Dealing with the Natural & Pathological Lies

toxic relationships i'm Dr. Rhoberta Shaler i'm  glad you're here. in this episode we're going to   be discussing the differences between pathological  and natural lying and that may be a distinction   you don't know much about but you will learn!  What do we do with all of this lying that happens   when we're in relationships with the relentlessly  difficult people i call hijackals? We're going to   explore that deeply. i hope you'll stay tuned and  listen to the end. there's so much here for you   and i am always delighted when you are here  listening and learning it'll change your life   having these insights about what's up with these  difficult people makes it so that you can make   better decisions once you can see something you  can change something once you can see something   you can say something and you have to know whether  it's wise to say something and if you are going   to say it how to say it so let's get on with  this topic about dealing with pathological lies   and the natural liars so important if you've  been following me for a while i'm so glad   if you're brand new i'm glad you found me if  you'd like to be part of my newsletter so that   you know what's going on at any given time you  can always do that by going to hijackalhelp.com hijackalhelp.com hijackalhelp.com so lying we hate it when we're lied to i'm not  talking about the little white lies you know do   i look fat in this not those ones i mean the  actual lies about events situations feelings   things that that become a little chronic and  they become troublesome and you begin to wonder   can i believe anything this person says to me  and that's what happens with hijackals isn't   it you begin to wonder can i believe  anything at all so why do they lie   well they lie because they can have dominance over  you and that's something they always want i'm sure   you've noticed that so that they can always be  in the driver's seat they can always be the one   bringing the information and making it  real whether it's true or is not true   they also lie because they want to win in  the moment and if they can't win with facts   they'll win with emotional facts ones that  they made up or actual facts that they made up   so that necessity to win that desire to win that  deep need to win and not ever be wrong that will   certainly cause them to lie they also want to  be the expert have you noticed that they want   to be the expert on anything they want to have the  definitive word they want to be the one who knows   the one who has brings the information you know  i i met a fellow a long time ago and i thought   it's really strange that he has the radio on all  the time all the time and he was giving me some   pretty big red flag vibes anyway but this radio on  all the time all the time and then i noticed this   that if i spoke to him and i said oh did you hear  that such and such happened i heard it on the news   if he hadn't heard it first he was furious so  we know things about hijackals and he would lie   about things now i didn't stay there very long  i certainly saw those red flags but had i been   younger i wouldn't have seen them if i hadn't  recognized all the work that i do i might not   have seen them earlier but the the red flags are  there and we really have to recognize them even if   we don't want to because we really like the person  or we want the attention or we've been lonely for   a while but please please recognize the red flags  so why else do they lie they want to one-up you   they want to always be the one who knows like that  fellow if i said did you hear this yes i heard it   an hour ago he always wanted it went up whether  or not he'd heard it an hour ago didn't matter   but it was that one upmanship or one  up womanship if such a word exists   and the other thing is that the flip side is also  true they lie because they want to make you wrong   or they lie because they want to make you smaller  or minimize you and make themselves bigger   hijackals always want to be bigger than any  room any other person any other facts so lying   then becomes a prerequisite that's what they do  and they also do another thing with their lying   they are very crafty with this they  want to introduce misinformation they want to introduce misinformation   and let's look at those hijackals for  a bit they lie for all these reasons   and they honestly think and we've seen it work  that if they lie and tell that same lie over   and over and over you will start to think about  it as the truth now we've seen that many times and have you seen it in your own life that  the hijackal says this was the way it was   they were actually gaslighting you as they're  lying they tell you this is the way it was   this is what you did and you get a little  confused and you start saying well did i   i don't remember doing that but maybe i did and  they tell the story so frequently that now you   believe that you did what they said you did even  though you started out knowing that you didn't   so the introduction of misinformation and then  repeating that and repeating it and repeating it   is intended to get you to believe it even  though it never happened or it didn't happen   the way that they're suggesting that it  did so how many times do they introduce   misinformation now this may sound harsh to you but  was it misinformation when they said i love you   was it misinformation when  they