David Sinclair: Living to 120

welcome to World of Dance a show for data  enthusiasts I'm your host Orrin Hoffman   CEO of safegraph and gpflex capital for more  conversations videos and transcripts visit   safecraft.com podcasts hello fellow data nerds  my desk my guest today is David Sinclair David   Sinclair is a professor of genetics at Harvard  Medical School and the father and the founder of   the Sinclair lab he wrote the book lifespan why we  age and why we don't have to which I've read and I   highly recommend he also founded several biotech  companies including inside tracker Cobar cantada   Bio Life biosciences and metrobiotech which is a  lot uh David welcome to World of Dance all right   thanks for having me on it's nice to meet you  I'm very excited now um I've heard you say that   there's no biological law that says we have to  age which is which is a pretty radical statement   break that down for us a bit uh well we tend to  think that what we see is inevitable uh and it   used to be the case for the speed of humans on  the planet we used to think that horseback was   the fastest humans could go we used to think  that when you got an infection from a splinter   that went gangrenous that was the end of that  limb or death we used to think that childbirth   was always going to be potentially lethal uh  these things we used to think were inevitable   now we're in a world where I'm trying to let the  world know that aging is no longer inevitable   um and in I'm a biologist I'm a geneticist at  Harvard where I've been studying this for close   to 30 years now and there's been no evidence from  my lab or any lab around the world that has found   evidence of any mechanism that tells us  that we must age there are processes that   we've identified that happen over time but we  found that those are highly malleable we can   slow them down and even in the last few years  almost completely completely reset the system   and reverse aging and so I I challenge anyone to  correct me when I say that aging is not inevitable   um and also that there is a limit to human  lifespan where's the evidence for that there   are plenty of species that live a lot longer  than we do and genetically they're not that   different from us and with the technology  that we have today like let's say we stop   developing technology today what do you think  the upper limit is of how long people can live   well with today's technology uh if you have  the means I actually think we're pretty close   to being able to prevent most cancers and heart  disease and diabetes so those major killers are   already largely preventable um and I'm including  things like DNA tests for cancer and MRI scans   so yeah not everyone can afford those yet but  surely they hopefully will be able to so if we   stop technology right now I think that with  a good diet and that knowledge and lifestyle   the average person could probably make it to 95.  you know there are plenty people who don't have   the the knowledge or the means to do the  right thing and that's one of the things   that I'm doing is education but I think that  we're about to completely blow past human uh   longevity expectations and history of longevity so  right now people who don't look after themselves   bring the average down there's covert there's drug  addiction that brings the average down across the   planet especially in the US and so the average is  is almost 80 years old here but those people who   um look after their bodies from an early age  and do the right things and live long enough   to to be able to reap the benefits of today's  technology um not even the future ones um can   expect to live into their 90s my father looked  after himself late in life and he's now 84 and   as healthy as he's ever been in his whole life  so these are the this is what people can expect   now even with today's knowledge and Technology and  where do you think like we're you said we're kind   of like at the point we're hitting some of these  breakthroughs what are the big breakthroughs that   have to happen to go from let's say people living  into their 90s to people living into their 150s   well they're happening in real time actually uh  every week there's another breakthrough uh in   aging research it's it was a slow field when  I started in yeast cells we were excited to   make a yeast Cell live 30 longer that's 19.95  technology uh things are happening at a rapid   Pace we've got the discovery that there's  a backup copy of Youth in every cell in the   body that can be tapped into where curing my  lab and companies that I've started and others   that are competing with mine or at least uh  friendly competition uh are showing that that   it's not that difficult to reverse the age of an  animal um we've done this in mice many times now   it's not that difficult a high school student  could do it with the knowledge that we have now   um we're at the point where we're awaiting uh  next week we'll announce results in monkeys for   age reversal we're curing blindness using this  technology out of my lab so we you know I would   say that the Wright brothers are flying already  do we have Commercial Air flight do we have a   Concord yet no but we know it's possible  to fly so it's really not a question of of   uh if anymore it's just a question of when  these Technologies become widely available   so what's gonna what has to happen we need to  figure out a safe way to reprogram tissues in the   body and eventually the whole body uh we already  have done some clinical trials in my companies   we have positive human data that shows that we  can slow down and reverse some aspects of Aging   biochemistry in the body can be reversed such  as cholesterol levels blood pressure these are   all doable with today's technology out of my lab  there's a new technology which is even better than   that which is a little a little bit behind that we  haven't gone into humans but we are in monkeys as   I mentioned that in the next two years we'll treat  our first patient it'll be uh to cure blindness   um and so you know the answer really is  that I think we've already made a lot   of