Dr. Ross Porter: Former Presbyterian Elder Who Became Catholic - The Journey Home (4-28-2003)

good evening and welcome to the journey home our guest this evening is dr. Ross Porter he like myself came from the Presbyterian Church and he's going to share his journey to the Catholic Church in a bit we always pick a theme for this program and it helps us shape our discussion and the theme that was not only important to to Ross but also comes out in some of his writings is the issue of what does it really mean to believe the word believe how do we define its meeting do we go to Webster do we go to the cyclopædia which Christian tradition defines the meaning that the extent the full content of what it means to believe what must we do to truly believe there is a statement once when in John chapter 6 when some people who had been impressed by Christ's teachings and healings and they were following him even if once they had been fed by him miraculously at some point even said that they wanted to make him King but later on some came to him and said what must we do to be doing the work of God and jesus answered well this is the work of God that you believe in him whom he has sent that's the work and I'd know from my background which was kind of anti on works all faith alone we understood the work of God was to believe what does it mean to what extent is it a one-time thing a lifelong thing can it be lost can you no longer believe and - some of you listening they'll seem like obvious questions but think that there are Christians who live across the street from you that have a completely different understanding of what that word means and that's what we're going to talk about tonight remember you're an always an important part of this program so if you have a question for us call us at one eight hundred two two one nine four six o or you can send us an e-mail at journey home at II W dot-com Ross welcome to the program great to have you here great and you know we didn't know each other before you arrived today but as we shared a bit of our background we had a lot of things in common which is neat you know not only in just college issues and other things but the fact that we compared conversion stories it's not amazing I mean I appreciate the opportunity to be our love your show and I love telling my story it's interesting I I'm sure you've had this experience too that every time you tell it you celebrate God's goodness in your life you know and you commit on an even deeper level to what he's doing in your life as a Catholic and it's a story ultimately about God's love you know it's it's it's my story and that I'm the person but it's really about God's love in the end it's about how God touches you that's exact 'god I didn't mention this but but dr. Porter is a psychologist and don't hold that against me more okay but I will say that we have a fine audience tonight it's not too bad we can't turn the cameras over here to see the thousands that are in this room here but it's a great it's good to have an audience here you know it's not always well-known but of course you're always welcome to join us here in the live program on the Monday night but let's begin as we do every week and let me invite you to share your early journey well thank you well I began by saying that that I was I was blessed by being born into a Christian family I've listened to so many of your shows and and my conversion story is different in that respect I wasn't a non-believer one minute and then I believe in the next minute there was never a time where I didn't believe in God there was never time I didn't experience Jesus's love and and I thank God for that gift and parents then sure my mother was was raised in the Baptist Church and so we we began in the Baptist Church a little bit later in the story I'll get into what happened when my father became a Christian I was 16 we became Presbyterian the Baptist was a little bit to hell fire and brimstone but it's raised in the Baptist church every time the door is opened we were there and I love my Baptist my Baptist background they they gave me a love for the scripture and and I'm grateful for that to build on yeah that's my image of a Baptist pastor is the Bible open and the Bible says sir because a great reverence for that's right the authority of the word absolutely and I appreciate being instilled in that both of my Lutheran Presbyterian surrounds do for me conversion for me has always been really about moving out into the deep we talked today about that Tom Hanks movie a few years ago cast me where he's he's stranded on a desert island and after four years or something he decides he needs to to launch out into the deep and try and get back home and and that for me was a great metaphor for for growing in my faith that I've always believed but there's a big difference between believing and trusting and when I read we were talking about proverbs 3:5 and 6 today trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding in all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your paths that's been the detention for me the challenge for me and it was made a lot easier by the fact that I again I was born into a Christian family raised in the church now you said that when your father converted so you were brought up Baptist with your dad involved or believers baptism at age 7 because I was able to express that Jesus Christ was my Lord and Savior and it was a beautiful experience full immersion baptism and and at 15 I remember going to a church camp where I committed to the ministry and not just - oh Jesus Christ so from a pretty early age I was thinking about some some pretty deep issues and serving the Lord and in a serious way that coincide with your dad's it didn't I mean it happened about a year before he became president he was raised Christian Zionist and but became a Christian when I was 16 and and I think a change for him it was it was and and a great grace for the whole family we became became Presbyterian it's a little bit of a transition we you know to drive to a different church but but the theology wasn't terribly different but it was it