything else julia no i don't i don't think so um one more question one more question come up using the ptz optics ndi 30 is there a software to make it auto track the pastor not with the not with the ptz optics cameras you would have to get the simple track too if you go to our sister company huddlecamhd.com you can look up the simple track too was the one i was demonstrating earlier um and really quick i'll jump to that camera if you if you guys want and i lots of houses of worship that we're working with are really enjoying this so this is what this is what you're looking for so this camera you can set the speed to it um and it will track me uh based on the area that i've that i've left for it and this is also the camera that i was talking about that you can set up http uh commands to trigger and usually what i do is in front of my rack here which you guys aren't seeing right now um i put a hotspot here so i can put my hand here or stand in front so it triggers but uh right now i don't have it uh set up jeremy yeah that's that's pretty sweet though that i've been watching tracking cameras for quite a while and and that's that's just an amazing tool to be able to use especially you know it with with a pastor that um that walks around a lot i i ran camera the center camera for a long time and you get a animated speaker who's back and forth constantly and it's like wow um yeah i i ran in camera enough where i would anticipate the movements of of the speaker and then i could stay ahead but um but yeah this is just phenomenal the the way things are going with with uh video tracking so i love that well we've got just about two minutes left do you have time for one more question sure um max asks he says my house audio is about six frames ahead of my sdi video what do you recommend to fix this yes typically in your video switcher however you're doing that you should be be able to add a video delay um so uh i don't know you know we'd need to know a little bit more about your system but typically typically you're at able to add a video delay in this um but man i've never heard where uh audio is that far ahead yeah typically typically the audio processing is causing audio to to be delayed from video but that's um you know that that should be a fairly easy fix with with adding a video delay into your into your system so um also let me see if i can find this really quick for you guys um behringer makes something i have two of these and we use them for when we have long really really long runs i'm talking you know six eight even a thousand feet right and it's it's a uh sounds doesn't have it anymore but i was just trying to get a picture for you what's called the behringer shark and basically you put your it has an input output on the back of it and you could set your delay for an xlr or quarter inch um for that audio in in milliseconds i mean it's it's pretty and it has a bunch of other features that i never use like you have your compressor your gates and things like that but if your hardware software solution doesn't have like jeremy said most of them do if you're using wirecast vmix obs they all have delays but if you're not using something like that that has that this is a great option and you don't have to go with behringer i think i paid 100 or 120 bucks for mine i'm sure there's other companies that make it but i like i said i had two behringer sharks and they were they worked great for what i needed for but more or less use this for live sound as jeremy was saying it was it's kind of weird that you you need that for uh that distance usually like i said i see it right jeremy like a thousand to two thousand feet that's when you start seeing second delays yep yeah for sure um and there's there's one more question in there about a link for that huddlecam uh tracking tracking camera so if you guys want to post that i don't have that um readily available but i know you guys do but yeah this is exciting um you know the the conversation that we're having around this and and i'm just i think we'll have more and more of these discussions as people are adopting um ndi5 uh specifically so i know what you say it was released last friday or last week or something like that stephen so um so yeah i downloaded all the tools right away getting everything updated yeah and we're going to continue being able to report on it matt davis our head of i.t and and engineering him and i tend to like to really break the rules a little bit and try to you know break things as much as we possibly can so we'll be able to at least report back if it made our networks cry and you know those types of things but we'll you know future episodes we'll we'll keep you posted right you guys break the rules no [Music] well i just put the link to the huddlecam hd simple track 2 in into our uh youtube chat um so that's kind of the chat that i've been monitoring right now so well thanks so much for a great conversation stephen and jeremy again you know we will be with you the last tuesday of the month at 11 a.m eastern time and that's august 31st according to my calendar so please send us your question salt talk at ptzoptics.com you

Channel: PTZOptics

Views: 815

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: Live Streaming Camera, PTZOptics, Broadcast Camera

Id: V3QLKpAr0aA

Length: 67min 10sec (4030 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 27 2021