the breakthroughs that can extend human  lifespan by decades um getting 250 I don't   think those breakthroughs are that far away  given how fast the field is going right now   the investment in the billions of dollars into  not just Labs but in particular industry that   has virgin just since our paper in 2020 showing  that age reversal is safe age reversal is possible   so I'm I'm 49 and let's say relatively healthy  like what what what's a prediction and have have   some money I can spend on some of these things  what's a prediction for the average person like   me like how how long is somebody like me going  to live do you think yeah I think you need to   throw away any uh preconceived ideas by looking  at your parents and certainly your grandparents   uh we are going to live very different lives  we're actually approaching a big inflection   point for those who are alive when these  Technologies come on board in the next decade   um so the point is if you know you're young but  some people who are in their 70s 80s and 90s   you've got to stick around do your best to live  as healthy as possible seek the best medical care   get scanned if you if you want to detect cancer  invest in your health is the point you know you   can invest in coffee every morning from a certain  store down the road or you can invest that same   money and afford an MRI scan for cancer so stay  alive for yourself at your age uh things are going   to happen rapidly by the time you're my age I'm  now almost 54. uh the technology hopefully will   be here that you can be prescribed in medicine  to not just slow down aging but reverse parts of   your body for for age Eyes Ears uh probably other  parts of the body and uh and certainly within our   lifetimes we're going to see a dramatic change  not just in what we can do to the body which I   believe is going to be reset multiple times but  the approach of medicine the approach right now of   medicine and doctors around the world typically is  well come see me when you get old and sick and and   then I'll treat you yeah well that's waiting till  the end stages of age cause problems we call them   diseases but they're really the manifestations of  this process called Aging which we Now understand   is a universal process across the body in the same  same process and different tissues that we call   Alzheimer's and diabetes and heart disease these  are all the end products of this same process of   information loss in the body which we call aging  and uh those diseases are currently tackled at the   end of life we need to tackle them uh early and  doctors will have the attitude and it's happening   right now thanks in part two people have read  my book and and the wave of longevity science   they're looking at patients now some of the  leading doctors and saying we can treat aging   itself we can start early we could take someone in  their 40s and use today's knowledge technology to   prevent that process or at least prevent it um  for another decade or two and when you do that   then what happens is you stay healthier for much  longer and that's going to be a big shift as well   it's not just technology it's the approach of  medicine as well and you mentioned these like   things like getting MRI scans and some of these  other kind of like tasks to do early detection on   things and one of the and I I recently got a MRI  scan which I thought was very very helpful full   body MRI scan but I can imagine for certain people  um there's going to be a lot of false positives   with these things and there's going to be other  types of things to get people to worry and the   stress of some of these early detections may not  outweigh like knowing about it like how do you   think about that or is it like hey okay if you  happen to be a more neurotic person you have to   work on that first or how do you think about when  you're when you're when you're advising friends to   do these things um yeah I think that that's a big  mistake and I've heard a lot of people say that   and particularly doctors um I think that that's  that's misguided for the following reason there   are plenty of tests that we do on pregnant women  for children looking at the risk of say having   um a child with Down syndrome yep it's not proof  but it's evidence that we might want to follow up   um and same truth is true for these MRI scans  someone who's young uh like the two of us I   regard us as relatively young we want to get  a baseline reading of what do we look like now   and then compare that every year and see what  changes it's the changes that are important you   don't go in necessarily like the Deltas every year  every two years or something like that yeah and   it's no longer just a doctor looking comparing  before and after there's AI systems already   commercially available that allow a machine to say  oh that part of your body just changed in the last   year let's take a look at that or monitor it a  little more closely maybe you want to come in for   a scan every six months to keep an eye on that  you know it's not all about a waiting till you   see a tumor it's about knowing how your body's  changing and getting ahead of that and it's not   just cancer that you see with these scans you're  looking at changes in your prostate size your gut   health your bone health your brain health your  blood vessels all of these things are important   to monitor changes of and get ahead of it before  it actually becomes a disease now I'm having Brian   Johnson on the podcast soon he's trying to spend  a couple million dollars a year to reduce his   biological age you're an avid tracker of your own  biomarkers do you have like an official kind of   figure for your own biological age and  how does one even like determine that   well there are lots of ways um a very simple one  is if you cross your legs and sit on the floor how   easy is it for you to stand up without touching  the floor if you can do that you're you're doing   well uh someone middle age typically has to push  themselves off with one hand and if you're in your   80s you might need to get onto one knee that's  easy um but that's not