Dr. Michael Heiser | What Does 'Judge Not, Lest Ye Be Judged' Really Mean? | CT 055

[Music] judge not lest ye be judged you know that means that you can judge any Christian for any harsh amount of crime that you want but you don't have to apply any of that to yourself isn't that interesting because that's why we're Christians absolutely false and here to prove why our guest dr. Mike Eliezer how're you doing Mike good good I was before you said that well our audience is probably used to that kind of humor by now I did tell Donna that she should be quiet on one episode she's a woman because I and I'm a Christian and so it was my duty and of course we welcome Donna Howell back to the panel are you doing Donna good good I don't agree with a word that you said on the intro but let's roll well it's funny because a lot of Christians you know most christians hearing that would disagree with it but a lot of them act as if they agree with that a lot of them act like it's perfectly fine to throw insults in hatred especially online in in comment sections to throw all sorts a manner of accusations and hatred and stuff at fellow brothers and sisters just because they have a deliberate belief than you they might not even be doing anything wrong but just that they have a different belief on I don't know the rapture or the shape of the earth or something than that that is a crime warranting of all this hatred and it's just a weird phenomenon that I don't I don't see a whole lot of that face to face but I get it a lot online I see it a lot online yeah well growing up I had the the other abuse of that verse which was all of my you know friends wanted to live very loosely and do very and not biblical things and then anytime you say anything about that it's judge not lest you be judged or if like a friend of theirs you know where's going totally you know jumping off the cliff of logic where where where the scripture is involved judge not lest you be judged I don't think anybody really knows what that verse means in proper context anymore there's two crazy extremes either you can't say anything to anybody or you gotta say everything to everybody obligated to you you're not living in a Christian life how do we deal with this verse I well my profound advice would be just to read the whole passage like read the firt instead of reading just verse one or remembering part of verse one this is Matthew 7 you know judge not that you be not judged that's Matthew 7 1 we might want to read what follows right because I think if we do it does clarify both of those extremes you know so let's just read it judge not that you be not judged for with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged and with the measure you use it it will be measured to you why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye but do not notice the log that is in your own eye or how can you say to your brother let me take the speck out of your eye when there's a log in your own eye you hypocrite first take the log out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye mm-hmm so you notice that the the passage actually ends with taking that speck out of your brother's eye but only after you first address what you're doing so if if you're guilty of the same things that you're passing judgment on others for that's what Jesus is objecting to right if you're not guilty of those things or again you've dealt with those things then Jesus says yes you you should judge you know this other person because it's it's helping them you're taking the same speck you're using you you're dealing with the same problem and you see in someone else that you already dealt in your own life right so it's to help them not throw hey try to make yourself look more spiritual exactly it's out of love yeah and the the Synoptics I think it's Luke you know the parallel passage there the wording there is something like you know judge righteously or judge righteous judgment mm-hm in other words you you you do have the freedom and not only the freedom but in some sense the obligation to you know go to people you know whether it's a brother or you know somebody who's you know you know sort of outside the faith and help them because that that's doing what needs to be done right for the right reasons so it's a righteous judgment mm-hm and you're judging correctly but if you're guilty of the same things and you refuse you know to address those things in your own life you're hypocrite right your and and it's very clear but you know in our culture today it's like you like you were saying Donna it's like well you can't say anything about anything you know because people if there's one Bible verse that like everybody in the world knows it's this one yeah because it's so convenient for you for them to say you know throw your faith back at you to say get off my back mmm it's very useful to them but it's just a shame and you know that there's something else about this too and I see this a lot online is they people who want to cast judgment against other Christians because you know a different the restoration alas pecked of it it's not to restore anything it's not to help them with what they think is you know they're bad theology or to get them out of some kind of sin or anything it's to show that no I'm smart I know more than you you should shut up because clearly the Bible says this thing you know what it plug in whatever pet theory somebody has yeah there's the whole point of judgment between believers it isn't it to restore each other to help us get our life back on track out of out of love not out of hatred and spite yeah I mean to use the Old Testament metaphor I think it's ironing sharpening iron yes yeah you know that that that should be the intent that you're going to a brother in this case we'll talk about within the Christian community and your goal is again to help them be more conformed to the image of Jesus you know that maybe that you see them going down the wrong path you know it's something that you know is going to be self-destructive I mean the motives should be I'm here to help you help rescue you from something you're doing that's either going to destroy you or destroy somebody close to you mm-hmm you know or is it's really gonna if you persisted this year you're going to be a terrible testimony to somebody maybe that you're trying to win over you know to the faith so that those are all good motives yeah and they're they're quite different than I know more than you do right you know let me let me abused you of your ignorance that sort of thing and and I mean we're online a lot you know all of us and so you kind of you