Edwin Van Der Sar: My Last Interview As Ajax CEO

its events it's it's things are happening you need to fire someone and things are not going well there's there's a crisis uh there's something happening with European level it's something with with the New Media deal it's it's constant so it's it's at a certain points it's it's a not a drag uh it's it's [ __ ] hard hey it's Jake here from the high performance podcast I want to start by saying big thanks to all of our new subscribers this channel is growing like crazy but most people that watch these videos on YouTube don't subscribe and it's so important to us if you can just hit the Subscribe button it grows our channel the bigger the channel grows the greater the names we can attract the greater the names the more important the conversations and the more impacts we can have on your life so please before you watch this video just hit subscribe right now it's a game changer for us it's also fantastic for you but right now enjoy the video thanks for watching well Edwin thank you very much for joining us on high performance you're welcome what is your definition of high performance that's yeah it's a difficult one I think it's uh I think for the biggest part of my life I've been in a high performing of performance environment first try to make it as a player then you take your first step on the pitch with the with the full Stadium then at 40 you retire and then whatever you step into a new environment trying to whatever be a director or become a director and dealing with pressure all the time so yeah it's it's it's I'm used to it it's it's it's part of your body it's part of your old day uh every everyday business um yeah you don't know anything else so you talk about dealing with pressure let's just set the scene for people listening to this we're talking just a hundred meters or so away from the the famous Johan cruy Stadium here in Holland and it has been a hard season there's no literally there's no doubt about that um how much have you learned this season about yourself and about the world in which you operate yeah of course at the moment you have success and things are going well it's easy everybody can do it at the moment it's hard the criticism decisions you've made are not uh are not uh not maybe not the right ones who are not paying off yet uh questions are being asked uh stuff is looking away if you come in or uh TV shows or podcasts are dedicated to the the the problems or the support of Crisis and of course uh friends of yourself your parents are you still okay with it what's happening uh so yeah you're dealing with it and that's that's something what you learned as a player you're you're very much on that pitch you're very visible uh 11 guys playing against another 11 guys you you you save a free kick or a penalty or or you drop one and and and and you'll because of that you lose so it's it's uh it's it's a it's been a learning curve and especially when he had so much success and then in a year that that that's not happening okay what what did what went wrong in the summer uh what what are the consequences what what should you yeah take out of it and that's that's yeah that's something that not writing in books that's not not even uh talked about in podcasts or uh or or management lessons that's something you need to experience and that's uh and that's life also so can we talk then about the the things that went on and the things you learned from it because there are lots of media outlets and probably lots of podcasts as well that just talk about the failure right yeah we have a very different mindset to that what we believe is that failure is the price of ambition right if you're going to try and do great things there are going to be Seasons like this so let's rewind the clock you know you talk about mistakes last summer for example or obviously the departure of of Eric and then the new manager who came in would you go through some of those moments and share with us what you've learned I think with Isis Isis think I think in the very famous club a great tradition DNA iconic Jersey uh fantastic names that have played it over the years uh but also and stepping stone for for a lot of players uh the the league where we are playing in Holland not the biggest league in the world of course at the top five leagues is where eventually everybody wanted to end up Spain Italy Germany France England those are the an AF that also the top Club Mid Cyclops and whatever so in that way it's it we know every year you need to refresh your Cloud your your your uh the team coaches uh are stepping stepping up players on the next step and I think last year we had about 13 players leaving and seven of them were like more or less starting 11. including the coach uh five months before that the technical director so yeah that's even for club like IX that is used to making sure that that is sort of like a conveyor belt of new talent coming through the scouting is functioning that was there's too much uh to uh yeah to get hold of in the summer and to anticipate and and make sure that the success that we had over the last four or five years that it was yeah in a constructive way going going in the same direction that's uh and that's that's impossible so you talk about the DNA of a successful team like Ajax Amsterdam what is that how would you define it and then more importantly how do you maintain it yeah I mean the maintain this is it's it's something where the the managers of the coaches the work in the academy uh the the scouts who finding the players uh are having any to deal with and I think we add over let's say from the 70s with uh with the generation of your own craft beat geyser winning three champions leagues in the 80s with from Boston with that eye guard uh in the 90s the team with with Shader with Dave it's with the boers [Music] I was part of that also um so every every era there's there are players coming through and that's that's something that's that stands us out I think from whatever from a lot of clubs we like to uh like to be that club that there's an a DNA also that the players who are given the chance here also hopefully come back at a certain point and and give something back to the club and not all not only regarding to entropy going to have one club to another one because if we want to perform in on the European stage yeah money is money is a big difference and of course uh not only spending a lot of money that's that's not always the solution I look at look at whatever some clubs in England this year he had already a nice level you spent whatever five six hundred million doesn't mean that you become Champion or even qualify for Champions League so what what you do with it that's also uh very important and quick decisions or or managerial decisions yeah that those are yeah testing times for yourself as a CEO or a director to to make that right to make the right call making sure that that the whole club believes in that yeah that line that that has been set up to uh to get to to get to the success or to uh to to revise the success formula that he had before so let's talk then about some of these sort of specific moments and how you can retain the culture whilst allowing iax to do what it does which is build amazing talents I understand as a player it's great you know you you do well here you know you're going to get an opportunity right but for you now in a senior leadership role it's very hard when you lose your manager so would you talk us through the process of what happened with Eric ten Haag and and how you deal with that do you just sort of accept when man united come calling you have to allow people to go do you try and fight to keep Eric when he when he showed an interest in Manchester United how does it work from your perspective I think it works similar to all uh even with players of course you uh or every player want to have a plan when the company Academy and they want to know a plan when when I come to the to the second team uh when they will shine a new contract when I'm allowed to train the first team when I'm allowed into the first impression room uh what's my next step and even with the players you you get from abroad okay you sound on a five year five year deal uh you talk about ambition of course you will need to win the league here play to play championship football create yourself uh give yourself a Podium or we give you a Podium and but yeah you have to you have to use it you have to ever put all your all your talents and qualities on on that stage and from there around the other there there will be interest and um we have the two three hopefully four years you take that next step and the same with the manager I think with Eric when Eric came uh Mark of marsh knew him already from particular code Eagles even at second team at Bayern Munich he did really well with Utrecht uh so yeah he came here uh as in maybe not as