DrHeemedOut vs Professor Flowers Debate Review | Vaush Reacts

[Music] now of course we're not done because we have the fine fine content from dr hemed out with professor flowers get me in there yeah so i'm an immigrant right as before you won't be able to see but there are two people and they have distinct voices so when i hear like that that indigenous people should have uh self-determination of their land this used to be their land i feel as though i'm not welcomed here why can't we just help to address the current systemic issues without saying that like oh no you're this is our land kind of well it's not it's not your land the ding's coming up but like why can't it because it's never stopped being stolen and uh i think it's just kind of as simple as that i just don't think the dichotomy of colonizer and colonized applies to today's analysis of the world and i remember back when i was growing up that darker skinned black people would kind of [ __ ] talk lighter skinned black people do you see how like once you like start thinking about the intricacies and the possibilities once i start thinking about the end not you not you i mean like once once like i've never thought sorry i didn't mean you i just i'm sorry these are all coming up these are all previews wait was all of this to lead here i already got here uh and mario's bugging out mr flowers how are you doing today doing good how are you i'm good i'm good i i was really looking forward to having this chat with you and i'm glad you were able to make it how long is this debate it is an hour unaltered but we will be speeding it up oh it's already at 1.2 we're going to speed it up to 1.3 neither of them are explicitly fast talkers the way that demon hans can be with you how's how's the how has it been since you chatted with wash i'm curious um it was really hard the first few days because there was there was like this clip that went viral um but that was probably the clip that was going around um but when i first saw that clip like everyone on it was saying that was genocidal and that was really overwhelming because i never you know i'm still a smaller channel i've never had like that many eyes on me so it was just overwhelming that that many people were like you're a genocidal separatist and uh so that was rolling but then like it got better um because like the clip also went viral where people were like this is [ __ ] right so um it kind of like kind of evened out a little bit and then um it hasn't been too bad in the past like couple weeks like i've tweeted about voshk a little bit but i haven't been dog piled yet it kind of in some sense got shut down i think i have this theory that like i think like some some part of like black twitter actually saw the debate and were like really angered by it and kind of just shut down a lot of the uh a lot of the debate bros i think uh uh the black twitter versus debate bros dichotomy i do like that though it's not the fact that i'm wildly unpopular literally everywhere online except for the own space that i carved out for myself it's that black people came in to save you from the debate pros all right i've seen your average twitter tanki okay and their complexion is somewhere between um i don't know vampiric and um eggshell a lot of it is i've had similar situations before where i've been like uh dog piled i guess you could say as well or your name is like in the you know uh public eye for a bit but i think people just have such short attention spans that they move on quickly and you're just left to deal with you know like you end up caring more about it obviously which makes sense it's happening to you but uh yeah i think in a way it's good that there's people have such short memories or attention spans that they just move on yeah so i'm glad that um looked at these coins it isn't continuing did you get any like new supporters out of it too yeah it's um it's really weird um i strangely there are some bosch fans who were like i like both of you i'm going to subscribe and that was really strange obviously most watch fans get out of my community i had a bunch of black people reach out to me um and talk to me about this situation and then um i just yeah i've grown in subs strangely from this dude this is it's really indicative of how she thinks when she thinks of people on her side she thinks of race you know she doesn't think of socialists came to my side it's not socialists came to my side it's not you know people who believe in like black nationalism came to my side it's black people came to my side it's not about the ideology it's about the race that's isn't that doesn't that seem a little odd like a little telling you know what i mean it would just be weird to me if anyone else acted like that it's just an odd default yeah that's good uh like i think it's important to be able i like that some bosch fans were able to say i like both of you i think it's good to be able to like appreciate different people's perspectives i know uh even though you might in any situation agree with one of them over the other one i think that's good to hear different voices my issue is is that vash was literally arguing the fear of retribution which is like this like classically racist argument where it's like well we can't give people back their full autonomy because they might pull a genocide you can have your attack i was literally just saying don't do the genocide and so it's like a people if that's on a red flag to someone who's listening then i don't want them to be a part of my community i want them to stay really far away from me because i'm trying the funny thing is she was actually the one doing that wasn't she i was saying i want full autonomy for colonized people please just don't do an ethnic cleansing and she was like well i don't know isn't she the one linking ethnic cleansing to full autonomy for marginalized people then she's the one saying that it's not off the table like in that she's the one making that argument right i'm trying to separate the two i'm trying to say that full autonomy doesn't have to mean ethnic cleansing she's like no no but if they really want to do it you know oh god oh i don't know why i'm even trying she's basically just like reverse alt-right i don't know what let's try to talk about anti-colonial rhetoric i'm trying to talk about anti-racism and we need to kind of like i want to build a community where we can talk about these things um and yeah i just i don't necessarily want those people subscribing to me even though i understand they're trying to be supportive i'd rather really okay i like that yeah you're holding your videos i'm gonna i'm gonna mention um that i understand they're trying to be nice but i just it's not the place for them gotcha um so i wanna i i wanna get into the you know the discussion uh personally i'll tell you i guess my perspective uh i'm not very like uh well read or anything i know one of your issues with uh vosh in general i just actually rewatched all your videos on the criticism of debate bros and bosch in general i think one problem you seem to have was that they don't uh they he that he came off as like an authority on the on the matter and that he you wish that like they would he would give more of a voice to you know creators to speak on these issues is that right uh say that's that's one it's also like understanding like what's your place to talk about these things like your place especially as a white person to talk about racism um it's only as important as it represents the voices of oppressed people oh and if you're not checking in with those communities going like did i get you know your place you're responding correctly then you need to stop talking i see um okay so i'm coming here with my hands up and i'm here to hear from you and kind of hear your perspective on these things do you have like uh what do you have like a specific background on this or anything or is it just something that you're passionate about um i don't have a specific background on um like i talked about black nationalism it's about separatism in the debate we ended up talking about uh decolonization um funny enough uh my videos about vosh were just to say that listen people don't really understand these ideas people don't really understand some people don't really understand like nationalism so try to understand these things before having an opinion and that's actually as far as i intended to go on the matter and then it turned into this doesn't she call me racist i think she went beyond that if you want like how long have you been making content for i'm just kind of curious to get to know you a little bit before i jump into the arguments like i like to i'd like to do like a little interview get to see where your perspective is from and then see if we disagree on anything or what we can talk like get into the teeth of it i guess yeah um i think i've been making videos for maybe a couple of years i'm not sure like i started making videos kind of because i was taking this class and i made a video for classes and i posted on here and then i kind of like you know casually like posted a video every now and then and then i think i started really take it seriously maybe a little more than here ago where i sort of like where i'm like i'm just gonna really focus on youtube um yeah nice uh are you liking it dude i'm gonna fence sit here and say it does make sense for black people to be cautious of white people talking about their community and its relationship with society at large yeah but if you want to address an imbalance in like who's talking about these issues try to get more people of color on it don't say that it's not white people's place to talk on it that [ __ ] is super cringe you know like push like at push like shout out like black content creators or like you know recommend some videos or whatever but if there's a big difference between trying to make a space like inclusive and trying to make it exclusive to like majority power holders which can get pretty weird pretty fast you know i hope we can find uh the rest of the coins we need here i feel like we'll be able to i feel like i have to respond to the stuff that she says but if if i just chill and let it play out you guys aren't gonna take her aside like you do with every other [ __ ] minority like woman poc tran like you guys are you're chill right i can just i could just let it play and we'll be okay will it be okay it's not gonna be okay oh god what are you what's that noise [ __ ] cats i know they're zooming around behind me somewhere it'll be fine yeah yeah yeah okay can we please find 13 more coins in here speaking of roblox i don't know what i'm gonna do if i can't find these coins that's not true though the shade system she literally said your place as a white person she didn't say like try to make an effort to represent it well she literally said like