Diesel Insights: Allison 1000 Transmission

hi I'm Nick pregnant with Duramax Turner calm we're in the shop today with Joey Olson howdy guys we're gonna be talking about some Allison 1000 stuff common failures kind of how they work what they look like on the inside just get our feet wet a little bit we're lucky enough to have DJ open the Ellison behind us here we got a laid out on the bench if you look at the parts that's just kind of it's overwhelming it's a lot go that Latin Alison I think it's important to know that this this transmission is similar to other automatics in the way that it has multiple clutch packs multiple gear sets I mean it it shifts automatically it has a torque converter but it's different from previous model like for LED and the 47 re and it doesn't have a band so it's it's clutch the clutch shifting it's all electronically controlled there's no hydraulic control it's got serious brain to it it does and it's a beast and when put together right these things take a real ass-kicking and from the factory they're a big improvement over the previous model 4l 84 or 85 and it's it's a horse transmission the Olson is B sub transmission like anything in stock form it's not invincible I commonly get calls from guys after much everyday asking why they're Allison is going Inlet mode going to the fourth and fifth gear so I wanted to ask why that happens let's take a look at that snow fan I mean let's let's see what what fails right what you mentioned overdrive so they're going into fifth gear this is the situation right yep what do they say on the phone it's typically climbing a hill they're getting on it passing the guys on like two-lane blacktop that's when I get a lot guys are getting on it and truck goes in a limp mode I like to pull over it clear the code restart yeah so when you say limp mode tell me but like like slam goes into third or fourth gear yeah holds that gear oh yeah it's like yeah they know something bad happen yeah not at the camper okay that limp mode is usually a slip in fifth gear so there's two clutches applied in fifth gear C 3 and C 2 usually it's a C 3 clutch pack that slips when the truck goes and makes that 4 or 5 up shift or the or converter clutch lockup and that's because we're losing line pressure and we'll get into that in a minute but we lose mainline pressure on that four or five shift with lockup and all of a sudden the truck does not have the holding capacity and the clutch pack slips and a code you get is incorrect fifth gear ratio so let's take a look at those clutches and show you which ones slip and why they slip let's get the fundamentals out of the way first yep this is the pump this controls the pressure in the transmission so on the early Ellison's there's no pressure mod no pressure modulation whatsoever electronically it's all mechanical the first pressure modulation like real pressure modulation started in 2011 there's a G solenoid before that electronically bleep bleeds off some pressure at low throttle positions and that's something you really need to be concerned about date doesn't impact the limp mode on this pump you got two important two important features on the pump you that I want to draw your attention to one is pressure control so this valve in this spring control the mainline pressure and that mainline pressure combined with the number of clutches the friction material and the diameter of the clutches defines the holding capacity okay so more clutches more holding capacity right pressure more holding capacity makes sense right stock mainline pressure without the converter clutch locked up it's about 250 psi give or take right strength of the pump strength through this way we structure 15 to 20 years old now so miles wear and tear and wear and tear or whatever rip we'll call it 250 TCC engages and that pump has a kick down valve right here and what that kick down valve is gonna do is drop line pressure about 90 psi again give or take we're gonna go down to about a hundred and sixty psi line pressure okay and that is because you only need that much line pressure in those gears with the TCC engaged per the factory calibrators ready to hold stock power right and the more line pressure that you run sustain the more heat you make and that's the enemy right so heat lowers mileage and as heat to the radiator stack and yeah you know takes away from the trucks ability to cool itself all the bad all the bad reasons we don't want heat when we don't need it yes so that kick down valve that's a problem in the aftermarket okay because if we want that huh we want that line pressure especially we got the sink turned up to four or 500 horsepower and a thousand foot-pounds of torque we want that to 50 to 60 pounds of line pressure or more than that if we're gonna build transmission right so when we go into fifth gear and we're all the sudden at 160 psi aligned pressure that's a problem now there's two clutch packs applied in fifth gear you got the C 2 and C 3 pack if you reach it over there in the corner there and grab me to see 2 pack now I'll just have you it is trans fluid right well let the viewers know there is one steel stuck to the bench hold up a C 2 pack okay and you can count the number of frictions in there so the frictions of the organic material one two three four five and six okay and if we as we look through them you can kind of see on this transmission to see yous transmission but the frictions look like they're in really good shape there's no burning there's no marks there's no material just certified numbers on it still part numbers the coloration is really good the Steel's don't have any burnt spots on them just a little bit aware but that's really nice looking back yeah yeah you can set that one back down okay so keep in mind that pack and the c3 is is engaged now the c3 I'm this fifth gear up shift is coming off of a third gear up shift it was also engaged in third gear and released right and now c3 is going to reapply take a look at those clutches counting for them the listeners that one two three and four four yep that's different than the number you counted before it sure is and you look a lot different to you okay so we've got a high horsepower truck we're down on line pressure by 90 psi we got two clutches trying to hold yeah all right which one's gonna give up first the obviously the c3 is here less clutch less metals just less material holding the power all right what evidence do you have in front