run into this online where you can easily tell the difference between somebody who sincerely wants information and people who don't want information at all they just want to berate you for something yeah and that and I think we need to make the same kind of distinction when it comes to you know judging the the way we talk to other people letting them know that you know look I'm in your corner here and this isn't about me being right and you being wrong or something like that but I you know I had to deal with this especially if you've seen this kind of thing whatever it is run its course in your own life or in somebody else's life this is going to be harmful it's going to be self-destructive it's going to be you know contrary or the witness that you want to have you're going to undermine yourself I mean these are all restorative redemptive you know sort of approaches as opposed to I'm just more spiritual than you are and I thought you should know right you know and again you get into conversation with people and the difference it doesn't take too long you know for the difference to sort of become a parent yeah you know that somebody has the gift of criticism and that that's just right yeah yeah and it's I think the Internet makes it too easy also I rarely get anybody at a conference that will talk to a in the same way in person that they will online I mean it happens but it's really really rare online no I you know I think it gives people some I think it gives people a mask really and there was a famous quote and I forget who said it but basically if you want the truth out of somebody give them a mask it takes away their personal responsibility to be held accountable for the things that they've said the Internet does that is the exact opposite of what Matthew 7 says right you should first first of all you should be held accountable in your own life you know your own conscience your own walk with the Lord and then when you've dealt with the ways that you come short mm-hmm then you can help somebody else yeah so yeah again I'm not a big fan of so the media for that reason but it does help people distort and really sort of invert mmm you know what's actually here in this passage yeah definitely yeah and and I I think that you know personally when it says that we're you know we're gonna have to give account for every lofty word or however it's worded I think that includes what we write to I don't think that only includes what we say and I think that that gets kind of lost on people because the internet kind of puts on social media really puts on this illusion that whatever happens in social media isn't real you know you're not really talking to a person it's just a name or it's just the word or it's just a picture that you're talking to but I actually think that that's the place where you really get a real sense of what is inside of people's hearts you know in day to day life people will suppress it because just in all honesty most people who engage in that online are cowards and they're not gonna do it in person because they're gonna be held accountable for their actions you know I don't know about you guys but you know I've sort of had to learn this the hard way where in the old days you know I used to get you know let's be honest I used to get these ridiculous emails or I'd hear you know things you know you said about me on on the show or something like that and your first inclination is basically to you know make that person look awfully stupid you know it is colorful away as you possibly can and you know I I can be good at that mm-hm you know and there there were times you know when I you know what when after you know somebody online you know this is like 15 years ago and yes you know I smashed that person and and it felt good at the moment but then it might be a week later and it might be a year later you just wonder but that really was kind of productive because I'll never have a conversation with that person again yeah you know and you know I have since when I get emails now that you know again I can tell you five words in you know does this person want information or is it just to tell me that I'm a schmuck I'm just not going to get into it with them because if they don't want information there's really not a whole lot you can do that's right I usually give a person like one chance or in some cases I just I just know it's going to be useless and I'll delete the email mm-hmm but I'm trying to there was one I got a few days ago where this person basically was you know berating me for for being a Christian and and you know I'm on I'm on to this he was an ancient aliens believer okay and so I don't I don't worship reptilians anymore or like Jesus or just just a lot of just nonsense okay and so it's like I wrote the person and said well you know first of all you should realize that if you look in in the primary sources that can he inform tablets literally not a word of what you just said is in there mmm-hmm I said but you sounded me like somebody who's been spiritually abused by the church I don't have any I don't have any doubt of that I've seen that happen a lot and I wish that hadn't happened but what you might want to do is you might want to ignore institutional authority mm-hmm okay just don't worry about what what Christian institutions and authority figures say and go back to the primary sources yourself mm-hmm rethink it for yourself so I that that was that you know if I'd have gotten basically a resend to the first email that I would have just gone you know that's what that's what filters are for right you know because that a person is just not teachable but you know I didn't get anything back so maybe it did some good but in the old days I would have just I would have just tried to destroy that person right and then he never would've listened to anything which is really it's really the wrong thing to do because it would have only supported his already you know presupposed opinion that christians are mean and hateful and spiteful and yeah i kind of you know recognize that a decade or so ago that maybe a little less but i used to be one of those people online who would you know just basically be a jerk and stuff and it was because I thought I knew I thought all the beliefs that I had at the time were correct I was I was raised in a certain environment that promoted that that kind of thinking and anybody who disagreed me while clearly they're not really a Christian or they're severely stupid and they they're they're gay there are the ones that are giving Christianity a bad name and so I would I would go online and and openly in you know publicly