is it your place you know oh no it's happening that'd be fast here too okay there are the rest of the coins we need hold on hold on let me just get this first isn't professor flowers are colonizing himself oh [ __ ] blue coin wait how many blue coins are there in here oh [ __ ] at least two oh we should get them while we're down here then sweet [Music] okay this is the red coin fish is this the fourth or the fifth this is the this is the eighth okay there are actually four blue coins here hold on in the underwater area atop one of the highest pillars and then a top one of the mid-level pillars okay so on the pillars okay we're gonna look on the pillars then get the star i guess besides the negative uh i feel like it's a good way to vent your frustrations and stuff yeah event yeah like i think for me video essays are a form of self-expression and like i'm also a musician and this might sound silly but uh i think it feels like i'm expressing myself in a very similar way that i do through music so it's um been very like transformative i think i feel like every video that i make i or the ones that i spend like a few months making i feel like i i'm a different person by the end of it and so i really appreciated that nice so in the kind of in the making of the video you're kind of growing as well along with yeah interesting totally um okay so let's get into the first thing which is what are your opinion in general on like debates fears i guess because like yeah i'll ask you first like what do you think of like debates in general i guess a lot of people seem to hate them you do fall into that camp well i find them very entertaining i think it's very satisfying seeing people who are nazis who are just like you know getting getting owns because you know not just very frustrating um and i haven't really seen formal debate so i kind of certainly pulled my opinions on that yeah i mean like the internet debates i i i get you but for internet debates i think there is an issue of misinformation being spread like um you know i think especially like when if it's like leftist debating leftists then it's like you know in my example with vosh like i regret debating him not because i regret anything that i said because his audience knew very little on separatism knew very little on anti-colonials and had a little interest in it and after the debate they knew just as little and then came away with these misrepresentations of these things for the purpose of winning a debate and so the misinformation that spread is damage that can't be undone okay so that's where i stand on it now gotcha i'm going to suck i do definitely agree especially like i i've like so i'm a scientist and uh colvit is really uh you know big thing for me debunking covered misinformation and stuff and like for the same reason you're explaining i'm hesitant i don't really like doing covid uh debates although i do i have done a few but it just kind of uh bothers me how much people how easily you can spread misinformation uh so i definitely can see where you're coming from on that um so like do you think that if you're i remember i was watching back and you were saying that like it's not you were kind of comparing like leftist movement on one hand and then like debate debating nazis on the other hand do you like think that this is a dichotomy that uh that exists in general because i feel like you can do both at the same time i think you can do both at the same time and i don't think debating nonsense necessarily has to be bad but i think there's a lot of walls that that you come into inevitably where it's like is it your place to to be debate like especially like as a white person is it your place to be debating the validity of black people or the validity of trans people where it's like there's there's things that i've seen that come up in debates where uh it just kind of seems like it's not this person's place or it seems like there should be a trans person saying this or a black person saying this um so i think there's like these issues that come up with it i don't think that they have to be but i do think that the way that it i don't think they have to be dichotomy but i think the way that it's happening now is occurrence like someone said that who needs cointelpro when you have debate bros the way the way that like the hostility that's been cultivated like i made those two videos about bosh and i was like you know this person's rhetoric and content is making this place hostile for any black person who agrees with posh there's a lot of black people who disagree with bosh and there's a lot of black leftists who disagree with bosh and whenever we disagree with him that sucks [Music] i'd like to say that i make uh this space inhospitable to everyone who disagrees with me it's not just black people okay there are plenty of white people look i've seen my twitter mentions okay it's not just black people who hate me and this i promise you it's the equal opportunity offense taking place here so i need to needlessly racialize it um hold on let me make sure that i have this correct because this one i need to go up kind of a specific way also i'm okay with people who support ethnic cleansing being uncomfortable all right hold on [Music] there's an m somewhere here now remember mx dizzy it's and it's true the uh vosh fan is the most marginalized person online um wait hover jump down from the cliff between the goldberg to the platform with seven panels your left you'll find an m graffiti um did i get the m graffiti what else would i what else would i land on there's nothing down here what a pretty game okay so i'm assuming i got that m then we'll figure it out what time is it over here it's just about 1am i mean if you guys want me to go to sleep i can i just thought we were all having fun together we're painted as nazis and i said that before the debate and then after the debate you know i was literally tweeted yeah i was compared to the my thoughts were compared to the holocaust and i'm like well this is an issue because black people are trying to talk about these issues and we can't talk about them without being called you know a nazi or segregationist do you think that can't even advocate for ethnic cleansing these days what's up i want to ask you like do you think that so you think that like let's say i i'm middle eastern okay um i don't identify as white or black uh but i feel like i can speak on what it feels like to be a poc um minority uh and so on and so forth and i definitely have done like research on to you know the systemic racism that black people feel in north america and many other places so do you think that like i shouldn't talk about these things or um i guess like how should i go about it these are things i'm passionate about even or even let's say another one is like abortion right i think that a woman should have the right to choose i'm very passionate about that do you think that i should avoid talking about these things because i don't fall into that category i don't think that's that's not actually necessarily what i'm saying um i think that uh there's like the way i'm looking at it is like there's your experience that you've had so you can speak directly to your experience and then there's the experiences of others so like let's talk about like abortion where it's like that might not be something that you're going to uh you ever have to like face personally yourself as far as your own body but you still obviously have strong thought strong thoughts about that and so my point is is that when we're talking about these experiences that we're passionate about but aren't necessarily our experience my point isn't so that we can't talk about them but to listen first and foremost to the people who are going through those experiences and check in with them and be like hey these are my thoughts on this do i have this right and obviously you're gonna get a whole lot of different feedback from people but i think there's a due diligence in trying to really represent this group and make sure that you are representing them um if you're going to try to represent someone make sure that you're doing your best to not misrepresent them so i agree with you but the problem is a lot of these issues like i could find you women who think abortion should not be illegal and i can find you women who think abortion should be legal so it's not like on issues where everyone agrees like i don't know i'm sure i could i would be i would be hard-pressed to find a black person who thinks slavery should be allowed right so on that issue then yeah because everyone is going to be in jail a lot of issues there's a lot of you can find people on both sides who will take that position right so how do you like reconcile with that well i think what you do uh is obviously you're going to have like somewhat of a bias like you're like well i am going to probably be siding with the people who um think that abortion uh should be legal and so on but for me it's not that you have to like represent uh every single person's individual idea it's more the uh understanding that you need to talk as many people as possible to build your understanding of something it's like when women are saying that like i'm you know i think abortion's wrong and da da da i think if you're having representation of anti-abortion be like it's good to acknowledge like there are people who think that abortion is wrong for these reasons and here are the you know you might have a bias towards people who think that abortion should be legal but you can still say like here are these reasons that i agree with of like why abortion is uh should be legal why everyone should have a right to access to abortion and here's some points of what they're saying like you can my point is that you can talk with people and even though there's a bunch of different viewpoints doesn't mean you have to agree with everybody but you should have these different viewpoints and form your understanding gotcha so you i guess like let's say for abortion right like maybe what you're saying is before i weigh in on it i should have some women on to let's say one that has had an experience with abortion one that maybe wanted to get an abortion but was restricted something like this yeah like before you have an opinion on something try to find people like something that if we have an opinion that doesn't necessarily have to do directly with you or isn't directing your experience there's nothing technically wrong with professor flowers words here the problem is that she's lying what she's saying right now and it's something that i agree with is educate yourself on an issue before speaking on it which i agree with that's fine you know uh the issue is she thinks that she's right on all of this so her perspective is the educated one meaning that if you educate yourself on this and arrive at a different