but but that was important also because the presbyterian church again building right did that did no but the Baptist's I developed a love for the scripture with the Presbyterians I learned about order and I learned about history there was there is that that dimension that that wasn't really in the Baptist tradition and so did you go right from high school doesn't college to seminary that the usual well I wanted to make a lot of money after high school I I committed to serving God in some way but I was still bargaining again this tension between you know believing and trusting let me make a million dollars first Lord then I'll serve you I promise I'll do the right thing Oh fine a million but Jesus what guy could do from you know you know right I mean it was just it was endless so was pre-law until three months before I graduated from UC Santa Barbara and realized what it actually would mean to be a lawyer and panicked and sidestepped that and actually worked in commercial brokerage for two years and absolutely hated it I was a terrible salesman could never close a deal enjoyed visiting with people could never close the deal and actually was less than two years because I couldn't I couldn't have made it that long and read a book by Scott Peck the road less traveled yes it turned on a light for me not that it was a particularly Catholic book it wasn't but but it but it fact that book was in his Christian phase yeah no no that's right later no but it but what it did was I I saw that that psychology could actually be a ministry and that it didn't have to be secular I was already kind of wrestling with that whole issue of integrating my my faith with whatever I did and in a matter of about six months I clicked Coldwell Banker I took some some classes in psychology I'd never taken an undergraduate psychology class and so got 12 units of psychology under my belt and I've been applied to Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena the joint program a PhD in clinical psychology and a master's in divinity with the idea of being ordained as a Presbyterian minister but working in the church with my with my psychology degree maybe heading up a counseling department or something like that well it certainly sounds familiar to me you know was I have been through the seminary hoops knew guys that had similar calling was trying to training integrate theology and the commitment and believing in Christ with our discoveries in psychology how do you do that in a world the last 20 s last century that had so many goofy ideas in psychology right right well he make it integrate and I and I'm always sympathetic when people kind of are a little bit wary about psychologists I say you know you should be especially if you're coming from a faith perspective because there's a lot of garbage out there that passes as as healing yeah so we do need to be discerning about that so you were on the road to being pastor becoming a seminary pastor if me studying something to become a pastor as I mentioned earlier in a program what it means to believe right is you know it's the $64,000 question out there amongst all those traditions right you know where were you coming from in your particular tradition right I think that you know the biggest difference perhaps between the way a Protestant believes in the way Catholic believes is that that a Protestant understanding of belief is a much more narrow understanding it's it's almost a kind of a privatized belief where it's it's Jesus and me and Mary the Saints the Angels sacraments anything those are all distractions potentially destructive dear faith there's also not a lot of integrating cooperating with God's grace now it seems like it's one or the other depending on what Protestant denomination you're neither they're emphasizing too much freedom or or too much you know in the Calvinists since the word and we both can attest to this too much that God does all the work were like puppets almost and uh and and that was a problem for me looking back now I see that it was a major problem and but but I felt comfortable in the presbyterian church God doesn't call us to comfort though he calls us to holiness and and that's again where that challenge you know we talked about conversion that that conversion comes from the Latin word that means turning or a turning point and for me I would stay on that island at metaphorical island I wouldn't necessarily by nature sail off into the deep I'm not a typically a risk-taker I kind of like being comfortable but but again God doesn't call us to comfort he calls us to holiness and and that only happens by an ongoing kind of conversion process you know and I look back also it isn't exactly in tell me if you think this agree with it isn't exactly that as Presbyterians reason I was brought up Lutheran had a Congregational phase in there and then before Presbyterian it isn't that we would say that holiness wasn't important no or that doesn't matter with you sin or now I mean Luther kind of boldly made that statement about sinning so much but but in reality the way it works out is if you believe or you believe that to believe means I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior right and now I've arrived right it can encourage you to stay or content on that island and not take those risks because they're not quote necessary and let me just jump ahead a little bit I I didn't leave the church and anger I left the church with a grateful heart I met Jesus in the Protestant Church and and so how could I leave in anger but but it was a little bit like I mean my wife and my kids and I love the mountains and I was thinking about this today that it would be a little bit like showing up for a day hike and realizing that it was going to be a three-month Trek you know that that debt of course Protestants are interested in holiness and and growing in faith with with Jesus but they just don't have the same support they don't have the they don't have the same amount of tools and and supports and in their backpack so to speak I know this might be a little pushing it but it's also a bit like saying do you believe those