Episode Thirty-Eight: True Crime | Violating Community Guidelines

foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] well I guess there's actually no Gap in recording because this comes out every Monday yeah it's gonna say we're back yeah but it's you guys listen to this every Monday so but the real fans do you [ __ ] it's like how um you know like back in the day they put like commercials in between so like but if you watch it just like on like a streaming service there's just like that weird gap of where the commercial would have gone but they like Fade to Black and it's like you'll never know the killer the Killer is yeah next week it is next week all right guys what are we talking about today we're talking about True Crime which of course as per usual we have some disclaimers uh first of all being both of us are sensitive to light today yes um yeah so we're we're looking super sick and cool wearing sunglasses inside and uh they fixed the AC in this room so you guys don't have to look at us sweating through our little skinny t-shirts exactly yeah all right um there is a serious disclaimer though because obviously when we're talking about True Crime there are a lot of variables at play there's a lot of controversy around the popularization of True Crime online and whether or not it should be you know a part of Pop Culture the way that it is so it's a sensitive topic given that the more recent the tragedy the more painful it is for the victims families obviously especially when it's an ongoing investigation yeah so we in no way are attempting to sensationalize or make jokes of these situations at all we're more aiming to discuss and we're interested in why True Crime intrigues us as human beings and internet users specifically because the internet has really helped this become a widespread phenomenon of like consistently the most listened to podcasts are comedy and True Crime yeah which is like why what is it about wanting to drive to work and listen to how someone was violently murdered yeah and it's crazy that it's also like a hybrid now like a lot of the top comedy podcasts are about murder which is scary in itself I know not scary but um definitely a point of intrigue yeah I'd say yes so we want to get that out of the way because we know the internet Warriors the keyboard Warriors will that'll be the first comment if we don't address it and we obviously agree you know this is we're coming at this from an angle of analysis and interest as as to why this has happened not so much that it's happened yeah so I'm just gonna out of the way for you [ __ ] I also feel like there's a little bit self-explanatory there's just there's gonna be a mention of murder and suicide so if those are sensitive topics for you maybe skip on this one guys yeah or skip to the end when we do the ad reads exactly maybe don't be as loyal this time yeah but we're gonna start talking about True Crime a little bit about it do you want to take it away or should I I'll take it away Cuzzo all right actually you take it away Cuzzo all right true crime is a non-fiction literary podcast and film genre in which the author examines an actual crime and details the actions of real people associated with and affected by criminal events the crimes most commonly include murder about 40 focus on Tales of serial killers I mean I I couldn't imagine a podcast doing well when it talks about like famous tax evasions sure actually even though white collar crime is interesting yeah now that I said that out loud I'm like I would love to like hear about like Enron and stuff like that yeah yeah all right next week or white color crime podcast comes out it is interesting to um how rich people play by different set of rules in life yeah I think that's very interesting so yeah it is really crazy and so continuing on True Crime comes in many forms such as books films podcasts and television shows I love that it's also in the newspaper sometime um many Works in this genre recount high profile Sensational crimes such as the JonBenet Ramsey killing John Wayne Gacy BTK Killer and O.J Simpson murder case and the Pamela Smart murder While others are devoted to more obscure slayings True Crime Works uh can impact the crimes they cover in the audience who consumes it the genre is often criticized for being insensitive to the victims and their families and is described by some as trash culture yeah I equate it to like you know you would never go up nor would you ever be in a situation where you could go up and ask someone damn your daughter got murdered yeah what happened yeah that is so you can't do that I know like dude so I heard that your daughter got like allegedly stabbed by her husband is that correct yeah it's like that's so awful to ask someone how many times well you tell me yeah do you have any pictures did she bleed out just like you can't yeah but there is this insatiable need to know yeah um and and I think that it's just rubber necking to the nth degree it's rubber necking and we've somehow made it culturally okay where there's an Avenue where you can ask those questions and have that Curiosity and you get the answers yeah so I get it I definitely get it I do too I feel like it's kind of a similar thing that what happens with like internet or like celebrities are like internet influencers where like these people are no longer real yeah so like you can ask like sort of invasive questions but you realistically would never ask that anyone in real life right yeah or that's how it happens online is we get comments that are just so are you out of your mind why would you say that to someone and it's because of that there's a screen yeah literally in between you and them they just don't realize like I was talking about this the other day this is a sidebar but like I went on a date with a girl one time who said that her sister hated me and she had me blocked and so at the end of the day she facetimes her sister her and her sister's just like yeah I don't like you and I was like like it was the thing like it I understand if you don't like my content but like imagine like imagine you're on a date with someone and then someone's like yeah my sister went through like your social media to 2017. she hates you like keep it to yourself maybe by the way it'd be such a weird thing she went on a date with you just to be able to say that to you yeah my family [ __ ] hates you dude oh dude yeah sometimes I see like influencers or like they took a picture with someone and then the person like who posted the pictures like I [ __ ] hate this person we're like what's your name again I just recognize you from Tick Tock yeah that's the worst yeah so humbled I know yeah it's like that one time um at VidCon this girl came up to me she was a very sweet girl but she's like I love your music and I was like okay I have never sang like like ever before you just gotta say thanks take the picture and go yeah you know yes but yeah so back to True Crime it just feels like these people ask these questions because they're cannot they don't understand that these people are real yeah yeah yes it's also I mean again this is a common theme on this podcast is um we really encourage touching grass we encourage leaving the confines of your mother's basement swiping the crumbs from your neck beard yes and seeing the Sun during the day yes we really encourage that you know put the Mountain Dew down it's gonna be okay and part of that is you know there are certain social Customs online that have somehow become normal yeah [ __ ] like that yes or the comments under something like this if complex or NPR posts something like serial killers are up 20 yeah and one of the comments is like why is he kind of hot yeah it's like you could never this would never have been allowed to to flourish if the internet weren't there too so imagine your aunt got killed and you're in the courtroom and your friend turns to you because she's there for emotional support and she's like why is he kind of hot that's wild you'd be like can you just like keep that thought to yourself I'm gonna kill you yeah it is but I kind of understand like True Crime that talks about very old crimes yeah like if you're talking about the Hindenburg and making jokes I'm like I'm okay with that but the idea of someone who maybe got murdered last year and you're like you know she shouldn't have been what like I'm like it's just not yeah yeah it's not the comedy you think it is yeah even things like the Black Dahlia Murder where it's like you don't even know their identity yeah it still feels kind of it feels okay to talk about it but it's still icky because it's like that was a human being yeah it's still it's some level of permission but it's still like Ugh yeah so anyway keeping all that in mind we're gonna go into the history of I guess morbid curiosity is really what it is so the human session with morbid curiosity dates back pretty far around like Circa 1617 and please forgive me Zhang Ying use the book of swindles which is a late Ming Dynasty collection of stories about allegedly true cases of fraud this is the 1600s hundreds of pamphlets broadsides chat books and other Street literature about murders and other crimes were published from 1550 to 1700 in Britain as literacy increased and cheap new printing methods became widespread they varied in style some were Sensational While others conveyed a moral message so I get that you know you want to maybe retell in a dramatic way something that's happened to teach a lesson to kids yeah or to whatever to like be safer most were purchased by The Artisan class and above as the lower classes did not have the money or time to read them and they didn't know how ballads were also created the verses of which were posted on walls around towns that were told from the perpetrators point of view in an attempt to understand the psychological motivations of the crime oh my God imagine making a musical of your slaughtering like and then it doing well yeah but it's written from the point of view of your murderer you kick Mamma Mia and wicked off the stage it's just like you killing people it's Broadway Sarah showers murder that's what he is that's actually kind of crazy that is really oh my God to understand the psychological motivations of the crime yes if anything we need to sympathize with the killer yeah I I don't understand this why would they do this I don't know the whole premise of Silence of the Lambs how did you do it I've never actually seen that really that's the one with the lotion in the hole Yeah Yeah and the Jody Foster and yeah was it Jody Foster in the hole yeah with the lotion she had to cover herself in lotion no I don't think so wait a note it was in the hole doesn't he you I just said I didn't I've never seen it um I've seen holes love that um anyway let's keep going I don't even know what