conclusion the only outcome that she'll derive from it is that um is that you actually didn't educate yourself you know so oftentimes when people say educate yourself what they really mean is arrive at the conclusion that i have that's across the board of course there are people all over the place that do that but that's the issue with what she's saying here damn there are so many [ __ ] blue coins just stuck in the wall it's cool but doesn't this kind of feel like lazy level design they built a level and they were like where do we put the blue coins like i don't know just put like 70 trillion [ __ ] hidden platforms over on this corner it'll work out ah [ __ ] i wanted that are you close to beating the game we are pretty goddamn close to finishing this yeah for sure after this is done we only have one more full level to cut through pianta village uh and then it's just the the main like hub area that we have to contend with try to learn about that experience from other people who where that is their experience gotcha is is kind of as far as i'm trying to go um yeah okay um by the way like uh i don't know i don't know what kind of like have you ever i assume you haven't seen my content before when i i don't know if you've done any research on me or whatever but uh i like to have like discussions i consider myself a discussion bro um i like to hear everybody hear you out whatever but like if i have disagreements with you i'm gonna push back uh in the nicest way possible um i don't know if you have you done any did you check out any of my content or anything like that um it okay that's okay awesome no that's okay um okay so um what is your goal i guess as a content creator um these are just some questions i had written down after listening to your videos so i'm curious um i think my ultimate goal as a content creator is actually just self-expression like talking about things that i think like are really important to me or um yeah and trying to express like why i think these things are important or like why i believe eyes should be on this thing um and that's my ultimate goal it's not necessarily um like activism or or things like that uh i think active that's really important gotcha um yeah because like i i agree with you because like a lot of your criticism towards like leftist content creators seemed to be that like how are we gonna have a leftist movement uh when you guys are being petty or when you're being toxic things like things of this nature but i feel like uh there's twofold so first of all i think like i'm not sure what you mean by leftist movement i guess uh and second of all would you would you consider uh growing your platform getting more eyes on your content getting more eyes on your leftist perspective would that could be considered a part of the movement or are you looking for something more than that um it can be considered a part of alleged movement but i think there's this kind of like um people really believe that youtube is the leftist movement and that's inaccurate to me um and so for me it's not uh you know you know youtube can it is certainly part of that but i think people don't understand the scope or limitations of that scope um and when i say like leftist movement um i really just mean like promoting leftism and to me i think i think that's very different for other people because i think a lot of people's leftism ends like wanting healthcare but i think for me that's listening to the voice of indigenous peoples ending white supremacy it's listening to colonize and enslaved people uh it's creating a truly equitable society ending all these systemic presence around disability uh you know transphobia racism so you think that if let's say i'm i'm not personally i would i don't consider myself a leftist i'm like a sock damn uh i'm not like a pro socialism or whatever i just like damn nuts um but i'm a progressive you know socially i'm pro lgbtq pro uh everything right so i guess my question is do you think that if there is someone who's a leftist who has this platform that like let's say um let's say someone's a leftist just for entertainment purposes just for introducing these ideas to people do you think that's like i don't know weak [ __ ] um i don't i don't think it's weak i think that's fine i think people can contribute in the ways that they can contribute um and i don't have i personally don't have any gripe with that um my main thing is that like also people like xander hall and xander hall saying that like there's like this literal quote where he says that he's like the most important to the leftist movement because he's to be an alt-righter and there's this like tweet that he has where he's saying like you know i'm not gonna go to black lives matter protest because i'm streaming and that's way more important and it's just like you know like this person kind of thinks he's more important than i think he actually is and so that's where my critique comes from it's not necessarily that on literally every content creator i think every content creator thinks their [ __ ] don't stink at some level you know yeah i mean but i think it's not that it's not irrelevant i think his his content well i have issues with zander hall like let me think like let me just think of someone else like someone else who's like a leftist content creator who has like thousands of subs like you know something it's not irrelevant but i think people don't understand also the limitations of just having youtube content at the same time and that's more of what my comments on that are about gotcha um i mean yeah like personally for me i i got into this because the same as you i want to vent i like to talk about things that i care about but i'm not really i guess trying to have a movement i'm just here to just basically entertain i think um you know with some sort of political perspective um i guess do you think it would be better if we uh if that approach was what other leftists took instead of like you know sometimes i do agree with you that people act like there's some big grand movement happening throughout through this content creation oh you [ __ ] i'm not really sure if i have like two because i think at the end of the day like youtube versus like organizing in person looks really different because when you're organizing in person i think the main thing is that you're reaching out to the community that's directly in front of you and you're creating relationships in this community and then you're like asking people to be involved in like very specific things to like where you're living and so it's it's a different it's a different um it's a whole different set of things so i think youtube you know first and foremost is entertainment and i think that's a curse and a blessing so for me i don't necessarily think it's wrong if youtube is just entertaining and you're leftist and you just kind of want to entertain um i think my biggest issue though is like when people say like i'm a leftist and then i hear them saying really racist stuff and i hear them saying stuff it's like anti-colonialist or that is called colonialist pro-colonialist and that's where i'm like listen like i was like [Music] my main problem is someone's like i'm a leftist and then they're racist yeah yeah i guess i can see the issue with that yes i'm sorry it's stupid um i hope you all are enjoying this dumb ass stream by the way is this another goddamn dead end you [ __ ] being for real with me i'm bloody loving this dumbass stream are you are you bloody loving this stream governor i'm going to continue the debate okay it's one thing if you're like a right or even just like a regular person who's like not really political saying this stuff when you're a leftist and you're spouting out the ton of rhetoric that's where i'm like this is really messed up because we're supposed to um we're supposed to like you know at the base level be like this is my stuff that's what we're fighting against gotcha okay uh i think i'm ready to jump in first of all i want to ask you do you think hassan you know hassan obviously that's not actually i don't know anything about hassan and i'm good because it's like it's just like it sounds like another debate bro that i would like oh no he's like he hates debates he hates the [ __ ] he's a leftist oh yeah he's a leftist i just don't know okay that's okay then i'm not gonna ask you i was gonna ask you if you think him buying his house was hypocritical because like he just bought a fancy new house and he's a leftist then like he's not really i guess like community organizing so anyways but you don't have to answer if you're not no i i did hear about that and i i do like wonder because it's like for me if i was ever like rich enough to to own a home like i would just own a million dollar home i'd want to redistribute the wealth or like put it in to uh like put it into like community building or something everyone says that but yeah maybe that's all i would like to say about that is i just kind of like i agree with you um okay uh i guess next one i wanted to ask you is so here's my perspective on things okay again i'm going to try to be very gentle with this because i don't want to come off like some [ __ ] or something i'm genuinely telling you straight up i'm i'm not well read on these topics but this is my perspective from my lived experience okay i'm an immigrant living in canada and i moved here when i was seven years old um because of my upbringing and having been an immigrant and lived in different places in the world i have this view that like we're all just citizens of the earth and um that anybody should have the right to live anywhere um and you know this is my general take uh so i guess this is why why i kind of invited you on to to kind of hear your perspective on things like for example how would someone like me fall into this concept of colonizer versus colonized um but yeah we can start there i guess yeah i think it's um like someone like you falling into the example of colonizer versus colonized um yeah i'm not really sure how to hold on vermin can you not hear her cries i think pigeon shut up because she heard me talk hey jim jen to like answer that i think more of what i'm getting at is that especially in um in america in the u.s and also in canada as well um the indigenous people there have never stopped fighting for their land back i think there's this kind of way that we talk about um and i think also i want to mention like i mentioned uh africa and i like use a lot of examples of decolonization there that aren't really as relevant because africans aren't trying to you know gain their uh power back or like gain their power by removing the colonizers at this point uh they're dealing with the economic legacies of colonialism more so but when you look at uh you know uh the us and canada we kind of talk about it as if uh colonization happened