an ice DNA a type of type of manager but see uh in the first year already uh yeah his biggest talents and his work rates and his desire to to every time to put put the bar higher uh establish itself as a great manager and of course with the players that were around and you talk with the you talk with the manager you see what what this yeah his plans are or uh he looks at the Players what what can I get out of the players what what's the ambition of the club uh so that way you make also yeah and a plan for for the manager and of course when you perform and when you do something really well of course you attract interests and that's we know that and we are proud of it that people are taking a next step to a bigger Club bigger league and hopefully um yeah we can we can we can use it also in our advantage to attract other talents that say Hey through IX you can get there and there and there instead of straight away at 18 or Australia the first job as a manager in the Premier League so what was it in particular that Eric demonstrated to you beyond the experience of being coached at other teams that you looked at and thought I think this guy can come in to iax and do a great job to enhance us yeah I think you you have to whatever get a different role as a as a CEO of course you have a technical director also so the most technical decisions or uh uh yeah we will go to a technical director of course so the scouting or but also the selecting of a manager and of course there's there are talks uh what what kind of guy do you want in you wanna you wanna tough one a tactician or are we doing one of the boys so in that way it's uh that's been let's say a combined work of Mark over March uh more uh with the scouting department and of course just seeing if you if you if you see a player this first touch oh yeah the interesting put it in your mind and same with the manager if if if you come into a team they play a certain type of football or a certain type of tactic where your own club or your team is struggling with I think oh could be interesting let's follow up let's keep on following and that that I think that's happened and of course there are conversation about uh staff about performances about raising the bar what kind of players are coming in uh but in general yeah we've like to get the our own players through than a manager who delivers a list with I I like these five players go and get them I think that's not how ice will work but you're somebody that's that's had the unique perspective of being in the dressing room with great coaches whether it was from Van Hall early on in your career to Sir Alex Ferguson at the end of your career so you've got the perspective of being able to see what makes a great coach what works and now you're in the position of being part of the deciding committee and who's going to recruit a coach so what are the characteristics that you've seen from those different roles that you've held that you think do does distinguish whether her coach is going to be successful or not difficult question because you don't know who's going to be successful it's it's it's approach that you have you need so many things to to click to to make sure that that the project that you start the players that you are that you signed the players that come true from the from the academy that they're gonna jail that's that's that the way the the manager wants to the monster team to play that that there's belief and of course and uh football or Sports also game of luck of course inside post that's a post on the bar a penalty given or yes or no red cards uh yes or no these little things can yeah can be the fate of a manager the fate of a player or the fate of a director if if the if their success or is there uh is a failure and of course you if you have limited those the outdoors the answers if you if you really work hard if you can make sure that that's that's a belief in the group uh in the in the way that the the setup is for for away games or for home games um how much talents there's Talent get a chance there's younger players who are performing on the on the on the training better than all the players are they getting a chance or will a manager stick with let's say the experience with with players who did it in the past uh and that's what I what you've seen also at Ferguson for example but working at bigger clubs it could be the end station a lot of not a lot of players at United went to let's say bigger clubs maybe only Ronaldo in 2009 going from United to to Real Madrid but I had the questions I had asked also a question to to geek Source calls you or or Gary I said yeah I never fancy going abroad it's like whatever there must be big clubs also intimilan or Barcelona or Madrid or uh by Munich yeah that's when it's like you know we'd be born here like it's it's it's my family lives here I play for the biggest club in the world uh the money is good so why would I go abroad and learn a different a language or a different playing style because I'm playing for the bigger slope in the world that's that's great of course anymore you have that those five six guys who have played the whole life for a club at your child or boy club and I actually different because of course players even mattice lift came here at eight nine years old and went to the whole Academy at 16 and a half made his debut 17 he captained the club in Europe League final but still for him there are other Ambitions of course when you're young you want to play hey you want to be part of the Irish Academy hopefully every year you want to take a next step to and of course import you know your talent and uh coaches we give you a little more attention that kind of stuff and we make your debut on the first thing but after that yeah uh agents clubs uh other other players that you that you know come on come on you take a next step and that that's complete difference than other big European clubs that have maybe a certain shame pedigree as us but they have the advantages of playing in a super strong league and where the the finances and the commercial income is much higher than say Club attacks can the two of us just pick away then actually uh this conversation about what it does for you personally because you spent your entire footballing career being in control in control of your training in control of your reaction on the pitching to a certain extent now you know you talk about luck and chance and a refereeing decision and not knowing really how can you know if a manager or a signing is ever going to be successful so how did how do you deal with the uncertainty that comes with being the chief exec of one of the most talked about clubs in the world yeah and in general of course it's it's part and uh somebody says yeah the harder you work the more luck you're getting uh of course making making long hours yet life is a player it's easy of course you need to perform on Saturday at two o'clock uh but in general yeah you train in the morning everybody is there to help you to make sure that you have the right nutrition uh that you that you train a certain level that you're gonna massage uh but work as a director or a manager it's it's it's so much more demanding uh it's it's 60 70 hours it's it's all the time being on instead of being able to take a rest or or Focus or or think so you have to really yeah create time also for yourself to to to know what is going on to know uh if the decisions or the decision you want to make that is going to benefit the team or or the pro uh the the process that that you that you stepped into um and how do you I'm quite I'm quite I do my playing style was always relaxed yeah I was I was able to whatever see through the lines able to communicate with my Defenders uh making sure that that one or two remarks I could make sure that that they adjusted their their stance or or the way that they that they defend it or the way they that somebody went up front to to come back and of course as a director you have yeah the impact is sometimes a lot of meetings a lot of this discussion you have a lot of managers who come with they have more qualities on certain areas than yourself um has been a chief detective you are yeah okay you don't know 100 of the Finance on 100 of the of the commercial side even the technical side I'm not watching all the sessions at the new technical director or the technical managers or the uh or or your coach they are busy every day with tactics with with Player Development with uh with performances um and of course yeah as Achievers act you do different things then only football so let's talk um in more detail about this first of all you talk about you need time for yourself to see the big picture you know you are the most senior leader at this Football Club we have lots of business people that listen to this podcast who maybe struggle with that element how how do you find the space the headspace to to be