very accurate the real data   comes from blood tests or cheek swabs what I've  been doing for now a dozen years is monitoring   my blood work I don't do it that often I'm not  like Brian where I'm doing uh you know lots of   different tests and taking lots of supplements  but I do believe that without measuring anything   you're Flying Blind like driving a car without  a dashboard nobody would do that uh who's saying   um and so take some blood tests there are some  ways to do that you can ask your doctor or go to   some of the commercially available tracking sites  I've been an investor and an advisor to inside   tracker for many years um and they've been looking  at my blood work and they and I together developed   an algorithm to estimate one's biological  age using that and according to that test   I'm in the top two percent of people of my age for  youthfulness I'm about 10 years younger based on   that than my actual age so I'm 43. there are other  tests there's DNA methylation tests I launched a   company recently called Telehealth which is for  testing epigenetic age which is measuring your DNA   uh chemical changes and so there are a variety of  ways there's no one test to rule them all I'd like   to do those two kind of tests to give me an idea  of how I'm doing but most importantly it's about   looking at the changes and see how you're doing  and trying to correct those errors or non-optimal   numbers that can occur over time and you want to  adjust things you want to be scientific about it   to me it comes naturally of course I'm a scientist  um so you measure a change measure again that's   the the way to go about life I think and optimize  your body and often I'm asked you know tell me   what to do Professor just tell me what pill should  I take now there are some rough rules but really   everybody's different everyone has a different  genetics different background different lifestyle   different history different parents different  environment and so you need to monitor yourself   but I agree you know it's not easy to do what  Brian does there's no way everyone can afford it   let alone spend as much time on it but for very  little money you know investment like giving up   a cup of coffee or the money that it would take  to have a Year's worth of those coffees you can   spend that on your own health and you'll reap much  greater award or rewards than you would get from   drinking a cup of coffee and if you can afford  it do both foreign I read your book lifespan I   took extensive notes and actually changed a lot  of my own behavior and would love to dive into a   couple things one of the things that you got into  in the book was this kind of idea of hot cold   um and I I had a little trouble just following the  science of that even though I now do it because   it's fun um why why is this kind of hot cold  combination good yeah so the big breakthrough   um well one of the big breakthroughs in the  field that I was fortunate to be part of in   the 1990s was the discovery of longevity genes  and they exist in all life forms except viruses   uh and uh and viruses hijacked them to infect  us so that's you know still important there   but yeah these longevity genes exist in yeast  and plants that's also important plants that   we eat have longevity activating molecules uh  but really the point is that these longevity   genes we discovered in the early 2000s respond  to biological adversity sometimes we call it   stress but I don't think stress is the right  word because it invokes psychological stress   which is not what we're talking about we're  talking about cells and tissues and organs   sensing that the food supply or the environment or  having to run away from a saber-toothed tiger or   an invading Army is dangerous and without danger  our bodies are complacent we don't like to waste   energy so we put our energy into building fat  and uh and at the expense of getting older   um and and staying young so that the problem  really is that our society is built to make us   feel comfortable and take away any perceived  threats to our survival we don't have to go   hungry most of us we don't have to run if we  don't want to even our suitcases have wheels   on them we go up elevators and our body says  perfect great I don't need to put energy into   activating longevity genes and they don't and what  we end up with is early aging rapid aging diabetes   heart disease as a result of the lifestyle that  we have which is an abundance rather than an   adversity memetic as we call it as I like to  call it and so hot and cold those are similar   as exercise and fasting are that they invoke this  defense response adversity pneumatics and so you   can do that so it's really about just it's about  the stress yeah um and it's a it's a very uh and   and doing hot and cold or doing like interval  trainings or or um you know doing some sort   of um some sort of fasting type of thing it's  a very low risk way of of stressing your body   right well you can always overdo it if you stay  in a sauna all day you're probably not going to   reap the benefits or if you freeze your body  parts same with exercise you can overdo it and   fasting of course if you don't eat for a month  it's probably not going to be good either so you   know you can always go too far but the concept is  called hormesis which is what really doesn't kill   you makes you live longer and uh and that's what  I recommend people live by is that don't listen   to the marketing uh from companies that want you  to eat as much as possible and snack between meals   listen to your body listen to me hopefully and  others like me like you know borrows a lie my good   friend who say that you want to put your body in a  state where it it feels like it's working or feels   like it needs something and food and exercise  and hot and cold are the best examples of that on the interval training side is it uh obviously  the stress is probably a really good thing what   else is why what is the other big reasons for this  kind of like interval workouts and why they're   better yeah well it's the shock to the system um  most of what we've