of you well you can see that the clutches here obviously got pretty hot they're discolored I can't see any part numbers at all um yeah they're they're pretty toasty yeah let's take a look at the Steel's is there any I mean this one isn't nearly as bad as some of them that we see here's a little bit of marking on there but yeah you mean you can see a little bit of hot spot right yep I'm sure this truck probably drove fine it might have limped once or twice but right I don't think there's any major major issue with the operation here and that's kind of a thing we see when customers call in is they get limp mode once Reinecke it limp mode again and then after a while you know what that limp mode is saying is that this pack is slipping yeah if this pack continues to slip under clamped Forrest you're gonna degrade the clutches right yeah so you only get the limp so many times you only get to slip so many times all right eventually these clutches are chewed up yeah and at that point it's time to step up great and the aftermarket has quite a few solutions for the c3 clutch pack yeah in our dt 550 and ET 750 and 1,000 foot a six six clutch pack in here we use a different clutch material as well yeah we're trying to get this III picked hold right under that you know that thousand fourteen hundred foot-pounds whatever you're running is a performance enthusiast right so it makes a lot of sense something I get is guys who have oh six oh seven trucks they don't run a run of this issue as much I guess so why would that be yeah this this situation was addressed in the O 607 trucks so GM addressed this so they those trucks do have higher line pressure okay with the converter clutch locked so you don't see that you don't see those incorrect fifth gear ratio codes as much on those trucks especially at reasonable power levels what you do see on those trucks is converter clutch failure that's the call where you get no codes but chattering yeah from the tunnel so you converted close yeah I don't like yep doing this you guys good push through stop signs and having her really apply the brakes trying to come to your sure sure if it gets really yeah because it starts with I feel a little bit of chatter with my trailer behind me and I'm pulling a load I'm really working the truck and Mike my trans temps are climbing much faster than the yes and right so you're getting slippage somewhere in the system that's being it's not mitigated right if you continue to beat the truck in that situation eventually that converter clutch will fail all together and it might fail to the point where it drags that's where you get pulled through stop signs you get really an unpleasant driving situation as soon as you put the truck in gear wants to lurch forward kill the engine or whatever right that's a bad situation usually the trans fluids fried by then right like just a done deal okay so we went over on what we need to address with the CD clutch packs on what to do to them to make them hold more power let's talk about the inverters yeah yeah that's that's the next thing to fail all right so we added more clutches to the c3 pack we do similarly to the converters so the single disc converter good for eight hundred two thousand foot-pounds depending on who's driving it depending on what tire depending on the turbocharger setup dual disc converter good for a thousand twelve hundred foot-pounds triple disc converter like in our DT 750 those things are nasty yeah right so I mean the odds of you slipping a triple this converter without being at the professional competitive level pretty low I mean okay I've seen them hold 2,000 plus foot-pounds of torque so usually something else in the transmission is gonna need to be addressed you know where you injure that converter what's the point of a billet stator well what are thank you good question so we briefly touched on competition use dt 750 triple dis converter right so the stator is gonna define the stall speed the stall speed is what I would call kind of a minimum operate minimum useful operating range of the engine okay the two are not interchangeable but if you're thinking about it's a good way to think about it so do I want to be operating the engine under load at speeds below this so that a stock turbocharger is gonna come to life at 14 1600 rpm and then stock converter is gonna stall out at about 1800 rpm install just means the engine won't be able to accelerate past that it'll just run past the trans right okay put on the brake put on the gas you know here that's your stall speed okay okay as you change the stators or go to a billet stator you might pick a stator that allows the stall speed of the truck to be raised so you might get 2200 rpm 2500 rpm right and all that allows the truck to do is is operate in higher rev range without the converter clutch locked to get the load moving so if you get on top of the turbocharger right so you see you guys with us for hundreds or bigger turbochargers running higher stalls okay when you run those higher stalls it's harder on the stator the stator is part of the the operating mechanism in the hydraulics of the converters or on the coupling mechanism in the converter okay that stator gets its ass kicked okay so if you run those high stalls you get a lot of difference between input shaft speed and engine speed and that Energy's going somewhere it's going into the stator Alki stators taking a lot of that abuse the point of the bill of stator is to not allow flex so to maintain the same stall speed time and time again when you're on a line stall in the truck up and four-wheel-drive getting ready to launch okay so you get the consistency there and you don't fail the converter in that scenario thanks guys with twin turbos nitrous whatever alright stalling up on the line at 35 40 pounds of boost yeah it's rowdy yeah so yeah that's the point of the billet stator okay okay does that create more heat in the converter then certainly we're in the truck like that it creates a lot of heat in the converter and it's hard on parts in general but the billet Sager is not gonna create more heat or less heat than the cast stator just the stall speed is gonna create more heat so the higher the stall the more heat in the transmission gotcha okay we're not gonna set customers up you know with stock turbochargers with goose necks with high stall converters because it's just a lot of heat right okay make sense it's not pleasant to drive yeah we're mileage right