able to make decisions and and have a bit of separation yeah you feel yourself now also that um if you're running too fast you're losing time to reflect to to make the not not the right decisions but decisions quick enough uh some that you take take things with you think over and of course you're you have your trusted people you trust Solutions where you speak to where you you get good advice from but the moment that things are going well it's it's much easier to to breathe to find the time and the moment things are going in in a way that you don't expect or you have to recover certain things um you feel that the time is running away from you that's that that's that the essence of um creating space in your diary creating space in your mind that that's that is going away and that that's not uh probably not helping the the the decisions or the influence you want to make on your on your organization and that's that's a learning points I think for for everybody um and I had a a colleague or a colleague like in the when I started in 2012 I was a marketing director the idea was always for your own Clive to bring ex players into the board and directors he always said like yeah you guys you didn't do University uh like the normal people the clever people do but you you guys did the University of life being exposed in the football stadium being a young player making sure that you that you you got a chance in the first team uh dealing with with um with uh yeah with the losing finals with making mistakes or uh 80 000 people that cheering you on or newspaper headlines that that are breaking you or killing you um so in that Way You Are even from the outside pressure they yeah you can shut it off and that's one of my qualities I think making sure that that's that's that I the thing where I work on where we work on there's a club that you that you don't let yourself be influenced by their people who are shouting making headlines or or talking rubbish because they don't know what is the real deal what's going on into an organization it's quite easy to to whatever to uh to talk about shining uh it's not good this and that and everything but there are so many more things that are yeah uh combined to to make sure that that all the department we're working with is making success for the guys who are on the pitch I mean that's typically Far Side set of cry if from what you read about him and it's a conversation that many people have about going from the dressing room to the boardroom what would you say are the characteristics that are consistent that you learn in that University of life as craft described it that you're still using today the way that um that that when a manager uh comes in or to even doing during the game in the first half whatever quick with quick words or quick shouts you can you can adjust something uh half time you have a little bit more time to uh to reflect and to to make sure that the team is correct um as a CEO it's it's it's it's that take much longer to have an effect on uh on how the organization is running and and manager can make it quickly in doing a game during 90 minutes and then it's finished and then you have another week to uh get the faults out or or change the player or change the tactics um so in that way it's what I learned also from the safe and Alex Ferguson he said yeah I've been always very loyal to the people that's that's been that brought me success at a certain point I have to make sure that succession continuously is not always the case with yeah if you hold on to older players uh that gave you success but you have to make sure that there will continue to be successful so you have also look at the future and making sure that players who you know we need to develop or maybe come to the end of the road yeah even yeah on a respectful way but sometimes not even sometimes it's not easy to be respectful in this world because it's it's a hard world and experience experience that as a player you're experiented as a as a as a executive and yeah and that way it's it's very comparable so Ferguson famously used to I described it in his own terms that he would think in four-year cycles for his team and the stability of his role allowed him to have that maybe longer perspective how far ahead do you think as a chief exec um it's it's [Music] um of course you make you make plans for whatever four or five years long term long-term plans uh short-term coach need to win the the next game or win the league but of course as as directors look a little bit further than than only that but it's it's quite hard I asked as one of the one of the one of my colleagues at the ECA I think is also Lisa director of a Premier League club so what's what's let's say the best advice that you got let's say I you started also somewhere and uh I said yeah I went to one of the one of the former directors he was in charge for 12 years he said what piece of advice would you give me next game on Sunday is that that's that's to be fair you can have a great uh great comparison commercial Partners uh the the stadium can be can be can be four it can be sold out you have a great media Department great great content creation uh creative people um but all falls with winning on on Sunday winning the league winning winning games giving supporters a feeling of of Pride and of course you're gonna say yeah we have plans for two three four years but for supporter it's it's the game on Sunday it's it's winning a cup winning a trophy uh so yeah everything needs to be focused on on winning on Sunday or yeah that's of course you have a manager who do that and the coaches need to do that and the players need to do that and and and sometimes you could you maybe forget a little bit when you have success that's the success is all created on the pitch and and after that it's quite easy also the oh yeah but also because on the office we work we do this you know if we do this really well our plans are going really well but actually it's all about those 11 guys or 16 or 20 guys delivering their performance on uh on the match day and this was one of the rare Seasons where you weren't winning enough matches and you had to yeah you had to park companies with the manager would you mind sharing with us how how you get to a point where you make a decision that you need to change the manager and and just how how you deal with that really you know we often you've already said it people in football often say oh we get such criticism because people don't know the full picture and I think sometimes it's so helpful to really lay bare not everything because some things have to remain private quite rightly but enough so people can understand that you know sitting down and telling Rodeo you're fired is hard for you as well as for him isn't it I imagine yeah of course and in certain ways aren't it so it feels also not fair but explained in uh just earlier on about I think the 12 players that left uh coach had left and even when when Alfred came we still had a they say uh Martinez was still there Anthony was still there so United came at a little bit late stage for for both players um maybe we're not expecting uh maybe we should have prepared a little bit better uh for but even for Anthony this is her second year um did not even not play all the matches so in that way um your starting with a with a team that has been refurbished uh redesigned uh new technical staff and I think also the um yeah they say the the intensity of the first three months because of the World Cup or in Qatar I think there's also different periods for uh for also for the players and for the coaches so that way we are yeah uh let's say in half the film of early in November your stop already uh we had a couple of results that was not not going our way clubs that we should have beaten easily here at home or or losses away that's that's should have been avoided and of course you you talk with with the technical people with clash and Hunter also former player Harry omster the technical technical manager at that moment and and yeah you you try to speak with the coach try to find okay what are the solutions what are the possible and what conversations do you have at that point with the coach yeah of course uh not straight away after one defeat but after after after series and of course as a former play field also sometimes that's that's the players do they do the work for the manager it's it's it's yelling together uh it's a it's a tactic right is it bad luck which is a Bose red card or or no no penalty or or or a penalty in a 90th minute but you try to find out what's what's happening what the situation and uh and try to support as much as possible that you that you support the manager that that you uh that your science in the summer but what are the warning signs that you can see something starting to go wrong yeah of course uh possession is nowadays it's it's it's it's it's it's data is