I was talking about just now um we were talking about sorry we had to cut because Britain got hit by a car yeah no no we were talking about who fell in the hole and it's Brooke Smith yes so it wasn't Jody Foster that was putting lotion on no Brook Smith is the oh my God I don't even know if that's the actor Brooke Smith played Hannah Montana's mom Brooke Smith is not Jody Foster wait that's Brooke look look Shields you're thinking Brook Shields is different from Brook Smith Brook Smith is a I I just her face looks like any any other white woman oh I couldn't describe he's just like me for real yeah but she has brown hair oh okay so starting in 1889 Scottish lawyer William roughhead wrote and published yes he uses teeth um and published essays for six decades about notable British murder trials he attended with many of these essays collected in the 2000 Book classic crimes love that one classic crimes everybody knows them I feel like it's in one of those like huge books like the um the world record books what is it uh yeah or the Ripley's Believe It or Not thing or like the Guinness World Records there's like pop-ups in it yeah it's just like a murder scene but there's like a pop-up there's a puzzle that you have to do yes it sings on a certain page from the perspective of the murderer to teach us a lesson in psychology it was um so an American Pioneer of the genre was Edmund Pearson who was influenced in his style of writing about crime by DeQuincy Pearson published a series of books of this type start starting with studies in murder in 1924 and concluding with more studies in murder in 1936. murder and more murder I like that he didn't go murdered too yeah he went more murder stuff too it's real this time her word of a 1964 anthology of Pearson's stories contains an early mention of the term True Crime as a genre Truman capotz Capote Capote Capote coyote his non-fiction novel In Cold Blood published in 1965 is usually credited with establishing the modern novelistic style of the genre and the one that rocketed it to great profitability also I want to read this first of all I've never read it I feel like it's terribly hard to read probably it's not old English it's 1965. they were so pretentious back then using a thousand words to describe like someone's dress yeah murder the thousand words in the book um also Stanley didn't include this in the research since it's fiction and we're focusing on non-fiction but even before In Cold Blood authors like Arthur Conan Doyle and Edgar Allan Poe really Incorporated that morbid curiosity and like subject matter into their works I mean when you think about Sherlock Holmes solving these criminal Mysteries and Edgar Allan Poe's like the Raven and all of his famous poems are so dark and that's why people like them and that's why um even um Alfred Hitchcock and things like that it's just so influenced by that yeah just crime and just dark nature of the human spirit I think that it deserves a notable mention obviously we're not it's not true crime but it's cool to see how real life events not cool let me retract that it's interesting to see how real life events and the horror of what humans can do to each other has inspired and intertwined with what becomes popular in pop culture yeah you know of inspiring movies and and fiction books and things like that even music I mean it's really interesting yeah we what we find inspiration in so I thought that was obviously we wouldn't include that because it's fiction but it's still interesting yeah I think about that all the time with like doctor shows yeah where like you have to I have like a doctor like probably advise you know what you're writing because it just could quickly not make sense yeah but I imagine like the doctors are like telling like actual stories that they've encountered sure you know and I'm like oh that's you know my butt plug being stuck in my butt could Inspire the next House episode right yeah right oh that would be so cool I actually inspired an episode of House oh yeah or like law order SVU it always is like it's this is like based off a true story but not it's an actual that's yeah yeah the victim was found with a Elmer's glue stick in her hole yes yeah um so there are forms of distribution it's gonna make me weird about magazines uh magazine the first True Crime magazine True Detective was published in 1924 it featured fairly matter of fact accounts of crimes and how they were solved uh during the genres Heyday before World War II 200 different True Crime magazines were sold on newsstands that's simply too much 200 yeah with 6 million magazines sold every month well I guess you know people are eating it up the covers of the magazines generally featured women being menaced in some way by potential crime criminal perpetrator with the scenarios being more intense in the 1960s just once again being Menace yes that's all we'd like to see the like the 60s were like the decade of love but just like all the True Crime gets horrific actually dude there's so many there's so many horrible things that happen in the 60s yeah because like hitchhiking yeah that's crazy I went on a date with a girl who said that she's hitchhiked in the past year and I was like there's oh my God who am I dating but like um some introspection needs to go on but like I was like do you like have you ever like like have you ever heard of murder you know yeah I would be too scared was she ugly no no they don't like the ugly ones I I think they go for you know anyone anyone yeah as long as they're hitchhiking that's true I feel like also around this time just historically speaking like pop culture historically was this like Creature from the Black Lagoon King Kong things like that where it's always a woman getting like yeah gripped by the big gorilla or whatever it's like the Damsel in Distress it is you know but they die yeah you don't want that like a Dunst in distress yeah because like if you saw like a honestly if a man got like picked up by a large ape and like kill I'd be like damn he's dead yeah no one's going to save him um there are books on True Crime often Center The Sensational shocking or strange events particularly murder even though murder makes up less than 20 percent of reported crime it is present in most true crime stories yeah because what the [ __ ] yeah imagine like a book of jaywalking right [Laughter] teaching me how to do it yeah um typically these book reports on a crime from the beginning of its investigation to its legal proceeding serial killers have a highly profitable sub-genre some true crime works are instant books produced quickly to capitalize on popular demand these have been described as more than formulaic and Hyper conventional Others May reflect years of thoughtful research and inquiry and may have considerable literary merits there is Norman mailers the Executioner song from 1979 which was the first book in the genre to win a Pulitzer Prize wow that's that's really something uh Truman Capote is In Cold Blood the best-selling True Crime book of all time it details the 1959 murders of four members of the Clutter family in the small farming community of Holcomb Kansas the armpit of America and the um what's that called Tornado Alley Kansas yeah yeah isn't it crazy the US is the only country with all natural disasters sounds about right yeah and like it's crazy what you have to worry about I've never worried about a tornado but hurricanes definitely yeah we had we had tornado drills in uh North Texas really yeah what'd you do for him slow down walk outside and just let the Lord take you obviously that's the redneck thing what's that noise it's a tornado siren get inside um shoot at it and rules The Stranger Beside Me about ten buddy um oh my God we could do a whole [ __ ] episode on people's obsession with Ted Bundy uh yeah they like I it's kind of crazy to me why women are like they're like you they're hot like why would you say that he's hot yeah you know he killed women yeah like he would have been a victim babe he's not hot I think that they're just like I could change him or like he wouldn't kill me you know like or like it's the I think it's the charm and Charisma it's that yeah it's like I would be the one yeah you'd fall in love with or whatever yeah that like romantic sizing of yeah he would kill you I'm so sorry you would be dead holy [ __ ] who was I talking to who was I talking hurry hurry oh my God okay we were on tour and we were at uh I think it was West Palm Beach that girl who came up to us and she was like yeah I went to I flew down here from Wisconsin yeah and she they used to rent like her school used to rent out that's right Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment and he used to kill people in they would throw parties there god dude you that is [ __ ] up that's wild I know I was like that that was [ __ ] wild to hear yeah I guess what else do you do in Wisconsin though eat cheese and party in Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment tip a cow oh I guess you could yeah tractor tipping my um I had a Vine one time about cow tipping because my grandma um the cows would lay down in like the winter and then the cat would come lay where the cow was because it was warm but then the cow would return to where it was sitting and the cat was crushed up against the cow it died but like um simply move yeah move sorry um where does a cow eat lunch at the at the cow Cafe at the calf bateria uh I was almost I was almost there I'm so sorry I was hit with a shovel when I was a kid [Music] hey guys it's Brittany if you're a long time fan of the Pod you know I speak Spanish but sometimes I wish I had picked up another language on top of it like Italian they're very similar and I wish I was able to immerse myself in the culture the way I can with Spanish so if you're like me and there's a foreign language that you regret not learning in school it's never too late to start with Babel Babel is the language learning app that sold more than 10 million subscriptions thanks to Babel's addictively fun and easy bite-sized language lessons you can finally cross learning that new language off your 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vcg that's babble.com vcg for up to 55 off your subscription Babble language for Life hey guys Brittany here now listen before you book any brunch you pour over lists and lists of reviews so why not do the same when you're booking a doctor's appointment with ZocDoc you can see real verified patient reviews to help find the right doctor for you ZocDoc is a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed take your insurance and are available when you need them on ZocDoc you can find every specialist Under the Sun whether you're trying to straighten those teeth fix an achy back get that mold checked out or anything else ZocDoc has you