- I'm about to dissect the
case of "Grey's Anatomy". But I think I want to do it, not just medically. We should do it legally. Welcome to the channel, Legal Eagle! (cheers) - Hey, Legal Eagle's! - Bewop! (air whooshing) (loud crash) - Crap. - [Narrator] Doctors
never mean to screw up - Crap, crap, crap, crap.
(machines beeping) - "Crap, crap, crap, crap"
is the last thing you want to hear in a surgical room. - If I saw a transcript that
said "crap, crap, crap." I would see dollar sign,
(Dr. Mike laughs) dollar sign, dollar sign.
(cash register dinging) - It's not like we want to hurt
anyone, but sometimes we do. Sometimes we make mistakes. - And then the lawyers make it right. - I'm looking for Dr. Torres. - Yes. Hi. Great. You're being sued. (both laugh) - Is that how it happens? - Sort of. In a medical malpractice
situation like this, you obviously have to
start the lawsuit somehow. And the way you do that is
called process of service. And if you didn't know
where the person was or where they worked or you didn't know who their lawyer was, then you would have to hire someone called the process server to
actually physically hand you-- - Is that the person that
like throws it at you and says "You got served"? - It can. 'Cause I've seen that in movies. They throw it and it's like, "Oh I got served!" What does that mean? - You need have a competent
adult who was able to verify that this is the
person who is being sued. - So throwing it in a door... - That is not best practices, no. - [Travis] Ready to build me a new hip? - [Man] He needs to be able to do this... see, right there. Can a new hip do that? - More importantly, will he be doing it by December? He's got Olympic qualifiers coming up. - You mentioned a crash last year. - They said it gave me arthritis. - [Man] You can't win
the gold with arthritis. - I want the Peterson hip. - Would one hard crash cause arthritis for the rest of his young career? - It sounds off. The only thing I can imagine is if you have a significant
loss of cartilage or potentially a labral tear, but there's other
procedures that you can go about from an orthopedic standpoint rather than just replacing the hip. Also, what they're asking of the doctors is not practical, at all. To make promises that
he's going to be able to do a move, that promise on recovery time, none of this is ever guaranteed because in medicine you don't
even know what's gonna happen until you open a patient up. Especially in a specific case like this. This is hyper-specific. He's not a run of the mill
joint replacement patient. - It's funny you say that because one of the first
cases you learn about in law school is called Hawkins vs. McGee. You might have heard of it
colloquially 'cause it's called the "hairy hand" case.
- Ooh. - Where in the turn of the century, a doctor had a patient who had a hand condition, I think his hand was burned, and the doctor promised that not only would he have
a fully functional hand but it would be a hundred
percent recovered. - Okay.
- And he had a skin graft. And as a result he was not given the a
hundred percent normal hand but a hand that was functional, but hairy. (Dr. Mike laughs)
And so, the lawsuit was, can you recover damages for the breach of the promise that was given when he was promised a
hundred percent normal hand and given a hairy hand? And the answer is, yes. You have to value whatever
the difference is in money between a normal hand and a hairy hand. - Buddy of mine got this one, he was back on the mountain in no time. This is what I need. - Okay. Even if I did agree that a hip replacement is
the right course of treatment I've never even used the
Peterson resurfacing hip joint. I doubt you or your team
want you to be my first. - Yes! No experience whatsoever. Barreling forward without
doing the research and making specific promises. This is... - A lot of patients in general, treat medicine as if it's
like a shopping thing. "I want X." When in reality sometimes
"X" isn't what's best for the patient. And sometimes it puts you in this murky position where the patient feels like they're not getting what they want. You're not giving it to them because you think it's not
in their best interest. And then they do something like, leave a review for you
on one of these websites. And as a result, you
can't even comment on that 'cause legally you're
breaking patient privacy if you comment on that. - Oh, I never thought about that. - Yeah.
