Drop Dead Interview with Bishop Carlton Pearson

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] this is Mike Williams the author of drop dead dying to the fleshly nature and I am talking with bishop Carleton Pearson the author of confusion because he is sure confused and great many of you but I want to take you back to an earlier time I don't see exactly and where everybody is prayed you return 1990 I was in Fort Worth in the Air Force I was at a friend's house and I tuned in TBN at their house had not been in church very long not been going to church very long but I loved Carmen and I had I wore out the tape revival in the land and my favorite song was I got the joy and when I tuned in TVN the very end of the video was just it was just ending the music video and it dissolved from that song - this really gaudy white and gold set which at a very charismatic attractive smiling black man saying that is Carmen's I got the joy this is the world premiere the music video and I sing on that song with Carmen and I yelled at the TV as though that man could hear me and I said no you don't Carleton Pearson does and then it hit me that's Carlton Pearson so I'd been listening to the tape but I had never seen you and right after that show ended your TV show came on everything's gonna be alright first time I'd ever seen first time I'd ever seen and you preached a message called why and when Jesus withdrawals part three but you said something in that your subject was unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies it remains only a single seed but if it dies it produces many seeds and he's telling you told the congregation turn to your neighbor and tell them drop dead say it said again said one more time because somebody sitting around your aside you in front of your got behind you said one more time you've been wanting to say it all along now you have a script or reason I'm backing does they drop dead drop dead and that just exploded in me and I started researching that that that text and that scripture and other things about dying to the fleshly nature and talk more about what that that that message was and well as a Holy Ghost feel Christian the disciplines of holiness are premiere in your mind there's a constant both cosmic conflict between God and the devil or a devil and then humans and their humanity the the Spirit of God in the human being deadening the fleshly attributes or helping the Christian manage their humaneness and still be holy and so the first 40 years of my life I was a single Christian serving God I wrote a book titled every single one of you dealing with the single life and Paul said I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others i myself will not be a castaway he said I was always disciplining his body his flesh his humaneness based on the Jewish moral code from its Pharisee background so we were very conscious of that discipline in that duty and I was trying to teach our people as I often did how to manage their flesh if we couldn't subdue it we could at least control it but through the Holy Ghost and the dying process Paul said I die daily and that would be part of the scenario that you daily have to deal with issues even if you die to it yesterday you resurrect and come back and you got to deal with it so he said I die daily and I was teaching my people that the daily disciplines of holy living it was a big always a big theme of my life in those days one of the things I say in the book about Paul saying that I die daily is the reason that it died daily is because Paul was living daily yeah so I died with Christ nevertheless I live and most of the time our issues are our living part yeah and not the part that has done it and I remember something that you preached years ago about living sacrifices and the problem with living sacrifices is when the fire gets turned up you want to jump out of there living sacrifices crawl off the altar yeah if you're dead you all know it but when you're alive and we are we stay that way in the day the daily dying we emphasize but we don't emphasize the daily living and in in the process of live living in just the normal physical life you've heard me say that from the day you take your first breath inhalation and exhalation you start dying so when you say to somebody how are you doing you're basically saying are you dying I'm so good depends on the circumstances of life whether you're dying good or dying well so we are always dying and that fits in with the concepts of I die daily I'm dying daily but we're also living and Jesus said I'm coming that you might have life that you might have it more abundantly or bounding Li so bounding living an abundant living and also means abounding dying and abundant dying to the flesh or to the part of your nature that would grieve the Holy Spirit or be in opposition or adversarial to the Spirit of God that scripture that that initial scripture that initial message which it's just profound to me that that happened to be the very first time I ever heard you preach and just began a journey of study that has gone on for 28 years now and has now led to this book and there's just so much of it one of the things we talk about is we compare things to the Walking Dead which is you know very popular television program yeah well I got a program that that is getting a message out to the culture whether the word is there what are their motives that's an interesting thing to talk about too and the thing about the zombies and the Walking Dead they they will eat you but they're not evil people they cannot help it that is their diet their only diet is flesh yeah and it seems to be the primary diet of most Christians yeah is they feed on fleshly fleshly things fleshly epitaphs fleshly appetites and the amazing thing in in The Walking Dead is that you find out that it's not so much the zombies that are the real danger or the real evil it's what human beings do to other human beings