learned is that you can you can   eat as much as you want during one meal but then  you you taper it off during the day uh same with   exercise you can sit around but then you want to  put your body into a hypoxic state where you're   panting and cannot carry out a conversation and  it's mixing it up it's it's the contrast between   relaxation and the hormesis the the adversity it's  not so much the constant adversity which we know   constant adversity is not as good as mixing it up  athletes know this uh people who train their brain   know this um and it's it's so that's the good  news is you don't always have to be running on   a treadmill slowly or walking to get the benefits  you can just push yourself hard for 15 minutes   three times a week and get really great benefits  same with heat same with cold do it shock the body   get out and do something else yeah one minute  cold shower or whatever just something crazy   yeah you know I will freely admit that I'm pretty  lazy I try to be a role model as best I can but   um I often snack um because I'm stressed I often  don't exercise in fact I rarely exercise like   I should um but I do know the science and I do  think that um doing a little bit goes a long way   you know one thing you uh on the diet side you you  advised cured meats like cold cuts and bacon like   why is that oh well there's a lot of science about  uh nitrogenous uh compounds so those nitrates   um are damaging to DNA and there are two problems  with damaging your DNA one is that it'll cause   mutations to your genome which is the digital  information in the body and that's a cancer   type of thing cancer is the main readout of  that we used to think it was also aging but   actually there's more and more research saying  that it's the other type of information in the   body that's more important for aging which is  the epigenome The Regulators of the the genes   um and that's what we are manipulating in my lab  to control the aging process forward and backwards   and so when you take nitrogenous compounds  what you're doing is breaking chromosomes   um and that we've shown leads to aging because the  body has to react to fix that DNA and in doing so   it eventually loses the ability to regulate the  DNA itself okay got it now you're you're a big   fan of nmn and before I read your book I had  never even heard of nmn why why is that good   well now we're talking about research uh from my  lab in the early 2000s we found that the sirtuin   longevity genes that we've my team and well I  should say my mentors team Lenny guarante uh   discovered certain so let me tell you about Sir  twins these are seven genes in our body some of   us have better versions than others and in general  it's it's found that they protect the body against   diseases ranging from um Alzheimer's to diabetes  now these genes are get Switched Off over time   the the main role is to make enzymes that tell  the body how to survive during adversity so   when you're exercising and dieting and in sauna  they come on protect the body but the problem   is as we get older they become less active  and one of the biggest problems is that for   their activity they require a a little molecule  in the body a very abundant one called NAD NAD   is required for life it's involved in chemical  reactions but it's also used as a sensor for the   body of adversity when we have no adversity we're  eating a lot and sitting around NAD levels go down   that's true as we get older as well so a 50 year  old has half the levels of a 20 year old for NAD   um and what we like to do is to boost the  levels of NAD back up to youthful levels   and mimic exercise mimic dieting or even  enhance those modalities now we've even got   um human clinical trial data I was mentioning  one of my companies has done clinical trials   already for the last few years and by raising  NAD levels we can actually improve human health   and we hope that this will be a drug one day to  treat diseases ranging from kidney failure to even   covid-19 survival so what about nmn well nmn is  a precursor that the body uses to make NAD and by   ingesting nmn we've shown in humans that you can  raise your NAD Levels by about two to three-fold   um and that's beneficial uh in humans based  on clinical studies um you know when I say   I'm a fan you know I'm not selling this stuff  a lot of companies claim that I'm involved with   uh selling it that's not true I spend fair  amount of legal fees on trying to stop that   um but yeah any NAD boosters as they're  called seem to be really beneficial I take nmn   um and I've been doing so for probably about eight  to ten years and uh so far so good I've only seen   benefits some people ask about and so basically  you're saying the goal is to increase your NAD   um one way to do that is through exercise  you know you can do that by fasting sauna   um but there's this other way  to do it is to take this nmn   um essentially it's a soft elements and  you and and that can also boost your NAD   uh yes that's what the science is saying and  others have shown to improve six minute walk so   it's being used for performance uh endurance and  overall health it's not proving that it extends   lifespan in fact we've only just recently found  it extensor mouse's lifespan I haven't published   that yet so it's early days we still have a  lot to go on or to do at least but other side   effects for taking it or their um or does doing  one thing make it harder to do something else or   doesn't seem to be I mean mice in mice  there's a couple of studies in some rare   cases of genetically inbred mice that don't have  an immune system uh that they there's hints that   cancer might spread slightly more frequently in  a very small study but these are mice that are   in bread and have no immune system so it's  still full steam ahead with human clinical   trials there's been no Adverse Events in  any of the patients that have been tested   um or the subjects I should call them um and yeah  so I'm I'm not yet ready to say that there's any   known uh or at least uh tangible provable risks  that uh you know I want to be the first person   