Eddie Howe: What I've Changed At Newcastle United

I did football uh management because I loved it and um I loved helping people I love developing footballers and trying to help change their lives I wasn't doing it necessarily for me or for the money so when I came out of it I was like let me reset and see what I want to do there might be something else that comes up in my life and a direction that takes me somewhere totally different and how did you know when you were ready uh probably the harder I worked a couple of hours a day at the start I'm just going to write this trainer session down so probably three four hours a day to five six to seven eight and then almost it was up doing that and then that was all I was doing so that was when I knew I'm like why am I doing this you know I'm doing this because I want to get back in and when I get back in I want to be I want to be good and then an opportunity comes up and it is a Newcastle United can you explain to us the process of how how the job came to be my my unique selling point if you want to call it that what I think I do best is coach and develop players you know training is going to be hard training is going to be intense training is going to be detailed we're going to have a clear philosophy there'll be no hiding places how do you interpret trust and how do you build it and develop it players have to believe that you love them players are only going to play for you to their best levels if you have that trust between you the manager loves me so give us an example then of what you would do now differently well the first thing I did at Newcastle you just reminded me is well Eddie first of all thank you very much welcome to high performance thank you it's an absolute pleasure and honor to be here with you both well it's very kind of you you know how we start these podcasts because um you've heard a few of them what is your version of high performance my version of high performance is getting the very very best out of the people you have um I think consistency is absolutely key to that um as as a football manager it's getting the best out of a group of players and getting them to to play better than they think they're capable of very nice but also it comes down to you as well and I want to really focus on sort of your experience after you left Bournemouth and arrived here at Newcastle so for people that listen to this and and don't know the story we had a conversation on the phone maybe would it be about a year ago yeah I think it was about a year ago and you kindly sort of reached out to me because you were listening to high performance right yeah and I always wanted to then have a conversation no actually if you remember I said why don't you come on the podcast and doing what your answer was to that I think I refused to know you refused you said wait till I wait till I'm back in the game because this is when you were having your year out and so I wondered whether you would be happy to approach this interview from the perspective of what you learned in that year when you weren't managing rather than focusing on everything that you learn when you're in the game yeah I mean I think at that time I think it was during lockdown so the first thing I did when we got relegated was sort of mourn and and sort of grieved that thing that had happened that failure in my eyes um and it took me a period to sort of come out of that malaise that was in for for a while and then immediately I was like right I want to analyze what happened and sort of look at myself and go right how can I come back a much better version of the manager that's just left the game and part of my learning then was to go and listen to your podcast which I'd never really heard about I stumbled across it and I was hooked straight away I was like these are amazing and you were both amazing and uh I wanted to reach out and just tell you that you'd really help me in that in that period so can we go in then to that period that you spent out of the game that year out of the game you've come with some some notes right I asked you I reached out and asked whether you wouldn't mind just coming with five of your biggest lessons from that time out of the game and how they sit with you now so how should we start this yeah well I think um just I didn't have a plan so I as I said I'd come out of that thing um the the failure the relegation and thought right how did that happen what what did I do wrong um I'm very honest and open with myself and I asked people that I know to sort of critique me and give me feedback and I did it myself as well and I thought these are the areas that I think I need to improve and how do I go about doing that and part of that was was education so improving me was a big part of what I had to do uh I'd just gone through a really intense period I don't know how long it was 12 years in management where you don't get time to even blink so you're working you're reacting you're planning preparing but you're not sort of investing in yourself and working on any potential weaknesses that you might have what did you find then well I looked at it and thought that there's definite things that I had neglected and through work that I had to really really focus on so my my body of work that existed was all on in books so I had a tower of Diaries where I'd put every training session recorded it and that was it that was my body of work so if you had asked me a question on how do you deal with uh problem players or how do you deal with this situation that occurs in your job I wouldn't be able to give you an answer really well yeah because it would have been in here but it wouldn't have necessarily been uh something that I could refer to or a body of work behind it so I spent hour after hour after hour in my study uh uh digesting all my training sessions coding them putting them into groups um and that just happened by chance I just started fiddling around and then I was like I've got to get this done so now if you ask me to find a training session or how do you play against this type of Team I'd be able to find it straight away see that reminds me of the story attributed to Jose Mourinho I did that when he left Barcelona before he went into uh coaching he talks about that was the period where he collated what he called his Bible but his methodology that he was going to implement when he went into clubs and some of it was around the social just the Tactical the psychological and the technical side of it so what kind of categories did you include when you were starting to called these 12 years of experience well it it started with the training sessions so it started with the basics in possession out of possession and it just grew legs it just grew so many different bits off of it and I was like the more I started to enjoy the process and thought this is going to help me the the more um intense it got so I'd gone right through that and then it branched into all the other areas of the job so everything that comes with being a football manager so dealing with players dealing with the media um board level uh supporters all my philosophies around how I want to work what am I going to do on Mondays Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday um things that I know again I'd had it all in here but I didn't have anything to refer to you know the brain can only take so much information so um I felt this is my Bible now it's it's something I refer to every day and use consistently and away from the the football side the Tactical side what did you want to learn about yourself and improve about yourself on a on a personal level which helps you with your job well yeah I mean on a on a personal level it was about improving my my knowledge tactically so I was um I'd played near enough one system I'm not through the whole of my management career but majority I wanted to be consistent with what I did uh I wanted my players to understand what was required of them so I um I thought right I have to go away and I have to try and watch people work I have to try and improve uh my tactical understanding my my delivery so even breaking down half time team talks full-time team talks um everything that covers my job I wanted to look in depth and then find a few strategies and things that would help me when I got back in so what did you find that you were doing really well because I appreciate that the analysis was what you could do better but I think a big part of this kind of analysis is also acknowledging you were doing things very successfully for a long period yeah I suppose from from that side I'm not so good at that so I would uh uh I think a lot of my training sessions when I look back at them are very good um so I was looking back at things and I think I remember doing that about 10 years ago because I had it all on film so I was like that was really good I haven't done that since so I'm going to bring that one back out you know so you're rediscovering things you'd forgotten um so I'd say majority of my training I was I was pleased with what I was delivering um but it was a whole host of other things that go into the job that was sort of blank spaces that I needed to fill like what for example well like I said earlier like um you know if you said to me well what would you what was your philosophy at half time how do you and I'd be like well I just help my players but how do you help your players and and do you have a different ways of talking with your players are you going to do it in ones and twos you can do it in units you're going to do it all 11 where are you going to do it that sounds obvious but yeah so it was analyzing breaking that down things that I hadn't done at that level before um I wanted to make sure that I had strategies and things that I could strategically bring out when I needed them so give us an example then of what you would do now differently at half time than what you maybe would have done before this kind of introspection well the first thing I did at Newcastle and you just reminded me is um I set up a different area so the the change room is obviously the change room you'd expect most talks to be done in the change room but I almost wanted that to be the player space so there's a there was actually there wasn't a room we created a room so we knocked down a few walls and built a room next to the changing room and when I do my half-time team talk I take the lads in there and then there's a couple of tactics boarding the TV and it's a much more well it's a separate space so you try and get the lad's attention yeah uh and their focus rather than they're fiddling around with strappings and and things in around their area which they would normally do and where did you learn that from I didn't actually that was just an idea that came to me right yeah so then how do you work out because obviously you had a year out of the game right so there's a million ideas coming all the time how did you decide which idea is stuck and which ones kind of discarded along the journey well I think you're right in the front you don't want to I don't want to change everything because a lot of what I've done had worked over a long period of time so it was a case of really looking at as I said the lot of training sessions that I did I love them looking back there was a lot that I'd forgotten that I wanted to bring back in um so you've got to be very careful that you don't throw out the good stuff and bring in stuff that you're not so sure about and also it's got to be you it's got to be coming from your ideas and your method not things you've seen from other people that you copy that doesn't work so it's got to be fully embraced uh my work and I did go out and I was very fortunate enough to see a lot of teams work around the world um I think I worked it out early I think there's about eight eight different clubs around the world that I went to to see and learn