while they're trying to survive this zombie apocalypse and I've just you know have seen so much of that even in the church even since your trends just transition it's amazing to see even what Christians will do to other Christians how they will treat other Christians it's it's amazing that a lot of Christians don't wrestle with with fornicating or adulterous or lustful propensity the way they do with devouring other humans other members of the church Paul said there is therefore now no condemnation to them who walk in the spirit not after the flesh but in the spirit later on he says but we died to send that as a sin capacities improbably how can we live any longer in that consciousness of sin the day the dying thing and it's a lot easier to die it's a normal death than it is to be born birth thing is messy and loud and primordial fluids and and sloppy dying you just lay down and die but we may win over dramatized death because we think it's cataclysmic or that it's a some tragic cessation of life it's not that big a deal you just die yeah you didn't they didn't say I'm killed in the flesh I die daily and then I'm killed daily but I die that's a natural process and so is birthing but birthing is just a lot of more dramatic we should de-emphasize the drama of dying makes it easier and realized that dying is natural and you should let it happen everyday rather than resisting it same it would be with the board the the birthing process but he didn't say I'm born every day he just said I'd die so dropping dead and it's a natural process except the kernel of we accept it dropped and died it remains a single unproductive seed but when it dies it multiplies it becomes many seeds and successions and successes so that's the concept of the beauty of the death process and since I mean Christians came after me and and they there was like they had this voracious appetite to chew me up swallow it either regurgitate or defecate ly you know it's it was a it was a weird thing I didn't expect from people who love you but and I've never seen any particular group do that so viciously or violently then then Christians if they would employ that same violent attack on their own they would be chewing on the Saints as they chew on each other yeah almost it's almost cannibalism yeah going back to what you were just talking about I think dying is easy it's living that's hard yeah and it's the living that gets us into trouble hmm when when Lazarus died and was in in the grave four days before Jesus called a mountain so when he said Lazarus come forth Christians would say oh we don't believe in that inner church right but Lazarus was dead so Lazarus was obedient yeah even in death in even it especially in death yeah dead people don't argue yet people don't resist dead people just given if even if Lazarus was in a better place because Jesus actually said when he's just sleeping if he was resting and sleeping he and awakened from his sleep or his slumber or his relaxation it could have been you he had to obey the voice of Jesus then come back out to his worse and sisters whom he loved and to the worse in life he live and we don't know how much longer he lived after that before he died so that that's a very I've always wonder what did he do did he start a healing ministry did he start like come to me and I'll help raise you your debts that go to the cemetery and build the church or something cuz he'd already experienced it you know everything else about him nothing how did his resurrection be so exciting to him that he didn't start the end of the world resurrection ministry of evangelists so even though you know you're pretty pretty far removed from where you were in those days I think there's still a very profound truth in that because I do think that it is largely our flesh that gets us into trouble that brings down politicians it brings down preachers it breaks up marriages breaks up families people lose their jobs so I think there's still a real real truth in that that that we can't get away from that applies to to everybody we call it our flesh in our religious circles but it's really the ego that all humans wrestle with you need a man or a woman with no eagle and you haven't met anybody you meet somebody with too much and you've got a monster on your hand Eagle has its place it's like the egg as the center is the yolk of who we are it's the it's the eye in the am ambition and ambition are similar but one is more focused on the ego and rather than a focus outside the aim toward something good or godly there's a discipline that goes along with holiness it takes time to be holy it takes time to think holy the process of being or thinking holy includes dying to the ego or to the flesh or to certain appetites that are unhealthy you meet a person with no appetite and they're not healthy it's really a sign that you're sick and that you're dying anyway no you need a person with a with an overly voracious appetite they're given to obesity and excess and greed so the balance between your humanity and your divinity is where the holy spirit comes in and helps it gives you the managing skills to to die with elegance to die with eloquence to die with refinement and and to do it daily without looking dead and smelling did you know and becoming a zombie that's half dead so zombies are drugged that's what makes some zombies there they take a certain amount of the of the drug and it it reduces them and induces in them this sluggish slumber E slow almost catatonic state of mind there's a numbness there where you don't feel the pain or the passion or the pathos to do things that you wouldn't do and it's a delicate balance and that's where why people fail so much they don't want the discipline of restraining we trying to kill the flesh and you don't really want to kill it you want to manage it yeah yeah so dying daily is not really that you kill yourself every day you just still got steel st STI ll steel yourself