to know if there's a risk because yeah father  takes it my friends and family take it I take it   um so I'm not I'm not selling it I just want to  know the science but I do know that my father   is too old to wait till 100 proof that this  extends lifespan you and I are getting to that   point where we can't wait um and so that's  really what I'm doing is I'm educating the   public about the risks and rewards there are  a couple of male studies that I want to point   out but you know all weight up I think that  uh the risk right now for me and my family is   it's worth taking that risk until until further  notice now you also take Metformin um and um and   um like I don't even know how to pronounce it but  sorry it was virtual where's virtual yeah yeah   um and you know uh and often I'll you know  when I talk to my doctor he's like well I   feel like you know maybe you're a bit too  young to take metformin and I mean yeah I   I often encourage my patients who are let's  say 60 or over but it has some side effects   and that it makes it a little bit less likely  to build muscle mass and stuff like that like   how do you weigh some of those things uh  well let's start with when should you start   um I had a a real um heart to heart with my  doctor when I was 29. I had super high cholesterol   levels and he said I don't want to put you on a  medicine because you're too young and I said dude   it I don't want to wait till I get heart  disease to go on a medicine get approved   I mean put it on put me on it now so I've  I've always been of the philosophy that   it doesn't matter what age somebody is you treat  everybody the same way you know within reason of   course 20 year olds are a bit young for this kind  of stuff but if you're in your 30s and you want   to uh prevent heart disease prevent diabetes  I think that it's perfectly fine uh under Dr   supervision taking medicines that will prevent  disease especially when does these medicines are   extremely safe you do it under doctor Supervision  in case there's a problem but with metformin for   example and certainly Resveratrol very very  very rare that somebody uh gets so sick that   it's a problem and it's it's always reversible  as well you just stop taking it if you get sick   so these are risks I think are worth taking I  don't prescribe anything I don't even recommend   anything publicly so I would say talk to your  doctor you know it's if they say you're too young   I would keep fighting it I would show you  the data and if if you want there's always   alternative doctors um I just I think that the the  argument that when you're young it's too early I   you know there's a there's a at least I heard  that there's this trade-off of like okay it's   hard to build muscle mass building muscle mass  is very important as you get older um and so um   and so you know so you have to figure the trade  well it's frustrating to me as a scientist that   when somebody says something in public or someone  a podcast just says it's a problem it becomes   locked into the Public's Consciousness  and unfortunately nobody ever goes back   and reads the actual paper that this came from  and that that was also true for the women's health   initiative and breast cancer people still believe  that HRT causes breast cancer and uh that turns   out it doesn't same for metformin and exercise  when you look at the data uh and it's really   easy to see it's not difficult you can look at  it the graph that says there's a difference uh   first of all is being manipulated in a way that  is deceiving they cut off the y-axis so that   you're just seeing the very tippy top of the bars  and the actual difference is about five percent   um and it turns out that that five percent  is almost certainly due to people just not   doing the extra couple of reps in the exercise  because they feel a bit more tired so what's the   solution well if you don't mind having muscles  that are five percent smaller then no big deal   those muscles are just as strong and healthier  um and have less inflammation I don't care if my   muscles are still 95 there I'm not trying to win  any contests for bodybuilding but I can also I can   avoid metformin on days I work out no big deal  or force myself to do a couple more reps when I   feel tired that's all it is I wouldn't say that  that's a reason not to take Metformin there are   other reasons such as gastric uh gastrointestinal  issues that's more of a an issue but I think it   the point here that I want to make is make sure  that the science is true and the data that you're   getting is true don't just believe pundits or  even uh you know doctors who are saying this   stuff try to go to the paper read it or listen  to scientists who do read papers and also just   measure yourself do it under Dr supervision  make sure that it's not harming you make sure   you feel fine and then by all means in my view  it's worth starting in your 40s to maximize   your lifespan because we're aging every day it  doesn't just begin after the age of 50 or 60.   now initially I was actually kind of skeptical to  the idea that like big subsets of the population   would adopt any of these anti-aging Lifestyles  but then I saw a couple of studies that say 10   of Americans are already intermittent fasting  every single day over 25 percent have already   tried it maybe intermittent fasting is is not  the best one to measure because it's kind of   easy to do you just kind of skip breakfast  and so it's kind of a simple relatively   simple thing to do but how optimistic that you  actually will see widespread Behavior changes   well we are in in the midst of a revolution  in people's wellness and how active they are   in their own health pandemic was a major wake-up  call to people who stared in the mirror and saw   their own mortality and then there was a boom in  home testing because people didn't want to go into   doctor's offices for obvious reasons and so it's  becoming also easier for people to take home tests   now we don't want people you know going rogue  and testing themselves and trying to interpret   themselves with chat gpt4 and Beyond I don't think  