said you're worthless   was it misinformation when they told you you  were incapable or made you feel insignificant see it all gets really fuzzy and muddy doesn't  it because after a while you recognize that if   they're lying about some things they may be lying  about everything and you don't want to see that   because you want to believe that you can trust  them and particularly you want to believe you   could trust them because in the beginning they  told you that they loved you and they said all   those things during the love bombing phase and  you really really want that to be true so that's   why you go back to say but i know that they love  me well really has their behavior showing that   recently and now they're lying to you is that  what somebody who loves you does they lie to you   or do they do they actually repeat things like  you're i you're you're i don't know why i bother   with you you're nothing to me or i absolutely  need you haven't you had that shift in them   often enough that when they need you you're  wonderful when they don't need you you're   terrible when they want you to do something  they love you when you you don't do what   they want you to do they hate you now what's  the truth here remember they're going to lie   so we really have to think about this really think  about it deeply don't believe the pieces that you   want to believe question all of them because  if you start to believe their misinformation   you can go down a very very deep rabbit  hole and you can start believing it yourself   and that's what i help my clients with figuring  that all out and if i can help you or you want   my help go over to emergingempower.com there's  pages and pages of information there for you   tests you can take free checklists blogs  videos all those things at emergingempower.com   and if you want my help and are ready to be a  part of my emerging empowered community it's   really simple just go to joinintoday.com join  in today.com when you're a member of my emerging   empowered community you get three opportunities  and months to be on group calls with me   and that's a wonderful thing so go to  join in today.com and particularly if   it's hitting home in this episode that you are  being lied to and maybe you want to figure out   am i being lied to all the time or some of  the time or when can i determine whether i'm   being lied to or i'm not and am i deciding  i'm not being lied to at the times that   i hear what i want to hear and could that  be a lie yeah it really gets difficult so   did you start to believe their lies which ones  the convenient ones or all of them be careful   with that and did other people start believing  their lies and become their flying monkeys   loyal to the hijackal even though it's hurting  you but think about this even in the beginning   the lie may have been i love you and you  still want to believe it and you'll remember   our mantra abb always believe behavior so is  the behavior that you're seeing consistently   i love you behavior if not you have to  question that don't you because it was a lie   yes it seems that way that they loved you you  wanted to believe that they did but if a person   loves you they don't go hot and cold all the time  i love you i hate you i i love you i can't stand   you i love you you're worthless no you have to  start asking yourself is the lie really i love   you so they lie to make themselves the center  of attention haven't you ever been out with a   hijackal and they they need something a little  bit bigger than the story someone else is told   or they need something to be a little  sensational so they elaborate they embellish   they change well come on they lie and you're  supposed to go along with it you're supposed   to agree you're supposed to nod for  hijackals they love to take the glory   or they don't mind being the victim as  long as they are at the center of attention   all eyes on them all feelings coming their way  and they love to manipulate those feelings and   some people will play the victims sometimes  and will be the center of attention hero   others some people always play the victim um  they're they're always oh poor me and it was   nobody ever cares about me i've always been  insignificant i've always been a support player   never never ever had the center of attention  nobody ever notices me i mean i'm invisible   sometimes i feel i'm invisible but it's all  right you know that's the that's the covert   hijackal and then we have the overt hijackal which  it should be all about me because i'm fabulous i'm   wonderful and people are clamoring to be with  me so you should see yourself as absolutely   blessed because i'm with you but it's all tension  seeking behavior and have you noticed their lies   they shift they morph they change maybe by 10  degrees or 10 percent or maybe by 180 degrees   or a hundred percent depending on the  audience depending on how they're feeling   depending on how much attention they're getting  at the time now these are well beyond the lies   of yes i did what you asked me to do which they  probably didn't and you'll find that out later   but i'm talking about very basic lies about who  we are and how we are in relationship together   so i promised that i would tell you a few  things about the difference between natural   liars and pathological liars and if any of this  sounds familiar to you and you want to talk with   me about it i do have a one-time full one