and you know that in terms of is like gold dust because you're you very rarely get a chance to do that when you're so when you go into these clubs like what do you look for you know like when you've been invited in as a visitor that Beyond seeing like the surface level of like a training session what other kind of things are you looking for on those visits I think the first thing you're looking for is the culture of the the place so not not so much the training sessions as such because I think they're pretty much Universal Everyone likes to think they're unique and different but the reality is they're probably similar things going on but the culture and and everything behind the scenes is what you really get to see so I remember going to see saracens being visited and to see Sarah saracens Rugby Club and the culture there now rugby is different to football but immediately it was it was different it was a different kind of um feeling uh very uh coach orientated very uh Hands-On a lot of laptops around the training pitch um I remember one of the players leading I hope they don't mind me saying this but one of the players leading a team meeting and about the opposition so he'd been watching the opposition not the coaches and he was telling the players what to expect so some really eye-opening things that um the canonies again would I take everything that I saw no because some things wouldn't relate to football but there was a culture there that was hugely successful and very powerful I'd love to delve into some of the stuff you've got written down that you've brought with you today would you mind just sort of talking us through some of the stuff that you've you've written and brought with you from from this period um what does it start with well the first of why did I fail assess my strengths and weaknesses well let's why did I fail let's should we um yeah I saw that as a failure yeah a personal failure yeah why yeah um I think when you're managing uh you know my my feeling is that you take ultimate responsibility for what happens um and I felt that yeah I didn't do my job probably for the first time as a manager I'd uh not not um not delivered what I felt I could deliver right and I felt I needed to take accountability for that for myself not for anyone else for myself to go right okay then why and why so many different there's no one reason yeah um I'm interested in a bit about you feeling that you were no longer delivering because I imagine and I've never been a football manager but you're at Bournemouth and you're still doing what you've always done and you're still as dedicated and you're still not sleeping at night because you're wondering about result so at what point are you not doing or not delivering what you like letting yourself down like did you change what you were doing did you lose the drive get disillusioned no none of those things no I I worked you know I could look myself in the mirror and say it wasn't through lack of effort or commitment or anything to do with anything connected with the job um but clearly from what I felt the results and the performances weren't what they could have been and ultimately I think you have to then take responsibility for that as the leader of of what's going on um but then as I said there's no one reason as to why anything doesn't work there's probably 15 to 20 little things that go to make that big performance not right would you mind sharing a few because I think people that aren't in the game running any business this is really helpful for them for when they find that things aren't going as well as they used to um well that's a difficult one because it it can be quite personal yeah so yeah I think that's a difficult one for me to say right this happened and this happened yes up and I'm just trying to you know that's something I haven't written down um but ultimately I felt I felt yeah I felt that I didn't deliver and I could have done things in hindsight and hindsight's a wonderful thing but I could have done things with hindsight to have changed that our destiny and I think about I think that's a healthy thing to go through because I think if you don't then what happens next time so when you because again I'm fascinated by almost like these little threads that eventually pull them all and the whole thing starts to unravel what are the kind of threads now that you'd be alert to in a new club that you go if I start to see like a little fissure there or a little crack started I would deal with that a lot faster what kind of examples would you well I I think the core basics of A Team like you need the team to be committed you need the team to uh play for the team not for the individual with the right team um you know the core sayings of around teamwork if they don't exist you're not going to be successful right so they're you know they're warning signs that the team is not where it needs to be and then you need to do things that that impact that now there are other things that maybe sometimes they'll be on your control injuries and lots of different things that you don't necessarily have control over that's why I say it's never just one thing yeah there's always a host of reasons but overall I think if you don't take accountability for them you're not doing your job as the leader what's next on your list of learnings so then then it was about improving me so the first section really was improving me and that comes back to all the visits that I I undertook to different people different teams but I I tried to do it slightly differently so um and again this is organic it wasn't me beforehand thinking this is just in the process so I visited and I didn't realize this until I wrote it down two CEOs three owners of football clubs because I wanted to see a different perspective I wanted to go to the owners to say what you like in a manager what don't you like I like that and what surprised you from the answers you've got then um How Deeply they thought about their appointments um how much they the personality of the manager also played a hugely important part in their support or not support for the manager um it's a it's a complex thing I think you know that human relationship you have with someone I think if they genuinely like you and think you're working hard for for them and they will give you a little bit longer so what about managing upwards because again when we interviewed Frank Lampard on this he spoke about just that importance of alignment of not just thinking it's about managing the team downwards it's about managing the decision makers above it what kind of tips did these CEOs and club Owners give you about how they like to be communicated with and the nature of that communication well yeah there's a couple of interesting things that spring to mind so one is honesty so even if you make a complete mess as long as you hold your hands up and and then take it and admit it right they won't hold it against you well the guys they said they wouldn't they said they wouldn't but that they would uh respect that yeah rather than trying to hide it and if you try and hide something anyway that they'll soon smell it out and and know what's going on so I thought I thought that was a really important thing because in football you're always you're making so many decisions you're not gonna get every single one right yeah um so yeah some honesty I think was all they they were looking for um that was one of the key things very nice and where did you go to next on your Journal Discovery yeah so then I went to a couple of individuals and there's some really fascinating ones so yeah as I said a boxing I went to Shane mcguigan's Boxing Club that was fascinating saracens um and Barry Hearn so I went to see Barry in his in his house and I did think it might be interesting just to read a couple of his quotes out because I wrote them down just in Note Form but when I was looking back today before coming here I was like well they're unbelievable so it's better to be lucky than good looking tell the truth pressure is only felt by those that fail uh think poor life ends in tears so enjoy the rest of it life doesn't change sitting on a sofa avoid being avoid being a secret show how good you are for uh shout how good you are from the rooftops can't remember I'm writing here um imagine you're a new car what separates you from the others um when having a meeting know your opponent's weakness so just some amazing things that from from Barry who was fascinated I spent about three hours with him yep um and obviously he'd owned a a football club and had so many different aspects of of sport and his life he was uh absolutely brilliant with me and I loved there was another one he gave me as well he said life is like a game of snakes and ladders he said people are very good at going up the ladders um but they don't react so well going down the snakes yeah which uh just a few little things that just make you think um I thought it was a fascinating character and I think it's easy for people to derive those sort of little pithy quotes right you know if I put that on my Twitter I might get a meme of Ricky Gervais return to me or whatever but the truth is that there is actually fascinating learning in all of these little things and I think you were smart enough here not just to think right I need to look in football but I need to look out of the game I need to look in in different areas and different roles when you started to do this had you already emotionally put to bed what happened at Bournemouth and you were you were already looking forwards I think it took me a few months to be honest I think it took me about three months to raise my head above the surface and then think right now I've got to get going again and I didn't really know that that would would happen and I didn't know if I'd want to get going again at the end of it but I did yeah she's just going back to Barry so I have to say those those were things he spoke about they were stories elaborate on they weren't just quotes yeah enough to me they were stories and that's the thing I wrote down from it but they all had a meaning to him so they weren't just thank you that bit about not knowing whether you'd go again was there a was there ever a point where you thought maybe I wouldn't go back into management after after that experience yeah there was because I I'd I did football uh management because I loved it and um I loved helping people I love developing footballers and trying to help change their lives but I wasn't doing it necessarily for me or for the money so when I came out of it I was like let me reset and see what I want to do there might be something else that comes up in my life and a direction that takes me somewhere totally different I then realized very quickly that football is in me and it's not going to leave anytime soon so um as I said took me three or four months to sort of get over that and then go right and now I'm gonna get going again in football and in football management so we get quite a few queries from people that listen to this podcast that find themselves at a similar Crossroads to what you described of debating whether they're on the right career path or whether they need to Pivot and going a different direction what kind of advice or tips did you learn about this period of introspection that others could maybe apply of how they go about asking themselves that question well I think I stayed away from football um for that time so in that three four months I I really did stay away from it I don't think I did any media in my first sort of coming out of it was the media work and I um I felt I was asked to do lots of different things like Jake saying and I refused everything and I think then the first thing I did was Monday Night Football so I sort of stayed away intentionally to see if I missed it and I wanted to do it again right rather than sort of