are mountains up there oh yeah those are mountains right but not getting right into him and hiking them and seeing them and the struggles and climb to the top I mean believing that those are real mountains involved and and I'm not involved I met I met tons of very well-intentioned Protestants who are who loved Jesus very much but let's be honest how far can you climb in the spiritual life without the sacraments without the teaching Church it's it's willpower can only take you so far and the Scriptures alone can only take you so far and there are some some pretty key moments in seminary for me I talked about there okay what and what got you coming I mean you're on your journey become a Presbyterian pastor and PhD inside out yeah I remember the day it was my medieval and Reformation theology class taught by a very godly man James Bradley and if we walked into that classroom at fuller tonight Marcus I could point to the seat that I was sitting in and it was that it was that indelibly marked in my mind but he began a lecture by saying this is what separates us from the Catholics solafeet a we're saved by faith alone Sola scriptura scripture alone is the sole source of authority and the sacraments we don't believe that there are seven sacraments and I was sitting in the back of the class and I just my heart sank because it was I was I knew I was I was on the wrong well the wrong side by fuller standards I was on the wrong side of the Reformation because and at that point see I'd already begun to write my ordination essays and several of them had been returned to me it's it's sounding a little bit too Catholic you're talking too much about the real presence of Christ here you need to you know you need to talk about it in different in different language and it was a startling moment and I tell you probably the same semester I was taking my system one of my systematics series yeah systematic theology and the professor who was at the time one of the most well respected neo Orthodox Protestant theologians in the country we're talking about abortion and the man said I don't believe that scripture clearly states when life begins and thus it's very difficult for us to take a position on abortion and I tell you that experience I had in dr. Bradley's class and that and and hearing dr. Jewett say what he did about abortion I thought well if if so low scriptura if scripture alone can't give us an understanding of such a basic questions when life begins how can I commit my life and my ministry to this that and as we discussed earlier if Sola scriptura falls for me when Sola scriptura felt everything began to crumble it's all supported by that one that one idea and so what are you in the present world left with if you lose your faith in the authority of scripture as the sole foundation and unite both of known good Protestant friends who lose their right trust in the Bible you're left with a lot of humanistic theories and and that's I think why psychology and certain circles hold such sway is because in a lot of ways it's become kind of a therapeutic society a replacement maybe for yeah yeah the vacuum yeah there was a word that psychologists used that to me was always scary in used in counseling and that is denial from the aspect that if a person says well I don't do that I don't do that well you're in denial well what that does that puts a psychologist in control in control right and there's that control so what's the authority behind that control right right where is he coming from and Christian psychologist we're always trying to base it on the word but they realize gotta be based in here but it isn't based on their wool well what is the based on right right and there's that shakiness in those two worlds that has left a lot of people you know critical in doubting of of Christian psychology but I could see how you were in the midst of that trying to struggle for yourself and then two years into my seminary six or six months before I was married a lot happening there took a pilgrimage to Rome and well I had I had by God's grace again come in contact with the Benedictine monastery which introduced me to the monastic tradition the contemplative tradition which also sent me back on my heels a little bit I I had been used to dialoguing with with Catholics who were good Souls but who didn't really know how to defend their faith and so I was feeling very pompous and self-righteous about you know being a seminarian and you know these Catholics and well I show up at this Benedictine monastery and these these folks are all smarter than me they've all got more education than me and and they could and they could dialogue with me on a very meaningful level and anyway became good friends with one of them in particular we made a pilgrimage to to Italy we went to Rome Florence and Assisi and Jesus and his mother were waiting for me and jumped me in the best sense of the word and I guess the highlight of the whole pilgrimage was a meeting with with the Holy Father actually shook his hand and what do you think of John Paul well I'll tell you what I thought about you know leading up to the moment I was thinking you know he's an interesting historical figure and bah-bah-bah I broke down in tears just just absolutely devastated me and you know we talked about the authority issue and and and again I had already come to seriously doubt the issue of Sola scriptura well then I met the Holy Father who is all that and and what he represented in the history that he represented and the chair of Peter and it was it was a significant hit for me as a as a Protestant I the issue though was that I was getting married in six months and in it you know I'm trying to juggle all this you know these changes I'm did you discuss with her any of these changes that you were doing my wife who's the most godly woman I've ever known the most godly person I've ever known was was willing to work with me she actually came into the church a year after I did for all the right reasons because she was committed and and and convicted by the Holy Spirit not because her husband did my wife thinks for herself thank God so although