one one part of the game nowadays expected goals or that kind of stuff but in general you want yeah the the eye is sometimes not wrong from the truth and in that way it's uh you you've sometimes see or hope to expect more from from a player or from a game or from a technical decision or from The Shining that that the club made and in that way um yeah they're the results and certain point started to deteriorate and then we'll yeah the pressure will mount on a coach and also on the on on let's say on the board or on the players to whatever to make a decision uh on a position that's that we just filled in and hoped to have like a long-standing relationship that's what you built for and yeah that's fair is also awful always offer to you have to release people from from functions that that they put a lot of heart and and and and and and hard work and effort and determination into uh to have a conversation that that is over but the reason I ask Catherine is because we recently interviewed Steve Parish the owner of Crystal Palace on this and I think Steve is uh sorry to interrupt you but I think Steve is somebody who's like yes sir he has certain way to address it and I think every person is different sure but I like to sorry I like to hear of course what Steve Perry said like well Steve was talking to us about um about he has a former footballer Mark Brown that sits with him at games because he doesn't understand necessarily the football side of it in the depth that that you would and what he was talking about was that there's sometimes things that the I if you have if you're not immersed in football that you wouldn't spot it that a footballer would so he said when he knew for example that things were moving in the right direction it was in a nil nil draw that Crystal Palace were involved in but Mark Wright had said to him this is going in the right direction and it was the subtleties of the pressing and the way that the team were defending that he said I didn't I wouldn't have seen that so I'm interested in what are those subtleties beyond the results all the data that you as a former football look and look at a manager and go this is either going right or this is going wrong and and that maybe we wouldn't spot as non-footballers I think it's difficult to wear to explain what it is but yeah even as a when you're on the pitch uh or I've been in I've been in teams also that's um that that's that the manager was not getting the full credits or or the full attention of of the players and and you get some Alibi slidings or lb defending uh at certain points sometimes it's not easy for players to step up to a director or to okay uh the coach is not not right or the drills are not uh not the way we expect it or we're not trading hard enough not always easy Zone in that way um yeah you you can spot sometimes how players are whatever yeah combining with each other but of course you're not in a dress room you're not in you don't see the technical uh discussion that that that the players with the coaching staff have uh for example in Germany I think and techno director is always in the bench he's always at the meetings so in that way somehow it feels like that it could be a possibility there's already no what's what's what the plan was what uh how was execution on on the Saturday or on the pitch is is different compared to the way they're trained or they they spoke about how the how are we going to win this game how can we technically uh adjust floor falls from the from the from the other team yeah we have technical people also so that's their job to do the technical decisions and and and and and and get also for the players for The Scouting and of course I see some tapes also about players but I'm not the Heavenly deeply involved because yeah I'm the the CEOs you have different parts of course my first love is football and and football is much media the the most spoken word in an organization of a football club uh but in general yeah you have people hopefully do that do their job and and find it correct find the right players find the right coach for your for your team and of course I have a I have a saying and and of course you have whatever rubber stamp it uh so in that way it's it's important to to get that assessment also for yourself if it's the right man you know and and in that way try to make sure that that that ambition as a club uh combined with with the work rate and the ethics that that this new manager have that coincides with each other and despite all of that thought all of that hard work speaking to all those people things can and do still go wrong absolutely how hard is it personally on a on a season like this yeah tough absolutely yeah your uh yeah it's it's really tough uh but hey that's that's the name of the game it's uh that's it's performances that's uh that's that's yeah that that makes or break people uh that's that's for a player that's for a coach that's for an uh for CEO and that's uh that's the way where we're living and and I'm not used to anything else to be fair well it's a toughest thing the toughest thing is um the doubts that people have in your ability uh okay yeah a former goalkeeper or former player but yeah I've I've retired 12 years 13 years 12 years ago I'm doing this 11 years already so I'm not I'm not I'm not a novice uh I think the organization is strong uh has been stronger in the past but yeah the same like you need to develop all the time and of course also for your own qualities you have to do every time think or your own quality is still enough for the organization where you're working and do you did you how much effort did you put into it how much effort do you were still willing to put into it um and if if the connection is still there with your with your staff it's a bit of the people in your office with the players and that's that's I think a constant situation that that you want to feel for yourself also and I'll force uh I think the other way Media or people are thinking or social media is is reacting on defeats or bad signings or good stuff or shirt introductions or commercial parties where you make an agreement with everybody likes to think of everything something and sometimes people are talking loud on TV or putting Anonymous stuff on the internet and that's most the time for your let's say surroundings it's it's it's not nice but for yourself you know what it is you know the football world and you know you know you need to perform and you're as good as your last match that you played and you're good as your last shining or the the decision that you made as a director I think people often forget that you've got kids that can read that stuff you've got parents and like no matter how old you become you're always your mom and dad's little boy or your partner you know who's really defensive and protective of you I think people often forget the the cost on those people in your life don't they yeah okay but we know that you should be on your computer or uh or or or a smartphone and you uh put something in and it's gone for you uh but it's out in the world but it's it's I think it's more about like what happens 20 years when you're when you're talking about with your mates and your discussions uh and that that came that's coming now on the Internet or on social media uh or or on shows like whatever not like this I think that your quality of uh or podcasters higher than other ones but uh yeah you can track attention for your opinions uh different opinions uh crazy opinions or or very direct ones yeah that attract audience that attract viewers that are track commercial party that connect with a program and that's that's what the world make uh takes also at the moment so you're talking about having like the ability to adapt your communication style to the different audiences and I was intrigued reading a story um from your early days as a player when van Hal was a coach and I read that he used a um company to come in and do psychometric testing with the players so he could understand how players best received information and how he could be more flexible than adapt the way that he delivered his message so it was understood you're smiling in terms of do you remember that period and and what have you taken from it that you could still use and uh apply in your role today yeah I think you'll learn from everyone I think with fungal and I yeah he gave me the opportunity he discovered me he found me at my local Club so he scouted my myself so they signed me for for IX gave me gave me the chance in the first team by replacing Cindy Menzel um but he was I'd say one of a kind like the way the eye for detail the the communication he had with with players the the the way on the technical side and Technical Society wants to improve the players um that's yeah almost Second To None to be fair what he did with our crop of players that's uh that that was in in the mid 90s and