surround like going to games straight away or going Here There and Everywhere straight away I I sort of maybe on a subconscious level thought no you know stay away see if you miss it so almost that absence well it was key I think okay that reminds us of when we interviewed Matthew McConaughey and he spoke about when he makes a decision on a movie he completely commits to it and then lives as if he's going to do it and sees how that feels with him and then he'll decide not to do it and give himself at the same period of time to say how that feels and then he said at the end of that process he's got real Clarity of of his decision yeah well I I can sort of relate to that and I think the media work was very important then because then it yeah I enjoyed doing that I enjoyed analyzing the games before having because I wanted to do it properly so as Jake will know you spend a lot of time then planning and preparing the teams you're going to watch so you can give good feedback hopefully to the people that are watching so then that that stoked my fire on different levels and it helped me with a lot of what I was doing then later on with the the work and what what came next in your in your work so then the podcast and books so I loved the sir Clive Woodward's podcast with you guys I was fascinated by him and I'd met to Clive a few times and he did a presentation for my players at Bournemouth and the Paul McGinley book that you kindly sent me uh which had a couple of unbelievable quotes on there and sections in his book if anyone hasn't read that then please do it's about the Ryder Cup and his uh the way he formulated his team to try and win that card remember what stood out to you from from Paul's book oh God you're testing my memory now I can't remember which one it was I sent you I said I think I sent you a picture of of what did this mean because I think there was a quote next to a rock or a mountain or something yeah yeah yeah yeah you're right I remember that it was um it was about the storm will come yeah he basically he had a in his book he had a thing on the wall didn't he and it was it was an image of a huge Cliff face and the Sea hitting it and he was basically saying to his players like expect the storm the storm will come but knowing we talk about this a lot on the podcast you know if you can expect it you can accept it and it stops in that case golf golfers in your case footballers from being derailed from the storm when it arrives yeah and that probably resonated me from where I was in my life at that moment so I was intrigued by by that and then you sent me the book and I thought the book was absolutely brilliant um so the podcast and and reading books because it was at the time with covert as well so I couldn't always get out about like I I'd want to so then I had to seek learning from home um so yeah I think that was improving me was was massive and as I say a lot of the you know I went abroad as well I went to Spain twice I went to Denmark did one national team visit and also spoke to some former managers as well so um I spent a lot of time out and about when I could with covid um speaking to the people that I felt would would help me and on a personal level what did you learn during this period about yourself as as a partner and a parent well one of my sections on there was my family and naturally when you've been in work like I had been a committed to my work I mean the commitment it takes not just from a physical perspective as in not being at home but even when you are home as you both know that that mental someone's talking to you but you're not taking in or you're thinking and planning of something else while someone's asking you a valid question at home or you're not really there a lot of the time and I felt I wasn't so I was like right I'm going to use this time to really be at home and one of the first things I did and you'll think this is probably a bit of a crisis moment I brought a camper van so I thought right I'm gonna take this Camp about sorry around the country with my kids and I'm really going to give them the time and we did and we went on a few trips and it was it was really really good and I think it's something I look back on with huge um fondness really yeah so I remember some wet weekends in different places but but brilliant for me at that time and hopefully brilliant memories for my kids as well what did you notice about your relationship with the kids well I was able to do things that I'd never done so taken the boys to school picking them up right and little things like that that you think it's just amazing I loved it and obviously did wear off but I loved it I love being being that Dad um I took them to to cricket matches I stayed away from football but you know um yeah so I I've really invested in their lives I was there for parents evenings and stuff things I've never been I think that the big thing is where I got my coaching fixed and this is quite interesting my the only coaching I did in my time out from beginning to end was with my boys in the garden so I was actually getting a little fix developing them and thinking of drills you know with uh with three boys in the garden and how did they respond so their dad doing that terribly was was there any element because you know when we spoke you said you were quite strict about this being a year out of the game um and I think some job interviews or some job opportunities came your way in that year yeah why would you not have been tempted after seven or eight months to say you know what I've had seven or eight months of this I know I said it would be a year but I'm gonna go early go back in early what why did you turn down big jobs to fulfill an entire 12 months because I I again it wasn't well it was a conscious decision I would have a year and I told everyone that needed to know it was going to be a year and I wasn't going to break that for anything um was it important to tell people so they could hold you to what it was if you've got an agent going around going go for this interview go for that interview and I'm saying no he needed to know now you're still trying but of course he wants to get paid right of course but I was adamant and yeah I think I just I knew I needed it like the biggest mistake I could have made I believe is going straight back into another job that would have been disaster not just for me but for the club because I wasn't I knew I had to leave um at the end of that season because I think it was two week break because of covid so two weeks The Lads were back in for pre-season training and I wasn't there mentally I would not have been the manager that Bournemouth needed me to be but if that was the case with Bournemouth that was a case for anyone else so I just needed to get away um to remind me regarding Bournemouth did you did you quit that job or was it a kind of a mutual decision it was a mutual decision we had such a good relationship and such a an unbelievable time to go that we sat down and you know I discussed my feelings and it was it was mutual and would you have stayed if you'd have stayed up no I think it was I think it was time yeah I think I knew that season that um it had taken every ounce of energy out of me to uh to try and keep the team up and yeah I that's sort of a moment in my head that I just knew hard decision out there wasn't it when football's your life yeah it's a hard decision with football visual life and also their clubs that you know Bournemouth was my life so it was um but I always felt in my heart that I had to do what was right for Bournemouth not for me um which uh was absolutely true at the time I was thinking of both sides of it not just mine so do you think given your relationship and your history with Bournemouth you covered maybe a heavier burden than maybe you felt uh burnly or even coming here to Newcastle I think uh yeah I understand the question I think it's uh my history with Bournemouth and and my history not just with the club but with the town and and everything it yeah I'm not sure if burden's the right word but it's definitely my time there was intertwined with with everything you know my kids are in the academy so I'm sort of leaving training after so probably a 12-hour day to go and then watch them in the academy and help the coaches in the academy and so you're not getting back to sort of nine o'clock at night and you're doing that new enough every day so it was yeah I'm not sure burns the right word but it's almost like yeah it was all encompassing but I suppose the reason I ask is that is describing this this break almost as a grieving period and in many ways understanding the depth of the strength of that relationship it makes it more understandable than then yeah maybe another club yeah yeah I don't want to overplay it but that's that's just how I felt at the time yeah you know so you can only sort of Express how you felt and that that's how I felt at the time and that's why probably I was as strong on the year because I needed that time to fully come full circle and then be ready to go again and how did you know when you were ready uh probably the harder I worked uh on everything that I've already discussed so the harder I was I was couple of hours a day at the start I'm just going to write this trainer session down so probably three four hours a day to five six to seven eight and then almost it was up doing that and then that was all I was doing so that was when I knew I'm like why am I doing this you know I'm doing this because I want to get back in and when I get back in I want to be I want to be good and were you doing this on your own or was anyone helping you process your thoughts and your feelings and well that was difficult because my coaching team that with me now in Newcastle were in jobs and and working so you know I was sort of on my own now that's not to say I didn't have support I did have brilliant support from you know my wife and my family around me but in terms of football people I was alone which I actually in hindsight I think that was a good thing because it just took me right away I had no one else to sort of you know to to whine to or moan to it was a case of you know just get your head around it and go again and then an opportunity comes up and it is a Newcastle United can you explain to us the process of how how the job came to be uh yeah I can um so I'm just trying to think if there's anything before no so I ended up being a basically interviewed by Zoom so with the time that it was so um a lot of people on a on a zoom call and yeah that's sort of your your time to show why you want the job why okay why you think you're capable of getting the job what you will do with the team your vision and they said you know zoom's a very difficult platform I think to do that because you're you can't give off your personality as well as you can when you're with people so um I just tried to be very honest I tried to be very true to what how I work and and what I would do with the team and my philosophies around everything that I didn't present anything digitally it was all through Word of Mouth and yeah then you wait and see what what they think but um what was the what was the one message about you and what you were going to bring to the job and how how you had grown in that period out of the game because you know football judges people that aren't working right why have you had a year out it's seen as a negative not a positive so what message did you give the management here at that point it's very much viewed as a as a negative I think that that time away is almost always been away you know it's almost a viewer no one wants you um you know which wasn't uh wasn't the case and I think sometimes as I say respecting that that time that people have I think it's actually a strength not a weakness but anyway um my my unique selling point if you want to call it that what I think I