[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] well it's finally here and we could be more excited about it welcome to the elephant room a day filled with grace and truth conversations and I want to welcome our special guests Wayne Cordeiro Bishop Jake's Crawford Lou Ritz Steven Furtick and here for the first conversation mark driscoll and Jack Graham all right let's get after this subject of missions I think the title of the session is with a little help from my friends Jesus Christ said take the whole gospel to the whole world with your whole heart and sometimes that's going great sometimes that's I'm not going so great but we want to have a frank conversation about how we can steward this awesome message of the gospel more effectively to the ends of the earth you're up first Jack let's hear what's on your heart about denominations and what they can do to assist in the work of World Missions well I want to start by saying there's no question the question is even raised in in the promo there that denominations are declining and diminishing and in their impact there's no question about that and frankly a lot of denominations should go away especially those whose theology and commitment to World Missions is basically non-existent there are good denominations and bad denominations now I'm a part of the Southern Baptist Convention which in effect is not technically a denomination I know if it looks like a duck quacks like a duck there's a duck right but technically in the sense that we're not president I was the president of the duck yeah it's hard to ride a duck by the way Dutch don't travel very well together but but we are a convention of churches so we're a loose knit Association of churches I'm not unlike you know what you would call a network and so what we have chosen to do is to cooperate together I often say you know I am a Christ follower first I'm a I'm a Baptist second and I'm a Southern Baptist third I'm a Baptist and my doctrinal identity Who I am and then as a matter of connecting and cooperating with others with the principle that we can be more together than we can independently I never have been involved in an end movement I've always been involved in a cooperative movement and I think with the tasks that we have at hand of world evangelism then getting together for the sake of the gospel with like-minded churches is still viable it's still important that we do that and I'm not here to advocate denominations that control churches the thing that I love about Southern Baptists is that it is a local church movement it's not a top-down hierarchical kind of movement it is it is a church movement and that's critical or I certainly wouldn't be a part of it and most others wouldn't we have we have an amazing amount of people that have have given and resource this denomination for the purpose of ministerial training and for the purpose of world evangelism and church planning now it gets big and it can get cumbersome and we all know the problems that we have with any organization that's massive but we have a hundred and fifty years of history that indicates that we've been pretty good at what we've been doing now we need to get a lot better in our denomination but the fact is that millions and millions of dollars are given by churches voluntarily cooperatively in order that we can fulfill the Great Commission I think within baptist world millions of dollars are given annually absolutely million hundreds of millions of dollars are given annually for the sake so to answer the questions our denominations diminishing absolutely you know labels people come to our cities even Dallas which is I'm sure the buckle of the Bible Belt in many ways still although that's changing dramatically people don't show up and say is this the Baptist Church or is this the Methodist Church is this the Presbyterian Church the most people that come to Preston Wood are looking for a Jesus Church amen and and a church this preaching truth and grace as we're talking about so I believe that while labels and denominational identification is increasing there's still a high participation among Baptist nationally and internationally through the Southern Baptist Convention so I'm in I've been in for a long time and will stay in as long as we as the denomination stay committed to not only a doctrinal resurgence which we had in the 1980s where we we were the only denomination that ever was drifting left moving left theologically that reverse course right that was that was an incredible thing that happened when the Southern Baptist churches and conventions turned around that means our seminaries went from drifting left to a conservative biblical perspective and then now we're in the process of moving towards a a missional resurgence where we're pairing things down where we're trying to for example at the North American Mission Board which became a lot about a lot of different things you know chaplaincy and we still do those things but it's now under the current leadership church planting church planting church planting church planting and so it's a healthy denomination and and so we're gonna we're going to continue to be about the business of fulfilling the Great Commission and assisting churches as a pair of a denomination is a parachurch organization basically right if it's done the right way it comes alongside to serve the church and that's its only purpose okay all right I'm not a Baptist I'm about this we should hug no the denominations provide things that the network's don't I come tribal representing you know acts 29 and the church planters that I work with and we work across a few dozen denominations and so we're across denominational Network I think the lion's share of those who are denominationally affiliated with x-29 or Southern Baptists guys and some of our best guys are out of the convention and so what we are seeing is younger leaders in particular having dual affiliation that want to be in a denomination because there are quite frankly there are benefits and assets that a denomination a good healthy as Jack articulated you know Jesus loving Bible teaching denomination holds that a network can't provide but then the network can provide some things that sometimes the denomination