also the The Next Step that he had at Barcelona and Bayern Munich and and and and and and and and let's say man united also so that's almost surprising of course he had success on the on the in the in the leagues the titles that he won uh but the previous club that I would have expected with the rich qualities and everything and to also I have yeah to do that all once again also in lecture in the Champions League and in that way what what you learned uh he always tried to find yeah what's behind the player because not only the player that makes a difference also the human being also behind the player what's what's the situation at home what's uh is he happy with his wife uh survived pregnant uh did he moved him he's living too far away from Amsterdam so it was all the things that could matter to that that's that's that performance of the player would would harm uh he would check that out and and making sure that he could help as good as possible on that part that's a really good strong culture um let's talk about a maybe a challenging culture when you were with the Dutch Squad in 1996 and there was question marks about cliques and groups and separation I'd love to know what you've learned in that period because I you know as we've spoken about a lot in the last little while the tough times are often the educational times yeah I think we're ever coming uh to the tournament as uh winning the Champions League 95 losing the final with I think a lot of IX players some players already playing for big big clubs uh so I think we're could have been one of the favorite and things of the team was developing uh I think the success of that the lack of lack of success or or tensions didn't really feel it and of course it's uh I've been someone that's never been attached to that to one group I was likely to be uh yeah floating around because I was yeah I was always the guy with the different Jersey where I was also a guy with two other guys who were doing different different drills than the than the 18 outfit players who do whatever uh passing drills or uh five against force or that kind of stuff so I always for myself I never felt really only connected to one side or so I try to even move between tables I never really felt it more afterwards things were explained or or but I think the media made a lot of things of it but it was more like our own thoughts and the players and dimension things but in that way you were a player you were not you're not that far ahead you're just thinking about your own performance and of course winning winning a championship like like the Euro 96 is it would have been messy but afterwards yeah there was a holiday you go on holiday until after two and a half weeks you need to report to your club and you go on yeah and that's something that's that's that's been almost maybe case I close it and and let's let's make the success of the next step I'm interested in that in that role that he said of floating between groups because to bring it to the modern day you talk about how when times get tough people then start to have doubts people divide themselves up into cliques as protectionist behavior that goes on in Dysfunctional cultures so what did you learn from maybe that experience or in other teams where those cliques developed that you could help our listeners understand how do you avoid that happening what are the tactics and the techniques that you learn yeah not even tactics or something and same in my office especially in the early Parts I like to whatever every day or every two days just to walk to through the whole office and everything it's not not really particular meeting or seeing someone but to make sure that you have a glance over shoulder or what are you working on at the moment or because in the early part it was everything was new for myself because yeah you uh advertised at 40. I did I did a Sports Management course in Amsterdam for a year and I started as a marketing director but the idea was to have at SEO that that was important was need to run the company or the club and other parts you need to develop myself so I learned a lot from him like how he dealt with uh with that that kind of stuff but also to yeah I always find it important that everybody is is working together to get a success for the club so it's not only the players but also the guys who are in the in the laundry room or the security guards or the the guys who are making sure that the pitch is okay and I think that's that's to give a little bit attention to other people who are maybe at a lesser level than yourself that that's that's that's the other makes your organization much much better to make sure that everyone is connected everybody is pulling the same court to make sure that the success is is not only the players the coach the the the the board of directors uh the shareholders but like the whole club but I've worked in dressing rooms myself where you can see these clicks or division starting to emerge and when you speak to players they go but that's not strange because certain people like a type of music they like uh like the dress in certain certain way uh so it's not strange that people are yelling together better the love of cars or younger guys like to go out a little bit more you have some experienced guys who just whatever if you're married or so it's not strange that's that are groups or sure uh tables together you talk easier you have the same sense of humor uh you have the same background and of course it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's a bit of national team it's different of course and then you all come together for a New York experience and but in addressing we have four Brazilians two two Mexicans uh three Italians uh yeah it's it's logic and a couple of homegrown players and a couple of signings that that are yeah teams together or or groups together sitting at a table you like the the certain kind of food you go to the same restaurants so in that way it's it's not strange that are in a in a in a team and it's it's the work of the of the coach uh to make sure that everybody sticks together and they may own the pitch uh the work rate is there the intensity is there the quality is there and making sure that that average determined whatever to win that game on on a Saturday but that's almost the Alchemy of a great coach to take that diversity that can be a strength as you say but then create cohesion when you need to go in performance that's the bit that I'm intrigued to understand what what are the lessons that our listeners could say of of how they can do it whether it's in the staff room at a school or whether it's in their own business or maybe a family unit how do you get that cohesion what are the best ideas you've seen yeah yeah not you guys but there's some people won't always find want to find the finish of there's no one not always not always a reasoning behind uh the way you do things or or that I read in a book that this way you need to behave as a director or this way you need to create your team and I think it's also a lot of you have your own feeling your own how much effort do you do you put in in in in making sure that you that that you show that you're a leader not not to show that you do that you're make sure that people see you as a leader uh it's also doing some dirty stuff so not only uh whatever uh uh shouting at people or throwing things if if a presentation is not working there's normal behavior and that's I think normal behavior is something that is not always easy for people who are elevated who are uh uh promoted in certain positions uh because you are you start maybe thinking oh I'm bigger than them or bigger than this I've never had it in my life I I that's okay if you get a lot of respect you earned your money you have your trophies uh everywhere you go you see an English guy or may not always shake your hand out thank you very much for Moscow yeah it's fantastic that you're making uh yeah and an impression on somebody's life or somebody's uh way he thinks about you but yeah you're you're not different than the other than the guy that shakes your hand let's talk about Manchester United then um this came relatively late in your career relatively late 30 35. you were getting ready to retire on a beach absolutely almost yeah what uh what was said to convince you to join that football club or was there no convincing needed no no not a lot now I had a chance in uh when I left ice in uh in 99 uh the first had a meeting in Liverpool um didn't didn't sign for them then Juventus game I went with my agent over to Turin we had a good meeting in uh in one of the golf courses in one of clubhouses and I think now we're 85 90 convinced to to join uh Juventus I think Demi got a call from Pome United well would you want to come over when you come over even that time I think was still before the championship final um I think yeah I think no Italy I