as if it's this thing that's like in the past and the indent into the indigenous people there it never stopped happening and it's for me understanding that was very pivotal because uh they've never stopped fighting for their land and they've they've been slighted and we need to ask them what they think that we should do about these colonial situations like in the us there's land back and it focuses um not even on all the lands of america but like there's certain places there's like a focus on like mount rushmore um and giving and uh giving that back for example it's a sacred site and um i think this stuff comes down to to asking them what they want to be done okay so i i guess my my my this is my thought process anyways like that we should address 100 we should hear out the indigenous people hear out their gripes you know like they're obviously in a lot of places in canada for example they don't have clean drinking water and that should be taken care of um i guess it's just like a lot of it seems like systemic issues which i as a progressive agree with you should be addressed um and then the rest of it falls to like uh i guess like i don't really know how all these other like the thing is i just don't know how colonizer and colonized analysis works day and age when you have so much individual movement of people there's so much that has like before back in the day when people colonize they used to be like um you know you would come over a massive group of people would come over and like set up shop whatever but now you have all this like autonomy of families of individuals to live anywhere they want so i feel like there's all this gray area in the middle that kind of makes it hard to analyze it from your perspective now yeah i think there is a lot of gray area um i think the thing that i'm getting at is that uh white people still directly benefit off of colonialism and you know gosh made the argument that we all do but also at the same time like other people who are non-white are still oppressed by racism which is a result of colonialism i think both of those can happen at the same time right you can have everybody's lives improving but they're still like it used to be like that here and now it's here but there's still a gap between those two yeah so i guess like i agree yeah yeah so we should address what i'm saying is we should like address we vosh you and me would probably all three of us agree that like systemic issues need to be addressed uh for indigenous people for black people and like on those specific solutions we'll probably have a lot of agreement um i guess this whole idea of like victimizing white people or victimizing the colonizer is what i don't know if i i don't know what benefit that serves i guess victimizing the colonizer can you tell me what you mean by that yeah so i'm an immigrant right when i hear like that that indigenous people should have uh self-determination of their land this used to be their land i feel as though i'm not welcomed here um and and i don't really like that like i feel like i'm you know i participate i contribute to society um so that's kind of what i mean like why can't we just help to address the current systemic issues without saying that like oh no you're this is our land kind of well it's not it's not your land why though but like why can't it because it's never stopped being stolen and uh i think it's just kind of as simple as that but that these people's land has been having stolen from them there's been multiple treaties broken that shouldn't even happen in the first place about these people's land that was always theirs and it's not it's never stopped being their land it's never stopped being stolen so and so i think the point is like i don't think people who want their land back are going to kick people out first off i don't even think that's something that they're discussing but i think people need to understand is that they would have every right to discuss that because it's their land okay uh i mean okay so i guess when you say they're lying she's still doing she's like hey it's racist of you and misrepresentative to say that land back means kicking white people off however if they want to say that that's their right man whatever dude they want to you know that's just that's just how it goes but they totally wouldn't do that in fact you're racist for even bringing up is hypothetical but if they want to and do you think that just like anyone who comes and finds a piece of land first it's theirs for the rest of time no i don't think that's how land works but i also think that um in the context of colonialism in the context of massacring you know millions of indigenous people um this has been there i'm not gonna like sit here and be like ah this is like why the why can't it be like i'll have why can't it be everyone's why can't it be everyone's why can't we all prosper and live wonderfully not side by side like because it was stolen okay but like now it's now it's everybody's and okay well i guess we just don't really uh know what to say there uh i'm just not gonna sit here and be like oh like everyone has like just as much right to this land as indigenous people oh okay all right i guess that that would be where we agree to disagree i don't think anyone has any particular uh right to a piece of land over anyone else like i think that like i said as someone who lived they're like do you think it's okay though then if if that's the case then do you think that colonialism is okay i mean i think it's okay to just like come in and and take away people wait that's not a defense of colonialism didn't say that he supports invading countries or whatever he said that he thinks that like land doesn't belong fundamentally more to any one group than another that's not what land if everyone has what do you mean what do you mean by okay i guess that's a question is it like morally the right thing to do probably not but does it is it something that but if it happened they just happened so we're just gonna like live with it we're just gonna like live with colonialism well the thing is we're not going to try to like rectify any of those mistakes yeah we can rectify them by addressing the systemic issues right well the systemic issue part of that is giving them their land back okay well but this land is for what i just don't know what happens to the people that were born here for example or i think you should ask you should ask the indigenous people because i don't think they're saying that they're going to kick any of us out okay um i guess yeah i guess i'm just like a little confused you see why i'm saying that it would that it's kind of like victimization of one group of people in in while in trying to help one group of people you're victimizing another group of people um i think it's like so hard for people to understand like the atrocities that have happened okay we're gonna have to stop with this particular cliff side because this particular cliffside is gonna give me a [ __ ] aneurism holy [ __ ] is there anything else hover across from the purple con yeah is there like anything to this level with regards to blue coins apart from this happened to indigenous people and so like talking about like giving them their own way that's theirs back to them is be wildering to people because there's people living here yeah like blowing their minds it is it's blowing my mind yeah i don't know what i would do yeah i think it just speaks to like how little people have talked about colonialism or like how like a little of interest like people have been in understanding like the fight that indigenous people have for their land back i i the thing is i can appreciate the the fight i just don't know what the thing is again i just don't think the dichotomy of colonizer and colonized applies to today's analysis of the world like there's so much movement there's so much uh inter interracial relationships uh what do you do if you're half indigenous half white what do you do if you're half white half black you know like all of these things or make it so that these kind of dichotomy i think doesn't necessarily apply anymore that's why it's like okay so what you they were colonized like i don't know 2 300 400 500 whatever 100 years ago and but what are we gonna do now to improve things i guess um yeah i mean i don't think that dichotomy necessarily exists as you're saying there's like you know different people people are mixed and so on people are moving around um but i think uh at the very least like there are still tribes who are like very clearly like existing and fighting for their land back i think at the very least we need to ask them what do you what do you want to do this has always been your land obviously there's people who are living here um what do you think we should do and you know i obviously need to reach researchers more but from what i understand people aren't literally saying that we're going to kick every person out of america people just want like these certain territories back people want these certain places back and then people want to actually own that land not have to pay taxes to the american children but have it be theirs you know the conversation about like kicking people out is just not what's happening and also there's an issue specifically of white people still benefiting off colonialism even if they're immigrants from europe in the past three generations they're still benefiting directly from the effects of colonialism so yeah so what about like a like a black person from uh england moving here i don't necessarily think that they're like necessarily uh colonizers and that they're benefiting from uh colonialism and when i say like colonizers that's what i'm talking about is people being able to uh reap the direct benefits of colonialism but at the same time if you asked indigenous people how [ __ ] does your perspective on what colonialism means have to be for you to not think a black english person moving to the u.s doesn't benefit from western colonialism she literally thinks that colonizer just means white that's literally all she thinks holy [ __ ] she's so bad faith she's not bad faith she's racist she's just she's just unironically a died in the wool racist this is horseshoe theory come through this is this is every like fearmongering conservatives argument against the left like realized in a single person holy [ __ ] people like what do they uh think about someone like a black person moving from the uk or things like that um again i don't think they were they're going to kick they would want to kick that person out or even kick the white people out necessarily but i think uh it comes down to this being their land and asking what do what should we do with this and again they're not really talking about kicking anyone out but i think at the end of the day like even me as a black person