can't and so some of the benefits of a denomination are there's funding for church planning which is very hard to raise there are some great schools I mean mutual friends of ours like Danny akin or al Mohler have got the support of the SBC to run fantastic schools to help guys learn the Bible and get ready for ministry a network would never have those kinds of resources and opportunities the connections to global missions like the co-operative program open up massive opportunities your thing now is what why denominations are better well no denominations provides some things but there's some things they don't provide that I think the network's are coming into to assist and I think going forward you're gonna see more people with a dual affiliation saying I'm in a denomination because there are some certain benefits and opportunities but there's also some limitations and restrictions and in a network I get to work cross denomination I get to learn from people outside of our team and tribe I get to find guys who are innovating new ministry methods taking some experiments and I get to learn from them and it also gives you a place to to be in community and to have friendships without sometimes the politics or the criticism that comes from within your tribe and and so that's that's kind of how we've organized it in acts 29 and the vast majority of our guys have a dual affiliation some are independent like me with no denominational connection and they really like the benefit of both it's like these are my brothers and I learn with and innovate and go on mission with and this is my denomination that has a whole bunch of resources to help me in my church be more effective and and what's what's transitioning now is what's your primary affiliation you know a young guys plant in the church for example would he put Baptist on the sign or would he put actually nine on the website or Sovereign Grace or whatever his tribe is and and that's what's happening now and some guys would still say first denomination second network is allegiance others would say first network second denomination but ultimately at the end of the day as long as churches are getting planted and people are meeting Jesus that's all we all care about and I think and I think then the question becomes regarding the international missions component Jack said it right lots of money is being given but is a lot of good work getting done right sometimes you know a lot of money can be given toward international missions but man the results are suspect our church is getting planted are people getting saved you know is the culture being penetrated or are we having a hard time really contextualizing really making a dent or we just setting up a very small sort of modernistic subculture where the people come to sort of convert to an American value system or denominational way of life you know I don't know how much it would be interesting to find a study that says how much money has been spent on World Missions I have a study like that do you yes and what are the results is it encouraging like we spend a lot of money but we got a lot of results well it was interesting I had a white paper done by a Wheaton PhD grad and they came back to me and said as an example check this out jack as an example enough money has been raised in a North American Church since 1980 to pay for the gospel to be translated and the Bible to be translated into every language almost four times so what should we do should we go raise the money a fifth time or should somebody step and say hang on hang on here a minute before I just give it one more time we know where that where's the hole with this money in it yes and I think when I heard this is so let's go kind of go back in this direction and begin to go back and forth I hundreds of millions of dollars I mean they plant five churches with a roll of duct tape and a broken-down car so so hundreds of millions of dollars I mean you're given these guys buildings too I would say there's a great deal of the question is the issue of countable accountability and stewardship yeah and the the process is such that look what let me just tell a story when I was president of the Southern Baptist Convention the best moment of my the the god moment for me of my two years tenure which was you know a good experience but but the best moment was together with the 12 regional leaders of the International Mission Board they represent Southern Baptists all over the world missionaries they're 5000 Southern Baptist missionaries serving five thousand in the United States with North American mission more but those international guys out there in the world serving Christ they're they're under the leadership of these regional leaders and I'm telling you it was like a Pentecost it was it was the the integrity the dot the the effectiveness of what these guys were doing and planning and it's only getting better I mean I brought you know numbers I'm not gonna bore everybody with numbers but but let's just take Haiti for example I know you guys have been involved in Haiti Haiti down in Haiti when the disaster hit 1800 volunteers traveled down there treated thousands of patients this is all out of the churches now this isn't an organization sending trained missionaries but this is mobilizing the churches which is what you that's this the other side of a denomination it's not again a top-down organization is mobilizing churches and all these resources together so treated thousands of patients shared the gospel with 25,000 people 272 new churches were born a lot of work in ministry with the churches that were on the ground literally in Haiti so that's one example I heard a story yesterday about a couple of missionaries there in Egypt they found out they're expecting spina bifida the baby is in tough condition so what did the International Mission Board talking about the resources and the support support is important the care and the concern of whether it's a church planner just getting started or a missionary in in this case in Egypt not a great place to serve so sharing gospel in the Egypt so what did I MB do they brought this couple back got them the best medical care they're going to pay for everything with this with this child they're