hour  introductory session for new clients for only 97   and you can take advantage of that by going to be  a client.com be a client.com and love to talk to   you and you will learn more about that there so  natural liars now it's not that people are born   naturally lying those are pathological liars but  there are people who don't have any problem lying   it kind of comes naturally to them they can fit  it into the conversation they can just meld it   into a sentence and nothing happens their face  doesn't change there's nothing that you kind of   get a clue about because they lie easily and they  lie successfully they know their ability to lie   and so do the people around them who've hung out  with them for a while they're quite comfortable   with their ability to lie and they know they can  pull it off but they lie to get away with things   they're not as you will see like pathological  liars these people lie because they've got to   they've got to find a way around something  so they like to get away with things   and they don't have what we call detention  apprehension detection apprehension i mean   detection apprehension shows on your  face i'm afraid you're not buying it   do you know i'm lying you know that's where  you get the ideas of the shifty eyes and all   you know i mean you know that that my dog  ate the homework that kind of thing where   we have detection apprehension but natural  liars don't have that they're not afraid   of being detected because they lie so easily and  effortlessly and their faces don't give them away   now a big thing about natural liars that  makes them different than pathological liars   is that they have a conscience they  know they're lying and they will   they will change if if they have  the experience of being caught   they don't want to be caught pathological liars  don't care but natural liars care they have a   conscience and they have empathy they're concerned  about other people they're concerned about how   their lives affect other people and when you tell  them that it gets in natural liars care and they   learn from their experiences there's nothing  anti-social in the makeup of a natural liar   they're just kind of lying to get along or  lying to avoid lying to not take responsibility   for something um lying to look a little better  like i didn't do my homework but the dog ate it   um but they never natural liars  never lie to harm other people that's not what they're doing it for  pathological liars especially those with   psychopathic tendencies they lie to harm other  people and they take great pleasure in doing so   so do you know a natural liar are you one can  you just put something into the conversation   that is not true but you never give it  away with your face and everybody buys it   and so you don't feel badly about  doing it because it didn't hurt anybody   some people can't lie at all they can't and that  can be wonderful if you want somebody who's direct   and who will always tell you the truth that's  a good thing but then there are natural liars   who will just weave it into the  conversation and you'll be none the wiser   but if you do ask a question have a natural liar  and say i don't think so that's not the way it   happened are you sure i remember it differently  they get concerned because they have a conscience   and they may get that silly green well you know  it was a little different than that and that's   the way that natural liars function and but  pathological or psychopathic liars are very   very different because they have that superficial  charm you know they're they're there to disarm you   and you are flattered by it until you actually see  it and then it kind of gags you a bit doesn't it   you you feel it coming you hear it coming you  see it coming you know oh yeah here comes a   whopper and you know what's going to happen but  they have this charm and you want to believe it   you do because you they always say the things you  most want to hear so don't beat yourself up for   for that but just know that as you get wiser and  you get more realistic and honest with yourself   about what's really going on in that hijackal  head then we have to realize that that charm   that's the tell that says oh the whopper's  coming uh they're leading up to something and   it's not going to be something good but these  are the pathological or psychopathic liars   and they're totally devoid of empathy totally  empathy deficient so they don't care if they   hurt you they don't care if they lie about you  they don't care if they lasso you into their lie   and hope that you will go along with them or that  you will get caught along with them if they lie   and include you they really don't care and if they  do get caught they have no remorse because they're   not working with a conscience they don't care it's  just whatever whatever i need to say to get what   i want whatever i need to say to get attention  whatever i need to say to hold the attention   whatever i need to say to get ahead they don't  care they'll lie on a resume they'd lie on   on their mother's graves and there will be  nothing in their face that would give them away   contrary to the popular belief that there is yes  of course there are there are micro expressions   that give away lies but to the untrained eye  they get away with a lot and sometimes it   takes a while for you to cutting on like i heard  that story a little bit differently last week   