do best is coach and develop players so I was very strong that if I'm able to to manage the team and the club then I will continue to coach and develop players that will never go from my DNA that's something I believe so passionately about and I think I'm good at it so that was my main push and then of course around that is the style of football and how how I see the team playing and what style of football I want to bring to Newcastle and that's fundamental to the to the board and to the supporters what they're going to see what what product they're going to watch I'm intrigued by this uh when you're applying for a job as a as a head coach here what kind of questions are they throwing at you well they want to know of course they want to know about you the person they what they want to have an understanding of your your nature and um you know because they're going to have to deal with you in a a very um strong level in loads of different things transfers and uh staff are you gonna fit you know the the city are the supporters going to take to you there's so many things that they need to know about you right and they need to know if you're strong enough big enough able enough to to come in and fulfill that role so it's you know and this is why the from the times that I went away and spoke to people you know those Impressions those first impressions that you give off and and what you say is so important but I find there's no scripts you can ever write yeah you you it has to come sort of off the cuff really it has to come from you and come from your heart if you're sat there reading something you've prepared I think you're going to fail so it's gonna it's got to be natural to you so I just spoke about as I say everything that I've really really believe in strongly so I'm intrigued then in terms of when you're presenting so you're going back on your chart record of successor Bournemouth and that seems to me like you can tell a story of how you took over a team at a low ebb and how you developed and you coach players to get right the way through to the Premier League but there's almost no expectation on you whereas here they've interviewed you for a job where you're coming in with new owners there's a huge fan base there's a huge level of expectation how did you answer those concerns that they would have had to make them feel confident to hang near the reins yeah that's a very good question that's why you're the best Damian with questions um I think can you just repeat that okay I think you know you obviously don't know my personality that well from behind this is but I put so much pressure on myself you know that no one out on the outside can put more pressure on me so what I mean by that is the Bournemouth I had such high expectations of me and the team and I felt we could really even when we got to the Premier League and I was like well in the Premier League now you know you're going to come get straight relegated First Years I've almost can't survive in the Premier League and I was like no no we we're surviving the Premier League and we do well in the Premier League so that expectation although everyone maybe had you know bournemouth's expectations here mine were here and that that never changed so then when you yes you from the outside you'll perceived to get more expectations but it really all that matters is what you see yeah and you want your team around you see and I still see that same elevated um Viewpoint that I've always seen and I remember at the time we were on air I think the day before you you what was the game where you came and you sat in the away end um before you got the job if it was announced but everyone thought it was a bright game yep but until that point oon Emery was the man who was being linked with this job wasn't he how do you deal with that when you know that a football club are also speaking to someone else or might have even had a first choice if you like who who didn't take the job how quickly do you and how do you process that and move on because I I know a lot of people who listen to this podcast that's what they struggle with the comparison with other people or you know where do I sit in a pecking order in the business or in life don't worry about it you know that was very can I control it no I can't control if they choose someone else um so if I can't control it don't waste energy on it um I understood if there was someone else that they wanted ahead of me and someone with unai's track record and managed in Europe Etc the job that he's done at other clubs I was like do you know what I'd probably make the right the same decision if I was them so I had no no issues with it at all um and then they came back and yeah the rest is history so I'm not never look I do believe in fate to a degree I do believe that think some things are meant to be and if it was meant to be it was you know it was going to happen and what's that moment like when the answer is yes how quickly does your brain start saying to you bulimia I hope you can carry this job this is big the Stadium's big the expectations big that you know these fans have been through the mill the last few years how how quickly did that appear if at all and how did you deal with it straight away straight away yeah there's no there's no uh no real celebration or honeymoon period in my head it's almost like right what are we gonna do straight away what are we going to do how are we gonna keep this team in the Premier League um and then all the work you've done previously going back to that all the preparation I've done was for that moment right I know what I'm gonna do because it's it's all planned it's all prepared so what was the first thing you did well the first thing you've got to do is get the players with you um and on side because they're the ones that ultimately are gonna do the business for you so it was a case of I was very lucky that I had three players that I'd worked with previously so Callum Wilson Matt Richie and Ryan Fraser um so that they were relationships that were really important in the early stages because we could speak with them and they could obviously speak to the other players and give them an understanding of what was to come like how we work what we want yeah and what what would you want those players to say to the rest of the squad hopefully good things yeah but not even just like not even just like I was a good guy but almost you almost want them to set the level of expectation don't you in terms of this is how hard you need to work this is how you need to be around the place what what what would you have wanted them to say well I would want them to say the truth uh what their truth is so I'd love them to have said things that I I believe but really it's what how they perceive me so yeah if they perceive me as you know training is gonna be hard training is going to be intense training is going to be detailed training is going to be all um towards our our next game we're gonna have a clear philosophy there'll be no hiding places you'll be physically demanding you've got to prepare for training you can't just stroll up and and be in disciplined and and not have slept well the night before so I would have wanted all those messages to go out but I can't force that that's got to come from them but I I I'd imagine they would have been some of the things maybe with a couple of negatives in there as well like well well yeah you know I'm I'm intense I'm you know I'm I'm focused for the players careers I really want the the players careers to excel but that can sometimes be seen as um too demanding or okay too intense or you know there's always that meat you know that balance you've got to get right um but my my main I think attribute is I'm for the players to do well so when you walk into the dressing room on that first day then at training you know inevitably you're coming in after in the aftermath of a manager that's been dismissed so things might be flat or not working or maybe a bit dysfunctional what do you do to lift the mood before you then start to get the chance to bring that intensity and the kind of more thoughtful approach to training that you're describing yeah without without remembering every uh detail of what I did but it's about setting your vision and I think we had a Clear Vision and our vision was to stay in the league right um so Vision drives decision so uh as we know so we we had a Clear Vision where our plan was was there right we have to get enough points to stay in the division um and but how are we going to do that and then that comes back to our daily work uh our practices our habits our culture what about the self-belief element it was a a team used to losing so how did you go about addressing their self-belief I think self-belief I think just comes from your work your daily work your training um so I think the culture is is absolutely fundamental so what you want to see from your players Behavior around the training ground um day to day in the morning and I think you have to set a few things in place to hopefully improve that which we which we did but then the belief quickly comes I think if the trainings pitched right players enjoy it but they find it demanding the players enjoy it but know that it's they're going to improve their team's performance on a match day and then I think if you've got good players within the group which we do I think then the quickly things can snowball from there so I'm interested in when you set that review of your own period outside of the game that you found it a little bit more difficult to focus on what you did well your instinct was to look at what could they improve what could I do better to drive confidence and that self-believe that Jake's talking about you need to almost catch people doing things right rather than catch them do it wrong so how do you overcome that inherent bias in yourself not to focus on the good stuff what kind of tips or techniques do you get to catch people doing these things well to build confidence I think I'm uh two two things I think with myself I'm more naturally hard on myself right I've always been that way but I think that's people can view that as a weakness but I think it's a strength I'm always looking to improve me rather than going on a grape yeah so I think that's a strength but with other people same with my players I'd always look at right you do this great but I think you can improve this so I'm sort of the other way around with other people okay um I think you have to players have to believe that you love them players are only going to play for you uh to their their best levels if you have that trust between you the manager loves me the manager loves the qualities that I can bring but he does want me to improve these couple of areas of my game to make me even better and that's very much how I view my players so tell us about that small word to use their trust because that fascinates me in so many ways because lots of people talk about managing these Trust of the dressing room how do you interpret trust and how do you build it and develop it well I think trust is a two-way thing I don't think it's the manager can purely trust his players and I think that there has to be a two-way thing I think ultimately as the as the manager I think you have to set that um you have to set your your boundaries with the players yet they have to you have to be very clear of what you expect there can be no gray areas in terms of behavior in terms of expectations on the training ground I think once you set those boundaries the players will either fall into it or they'll fall out of it and they fall out of it then the trust is broken if they fall into it then um I think you'll have a great relationship yeah and how many chances do players get with you to get it right I think there's I think it depends on what it is yeah uh in a sense of what they may have done wrong I