think that was like also contribute with great football tradition I wanted I wanted to they could take a different approach how I yeah I uh I signed free offenders to be fair and uh so that time there was an opportunity already to sign for United uh so but yeah after all after two years she finished four years at Fulham and uh at 34 yeah getting the opportunity to play again for one of the biggest lobs in the in the world yeah that was an amazing amazing experience and think I think ruthfulness was a big part of it I think he spoke also with with Ferguson at the end of that season uh how about what's going to be there what's going to happen what are the what are the chances what players you want to sign yeah yeah maybe you have to get some experience at the back and you have to have two young young Center halves we need no yeah why don't you think about van dershar yeah but he's 34 and you should Fulham and yeah okay but like the level that he has and the national team and he has a clause in the contract blah blah blah so I think yeah before he knew it um yeah I had a voicemail message from Ferguson at my uh when I came back at a training and uh yeah that was what was on the message yeah the message was hello Edwin's Alex Ferguson you want to hear the Mission Again Messi match it again press three okay I like it twins Alex Ferguson here and I will really like to want to sign you at Maine Ida then we can we have a group I couldn't understand it like whatever what am I hearing here so you want to hear the machine press three so after whatever listen three or four times something to the message before it start to date okay this this could this could be interesting and I think we had one meeting one conversation by phone and nowadays you take ages to get to get players shined and to get to get agreements and I think with my agent and then David Gill came over to uh to uh to shavening here in uh one of the one of the cities near the near the beach I think with two three hours where yeah we're done and uh I send a two-year contract so you played for ayax you played for Juventus you played for Fulham and then you go to Manchester United when we spoke to um Robin Van Percy about this we asked him what was the difference between his experience at say arsenal and Manchester United and he summed it up and said Arsenal people like to win at Manchester United you had to win what would you see was the difference between those other clubs and Manchester United now um I think it's a little bit different for me because my initially period I won a lot of things yeah at IX I think we're a very demonic manager uh great culture at the club uh young players that wanted to improve to wanted to get better hungry Frank Reichert is one of the leaders who won everything was like an icon for us and they came back to help us achieve what we wanted to achieve then two years full of two years Juventus four years at Fulham not a great stage of my career so I the first day I came at United I felt like a warm bath that this is the level I wanted this is the the the pressure that I needed this is the way that football need to need to be played this is uh I'll determine you uh yeah how hard you work and and the quality of the players around you the of course the the the foundation over there already so that way um yeah from start to finish it was an amazing six years and so many people try and find the answer to why that club and that team did so well in that period what do you put it down to quality of players of course a fantastic manager uh but yeah I think you know also they're not that Ferguson was taking the sessions or something uh I think he had to go wait and then a field coach and assistant coach uh even when the meetings were there uh of course he always you all started coming with with two or two remarks about the history about the boss or if you remember this game and we have to uh so that way it's it's it's the whole um yeah Aura of himself the the things that you want already of course the way you developed the club that he that he almost owned the club uh with two guys with David Gill and it's uh with uh with a bit himself the um yeah the backbone of the team with with players who are yeah homegrown Geeks Neville um of course a fantastic player but he was not really into the conversations Paul was just wanted to play football they just want to want to kick a ball as hard as possible in into the goal uh I was really good at that for example but uh uh media duties after a Champion League match he went to the to the exit door to the fire fire uh to the fire extra door whatever and nowadays yeah you see him talking on uh on uh as a pen that's full of opinions everything so that that's funny how people develop but just the the the sheer uh desire to win this year desire to to protect the image that the United have and uh and and win their Champions League again that was uh that was to to be a part of that that era that whatever had that that had in the 60s that in the 90s and to have that in the in the 2000s 2008 2009 that's that's six years that I were able to play for United yeah the success that you had with that with that group of players and also of course you need to refresh it and over of course even there we had some bad signings and signing didn't work out but but the quality was was there and uh that was it was an amazing amazing uh amazing period of my my career to end at such a high note I've been told about the sign-ins that didn't work out is interesting again we we were lucky enough to sit down with Rio Ferdinand and he spoke about some of the sign-ins that he fell in hindsight they the dressing room treated quite harshly rather than put an arm around the shoulder and tried to help them so the example he decided was the Brazilian Anderson where he said he felt that he struggled with his diet and his lifestyle and the dressing room mocked him rather than tried to guide him in a more helpful way what was your experience of that dressing room when you talk about the will to win of course quality um recognize quality when you're away on the pitch if you play ball hard to a player and it receives it straight away on the right foot or of your passion um I think but the aspect of having fun or or joking or yeah that's also part of the culture of in football club and that's there but um I can understand a little bit what he said but I think at a certain point you two three times you say something to a player and that's the third time or the fourth time is still not reacting or showing different Behavior yeah then you need then yeah I almost need to drop need to drop because you have to think about your own performances making sure that whatever the the area where you're sponsored for that that's working um every young player of course you need to help your you give him advice but you need to yeah be open also to take the advice and if there's nothing happening yeah then you have to take along and and find someone else who you can help and hopefully um yeah bring into the team to get a performance job and that the other end of the of the spectrum is Cristiano Ronaldo who like you has gone on to have a career of true longevity what are your memories of sharing addressing them in a club with him the restaurant did a share for me you mean exactly the judging that he was lucky enough honored to share with you yeah no I think that's right I remember one of the conversation with him in the in the gym or really the the smaller the old gym and everything and if he was a work I'll just I think it's when the elastic bands with his ankle and everything and started talking and yeah I never really want to become the best player in the world so yeah said Ronnie said a lot of people want to say that no no I really want it that's like okay but you what are you gonna do about it yeah everything uh I think his work ethic the way he developed himself he very uh make sure that his body was specialist around him the the way he trained and um I think the one of the funny stories I find always I've told a lot of people already safe often after the after the after training I didn't want to take some of my free kicks um take the second or third goalkeeper I'm 37th come on let's take one of the other guys I'm tired no no no no come on I need to I don't want to score against the best and of course then you had to free kick in the position and the stance in the ball that floated and but they always wanted to end a bit of goal so it's not even whatever that I save one okay it's finished but you also ended one and end up with the gold chip but really I also have I want to also have a good feeling of going into the game it's not only about you and and of course it's it's always been about him and and this determination and and the way that he that he conducted himself and I think a lot of people have let's say maybe got a different opinion about