there were times in that year were I mean I was going to we were going to Mass on Saturday night and Presbyterian Church on Sunday morning where I certainly wanted her hurry up and you know move in but that was that was my will she was willing to work with them but you know it's preparing to be married to this man who's been telling you you're going to be a you know a minister's wife and you're gonna work on the church and all of a sudden he's saying well I don't think I'm even going to be Protestant let alone work in the church and and it's you know it was it was a lot for us and but again she's a woman of great faith and we did a lot of talking and how did the people around you also responded yeah I would say that the response was mixed at best a lot of loved ones struggled with the decision and I think in hindsight it was really not so much about the theology as it was about maybe expectations for me and and and also I think maybe feeling like their world had been shaking a little bit because if somebody leaves what you're a part of then you have to take a closer look at why you're a part of a church that has protested for 500 years but the Catholic Church stands for and it's it's it is a it is a statement about where the truth lies and again I wasn't making judgments on their souls I I was just simply making a signal about where I felt God had called me to go but because of the marriage coming up I kind of tried to do the closet Catholic thing for a while in fact I even had a minister say to me look you don't have to really become Catholic just just you know stay in the Presbyterian thing and do the Catholic thing on the side you know behind closed doors you know in secret and of course that didn't last but I the final kind of shove from me was a dream I had it was a life dream and you have maybe one of these in a lifetime and you know it's unique because the imagery is different that the the symbols are different the colors were there everything is different and I can tell you exactly every last detail of that dream and it was 12 years ago yes sure I I was it was I was hovering over the water it was the ocean out in the deep which makes a lot of sense now and I was hovering over a ship that was being buffeted and and there was a horrendous storm that was raging all around the ship the skies were black torrential downpour waves pounding the sides of the ship this is like a little clipper ship and there was a imping arm in the middle of the of the ship and it would swing out into the water and scoop up water and as I look closer there were people in the water drowning and the arm would pull the people back on board and and dump them and then swing back out into the water and pick up the drowning people and put them back on board saving people and it's hard to even talk about now is it's that powerful for me but the one sentence was this is the Catholic Church this is the Catholic Church and so I stopped fighting it and those are all traditional images of the Catholic Church there yep well I know that Don Bosco's dream right there he's given that too yeah I mean those are confirmations you see and also john paul to use that image put it on the deeper you know everybody John Paul's theme so I not not long after that I dropped out of the ordination process and and just on this last Saturday celebrated my 11th year in the Catholic Chur right so welcome home before we take a break a couple minutes explain now from a Catholic perspective because if you were talking to a non Catholic what do we understand what the word believe' means that's a big subject but givers that well belief is an ongoing process I mean I I tell people that belief for me of course you can't separate it from Jesus and and why I became Catholic fundamentally was because I love Jesus so much I wanted to be as close to him as I possibly could and and when I think of belief I think of an of an ever growing trust and in order to to grow and trust there has to be an ongoing an ongoing journey an ongoing dialogue there has to be support because you can't obviously you can't do it alone we understand as Catholics and I think this is also unique to Catholicism we understand that you're saved in community you're not saved in isolation that's why it's important that we go to Mass on Sunday it's not just hers either Eucharist of course that's the essential the central part but but because we celebrate in a community the Gospel message wasn't brought to us in isolation people didn't come alongside us and disciple us you know that that happened people brought people were brought into our lives by God we didn't just kind of get discipled by ourselves and and we continue to be shepherded and encouraged I mean I think of the the beautiful Catholic Christian community that the Lord has brought into my life in my wife's life and my children's lives most recently the last couple years we've been come very close to the Carmelites of the most sacred heart of Los Angeles very joyful beautiful community of Carmelite nuns who again you can't grow in believing alone you need that support I mean you need you need to be practicing the sacraments you need to be fed by the Eucharist and healed in the sacrum of reconciliation you need to have the teaching church guiding you all of these different resources that are brought into that picture of what it means to believe that is it for me it's just so much bigger than the Protestant church it's the full symphony as opposed to a couple of brass players and an ax and a strings guy cymbal crash right and a guy on the drums in the back I mean you've got the whole symphony and I've used that image of the turning and I've always liked that and I sometimes think of it as like a gauge that's right you know a 10 and you know that needle can go up and then they go back down yeah you know and it's kind of maybe temperature gauge you know hot coal but but our goal in life is by God's grace that that arrow will be pointing right straight at Jesus right that's right without distraction right and we're going to have those this side of heaven right but that conversion that believing