covered Lord knows I've got enough skin issues on my own and I've used ZocDoc before to find a dermatologist I can trust zocdoc's mobile app is as easy as ordering a ride to a restaurant or getting delivery to your house search find and book doctors with a few Taps find and review local doctors read verified patient reviews now when you walk into that doctor's office you're all set to see someone in your network who gets you every month millions of people use zogdoc and I'm one of them it's my go-to whenever I need to find and book a quality doctor so go to zocdoc.com vcg and download the Zuck doc app for free then start your search for a top-rated doctor today many are available within 24 hours that's z-o-c-d-o-c.com vcg.com BCG foreign [Laughter] Larson's The Devil in the White City which is crazy tea what is it about it's about H.H Holmes who um if y'all don't know about H.H Holmes he was like a serial killer in the active in Chicago in the late 1890s around the World's Fair and there is an incredible series of episodes on HH Holmes on the podcast last podcast on the left have you ever listened to them no it's uh three comedians male and they are so funny and what I appreciate about them is is they pick these old ones you know like the old 1890s like obviously no one's alive who could remember it but it's not so much making fun of it it's making fun of him as a serial killer like you are such a loser dude yeah you're gonna like this is what you dedicate your life to and he was a swindler and all this it's very I mean I the first time I listened to these episodes I was driving on my way to work at my awful insurance job and I was crying laughing to the point where I had to pull over on the side of the road because I couldn't see I was laughing so hard yeah like it is oh my God it's so good I can't recommend it enough so if you I mean obviously you're listening to this episode you have an interest somewhat yeah you know True Crime I would really recommend it because he sucks first of all HH Holmes and then um God some of the [ __ ] he got up to yeah crazy man he did he how many people did he kill I don't know but he built this it's called the murder hotel which is what AHS Hotel was kind of based on wait the Cecil hotel is in Los Angeles that's different so but a hotel is based on the Cecil Hotel OT oh yeah the ah yes yeah too well though I mean slay there's a bunch of um in the murder Hotel HH Holmes he would hire contractors to like build certain parts of this hotel fire them say that their work was insufficient or whatever they would and then hire other contractors that way he never had to pay anyone it seems like your work is subpar built this entire Hotel doors that led to Nowhere stairs that led to secret rooms like vaults Chambers like very scary rooms that no no one hey yeah no one knew how to get to um and he would like kill people and leave their bones in there and when he was finally caught right if he died I don't remember um oh my god when the police found this hotel yeah wild wild I really it's that [ __ ] where it's like how does the human brain even come up with how to hurt people in that way yeah I mean I assume it's like Asbestos and all the Mercury and this and I would agree they're applying like a lead directly to their eyeballs dude if the boomer generation has like lead poisoning can you even imagine their parents God I'm surprised I can speak no yeah like you know what I always think about um if you were a murderer back in the day and you got caught you're actually a [ __ ] idiot because it was so easy there was no like fingerprints and like if they got like your [ __ ] if no there was no like DNA so like if they got your fingerprints that you'd like yeah yeah yeah you had to want to get caught yeah back then because it was so easy probably I know and then it's just so [ __ ] stupid you actually were stupid yeah anyway I really recommend last practice on the left they're they're really funny in 2006 Associated content stated that since the start of the 21st century the genre of writing that was growing the quickest was true crime the majority of readers of True Crime books are women go figure and there are lots of interesting analyzes that I found online and also what Stanley LinkedIn here and there is a book by Laura Browder in which she says the interviews I conducted with a group of True Crime fans suggest that many of them read True Crime to help themselves cope with the patriarchal violence they have encountered in the past and fear in the present yeah absolutely yeah like I mean I could understand if you're trying to like learn how to be safer like it makes sense that men wouldn't care as much yeah because they've run at night with headphones on and no mace yeah because they don't have to worry about it so like it's just a weight in a like a way to like uh arm yourself with like knowledge absolutely yeah it's arming yourself with knowledge um and a sense of Comfort but I guess being seen yeah you know like that that fear you have of going out alone yeah is valid because this [ __ ] happens and I think that it's important to talk about but I think that the level as with anything the internet has taken it to a level that is um dismissive of the original intention yeah you know like it's it helps to be in the know of how these people do it you know like and I see it on Tick Tock all the time of putting zip ties on someone's car to mark that car to know like follow her when she leaves her she leaves her job at this time yeah that [ __ ] like these are all ploys that people like this use when they want to harm someone and men don't have to think about it so of course it makes sense but it's also like and then they did what yeah and where was her body [ __ ] I mean there is like some good advice from like True Crime people like I am some lady was like you know if a man is asking you for help he's probably gonna do something horrible yes because men literally never ask for help exactly a man comes up to you in the grocery store parking lot and he looks like able-bodied and he's like can you help me with my groceries a man doesn't even ask how like after a man doesn't even ask for directions why would he help you with his [ __ ] like ask need help with groceries you know what I mean why would that be where he Stoops down to ask for help very valid um so we talked about books there's also films and television true crime documentaries have been a growing medium in the last several decades I would say consistently number one on Netflix yeah one of the most influential documentaries in this process was The Thin Blue Line directed by Errol Errol Morris this documentary among others features reenactments and although other documentary filmmakers choose not to use them since they dramatized the truth yeah this one for whatever reason did use it other prominent documentaries include Paradise Lost the Child Murders At Robin Hood Hills making a murderer which was crazy the internet was wild when that came out the Jinx and the keepers the keepers dude what is the keepers oh my God it's about abuses within the Catholic church and um murders yes and it is oh my it's one of those like when there's religion attached to it yeah that scares me shitless yes and the abuse that some of these women went through is just missing women stuff like that nuns yeah like nuns and school children Wild so dark so uh anyway there's so many more in the early 1990s a boom of True Crime films began in Hong Kong as well podcasts if you want to take that um so yeah podcast with the True Crime theme are a recent Trend the 2014 True Crime podcast serial broke podcasting records when it achieved 5 million downloads on iTunes quicker than any previous podcast as of September 2018 it has been downloaded more than 340 million times did you ever listen to this uh no it was wild I think I listened to my favorite murder because my ex did and so we just would listen every time it came out but I kind of stopped listening because I love love is a strong word I like them but they spend a solid okay as people who ramble they spend a solid 30 minutes of the beginning of the podcast just talking about themselves I'm gonna get to the point yeah no I would yeah that was a reason why I stopped listening I feel like the difference though is when you structure it as all right we're gonna tell you guys about yeah this thing and we have this prepared for today you know it's like a get to it but the more it grows and the more that their personalities come through I get well maybe they were just listening to fans yeah they're like I wish you guys would just talk about your weeks more we get that comment a lot yeah and it's like we live together I don't there's nothing to talk about yeah like I saw you in MMO yeah yesterday today leaving the bathroom yeah and then you had to walk by the bathroom yes and there's really nothing to discuss there yes my eyelashes melted off I'm sorry yes so I feel like that is that happens with a lot of I I don't know I appreciate a podcast which is why we wanted to do something like this that teaches yeah you know or in forms and if there's room for banter there is but I agree about my favorite murder I was like yeah I just think like so the they basically tell like about like murders and it's like a story you know like imagine if someone was like I have to tell you the story of JonBenet Ramsay but here is 30 minutes of what I did this week and I totally understand that they were probably listening to fans but you're like all right what is happening but yes they seem like nice people and I'm sorry guys yeah they were I would say though cereal was a trendsetter in itself to really popularize true crime yeah and and tap into that market that I feel like in the podcasting space no one really had before my favorite murder was the first to make it like a comedy yeah which is on paper so awful yeah but I mean one of the most successful podcasts ever I would argue so they tapped into some Market there as well that no one had done before so it's it's interesting to see how it develops I like um I know I've definitely bought their book so like they probably make a lot of money we should write a book we should yeah you can do it and they can even read I was gonna say we have to learn how to read first damn yes um anyway it has been so cereal was one of the first ones like we said it's been followed by other True Crime podcasts such as dirty John which was wild too what is dirty John dirty John was about just this dude named John people killed in the porta potty sorry you're not wrong um just this like crazy dude named John and some Podunk Town yeah it's a wild story um and it was just some guy that went out there one of those ones where they go out and just talk to rednecks and kind of make fun of them but it's like there's