living here um i wonder like i still would like to ask indigenous people like what do you think about uh me being here or and not even just think about it you were born in north america right yeah yeah okay so don't you feel like north america is your home um sure but it's at the end of the day like we're talking about like years and years of just massacring population i get that but you're just one person like you just want to live a life like you know like i don't know what how can you be blamed for that is that not where it is it's not about blame it's about rectifying the mistakes that are not even mistakes just the atrocities that have happened how can you be born yeah i get how can you recognize like what can you do besides advocate for things that will improve systemic racism by indigenous people for starters sure and hear what they have to say okay that's really the point that i'm getting at cause like i'm not even saying that we should all that the indigenous people to just kick all of this out it's not really something that i'm advocating for i've got that yeah pretty clear i guess but it's just uh yeah i don't know you're right here we'll come back another time i think the the reason that it's kind of unclear is because while you explicitly say i don't want to do this some of the conclusions of the the your analysis might lead to that i guess it doesn't at least close the door to that kind of yeah yeah let me let me explain that yeah yeah yeah yeah clarify anything you want yeah there i saw this tweet that pretty much just like like uh broke down the position i was in so i'm just gonna like pretty much oh hello like copy paste that but communist who pointed this out and so oh can you hear me yeah your audio is weird like it's good for like three minutes in a row and then for 10 seconds it's like you're robotic but i think it's your internet might be it might be an internet thing but it's okay i believe she's getting colonized by her internet um for total credit by the way i think that he is hemed as handling this conversation like a champ i think that heemed is directing the conversation very well it's keeping a brisk pace it's expedient he's handling her in the sense that he's asking like the right questions but he's not doing it in a way that is liable to get her to back off or stop paying attention you know he was really good at that you know discussion better than debate well see keemed is lying this is a debate keem's goal here isn't actually only to get her perspective on things he's pushing back against her ideas he's just doing it by asking questions which is often a good way to keep evasive people from running away though i know how this conversation ends and eventually she catches on to that okay sorry about that oh hang on a second now you're everyone's sick say something that's interesting hello okay one more time talking talking talking talking uh okay we're good go ahead okay so so vasha's arguing uh the fear of retribution argument which is that we can't give uh we can't give uh indigenous people their full autonomy because they might pull a genitals when did they argue so i wasn't about to like buy in to that argument because it's it's like classically racist argument um so i was like arguing that you know we should give indigenous people their full autonomy back and so uh he's like what if they pull a genocide and so if you say well they can't pull a genocide then there's the question of asking who's telling them that they can't because the whole issue is that um people have not allowed them to have their full autonomy so instead i say genocide's wrong and it's not really something that they're going to do but at the end of the day we need to give them their full uh autonomy back so what i know that helps clarify sorry one side first of all your camera's a little out of focus now that you do maybe just she literally sounds like she's never talked to an indigenous person oh i guarantee you she at the very least she's never talked about these issues with them you know why because indigenous people don't talk about getting their autonomy back i don't even think i've ever heard that word used in the context of land back what do you mean autonomy do you mean legal citizenry that's not what we're talking about here we're talking about access to land and resources not autonomy but but she keeps saying autonomy because she wants to frame it as though i am trying to take away people's like freedom but that's not what we're talking about i'm trying to ensure other people's freedom won't be taken away come close me i'll put my hands in front of it nope no no it was doing so good before now it's just switching it over is it going to be on a video yeah okay let me just turn it that's weird it was it was so good before yeah it's the zoo now we're good yeah now we're good okay cool okay um so okay so this is the thing i want to ask you is like you say um we should advocate for the tribal autonomy is a big issue indigenous cypress talk about yeah but in the context of what we're talking about here which is decolonization especially in the united states it's not really a matter of autonomy the broader issue is more about access to resources and the um respect for old treaties made stuff like that you know what i mean wash please actually talk to a native person i have also i've gotten emails from like professors on this [ __ ] i've gotten emails from people who lived on reservations to talk with me with these things sometimes i even respond to them and as i understand it and i say this with the greatest of respect okay as far as i can tell i'm always right as far as i can tell a lot of people who talk about indigenous issues do so in a super virtuous signaling perspective where they consider indigenous people to be like the ultimate giga minority you know like the super duper mega minority that they can virtue signal harder than they ever have before and while it is true that indigenous people are like super [ __ ] in terms of social power i'm not going to deny that um their attitude is more about like using them as the big weapon against the meanies online whether they be conservatives or in this case better leftists but it can be like really frustrating and alienating right yeah baylor when she says autonomy which she's dog whistling at is the autonomy to commit ethnic cleansing like you guys realize that right that's the only thing i'm leaving off the table i'm like dog i'm pro land back i will defend and advocate for all this [ __ ] bring back the treaties give them all the just don't do an ethnic cleansing and she's lying well they wouldn't but if they wanted to shouldn't they be able to no no and shut up [ __ ] you no yes i agree rico harbor does verticality better than this level this level is mostly just vibes man autonomy of people right and i'm 100 for that but i would just say that the autonomy should be on an individual basis why group people and say like that black people need to have autonomy or white people why not just say everyone should have autonomy and be able to do whatever they want live wherever they want and be free from systemic you know oppression right isn't that gonna know what to do then like specifically saying no black people need to have an autonomy to cut out all the other options well because these people are a group and as a group they haven't been able to have their autonomy uh what do we mean by autonomy i guess like indigenous people like have not been able to autonomy to do what just people still can't you know have like their own like kind of like laws and systems that are super limited because um like uh they're super limited because at the end of the day like they still have to like answer to like the us government like they've never been able to have their full autonomy as a group well every u.s citizen has to respond to the to the you know us the point is like there is like laws and like i should have read up on this before mentioning it i'm gonna have to be super vague so i don't speak but like um indigenous people are supposed to be able to like practice like their own law and so there's like certain laws that they can practice but it's very constraining and super limited and it ends up allowing more crime to happen um unfortunately and i'm not explaining this very clearly because i am forgetting what the exact laws are so there's like all these issues with like you know trying to give indigenous people like some of their autonomy so there are some complexities here okay as i understand it tribal police which work on reservations have their own sets of expectations jurisdictions and uh i guess allowed behaviors but there don't have the same total authority that an agent of the state has you know so there are still things they have to defer to the us government for and what that can mean is that the tribal police are slow to respond to crimes taking place because there are elements of the investigation or of carceral punishment or of things like that that um they need to like get us government permission from or they don't have the tools or resources to do it themselves so that can be like super super [ __ ] sometimes i think that stuff's really complicated i would have to yeah read more on it but i do know that it's a big problem making sure that there are no blue coins and you run out of air fast for a person wearing a [ __ ] rebreather bubble air tank thing play the debate yes just making sure i'm not missing any down here people like they don't really have all of it okay um and that's what i'm talking about gotcha and it's it's as a group of people you know it's not this this isn't like a group this isn't an issue of individuals this is specifically an issue of a group i guess i just uh yeah i mean that's i think that you can say that the group is experiencing systemic you know um systemic violence systemic issues that can be addressed systemically and then you say that individuals should have the autonomy you know like i don't know if i like this idea that like one group of people can make a determination for another group of people isn't that i don't know is that the kind of thing right i think maybe we're on the same page then which is why i'm talking about like anti-colonialism giving a group of people their own autonomy back and their own power back okay um i guess okay so so one other thing i want to ask you i guess it's kind of related do you think that the issue is like white people or do you think that the issue is colonizers um i think it's an issue of both i think that white people benefit off of colonialism and until white people take a stance against colonialism against white supremacy against racism then they will continue to be a part of the problem i 100 agree that um white supremacy is an issue uh and it should be you know dismantled again like going back to the the