them but I found him really in the dressroom uh funny uh if we brought our children like a school skates or my son he always played with him I think the way that he took another step for man united it was not easy after leaving Man United and then going along for for even even higher accolades and everything in the way that he that he played at Madrid and then the goals that he scored and then the impact that he had there it's uh it's been it's been amazing yeah I think there's actually really strong lessons for the players that you have here though isn't it because there's that great phrase that Talent will get you in the room yeah nowadays it's a little bit more different it's it's foreign it's it's it's difficult to to get that internal motivation to uh to to improve yourself all the time and we have a few why is that though because like I don't know maybe it's it's it's the people that are depending on you the people that uh that's that's the cherish you that that put your uh put you on a pedestal all the time uh hard work is not not a strange word it's it's something that's really important uh getting getting somewhere is easy but making sure you take next steps you become better that you become more a more uh valuable for the team that you become more uh decisive for the team that's that's that's that's hard nowadays I think it's a shame though isn't it because you've got players like a post goals or a Lionel Messi where you look at the natural ability and feel for the game has got a certain point but but to say about hard work but for example Lionel Messi I think has tremendous qualities and talent and everything and um yes I'm not saying he doesn't work hard let me just be straight about that I suppose what I'm saying is Christian Cristiano unlike those two is has forced his success do you know what I mean he's he's he's he's he's made it happen you know and I think there's a great lesson to Young footballers there you can be here I mean I remember Jurgen klopp saying he was a second division ability footballer a Bundesliga mindset footballer so ended up in the first division that's a really strong message for people that what is the phrase hard work beats Talent when talent doesn't work hard hey that's what Ferguson always said something something interesting with Old Trafford he said that let a lot in the other dressing room if they if they if you you go to work hard they're never going to beat you but if they work harder if they worked as Shock shopping thing and you think okay it's going to be Preston it's going to be whatever uh Bournemouth they can win so it all starts with working hard work hard then your extra qualities will shine so internal motivation then is something that you did have where did that come from I think a normal upbringing I uh I came to ice when I was 19. I've never been in one of the regional selections until 18 I was playing my local local village with my friends uh my friends of course as a football team but not on a high level uh I'm doing either the newspaper around I was working in the flower boob area so I did a lot of a lot of stuff in 2011 at school until about 19 then suddenly I got signed for ayaks um so I think I had a normal upbringing and also I find it important to the people that that are around you that that's that are working also for the club or in a normal way and where do you get your motivation from now because like you can't do your job unless you work really hard yeah that's true give us give us an insight into well you know the hours of the hours you work you'll have you never you don't wanna that's it's so it's uh it's it's continuously and that's uh it's it's hard it's it's it's whatever you have your your if your phone you have your laptop you have the calls you have every every if you have your dinners if you work if you're uh time you go to games you want to be uh you know you have to commercial or commercial uh commercial Partners it's it's events it's it's [ __ ] things are happening you need to fire someone and things are not going well there's a there's a crisis uh there's something happening or european level it's something with uh with uh with a new media deal it's it's constant so it's it's um at certain points it's it's a not a drag uh it's it's [ __ ] hard and that's that's something that's where we're friends of yourself why do you need it why you have your money you can have an easier life and and of course something that something goes to that goes through your mind but then one way you have yeah you want you wanna You Wanna Be success success sometimes sometimes also addictive uh you wanna you wanna achieve things and uh and that's that's that's that's something that you carry with you all your life and if you play different sports or with your friends you always want to win uh I remember I have one one of the older it's not the employee but it's more like a volunteer said Edwin every time I want something and you're also you're fighting me on everything it looks like whatever you want to win every game yeah but I maybe that's true but I think when I'm in my right I I think I want to achieve this and not that what the thing that you mentioned or that that you want to do because I think in yeah this is the way forward that I need to need to do that you know what I I also think and I may be totally wrong here I think there's an element here that you love proving people wrong and when you talk about one of the hardest parts is people that say form a goalkeeper former footballer I think you get an energy from that I think you love to show people that you can be a former footballer you can be a former goalkeeper you can also be a a CEO of a business turning over hundreds of millions of Euros a year when we're not fixed we're not in a box I think it's true I think also because let's say I uh I've not been the biggest talent yeah I've I've played a good career I had a great career that I think I was I think really good at looking through what was happening I don't think I had the greatest reaction I don't think I had was the the most elegant goalkeeper but in the way that I played the way I could I could see through uh the game making sure that the players are in the right position uh making the save when one of us met when it mattered that brought you to a certain level that's something you want to yeah emulate or or show that again and of course I don't think this this job is is something you're going to do all my life and a certain way you want to have your rest I want to have your um yeah your quality of life also the moment that the phone is not ringing anymore that's that the emails are not not that important anymore um I think that's also something that you need need to give also back to your family and and for your own Shake of mind and showing the point that that you know what's uh what life is also about we're almost finished we're about to move on to our quick fire question that's great questions in whatever 10 minutes ago I was my my next meeting already so thank you before we do this final very few quick questions I just want to ask you about the moment that you get the phone call from Johan Cruyff I mean this is a significant moment in your life he rings and offers you the opportunity to be a director at this Football Club what was your interest in reaction me uh our sales United I never thought about it of course The Mummy calls and so yeah you think about it and you speak to some other people about it and of course I took a management course and I need to need to find out what is what is live spoke along to David Gill also about about the decision you need to make the the way that you that you need to lead a Company the company the club that kind of stuff a lot a lot of what kind of things are are are you need to fight against or so in that way it also wasn't great intermission period and especially where there was a group of ex-players that that was surrounding ayox uh it's Frank the Boer with with Mark of marsh the upstom MIM young Dennis Burke Camp so all those kind of things that's yeah to work together again on the pitch for off the pitch in into the football club giving something back to the club that gave us our first opportunity yeah that was amazing to do and how big was your imposter syndrome at that time that kind of my body um imposter syndrome that feeling that you can't necessarily do something no no no I think it was important to have that uh that say that CEO that was his job was to lead the leader Club but also to develop myself so I needed a a somebody to to see what yeah what is life in in a suit uh what's what what are what are meetings along our uh how do you make decisions uh how do you get input from a lot of people so it was great to have like a three four year period like uh I don't I didn't know if they're going to call it a trial period but to see if if things were gelling or working