mmm and balance it out and look around and pay attention because the way we're taught it's so extreme that you like somebody on a diet you know you gonna stop being hungry God gave you it as I wear a diet for a hunger for food 100 for sex 100 for love hundred for the desire to be recognized and embraced and honored and respected those are normal things but we panic and we get gutless about or too greedy you want more than your share of attention mmm of love or affirmation it seems you know I feel like the way things are taught in almost thing like God gave us all of these things all of these things to enjoy there that we enjoy to not enjoy because if you enjoy them than your sin or to the joy and not be annoyed by them the things that we enjoy we think our flesh and it annoys our spirit so the the the anointment makes us paranoid we're so afraid of offending God God I don't really here's some more of my confusions that you brought it up I'm not personally confused by them I might confuse some of your people I don't think God is affected in any way by our choices or decisions that God is too expensive and too large and too in charge to be concerned about you looking at some lady's body or some man's body are you looking at a piece of chocolate cake and just coveting it and or a nicer home that you live and then wanting it those are human things that's on a human level and we manage that in our own various ways now we who believe in the power of the Holy Ghost would would summons that Prop hour or use that power to to keep us balanced and what we eat and what we see to admire our home doesn't mean you desire to admire a woman doesn't mean you desire the one or to admire our man doesn't mean you desire the man but we get it mixed up and then we limp paranoid lives and it's not attractive to court unquote non-believers yeah so if we drop dead like the book says or like I was preaching you don't walk around like a zombie and nobody's interested in that corpse you know we're interested in the course of life and not the corpse of or the leftovers of somebody that's been killed they don't want to die they don't want they they want to eat what they want to drink what they want to see what they want to watch first they want and yet the scripture says the Lord is my shepherd and I shall not want just because the Lord is your Shepherd you don't want nothing you get you're praying for a new house a brand for a new spouse a brand for another one or a child or some clothes so that's the best to be broken down since the Lord is my shepherd and I shall not lack I shall not be denied I shall not be detained I shall not be contained I I want to be free and on stricted in my soul there's just four different ways of interpreting scripture and extreme interpreters or interpretations makes the extreme person the screaming person thinks they scream because there's because they're extra so when you calm it down and live a balanced way like Jesus except for the two times they got angry he was pretty cool but even he had to had to deal with literally taking up a whip and busting through the church he didn't do that just quote unquote sinners and hungry and poor he went in there to them pompous religious folks and whupped a team so what did you do so I wanted to say tables but it was an interesting why would they show that aspect of Jesus yeah his humaneness wishes he was so much God he you could barely know that he was man yet he was so much man it was hard to believe he was God all used to say yeah pretty power you know there's a lot of people that they haven't a clue what you're talking about but they sure do like the way you see it yeah I don't know what about mercy I know the Bible a lot of my my I had to die through a lot of the transition that I've gone through hmm and I you know you've heard me say that forgiveness is giving up the right to be right not the reason because I got pretty reason to be but I had to give up the reason that my right to the right or my right to be angry not my reason cuz they've got plenty so we all have four reasons to be angry or hurt you know but I keep giving up those right there because I don't claim that I have a right to being or having the right to hate and I have a right to be a retaliatory I understand the mindset of my people they raised like me we we all grew up in the same spiritual and Theological neighborhood and some of us in the same house so really the in the in the movie love story one of the powerful statements is says being in love mean means never having to say I'm sorry yeah it doesn't say never needing to say I'm sorry mmm-hmm when you don't understand you understand an apology is not really necessary because I understand the resistance to my new and different approach theologically because I understand the mentality of the people who consider inclusion heretical I don't need an apology from them you know I and I don't have to forgive them because I understand I fully get it why they they think what they think now it's okay if somebody does it but I'm not walking or they need to people need to forgive you I mean people need to repent because the way they treat they don't know I know my mom and dad and my siblings have done stuff my children do things I don't need them apologizing to me every day you know all says forgive your brother seventy times seven times a day that's 360 time ain't nobody gonna repent that many times so how am I gonna if I have to wait for somebody to apologize before I could forgive then I'm not gonna do that much forgiving cuz I'm not gonna get that many apologies and so why would we think God needs all these Apollo all these repentance is for him to forgive he would go he God would not ask us to do something that God's not gonna do yeah same with Jesus so don't let me get into defending my position in it and I really don't think God is is offended by the same things we're offended by I agree and I don't think in