- That's absolutely right. - I'll research the joint. I'll learn what I can. I'm not making any promises. - [Travis] I'm not worried. - Despite the fact that she appears to have been actually
making some promises, it is obviously good that she is going to do some research here. It's not necessarily dispositive that a doctor hasn't
done a procedure before - Sure
and is therefore negligent based whatever outcome happens. But often in cases like this, at least the manufacturer has an interest in making sure that their own products are installed correctly. So, to my knowledge, medical manufacturers will
give doctors extensive training so that things are done
correctly on the user end. - They will send in a rep during the time of the
procedure to be with us and guide us with the
questions that we may have. And they're really well-trained because a lot of the stuff, tech wise, comes out so soon. You just have to have
them on the same page. - I'm not settling. Okay.
(Dr. Mike chuckles) - Okay, you've convinced me. - I tried. - And there are things
to remember tomorrow. Let the jury see your face. - Wait, tomorrow? What?
- That's... how fast is that? - That's ridiculous. This is a conversation
that they would be having on day one, on day two, on day three, this would be a multi-year process. - Let the jury see your face. You wear a suit. Dark, not bright. Skirt, pants, minimal jewelry, heels, pantyhose-- - Pantyhose? - Professional but feminine. You still have your wedding ring? - Yes. - Wear it. Juries respond better to
marry women with families. - Ooh, that's a little misogynistic there. I mean, so there is, there's a whole science to presenting yourself
in front of the jury. This is going a little bit crazy in terms of the specifics. I mean, you want to dress nicely. There are whole memes on the internet about Tekashi 69 showing up to court with like
tattoos all over his face, his tie like down to here and like his shirt out and stuff. So you don't want to show up
to court looking like that. Being so specific about
what you're wearing. She's a doctor, she's-- - The colors, does it matter? I can't imagine...
- Not really. Maybe on the extreme margins. - You ready? - Sure. - Okay. Okay. As someone who knows a fair
bit about men's fashion, what do you notice about the shirt that this guy is wearing. - It's a different color
collar and probably cuffs. - Yeah. So, he's wearing what's
called a contrast collar and French cuffs.
- Yes. - Which is, if I had to choose... the most pretentious thing you could possibly wear with a suit, I would say contrast collars. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, if you're a tobacco tycoon maybe and you're drinking a
mint julep on a patio, contrast collar's great. I believe that there's only
one proper color for a shirt, which is white. But that--
- White, okay. (laughs) It makes shopping a lot easier, right? (dramatic music) An above the knee amputation is usually a more aggressive one. If you can, you always
try and go below the knee for stability purposes. Also, there's a lot of blood vessels here that are really dangerous. So, most patients that I
see who have amputations, usually to like diabetes
complications, gangrene, are below the knee amputations. It's rare for me, at
least in primary care, to see above the knee amputations. - I imagine you want to save
something below the knees so that the prosthesis is
more functional that way. - Yep, exactly. (door closes) (dramatic music) - Okay, you do rise
when the judge comes in. - Would if I could. - So that is great. There's a whole science and pseudoscience to making your client
presentable and human in front of the jury.
- Okay. - And you're technically
not allowed to talk to the jury, except in opening statement
and closing argument. - Okay.
- So, anything you can do to humanize your clients,
- Wow. the better. - And notice he's not
wearing a tie.. makes sense and he's a young guy... humanizes him a little bit. But to kinda get that jab in and say, "Oh gosh, I can't stand up "because of this horrible thing "that the doctor did to me." That's really smart.
- Driving home the point. - Driving home the point. It's not gonna show up on
any transcript, anywhere. - Now, serving as a juror in a medical malpractice case, isn't easy. I don't know about
y'all, but I'm no doctor. Hell, I barely made it through high school biology.
(jury laughs softly) - Okay, fine. - But you are going to get
a crash course education in orthopedic medicine and
postoperative infections. And you're going to hear
words like "pseudomonas" and "emboli". Don't let that intimidate you. - So, the sort of "aw shucks" thing. Like, "I'm not a doctor." Blah, blah, blah. That can be good. But you want to pair that
with making the defense seem like they're the ones that are trying to overly complicate things.