yep but if you're running that big turbocharger and you need that extra rpm because the trucks laggy that's when a high stall converter really is nice to have okay we went over what we have to do to the clutch packs to beat them up we went up we have to do with the converters to make those strong what else fails in the trans love the chef's right the chefs are a good crab big question we usually get from customers right like as they're upgrading they want to know do I have to put Billa chefs in doing a quick village absent specifically from the Dodge guys build chefs and everything yep we don't usually upgrade to build shafts until a thousand horsepower we might do it sooner if the truck is being used competitively or has big tires on it or is in a situation with a particularly abusive driver let's look at the shafts okay so we got some we got some big stuff here this is the input shaft this thing's a monster yeah failure is on these I would say it a pretty rare occasionally we get the snout broke off and the converter and we'll see that after maybe having some tire hop like or yeah there's a hellacious burnout at the end yes snaps this off in the converter but for the most part fairly rare next be the intermediate shaft I would say these are the rarest failures I don't think I've seen an intermediate shaft fail okay and after that you have the output chip so beefy output shaft yeah rarely do I see output shafts fail most of scenarios where they fail they fail right there at the splines and it's a guy doing a 35 or 40 psi boosted launched in second gear at the drag strip was with slicks okay a really spooling the thing up yeah you know letting it eat now you might see it in a similar situation slip pulling so no the upward shift really where they're putting the part of the ground or they're really hooked up put the power to the ground and in making it happen other hard parts that are worth looking at right here you have the p2 planet in the c2 hub and our DT 1000s we do upgrade these pieces especially on trucks that are being used competitively trucks that are run big tires trucks that are shifting through the gears under power a lot so a sled polar might run third gear and fourth gear going down the track right not necessarily making a lot of ships right might make 12 under horsepower but doesn't shift a lot yeah might even or just one gear down the track right drag racers are shifting through the gears every pass and those guys usually there's a situation where the trans isn't learned or they're trying a new setup or the truck was off power one pass and now it's on power and rattle learn and you get kind of a what I call a messy shift or you get a hard hitting shift and a lot of guys who own Alison's know what that feels like yes yep if you get that on a really high power levels or maybe might even sit on an OD fuel shift this interface will twist so you'll have you'll have twisted splines right here and you might see the same thing in here you might see this blown out ballooned out so what they do is mill out the face of this P 2 planet and put a billet piece in its place and then you're gonna use a beefier casting notice see two hub for really with those modifications the pressure turned up shafts address main they're they're pretty nasty even if I was north power plus all good to know I have a certain question had a customer called the day his Allison was failing on him going to let mode he's worried about driving the truck here when should he really be considering getting the truck towed in or trailered here or what's okay to drive yeah yeah a good question I would say for the most part you can nurse those in especially those fifth gear failures a lot of the trucks have overdrive lockout you can lime in fourth gear and drive the truck here in fifth gear okay if the truck is not pulling through the brakes it's not making grinding noises it's not like immobile only you can probably nurse it here stuff you want to really look out for would be those things right there right converters filled and the things pulling through the brakes obviously don't drive it have it towed yeah if it's just the clutch packs failing usually it's one clutch pack that's failed and the other ones are kind of on their way or thinking about it if you can just avoid that gear or get past that get past that shift and kind of nurse it the rest of the way it's usually okay to drive the material and debris is gonna is gonna circulate through the transmission from that one failed clutch right okay the risk is that debris and that material gets to the point where it fills the trans cooler or destroys the converter or it gets hung up in the converter right right cuz we start tearing up multiple clutches we get a lot of debris going through the transmission yeah and the transmission cooler and take note guys who are rebuilding transmissions and putting new transmissions in trucks if you're doing that you need to check that trans cooler you didn't always flush that trans cooler because if you're not flushing that trans cooler that debris and that stuff that you had in the transmission is going right back in your new trans right right we don't have any control over that if we send you a transmission in a crate right just great practice right always flush that trans cooler after a transmission failure but I would say for the most part is probably SARS nursing a transmission to get it fixed you know right to a fault even the Allison puts up with a lot of abuse yeah before getting addressed that was a great question I mean obviously there's a lot more on the tail here I mean we we barely scratched the surface yeah the basics and fundamentals Allison operation there's a lot more we can talk about here right no that's a lot of great information you know that's what I need to know be able to pass on to the customers we're not knowledge-based company and that's what we need to know - it's important to share that stuff yes yeah yeah yeah hopefully you and your customers appreciate getting to see the inside of the transmission here like so people and get to talk about common failures and yeah how to handle ins I appreciate you thank you I'm Nick pregnant I'm Jo else'll this has been a diesel insights hope you enjoyed it [Music]

Channel: Duramaxtuner

Views: 145,887

Keywords: diesel, truck, allison, transmission

Id: 17q4mczL5FE

Length: 18min 52sec (1132 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 30 2019