this book certainly does not deal with this at all they that God is punishing you for the things that you do I don't believe that for a second I think sin charges its own price sure Bible says the wages of sin is death true doesn't mean it's hell but it's death yeah if you smoke your entire life you won't go to hell for it but you might die sooner than you might go through there and painfully yeah if you're a promiscuous person you won't go to hell for it but you might wish you were dead by the time you get through everything sure I get all that so all these years later and with this book coming out do you see this as we've left that that's not necessary that's religious so or do you still see something valuable in in what's told ya I don't see it as religious anymore I don't see a lot of things as a religion anymore I do see things as relational and relationship for me to get along with me my consciousness and my culture and my character there are certain disciplines that are mandated like integrity honesty trustworthiness and trust so I don't believe as much in right or wrong good or evil as I do in actions thoughts and deeds or doings with consequences there's a sequence or seek well that which comes after if I eat too much salt to add sugar not enough of either don't get enough rest watch too much television miss things that I should probably see although there's a discipline to it so there is a sequence or sequel to everything you do I don't think it comes from above I think that they're natural laws of the universe that occur all the time they that the universe was created by a creator who understood that when you put a seed in the ground it's gonna reeled a harvest of whatever whatever seed you put in there rain comes sunlight those things are natural you don't invite or invent them they just come storm season's sessions in life I don't just go with the flow I grow with the flow so I still die to to stuff every day you can't be married and not die daily or get killed you can't be a parent without dying daily you can't be a child or with parents or sibling you can't go to work without pushing a way of pushing down or suppressing or room restraining certain aspects that that you from from the appetite to eat too much chocolate or too much lunch or too much or to have too much wine the Bible says be not filled with wine wherein is excess it didn't say don't be filled with wine but excessive drinking said Paul said to Timothy take a little wine for your stomach's sake and your oft infirmities you would think you listened oh oh I note yourself with oil because you said he's right Wow don't let me make you and so just like Jesus turned the water into wine we turn wine into water mmm it's cold so we're we're we're miracle workers too but that's a natural manner this is the natural law so we make so much of stuff so yeah every did the teachings that I had in mind that the concepts of discipling I could say drop dead I could say I could have used the term be disciplined I'll be a disciple of yourself I learned from me I'm following me mmm I am my own teacher but so are you so are my children I'm a student and a pupil of my children of my wife of my parents of my friends and my enemies so-called enemies I learned because that's why we came here to learn to love and to give that's part of living I think consequences gets a bad rap issue this it's always used in a negative sense but to simply have any an action with sequences you're following those could be good sequences as well so consequences don't have to be bad they can be good as also oh yeah and they're a consequence awareness of consequences or the sequences of life is wise no the scripture said that Jesus said my yoke is easy which basically means it comes in your size and all size one-size-fits-all and my burden which is my excise of my invoice what cone is light it's is it's minimal I have really discounted stuff for you Wow so you can so can afford to live when it when it becomes difficult then maybe it's not God the way we're talking is yeah I love the easiness and I've taken me all these years to kind of lay back and relax I'm not as hard on myself there is therefore now no condemnation to those who walk after Christ who live by the spirit not by the flesh they're not they're not governed by their their flesh but by their spirit there's a different distinction between flesh and spirit ego and essence yeah and I'm learning those disciplines I would have taught I would have made it a lot easier for people like you who followed my ministry for 28 years you've known me you were a new born Christian why you were attracted to that particular subject says something about you drop dead why would that appeal you know like unless you unless you just said drop dead you stupid you know maybe that was your cabin before you really got discipline in the Holy Ghost but for some reason that particular subject had appeal to you that's why I used it because I thought it would be more interesting so what was he talking about dropping I guess I want to tell my best friend that the other day I just told my name now he's using it as a scripture so that's that's I call that backdoor evangelism you're pilling two to the backside of people's consciousness and it makes them interesting but you were wanting to discipline your life you wanted to live a more disciplined more here you are in the Air Force or certain disciplines that in in military services of any type and so you already had developed a certain either antipathy for or attraction to discipline mmm and rules and regulations and you have more self-respect so you and I just wanted to be saved you wanted to respect Mikey you wanted to to be respected by others you wanted to find a community where respect rather than suspect what's dominate and of course we questioned it was the other way you should be innocent to approving guilty damn you guilty to prove it yeah that's the truth