what's going on what's really happening  here and then you stand back and you realize   hmm who was the audience what did they  need from them what were they telling   why were they telling it why did it need to  change and you start realizing these lies   and you start hopefully saying that's not okay  with me you know i used to let those things go   not that you're going to do a big confrontation  about them because i'm going to tell you about   that in a little while but just watch them listen  for them observe observe observe and then you'll   realize by standing back and observing this  happens a lot they don't have any guilt they get   caught in a lie they'll lie to say that they they  they didn't do it right even when they're caught   they will come back with two or three attempts  to say something different they don't have any   guilt they don't have any shame they're not  embarrassed by being caught in a lie they   just want to make you look foolish they don't  care they really don't care have you had that   experience with somebody who truly doesn't care  that they're lying to you it's a horrible feeling because they're not going to change and that's the  important thing to notice you know people who are   pathological liars will always be pathological  liars they have no motivation to change   and you are not motivation enough they will not  change because they're not afraid of being caught and they lie for no reason it's just who  they are if it seems good to say this   today i'll say this if it seems good to say  the opposite tomorrow i'll say the opposite   i don't need to have a reason i don't need to  be afraid i don't need to get away with anything   i don't need to make an excuse i don't need to  shift blame i don't have to do anything if i'm   a pathological liar i lie because i lie i  don't need a reason and i lie compulsively   meaning i can't stop myself i just do  it it's what i who i am and what i do   it is all lying no matter which  way we look at that it is all lying and i've noticed you know with talking with  clients or talking with friends and noticing about   myself and all that when you start to recognize  that people lie and you start to recognize that   you have been covering for them or accepting it or  excusing it or justifying it or rationalizing it   then you've become complicit with the lying and  so your first work is within yourself to say   oh i'm going to take a step back here and see  where where the lies are and if there's any truth   to what's being said don't take any action against  the liar but observe and ask yourself okay which   parts of this are true which parts of this are  not true how often does this happen how many times   do i buy it have i bought it in the past have i  given them the impression that i buy their lives these are important questions because  their self-interest hijackal self-interest   fuels their dishonesty they always want to be the  one who is known and right and attention seeking   they always want to be at the center of  things they always want to be the director   of everything including your thoughts and  so their self-interest fuels their their   dishonesty to get what they want to have life  be the way they want it to be they are dishonest   and your first question is  do i recognize the dishonesty even if i have to recognize the dishonesty that  they don't really love me because if they did   they would treat me differently they would  speak to me differently and maybe i've been   rationalizing and justifying their bad behavior  because i really want to believe they love me   and sadly that's whether it's your parents  that you're thinking of right this second   or a partner or a sibling or a friend you may want to believe it but when you look at  their behavior you know their behavior is a lie   and so many of the things that they say and do  are a lie not to mention all that they will say   in court which will be a lie all they will  put in their briefings all they will ask for   and have reason for why they should have full  custody of the children so many lines so right   this moment is really important for you to take  a step back and say is there any truth here   and can i put my finger on where the truth  is as opposed to finding the many many lies   so a few things to do after taking that step  back stay calm there's no point getting upset   about the fact that they're lying because  you buy into them and give their live power   so just stay calm and observe it oh they're lying  again i can't believe that their behavior doesn't   make that true and expect them to deny so if you  say you know that's not the way i remember it   which is absolutely a perfect personal weather  report response which i encourage you to use   that's not the way i remember it that's not the  way i felt because gaslighting and lying can get   awfully muddy too they're trying to lie to you to  build a narrative that they wish they had created   and they're trying to take away your experience of  it as real and replace it with the misinformation   of the lie so all that becomes very convoluted  so if you say that's not the way i remember it   a perfect personal weather report they  will say well you just have a bad memory   it's got to come back and blame  shift right so expect denial   they're not going to admit to lying now sometimes  they will if you push and push and push and   they're a natural liar not a pathological liar  because