is is really believing in Jesus and we see that I mean isn't it true that sadly one of the babies that was thrown out with the Reformation it was the mystical theology that's right and you know Jonathan cross Teresa of ávila which came right after the Reformation all wonderful well that in that in that intimate I mean you speak about the Carmelites that intimate partnering with God in growing and belief that you're not just sitting there kind of waiting for him to do all the work and yet at the same time they're not having to do all the work alone it's that partnering again with God with the community that he gives you to support you so okay we're going to take a break first thing though when we get back is I want you to tell us a little bit about this book that you just wrote hidden graces but particularly how that illustrates again how you've grown yes in your faith as a Catholic and then we'll be back for your phone calls and emails to see it welcome back to the journey home our guest this evening is dr. Ross Porter he's shared with us his journey of faith it's hard to condense a journey into about 15 20 minutes it's almost impossible there's so many questions I'd like to ask about you know how did you deal with this doctrine or this issue maybe though they'll come up in the phone calls but before we go we've got at least a couple of emails waiting and I think a couple callers I want to jump in just question about this book hidden Grace's in fact there's on the cover that the picture your says my John Michael our John Michael right that's Michael and John John Michael John Michael and Don syndrome he is he's our miracle baby we John Michael was born 11 days after I defended my dissertation and he was baptized at nine hours old we thought he was going to die we thought that was the one thing we could do before he went home to his father and at the end of May you'll celebrate his ninth birthday music he's our miracle baby specifically because of our theme how does this an example of what you've come to discover about believing you know what the whole idea of suffering from me makes so much more sense as a Catholic I think as a Protestant I don't know if this was your experience as a Protestant I didn't see suffering embraced in the same way it's not there was necessarily denied but that it wasn't integrated into our theology as well there were lots of attempts right but you know but you know when you read you know Paul's second letter to the Corinthians for instance when he talks about you know if we suffered for your salvation we share in Christ you know suffering so we can share in his glory and and I don't know how well I would have done with John Michael and his birth as a Protestant I mean I God is so good in so many ways but not the least of which is that he brought me into the church and and gave me a chance to really enjoy that for a while I get and really get situated before John Michaels birth and he was born in May of 1994 and he was another conversion for me basically I mean another turning point another deepening in belief and trust in God that you know God basically asked me to trust him with my son we Jenny and I were okay with John Michael being Down syndrome there was there was there was never any question that he was that just as valuable if he had been born without Down syndrome the sanctity of life I mean and that God doesn't make mistakes John Michael was born exactly the way he was meant to be born but what scared me was that he was going to die and and that was where the suffering came for me that at three days old he had his first heart procedure at two-and-a-half months old he had his first open-heart surgery he had another open heart surgery at two years old two months before our second son was born just it was it was frightening beyond words for me you know I'd read passages in the Bible Abraham and Isaac and I and I'd read you know Jesus and the Cross speaking to his father and I think oh my god are you are you going to ask me to go there and and I just had to at the end there is no way around it I had to just head into it and thank God I had my wife we had the support of our Catholic Christian community Jesus was never closer to us of course but it's also important when we understand again our from our Catholic understanding of theology mystical theology that John the cross and Teresa of Avila and Gary Gulag ron's have all talked about that a dark time before of a conversion yeah like God pulls away a bit yeah and for me it was a very powerful to understand not just that God was deepening my life my faith existence and my wives but that he was using our suffering that there was there it was it was it was meaningful to other people's lives that it wasn't just our private suffering that that somehow we were joining with a community seen and unseen which is scriptural which is a grace for all the 1300 but did you ever hear that in the Protestant world not not as much in relation to suffering and I will say I mean I I'm not you know we're not here to point fingers at our pride and brothers and sisters but looking back as a pastor I just feel that when I got in the pulpit and preached about the meaning of suffering that I was doing so with real strong foundation and that it could be used intercessor ly that it could be used to change lives that maybe you don't even you you would never even meet but that it was meaningful not just for us but for people around us all right very good we have our first caller Linda from Missouri I think that's Missouri what's your question for us tonight Linda mr. Kodai thank you your program all these broadens my spiritual horizons dr. Pollard it's my third understanding that John Calvin taught predestination that people were saved or damned without any action on their own well was that true and and has through the centuries that been modified somewhat in the Presbyterian Church and a PS how did the Presbyterians a candidate for the ministry get to meet a Benedictine monk thank you thank you well the second part is easier to answer than the first part for sure and that was every desperate I mean I