if you really wanted it I just think that footballers don't know that right what goes on in the offices does it not make it a healthier Sport and a healthier world if more time was put into educating players about what actually goes on aside from the match on a Saturday yeah absolutely uh that would help I think there are more and more courses available I think the uaf do a lot of other stuff I just speak regularly I have a new ifs here with uh like I take an MP program I think for example the Mania features wasn't there a couple of Brazilians Nigel DeYoung was there so it's it's more and more that players are having the ability to not only okay the interview but you're going to be are going to be a coach now there are also more possibilities nowadays and of course you have ambassadors and that's whatever relatively it's easy with with the the the pr that you have that with the guy that you have the the performance that you had for your Club to do that but it's it's it's it's an amazing feeling to give something back to yeah to your club or to to the football World of the experience that that we gained over so many years and finally how do you think you've gone from being one of many recruits that Johan Cruyff brought to the club as a director to learn about football to being the CEO how have you made that Journey yeah I I've I explained it also earlier when I was as a goalkeeper I was okay I was here at the backstory uh of course Defenders City midfielders and you have the attacking 10 and you have the strikers yeah as a director it's always said okay you have to lead from the top I have top down but yeah I'm yeah I don't want to be in the top I want to be making sure that that I push the people that are there so I was led from the back oh my overview everything was behind me that was was not good because it was a goal so and that way I always had everything in front of myself so I always like to have yeah things in front of me so because that's that's me always my my perspective a couple years ago I played a testimonial game about Outfield I was more like a midfielder and certainly I got balls played into myself and you have people coming in your back and I didn't really like it because I've never no experience about looking over my looking over my shoulder of course hours my whole life is things in front of me that's what I like to have that you see what's happening and hopefully you can make the right decision to have an impact on the results of the game or making sure that they have an impact on uh on the on the on the direction of the club where we need to go and and reaching a European level uh uh I think almost whatever five [ __ ] seconds from a uh from a championship final in 2019 playing Europa League final in 2017 yeah those who are the moments it needed to happen uh we're a little bit off it at the moment and uh let's let's make sure that we bring IX back to to the level and the quality on the European states that that needs to be yeah brilliant so we normally wrap up with a series of quickfire questions Edwin so the first one is what are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you have yeah I know I still answer my phone if somebody calls me at 11 30 I uh doesn't matter appointments are in my diabetes that probably then that probably don't need so I'm quite relaxed to be fair I could be I should be hard in certain certain ways okay interesting um what is your biggest strength what is your greatest weakness I think I'm I'm um uncollective I I I I I'm not not that quickly into into a panic or or I don't know what's happening um there was my quality on the pitch and I think hopefully it's also I'm having my quality here and uh as a director and the other one was weakness weakness probably to uh probably too nice what advice would you give to a teenage Edwin just starting out yeah it's fantastic to do something that uh that's that's in the area where you're you're grown up or you became a man um I was a child I was quite um quiet and didn't want to be seen quite tall and sometimes when tall people they like to make themselves a little smaller but at a certain point you come out to in the Limelight um and you're there so it's it's it's just great to yeah to to be something and to that a lot of people get enjoyment from can they have pleasure from it and of course you're not bigger than a club you're not you're just helping try to help the club as far as possible to reach and to bring success to supporters I think football club that live and and the support to live and die for that club and you see that what I mean with the Super League or whatever two three years ago and of course a club need to earn money because you need commercial Partners you need a guy to buy a lot of money for for a business room but in general the supporters are yeah the backbone of the club one book that you would recommend to the readers of the high performance book club when I was really young I read I was I was hungry for sure I was always reading but to be fair since since I started this job it became more and more difficult even podcast a lot of people listen when they whatever doing the dishes or walking the dog and I think I've listened to one or two of them but it's not really my thing so um I liked I liked the book about um I saw I bought a lot of books at the airport when you go on a trip or you buy okay how to manage your time how to how to make a difference in the boardroom or you start you start those books and you think okay it's rubbish uh it's not rubbish but learning on the job uh the experience that I that achieved uh the connection that you have the the people the CEOs of other companies who are uh could be a a bouncing Board of yourself that I think that is fine people that that can help you that that you trust that that give you advice that uh that you can need on the uh when it's difficult how important is like I say to you Legacy um yeah it's not I think I have it as a player um you achieve something here you achieve something in Manchester at Juventus and uh I've never been back to Fulham for example so I would love to go to Fulham on a normal way either so just go there go to Cape and college take the bus from from Kingston or something over Putney Bridge those things what my my kids did to experience at experience it again with them or maybe with their grandchildren those things that will be great and uh Legacy I think a club like IX it's it's to bring that back to to a bit with all the people with with all the work that's been done with with many people that that are not here at the moment anymore but yeah I found it more like a [Music] um I call it with with a baton and I can uh really like like a relay yeah I have the better net in my hand and if you want to you want to give it to someone else uh that it's that it's better equipped uh financially on the support of site and give it to someone else who do something with it because it's not my club it's the club from the supporters uh I had a fantastic time as a player and as a director and it's looking forward to whatever next couple years and let's see what it what the book about it will become and the final question um thank you so much for giving us your time and it's so interesting to break down what's been a it's it's good to talk after quite a difficult season because I think it gives such a unique perspective to football fans who all have a very strong opinion about the game and about the job that people like you do so the final message really um not just for those football fans but for the Myriad of different people that have tuned into this conversation what would you like to leave ringing in their ears your final message for living a high performance life don't forget to enjoy of course that's what I've never ever do but hard times are you take it on uh sometimes the enjoyment or the success they get as part of the job it's normal uh get on with it but don't forget to enjoy it foreign hey guys it's Jake here listen before you go please do me just one favor hit subscribe it makes such a difference to us the more subscribers we get then the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the names we can attract and the more impact we can have for you so thanks for watching and please subscribe right now

Channel: High Performance

Views: 118,298

Keywords: Football, Podcast, The High Performance Podcast, Jake Humphrey, Damian Hughes, Liquid thinker, Ajax, Ajax FC, Manchester United, fulham fc, Ajax ceo, ajax ceo quit, ajax resigned, ajax manager quit, pedro, belgium juventus players, alvarez ajax, ajax away kit, Edwin Van Der Sar, Van Der Sar, van der sar, Goalkeeper, Legendary Goal Keeper, the flying dutchman, edwin goalkeeper, van der sar goalkeeper, christiano ronaldo, lionel messi, van der sar moscow, soccer, eufa, league, foot

Id: Bq-CGdSfU6U

Length: 73min 52sec (4432 seconds)

Published: Mon Jun 12 2023