you know I I do believe in in second chances I do believe in helping and educating players and and trying to guide them because you've got to look at them as your son I try and treat them as my sons really rather than as players you know what would I do if this was my son sat in front of me now how would I treat him would I give him a second chance yes I would and I try and educate him and help him Mr y he's done wrong or why I think he needs help in that area of his life uh yeah that's the view I try and take now if a player is making a conscious decision to go against what you're trying to do I think that's a totally different thing yeah and that's where a line might have to be drawn have you had to deal with that I think my career yeah yeah say thousands of times a lot of times yeah because human nature I think you're always going to get conflict in a team of 25 players when you can only pick 11. and then obviously then you have substitutes on that there's going to be moments of conflict and confrontation um so yeah and that although it's focus on don't go looking for it it'll come and find you comes to mind there so I'm interested for anyone listening to this that they might see compensation in their life or something that needs to be addressed quickly what hints and tips would you give about doing that effectively to be able to address the issue and then move on I would say as I've got older I've definitely taken more of a leaf out of Sir Alex's book where I haven't seeked it and I do believe that players will will always show you if they want to be with you or not and you don't have to push I think probably when I was younger in my early stages in my management career I would go looking for conflict and confrontation um not necessarily to prove anything but I I almost wanted to find the solution straight away yeah but sometimes you can actually gain more from stepping back um and allowing things to work out okay or then having to yeah deal with the the problem that is in front of you I think that's the better approach but I think ultimately nothing beats a very honest conversation nothing beats the truth so you've disappointed me and this is why so you either change or you you come on board probably what did you find when you arrived at Newcastle then because we all have opinions we've spoken about you know this podcast is about empathy not opinion what did you find here that gave you an idea as to why things were a struggle so I prefer to look at it the other way in terms of when I arrive what did I find that was positive because generally that's what I did yeah did you so you turn up and you yeah it made a conscious effort not to focus on the negative stuff yeah that's interesting though because with yourself you spent a year focusing on your on your negatives and your problems yet you turn up here and you think right let's let's focus on the positive that's why I say I sort of have two different views on it with other people and with my team I'll be very much positive first with myself I very much be the other way why I don't know but that's just how I'm built so when I arrived I wanted to focus on the positive the last thing I wanted to do is come here and go anything negative yeah so what did you find there so I found a really really hard-working group of players group of players that wanted to do really really well a group of players that wanted to be coached which surprised me um talented um Can it surprise you that they wanted to be coached well because I think coaching is um coaching is a it's a delicate one with obviously with experienced players and there was a lot of experienced players in the squad so a lot of players sort of mid-20s early 30s um and you almost go one of two ways with that it's be left alone and just play or yeah how can you make me better and I was so so pleased that it was the latter it was like how can you make me better what can you do for me in my career I'm sort of an open book and a lot of the players will like that and that that gave us a great start point to them bring our work bring our methods and try and improve the team and I saw a lot of talented players so for me and and some good lads you know players that wanted to do well there was no problems with discipline um nothing that we couldn't put right with a few Simple Rules and uh yeah away we went and then the team slowly improved did you do did you do one-on-ones with everyone or was it a group thing I did one-on-ones with everyone to start with I think that's really important because yes I knew three of the players but I didn't know anyone else so it was a case of get to know the players get to know the the family uh behind the player um I want to know I wanted to know everything about them um a little bit about their history as to how they've ended up here and then how I could help them and and where they saw their career because I think you sort of need to get to know a little bit of the history before you can then help them yeah refix their goals and is it true I do I heard this story about you so you can either confirm or deny it that one of the things that you did was find out some of the detail about Partners names birthdays things like that so you could just add to that Personal Touch of reminding them that it was your partner's birthday today happy birthday and was that part of that one-on-one period yeah it's something that you know I think you you can see the player train you can see the player match day but then behind it if you don't know two if you don't know anything about them then you're having a conversation with them you don't know whether they have children or not I don't think that's a conversation that's going to last long and I think the player will very quickly think you're not really interested in me yeah you're just talking to me because you you feel you need to so I really I didn't want those types of conversations I really want to know because if I'm going to invest my time and energy to try and make you better yeah um and really commit you know late at night thinking about training sessions for you I want to know more about the person I'm doing that for yeah so I think it's a vital part of the job and that that's how so close I want to get to my players really yeah and what does that do for you then because obviously your job's to win football matches right and it I think it's quite rare to hear someone talk about the fact that a player's career is the thing that you almost care about the most is it because if you think about their career you're thinking about them and if you're thinking about them then they're improving and if they're improving it's it's good for everyone yeah I think it's that step-by-step approach I think I yeah obviously I'm in charge of the team and I want the team to do really really well yeah but I think the best way for the team to do really work really well is for the individual to Excel and if I can try and improve those 25 players each individually and really invest in them then I think the the team and the club will never look back so yes it's a it's a sort of a step-by-step approach and it's how I've always been now whether that's because my playing career was frustratingly average um whether that's sort of formed me as a as a manager and as a coach I don't know um possibly because I you know I wanted to achieve great things in my playing career and I never quite got there through different reasons um so whether there's a bit in there that that for me I think possibly so some of you are playing career in fact I know your playing career was quite short for your injury but when you look back on that period do how would you have liked to have been coached by you well that's a good question would I have liked me I don't know I think I would have done I think I would have done I think I would have liked that Personal Touch I would like that one-to-one coaching because you think you've got 22 players running around on a football pitch it's very easy to just look at the team and forget the individual within the team but everyone's at different stages of their career everyone is different things so I think I'd have loved the care and attention um and then the self-improvement to uh to follow that up well on those early one-to-one sessions what was the the most valuable question that you asked the players the one that taught you the most about what you were about to step into I don't think there was anything from a football level I think it was more their background so whether it's brothers sisters children mum or dad I think they're the conversations that you you learn the most about the person and their motivations and why they're here there's always you know a story whether it's the I had three brothers and we're in the garden all day and that's how I became a footballer and I was the youngest uh or I was a lonely child you know whatever their story is I think it's fascinating to hear it and I'm sort of now asking that question then thinking of my own kids and because when you become a father I think that's a massive that was a massive change for me in my life and I think I've loved to think I've become a better manager since becoming a dad as well and you will have players here with challenging upbringings challenging backgrounds you know we talk often that someone that's not your fault is still your responsibility there'll be a lot of players here that carry baggage that isn't their fault but actually it's there and your responsibility to to help them with that so do you manage the players differently depending on what you learn about their background definitely I think you have to I can't treat all 25 players the same yeah because as you said they've all had different backgrounds they come from different countries the the experiences in life and in sport are so different and the personalities are different that's obvious so then you have to treat one person differently to the next to get the best out of them but also to for them to feel safe in the environment that you're trying to create and I think having that understanding as I said to have being a dad myself is then helped me so much with that because I think without that experience I think their job becomes much more of a challenge you have the empathy and the understanding of what it's like to be a dad what it's like to be a son um and that can only help you I think in your dealing with the players and do you get the players to share their stories with each other as well and the reason uh that I'm asking this is when we interviewed Sia khalisi the South African rugby Captain he said that those exercises of sharing their own stories with each other were like a catalyst to build deeper relationships stronger bonds that he felt was the springboard for them to go on and win the World Cup yeah we do so as part of our fine system we have a sort of a weekly meeting or once once every two weeks now um where one player from the squad will then tell a story um now one of the first things I did was tell mine to the to the group so first coming I thought well if I'm going to set this as part of what we do I've got a lead from the front and do it myself and I actually found it uh quite emotional to do that so you go back and you you tell things that you think are relevant and what people need to know about you and that's a brilliant stories some brilliant um uh Talks by the players and you find out so much stuff that from a conversation between me and you now I could never you could never tell me stuff but then in that format it's almost the players want to tell their story and they're telling things that are very personal to them but I do believe it brings you closer together and also it gives you an understanding if someone's having a bad day there might be a reason why he's having a bad day and uh to you know to ask the right questions and what's the