going to take care until the the family is ready to go back and they are going back to Egypt so that's just a couple of examples that that I'm not seeing you sadder than a net the size but if you're talking about accountability no I think we're talking about the issue of accountability is this thing worth while you're pouring all your money into this you're giving money you're giving all these millions of dollars are they doing anything and you know that's just a couple of small examples of a microcosm of what happens on a daily basis can we do better absolutely my goodness I mean and we've all been to mission fields and we want to ask the question okay just what are you doing here you've been here five years and where's the fruit okay and I don't know how you feel but when I hear somebody so we planted 272 churches in Haiti I got to say that my kind of BS meter rings a little bit there and 207 so I get I get he's not that big of a place like are they are they 10 feet apart are they 20 feet apart we're house churches obvious also witches I want to know what we mean because I respect your integrity massive three guys in a phone booth cashing a check we had a guy come to our conference at our church and he said to me he said we have strive so some crazy number we started 300,000 churches in the last year I said no you haven't 300,000 yeah he said we started 300,000 churches around the world I said no you haven't you said well yeah yeah we have I said I believe that you believe you have but you have not yeah I mean you know how long it takes to plant one church do you know I know do you know it's a lot of work and so I just so what we really mean when we say you plant a church of the way they're planting a church in Haiti is a little different right that's why I want to learn from you so what you're saying is you really mean that with aspergers but people have got together and establish a ministry in a community whether it's a small ministry or not I mean we're judging how big it is are you are you judging how big a church is they have to be you're talking about a true foothold there's a pastor because I want to I know that you're gonna say it the way it is but you believe there's 272 Southern Baptist works with a pastor and a group of people gathered around him doing ministry in a distinct as reported by the International statistically in five years how many of those will still be in operation we'll find out but I'm statistical the Stowers one in four I don't think we're gonna beat that yeah but I don't know they have a chance at that you know I would say that's a good question and certainly what you want to know and in terms of accountability but that doesn't mean you stop throwing out the scene it's starting I mean so I I don't know I think that you're asking is it effective I would say that Southern Baptist Church plants around the world are effective there's a lot of them more than any other kind well I would say I wrote that number down to some where there are when the IMB 163,000 churches overseas now of all different sizes that we work with that are indigenous to those kinds their own pastor with their own pastors so again I mean I feel like you know look denominations don't have a lot of sizzle right now there's no question about that now you know for me you know we've set it up here it's really fun even a lot of my friends are gonna say grams up there defending denominations yeah because I've never been I mean I've always been intruding on nations of my relationship and and and yet I'm I am committed to the fact that what we have is worth saving it was worth saving theologically and man it just imagined for example lists the Beatle themes right right now all our sessions is right so just imagine this is meant a little help all right but I want you to imagine with John Lennon here for just a moment imagine if there was no Southern Baptist Convention it just lets say seriously seriously seriously if there was zero and it went away completely awful all right now wait a minute seriously it went away completely now we know God is gonna raise up other end more to take their place I understand that but what it has taken a hundred and fifty years to to strengthen and build and create and resource the the influence of the salt and light in the culture and the communities all around Southern Baptists you talk about its influence world why if it all went away if it created this huge vacuum I don't think that would be a good thing I'll just go and record I praise God for the Southern Baptist Convention amen and I want to say something more personal then we'll push on networks for a minute I have had the privilege of preaching in Jack's church and one of his staff members felt led to come and plant a harvest church and he wasn't like well that's no Southern Baptist Church we're gonna we're nothing to do with that he came and planted a harvester I didn't say that we didn't say to me okay and really I mean he got so behind this they gave to this pastor bill Borenstein who went out to Phoenix he's got a great church going there it's a harvest nice other Baptist Church but he's living yes other Baptist Church yet we're talkin a scar I don't care what patches are down the sleeve just get around the track you know Southern Baptist acts 29 Baptist oh I don't care just this looks like Chinatown all those come on get your thumb up man I'm all in on that there's no question that cooperative evangelism across denominational lines of people of like faith I mean I love that and that's one of the things that's happened among Baptist where you don't have that that that movement that fundamentalist side of the movement which you know us for no more right there is a broadening out they use the biblical terminology there's a strengthening of the stakes theologically and there's a broadening of the tent going on among people of like faith amen well I want to I want to try to kind of turn the attention to do some do some conversation just for a second here about networks because the one thing I've had pushback about and obviously the acts 29 networks planting hundreds of churches and with pastors and locations but a bunch of them here in the room today and I'm sure around the country in a