this was back when like myspace was the thing and you know mm-hm so just ancient long time ago Fred flee oh love that stuff has been since deleted but I hope I hope yeah because I heard myspace made a resurgence a couple years ago so we'll see but but you know I used to I used to be one of those until God got a hold of me and showed me that that is just such a stupid way to interact with people because if I really thought that they were wrong and I really thought that they were in trouble because of their beliefs why am i doing the one thing that is gonna guarantee they're not gonna listen to a word I have to say and what and I and I really realized it was a pride problem it wasn't because I care I didn't care anything about them I cared about me and I cared about you know me wanting to be seen as right and correct and valuable and you know all this stuff so you know it took a while to kind of get through that I've talked about that on this show plenty of times and have you even done a couple presentations at conferences about that but I think that a lot of create a lot of Christians online I think it's really a minority of Christians that actually do this but it seems like a majority because most Christians don't want to argue and they'll stay out of the conversation I think conversation is really important and it's it's good to hold on to the beliefs that we have and it's good to know how to defend them but at the same time I think it's good to be a little bit more open and hear what the other side has to say too typically think of the word judge that associated in the same sentence with restoration but actually that's a very very cool way to think of it they you know don't judge in in in the following ways and then he gives us the rules and by the way I have to say I I've had conversations with friends of mine before who are like when was Jesus sarcastic because my whole thing is I'm so sorry and I'll drop these one-liners that are just ridiculous and my friends are like hell that wasn't a christ-like thing to say and they're being sarcastic and I'm like well you know and so we go back and forth and so in case anybody's wondering whether or not Jesus was ever sarcastic the log in the eye that's one example John 10 is a great example to where he says the Jews picked up stones again to stone him and jesus answered them this is John 10:31 32 jesus answered them I've shown you many good works from the Father for which of them are you going to stone me really sarcastic yeah let me see was at the time I healed what's the time I fed the five that is really going after it yeah of course they get met it's not for a good work we're gonna stone you but for blasphemy oh I just you know I misunderstood Jesus does that on a few occasions where you know it's just if it would be hard to be in the crowd and not just know but I love I love love his sarcasm there and I love the fact that actually until you had pointed it out Mike I hadn't really completely connected that the judgment there could be restorative I mean I I guess in the back of my mind I knew that I definitely did have a closer understanding to what that first means then you know my friends growing up did but I'm I didn't until today think of the restorative nature or element of that first think of the woman at the well okay they mean the only people Jesus really goes after are the hypocrites the ones who don't do or will not do what he's advocating in Matthew 7 mmm-hmm you know you addressed the speck in your own eye first you know but he goes to people like the woman at the well like sinners and he tells her the truth about herself he judges her mm-hmm but but somehow she she parses the conversation as something wonderful because what does she do she goes out and tells all her friends like I had this great car you told me I was an adulterer [Laughter] [Applause] the guy I'm living with now isn't my husband either he tells her these things very bluntly mm-hmm but somehow she also gets the impression that he's like in her corner too like he wants to help so Jesus had this knack of telling people the truth about themselves but also not letting them leave the conversation thinking he didn't love them right which is really hard to do but he pulls that off mm-hmm you know like like why else would you come back I brought my friends dude I loved you in the in that story you know if you only knew yeah who you were speaking to because in that moment Christ could have okay hang on let's address the mountain we're supposed to be worshipping on and and whether or not you can say Yahweh out loud let me give you the grocery list of how wrong you really he does like you say he does pronounce a certain element of judgment that is presence in the story but then there's this moment where it switches over to if you only knew who we're talking to all of these what mountain do we worship on things that you're concerned about are this big compared to who you're talking to she knows that he's a Jew he's not really supposed to be talking to her right you know and that alone you know his willingness to or asking for a drink right which would be totally ceremoniously unclean yes she's like she's drawn in and he's not running away but yet he's honest with her and again you know he's he's having a he's not dismissive and he's not judgmental in a in a sort of accusatory way he's telling her the truth and and what it really comes down to is you know do you value the person that you're judging do you value them enough to think of it in these terms that I think highly enough of this person that they deserve to be told the truth right you know because you could just walk away and let them you know be miserable or let them destroy themselves I mean is that a high view of that person well how could be mm-hmm yes so you're not really doing anybody a favor in fact you're you're really you're actually hating on a person if you don't try to correct them but it's all about motive you know the restoration idea yeah and I think if it's if it is genuine if it is done out of love and genuine concern that'll that'll that'll come through and I think people would be more receptive to that I mean I think about all the times in in my life where God has sent people to you know correct one thing or another in various ways and it's only been just the people who actually you know like family or friends who are genuinely concerned or doing it out of love or obedience to God or whatever those are the only times that I've actually listened to anybody if it's just because they get to tell me wow what another wrong thing that you know young teenage Josh is