something deeper here yeah my favorite murder uh last podcast on the left that's why we drink up and vanished and then Park cast series such as Cults female criminals and Mind's Eye someone knows something and many more podcasts have now expanded to more sites such as Spotify Apple music YouTube where you can find Art podcasters like And subscribe yeah if you guys want to leave a comment too and many more they exist to provide others an easy way to learn about True Crime murders and Mysteries because why would I want to learn it the hard way yeah you get murdered you get murdered I learned it the hard way exactly yeah Spotify has an expanding number of True Crime podcasts with rotten mango conviction American Panic bed of lies catch and kill among many more this genre has been on the rise as psychologist Amanda Vickery said her report found women were most drawn to true crime stories that gave them tips for spotting danger and staying alive period yeah um it's been speculated that fear could play a role in the popularity of True Crime podcasts yeah what's that thing keep your friends close put your enemies closer yeah like information about serial killers yeah yeah um these podcasts often recount horrific crimes which triggers the fear response and the release of adrenaline in the body oh you guys are all Adrenaline Junkies that makes sense you guys should try skydiving that's why you guys want to listen to us talk about Bronies adrenaline due to the possibility of binging podcast adrenaline rushes can be experienced in quick bursts another explanation of the popularity of True Crime podcast is due to the serialized nature of crime in which events happen one after another easy to follow yeah yeah podcasted explore a crime episodically can utilize this aspect in their storytelling yeah so the real life impacts which I mean is how do you define it because there's so many you know are these stories inspiring people to repeat them yeah are they fear-mongering are they really you know just inspiring people to be more well protected yeah um it's a whole different it's a whole spectrum of like how something this dark can affect the human psyche when you listen to it like that so early Monday yeah no it's crazy so the investigative process of the True Crime genre can lead to changes in the cases being covered which is wild yeah when you get the internet involved which we did an episode on crime solved by the internet yeah I want to listen to that too very interesting such as when Robert Durst seemingly confessed to murder in the documentary The Jinx and was arrested like what in the middle of an ongoing investigation a study conducted in 2011 in Nebraska showed that consuming non-fiction crime shows AKA True Crime is correlated with an increased fear of being a victim of crime as the frequency of watching True Crime shows increase support for the death penalty increased while support for the criminal justice system decreased because you see how [ __ ] flawed it is yeah oh that is so [ __ ] should that wait wait yeah I mean increase fear of being a victim of a crime I don't know I feel like I'm trying to think about back before True Crime I mean I was just always super afraid of men too yeah like even before that I don't I actually can't gauge if the severity of like my fear of men hasn't create you know what I mean yeah I think it's you're told from me from being a little girl you know to be cautious of where you are and who's around you and men aren't taught that yeah so this definitely I talk about this with my mom sometimes because I don't know if you have any living grandparents no my grandparents are very my grandma and my mimi in particular is so terrified yeah of the world and I don't know if we've discussed this on the podcast before but the world view that old people are fed via Facebook and Via Fox News and even CNN I mean they're all the same is so not realistic yeah and if you don't have the brain power or the knowledge to get online and get a more accurate depiction of you know how the world is even though the internet's not much of an upgrade because of Doom scrolling yeah like that is such a terrifying mental state to exist in at all times yeah grandma is constantly sending me Facebook Links of girl abducted here they're using this don't if they put a 20 bill under your windshield Whopper they're trying to kill you yeah they're gonna put you in the van yeah you know if you don't let them get you in that van I'm like maybe it's Tuesday on it's 10 a.m it's a Mazda how dangerous gonna be it's not a van he was driving an SUV so it's like to constantly live in that state of and to worry about you know your daughter or your grandchild is I can't imagine and it's such a warped view of reality that is wild that old people are obviously victims of it yeah but that world view is curated for them yeah it's it's wild so I think that we're kind of victims of that as well as women or you know yes yeah I think like um also they weren't raised with the internet so it's just like it seems like they're being bombarded with like horrific stuff all the time and that's also a lot of people who are like on the internet now like it's like there are a lot of horrible events happening but the thing is is that they probably happened in the same amount um it's just like now we know about them exactly you know your Gram Graham used to live in complete ignorance you know Bliss but little did you know there's probably like four murderers in her town right yeah yeah oh my God have you ever looked at that uh predator-like map yeah oh my God finding out how many people are predators in your [ __ ] wish I didn't know it's crazy yeah but who uh live around a school yeah wild well I guess they can't if you're a registered sex offender you can't live within what how many miles of a school I think it's like a hundred feet the thing is is like you do you is it any kid because I imagine walking down the street must be difficult even if it's not near a school if you see a child do you have to cross the street I mean I see pre-teens and I always cross the street but that's out of fear yeah not out of want your ankles are so thick stop I'm scared I'm doing my hot girl walk why is your body lumping yes there is criticism obviously on the True Crime genre has been criticized as being disrespectful to Crime Victims and their families author Jack miles believes this genre has a high potential to cause harm and mental trauma to the real people involved yeah like sometimes I'll see something that I don't know how to feel like okay so on Tick Tock like the best friend of someone who's been murdered will like post this like funny like poking fun of like you know her like she would have wanted this I'm coping with humor and while coping with humor is a valid thing to do and I don't imagine that the rest of her family is as well yeah so yeah just because you cope with humor like I feel like you should probably not yeah you know or just joke privately in your own home exactly post it on the internet because that [ __ ] does not go away yeah and once it's out there you can't take it back so that is yeah I see that a lot or they use like a viral audio to talk about some of the most horrific trauma yeah ever seen yeah so so it's interesting True Crime media can be produced without the consent of the victim's family yeah which can lead them to being re-traumatized yeah dude imagine scrolling I mean I already like get kind of nervous when I'm scrolling my for you page and I see a video about you and uh and it's usually murdering something you know it's literally always like a good thing or like I saw like a video of like someone who was at like an airport like baggage claim and they saw you videoed you sure I'm just like I'm nervous that someone's gonna like I don't know do something weird talking about you and it's like usually a nice thing but I imagine you know it could easily cross over if like it's negative it's just like uncomfortable to see yeah yeah um I don't think that you're a murderer yes good I know you'll never guess what happened next that smell in the house I just think it's your bathroom I just don't open that closet door if you don't mind depending on the writer True Crime can adhere strictly to well-established facts in journalistic fashion or can be highly speculative writers can selectively choose which information to present and which to leave out in order to support their narrative artists have offered fact-based narratives blending fiction and historical reenactment I've always found those to be so cheese yeah like the reenactments of or the the um you ever watch those haunting shows um where they're like blind manner oh I don't know are you talking about like true haunting or like or it's like real people recounting I lived at this address and it is so haunted yeah this would happen and they find people that look kind of like the real person and they completely reenacted it's like the faucets would turn on and then you see dramatically like yeah a dish would fly across the room and then you see it yeah like a woman being like it's just like you ruined it yeah well it's like the same thing with like Civil War reenactments like they fire the guns and they drop and you're like I mean this is cheesy you know make it more believable [Laughter] the thing is is you're talking about like how it's like a reenactment I I hate when they blend fiction and like uh historical like um Quentin Tarantino does that a lot with his movies he did that for Inglorious Bastards where like it was like a fictional way that Hitler died and I was telling me Brad Pitt wasn't not to kill her he wasn't actually if his accent in that movie is atrocious yeah that is a blend of like four different Southern Accents yeah Appalachia is so easily like you can whatever but um yeah like I'm like this is kind of cheesy I feel like because it's obviously like him trying to be like this is what I would do in this situation right like it's like oh my God yeah yeah just prove it yeah show us go back in time but uh so there is the true crime internet Community the True Crime Community um sometimes I just lick this microphone why did I do that sorry Studio 71. One time I kissed my mom on the mouth and I accidentally stuck my tongue out why did so why would you say that I don't know I just felt like I should be honest okay um actually no one was asking for it I was a kid um so sometimes I referred to as the True Crime fandom is an online community which focuses on mass murders serial killers and similar criminals this is gonna be weird okay whenever someone's like there's like a mass murder and it's two people I kind of I'm like is it you know maybe I'm too literal about the situation what do you mean I assume Mass is like more than 10. Oh you mean when there's only two victims yeah