- Got it. And that you're the speaker of truth. You're going to tell them
exactly what happened 'cause you're not hiding anything. In an opening statement like this, what you would want to say is, "You're gonna hear a
lot of medical jargon. The defense wants you to be confused about these things", but you want to transition to your theme. The one thing you want
the jury to remember throughout the entire case. The lone star that they can hold onto. And you say, "Despite all this complicated stuff, and we're gonna explain it to you, the one thing you need
to remember is... this." - Dr. Torres agreed to perform a surgery she did not fully understand. We will establish that Dr. Torres made a series of faulty decisions. Eventually costing Mr. Travis Reed, a thriving, healthy Olympic athlete, his legs. And we will establish that all of this started because
of one careless mistake. - So, that's not bad. It's a little argumentative. An opening statement is not
like a closing argument, where you're allowed to make whatever arguments you want.
- Okay. An opening statement is there so that you can tell the jury what is going to happen. What evidence is going to come out based on your extensive discovery, that you have done.
- Sure. - What I don't like
about this is that he has put the stakes too high. "This doctor made one huge mistake. "And this doctor did something
she didn't understand." If I was the defense counsel-- - You would just disprove that, he loses. Exactly. In my closing argument I would say, "Remember when the
plaintiff's attorney said, "'The doctor didn't understand that'? "Well, you heard from
the doctor that she did "a hundred hours of research, "corresponded with the manufacturer "and brought the manufacturing rep "out to participate in surgery. "She knew what she was doing." Is it true that in
medical malpractice cases, unlike the burden of proof being beyond a reasonable doubt, it just has to be more likely than not? - That's exactly correct.
- Okay. - And that is the case
with all civil cases. It's called the
preponderance of the evidence standard. - All right, let's start
closing. Irrigation, please. - Wait, the sponge count is off, we're missing one sponge. - Are you kidding me? - You can't close until we find it. - So this is true. We do a very careful sponge count before and after the
procedure prior to closing because there have been cases, as you're well aware, of sponges being left in patients, tools being left in patients. In fact, I remember when we were operating we would have on the wall
all the sponges that we've, were gonna use for that case. So there would be like
30 sponges on the wall in little pockets, almost like the shoe things, you know? - Right, yeah that makes sense. - And then as we take them out, we put them back in. And we've made certain adjustments where before we would just use
sponges by themselves. Now, they have an attached plastic ring that makes them easier to spot. You could also leave that
plastic ring outside of the body so you know to take the sponge out. - Oh! - So, there's been a lot of adjustments to improve here but clearly it's still happens sometimes. - Are you saying that Dr. Torres knew she left a sponge in Mr. Reed's body and she didn't care? - [Jo] No, of course she cared but-- - No, but still she knowingly left-- - What?!
- Who is this on the stand? - Exactly! This is one of the nurses or doctors in the hospital. So, the plaintiff as
apparently his first witness, has called a hostile witness. (Dr. Mike laughs) That is insane. Juries, like all humans have the primacy and latency effect. So, they're gonna remember
what they heard first and they're gonna remember
what they heard last. - Yes. - So, using that to your advantage at this point to the stand, you would call either
the plaintiff himself to tell the entire sad story
of what happened to him. Or you call your expert, who is going to explain,
- On your side. on your side, all of the medical stuff, from the secondary material. You would never call a witness that is basically on the other side.
- Yeah. - The patient was running out of time. He would have-- - Hun, hun. It's a yes or no question. - (both exclaim in shock) Hun hun? (laughs loud) - I've got a boy in college, good kid. And I went to visit him last month and you would not believe
the sponge I found in his sink. I mean there's no tellin'-- - Ask a question. - Objection, irrelevant. - Yes, that was irrelevant. But that's like the fifth
most important objection to make here?