met my my Benedictine friend because he was invited to come and speak at my Presbyterian Church to give a weekend what they call the weekend in the world and he came and gave I still remember the title is called soundings soundings in the in the letters to the Corinthians and spoke about suffering among other things and he and I struck up a friendship and I went up to st. Andrews Abbey and again it felt like I was coming home and I'd never been to the place before went on the on the feast day of st. John the Baptist which was pretty pretty powerful no now the easy question I predestination is still taught certainly in the more Calvinistic Presbyterian churches I think it's such a difficult it's such a difficult bit of theology to try and explain to people that it's it's typically minimized and not really certainly not taught from the public because which Presbyterian group you would yeah you know there there are right I mean there are some Presbyterian churches that are very Calvinistic and and and some that are less my experience was was more in the less Calvinistic traditions certainly if you got into like that the Reformed churches the Christian Reformed Church for instance I mean you would you would find a much stronger version of Calvinism but it's but it's it's such an unattractive theology at such an unmerciful theology it was it was done with the sincere motive yes and would you agree with this that that often the difference between we might say a Protestant way of looking at let's say a president Presbyterian way versus the Catholic way is that is that we Catholics can be comfortable with the both hand were Presbyterians particularly we weren't comfortable with the both and it was either this or this and so because we there couldn't be in grey areas there's no gray area and especially in in strong Calvinism when it came to God's sovereignty versus man's freedom right we leaned all our weight on God's sovereignty and our depravity so when you start going with predestination you hit by that you have to go all the way out to the end well and and then it just it just totally guts any effort at spiritual development really because if there is no free will that's involved then there can be no real cooperation with God's grace God's doing all the work we're all basically puppets pushed when it's extreme and how do you grow in holiness how do you grow in the virtues if there's no cooperation on a human level yeah even even a little bit yeah and they were together as you said there's different Presbyterian perspectives I even Calvin had some different ideas on that trying to fine-tune it because you push it so far and you recognize wait a second there's something missing here we've got a soften it a little bit but I did always find it a bit comical I think this is historically true is that Presbyterians took a long time to put out missionaries the Baptist pretty much that's exactly right but the took a long time finally we had an iron Judson and one of those was first I think he was Baptist but with the presidents a long time because well if God's gonna convert them you'll do it right right you know which again I mean talk about spiritual development it also goes to heart responsibility as Christians what are we responsible for if God's doing all the work doesn't leave us with much responsibility doesn't we just hope that I guess when it the coin got flipped we were heads and not tails yeah let's take this email from Chris Morales in Staten Island New York dear Marcus and dr. Porter by the word belief do we mean trust in the person of Jesus or hope in his promises I suppose another way belief is used is regarding their articles of faith do these elements figure into your guests belief are there other elements of belief that helped his journey into the Catholic Church a lot of things in there about the issue of trust versus do they mean trust in the person of Christ or hope in its promises oh I would say both and for me it's got a belief I think belief starts on a cognitive level but but it has to move beyond that and especially if you're moving toward greater and greater trust you know the believing lord I believe help my unbelief you know that there's that ongoing process of deepening your belief and and certainly it has to be it has to be existential it has to be more than just cognitive it has to include hope and it has to include your emotions and it has to include your very being to be real lived you know not just kind of theorized about alright great let's see if we got a phone call or email wait here's an email let's see they're jumping around trying to get one here I don't know if your screen at home has it might have a little dog floating around on this do email program they're using I don't know if you've seen it at home he was scratching himself a little while later instead of police all right let's see this one says to start I have to first explain that I have a Protestant convert into the Catholic Church as of this past Easter welcome home wonderful my father was taught and believed that the Catholic Church was destructive to the relationship with Christ my question is how as a new convert to the Catholic Church can I deal with my father's attitude toward my new belief of the Catholic faith is there any way I can help him understand that there is no way it is destructive to my relationship with Christ I am trying to mend the relationships and things have changed drastically between us since my decision thank you for any advice or feedback you can give me complex let me say right off the bat that that's not an uncommon experience for so many of us that have come into the church absolutely and I learned the hard way I mean I think I tried to overpower people and tried to you know you know the apologetics you know you know pounding them into the ground and I realized fairly quickly that the best way to speak to somebody about who Jesus Christ means to you and what it means to be a Catholic Christian is to is to live your faith and to model the fruits of the spirit love joy peace patience kindness goodness gentleness faithfulness self-control that