they have a conscience but the first pass   probably not going to admit it so expect denial  and then remember they're lying is all about them   it's not about you even if  their lies seem to be about you   their lying is not and that's a big distinction to  make they are lying it has nothing to do with you   so it becomes important to recognize that  a lot of what comes from a hijackal's mouth   is inaccurate and when you can start making a  distinction between what's accurate and what's not   then you begin to see how big the pile of lies  grows now when someone is lying to you and you   say that's not the way i remember it i re me and  you may say i remember this and of course when you   give a person a weather report you never mention  another human by name or pronoun so you're only   speaking about yourself i remember it this way i  felt this way i saw this and that may jog their   memory because they realized it's a natural lie  and they are realizing that they have been caught   they may care but if they are compulsive liars  pathological liars they don't care and they are   not going to change so remember those lies whether  they're natural liars or are pathological liars   are about them that's the way they do business in  life that's the way they run their they run their   numbers if you like it's not about you it has  nothing to do with you staying listening to the   lies believing the lies has something to do with  you but their lying has nothing to do with you and   it's important to remember that and it's important  to know that you can end the conversation   when the lies begin you can walk away have to go  to the restroom have to leave have to do something   say oh that's interesting and walk away because  confronting liars is really treacherous in many   cases particularly pathological liars because  they'll just keep upping the ante and lie more   so it becomes extremely difficult and i wanted  to make this distinction for you in this episode   between natural and pathological liars and  to use that as a way to talk about hijackals   and realize that there are decisions to  be made when you start to realize that   you have been with a person who has told  so many lies that now you cannot believe   anything you know there are there are things in  the court in the whole court system that say when   when a person shows that they lied about  something and you can establish it with evidence   then you have to ask the question are they lying  about everything and so it is with hijackals   when you understand that they are lying you have  to ask are they lying about everything even the   good stuff and i know you don't want to think  that i know you don't want to feel that i know   you want to cling to the but they love me but  they want me but they like me you know i know   that but that big moment of clarity comes when  you realize that if they lie they could also   be lying about the good things and it could all  be designed to just manipulate you to get what   they what you want they want from you so the next  thing you have to do after this observation and   being calm and expecting the denial is to make  relationship decisions is this okay with you   is it all right to be in a relationship with  someone who is always lying or that you can't   never predict if they will tell the truth  because that will change your very nature   of understanding whether or not you are in the  right place and if you need help with that can't   help with that because it's hard to believe that  somebody isn't demonstrating that they love you   that they're just not doing that they're not doing  that and you know that as i said if you need want   to talk to me there are two ways you can go to  be a client.com and use my one-time new client   opportunity or you can come and join the emerging  empowered community at join in today.com and if   you forget these link names you can just go  to emergingempowered.com and search around   in the navigation and you will find everything  and remember too that if you'd like to get my   newsletter every week so you know what's new and  what's up and what videos there are and where the   what the podcasts were and all those things just  go to hijackalhelp.com and sign up and then you'll   get that every thursday and occasionally when  something new comes out you may get an extra one   so which lies can you abide which lies are  which lies you know i love you i hate you   i need you i want you i can't stand you i never  loved you i always loved you where are the lies   don't be afraid of finding them you don't  want to be hoodwinked by a lie any longer   you may not want that evidence you may not even  want to know that the answer is it was a lie but   it's your life it's your life going by and if you  have children it's what the children are observing   and thinking is okay so it becomes so important  when you're with a deceiver you know you can't   trust them you can't trust them you want to but  you can't and believe the evidence that you can't   and one phenomenon that happens is they're they're  saying things and you don't believe it at first   you're really resistant to it and this is a big  deal no that's not the truth no you don't think   that no i don't believe you but after they've said  it over and over giving you that misinformation   you begin to believe it and you know why because  there's a high cost to uncovering the deceit   and you don't want to pay