that's the only solution I think there's a risk   that we won't have enough doctor supervision and  that some people overdo it there's always that   risk so there's a caution here I do think though  that there's a place for people taking their own   health into their own hands you can't always  be supervised by your doctor when you're at a   restaurant people do need to realize that most of  what affects their health in the future is up to   them not their doctor and what you do every day in  your life Echoes for decades and that changing a   lifestyle is as important if not more important  than the medicines you will take and that's why   I think that this revolution that we're seeing in  the population not just in the US but around the   world is a great thing and will only become more  prevalent and in 20 years it'll be the majority   of people will will be on board with monitoring  their own health it's going to get easier and   easier with devices as well uh cheaper and cheaper  and we'll look back at two years ago when almost   nobody did this and think that going to your  doctor once a year for an annual checkup and   having the doctor bang in your knees and cough uh  will will seem medieval in fact even to us today   it seems medieval yeah it's in the intermittent  fasting one it's while it's you know maybe uh 10   of the population it seems like it's it's probably  closer to 40 percent of my friends oh yeah and   um and one I think one of the reasons is well  besides the fact that it's relatively easy to do   um it's maybe one of the easiest ones to to to to  to do of of all the of all the things that people   prescribe um it's also also pretty easy to to  at least for people to believe that has low harm   um and because if you say to somebody stop eating  meat or something like that first of all I think   that's hard for people to do because they they  love they might love their meat and second they   may they may show you 40 studies of how that  actually could do harm to them um whereas and   so uh so it's it's kind of like this both things  that come in of why people may change behaviors   yeah absolutely and everybody's different some  people like hot and cold therapy some people don't   um yeah exercises for some it's not for  me although I know it's important to do   um and the same goes for fasting I do agree that   there's a real uh I don't know if it's fashion  or a permanent trend for people to not eat the   three meals a day that we were told to  eat and snack in between I think that's   very 2010 we're beyond that now uh most people  realize that we're eating too much obviously   you can see it in people's waistlines and I  think that that 10 is an underestimate that   certainly people who are taking notice of  what's out the information that's out there   um yeah in in my Circles of course it's it's 95  but I think I meet enough people from the general   public that it's way more than 10 that people are  interested in their health and I think that's also   logically driven by the pandemic people worried  about getting sick and dying I mean what 30 or   40 year old ever had to worry about that before  yeah and so after that in the aftermath people   are just more interested in seeing what they can  do now and fasting is a pretty easy way to go to   start skipping breakfast a lot of people do that  anyway trying to have a very small lunch or skip   lunch is another way to go I like to eat within  a six hour window at night I'll have dinner I   often uh as I said snack a little bit during the  day but that's my goal at least and I compensate   by drinking a lot of liquids that don't have  sugar in them and that helps yeah you know it's   it's an amazing thing to see how just in in my  career working on aging and talking about aging   and talking about longevity and fasting went  from Total Fringe in science to now mainstream   in not just science but in the general public  now there's still some sort of visceral often   negative reaction from a lot of people to almost  the concept of Life Extension some people think   it's unnatural some people say it's selfish I mean  you recently had this debate on Twitter with Elon   Musk about it why do you think so many people have  this kind of negative reaction to extending life   yeah well I I think that Elon is just secretly  trying to cause a stir uh watch he'll flip pretty   soon but uh there are still a lot of people who  don't like the idea of lifespan extinction because   they were raised with the idea that while you  can prevent diseases preventing aging is somehow   different but actually we found out that the  biology of Aging is the same as biology of disease   in fact aging is the cause of most diseases  so trying to separate those two is it doesn't   even make logical sense but it's more about how  we're educated that we wouldn't appreciate life   if we were to live a lot longer we know that's not  true you know if you go back 100 years did people   appreciate life more because you know they they  could die from an infected Splinter I don't think   so I think that we appreciate life for the moment  surrounded by our family and friends um and I I   you know if we if you and I were going to live 250  would we be enjoying this podcast any less I don't   think so and so and there's also the question of  how long do you want to live and most young people   say oh when I get to 80 come shoot me what they  don't realize is that when when they're 80 they're   going to feel the same they're going to love life  most of them and the last thing they want to do is   someone to come harm them and that's going to be  true increasingly in older ages people who are 100   will not want to die and it turns out if you're  healthy and happy literally nobody wants to die   and that's increasingly going to be the case for  older people are there like certain metrics or   kpis like kind of simple ones that you know the  average person should be collecting on themself   and either evaluating themselves or running it  through some sort of doctor AI doctor or something   well we're getting there I don't know if  yet of an AI doctor