example of like i'll save me for example right i'm not white i experience white supremacy in terms of you know white people like thinking oh this guy's a muslim whatever so i experienced a lot of the same like similar oppression under white supremacy so i i 100 agree with that but like at the same time under your analysis i am not welcome here necessarily says i can't call this place home i guess or whatever like it's uh i don't i'm not even saying that that you can't call this place um maybe that's where some of the confusion or maybe tension comes from because uh i at the end of the day i think you can still call this place home and what i'm trying to say isn't that we all need to move or get kicked out but that we need to just stand by indigenous people and ask them what they need gotcha um yeah well for sure on that level i agree but again if that's if it's just that then i don't think uh that you know um there would be any disagreement with with wash or with me or with i think like all leftists say we should listen to indigenous people we should try to alleviate the suffering we should try to if they're you know all of these positions we hold i guess it's just that i guess it's just that last step of like self-identify what did you say self-determination that we're like yeah i don't really know about that you know no i think sorry i'm laughing because it's like if if you can't do that last step of self-determination then like you're just not like standing by just really yeah it's really funny self-determination to do whatever it's really funny though it's like oh like i can like help you but not if it means getting your land back like okay wait but okay but like i mean like i could i could still advocate for land back without saying like that like i can say okay i i i respect the you know the fact that you want your that you want to go back to the original uh declaration whatever but sometimes there's i can both be your ally and say that like i don't agree on this particular thing like let's say if there's a city of people already living on currently now indigenous land i don't know you'd have to weigh it and see exactly who who's gonna be like maybe it could be the case that by giving the indigenous their piece of land back they're actually benefiting let's say 10 000 people but at the at the cost of like a million people who live there currently being displaced um but you say like no full black full slate like it's their choice or whatever right i think that there's a calculation here to be made like i don't value indigenous livestock the calculation is that like colonialism should not have happened sure but i don't but what i'm trying to say is i don't i don't i i can do utilitarian calculus i think bad things shouldn't have happened i've done the math the holocaust was bad can we do anything about that can we undo that can we and this hitler guy i've got some notes on him what the [ __ ] are we talking about god almighty admit i mean i don't think that like indigenous lives are more important than white people's lives to where i can say or that you know you guys you make the decision for what happens to these people even though it's outnumbered like well it's not necessarily about about these people it's about it being their lands like they gonna make decisions about their land um but and that's to the extent of of what i'm talking about i don't think that like their lives are more important than white peoples it's about rectifying the issue of colonialism and that's unfortunately it could look like telling people to move somewhere else and we should i don't even think that's the nature of the beast that we're dealing with right now i don't think that's what uh oh she she did it again she she was like even if that means you know ethnic cleansing not not that i think that would happen you know don't think that's likely in case it does come to that if they want to you know sort of you know it's a last resort if they have you know like a like a final solution to the decolonization problem uh i don't think that's what digital people are talking about um i guess i just confused like i i i feel like even if i was a white person okay even if i was from england and i came here i wouldn't call myself a colonizer i would agree that i would be a white person who benefits from white supremacy but i don't think that would make me a colonizer i'm just as much uh i'm an immigrant like i don't know i guess i don't know what the and you said you hadn't thought about it that much that how the immigrant plays into this i think that there's so much individual nominations that like it's really hard to say who exactly is a colonizer unless you just say like oh all white people are colonizers because they benefit from a system that colonization set up which caused white supremacy oh well for me it's like uh the way that i use the term colonizer is about uh it's about like the white people who are directly how do you use it in a colonialist system and that's how i throw that word around right if you don't understand it hold on earth is about uh it's about like the white people who are directly benefiting from a colonialist system and that seriously well for me it's like uh the way that i use the term colonizer is about uh it's about like the white people who are directly benefiting from a colonialist only the white people holy [ __ ] does she know that white that like there are eight billion people on earth and only like one and a half billion of them are white like that's it guys it's literally just racism [ __ ] wild that is so [ __ ] wild that she can admit that dude i it's like insane to me like vosh needs to read up on his decolonization theory for talking to me you know also i think only white people can be colonizers what are you talking about and that's how i throw that word around and if you don't understand it as that that's fine it's not like a hill i'm willing to die on youtube it's like it's like an academic term that i'm trying to use i think it's just kind of like a shortened way of even yeah why people benefit from colonialism why people are still very much a colonialist problem and colonization never stopped happening in nature um yeah i don't think most people would disagree that uh you know that that white supremacy that white people benefit from white supremacy um but to then say like oh no you're therefore that makes you a colonizer even though you could be descendants generations and generations and generations later like i what am i supposed to do i'm just trying to do my best i just go to work pay my bills i'm looking for health care just like you like i'm nice what you could do just like be against white supremacy yeah of course but i think vosh is against white supremacy love you too okay you don't think so um after the debate that we had no i mean after so much like literally like every black person that bosh has disagreed with he literally painted uh saint andrew as like wanting to start a race award because saint andrew was like you all need to deal with your own white supremacy before coming into black spaces and accuse him of starting a race war you know watch had this debate on black nationalism and literally yeah she keeps listing saint andrew because they're both like the same they're both doing the whole like i'm a black nationalist pepe thing you know what i mean uh it's not great it's it's not it's not good we're getting pretty damn close to getting all these blue coins folks compared to white nationalism had no idea what it was about and just spread misinformation to this platform of almost 400 000 people this person does not give a [ __ ] this person literally like argued that we should we should have a fear of retribution of indigenous people having their full autonomy i don't have a fear of retribution i have a fear of professor flowers if she leads decolonialism i've talked to indigenous activists okay they i fear nothing from them they're reasonable okay i fear the crazy larpy [ __ ] pseudo-lefties who are like yeah if decolonization doesn't mean letting the streets run red with the blood of white colonizers then i don't want it like that those are the oh god she's just you argue that sure but like you know is the same thing having a dystopian ethnicity this person does not give a [ __ ] about actually representing black people or black issues no and if he did if he did then he wouldn't be saying this [ __ ] he doesn't give a [ __ ] about us okay so i i don't disagree that he she's mad i don't know why she's saying us though considering that she's a [ __ ] westerner born in america i don't know uh who's uh are you indigenous buddy who's who's us exactly you and i you i'm sorry you and i are in the same boat [ __ ] i don't care if you only think white people are colonizers okay if you if indigenous people were given their land back you think they're gonna look at black people and be like oh yeah you belong in our spiritual land and then look at white people and be like now you gotta go nah prob probably not i'm gonna guess i have a field look she may be black and i might be white to to an indigenous person we're both white and all are unified in decolonization we're all brought together racial abolitionism through unity oh [ __ ] it's too good i'm just saying he fights back against white supremacy like he fights back against systemic racism you know policing uh black neighborhoods being underfunded he fight but he wants he's pro raising taxes so we can redistribute money towards these groups i think that would make him not a white supremacist no not if you're saying the [ __ ] that he's still saying it's [ __ ] useless he's a useless if he's if he considers himself an ally by saying the same this [ __ ] that he says useless we don't need an ally like that he can go get [ __ ] okay um fair enough that's your opinion um what was it gonna go on to next uh [ __ ] i forgot what i was gonna say oh one thing you mentioned was that racism is systemic do you agree yeah okay and then you specifically said that if it's not systemic it's just one person being rude to another right sure i think there's also and i can add a caveat to that i think that people can do um like really horrible things also in the name of racial prejudice uh as well but i think i'm just pointed by the systemic nature of that we're happening okay so then i was just gonna my pushback on that was gonna be like it's probably not good if people are rude based off of other people's race like that would make them racist in my opinion [ __ ] i mean i think there's lots of jokes to make about white people that are really funny that are rude but they're also pointing out the the issues of racism like i think a lot of times when black people laugh about white people people be like that's reverse racist but the core of the joke is is pointing out something racist