if you can model that for people it's going to be very hard for them to to to somehow argue you're falling out of relationship with Jesus I mean if the fruits of the spirit are there and you're modeling them st. Francis says you know preach the gospel and if mess if necessary use words it's that idea I know that you live that and don't stop praying because because the Holy Spirit can intervene and God can move in ways that obviously we can't even imagine you know in fact when I think about all the folks that have been on the journey home program in those six years we've been wonderful interview it week after week Congress and people coming back to the church but amazes me is that in every story often that moment that event that awakened a person to the truth of the Catholic Church was a serendipitous work of grace hmm you know the fact that you met this Carmelite president Benedict Benedict Carmelites now yeah but the you know that the the encounter there your opportunity to go to Rome or the different things or that that particular statement in that theology class in a way that you weren't able to respond to that right I mean there always a ser different work grace which is a result prayer God we live in a providential universe God is always caring for us and he's always opening doors for us and he's always trying to care you know in new ways and and our challenges to is to try and and stay open to that to stay prayerful and to be attentive because he's he never stops loving us and he never stops trying to love us into a deeper and deeper relationship with him yeah let's grab this next email this is Nick Bart is there it seems there is a prevalent thought in our Catholic Church membership that it really does not matter what denomination one attends as long as you believe in Jesus Christ please come to know Thank You Nick well it it obviously meant something to me I it would have been much easier for me to stay Presbyterian you know in the short run now in the eternal scheme of things obviously it would not have been easier but in the short run it was very comfortable in the Presbyterian Church there were good people good Christian people but we as Catholics are called to holiness all Christians are called to holiness and and my deep conviction as a Catholic is that really the only way to to take that seriously most seriously is is to become Catholic because it's in the Catholic Church that the full deposit of the faith exists and that's not to say again that there can't be you know authentic Christian faith outside of the Catholic Church but the full deposit lies only in the Catholic Church and again to go back to the mountain metaphor that you know this is a this is a long track and holiness you know to actually be able to practice virtues and even hope to acquire virtue in time virtues to grow in holiness it's it's it's very serious business and it's very hard work and we need all the help we can get and the sacraments the teaching Church the communion of saints they're there and this issue of what is true how do we know what is true if we're gonna stand before God and be confident that what we are believing in teaching is true then we trust the church that Jesus established right you know and and that is so important we have another caller hello Pat from Missouri Ella what's your question for us tonight I've been a lifelong Catholic but I'm married to a loop and we've been married 30 years and I'm wondering I heard him mention you know going to church with his wife before she was the Catholic but is it good that you know for me to go to the Lutheran Church sometimes you know with him try to attend as often as I could with him too you know I would love for him to convert to Catholicism but I'm wondering if would be good for me to be open to what he's you know believing - all right thank you is he she gone yes I was going to ask if she if he was attending Mass with her also oh I didn't know if it was it was both and yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily be encouraging her to just be going to the Lutheran Church with him that he wasn't also willing to meet her halfway and the reason you're encouraging her is not so that she can compare no you know or kind of find a halfway no it's more out of charity and love charity and again modeling what her Catholic faith means to her even to the point where she's willing to go now obviously she's not she's not going to be practicing a Lutheran faith she's practicing her Catholic faith but she'd be with her husband as he attended but and I guess I'm putting my psychology cap on at this point but but I would like to see a collaborative effort there that that he's also going to mass with her and that there's a dialogue that's going on this isn't just alright let's go to the Lutheran Church and about your Catholic faith you know that that earlier Chintu that issue like that question we had about it doesn't matter what denomination wanted you know the sad thing is that we do live in a country that this indifferent ism is everywhere when you even said you had a priest to tell you that doesn't matter anymore that sadly that that the Pope had some pretty strong words about that in the last few weeks Denis oh yeah I mean it's you know in his Dominus Jesu this is the letter on that and the other thing that's become very very rampant in the last century and into this century is this hyper tolerance it's become like the modern dogma and so this this hyper political correctness tolerance makes it difficult for us Catholics to say well wait a sec this is the church that Jesus established and this is the church we ought to be a part of it and it doesn't make us perfect right it's a church of sinners but it is the church and so we do have to take a stand on them we do with charity absolutely yeah absolutely I think they're working on another email I thought I saw one here that dog is up there looking at me on the email page maybe they haven't found one yet could I make a quick yes benedict humanism and this came up from a friend of mine who's a rabbi you know the shofar that the Jews blow that the prayer horn