that that you can trust   um I still think that going with a professional  whether it's your doctor or someone like me my   partner and I um business partner and life partner  Serena poon and I we advise uh leaders of industry   and and athletes on this you know most people  don't have access to me but they do have access   to information my book I would recommend my book  is is a a source of legitimate information on   this topic um that is a good place to start um  and to modify people one's lifestyle in a way   that we will stay alive until this new technology  comes on board and it'll continue to get better   um so that's what I would recommend um I  think that if you don't measure yourself   and you just take a supplement or you run a  lot I think you run the risk of overdoing it   or damaging yourself your liver is susceptible  your muscles cannot be overworked um and so the   metrics that I would say is uh cortisol is a good  measure of overall stress on the body you want to   keep that down inflammation markers keep those  way down glucose levels keep them below uh you   know 80 milligrams per deciliter if you can as  a fasting level um hormones you want to measure   make sure your hormones are are optimized vitamins  minerals also optimal and you know optimal isn't   always what a doctor would recommend there's some  tweaks that we do for our clients Serena and I but   overall I think the average person with a you  know a little bit of spender coffee equivalent   a day can do a great job on monitoring themselves  and using the internet and their doctor as guides   on actually like trying things out like what do  you think about this idea of the right to try or   the right to experiment with medications that are  development and not yet FDA approved how should we   as a society have access or use those things yeah  well it's an evolution whatever's news there's a   lot of people that push back uh can you believe  that when I was in my 30s taking Resveratrol from   Plants uh was considered crazy uh I was criticized  for doing that and criticized for talking about it   um so you know I think that it there's a lot of  pushback on things that are on The Cutting Edge   um I do definitely believe that it's personal  choice there's nobody forcing you to to look   into metformin and Resveratrol and nmn  and take those things I think that what   I suggest is educate yourself it's not don't  just blindly take this stuff uh read about it   um there's a lot of literature out there my  podcast is a source of information as well   it's called lifespan as well as the book um and  using that information um then I think that you   can tiptoe into there you don't want to dive  in and suddenly uh do everything we're talking   about today you will not only fail you might  injure yourself so change a few things see how   you do see how you feel see what your doctor says  see what your blood tests say and go from there one thing I admire about you you you you actually  start a bunch of companies with the research   how do we I would love to see thousands  more come thousand times more companies   that are out there being started with all this  different research how do we encourage more of   this research to actually or or more people to  be starting companies around this type of stuff   yeah so the problem was that it wasn't  considered science until recently and most   of the government's U.S governments um money for  research went into disease cures and treatments   and they thought aging was not really a disease  though it's changing and of course I've been   shouting from the rooftops aging as a disease for  many years uh it's slowly changing maybe it's the   disease well it is and it's the cause of disease  as well uh the government's slowly changing you   know I would say we've gone from less than  one percent of the NIH budget now to maybe   one and a half percent it's still very little of  course and so a lot of the money that's coming   into this field is from donations from large and  small ten dollars to my lab makes a difference   um and they're you know of course there are big  philanthropist that are putting some money into   making drugs which cost hundreds of millions of  dollars so that's the extremes but even just a few   hundred thousand dollars in my lab makes a huge  difference we can make a a historical discovery   about molecules that can reverse aging in my lab  and that's really true for science it starts small   with a graduate student doing some research and  it can explode into something that's as big as   the discovery of the internet or uh or the it  wasn't Discovery the the uh the engineering of   the internet is probably a better word Discovery  the transistor discovery of antibiotics these are   pretty simple discoveries but they change the  world and they don't cost much money either   and can we encourage somehow encourage more people  to start companies commercialize or do this kind   of dual academic slash uh for-profit track or  yeah I think that unfortunately history mostly   through the 20th century academics vilified  scientists who did anything outside of the   Ivory Tower so communicating to the public was  frowned upon even talking to a reporter was not   really becoming starting a company was unheard  of 25 years ago if you're a young scientist it's   better now at least it's acceptable it's even  acceptable to have a podcast believe it or not   but uh there's not enough scientists who were  doing this um they tend to think that they they   don't have the skills now with people like me I'm  happy to Mentor people who have uh no experience   in starting companies it's important because not  only do they they don't even know where to start   but they can get themselves into trouble such as  not filing intellectual property the right way   or having investors basically take them for  a ride these are things that used to happen   um and I encourage any young scientists who's  got a discovery or even an older scientist   who's never done this to reach out to people  like me or me and we're happy to Mentor you   in the mistakes that we've made in our