like if you say a mass murder how many people usually attend a mask Catholic mass yes that's at least 200 people oh no but I just I so I didn't know that mass is just more than one yeah yeah I guess that is yeah yeah a few murder yeah a few murderers few murderer um so notable subjects of focus include Ted Bundy Jeffrey Dahmer Eric Harris Dylan Klebold James Holmes and oh God Jesus dot cars stick Russian name I just said like [ __ ] you backwards or something I summoned someone there's too many Z's there's only one okay and then Stanley comments L people yeah um the history of the True Crime Community can be considered a pre-internet phenomenon that was later brought to light by the internet uh hi can you say that hibristophilia the sexual attraction to those who have committed some form of wrongdoing is a well-known phenomena although the exact reason behind why it exists is unknown I can tell you mental illness yeah and tumblr.com wait yeah so there's an actual word for being attracted to people who are like murderers hibristophilia just gave some of you [ __ ] an identity the True Crime Community notably flourished due in part to the nature of websites such as Tumblr which allow easy sharing of materials related to The True Crime Community which I mean I wonder how Tumblr reacts yeah like like Executives at Tumblr like [ __ ] [ __ ] we got the Ted Bundy fanfiction's going crazy right now the number one trending like he's trying to delete it um so the wait wait there are characteristics the True Crime fandom shares many characteristics with other subcultures notably in the way of fan works such as writings and Fan Art focused around its subjects dude when I was on Tumblr I literally used to see and don't question what parts of the internet I was on because the Lord knows I'm I have my fingers in all of it yeah um Richard Ramirez fan art oh yeah like what's the Night Stalker yeah night something um because they thought he was hot and there would be gifts on my uh dashboard of like him in court yeah with handcuffs and people being like why does he look yeah I'm like that's insane genuinely what is that like if you uh we said it like earlier like you always you think that you're gonna be the only person not killed by this person right or like is it like how male validation is so intoxicating to the point where life that must be a powerful man in like the most literal sense and that he's killed people yeah like you want him to like you yeah that you're the exception or something about you is different he would pick you I don't know but it's also like the Bonnie and Clyde nature of it all yeah maybe that adrenaline and that life on the edge sort of lifestyle is attractive yeah I don't know you know that that's been talked about in music for a century you know where it's like he's on you're on the run with your boyfriend yeah robbed bank you did something I don't know even like Beyonce did a Bonnie and Clyde sort of tribute with her and Jay-Z it's like I there's something I guess romanticized yeah that's romantic about that your boyfriend standing trial and he's your boyfriend you don't love his [ __ ] there hey Skin three people alive yeah but not make their hearts yeah but he loves me he would never do that he is not capable of love he mirrors love back to me and it's real sweet hey guys Brittany here today's episode is sponsored by Honey the easy way to save When shopping on your iPhone or computer you all know we love honey on this podcast and it always comes in handy since we almost exclusively shop online thanks to Honey manually searching for coupon codes is a thing of the past honey is the free shopping tool that scours the internet for promo codes and applies the best one it finds to your card automatically so here's how it works imagine you're shopping at one of your favorite sites when you go to check out the honey button appears and all you gotta do is Click apply coupons wait a few seconds as honey searches for coupons it can find for that site and if it finds a working one you'll watch the prices drop Sarah and I recently moved and honey actually saved me some cash on some new bedroom furniture I bought it was about 10 15 so thanks honey now honey doesn't just work on desktop it works on your iPhone too just activated on Safari on your phone and save on the go so if you don't already have honey you could be straight up missing out and by getting it you you'll be doing yourself a solid and supporting the show I'd never recommend something I don't use so get honey for free at joinhoney.com vcg that's joinhoney.com vcg hey guys one more time it's Brittany do you ever see something online and you're not sure if that trending skin tint is really worth all the hype you wish you could get that new moisturizer as soon as possible instead of waiting three to five days for shipping if you're looking for an honest review on that new Celebrity Skin 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cup of water every day that's it no need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health to make it easy athletic greens is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs for your first purchase all you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com vcg again that is athleticgreens.com vcg to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance um this aspect has proven controversial as it has been equated by some to an equal equal to idolizing criminals yeah yeah this claim I've seen so many fan edits on Tick Tock of like criminals I'm like oh my God I get it if it's white collar crime because it's like [ __ ] yeah you cheated the system or like you stole from a corporation or whatever like the the white man celebration of like a Jordan Belfort yeah I I kind of understand that but when it's literally a Ted Bundy what are we doing dude I think white collar crime could like easily like you know it's a systemic issue sometimes too so that could be you know I don't I don't even I I think it's just yeah yeah yeah what did you just say about Ted Bundy when people are making edits of Ted Bundy it's like what are we doing yeah that's not anything that I can even remotely start to understand yeah other than you think he's physically attractive but it's not just that it's it's you think that him as a person and what he did is yeah I don't get it yeah Ted Bundy looks like he could work it like Six Flags the most average kind of ugly yeah he's so ugly and the fact that they use Zac Efron to like play him I was like that's what are you doing yeah doesn't make any sense um the claim is typically counted by the claim that the fanization fantasy Fascination is rooted in criminology as opposed to an ulterior motive it's definitely both um sub fandoms uh there's the Columbine massacre the Columbine massacre fandom is one of the largest oldest and best known examples of the True Crime he killed teenagers focused on the April 20th 1999 mass murder of Columbine High School in Columbine Colorado by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold participants in the Phantom are commonly known as Columbine liners Jesus Christ in our typically younger individuals who associate with Harris and Klebold as similarly misunderstood by the world there were they were just bigots yeah every like every time there's like a documentary like it you know they were bullied no they were bigots yeah yeah you you were a hateful person yeah to do something like that um and I've also been bullied and treated horribly I'd never have I ever brought a gun to school yeah thank God we got you out of school yeah and I don't know if I could laugh at that um the fandom has been the subject of numerous case studies yeah it's also I mean there are people who take inspiration from these people yeah and the only reason that happens is because the news networks and the journalists go into way too much detail on who these people are yeah their backgrounds they were misunderstood you know they they link to their Facebook that's still active yeah and they see Memes and things and people find an identity and a connection in these people don't give it that power the first time I saw that was um on uh during the pandemic yeah during the height of the black lives matter protests where it was all happening so rapidly one after another and all of the news articles would be focused on the person who who shot the gun the person who did this the person who did that we should be talking about the victim that was the first time in my life that it was reframed like that that was like why are we giving it so much attention yeah you are inspiring others yeah whether you meant to or not because you think you're it's an uh what's it called your journalistic integrity yeah that you're reporting all the facts we don't want to know the [ __ ] facts of who did it we want to know the victim and how we can help yeah and so I feel like this is a bit it can be solved just stop [ __ ] doing this when this happens I you know it's always and it's the whole idea of um which pictures you use yeah you use the white guy's you know graduation photo yeah there's that so interesting yeah it's like or that this is a horrible meme where it's like a white guy just killed his entire family and they use like the most recent like family vacation photo of them like all riding Dolphins yep but then if it's a person of color they use like a mug shot or like something taken from someone's Facebook and it's like why would you do that also the fact that a lot of these like serial killers are or like smash Shooters are white men yeah that that's because of entitlement you know like you feel like the world has screwed you over and you're owed something to the point where like you feel and you feel like you can take someone's life God I mean I feel like anyone who's a woman or person of color it can be like yeah dude the world is [ __ ] awful but these men just can't accept that they weren't given everything on like a silver platter yeah the first inconvenience or or alert the the world is not how they saw it at first it's just like yeah women reject you therefore I get to kill people oh God oh my God we're gonna Sears keep asking Robin yeah um so there's like True Crime the judicial system and its effects from 2018 to 2021 the number of documentary series on streaming services grew 63 and True Crime was the largest segment of that according to data from parrot analytics a media tracking company this is an opinion piece by Vox by the way okay um just want to throw that out there this isn't like it's just an opinion piece okay yeah so it's not fact um so true crime turns the courtroom into a source of entertainment and transforms people's lives into narratives for others to consume oh my God yeah dude um the [ __ ] Johnny Depp of the herd trial it was disgusting these were people's