Many of Trump's allies are coming out to defend him, including, of course, one of his sons. They said we're no better than some of these third world countries around the world. You know, we are literally trying to imprison political opponents. We're better than this. Eric Trump, I'd like you to meet. Well, Eric Trump, this first different than the first verse. Everyone Maybe lock her up goes to lock him up. I don't know. I might lock him up. I don't know. I like lock her up a little bit more. If that was gone awry or if that was anybody in the Trump family and we lied on a federal forum, we'd be in jail for the rest of our lives. Eric Trump's brother also once posed with a picture of Hillary Clinton behind bars That picture was actually on his gun. By the way, Eric Trump's wife, well, once called it fun. President Trump said yesterday that Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer needed to lift coronavirus restrictions and the crowd started chanting, lock her up. He wasn't doing anything, I don't think, to provoke people to threaten this woman at all. He was having fun at a Trump rally. And Eric Trump's father. Well, lock them all up. It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country because he could be in jail Yeah, well, I agree with you. I used to just be quiet and I agree with you 100%. And what about Omar? Well, she gets caught harvesting what the hell is going on? I hope your US attorney is involved. What? What is going on with Omar? I've been reading these reports for two years. About how corrupt and crooked she is. Let's get with it. Let's get with. All right. Joining us now, CNN political commentator and former Trump campaign adviser David Urban. And former Democratic governor of Massachusetts, Deval Patrick. David, let me start with you. So, Hillary Clinton, it's okay, but not if it's Donald Trump. Well, Wolf, there's maybe Eric Trump should go back and listen to that. The nineties Alanis Morissette song is in an ironic thing. Maybe. Maybe he'd get a little get a good cigar that, you know, it's not that much more to say about it. David, I want to get to Deval in a moment, but you know Trump well he's trying to make himself out to be a martyr today. What do you think his mindset is behind the scenes? So. So. So, Wolf, you know, Jake Tapper earlier alluded to this. You know, there's a there's a famous Seinfeld episode where George Costanza says to Jerry, you know, if you believe it isn't actually a lie and And I think that's the case here. I think the the the prosecutors here, the Justice Department, can have a very tough time proving the mens rea. I know there's lots of folks sitting on your panel like Norm and others who think it's going to be it's going to be easier than that. But I think they're gonna have a tough time proving that. And so I think that Trump is the former president is is probably nervous. I agree with Governor Christie's assessment that he goes to bed at night thinking, oh, shit, I could actually end up in jail here at some point. And that's a real probability It's interesting, Deval, here's how the House speaker, Kevin McCarthy, is characterizing this historic moment. Listen, you're entitled to raise a question. You're entitled to question whether it was honest or not. That's the uniqueness of the First Amendment. That's the uniqueness of America. But you know what? You shouldn't be prosecuted for your thoughts. And the difference here is when Hillary Clinton said it, nothing happened to her when they said it in Georgia's election, nothing happened to them either. So, clearly, he incited a mob to attack the U.S. Capitol. That's more than just the thought. How do you counter this narrative? Well, if you're asking me, Wolf, first of all, I think they do have more than enough proof in this so-called speaking indictment. That Donald Trump knew that he had lost the election. But even if he believed he'd won the election, that doesn't justify him setting a mob on the Capitol, him trying to send fake electors to disrupt the count and install himself or continue his own power. You know, if he if Donald Trump believed in the Easter Bunny, it wouldn't justify him, you know, raiding Easter mass and turning everybody out. It doesn't. In some ways, it's secondary. What he believed, what he what he did was try to steal the election and after having lost it to Joe Biden, and if our nation of laws means anything, indeed, if we are governed by laws and not by personalities, then it's important that someone who incites a coup as Donald Trump and his coconspirators did face the consequences of our laws. You know, Deval we learned just the other day that former President Obama privately warned Warren Biden at a private luncheon they had not to underestimate Trump's political strength. Do you think Biden is underestimating? I don't know. And I and I in in a way I don't care, Wolf. And I say that respectfully. I think President Biden is doing a wonderful, wonderful job. And I think part of his of his good service is to let the Justice Department do its job. Without without interference. And I know Merrick Garland. I know his respect for the institution. I know his care. You know, I wish that this whole prosecution and particularly the assignment of the special prosecutor had come earlier than it did. But it came in many respects when it should have and and we are where we are because of the care that DOJ has taken and taken independently. And I think that's enormously important. It is very important indeed. David, 2024 Republican candidate Ron DeSantis made a promise if he's elected president. Listen to this. And then on bureaucracy, you know, we're going to have all these deep state people. You know, we're going to start slitting throats on day one and be ready to go. You're going to see a huge, huge outcry because Washington wants to protect its own. But at the end of the day, this is a city that's failed. This country So, David, what do you make of that comment regarding the federal workforce? Yes, so so so, Wolf, obviously red meat, right? Red meat for the base. I heard a visit from a swami on earlier on the program saying he's going to dismantle the FBI. And I think functionally, it's just impossible to do. Right. I know that they're probably many Americans who could question the size of the federal bureaucracy, the federal government, and and think that it could be slimmed down. Right. Obviously, I think there are a lot of folks who think they know. Well, there's bad bad weather events in Washington, D.C. that have, you know, nonessential personnel, you know, don't don't show up for work today. And they think, well, that should be the federal government should be slimmed down to that size. Or if those essential personnel are. And I think that's that's a legitimate complaint. But the the way to vocalize that, I don't believe is is it's, you know, call for heads on pikes after Election Day. David Urban and Deval Patrick, gentlemen, thank you very, very much.