it you don't want to  get into the fight you don't want to have to change the relationship you don't want to call  them out it the cost of uncovering deceit is too   high so you keep believing the lies and that's  where many people come to me and they've been   with a person for years and years and years  and years and they say why did i do it so long   because you desperately wanted to believe  the lies and it's very circular you know   you know what's wrong but you want it to be  right so you start thinking well maybe it's so   and so you wait another year or you wait  another six months and it keeps happening get the skills to be emerging empowered get those  skills you don't have to do it all at once you   don't have to make a big decision but baby steps  and nanoseconds you know when you go to join in   today.com and become part of my emerging empowered  community there are so many things that you get as   a member coming to you month after month and a new  thing that's just rolling out now are my journals   journals on different aspects of this is it  emotional abuse should i stay or should i go   each one is a journal that you can fill in  on the line and i ask you all the questions   and then you can fill them in and you can see  what's inside you and do it at your leisure   do it in secret if you must but it helps you  figure all that out and those are member perks   of being part of the emerging empowered community  so when you find yourself in that i don't want to   confront the lie but i know i'm being lied to  and you become somewhat immobilized i hope that   hearing these things tonight has helped you  say i don't think i want to live in the lie   any longer i need to find out what i need to do  within myself and then i need to find out what   to do with the other person and i'm here to help  you so go to be a client.com i hope this has been   helpful i hope it's caused you to think about  a few things a little bit differently and until   we speak again take very good care of yourself  because you're precious and you matter talk soon good evening how are you look at all the folks  great that's always exciting to know that   you've been listening in and  let's see what's said here   deborah b says so sad that the i love you lie  which is never backed up with many meaningful   actions can make you question your worthiness  for love yeah it is sad deborah it is so sad and   i feel badly even bringing it up because you know  we all want to be loved we all want to believe it   so we do take those little bread crumbs  of love and think they're a full meal   and they're not but the hijackal knows  that we'll jump at those tiny breadcrumbs   so that gets very enmeshed and i've done other  podcasts about the breadcrumbs and things so i   won't speak much about that but it is sad i said  it says thanks always well you're always welcome   deborah said oh thank you  deborah devrick made a donation thank you and an emoji dipper says not wasting  any more time with all the lies the high cost was   losing the relationship but it's a price worth  paying for having an authentic life oh you're   absolutely right that is the case i believe that  fully now that's all the comments that there are   tonight that's very unusual i wonder if something  happened to the system or if you just became listening very carefully to  the information um know that   i wait until there haven't been any more comments  for 30 seconds and then i believe that we're done   for the night so if you have a question  or if you have something you'd like to say   put it in the chat and it seems here that  the last thing that was offered was a 736   which would make it probable that that was all  there was and i don't see anything else coming   in so i have to believe that your questions  are all answered and the things that you   need to go away and think about and maybe cry  about a little bit um are next on your agenda   yes so you know where to find me you can  definitely find everything at emergingempower.com   so until we speak again take very good  care of yourself because you're precious   and you matter and linda just got in under the  wire she says i know who i was and who i am i'm   a daughter of a hijackal and this is bothering  me well linda it it's great that you see it i   know it's unpleasant i know it bothers you i know  it maybe hurts your heart but once you see it you   are going to protect yourself you are going to  be honest with yourself and you're going to have   you know the pain of releasing people who will  never have the ability or willingness to love you   it's so very important but that's part of taking  very good care of yourself is to realize that   there are people who don't have love to give they  may have the words but they don't have the ability   so take very good care of yourself and i will  talk to you all again soon be sure to subscribe   on facebook or youtube so you will get the  notice of the topic sometime on monday afternoons   and invite your friends if you're finding  value here take care and talk soon

Channel: Dr. Rhoberta Shaler - Help for Toxic Relationships

Views: 1,830

Keywords: pathological liar, compulsive lying, pathological liars and manipulators, pathological liars and narcissism, how to deal with a pathological liar in a relationship, how to spot a liar by their eyes

Id: v10HLxsnMsU

Length: 40min 43sec (2443 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 07 2022