CRIMINAL DIVISION DEPUTY CHIEF. HUGO, SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN THE MAN WAITING IN LINE EVERY SINGLE MORNING AND INSIDE THAT TRIAL, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN WEEK TWO? >> I THINK THE SECOND GAG ORDER HEARING. WE WERE DISCUSSING AFTER THE FIRST GAG ORDER HEARING WHY JUDGE MARCHAND MIGHT HAVE BEEN HOLDING OFF ISSUING AN ORDER OR FINDING TRUMP IN CONTEMPT AND I KIND OF HAVE TO WONDER, AND THE IS THE SAME THOUGHT THAT HAS BEEN PERVASIVE THROUGHOUT TRUMP'S INNER CIRCLE OVER THE WEEKEND IS, IS JUDGE MERSHON WAITING FOR THE WEIGHT OF ALL OF TRUMP'S INFRACTIONS, THE CLEAR VIOLATIONS OF THE GAG ORDER TO STEP UP BEFORE HE HAS DONE A VERY HEAVY PENALTY TO SHOW THAT, LOOK, HE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE OTHER THAN TO FIND A TRUMP IN CONTEMPT AND THAT WILL BE THE THING TO WATCH ON THURSDAY. >> WE EXPECT TO HEAR MORE TOMORROW FROM MICHAEL COLLINS X BANKER. HOW IS THE PROSECUTION TRYING TO TELL THE STORY THROUGH HIM OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE, TRYING TO TIE THAT TO DONALD TRUMP'S INTENT? >> I THINK IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR THIS BANKER TO WALK THROUGH THAT YES, AS DEFENSE SAID, JUST MAKING A HUSH MONEY PAYMENT IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT ILLEGAL. BUT LOOK AT THE WAYS THAT SHOW YOU THAT THEY KNEW THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS. THEY USED A SHELL COMPANY. THEY OPENED UP A SEPARATE BANK ACCOUNT. HE HAD TO, MICHAEL COHEN, OPEN UP A LINE OF CREDIT, GET A MORTGAGE ESSENTIALLY ON HIS HOME BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY, BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP WOULDN'T GIVE HIM THE MONEY AND HE WAS STIFFING TWICE FOR THE OTHER PAYMENTS SO THIS IS THE RESORT THAT MICHAEL COHEN HAD TO GO TO AND THE BANKER IS GOING TO KIND OF WALK-THROUGH THAT YES, WHEN HE WAS OPENING UP THIS ACCOUNT THE BANK DIDN'T DEAL WITH PAYMENTS TO ADULT FILM STARS, FOR EXAMPLE. THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WOULD BE A RED FLAG FOR THE BANK, SO THIS TRANSACTION SETTING UP THE ACCOUNT, USING THE SHELL COMPANY TO MAKE A PAYMENT TO STORMY DANIELS, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT SET OFF THE RED FLAGS. IT WAS SHADY AND EVERYBODY WOULD'VE KNOWN IT AND THE BANK FLAGS IT. >> LET'S TALK ABOUT DEFENDANT DONALD. YOUR COLLEAGUES AT THE POST POINT OUT THAT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, THIS TRIAL HAS TAKEN AWAY DONALD TRUMP'S CONTROL OVER HIS DAILY LIFE, HIS CONFIDENCE. THIS IS A GUY WHO HAS NEVER EVEN WORKED FOR ANYONE ELSE OR BEEN ON ANYONE ELSE'S SCHEDULE. HOW MUCH IS THAT AFFECTING HIM? >> DONALD TRUMP HATES IT, ABSOLUTELY HATES IT. THIS IS A PERSON WHO, WHEN HE WAS THE PRESIDENT, IN HIS FIRST DAYS IN OFFICE, WAS ABLE TO BASICALLY BLOW THROUGH THE NORMS OF HOW A PRESIDENT NORMALLY OPERATES EVERY MORNING. THEY USUALLY HAVE A VERY EARLY SCHEDULE. THEY START A PRESIDENTIAL DAILY BRIEF READING WITH THEIR CIA BRIEFER. PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE DOING THAT, I FEEL LIKE STAYING IN MY ROBE IN MY ROOM FOR A FEW HOURS IN THE MORNING AND CALLING ALL MY FRIENDS AND FINDING OUT HOW I'M DOING POLITICALLY AND WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT WHAT I SAID ON TELEVISION THE OTHER DAY. HE BASICALLY PUT OFF ALL THE BIG RESPONSIBILITIES OF BEING PRESIDENT TO WORK ON THE POLITICAL MACHINATIONS OF VAMPING UP HIS POPULARITY. SO THIS IDEA OF HIM BEING IN A ROOM WHERE HE CANNOT SPEAK OR HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO SPEAK, HE HAS ACTUALLY SPOKEN A FEW TIMES AND GOTTEN SCOLDED BY THE JUDGE FOR MUTTERING UNDER HIS BREATH ABOUT A JUROR, FOR TALKING OUT LOUD AND OUT OF TURN. THE IDEA THAT HE'S NOT ONLY CONSTRAINED TO THIS ROOM AND CONSTRAINED TO THESE RULES, BUT NOT ABLE TO SPEAK UP THE WAY HE'S SO USED TO DOING, AND GETTING FLATTERED EVERY TIME HE DOES, IT'S KIND OF -- IT'S SORT OF SUCKING THE ENERGY OUT OF HIM EVERY DAY, AND MY COLLEAGUES REPORT THAT HE'S IN A HORRIBLE MOOD AND IT'S HARD FOR HIM TO SORT OF DO DONOR EVENTS AFTERWARDS OR TALK STRATEGY AFTER THE SESSIONS IN COURT BECAUSE HE'S JUST SO LIVID. >> CLEVER CARROLL REMEMBERS THAT BACKED DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WHEN ANYONE WOULD SAY UNPRECEDENTED, I WOULD CHARGE THEM TWO DOLLARS, SO THERE SHE IS SAYING BLOWING THROUGH THE NORMS. I SEE YOU, CARROLL, AND I'M STILL CONSIDERING CHARGING TWO BUCKS. I KNOW YOU WERE DOING THERE. IS THE, CAN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT HUGO BROUGHT UP, THIS GAG ORDER RULING? BECAUSE WE'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE, ANOTHER HEARING COMING UP WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE FIRST RULING. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE? >> IT IS VERY CLEAR FROM THE FIRST HEARING THAT DONALD TRUMP IS IN CONTEMPT OF THIS GAG ORDER. WE ALL KNOW THAT. HE IS NOT ONLY POSTING ON TREES SOCIAL, HE'S POSTING ON HIS CAMPAIGN WEBSITE. HE IS FLOUTING THE ORDER OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM AND HE'S TARGETING WITNESSES. HE'S TARGETING JURORS. HE IS -- IT'S A BLATANT. IT'S NOT JUST ONCE, IT'S NOT JUST TWICE. I THINK WE ARE NOW UP TO 13 VIOLATIONS AND IT'S CLEAR THAT THE JUDGE SAID TO DEFENSE COUNSEL, YOU'RE GIVING ME ANYTHING TO WORK WITH YOU, THAT THERE IS ANY AMBIGUITY, THAT THIS IS FAKE. HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING. SO NOW ONCE YOU HAVE THE FACT THAT THIS IS WILLFUL AND HE'S WILLFULLY VIOLATING THE ORDER, IT'S CLEAR THAT HE SHOULD BE HELD IN CONTEMPT. NOW WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT IT? $1000 PER VIOLATION, THAT IS A SLAP ON THE WRIST. >> NOT EVEN A SLAP ON THE WRIST. HE'S GOING TO BLOW HIS NOSE WITH IT. >> IS NOTHING IN THE JUDGE KNOWS IT. I THINK THE REASON IT'S TAKEN SO LONG AS THE JUDGE KNOWS THAT IF HE DOES THAT IT'S SUCH A COPOUT AND EVEN THIS OTHER OPTION, TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME THIRD OPTION THAT'S NOT JAIL IS ALSO A COPOUT. DONALD TRUMP NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL FOR THIS, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. IT'S JUST TOO FLAGRANT. IT'S TOO MANY TIMES IN TOO MANY WAYS TARGETING TOO MANY PEOPLE, NOT JUST THREE DIFFERENT WITNESSES, JURORS MULTIPLE TIMES, BEFORE THEY WERE SEATED AND NOW AFTER THEY WERE SEATED. THE JUDGE HAS A HARD JOB, HE DOES, BUT THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. IT'S CLEAR THAT HE VIOLATED. IT'S CLEAR THAT IT WAS WILLFUL AND YOU'VE GOT TO TREAT HIM THE SAME AS YOU TREAT ANY OTHER CRIMINAL DEFENDANT. ANY OTHER GUY WHO IS OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM, FLOUTING THE ORDER, WOULD'VE BEEN HAULED INTO A JAIL CELL THE NEXT DAY. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. HE HAS TO BE SENTENCED TO JAIL. >> ALL RIGHT THEN. ALL RIGHT, HUGO. CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE HEART OF THIS CASE, THE PAPER TRAIL? ON ONE HAND IT MIGHT BE THE MOST COMPLEX PART FOR THE JURY TO MAKE SENSE OF, UNLIKE A WITNESS ON THE STAND, BUT UNLIKE A WITNESS ON THE STAND, TRUMP CAN'T GO AFTER THEM. TRUMP CAN'T TEASE THEM, TRUMP CAN'T TORMENT THEM. HOW KEY IS THIS AS PART OF THE PROSECUTION STRATEGY, PAPER? >> I THINK IT'S SUPER KEY AND I THINK THE REMARKABLE PART OF THIS CASE IS JUST HOW MUCH OF IT IS ON PAPER. IF WE THINK ABOUT ALL THE INVOICES, IF WE THINK ABOUT HOW THE DA'S OFFICE GOT TO THE 34 COUNTS IN THE FIRST PLACE, IT WAS BASED ON EACH LEDGER ENTRY AND EACH OF THE CHECKS. THAT'S THE HEART OF THIS. ON SOME OF THE PAPERS THAT THE DA HAS MANAGED TO GET INTO EVIDENCE IS TRUMP'S OWN HANDWRITING OR HIS AIDE'S OWN HANDWRITING, AND THAT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO IMPEACH IN TERMS OF CUT ABILITY BECAUSE IT'S THEIR BEFORE YOU. AND I THINK EVEN IF IT'S COMPLICATED AS A CONCEPT TO THINK ABOUT 34 SEPARATE RECEIPTS AND YOU'RE PRESENTED WITH IT, I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR TRUMP'S LAWYERS TO GO, THESE ARE FOR SOMETHING ELSE, THESE ARE RANDOM PAYMENTS FOR OTHER THINGS NOT TO DO WITH THE HUSH MONEY WHEN IT WAS SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS. >> I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE LAST THING YOU SAID, THAT TRUMP IS IN SUCH A FOUL MOOD, HE'S IN NO POSITION TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND DIAL FOUR DOLLARS WITH DONORS OR GO TO CAMPAIGN EVENTS. HOWEVER, THIS WEDNESDAY, WHEN HE HAS THE DAY OFF, HE IS GOING TO GO BACK ON THE TRAIL. HE'S GOING TO MICHIGAN. HE'S GOING TO WISCONSIN. WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS? IS IT BECAUSE HE WAS TAKING SO MUCH HEAT FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN OR BECAUSE HIS OWN ADVISORS ARE REMINDING HIM, YO, YOU'RE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, WE'VE GOT TO GET OUT THERE? >> I THINK IT'S A TWO FOR ANSWER, FORGIVE ME, STEPHANIE, AND I PROMISE NOT TO SAY UNPRECEDENTED. I REALLY DO. BUT IT'S A TWO FOR FOR DONALD. HE'S GOING TO RECONNECT WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BOW DOWN TO HIM AND SAY YOU KNOW YOU'RE KIND