first time watching you there was something else that happened while watching that message that I don't think I don't think I've ever told you this but while watching that and again I knew of you only through Carmen's music music no you were as pastor was fascinated by you because you you sang so much better on his song than than he did , it just turned it if you're watching but while I was watching a look came over my face apparently and my friend said what's wrong and I said God just spoke to me and they didn't even question it they said What did he say and I said he said you're going to know him meaning me meaning you really and they said really and I said clear as day I mean clears about you're going to know him so every time you would come to Fort Worth or Dallas or anywhere in the area or if I would come to Azusa or come to your church as soon as the service was over I would turn around and walk out as people are lining up to shake your hand I turned around and walked out cuz you knew no it would frustrate my friends because they would say why didn't you go meet him and I said because God didn't say you won't meet him so God said you will know him Wow and I just figure if God said it God can work it out without my help you have that kind of faith who would surely in those days I said I think I had more than that I bet you and it years went by a couple of years at least and I came to a Zeus of 91 and you had just launched the Azusa fellowship and had a pastors and ministers luncheon and I went to the luncheon and when I went back home you know I've been in Azusa all week and Bishop their pastor Carlton at that time is there and so surely you know there was an opportunity to meet him then so first thing they asked me did you meet Carlton Pierson and I said well sort of and they said sorry what do you what do you mean and I said well we had a pastors and ministers luncheon and he came he came to my table and he went like this do you yeah you did that to me oh brother my thing felt like that was another missed opportunity I said I'm telling you he didn't say you're gonna meet him so if I just met him how many other people have met him that's a big deal and then Azusa 92 I was dancing I saw it and Vernon young came out and stood in the middle aisle blocking the middle aisle with me out past them in life mm-hmm and I thought oh they don't want me out here so I went back to my seat and Dino la sala tapped me on the shoulder a few minutes later and he said pastor wants you to take your liberty your blessing the people so I danced again oh you never told me this I know and then so we have it all on camera you dancing yeah I cried the first time I saw hey watch it you see look a little wet that my my little dancing brother he came out of there dancing that was God he was right you know white folks usually just kind of just just they just do anything [Applause] my brother and I used to watch the American Bandstand and then there weren't very many blacks but they were sung and the blacks always had some kind of step you know with the Watusi of the mashed potatoes of the James Brown of something it looked like white folks just doing anything [Applause] you know that's starting to change votes I see [Applause] [Music] [Applause] we try to hold a little white man then he'll I'll preach all of us now we got these little charismatic blacks and that's all they know [Music] [Applause] and the dog little white boys they tell me [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] he even got fooled Jack Hayford had had just preached Tim story so he cannot suddenly this is what he preached them yes preparing for God's Nixon Tim story came out and did a healing crusade healing served healing service yet whatever said it was Azusa healing services and while the service is going on God spoke to me again and God said to me he wants to meet you after the service I said lord please I don't want to think about that because I'm thinking this is that this is my imagination at the Azusa service and it's not something I want to think about that come on now that's silly is I'm really talking to myself trying to that that's you that's not godless yeah yeah it's my pleasure and a few minutes after that Dino taps me on the shoulder again and he's and so I turn around and Dino says pastor wants to meet you after the service so come meet me at the corner of the stage and I'll take you back okay I guess that was God so I go Dino comes out to the corner of the stage takes me to the back and you're in the dressing room getting taken care of some business and it's taken awhile and I'm sitting out I'm a pastor Helen she says you have a beautiful shout she and dad Vaughn is their Bishop quandra Wilson is there and mom McIntosh and I'm watching and I'm looking at these men and mom McIntosh and I think I tell God to myself that I'm speaking just to go silently I said god I don't belong here and as soon as I said it mom McIntosh touched my knee and she said you have ever you you belong here as much as anyone else I say good lord this is crazy so then God says to me he wants you to go to his house tomorrow night I said god that's just stupid God that is just stupid and as I'm getting ready like you come out we we talk for all of about 15 seconds as you're on your way to your car and you drive off and I said and I thought okay well that was that and but he had and I thought and God you were wrong so he doesn't he doesn't want want to want me to go to his house and as I'm leaving David Shea stops me and he says are you gonna be here tomorrow night and I said yes and he said well pastors having a low reception at his house tomorrow night and I'd like to know if you can come wow this is ultra Wow 100% I used to hear God so clearly you know for for a young Christian I don't know when you actually receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost but um I'm sure your viewers will understand what that