denomination Southern Baptist that's not about a person there's different presidents it's not about a person and network seems to be focused on extending the platform of the primary establishing leader in this case you do you think that's a negative or do you have any concerns about that do I have concerns about me many the Seth Godin talks about tribes that tribes have a leader they have a message and a way to communicate and those are the three aspects of a tribe and so networks tend to be tribes there's a leader or leaders that that others say kind of where they're going or what they're doing I want to be a part of that or you know connected in some way and I would say the same thing is true even in the SBC there are there are tribal leaders and tribes within the SBC there cert subsets subsets yeah so I'm go so far as to say there are even kind of networks in like a denomination such as the Baptist - where are you - these guys are the reformed guys or these guys are the more charismatic or these are the folks that are really into global missions these are more the house church people and there are even some tribes within the broad umbrella of a denomination and so what's true in a network is is true multiple times over in many denominations all right I said said and clear I I I think that it's going to become clear through the day that the bulk of the wisdom is over here what we're calling the bull pen so we're gonna kind of turn our direction to these brothers let them enter into the conversation and some prefer the peanut gallery the peanut gallery but I'm ready for some peanuts and and who would like to speak into this issue first who has something on their heart they look offered I think we'll go to you and if you could just share some of your observation you've been both inside and outside denominational groupings yeah I like to say Jack you know how do you how do you keep fluidity and movement it would seem to me that historically denominations of necessity moved toward institutionalization which kills the flexibility sure how do you how do you maintain that sense of movement I'm maintaining is focused on local churches because local churches can stay fluid if it becomes as as I said earlier top-down institutionalized then that's the death of a denomination mm-hmm and frankly seeing again well I think it should happen that did you know what what concerns a lot of us is people who get trapped in Liberal denominations or trapped in churches you know and won't leave their church because you know you know grandma's buried outside the church and of course she'd leave too if she could you know she could get away you know they're they feel trapped in in those denominations so the the whole thing with SBC or other kinds of denominations of course you know SBC as Southern Baptists are somewhat plateaued interesting enough and we're going to discuss the the whole racial issue later but except within ethnicities Southern Baptists are growing plateaued otherwise Pentecostal denominations are growing are the only ones that are actually growing but the that you keep it fluid by keeping it a local church movement and I'd say Cromer I always tell her is it there's a movement and then there's an organization to support the movement and then it becomes an institution where the primary focus of the institution is to preserve the institution not to forward the mission and then step number four it becomes a museum yeah at certain churches monument museum and and and so you got to keep going back to mission and movement and and I think what the SBC did in the in the 80s with the missional resurgence was a hundred old trying to go doctrinal resurgence focused too on evangelism was going back and saying we're drifting from institution to museum and we've got to get back to movement and mission but that's that's even true in something like acts 29 I mean it it's true for all of us even in our local churches we're always on that drift toward talking about what we used to do rather than doing something but look there's no question that and it's a problem for us SBC that you go to one of our meetings and it looks like a snowstorm hit everybody's gray-headed like me everybody's getting owned and there's there it is a fact that young pastors and young leaders are are trying to make this decision and what I do think you're right in the center I know you're right in that younger pastors and leaders today probably are going to have dual affiliations do you gets a good or a bad thing I think that's probably a good thing yeah I I you know it's probably denominational executives and tides probably think that's not a good thing but as a pastor I think that's a good thing well less control and more empowerment to get the gospel out Bishop Jake's do you have a contribution to make here to this conversation well you know I'm really strongly from my perspective supportive of the dual affiliation I think any other reflection of the generational perspective on religiosity and I do think for the most part if it's a good thing the the only caveat that I see among independent churches said that it's somewhat disturbing it's that for the church runs into any type of crisis whether it is morally or financially or any type of real crisis there is no authority there to come in and really speak from a from a position of authority to that issue and it's become a little bit of the wild wild west and that relates to everybody's kind of doing what they want to do and if you if you really tighten the reins they just jump off the boat and do something different so that that's just something to think about if we dialogue about the transition well I'm gonna I want to go to Steven and then to Wayne next but I think that was so helpful like I'd like to know based on what the bishop just said do you how do you handle a renegade a wild wild west kind of person within the acts 29 Network yeah next or not is actually got what we call network captains so they'll be regional leaders that are larger church pastors with established elder boards and if there's an issue in that area then we would have that church and their elders be involved with the church that we felt was renegade or the pastor was renegade or in sin and so we would