atmosphere like in the room when that's happening yeah you could hear a pin drop it's it's everyone's a very respectful and understanding that it's going to be their turn at some stage so give the person all the support that they can and now we've had some really good ones because a lot because I often wonder you know when you look from the outside in where you see football teams do like um initiation ceremonies and somebody's got to stand up and sing a song and the rest of the squad Trail red roles at them and things like that I often wonder like how useful they are because I'm not sure what the effects of it is but I can certainly see the effects of somebody standing up and sharing something deeply personal and being heard and recognized rather than that made fun of or something like that where do you stand on that kind of initiation ceremony versus what you're doing yeah I mean I think depends what you're looking for I think the initiation ceremonies have a place if you want to have a laugh and you want to get the lads together laughing joking at each other and not taking themselves too seriously I can sort of see the merits in that yeah as long as you know what it is um but this one is I think a lot of respect if you're willing to talk about something that's personal to you then you have to give that person a lot of respect and then you have to give them that you know the vehicle to then Express themselves with no judgments and um no it's it's worked really well but yeah I wouldn't say I'm massively for the initiation ceremony unless it's you know we've done it during pre-season to get a new group bonded together yeah and try and create some laughter because laughter is ultimately so so powerful so you've got another challenge now which is new players coming into the group what what is your message to the new players that Newcastle sign how do you let them know very quickly the expectations of you and of this football club what's your go-to yeah that's a good question my go-to would be you know we've got several presentations on how we train why we train as we do um I always do a presentation very early on why we've signed the player as well so we've signed you because we love this about you we love we love the fact all positive stuff yeah those are all positive stuff yeah the the development stuff that can wait till after but I think the first impression is we have signed you because we love you as a player and this is why again it goes back to the strengths thing I think you have to people have to know why you're bringing them to the football club and then you set your expectations with a series of small little meetings about what we do and why we do it so when I think of someone like Kevin trippier that you that you signed it appeared again from the outside that you were recruiting not only for his talent as a footballer but for his characteristics as a person and more importantly as a leader in that dressing room of coming in with high standards you've experienced winning the La Liga for example how much do you actually give them that explicit brief of leadership versus just allow it to happen organically yeah well I think at the time when we signed Kieran in in January we were trying to sign leaders right so relegation about all very very difficult situation we were in we felt we couldn't sign players for the future it was further here and now and it was try and generate a team spirit in the group that will be so strong that that will carry us over the line so Kieran you know had worked with them at Burnley I knew um about him and his background and the fact he'd gone on to have a brilliant career is down to his leadership and his attitude so him Dan burn um Chris Wood all experienced players um but had that leadership quality in them and I've got to say they did a brilliant job in the dressing room and just in terms of it was already good but the feeling but just gluing it together and making it stronger but when we interviewed Phil Neville for example he said when he went from Manchester United to Everton that he was happy just to go into the dressing room and establish his credentials like bit by bit over time and yet he said he found when David Moyes gave him the captaincy that put him under a lot of pressure the dynamic in the dressing room shifted so how explicit were you with the rest of the group that these guys are going to come in and set the standards versus I must just let them get on with it yeah no I don't I don't think that's a dangerous thing to do is to always build them up yeah so they're going to come in and do that I think no I think just let them do let them lead because it really there's loads of different ways to lead but the most powerful one I think in a football sense is leading by example on the training pitch right um and those guys did that immediately their standards were very high now then if you can be vocal with that and demanding with that in time because I don't think you're going to do that from day one but vocal and demanding with that as you get comfortable in the group then you know that's that's like gold dust for the for the team and despite the period of self-reflection for a year and then choosing a job that felt right and selling yourself and then meeting the players and doing all the the right things was there a moment before the end of the season where you had the fear that relegation was going to come to this football club and you were going to be part of that yeah I think it was always there yeah you know that there was no escaping especially when we first went in we had some you know the results didn't come immediately so it was did that surprise you um no it didn't surprise me because I knew how difficult the Premier League is and nothing surprises me and the with how hard this league is so and things can happen like against Norwich we had a man sent off very early in the game as you'll know against Norwich and we ended up drawing the game and I was really proud of the effort but that was a game that was sort of built up internally and externally is that we had to win to stay up so we had some early Knocks um but then just momentum and the win against Leeds was absolutely key for us we then had a two-week break and then the yeah just you could feel the group believed let's talk about a couple of bits there then the first one is the Norwich draw when the whole world said if Newcastle don't win this that's then done what did you say to the players after that I was really really pleased really we know we played with 10 men for a long long time in the game I think we took the lead and Norwich equalized quite late on but the F that the players left on that pitch but did you address the the fear they would have then had like everyone said we had to win this and we didn't no because I think uh for me as long as I see a team give everything on the pitch the result you can never guarantee but what you need to do is get the I always say to the to the lads here that if the supporters clap you off that that's that's good enough because if they're clapping you off they've seen you've given everything the supporters here won't take or tolerate anything less so if they're clapping against Norwich to a man that the supporter stood up and went now I've seen the players give everything and I knew if we could consistently do that would be fine now don't get me wrong there comes a time you need the results to match that but I I felt really really pleased after that although we obviously didn't get the points we needed and then after International break when you felt uh you felt a momentum shift Yeah well yeah we won the game going into the international break and then we we took the lads away and it was just a really good feeling that you think now we can do this even though we were still a long way behind um you could sometimes you can sense how a team is gelling together and and how the the players are interacting with each other and I yeah I just felt we were in a good place and how did you then keep the keep that going without bursting the bubble either at training or before or after games what did you do in that in that period where you felt like okay this is this is actually happening well I think we had we had we set goals so we had a clear structure of these are the points we need from these games now we were down as I say early on we were down on points so you've got to try and you don't want to fall too far off it because it can become a negative but thankfully we were we were a bit down but we were not too far away so I could keep that very strong and say right now okay we're just going to add the points that we need onto the next group of games um and there was enough leeway for it not to be a negative as I say which they can be if it's too if it's unrealistic and I think we ended up finishing the season way above our points and Target so I definitely think that helped it just helped keep the lads on track after a bad result and I'd like to talk about you know your personal experience then of being the Newcastle manager you know we're here at the stadium it's massive the city as you've already said everywhere you uh everywhere you are in the city you see this Stadium how does that sit with any imposter syndrome that you have floating around I don't know the first day you walk out it's in James's Park and everyone here's anyhow the Savior Gonna Keep Us up well actually the first day I didn't because I got covered oh yeah yes so when did you realize that you when did you test positive and realize that you couldn't be here for the for the first game the day before on the Friday yeah so any other time and you know would have been fine but just that day meant that that obviously I had to miss out so I was in the hotel hearing a delayed noise from the crowd where there was a girl we drew three also there's a load of gold uh that was a that was a tough experience um no but you know I I haven't really felt that imposter syndrome um and I don't mean that in an arrogant way I just I felt very comfortable here I felt um welcomed by everybody Welcome by the staff welcome by the supporters welcome by the players and I've really really enjoyed what is a very difficult job a high pressure job but I've enjoyed that to this point and I'm very thankful for for everyone for that how how do you square away that a Bournemouth you know you had earned a lot of credit in the bank at that Football Club whereas here you're at one of the richest clubs in the world you know I think we'd all agree the reality is six bad results and maybe less and the question marks come and maybe even the job goes how do you not let that overwhelm you yeah good question I think by not over analyzing and thinking too deeply um because I don't think that's healthy and I've again I think I've learned that through the years to to focus on what you can control so I can control the training I can control the players to a degree um I could control all the things around the team performance in the in the way that I can you know if I focus on that and make sure that's as good as it can be while doing loads of other obviously different things motivation and um treating people in the right way yeah that's all you can do but the minute you start thinking what if negative things happen your your project fear and projecting theater players is a very dangerous thing you they've got to enter that pitch believing in everything you've delivered so link to that then talking about the kind of narrative of coming here to Newcastle that inevitably since the it was taken over by the by the Saudi fund you've had questions come your way about the brand washing and Saudi ownership of football clubs that are coming direct to you as the figurehead of the club how do you deal with that well I just have to speak you know my truth and and from my perspective so I came here