about white people okay let me ask you a question i don't have a [ __ ] problem i do not have a problem with black people making funny jokes about white people okay as a person who has been known to make funny jokes about white people himself um i am uh you know not offended um however sometimes you get the vibe that these aren't really jokes you know you you guys have seen this [ __ ] on twitter i'm sure you know there's a pretty big difference between like you know can't jump mayonnaise jokes etc etc and some people are like uh oh yeah dude white people are actually the devil and don't have souls like okay you know that's fine okay wait i have to go to level six wait i am in level six [ __ ] you wait where's the the hover nozzle the turbo nozzle if i ever like branch out and become prominent enough that i can call myself like a different type of leftist we need to go with the uncucked left dude okay because there's so much goddamn cuckoldery out there it's sickening all right so many men debasing themselves because they think it makes them a feminist and so many white people dealing with unironic racism so they think it makes them an ally today i say no i think you can do that now yeah but if i do it we have to let it happen naturally okay give me another 100 000 subs we'll make it there don't worry look if i if i hit a million youtube subs ever okay we'll form the uncucked left also hi tempest i'm doing a long stream you could probably tell like not just let me ask you a question i'm going to take it away from black and white because where is the turbo nozzle let's say that you and i are driving in a car together and the guy beside us is driving really slow and i turn to you and i'm like must be asian guy does that make me racist that's racist oh okay so that's being rude specifically it's specifically about because like i think um like who could have internalized racism there's like lots of black people who like you know don't like themselves as a black person because racism i think that like you know as a you know black person i could be racist towards uh uh towards like jewish people or you know asian people i should specify that like you know you can't be like reverse racist or generally there's probably some sort of exception but like you generally reverse racism especially against white people is not a thing when people like make jokes about white people when the core of the joke comes down to making fun of something racist nine times out of ten let's say like uh you know you ever heard one where like white people white people chicken breast and it's just like literally no seasoning whatsoever whatever like yeah white people colonize the entire world for their [ __ ] seasonings they can't even season their own food hold on british people you know it's also racist to say like that to white people i think like i don't know i just feel like it's having any sort of this is the hill if this is it's like this is like the topic but like you want to like spend your time so i don't i don't necessarily agree with him done this one i don't i don't necessarily think this right i i'm okay i'm okay with that um i don't necessarily have an issue with that and focusing on it's like oh we got to focus on the jokes black people are making about white people making fun of us because we don't no no no no no no i just i just i'm curious about your position that where you said that like racism has to be systemic or one group has a power over another group where i can think of racism tons of racism that happens all the time that is interpersonal racism that ha that doesn't have to be between groups at all it can be just just pure judging people based off of their race and i don't like that at all um yeah i think the name so like for example like if a if a black person's like making fun of an asian person or something for some sort of asian stereotype like it's really important to understand these okay hold on so we've gotten the four blue coins from the under area we've gotten the two blue coins from this we've gotten the four blue coins from the two so that means there are two blue coins just trapped in the wall somewhere just somewhere in this goddamn wall there is time still come from white supremacy and that's kind of like the thing that i'm getting as the racism that's still a part of systemic racism interpersonal racism is just not really a thing um and then someone being like rude towards white people it's not necessarily racism um it's usually like making fun of something that's that is racist so it's like at the end of the day like trying to make this distinguish she keeps saying that but to like to be fair a lot of making fun of white people isn't about white people being racist a lot of them making fun of white people is like white people being lame or dorky right i think that's the majority of jokes about white people that they're stiff and uptight and lame and dorky and stuff like that you know which is actually funny because those stereotypes are actually kind of like a way of reverse racism the stereotypes we made about black and latin people the idea that they're all like feisty and animalistic and [ __ ] because that was the [ __ ] we were pushing people would go slumming in harlem all the whites with their suits and stuff they'd be like oh what quaint ooh they do dances oh my god maurice the audacity of it all you know [ __ ] like that so like you know black people to make fun of them back well they are well you're stiff and uptight which i mean fine fair game i guess but that's not really making fun of white people for being racist necessarily if anything that's sort of recontextualizing bias against you you know now anyway you know being like oh it's just as racist to you know make fun of a white person because like you know they don't seize in their food it's just not even a conversation i just really think is important oh it's not listen don't get me wrong it's not the most important pressing issue of the day like that i'm just thinking you're trying to kind of even talking about it just seems like a little bit of like an insult to what systemic racism is well i i just i just i was just using that example similar to the asian example to just show you how like i i don't think it's just being rude it's actually racist like you're you're yeah and i would agree okay awesome yeah i would agree in that example i shouldn't be rude to people based off of their their skin color or their heritage in any kind of way regardless well i think if you're talking about a white person because their heritage is literally the legacy of racism and if that's what you're specifically making fun of then i think that's fine i don't think it's reverse rape that's kind of interesting i'm pretty sure white people have more like heritage than just the racism they did you know i mean don't get me wrong there's a lot of that but doesn't every heritage have that it's not like native americans weren't fighting each other or whatever they they were kind of patronizing to take that away from them would you say like the legacy of native americans was butchering other tribes because that'd be kind of weird champ you know just seems seems a little a little sorry to be fair white people isn't a race yeah it is white people well white is a race it's not an ethnic group but if you take all the white ethnic groups from i mean hundreds and hundreds of white ethnic groups then i mean yeah you'll find um you'll find plenty of racism and terror and slavery but that's not like the entirety of the history of ethnic groups that are considered white you know racism because i think my point is people will be like well if you're making a joke about a white person then you're being just as racist or it's just so much a problem and i'm like no most of the jokes about white people are making fun of racism actually i i agree i agree sometimes you can make like racial jokes where you make fun of the racist uh i know what you mean like making a stereotype oh this is what a racist would say or something like that i i can get behind that but like uh just because one person's in a position of power systemically i don't think it makes it uh you know acceptable to even the colonizer thing like there's probably lots of white people who just are white because listen if you saw me and i didn't tell you i was brown and i didn't have a big beard you might think i'm white um but i i don't know like i don't know if you come up to me and you're like you want to like protect the feelings of white people because i want to point out that they benefit from like the system of colonialism no no i just hate wait when did heemed ever say white people don't benefit from the system of colonialism listen how she talks you just want to protect people like white people from this she calling him the cecler come on come on professor flowers just say it we're all debate bros here we're familiar with the odd slur now and again come on throw it up my favorite part of pointing out the seesler is that nobody like half the people in chat don't know what it means judging anybody off of their background or skin color i think it's not a judgment it's just like a fact that black people benefit off colonialism i agree that there is white supremacy i just don't want to i just don't think it's right to say that oh okay because white supremacy exists all white people are therefore villainized i don't like i don't even think it's like i think there's an issue with white people benefiting off colonialism notice how she can't even say i don't think all white people are villains like the obvious counter-argument there would be to assuage that particular point yeah demon mama i mean the problem is because she's adjacent to left-leaning issues steel manning her positions will lead you to somewhere like coherent but that's only because she's in their proximity her positions are abhorrent she's explicitly stated that she uses colonizer to only refer to white people that is indefensible from any academic or colloquial understanding of colonialism that's like you know that that like that's like when you talk about like violent crime in the us to alt writers and they talk about it like it's something exclusively black people do like their perspective their framing on this is so [ __ ] that they're like warping reality around their prejudice you know um it's pretty goddamn weird i don't think flowers is examining ethnicity as a construct she hasn't mentioned ethnicity at all she just talks about white people that's it and you can still benefit off colonialism be a part of this massive issue and be a totally fine person you know like those can both exist and i think like i think the need to be seen as a good person is kind of not kind of but it's just making roadblocks they need to talk about uh talk about races and talk about colonialism you can