lives yeah like and they're like I'm in line to watch this it's like get a job yeah again Sears like what are you doing that's this is a real domestic violence you [ __ ] all right um the interest in other people's trauma where they're depicted through documentary footage or by actors has real life ramifications our Obsession does have an effect on the court system in both positive and negative ways it can encourage public advocacy that illuminates the cases of marginalized defendants or victims and I know that's like we see that all the time with Twitter like if someone's missing like my sister is missing can you retweet this like that's that makes it yeah and it works yeah sometimes it does and um yet the proliferation of sensationalized stories also means that juries have preconceived notions about how crimes happen how investigations unravel and how Justice is delivered I can imagine that would because you're not supposed to be biased or have like an opinion when you walk in the courtroom dude finding 10 people who are not social media literate that's not even your peers at a certain point yeah it's all like old people have you heard of this case I don't want old people judging whether or not I die I know yeah I'm [ __ ] faced with the death penalty that's insane that is crazy but it's it's I mean It's a larger philosophical question of like can anyone truly be objective no because we're all influenced by our social environment yeah and how we grew up and how we see the world and so you can try and I think that can be best accomplished through diversity on a panel but at the same time you know we know how the American justice system works and yeah it's not always the case over the past decade the number of non-fiction crime shows has dramatically increased because they're listening to the people yeah Netflix has leaned into this genre With viral titles such as Tiger King making a murderer and inventing Anna that was about crime Tiger King yeah I thought he just like tigers no what was the crime I'd ever watched it oh I I he some I mean maybe there was like his his tiger sanctuary was like unsafe there was a murder or something I don't know I know that there was a lesbian on that show who got like her hand bitten off and she was just like you know it happens every day and I'm like I want to meet you I want to find out what your issue is an eccentric Larger than Life unscrupulous character Joe Exotics management of the animals leads him into confrontation with Animal Welfare Advocates and another zoo owner owner Carol Baskin I remember all this and I just never cared to watch it yeah I was like y'all are telling me about this against my will bless I did watch making a murderer though that's what's that about I just keep licking this microphone why do I do it keep your tongue in your mouth it's literally like oh oh my God I thought about it and I just did it okay you keep going what wait what was it about making a murderer was about that guy who uh was allegedly Innocent but then man it's been so long why would you ask me that making and then inventing Anna Anna is inventing Anna about oh my God this is right making a murderer came out 2015. um Steve Avery is freed from a wrongful conviction so he served time that's something he didn't do and then ends up actually committing a crime later it was all about that journey of like what that does to the human brain yeah crazy anyway things like this and the serial podcast which launched in 2014 um all Inspire to Boom basically these were kind of the first to do it and then it's just gotten crazy from there the interest in news coverage of criminal trials is strong as well especially when they're public figures one of the most notable modern True Crime cases was OJ's trial in 1995 which was watched by over 150 million people that is crazy [ __ ] me more recently audiences followed the 2021 trial of Kyle Rittenhouse the 17 year old who shot three people during an anti-racism and police brutality protest in Wisconsin I remember that all that very recent dude he's on [ __ ] Tick Tock him and his girlfriend are active on there and I'm like how are you even allowed to be alive right now that is wild yeah you're just allowed to just assimilate back into the world and then the depth versus Amber Heard trial yes the news stories are part of the larger trend of crime-related discourse with the audience of both news and produced shows talking about the nuances of the court cases discussing a judge's Behavior dissecting testimony and evidence or wondering is he guilty this discourse adds to True Crimes negative effects oh my God that is so true and you know what um what movie was this or was it a documentary where you know when you serve jury duty yeah and it's a criminal case like any of these you're not allowed contact with the outside world because social media like we said earlier can sway your opinion yeah more evidence is coming out that there some of these um Court am I trying to say jurors yeah would see evidence on Twitter before they would in the actual courtroom oh [ __ ] it's just like what the [ __ ] are we doing I know and dude oh I mean this is not jury but it's a sentence uh big brother like the Celebrity Big Brother there's like so many what I don't know okay but yeah like it's like um like they did the 2016 election it's you have no access to your phones and so like so they all the people on Big Brother like they were like sitting down and they're like so we have to tell you like who is elected the next president and everyone's just like are you [ __ ] serious it's actually Donald Trump and I didn't even think about that yeah oh my God people on Survivor yeah oh [ __ ] what was that oh my gosh like that lady like crossing the ocean and they found no no no this lady was like crossing the ocean in a boat and her friends were like she's gonna be so pissed when she found out about Roe v Wade because like you can't [ __ ] contact these people oh my God I know that stresses me out yeah if my phone ever like broke yeah or if something happened where like my I I don't know I just could never have access to the internet again yeah you just wouldn't know yeah how do people stay tuned I haven't done the newspaper oh yeah there is a case against True Crime the storytelling element of this genre is a vital part of its appeal it's why people turn on podcasts about serial killers during their morning commute to catch up on Netflix documentaries to wind down at night or tune into the live courtroom feeds to keep up with the cases taking over social media timelines that is so crazy that you unwind with like Richard Ramirez's killings just like I don't have words for it that's like how um look if you smoke a cigarette and you don't normally smoke cigarettes it's going to give you like some form of adrenaline right like you're gonna feel like but if you smoke cigarettes long enough you actually get like more depressed and like lethargic so like these people are so um so addicted to the adrenaline that it actually calms them down now I guess that's a very apt comparison I think it's also um the over sensationalization of it this no longer affects us the way that it should yeah when you hear about oh so-and-so shot and killed 17 people in a movie theater we're just like again yeah it doesn't have that heart-wrenching effect that it should because it's so and I don't I feel like you said this earlier of like it's not that this is happening more it's just that we know about it more this has been happening for decades and decades in this country and I'm sure there's been an uptick yeah and you know whatever but it's also like we just hear about everything all the time all at once yeah so it decent desensitizes us um so Publications such as time and the guardian I've written about the exploitative nature of True Crime media and how it affects families of victims who are often re-traumatized after being reminded of the murder I what I can't what I would [ __ ] me up so much is like if my friend who's a woman got killed and then someone's talking about it and I go in the [ __ ] comment section and there's like comments like what is she wearing or like that that would [ __ ] like make me like ill you know what I mean yeah because I want to go through and be like what the [ __ ] is wrong with you why does it matter and then there's now there's like multiple videos on it where like you know these [ __ ] teenagers who are like trying to be edgy say something controversial this is a real person yeah you know or even like if it was your sister or your best friend and someone was like part one of the da da murder case yeah this is tea guys strap in yeah foreign dude these are real people and then you reach out to them and they're like I'm just trying to raise awareness I'm aware that she's dead you know and then at the end it's like I and this is what do you guys think tell me in the comments yeah ah we're like yeah raising awareness for what yeah god um there's also like the CSI effect um Publications such as yeah um both non-fiction and fiction crime shows can influence people's understanding of how legal proceedings work um this becomes an issue when those audiences become members of the jury oh interesting social media has added another layer of difficulty for those who work in criminal justice lawyers don't know how much jurors perception of a case has been affected by what they've heard outside the courtroom and then that means lawyers must now prepare for trial based on what has been reported as well as the speculation has appeared on social media so much to keep up with yeah and all of that can affect you subconsciously too like if you heard someone talking about it on Twitter that and they have a theory that's plausible yeah you're going to bring that in with you to the courtroom yeah it's wild so on the flip side of the coin in defense of True Crime Emily dinker Feldman dankers such as I love that name solid last name I love when a last name has a hyphen in it because it's like you're not done you know take up space yes you should use a colon start a list you know bullet points um Emily Denker Feldman the former director of the Innocence clinic at the MU School of Law this is a quote one of the things that I talk to my students about is trying to craft a good narrative and a good story in their cases exposing them to good narratives good storytelling in terms of various true crime docu-series or shows or films can help with that when we talk about how to be good advocates in our cases we have the state story about what happened it's often not the story that we believe is true so how do we tell a different story that tells the narrative that we believe is true that often means telling a story from the client's perspectives classic just like how a court case Works one-on-one the