language to be hate to hear from God or to be spoken to by God and identify that as being God mixing faith with your fears and doubts that it might not be yeah and having such quick confirmations an affirmation about sometimes within seconds or minutes or hours yes that's that's pretty extraordinary I don't know how old were you I was 22 well I remember I don't remember any of that I remember you come into my office from Texas I think saying that you wanted to be a part of the ministry and that you were available in anyway and that really touched me and you were so humble about it and and you got up and left my office and I thought I said to somebody who was there I'm we're gonna find the place for the young man mmm I like that I liked the fact that you danced in the Holy Ghost like we danced and that you were somehow connected to the essence of the ministry and our desire to integrate the cultures and show that the Holy Ghost is no respecter of persons or that God of Jesus isn't as well and it was not long after that you were here and you're one of the last ones that have better still with me after all those years do all this I'll call you the curator of the ministry you know everything about the museum we are became your love for God your sensitivity of the Holy Ghost and you were dancing in the spirit and dancing and the great flow and the people were fascinated just like they were when varan preached and this was before he preached for a white man in a cassock with Mary hanger he looked like a Catholic priest yeah and then he got up there and I liked those kinds of shock treatments for the whole thing because he just you know and everybody loved him until they died we even approach him apathetically which is to say let's say what he's not we would say the first thing we will begin with is what the scripture says he cannot do there's one thing he cannot do is he cannot lie now that does not mean that he cannot tell a lie he's God if he wants to tell a lie which one you gonna tell him not to when it says he cannot lie does not mean he cannot lie just he can do whatever he wants to do what what it means is it is beyond his energy or his essence to lie why is that because God's Word is creative so whatever he says even if it was a lie it would come to pass see if God said there's a purple flying polka-dotted ephant you better get your camera because it wouldn't be alive by the time it comes out of his mouth so regardless of what your situation is it may look like it's a lie your truck may say look how can God bless this mess I don't mess my life up my credit so shot my life so shot how can God possibly intervene it's al I'm tired of lying prophets I'm powder every year somebody saying next year gonna get better every year the same folks tear front making promises they don't keep but the truth is the moment he declares it it is fat prophecy is not God telling you what's gonna happen it's God telling you what's already happened you just ain't got there yet it had the same effect for people to see you dancing african-american black folks who I'm gonna go see you affirm them as if there this is not just some black experience yeah because it isn't it wasn't and it never be it was a human experience and the humans who were filled with holy ghost that stuff was still very important to be we did a zoo so commercial in 97 that Dino Braga did and we talked about how it wasn't a black thing and they and and Dino showed footage of me dancing and you were hosting TBN and ran that commercial the night you were hosting reeling up to the conference one of the biggest misconceptions is that as oosa is a black thing it is not a black thing [Music] [Applause] people are coming together from all walks of life black white red yellow brown and it is more than integration it is true unity in the spirit and we're finding out that we can not only just get along but we can actually love one another and work with one another and fellowship and be friends with one another and live with one another [Applause] [Music] come on you in the presence of the Lord [Music] [Applause] we are discovering through Azusa that we really are one in Jesus Christ I went down to North Carolina and preached a three-day revival for a friend and this couple came in during the service and sat in the back and I noticed them but didn't know anything about them and after the service they came up to me and they said on our way to church tonight we talked about the commercial that we saw last night for Azusa and we talked about the white man that we saw dancing on the commercial and we walk into this church in Sanford North Carolina and you're there preaching was it a black cup yes my gosh what that blew me away it blew them away too I bet well our objective and part of the whole dying thing would be dying to past hurts and resentments around racial issues race relations both in the secular world in the sacred world because sometimes racism is as pronounced it's just racism in Jesus name in the church yeah well in the religious world and that was one of the things that broke Seymour's heart and that's one of the reasons that I felt so inclined to to close the century the way again with the move of God that that wasn't just people shouting and running and hollering but people worshiping together that's really what Seymour wanted to see happen that's what broke his heart God moved people weren't moved beyond their stuck places and racism Frank Bowman had said from a white men's position the color line is washed away by the blood that was the standard that was the goal that was the hope and for various periods during that Reviva it was when the Holy Ghost hit and white people hit the floor and black folks with its front fall across each other and of course when Charles Parham got there who was a Ku Klux Klan sympathizer anyway he he saw these Blackie's he thought that was African spiritism he denounced the revival and it really