doing then I just I got so numb to it it didn't mean anything to me anymore and it was just like well it's just how it is then so yeah I think that that's obviously a way better approach and you know what I think that's also why there's so much emphasis throughout scripture about how we as Christians need to love one another we just we've done many episodes on that and we just did one not too long ago but we've we've lost that I think in a lot of ways and you know think about it in terms of this with the woman at the well thing you know how often do like a Baptist and a Pentecostal go and have lunch together you know I mean that kind of stuff just in general mainstream Christianity doesn't happen a whole lot when we had Stephen banned cars on he has a Hebrew roots background you have like a Pentecostal background I have a Baptist background and we all had like the time of our lives you know and that I I don't know I think that we've kind of lost that in the church and need to get it back well I mean think about it that's all that Jesus was I mean we made this on that exact episode where we were discussing the three of our backgrounds we made that statement but a Messianic Jew a Pentecostal and a Baptist wouldn't typically be able to get along not for five minutes right I in fact I think we even jokingly said speaking in tongues go yeah on the other hand mmm-hmm at the at the end we we we were discussing that you know a tax-collector fisherman and a zealot would never be able to get along 15 minutes with Jesus and all of a sudden if you only knew you know I love it yeah who he is is so much bigger than these little little little theological beliefs that we have not that doctrine and theology isn't important it is important but when it comes to stuff like you know certain certain prophecy views or the shape of the earth or you know when a certain thing is gonna just all these things that we the the really dumb things that we fight about it's so small compared to who Jesus is and if we're all worshipping Him I mean that should that should take precedence over anything else we've taken the word judge and have made it a pejorative word we've turned it into this ugly thing yeah that you know if I judge a situation that I'm doing something wrong and being better than everybody or or hottie yeah about it or arrogant that you know on the other hand making a judgment is wisdom mm-hmm you know you're stumbling and bumbling throughout everything if you don't make a judgment that's right so thinking in terms of you know being able to make a judgment in a restorative and friendship way that's not being judgmental that's discipleship yeah yeah that's a good point yeah how would you do discipleship without judging anything right you know good good luck with that or without loving the person that your disciple solve that we just won't disciple anyone I think we do a lot of this this negative stuff because we've we've convinced ourselves we have the luxury of doing it mm-hmm you know what again I'm not like hey let's sign up for persecution I'd love that [Laughter] you know I maybe I think a little bit too much maybe I'm in novel no there's something but you know you you think about what could happen in with our culture you know the way it's it's again shifting into this anti-christian posture while that's bad you know one of the good points of it is if if the church ever does you know in the West you know find itself in a position of being persecuted you know and I'm not talking about throwing people in jail or something that's severe but it again monitoring you lose your tax-exempt status you know you you have Christians in the medical field who can't hold a job because they won't do abortions or I mean the list is endless you know of the the crises that can be created by a hostile culture toward a a you know specific group the the flip side of that is I think it would drive us to be thrilled if we ever found other people who were in our corner yeah who shared the same status with us you know that you know we we we knew okay this person is a believer they're persecuted like I am and I'm here to help them they're here to help me we're we're all in the same boat all those things that we again have the luxury or so we think of arguing about they're gonna fall to the periphery yeah yeah a stronger bond yeah yeah so that again I think that I hope it doesn't take that mmm-hmm to do it but I think we're lying to ourselves if we said well if I was in that situation I'd still debate people over which wraps you're positioning I wouldn't take their help unless they were a pre-trib er you know yeah again that's absurd yeah it's absurd and I think we know that mmm-hmm so if God's okay with it then mmm-hmm you know why are we fighting about it now yeah that's a good point you know we need to be able to distinguish the things that are peripheral yes they're interesting they're peripheral they're part of scripture but the Bible doesn't doesn't give us equal clarity on all subjects any things that it gives us complete clarity on like the gospel that ought to you know intuitively inform us that this is the central thing yeah this is the most important thing this is what defines our identity and our mission it's not what view I have of this that of the other thing yeah so I I think we need to remember that before we're forced you know to remember it well it's a really good point and I can't think of a better note to end on if you haven't had a chance to already make sure you subscribe click the bell and if YouTube doesn't notify you just know every every Wednesday morning at 9:00 a.m. you will get a new 9:00 a.m. central you'll get a new episode of chalk talk well Mike thank you so much for doing these episodes with us this has been an absolute blast and again for people out there go ahead and pick up angels by dr. Michael Heizer if you go to sky watch TV store.com right now you'll find a special that's being offered with that and Thank You Donna for being on the panel again it's been a blast yeah absolutely all right well until next time take care and God bless [Music] you

Channel: Chalk Talk

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Keywords: chalk, talk, donna, howell, josh, peck, radicals, multiverse, handmaidens, conspiracy, skywatchtv, tom, horn, justen, wes, faull, michael heiser, dr michael heiser, dr. michael heiser, angels, judge not, lest ye be judged, judge, judged, judge not lest ye be judged, really mean, mean, explained, church, christian, christianity

Id: 8e-d3Gj3pbY

Length: 28min 32sec (1712 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 26 2018