still benefit off of colonialism benefit of white supremacy and still be a good person and if that's like what you have to hear to be able to have these conversations is fine i give i give all white people the blessing to still be able to benefit all the colonials and still be fine if that's what's going to help you be able to talk about these issues and she's so patronizing too she's like yes little white babies yes you can benefit from colonialism without being a bad person like she has to be so [ __ ] patronized about she can't just be like yeah i think you can be a good person spite of that i [ __ ] hate this map i cannot believe this map that that is insane that they would do that to me don't hype me up too much lindo please okay um gotcha uh i guess like yeah i still didn't get my answer about like what would happen to mixed people what would happen to interracial marriages or like there's so many um intricate dynamics here at play that like i don't really know how that would play at all i can't even wrap my head around it i don't know either because it's not something that indigenous people are really talking about it's not even a conversation that's on the table like what would happen to mixed people no sorry sorry sorry what i'm saying is obama a colonizer you know that's what i'm asking you is like how white do you have to be that is such a sinister response by the way i don't know what would happen to you i haven't heard them talking about it that's a weird thing to say when asking about mixed race people you know what i mean isn't that a bit stre that feels a little bit strange i need to be a colonizer it's like it's like such tough questions to ask right i think it's like oh yeah oh you're back sorry i think it's like white uh in passing where it's like if you can get like the full benefits of white supremacy i don't have to face the impressions of white supremacy for me that's when i'd be like uh you know calling you a colonizer i don't see that as an academic term i just say that like you're benefiting off of colonialism that's what i mean by that and maybe i should use something else because it's very confusing to people but at the same time i i don't i'm not really interested in um i'm not really interested in like uh breaking it down don't you people either sure don't you haven't you uh and again i don't know what your upbringing is like or whatever but i know that um when i i grew up in a very urban city i grew up in toronto and there's a in like a black-ish area i grew up and i remember back when i was growing up that darker skinned black people would kind of [ __ ] talk lighter-skinned black people um have you had do you know do you know what i'm talking about with that yeah there's colorism yeah exactly closer you are to like lighter skin or if you're a mix or something like that even if you're though you're black you can still have privileges of being lighter skinned and this creates a lot of tension between black people right so do you think that like that kind of um analysis from black people is is appropriate towards those light-skinned black people or i mean i don't think you should just like hate uh obviously like hate or like bully people because they're lighter skin but we need to be real about the fact that you have lighter skin yeah closer proximity to whiteness sure of course yeah i i wouldn't i think that's where their frustrations coming from and i think but what can someone do about their skin color i can't help it i'm sorry like why would you be frustrated at a [ __ ] light-skinned black person because you acknowledge they have slightly more privilege than you with regards to benefiting from white supremacy if that's your impulse isn't that kind of [ __ ] this this feels to me like oh [ __ ] here's the rocket nozzle this feels to me like professor flowers legitimizing the harassment blast off let's go give me the blue you know what i mean that's how i would feel like why am i getting the brunt of it i didn't [ __ ] choose my skin color or my parents i i don't understand like obviously you can't like change your skin color but you can still like choose to be against white supremacy you can still be against racism i think like with i don't think you should like make fun of people who have lighter skin or something like that and people i've heard people who are light skinned have gotten bullied and i think that's messed up but simply talking about how people who are lighter skinned have a closer proximity to whiteness like she can't do you just want us to not talk about it no i don't he was literally just like don't be resentful of people because they're lighter skin tone than you she's like i can't be colorist oh you want me to silence myself with regards to issues on white supremacy always talk about white supremacy 100 bullied lighter-skinned blackheads no i think she was bullied by darker-skinned black kids and she's internalized a lot of self-hate because of it and now she's reflecting that like super prejudiced worldview outwards she talked about that in her conversation with me that she was the bullied one oh [ __ ] i didn't see that mythology uh can you um dm it to me on discord we're almost done with this debate then i have to do dono's and then tomorrow we're going to have a very special stream okay we're going to do exactly two things in that stream okay buddy time and if they're still down for it we're going to talk to a special prominent guest who hasn't been on the stream before i don't think um it'll be exactly those two things no other news no other stories nothing it'll be those two things uh so let's finish this debate which has like three minutes left to go um and then i'll read dono's and then i got ahead see i think we should talk about white supremacy and we should dismantle where's that star go but i don't think that the right way to do it is to condone being let's say make making fun of white people for being white or calling them colonizers just in the same way that you just said that you don't think making fun of light-skinned black people is appropriate because they're just because they're closer to whiteness the white people are the closest to whiteness what can they do yeah i just don't think light-skinned black people are the same as people though sorry i said that one more time i don't think that light-skinned black people are the same as white people i think it's totally fine if you call white people colonizers the attitudes that the darker skin black people have i think they're based rooted in the same kind of thing no like that the dark skinned black people who [ __ ] talk the light-skinned black people they are coming from the same like logic that they do when they should talk to white people no uh i think so i think the context though is different because there's white people there's white people benefiting off of colonialism uh it's a false equivalency like i'm not going to like but you just said that the lighter equivalent you just said the lighter skin people benefit as well that they benefit more from being closer not as much as white people though they're still black at the end of the day of course yeah they i mean it depends who you ask if you ask darker skin black people they say that sometimes they're white or but they're not in the eyes of white people if you're a white person who again has the power has like this social power in this situation you're still going to see a light-skinned black person is black but okay i okay i can agree with you but do you see how like once you like start thinking about the intricacies and the possibility once i start thinking about the not you not you i mean like once once like i've never done no sorry i didn't mean you i just mean like once the intricacies are applied here it becomes very difficult to to just have this kind of it's not it's not difficult no okay i don't think it is i i don't but you just okay so let's just to just to backtrack a little bit i'm going to summarize what just happened you said that it's okay to be mean to white people for being white no it's not what i said didn't you clarify that i think you just i just i don't think that you understand what i'm saying and i know that you're trying to understand what i'm saying clarify clarification i don't i just i'm sorry i don't i don't want to have this conversation i don't want to like explain like colorism i don't want to explain why calling white people who benefit off of colonialism is is appropriate i don't explain why like giving indigenous people's land back is justified i i just i know you're trying to understand but i actually just don't want to have this conversation i i'm like burnt out i'm good and to me it's not very complicated and i just would encourage people to um just watch black media black content people talk about colorism all the time i think here so if i watch other people if i watch black media i can get the answer to this question i think there's a lot of black media talks about it i think khadija has a video on it if you listen to the bowie i don't know if it's saying the last name yeah all right a couple people yeah go ahead look up khadijah mobile it's butchering her last name uh t noir um talks about it i'm sure ask kenya has a video on colorism and i'm sure that um for harriet does like black people talk about colorism all the time and the nuances of it and i think those things will kind of give a little bit of um a bit of more perspective but it's not something that i want to try to convince someone to you know my thoughts about right now so i'm sorry that it's like abrupt and i just feel like really frustrated and like i'm just not interested in arguing okay um if i understand you're also trying to understand i appreciate that but i just don't have i just don't have the capacity for that right now okay um do you want to plug your channel or whatever or you just want to say goodbye i'm good i'll just call it here but thanks so much hey thank you so much i really appreciate it yeah have a good one bye-bye my favorite part of every professor flowers debate is when she doesn't plug her channel because she's embarrassed of her performance that's my favorite part of all of them that's the that's definitely the the best part [Music]

Channel: The Vaush Pit

Views: 213,149

Keywords: professor flowers, vaush professor flowers debate, prof flowers, drheemedout vs mel, drheemedout vs chaosismel, tankie debate vs mel, vaush vs mel, vaush vs chaosismel, breadtube vs tankie twitter, jesse lee peterson, heemedout, heemed out, dr heemed out, drheemedout, hero worship, dr.heemedout, heemed, drheemed, dr.heemed, halloween, theserfstv, drheemsout, progressive, perspective philosophy, progressives, wickedsupreme, vaush vs ml, prageru response, memes

Id: 5l90-mO6KC8

Length: 77min 55sec (4675 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 04 2021