they blow to call people to prayer he said that the most that the only meaningful sound is made if you blow from the narrow end out the idea being that if we want to enter into a chemical dialogue we need to start with where we're at and get broader you know to dialogue with with other folks but but the essentials of our faith are where we need to start and that and that has to be where the where the noise is begins and of course you're willing to dialogue with a broad audience but but you're not gonna make a meaningful sound if you don't start at the narrow end first it's because you believe that all truth that's yes of God right and so the reason that we can be in agreement with someone that doesn't believe the exact same way we do is because what we do believe in come that's right his truth that's right all right and then it's from God we do have another email let's try this over the last couple minutes here dr. Porter said that his father was a Christian Scientist who became a Christian our Christian Science not Christians I am NOT going to judge all Christian Scientists certainly my father was was not raised with an understanding of who Jesus was so we just say that for me that would would not put him in a Christian category if you were to put Jesus is not just one among many teachers you know Jesus is not a way he is the way you know and and and anybody Christian Scientist or otherwise who talks about Jesus being a way but not the way a teacher but not the teacher I would be nervous yeah they Trinitarian no I don't think no so there's a lot of you to line up there their beliefs and Catholic beliefs or even just general Christian beliefs they would be a lot like Isis that's right that's right especially when it comes to faith and healing right now when you look at your Catholic faith now how is becoming a Catholic strengthen your faith in Christ brought you closer to Christ in every way I you're the beautiful thing about about my Catholic my Catholic faith and they can the Catholic Church it's it's unfathomable I mean it's always growing and so how has it made a difference in my life how am i a better person because but this side of heaven God willing I'll never plumb the depths completely there are always riches that are there being discovered I mean and again it's one of those it's one of the beauties of our of our faith that you know we have we have so much to rely on so many resources to support us I can't remember I can't remember back when I you know fundamentally I can't remember back when I was in Catholic that's how that's how powerfully it's taken over my whole life you remember a book that came out I have must been 20 years ago but we were in seminary about the same time celebration of discipline yes interesting book I can't remember which particular Protestant domination they the author was richard Foster was from but he wrote this book about about fasting and prayer and and spirituality but he wrote it as if there was this big discovery and put it a lot of Catholics yeah and we were we're reading this book like wow where did it come from you know and then we become Catholics and realize oh wait a second this has been around for 2,000 yeah right so look at the bibliography at the in the back of our Catholic spirituality bringing us closer to Christ I mean the idea that to ask a Catholic do you have Jesus your personal Savior well of course we do right and to know Jesus personally right is what Catholic theology and growing in union with him is all absolutely so what a great blessing has it become Catholic now thank you for joining thank you much appreciate it it's great lesson and again I'll encourage the audience I think your website dr. Ross Porter com.com is going to be listed if you want to find out more information about dr. Porter's work in his books encourage you to go there I was thinking about this issue of belief and I remember a story it's probably been told a bazillion times and I'm sure I won't tell it correct because I'm doing it by memory but apparently 100 or so years ago back when people used to do things like walk on tightropes across ravines apparently this is a true story that there was a tightrope walker that used to walk across the Niagara Falls and he would put the cable one end to the other and he would walk across with the pole and get to the other side in it one particular incidence there was a newspaper reporter to come up from New York and was so impressed and flabbergasted you know and amazed when he made it he believed so strongly in this tightrope walkers abilities that when the the man made it to decide the the newspaper reporter showered him with praises and and for being such a great tightrope walker and said he could believe that that he could do it anytime and the tightrope walker and worked i'm saying that went to the report and so you really believe i can do that then the guy said oh yes I've seen you did I have no no doubt that you can do that and he says well you think I could push a wheelbarrow across and the report is on completely believe you can do it these would get into wheelbarrow and let's go and the point is that's believing it's one thing to say oh yeah I believe in God but are you willing to get in the wheelbarrow that's giving your life to Jesus and trusting him no matter what the wall the waters like around you the suffering that comes in your life is trusting that you are in his hands and that again we talked about this issue of both and God's sovereignty and our freedom to respond that talks about the grace that he gives us so that we are in partnership with him because believing is a step-by-step walk with Jesus he said follow me and that means imitating him and grace and those are the beauties of things that we've discovered in this wonderful church so god bless you and I'll see you again next week on the journey you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 25,652

Rating: 4.8490567 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Presbyterianism (Religion), Pastor

Id: Winl1YaSafA

Length: 55min 54sec (3354 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 24 2014