for the football club to to coach the team to manage the team to coach the players give the best of my ability from a footballing perspective and yes there's some difficult questions to answer but everything I've done is um is based around football how important is it for you to educate yourself about those matters off the pitch yeah massive it was a huge thing and I said that very early in my tenure here that that was a big part of what I needed to do now I'm still I don't think that ever ends I think you're always educating yourself on certain things that are arising around the world um but I'm very very proud to to manage this football club and I hope to do so for for a long time it's never a pressure-free job um one thing that struck me and I wasn't offended by this by the way but when we spoke on the phone you would listen to the podcast religiously when I saw you at Norwich and I went well what's your latest episode of high performance you went well stop listening now now I don't mind right I'm seriously pissed off no but the point I'm trying to make I suppose is that you were in a really like you were in a growth space right in that year out is there a way that you can be in a growth space but also in a pressure space here or are you too committed and too all in and I suppose really what I'm trying to say is are you able to do this job and enjoy doing this job I I in a weird way I do enjoy it but it's not in a you don't necessarily feel that enjoyment every minute it's sort of sometimes reflective enjoyment comes uh two weeks after some things happened I really enjoyed that two weeks ago but at the time you sort of you don't necessarily feel that um the reason I haven't listened to the podcast is not because I don't love it anymore and I do and there is definite learning to take from the various guests I hope someone finds something interesting from this um but it's you just have to prioritize what you're doing so I'm prioritizing loads of different things and then you you find your time in the day has just gone and then you're you're doing that obviously every day and you just you have to prioritize so uh I apologize for that but I'm interested I'm interested in what you said about that 12-year period at Bournemouth where you almost didn't get a chance to develop yourself because it was so fanatic how how are you going to give yourself some space and time to still develop yourself while while going back into The Fray of management when I said I didn't develop myself that was yeah not entirely accurate I I'd probably would say I did more for my development probably than most managers are able to do but just because I sort of push myself every sort of break right I'd be Here There and Everywhere trying to seek more growth and learning um but it's obviously more difficult in work and I'd say it's more difficult the higher profile Club you're at because more doors are shut on you than if you're in lower leagues so uh that's something I just have to deal with and um yeah somehow keep keep on top of things but I do feel I've learned from a new staff like in coming into a new staff Graham Jones is uh coming to my staff now and I've loved working with him and having that new idea and that new brain has been really beneficial for me as of the other staff that I've inherited can I ask you a question like personally about good I didn't get a chance to ask when we were talking about taking on this job when do you start the conversations with your wife and your children that so you're in the interview process but when do you start to almost sold the seeds with them that we might be leaving our base here and going somewhere else but like how does that process happen yeah that's a again another good question I mean quite Loosely because there's no guarantee of anything so you might say oh I'm just having a chat with this club and there's sort of an understanding that that's happening um that with no guarantees or promises and literally then click of the fingers right I'm off it's literally like that because there's no other you know I'm going and uh obviously we have discussion that I want to get back in and we might have to move and you obviously come to a shared agreement sure that you we you know I'd be supported in that but the actual moment that it comes is very quick and sudden and then suddenly on the other side of the country and making plans then for then to join me and once your family are up here with you now how is how hard do you find the switching on and off when you're at work or at home I think I've got better at it but yeah it's difficult um I think I love to be there for my for my boys I love to be present when they're when they need you uh usually in the garden with a football uh which means you can never escape the game but that you know you were never any other way but yeah I tried to be there and I try to be there with my wife and I think I've got better at that I'd love to think I've got better at that as I've got a holder yeah but it's still a challenge for me because I am ultimately very committed to my work was it and in a job like this I can imagine that the ability to delegate is even more demanding or more even more important than it would have been at Bournemouth where maybe you had a grasp on more aspects what have you learned about the art delegation that listeners could take on well yeah I'd say the art delegation is massive and I'd say historically for me that's been a big weakness um definitely my early days it was it was just me and Jason to be honest Jason Tyndall um and we did everything and sort of once you get accustomed to that that's the normal way of working so it's two people doing everything um you've got to remember we had nothing you know the the resources we had at Bournemouth in early days formed us but we had nothing so we were taking on all sorts of different things scouting you know whatever there is sports science we were doing a lot so that's been really good for us but then then the job changes you get more staff and you get end up at a much bigger um bigger resources but you're still acting like there's just two of you so that's been a weakness of mine because of that that process really so it's something that I'm learning to do better as I get older again I think um something I need to do even more of I need to give more trust and accountability to other people but I've sort of become yeah very Hands-On and I'm reluctant to lose that Hands-On approach there's certain things that I can't hide from here so media duties and all the other things you have to do which means then you you know your time's pulled so you need to give what part of the job sits at least comfortably with you I think anything that's not um with my players is is not viewed as a negative by me but for me the the main attraction to the job is the grass the balls the coaching the players the Improvement the analyzing preparing and then doing you know that whole process I love anything around that is almost a bit of a distraction from that so it's making sure those distractions don't take you away from what I believe is that at the core of successfully and what is the part of your job that is misunderstood the most to the element of management that we just should know and you'd love to share yeah probably the effect that you can have I think I think it can be underestimated the effect you can have on the team on the individual players I think and that's why I'm so passionate about trying to have interaction with my players on a daily basis I don't like going through a day where I don't really feel I've spoke to them or impacted them whether that be on the training picture off the training pitch because I think you have to be viewed as the players probably wouldn't like this but as a mentor a father figure or whatever whatever people want to bracket I think you've got to be important in their lives for them to play their best football I don't like being a distant unrelatable not contactable don't speak to him type figure that's that's not how how I would manage or how I really think the job should be done I think it's a collaboration rather than a dictatorial type process so in the books tokenomics I think it was a guy called Stefan samanski and Simon Cooper estimated that a head coach impacts between 10 and 20 of the team's performance and then the rest of it is all other uh extraneous stuff what percentage do you think you can affect the team's performance that is a tough one Damian but I'm going to say a little bit more than that just because you've given me a number so I'll go 30. uh I really don't know but um I do believe I do believe and it's not just me by the way I'm not just saying I'm the only one that can affect I'm saying my coaching team sports science team physio team everyone connected with the club can have an impact on the players commitment you know people that are there having contact with the players I think can help shape a mindset and a mood and a Feeling that can that can linger beyond the day so I think we have to be very mindful of that when we're when we're dealing with the players and who coaches you that's a good question I think obviously my main pillar of support is my wife um she's the one that on a bad result or a bad day will text me well be there for me there's very few other people that are sort of there you know when it's when it's really bad you know when you've had a really bad day and I think you sort of know that again as you get older you you you sort of know the people that are there for you truly and the people that aren't and I think they're they're incredibly important I'm always interested in this what's the kind of hidden cost of of your job I think it's the missed things that the days you miss the moments you miss that you don't get back so I miss both of my kids birthdays this year I'll say both because my younger one had his in March and I was so therefore that I think I might have missed all of them I think I've missed all year and I've missed all three this year so they're opening presents in New York you've got a camera there and you're looking at oh that's really nice but you you've got other things yeah you've got training to prepare that day so you never get that moment back in the sports days I don't think I've seen a sports day that I think I've seen loads of other parents evenings are very rarely there so that's why the timeout was really good for me because I was in all those things that I'd never been I was able to experience that with my kids and I have to say they're very very good with me they never sort of accuse me of but you weren't here or they I think they have an understanding that well they're proud of their dad managing Newcastle now and they sort of accept there's a little bit that they miss because of that but they've been very good with me is there a question we should have asked you and that we haven't no I'm barely remembering what you're asking me yeah like well you haven't so now I think you've been very good and what about on your notes and those notes that you made in your year out is there anything else you'd really like to share with you so I think there was there was one thing and it was uh it was more of a mindset from me really uh put down here to be grateful so what I I remember reading the book Magic uh by Rona Byrne I think it is and similar lines to the secret and uh I thought it was a brilliant book and it just at that moment this was about I think three months after I left Bournemouth it was to be thankful for what I'd achieved there and thankful for the journey that we went on rather than looking at it just purely for the last part to be thankful for everything that happened beforehand and just to be thankful for everything in my life I consider myself very lucky very fortunate and um yeah I'm very grateful and have you been able to adopt that