Equal justice initiative reports that racial discrimination often prevents black people and other people of color from serving on juries egi's race in the jury report reveals a study in which felony trial judges throughout North Carolina were 30 percent more likely to remove prospective jurors of color for cause than their white counterparts at almost every step of the jury selection process racial discrimination leads to predominantly white juries that means the constitutional right to a jury of peers is not implemented when Court practices prevent all voices from being included True Crime shows are a vehicle to get those voices into the conversation even if it isn't directly in the courtroom the prominence of different true crime stories encourages people to take cases to social media and advocate for those who otherwise wouldn't have Advocates this is what happened for defendant Adnan Syed following the serial podcast True Crime media has become a viable option for commenting on the shortcomings of the legal system period it's crazy that like we I mean we do worry that the jury is going to be biased but it's even the people selecting the jury that are biased oh everything is intentional as well yeah that's God this [ __ ] everything about this um what was I gonna say also um wait wait wait oh yeah so um they you know to talk about crafting a good narrative and a good story in their cases I also like it's a lot of like serial killers get like a nickname for that reason because like instead of I mean you could remember Richard Ramirez name but the Night Stalker like gets your attention yeah and it gets people he's doing one stop it at night yeah but like um it's just it's just a way to like um or BTK you know buying torture like that makes people interested and so now there's more eyes on it and there's like more resources going to investigating it yeah yes which is good and bad the but yes um there's also the verdict for consumers of True Crime shows uh moderation is important yes according to Cleveland Clinic a non-profit multi-special multi-speciality academic Medical Center watching too much crime can result in psychological effects such as increased fear anxiety and wariness yeah which is not again an accurate version of reality yeah there is an acceptable amount of you know being aware yeah your surroundings and at the point that it limits you from being able to live a full life because you're so overcome with anxiety and fear that you're gonna be murdered yeah it's just not realistic you know and and even statistics don't really help yeah because when there is violence against women just for existing so it's like and not just women obviously I'm just speaking because I am a woman yeah but it's like I have a fear that has been instilled in me since I was probably five six years old yeah you know just don't play outside don't do this don't do whatever and that's why I'm so pale yes because I was allowed to play outside at least you don't have wrinkles thank you so much but I um yeah I mean I think like it's the same thing with any sort of addiction where like you can drink in moderation but if you're starting to get the shakes every morning and you have to remedy the anxiety with more alcohol like that's or if you you know you're just you're making it worse and then you also get like the physical symptoms of anxiety like it's not anxiety is not just mental like if you're stressed out for long enough like that could affect like your blood pressure like your heart your health condition yeah and so like I can only imagine what that does to you physically but um True Crime isn't inherently good or bad but audience should recognize the difference between exploit uh exploitation and advocacy um which is Tick Tock that's the thing you're asking the general public to understand Nuance mistake number one we have been trying to do this for years um no matter how well a podcast document your Earth series is produced it won't reflect the reality of a courtroom yeah that is true like I mean we were talking about one episode where lawyers watched like movies where there's uh you know a courtroom scene and they pick them apart and they're like this is technically correct but it's like you would this would never happen in real life yeah but then again I mean what are we talking about these are It's Entertainment yeah so great that it technically follows the rules of a trial but like the actual occurrences of course not because it's dramatized yeah um such media can be a needed challenge uh to a legal system that excludes marginalized people following the release of Netflix's when they see us many viewers reflected on the wrongdoings of the Criminal Justice System a former prosecutor and author was dropped from her publisher amid criticism of her role in convicting the exonerated five in an NPR story TV critic Eric deegans talks about how effective the show was in highlighting the over policing of people of color and True Crime can be an agent of change as long as audiences aren't accessories to its harmful effects which is uh variable that is not predictable yeah because I mean with anything like when you're trying to amass an audience that follows something and like you know awareness and action and change there's always going to be those people that just misunderstand yeah and like they think they're helping and they're just really undermining the movement oh dude it's always so crazy to see like someone who like someone who's a fan of you or like they get it and then you see them speak on something else and you're like oh [ __ ] yeah you know what I mean yeah like um there was someone that followed me that called out someone for being transphobic but then they called them a pig and like that they were making fun of their weight and I was like ah you almost like you no no just missed it yeah you just oh it's another group of people that you're like you know I was like you're transport me wrong the fat phobia wrong but so we gotta like dial it back yeah and that's the problem that with these sort of audiences is that like they don't realize that there's like multiple issues it's just so much anger and they don't know where to direct it yes properly yeah so why are we obsessed with True Crime Brittany why are we Obsessed the True Crime this is an opinion piece by lawyer monthly I have lawyer weekly yes you're more in the know than I am True Crime dramas give us an insight into our culture and Norms as well as our anxieties and values by watching True Crime dramas we unlock our natural desire to solve puzzles and Mysteries we didn't even talk about that I love puzzles I do too that's why I do Legos so much period yeah it is that like just you want to know and that's why also there is a big following of unsolved crimes like buzzfeed's unsolved yeah like that was a huge thing a few years ago and then people get upset when it's done solved it's like yeah well wait I mean this does make sense like I mean think about like if you're ever like cheated on and you know you didn't get the full story and like you know a couple months later you find out one piece that you're like holy [ __ ] like just a series of events now makes sense right you know so it's like the major version of that definitely um and people get to speculate as to why criminals may act the way they do which is Silence of the lamps classic these programs also allow us to examine the darker sides of humanity from a safe distance and they bring in another crucial element our natural desire for justice period That's a these are all good lawyer monthly y'all should do this for a job you guys should be professionals people get emotionally invested and want to see those who have done wrong get caught and punished seeing this play out on screen can be hugely satisfying for viewers fear of crime and stereotyping there's another one why we're obsessed with True Crime a lack of knowledge of crime statistics combined with an over consumption of certain types of media can create the perception that one is more likely to become a victim of crime then may be statistically true in certain situations fear of crime will influence people's behavior and it has been shown that this fear can be disproportionate to a person's actual risk which is what we were talking about earlier although it is important to note that the risk of any one individual will vary greatly depending on multiple different factors there can also be danger when it comes to stereotyping when crimes perpetrated by or seen to be associated with a particular group in society are dramatized or over reported it can give the impression that people form people from that group are disproportionately involved in crime and they can therefore be wrongly stereotyped as criminals yeah like the [ __ ] term black on black crime it's not real it's the people who are committing these crimes live in an area where it's a large number of black people so like it would make sense that if it's against their neighbor and their neighbor is black that would happen you know where it's like black on black crime doesn't exist it's just people from a similar like neighborhood you know gay on gay crime yeah I seek out homosexuals uh know I've never beaten up a gay person um really but that can change my birthday's in a couple weeks if anyone's looking again Beat Around um what was yeah so it's the certain situations the fear of crime will influence you know so I have a fear I know that this is not rational that I will like get like fall off a roller coaster I've like seen people have gotten their heads like hit a bar like took their head off and I know that roller coasters for the most part are fairly safe yeah the same with airplanes but people are praying to a god they don't believe in right if there's turbulence you know yep like you're like so I understand that it's so unlikely for me to die on a roller coaster but I'm still like I don't know about the Matterhorn the chances are yeah improbable but never zero yeah I get it this uh obsession with True Crime as well as inspiring a new generation of law enforcement professionals which is good and bad because there are so many bad apples and it's a bad institution in general but it's I understand you know this push to if you want to pursue law whether that's as a lawyer you know or as a an advocate in some sense of just Advantage disproportionately you know targeted people um and then if you want to go the police officer route or firefighter route or whatever I get that you want to make a change but you're entering into such a flawed um industry and that's a larger discussion that you know it's but it's interesting while there is the possibility of fictionalized narratives setting unrealistic expectations and communicating misconceptions about roles in the criminal justice system and the