hurt crushed almost Seymour who had borrowed the money from par him for the train ride to Los Angeles it'll been like oral coming to Azusa and denouncing it yeah and I he doesn't know but I had it in my mind whether or not he would like it mmm and like the general flow and and he loved it I mean he loved everything about it the first time he came surely Caesar was it was singing and when she got up she honored him me respected him in a way that he didn't even expect of course everybody knew who ro was but are also busy doing and being or he didn't realize how well known and loved he was by everybody and but she made reference him but while she was singing talking the music was there and she was doing her thing and then she hit a kind of step she said y'all don't know me she wasn't sure I knew her she said y'all don't mess with me you know I'm bout to do my thing he loved it and he was so intrigued he liked her fire her spontaneity her energy he liked that about brother Dewey's he liked it about black people in general so I was people were saying that you're trying to compete with the Zeus I said no I want a complete I'm not trying to compete with what God did God doesn't compete with itself and I certainly wouldn't compete or even necessarily compare I do know that I want to see a healing occur between the races that didn't effectually occur in long term because right after the Azusa Street revival where Bishop Mason received the bachelor than older goes to 1907 then licensed the first was some we've got preachers in 1918 base but yeah so and that's the same your oral was born and I put a lot of it and all that was supposed to happen the way it happened and and it was beautiful everything ultimately is beautiful in its own way and its own day but we don't understand things when they occur as being divine and everything ultimately is God and ultimately good even the dying process of dying to your ego to your racism to your bigotry to your tribalism to you you're territorialism to your white or black privilege and this superior or attitude that some of us believers have that we're the chosen people of God and it was the Charleston country of God I have to die know all that stuff daily I have to die to the pain and pathos and disappointment of seeing the death not exact Ted not precision to death partial deaths that's where the zombie-ism comes in your part dead in part alive and you're the walking dead and you're frightening you know and you do not on the flesh of others and so there's a lot of purging your book will will purge the consciousness of a lot of people and you're using Christian lingo and language and Christians who are struggling to subdue their flesh and all of us are and we're afraid of ourselves we're afraid of what we might do without restraints or without laws or without hell or without the judgment of God or the whip of God or something to restrain me because if you don't whip me or give me hell I'm gonna give you there I mean I'm gonna go crazy and I since I've freed myself from some of those were saying I'm not crazy I mean I don't even want to do things that some of you people literally really deliver interesting I never really I never back so I never lived in sin the way we were taught sin is I mean I I don't I don't have any battles that I spread when I was 14 or 16 or 21 I didn't because I didn't believe in it and I mean I pretty much been I had to live saved whether I was saved that's the language of our church when I came down here all these people were talking about being born again and you know being saved but I was thinking I'll you live and see you call yourself saving drinking a glass of wine I got that secret Indian and wearing them tight britches it you know just how it is judgment because that's what I was taught we really emphasized living holy and I remember saying that and I that but that whole concept of me living and or being whole I distinguished between being holy and living holy where God's peculiar people that word means possessed by God owned by God that's what holy means it doesn't mean you're perfect it means you're separated and sanctified and distinct connected to God I thought I made a perfect imperfection so I struggled with all that and but when I came among the quote/unquote charismatic who Holy Ghost filled spirit filled methods and spirit baptisms were from Catholics well none of those people were associated with the whole in his church like like maybe Nazarenes and something like that so I would urge and left and right I remember the first time I saw evelyn roberts and a pair of slacks like i mean she had a green pantsuit on she came to chapel in it or came to something and it's so startled me i went straight to the phone i call my mom and that's her mom yeah well Roberts came in here in a pain I don't know if these people are really saved and pick Michael Pitts tell me that his his granddaddy would say what I say but they say from me I thought Baptist people were Christians but not sanctified so I'm so glad that after all these years I don't have all those judgments I remember them I remember how they manifested in my consciousness and in my life but I'm I'm not stuck there well this book might as well have have your name on it you might as well have written it because so much of what I am and know in our and I can't be lying I think about the Bible but we issue and because of you really and people tell me they hear you when I speak honored to know you to work with to have known you all these years and been a part of what you've been doing for the last 30 well CC wouldn't wind when God said you will just meet him you'll know him a lot of people that have met Jesus there's an altar somewhere kans yeah but don't know him right a lot of people encountered God met God even heard God speak like you do but didn't know them know is an intimate term when Jeremiah quotes God is saying before our forms of the womb I knew you