OF OUR MESSIAH. WE LOVE YOU, WE LOVE YOU, WE CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING TO YOU. THAT KIND OF FEEDBACK LOOP THAT DONALD TRUMP REALLY FEEDS OFF OF. IT'S IMPORTANT TO HIM. JUST AS EVERY NIGHT WHEN HE'S AT MAR-A-LAGO, AS HE GOES ON TO THE DINING ROOM, PATIO AND THE MEZZANINE, PEOPLE CLAP AS HE ENTERS THE DINING ROOM PATIO. IT'S LIKE -- AND THEY PLAY HAIL TO THE CHIEF. IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIM TO GET THAT KIND OF AFFIRMATION. THAT'S CRITICAL. BUT THE OTHER THING IS HIS CAMPAIGN ADVISORS ARE REMINDING HIM THAT BIDEN IS DOING REALLY WELL WITH A LOT OF -- I'M NOT SAYING HE'S DOING BETTER IN THE POLLS. IT'S A TIGHT, TIGHT RACE BUT HE'S DOING REALLY WELL WITH A BUNCH OF SORT OF STRAFING OF THE MEDIA ENVIRONMENT WITH A BUNCH OF ADS AND THAT IS SOMETHING DONALD TRUMP HAS TO COUNTERACT. HE ALSO HAS A FINANCIAL DEFICIT RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF HIS ABILITY TO GET ON THE AIRWAVES, SO THEY'RE GETTING IN FRONT OF HUMAN BEINGS AND GETTING FREE MEDIA, MEANING US COVERING HIM BEING THERE, IS ALSO REALLY IMPORTANT. >> HUGO, JUST WEEKS BEFORE THE 2020 ELECTION, LINDSEY GRAHAM WENT ON FOX NEWS TO SHOW HIS SUPPORT FOR TRUMP, LOOKED RIGHT IN THE CAMERA AND SAID, LAW AND ORDER IS ON THE BALLOT. THAT WAS IN 2020. I WANT TO SHARE WHAT HE SAID THIS WEEKEND. >> IF HE IS CONVICTED YOU WILL STILL SUPPORT HIM AND VOTE FOR HIM? >> ABSOLUTELY. I THINK WHAT'S GOING ON WITH DONALD TRUMP IS WEAPONIZATION OF THE LAW. HE'S BEING PROSECUTED IN MANHATTAN, ONE OF THE DEEPEST BLUE CITIES IN THE COUNTRY. >> LET ME BE CLEAR. HE'S BEING PROSECUTED IN MANHATTAN BECAUSE IT IS WHERE THE ALLEGED CRIMES HE COMMITTED TOOK PLACE. IT WASN'T SELECTED RANDOMLY BY ANY POLITICAL OPERATIVES. THE GOP CAN'T POSSIBLY BE RUNNING ON LAW AND ORDER AS THEIR MESSAGE NOW, RIGHT? >> I DON'T KNOW, SPEAK TO LINDSEY GRAHAM. I THINK WHAT YOU SAID IS VERY TRUE, WHICH IS HE IS BEING TRIED IN A MANHATTAN COURT BECAUSE HE COMMITTED CRIMES ALLEGEDLY IN MANHATTAN. AND FOR ALL THESE REPUBLICANS WHO FRANKLY COME OUT AND SAY THIS IS SELECTIVE AND VINDICTIVE PROSECUTION, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS GETTING CHARGED IN THAT CASE. IS GETTING CHARGED IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA. THERE WAS A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO MOVE THAT THERE BECAUSE THE TRIAL VENEER WAS DECIDED TO BE THAT SPECIFIC FEDERAL DISTRICT. THEY COULD HAVE CHARGED IT IN DC BUT THEY THOUGHT THE FAIREST THING FROM A JUDICIAL PERSPECTIVE IN THE SPECIAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE AND THE APPELLATE DIVISIONS AT MAIN JUSTICE, TRYING THAT CASE IN THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA. THIS IDEA THAT THERE IS SOME SELECTIVE RANDOM WAY OF CHOOSING OR EVEN VINDICTIVE WAY OF CHOOSING WHERE TO TRY TRUMP IS JUST BIZARRE AND FRANKLY, THE OTHER THING THAT WE SAW WITH THE SUPREME COURT LAST WEEK WAS THAT HE HAS BEEN LET OFF THE HOOK. TRUMP HAS BEEN LET OFF THE HOOK SO MANY TIMES IN ALL OF HIS LEGAL CASES,