police there are also plenty of positive reasons why crime dramas could Inspire the audience to take a wider interest in this field and I think that that should be celebrated more and they should be paid more yeah especially teachers yes because a lot of this goes back to I was just talking about I've got a whole family full of teachers and so much of the onus of whether you grow up to be a good or bad kid is dependent upon your your teachers yes if your parents fail you then the onus is now on your teacher yeah and there are that's what people love of a victory story you know of like my football my teacher yeah inspired me to whatever and it's like they're life-changing people when your parents fail you so it's crazy trying to think about any teachers I really enjoyed when my parents were failing me um what was your favorite subject in school I liked English a lot but that's because I'm gay um and I didn't know it yeah yeah but I was the creative writing teacher's assistant for a while I'd like proofread some papers and the only thing that um she was I had to proofread them and then also if some of them were alarming I had to report them to the guidance sure sure yeah so like one would be like you know I'm blood oozing from every orifice and I'd be like hey Tim got to go to the guidance counselor if you don't mind you're just gonna sneak you out of the room real quick we'll turn the lights off and go out the back the rise of cozy Crow wait what's your favorite what was your favorite like subject in school uh Spanish oh yeah in high school too yeah dude that's so cool well language teachers are always the [ __ ] best like because they're they're cultured the right good ones okay um I was fortunate enough to have really good Spanish teachers who don't just teach you you know here's how to conjugate co-mayor yeah but it's and here's music and here's theater and here's literature from all these cultures and here's how it varies country to Country and here's how this spread and here's the history when you learn all about that and you get to celebrate it my Spanish teacher in high school we used to have days where um everyone had to make like a traditional Latin American dish yeah and you brought it in there was like flan and there was um and like everyone got to immerse themselves in the culture and celebrate it together it was [ __ ] fun that is cool it's like that if that was how all of my classes were I would have had a great time I would love math yes but now I can't even add without my iPhone calculator I don't mean that is crazy like I um all my history teachers were like guys that I like I enjoy football coach yeah like the history teacher never chose to be a history teacher it was always someone like you know the PE teacher he's got some like a free period yeah he just loved World War II yeah I think I have a very I understand okay I have a very soft spot for like teachers who lose their [ __ ] yeah like you they're just just about to like always combust and I know that like they probably shouldn't be teaching but like I just get it you know I definitely get it too yeah some of my my teachers were who were so unhinged yeah and would just open the class being like well he left me yes it's like I can't while you would open the class with that everyone needs to know like you were talking about language teachers I took French and like my French teacher she just when she like edited something or she like helped she's just like no that's bad like that doesn't make any and I'm like thank you for not like it's just so [ __ ] funny that you're not explaining anything yeah yeah a little bit there's also the rise of cozy crime it's where you rub a Walmart in onesie no that's not what it is um can you slash someone into Lululemon leggings uh there's common Circle Theory W oh this is what Stanley wrote Common Circle Theory W um a new generation discovers cozy crime cozy mystery is also referred to as cozies are a sub-genre of crime fiction which sex and violence occur off stage the detected is the detective is an amateur sleuth and the crime and detection take place in a small socially intimate Community wait so what does it mean offstage um cozies like like before the narrative starts oh these are these are this is fiction okay okay cozy is thus dude sexual assault cozy um cozy is the standing contrast to hard-boiled fiction in which more violence and explicitly sexual explicit sexuality are Central to the plot the term cozy was first coined in the late 20th century when various writers produce Works in an attempt to recreate the Golden Age of detective fiction um cozy crime has boomed in the last year but there is still space for the psychological Thriller according to agents and editors who describe a general appetite for crime and escapism that has flourished under lockdown but escapism escaping into a worse world where you uh like you're home like it sucks God I wish I was sexually assaulted at some point I wish my neighbor got murdered yeah like that's interesting um I think it's escapism more in the the realm of it has nothing to do with you oh okay it's completely new characters completely new players completely new storyline has nothing to do with your real life mm-hmm okay um so Teresa Keating a senior editor at Viper describes seeing and Rising cozy submissions dating back to you before the pandemic stressing that it has been thriving a thriving sub-genre in the digital Market in particular for a while um like others who spoke to the Bookseller she thinks the recent uptick is down to a recent taste for escapism fueled by the current events yeah this so you're you're like God I I'm escaping it where someone else's life is horrific and that's comforting yeah I would but I mean I don't I and let I don't really like find any comfort in like yeah someone you know Grandma got killed at least I'm not them you know like I think it seems kind of I mean maybe I'm not getting in as much as well I mean that's like anything why do we watch a movie a thrilling movie why do we read a thrilling book why do we you know it's like it's entertainment as well as as much as it is escapism people are flocking to Cozy crime books because of the oversaturation of graphic violence inside the mainstream True Crime as well as a way of escapism from our current times times were tough and using cozy crime as an escape compared to other violent genres of True Crime makes sense as a current Rising Trend um and I would like to see Nancy Drew as a cozy crime oh interesting Harry Potter imagine like dude how many like children and teachers have been killed at that school oh dude oh you got a good point yeah so Much Death at Hogwarts like I imagine like you Cedric dig rape died in front of the entire student body the next book should just be about the students going to therapy you know what I mean yeah I want to read that the trials and tribulations of PTSD exactly Voldemort yeah or dude cozy crime this is like a mental crime the the idea behind what's that Rapunzel that she should be deeply Disturbed oh yeah like there's if you're isolated from the world there are people who've been trapped in closets for like years and they are out of their mind Harry Potter yeah yes gay people um no but so like it's like I what I don't understand why no one's talking about as much is Rapunzel should be so [ __ ] up it's her shielded from the world only ever talk to her mom she's never seen a man in your life talks to an iguana and then the man shapes her worldview yeah so toxic she's basically like literally a child I know she may be like 17 but like mentally she should be a [ __ ] four-year-old should have no speech capacity yeah because who was talking to her I know it's just her mom and like there's no way that she's reading all those books like you have to have like a very high intelligence like level yeah I mean I also know that most of the Disney works are like based off like horrific German fairy tales yeah I would love to do an episode on that dude okay but then oh so we think about like the spectacle of crime like as it is right now like it's kind of offensive people used to get like hung for entertainment you know yeah just imagine being so bored in your Hut that like they're like they're gonna hang a bunch of murderers and you're just like oh that's fine they tortured people for entertainment yeah shove stuff off their butt and people were like this is funny I was like imagine seeing that today even if it was like someone who killed my sister I wouldn't want to watch a spike go up their ass yeah yeah what a what a um barbaric time I know this is also happening concurrently at the time of like colonialism and like imperialism where people are like we're the civilized society let's go settle other places it's like that's the most barbaric [ __ ] Primal [ __ ] I've ever heard I can't even imagine if I'm astounded by what my mother spews out of her mouth and she was born in the 50s can you imagine someone born in the 1700s they are probably it's not even the fact that they're speaking Old English it's the fact that oh my God you have like so many mental illnesses happening at once yeah you know yeah I don't understand how anyone had a loving childhood oh well they didn't but I also couldn't read and they smelled like horseshit so and they pissed in the street God I miss it God take me back am I right but um so this has been our episode of about True Crime yeah I hope that was kind of I mean it's not all-encompassing but I feel like it we really umbrella covered the internet's obsession with True Crime and kind of when it started so hope you guys enjoyed by love y'all so much and and um if y'all want to check us out on YouTube we have a video version of this if you're listening only on audio so like And subscribe and listen to us on on Spotify Apple podcast any place you get your podcasts you uh what's it called what Google podcast does anyone use Google podcasts I think there's like seven of them good for y'all y'all keeping Google alive all right we love you guys follow us on everything I guess and uh please don't make tick tocks about current True Crime events and if I get killed please don't sensationalize it if you get killed do I have permission to make a tick tock about it um only if I died on a roller coaster okay all right thank you guys so much for watching and listening we're just listening all right goodbye [Music]

Channel: Violating Community Guidelines

Views: 624,942

Keywords: brittany broski, sarah schauer, brittany and sarah, sarah and brittany, brittany and sarah podcast, violating community guidelines, violating community guidelines podcast, true crime, true crime podcast, comedy, internet, comedy podcast, internet podcast

Id: DWG_tKCCZwg

Length: 88min 47sec (5327 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 26 2022