before we say this it was an intimate term that meant that you you were known and you knew when I say the word knew me so that I identified God I identified with God I had a a connection to God or to the essence of what God is this wonderful euphoric reality that is intelligent its source for and resourceful and I feel one with God that's you have a oneness with me even when you didn't understand inclusion and struggle with that and you stayed long enough you might have distanced yourself a little while but I knew you would come along when when when the when the masses of people love Jesus because he said I am the bread he said to his disciples we are you guys gonna leave too and Peter said we would but we don't know where to go you have the words of life and I said and I've said it about you did you so where am I gonna go you have the words of eternal life Christians will tell you they very easily if you don't believe it King well the you know the the big lack and I can address this issue the church has to die to its arrogance and to its pompous of false piety and as a bishop in the Lord's Church or pastor or any title you put in front of our name Reverend held or whatever even in the new thought movement and where they don't speak in tongues Reverend Psalms I mean these titles are so important when you go to seminary to be inseminated mm-hm you come out with a title or degree all human beings wrestle with self-worth and some feelings of inadequacy and want to be affirmed or confirmed or validated why it's because our Eagles are afraid that we don't belong here we feel isolated and alienated and this sense of lack so we're always trying to approve or improve ourselves because we fill innately disapproved that we're not welcomed or if welcomed not wanted here so I'm talking psychology now and Jesus always had come unto me all you that labor and heavy laden I'll give you rest from what the stress a feeling that you're not invited hmm I want you here I don't just welcome you we want you here adulterous come tax-collector come I'm a hangout with all the undesirables all those who are marginalized and kicked to the curb you are my friends mmm that was his message he didn't say ain't no about salvation there in the sense of week by the Evangel evangelicals talk he talked about acceptance and and making people feel the scripture says the sinners heard him gladly the only ones who didn't feel comfortable around him were Pharisees and that word means separatist in both Greek and Hebrew Jesus says no I'm including this I I love you all in God the word includes me included means to be enclosed or safe or everybody talks about being saved but nobody feels safe right until I got and I'm still dying daily to to arrogance and ignorance and you know ego passion you going to passions and thoughts I don't want to kill my heel I just don't want it to kill me yeah okay and I don't want I don't want it to drive me and Matt uh control me Paul said all things are lawful but everything's not beneficial Oh things are lawful he had a whole list of sins just above that interesting chapter of Corinthians but I'm not gonna be controlled by any of them I'm not gonna be dominated by any of them he's talking about discipline all the stuff was around me but I'm dead enough not to react or respond or enact to any of them I can walk to the valley of the shadow of death and fear no evil because God is with me God is Mei can I can go to the city of Samaria we must do hostilities she said we must go through Samaria there's a time or some area that you don't want to go through yeah and not feel intimidated by it or timid when Paul said to Timothy God hasn't given us a spirit of fear he's a Greek word that meant timidity not Folio not fright just to be intimidated or cowardly God has not given us a spirit of cowardice but of love power and self-discipline King James has sound mind there it is self-discipline that's the proper interpretation or translation a transliteration of a translation of the term sound mine Wow self-discipline eg God good religion bishop thank you so much for taking the time I know you're a very busy man and this is just always better when you're a part of it have you been to the pool you know the going down is the death yes no wine Christian baptism we're closed they should go into the water this summer emerging into the water then submerging going under then emerging coming out death burial and resurrection yeah death burial and resurrection a lot of us die but if you're not buried you become a living dead and you're a zombie and your stench so if you're gonna die go ahead and bury the flesh or bury the rest and stuff that doesn't work and don't be afraid of the burial going down because in in in the natural world we bury them six feet out because six is the number of flesh the number of man the number of sins sex dead arson so you go in and go under and you come back out in glory or clarity a lot of you have actually been you died and been buried but you ain't been resurrected you're still in the dirt come on out come okay whatever come on out that's the emergence that's this powerful vibrant dynamic soul that has come out of the dust and that's what when Paul says we died to sin in conscious how can we live any longer in that consciousness you know what shall we say then shall we continue in sin that grace abound god forbid within the next verse says we die to sin God not to thinning but to send consciousness or condemnation because of because there's no condemnation they've already Christ he walked and after the flesh but after the spirit all right you

Channel: AcesHighStudios

Views: 23,574

Rating: 4.647059 out of 5

Keywords: Drop Dead Book, Dying to the Fleshly Nature, Life is Worth Dying For, Mike Williams, Bishop Carlton Pearson, Higher Dimensions, AZUSA, To Die is Gain

Id: nayZowZXz8M

Length: 60min 1sec (3601 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 21 2019