here where you lose a game the pressure is huge I mean the fan base here is incredible are you able to deal with those negative moments with that new mindset or is it all sound well and good when you're out of work when you're back in work you're not quite so kind to yourself yeah I think there's of course you go back and you you sort of have this Vision right that's and then it's you you go with the emotion and the feeling of the day and but I do think even doing things like this with you today has helped bring me back to where I was are you kind enough to yourself uh probably not though but it's got me to to this point uh so something in that attitude that I have or I'm constantly demanding myself to improve I'm constantly on myself not to be lazy and you know I'm I'm sort of the opposite of lazy I'm always doing and but I like that about myself so I I probably wouldn't change but it's just I think it's just tweaking to try and enjoy things moments more would be the challenge I have oh how often do you slip you know you're demanding on yourself you know you want to achieve a lot in a day but no one's Flawless yeah I'd say uh it's more for my players so is it the the thing will be in the morning when you're planning the day it'll be like I'm not happy with this players aren't getting enough development they're not getting enough from me or from you or from you we need to give them more uh do I slip from I don't really I don't feel I slipped from that mindset um of course you'll have then what you'll deliver sometimes would be better than other days yeah that was wasn't a great day today we need to analyze what what went wrong there well that was a really good day today well done so it's always for the players we're going to run through our quick fire questions um and this is an interesting one with the players you've recruited with the staff that are working here with you know the people who are no longer on the on the journey with you the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you have to buy into quite basic if I can remember them if I can't I'll have to go to my notes uh and I have uh bear in mind I've presented this to my players so I'll to back your podcast this is one of my first meetings I had with them I I recommended they listen to it so I sat them down and said high performance podcasts both your faces at the front and I said listen to this podcast it's amazing um and I said they've got this section on their three non-negotiable non-negotiable behaviors and these are my three so you understand me more always give your best very basic [Music] um I can't remember the second one get them up I knew that would happen um oh yeah be willing to learn and improve and put the interests of the team before your own personal interests but did you ever ask for this well Jacob Murphy who listens to your podcast as well um he gave me his don't ask me to remember them but yes a couple of them came back nice what advice would you give to a teenage Eddie just started out well I'm going to contradict myself with my answer here so I would say back off yourself a little bit and enjoy it a bit more go easy on yourself but as we said earlier that's enabled me to get to this position which when you consider where I was at 16 I would never have believed it possible what I've done in my life so I'm not sure if that's the right advice but almost along the way just just try and take it in and enjoy it a bit more what do you think you could have got to the same place if you'd have been a little bit Kinder no right I I honestly don't know about to push and work and sacrifice to get here and I don't think I could have done it another way I you know I totally resonate with that because I spend my life watching people achieve great things thinking I hope you enjoy the moment you know make the most of it but I totally think I don't know what you think from the people you've met and the researchers out there like if you spend your time really enjoying those moments I do think it takes away from you're not the kind of person that's driven to get to the next one you know it's like one or the other everything everything has a like a a balance right there's a payoff for everything yeah no I think I think it's ended I don't think there's a right or wrong answer it is it I think that's the point I don't think there's loads of high Achievers going around you're going to not I'm just enjoying every minute of every day by accident yeah I don't think it's high performance isn't an accident I think you can explain it but I don't think there's one set route to get there right but there is like an algorithm I think to success you know where you've you've realized the level of dedication the level of detail we call them world-class Basics you know like the not hard difficult thing to achieve easy things that everyone can do every day that takes everyone closer you know yeah but I think like if you think about like if you take two people that got to the same destination Johnny Wilkinson and Dan Carter in the interview Johnny spoke about sacrifice and struggle to get to become the world's best football player Dan Carter as well got the joy of just being with his mates and throwing the ball around and loving rugby and having the gratitude that how did this crap so they both got to the same yeah but Dan Carter breaks his day down into 10 second blocks and sure sets himself shines for everything like you know like that's also an exhausting way to live your life by the way I think you know yeah and but that's nothing there's one don't think there's one yeah definitive answer we're looking for I'm definitely more on the Johnny side of things yeah whereas if I think if I'd had the other Outlook I would have been well short of what I needed to be yeah really what's your biggest strength and what's your greatest weakness I think my biggest strength is my work ethic um my biggest weakness is do you think there's a chance you're too hard on yourself yeah well yeah possibly that possibly yeah but as I say from that hardness drives a then a plan to try and improve what I consider the weakness which is an automation so since you've got this job then have you laid your head on the pillow at the end of the night and thought that day was perfect yeah no no day's perfect but I think you lay your head on the pillow going I've given my all today I can't I couldn't have given any more and I I do sleep and I always have I've slept very well even in some difficult moments we again tomorrow's going to be tough but I sleep well because I sort of go to bed knowing there's nothing more I can give if you could go back to One Moment in your life what would it be and why yeah I thought about this earlier because I knew this one was coming and uh I'm gonna give two answers I'm gonna go back to before I was injured so playing for Portsmouth I lasted two games and it was a big injury and it ruined my career I was never the same player after so I wouldn't mind doing something different before that moment and giving myself a chance to have a different playing career but then this wouldn't have happened afterwards so I've got to be careful what I wish for there the second one would be um definitely a chance to speak to my mum before she passed away and to just tell her how grateful Allah was for everything she did for me that's nice just gonna pick you up on the the point about um the injury yeah it's a really good lesson I think this for lots of people to hear that you know sometimes the things that are the hardest in your life actually can lead to the the greatest moments in your life but I'm right in saying that the energy that you have every single day now probably comes from the pain of your career being cultural yeah possibly yeah I mean I definitely think I wouldn't have ended up navigating my way like I did through the early part of my management career and I think that was fundamental to forming the manager I am now you know the fact that I was thrust into it at 31. and the situation that we faced there's so many good lessons there for me you know in terms of making the best out of no resources um galvanizing the players in a sort of a journey them against us type attitude it was brilliant brilliant learning for me which I didn't really know at the time but that came from having your career shut cut short and having nowhere else to turn other than form a new career based on the support you love so really looking back yeah the the injury was I think a fortunate thing for me in the end and talking about your mum when you reflect on all the things that she did for you over the years what what did she get right in terms of parenting that's institution great question I think she just enabled me to express myself with no no boundary no fear if you want to be a footballer that's your dream go for it if you want to be something else go for it I'll back you whatever you want to do those types of messages [Music] um which I didn't know at the time you sort of want someone I felt I wanted someone to go I do this they go okay but the the actual freedom to choose was everything and then once once you have that and you have a child that's just full of positive memories and laughter and playing I think you you've got a good chance then to have a good life and you didn't get a chance to say thanks for all that no well I don't feel I did I you know my mum would know how I feel about her but you know there's so many things when someone's gone that you you think I just wish I had you know I was managing Burnley at the time and even when she was ill I was traveling up and back and not really I don't think at that stage fully understanding the situation that should have been by our bedside but I think she knew I had a job to do and I think she would Embrace that want me to do it but still part of you then feels if it was not you know not right for not uh not behaving differently and obviously you know that that can't be changed but there are still people in your life who you must always remember to get that bit right with you don't want any more of those regrets well I think that's why life is an amazing way of teaching you um things you should and shouldn't have done and I think when you've experienced that for the first time um it certainly teaches you a valuable lesson and the final question your last message really for people that have listened to this enlightening conversation about life in management you're one Golden Rule for a high performance life oh do you know I've forgotten about the Golden Rule I think that the um the golden rule for me would be to to learn and to learn by like I have I feel learn from mistakes learn from failures and embrace those failures which sometimes can be very difficult to do but embrace them for for positives because they ultimately form and shape you and change you in a positive way but I think how you react to those moments so like for me when I finish my playing career could be very easy to go for a different way and relegation of Bournemouth can be raised to have a different sort of outcome from those things but you have to put them to bed and then you have to grow from them ultimately to I think come again brilliant no problem thank you ready [Music]

Channel: High Performance

Views: 1,372,114

Keywords: Football, Podcast, The High Performance Podcast, Jake Humphrey, Damian Hughes, Liquid thinker, Newcastle, Eddie Howe, Eddie How, Eddy Howe, High Performance, Performance Podcast, Newcastle United, Premier Leauge, Newcastle United Football Club, NUFC, Newcastle United Manager, Football Manager, St. James' Park, Darsley Park, The Magpies, Bournemouth, A.F.C Bournemouth, Ex Bournemouth Manager, Football Managers 2022, Football managers 2023, Top Football Managers, Boss Eddie Howe

Id: iWbHrENsFnA

Length: 90min 55sec (5455 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 07 2022