get involved in a discipline process and if we were really unhappy with their response we'd remove them from acts 29 as a disciplinary matter what do you lose if you like I know within harvest we haven't had that a great deal but we only influence by relationship all we can take away from a church is its name or maybe some of the unique features that we've all kind of come together about we can have Wayne talk about what they do within the New Hope Network and so on but what what are you able to remove other you're not in the networking what changes for that guy really if he's not in the eight to nine anymore well for us it's really a brotherhood and we view the network not as a prison but as a home it's not a place you have to be but it's a place that you want to be and when your brothers say you know I start I was gonna cry right there and that was you're not normally that tender mark no I love what you said it's a family it's a good way to look at it so what what you really lose is you lose relationship and I think even even in church discipline it's not oh gosh the guys up the chain of command or you know saying I violated a rule it's when somebody who knows you and loves you looks in the eye and says I'm worried about your soul and I feel you're astray and I'm concerned and this rebuke is in love I think that the best discipline that happens in the church or happens for those who lead the church is in the context of loving relationship well said and so you know where we may not have the legal authority that a denomination mannix sometimes we have more relational authority because of the the investment now pastor Stephen Christ mic is not work on that mic if you can pastor Stephen you have such a growing fruitful ministry so many people coming to Christ in your ministry but really very independent regular lot of relationships but no real strong affiliation tell me tell us what's going through your mind yeah we're actually Southern Baptists even we are he was trying to forgive me for not knowing that I'll just say I've been there a bunch of times you never told me that till right now you need to get younger you need to get younger friends but what's on my heart to say yep from the perspective of the 31 year old and I'm not playing the youth card to say that I don't have an opinion but just maybe to set it up to my generation let's don't be too Cavalier in our dismissal of infrastructures that people have sacrificed to build and that we've benefited from I hear a lot of my friends making really broad statements like denominations are dead denominations are worthless there's no future in denominations but where is even the honor for prices that were paid in the past even if God is doing a new thing there has to be some level of respect and honor for the pioneers that paved the way and I don't just say that gratuitously when we were deciding whether or not to affiliate with the Southern Baptist Convention I had a lot of people telling me my church wouldn't reach anyone if we had that affiliation and yet I had been trained in some Southern Baptist schools I grew up Methodist but I had been trained in two Southern Baptist schools both undergrad and my master's degree and so I felt just even out of a sense of loyalty not a loyalty that supersedes my loyalty to Christ but if there was a way for me to honor that that I wanted to good for you and I hope that my generation doesn't start to think that we're the first ones who ever thought of coming together and we call it some different things and we take things that were actually very sophisticated and sacrificial and speak about them like they're obsolete now Wayne I don't want to move - we're gonna go to the text questions in a minute but if you have something to add you are the leader and have established a network of over a hundred churches called New Hope churches kind of in the Pacific Rim is that fair yeah and you know with the denominations the early on we have to decide if we're going to be Kingdom builders or Empire builders right and a lot of times it devolves from one to the other and in the inception though if we can continually reinvent ourselves back because really the elephant in the room is not denomination their network its leadership you have key leaders in a denomination it's a fantastic denomination if the leaders aren't that good the nominations are bad for that generation the real thing that we have to discuss and we will today is the caliber of leadership within those frameworks that's what makes the framework and if we shoot at the frameworks we might be missing the duck right so the character of the leader the caliber of the leader is more important to you than network or denomination or a combo absolutely good good we're gonna go to some texted questions now and where am I gonna find these texted questions all right here it is right ready to go has the church a focused on global missions at the expense of local missions Jack no because now we all know churches that it's always about something happening out there that we gave our money to our mission offering right to check go back to sleep and we that's our responsibility in terms of evangelism and the Great Commission that's rampant but that's a church issue that's a leadership issue it goes but that's a church interview not necessarily a denominational or network issue local churches you know start at Jerusalem there's no question about that and if you punt on local evangelism as compared to to worldwide witness then then you've made a huge mistake yeah so you know it all starts at home yeah so the local church pastor lets his church go you know overseas but not doing anything for the local community then shame on him and I will say this and probably most most pastors have noticed that notice that you know this is a new era by the way of World Missions in that the only thing we used to do was pray and send money but now we're sending people that's that's a whole new movement and a lot of resistance by the way early on at least in our denomination we don't want these laypeople coming over there and see what we're doing and there were some reasons for that but now that they're going but we find that the people are people who go to Haiti or go to