(Dr. Mike laughs) He's just telling a story. "I got this kid in college. "He's a real mess. "He left a sponge in the sink." The only thing you're allowed
to do, during examination, is ask questions. That's it. - Well, let's fast forward to the next time you saw Mr. Reed. - About two weeks later. - And how was he then? Was he... good? Happy? Recovering well? - He had an infection.
(whoosh) - Hi there. Travis, I hear you got quite the fever. - [Jo] Temp's 103, I'm
just starting his workup. - He's burning up. - And she said this is weeks later? - Apparently. - But weeks later, she's just seeing him for the first time? Like, she would see him the next day. - That sounds negligent. - [Girlfriend] I had to
force him to come in. - [Callie] How are you feeling Travis? - Wait, he went home with a fever? - No! - Post-surgical fever can happen. And there's like, a thing that we remember in medical school called the five W's. Wind, water, walking, wonder drugs... and they all mean something different. Like UTI's, pulmonary
embolism is one of them, wind being pneumonia. Medications that you could
be taking can cause a fever and you try and rule things out. But the fact that he
went home with a fever and he's 103, that's a really high fever. That should be thoroughly investigated. - Is that a murmur? - Okay, so they are
listening to the heart. - Did they listen to the right side? - Well, it's funny when you listen for heart sounds, you actually listen starting on the right side of the body. And a lot of people, patients that are medically in tuned from watching shows or have some curiosity they'll say, "Doctor, you know, the heart's "on the left side."
(laughs) I'm like, "Well, there are blood vessels that come off the heart that are on the right side that we listen to as well." The pulmonary artery. So you want to listen there and then move your way, make your way, aorta, listen to the
chambers of the heart. So, yeah we do listen on the right side to hear the heart. - That looks bad.
(Jo in the background) Oh wow. - That looks like an infected wound. - What does "oh wow" mean? Yeah so, when we give medical feedback, when we listen to a patient's lungs, when we look at wounds, we tend not to exclaim our feelings. (laughs) So, we don't say, "That sounds scary. That's good. That's bad..." It's either normal or abnormal and you keep it at that. - I don't want you to worry. The wound looks a little infected-- - A little infected?! - Okay?
- Yeah - I mean, he looks like
a zombie from my eyes. What I'm seeing right here is all kinds of reasons why the hospital
could have not only contributed to the initial negligence but committed its own
malpractice, as well. Which is, that this
patient is being sent home too early.
- Yes. - This patient is not being checked on regularly.
- Yeah. - And to the extent that they are checking on this patient, they're not examining the wound where the surgery took place.
- (laughs) Yeah, exactly. That wound did not get infected today. (both laugh) That's been an infection
that's been festering. And generally speaking,
after you have surgery you have not only
follow-ups with the surgeon, you have follow-ups with
your primary care doctor. All of which times we do vitals, we check a wound. In fact, anytime a patient
now is hospitalized. We have one of our nurses
call the patient the next day to make sure they understand the medicines they should be taking, what symptoms are they experiencing? And if anything is off,
they come right back. - What about the murmur? Could the infection have
traveled to his heart? - His vitals were stable. So, first we gotta clean
out that joint, okay? We can't afford any delay. - See? Another thing that's untrue. How does she know the
wound is not just infected versus the joint is infected? - Well, at this point, they might as well just
paint a dollar sign on top of the hospital.
- Exactly. - And this doctor might as well be just taking wads of cash and lighting it on fire.
- Honestly, I think if, you can probably create your own law firm that just targets their patients, 'cause you'd be very well off. - Post-op infections are very common. They happen all the time. - Is that your professional opinion? - It is.
- I see. And in your professional opinion, is it also common for a post-op infection to result in a double amputation? Does that happen all the time too? - You don't know what she's
going to say right there. She might say,
- Yes. "In a situation like this, "where this went wrong, "his heart blew up, he had a lung problem. "Yeah. That's exactly what
I would expect to see. "And these doctors did a fantastic job. "That's completely impeccable." - What would he have done in that case? - Thank you, Your Honor. I
have no further questions. (both laugh loud) - Why didn't you page me sooner? We just heard the murmur this morning. - This morning? - Yeah. - Look at this growth. You knew he was a heart patient. This didn't concern you? - Of course it did.
That's why you're here. So what did we do? - The infection is
eating away at his graft. - So, not only is having a fever 'cause his joint is infected, which she knew somehow
without doing any diagnosis, but his heart valve also
has an infection on it. Vegetations means it has
actual bacterial growth on it. And she's only performing
the surgery on his leg, but not on the heart? - Dr. Torres? You need to see this. - I was changing his compression
socks and I saw this. His leg's gray, cold. I can't find a pulse. - Why aren't you checking all the time! - Yeah, exactly. So, when a patient is laying in a hospital they're not just passively laying there. The reason they're in the hospital is because there are wound
checks every few hours, neuro checks, the residents come in and round on the patient every morning. Look at the wound, look at the leg. - And it seems like, an area where there's
already been some problems, you probably don't want to hide them behind compression socks. - Yes, exactly. - Okay. Where's Whitney? - I told her she had time to grab lunch before Travis woke up. All right? You need to go
find her and tell her-- - That's an ultrasound, portable ultrasound machine that we use to hear blood flow. And the reality of it... you don't need that for his leg. You can see that it's
not getting circulation. - Okay. I've got to go in and do an embolectomy on the spot. - Yep there's a problem. - So an embolectomy, like they're saying that a
blood clot has now traveled to his arteries. I can't, I can't even follow this. There's nothing, there's no medical sense or rhyme or reason.
- Doesn't that presume that a blood clot has flown down to his... - Arterial system now. - in his legs. - Yeah, which means it did a full circle. (laughs) - If I don't try this embolectomy he could lose his leg. - Well he can live without a leg. He can't live without a functioning heart. - Look, if you do the heart tomorrow, it gives him an extra day on antibiotics. Right? He'll be more stable. And the heart surgery will be less risky. Christina, this is Travis
Reed we're talking about! Let me try to save his leg. - Does the course of treatment
change if you're dealing with a famous person? - It doesn't change that. But it does depend on patient need. Like if a patient's job is... intimately tied to a specific
function of their body, we will work harder to save that body part.
- Ah, I see. - Yeah. So there is some truth to that. You may have seen musicians
play their instruments during brain surgery. 'Cause they want to make
sure they don't do any damage to something that's really
important to that person. - Whoa! That is cool.
- Yeah, yeah. - What's his temp? - Oh, he was febrile over night, but his white count's stable. - What's going on?
- Travis? - What aren't you telling me? - What's wrong? (loud whoosh) - That's full on necrosis. So, here's the weird situation. - Why aren't checking on him? - Why is he the one pointing that out? And why are they so casually strolling in like in the middle of the day? He's basically throwing more clots and the fact that they
waited to do his heart (stutters) it's obviously, she's guilty. This is a civil suit. She's not guilty, she's liable. - Liable
- And I think so is the hospital here.
- Yeah, agreed. And notice where his
necrosis was starting from, below the knee below.
- Below the knee. - Why did they go above? - Oh man... that's unfortunate. If you want to see the
rest of our analysis, click here for part two
on Legal Eagle's channel. Check out Legal Eagle. (upbeat music)
Great collaboration! Now, I and probably most of us want to see "whisper challenge" with Legal Eagle or with Dr. Luis Espina.
eyy the cool doc and the cool lawyer doing collaborations
letsgooo
u/realdoctormike Please do your own medical sketch, buddy your video got a 100k likes
That was an interesting video 👍but I didn’t understand one thing lol 😂
That a great collaboration lawyer legal eagle vs doctor .. so I love it to watching this both it’s so interesting funny and explanations what they watching this about of greys anatomy malpractice episode....
I love these intelligent men debunking silly scenes. They look so cool and hot😂