Romania where we've worked for years they come back stronger witnesses stronger church members better for for the work of Christ locally so when you enlarge the heart of an individual and you enlarge the heart of a church to to embrace the world so better home missions flowing out of world mission experience I mean it starts no I mean it starts with right in your own community Seattle is a mission field even Dallas is a mission field 75% of the people in Dallas now Dallas area don't go to church they're out of church they're D Church they're unchurched they're there they don't know Jesus so it's all a mission field it starts there and don't export you know what your what your not doing at home good another question coming this way right now they want to go to the question mark why did you stephen obviously did why did you choose not to affiliate with the denomination yeah I I got saved in college so I didn't have any church heritage or background I attended my first church was an evangelical free church which was a fantastic church and I praise God for putting me in it yeah they tell when we moved back to Seattle we looked for Bible believing Jesus centered church to attend and the one that I was attracted to and interested in was an independent church so we ended up planning an independent church I have had requests to be involved in a denomination and I feel that for me I want to help lead acts 29 across multiple denominations and bring guys from denominations together and so me being an independent position allows me not to be a Presbyterian or a Baptist or some of those conflicts but to bring guys together from all those tribes so I feel it's best for acts 29 and at this point you know I'm not I would get caught potentially in certain denominational conflicts well I can only just I can only just add to that and I say you would for sure Aptus it might be you'd be spend a lot of time in box would be fuller perhaps you know just you know especially in the younger generation of Southern Baptists you're very much loved respected and appreciated and including me I mean III would just met mark recently went up saw his church saw his family he's got the greatest family greatest kids I told him the church is in an unbelievable dark place in terms of the culture and and it is raw evangelism there and here's the thing about about what's happening there is it's evangelism it's not it's it's grace and truth so I'm not here to just but I'm just saying there's a great deal of respect among Southern Baptist leaders and certainly young adults and churches for acts 29 and what you've been doing and that's why we partnered with so many Southern Baptist churches and I again I just feel like for me positionally if we can love and serve and help leaders across multiple denominations and bring them together in friendship to learn from one another that's I just really feel called to that and so being able to work across those tribes is helpful for me well I just I just you know we have a network of churches we've had a great relationship with acts 29 I certainly am NOT anti denominational I grew up Baptist I was ordained in the Baptist Church I appreciate a lot of those distinctives but as we've tried to plant churches we've found that denominations tend to come forward and they're the ones that put the strictures on if you didn't baptize exactly this way if you won't reject the baptism of someone who didn't and all of these distinctives be they Presbyterian or Baptist or whatever they end up that we've tried to extend ourselves into partnerships and that the denominational distinctives have been the thing that say this far no further and one of the questions that came in was why is it do you think that acts 29 is maybe had some of the struggle to connect with denominations or do you even see some of that we have and I'll say from the xray nine side we are well loved by SBC leadership by III leadership like I say there's 20 some denominations I think we're working with now occasionally somebody will make a little bit of noise but our experience has been very warm and very friendly and actually more encouraging and more affectionate and brotherly than I would have expected and so you know not everything that happens on the internet is really the most representative of the heart influential leaders in the denomination oh really now now the acts 29 they clarify for me is reformed or reformed thinking in terms of its theology I mean if you're gonna be in acts 29 do you confess a reformed theology if I'm not if I only get three points I have a minute and a half left sorry I end up at the perfect time if I finally if I only get three point if I only get three of the five in the tulip yeah can I be in acts 29 if you get four we'll let you in if you get three and I really like you will flip a coin 29 is more narrow than the Southern Baptist Convention in terms of its theological parameters but I could with clear conscience sign the Southern Baptist confession of faith that is faith a mess I could absolutely sign on with clear conscience good because we have reformed theologians and we have non reformed theologians unreformed but for us it's socialism Admissions is what drives and leads we're not just trying to be Calvinists we're trying to be evangelists absolutely but wait wait it's like I just say that sentence one more time we're not trying to be Calvinists we're trying to be avenged JC Jesus Christ we absolutely are and and you know the scripture says I'm a companion of all of them that love thee well is a good discussion when none of these things are gonna get settled today but I hope that the listening and the grace is the overriding factor I've been blessed by my friendship with you you're giving your life to leadership in the Southern Baptist Convention in a Southern Baptist Church but I've never found you sectarian I see you having great respect for every where you see the gospel going out and Demark I think that you've been incredibly strategic in allowing acts 29 to pursue your distinctives and at the same time cooperate with everybody who love Jesus Christ and is committed to this book so good discussion the whole gospel to the whole world with our whole hearts amen amen [Applause]