careers  mainly so you don't have to make them yourself   from from a healthcare perspective in the U.S  we're now spending about 20 of GDP on health and   that keeps Rising it seems a bit unsustainable  long term just the way we're approaching Health   like how what do you think really what do you  think needs to change for us to build a more   sustainable Health System yeah well I mean the  biggest problem really is that we're treating   diseases after they occur and often until it's  when it's too late cancer the the idea that you   wait till you get sick from cancer is ridiculous  uh that that's criminal and we still do it   um I I asked my doctor to give me a prostate  cancer test and he said well do you have a family   history no well hey do you have any symptoms no  well I don't think we should do the test I said   why would I wait till I get prostate cancer to  come see you it's crazy so that's the biggest   problem with with the health care system and the  cost is that we're treating diseases far too late   when it becomes very expensive so prevention is  really the the method and it's becoming less and   less expensive to detect cancer with just a  simple blood test soon it'll be pretty cheap   um these scans I think are going to be more  expensive that's not available anytime soon   to everybody though I would tell you it's it's  only about a couple of thousand bucks to get   scanned that's a lot for a lot of people but  you know coffee you know I've said is expensive   too so you've got to have your priorities  straight um that is where we're at I think   that the future really is that people will  be able to afford increasingly these early   detection systems and stay healthier for longer  now you might say well who cares if people are   healthy for longer that's still expensive right  turns out it's not true the longer people live   the less expensive they are when they die as  someone who's over 100 typically dies in their   sleep from a heart attack or kidney failure or  liver failure that's what I would want I don't   want everyone to die but I think that if everyone  can make it into their 90s or 100 then we won't   have those very expensive diseases that affect  affect people in their 50s 60s and 70s like cancer now a couple personal questions how do you think  of yourself as more of an Insider or an outsider   because you're you're often an outsider you're  you're saying things that are going against the   grain and people are are criticizing you  for it but that you're also a professor at   Harvard which is a very Insider type of thing  so you you're an interesting person where you   kind of marry both both worlds like how do you  think of yourself when you think of those labels   I'm definitely an outsider even at Harvard um   it's been a struggle there were a few times  when I thought they were going to kick me out   um for doing and saying things uh fortunately they  didn't I appreciate that they didn't uh but I'm   still seen as an outsider even in my department  who am I to write a book and have a podcast and   talk about supplements that's not becoming of a  of a world leading scientist what's been fortunate   is that I've been saved by the wonderful  people in my lab who have been been making   uh you know really history making discoveries  over the last 20 years and I think for that   reason uh I'm allowed a little bit more slack  than than average um but you know I'm not in   this to win prizes I'm not trying to be you know  the greatest academic ever I'm trying to change   lives and if that means pushing the envelope  and risking my career I'm happy to do that cool all right this has been great last  question we asked all of our guests what   conventional wisdom or advice do  you think is generally bad advice um that provide are provided by pundits or or  health professionals or who who do you think   any type of conventional wisdom about anything  what do you think is just like okay people   generally say this but this is Lots you know  I'm writing my second book and I've got a whole   uh and I love these because I like to  be like um um the in in sapiens when uh   uh Dr Harari was talking about things that you  think are real or not so one of the the big ones   is breakfast is the most important meal of the day  uh we've got a lot of childhood obesity thanks to   that adage I don't believe in that I haven't  seen a lot of data that says that that's true   um with with with a salad you need some protein  who hasn't had a waiter come up to them saying   Oh do you want some protein with that and I  have to remind them that plants are full of   protein in fact they're made of protein  so uh plant cell protein how about that   um they just have a nice ratio of amino acids  that are more conducive to longevity than meat   um wouldn't another one would be um let's see uh that uh you you shouldn't feel hungry during the  day so there's been this idea that you   shouldn't stress the body and um  and so that therefore we've been   told that we should be snacking and  keeping our glucose levels constant   um that's also wrong uh having uh small  spikes in glucose is actually perfectly   healthy as long as you have periods during the  day where you're not absorbing a lot of sugar   um orange juice uh cereals those in Industries  are full of lies uh you know you could just look   at the cover of some breakfast cereals and not  cover that outside of the box where they say you   know part of a healthy meal and all this healthy  breakfast really that's not the case so there's a   lot of food in our food supply that are marketed  as healthy they're full of fats and sugars that   we know cause disease and unfortunately uh  at a very early age we become brainwashed   oh this has been great uh thank you David Sinclair  for joining us to roll the dice I follow you at   David a Sinclair on Twitter you're also very  very big on Instagram I definitely encourage   our listeners to engage with you in those uh in  those mediums it's really great to talk with you   oh thanks Aaron for having me on it's been  great uh I haven't been doing a lot of podcasts   I've been working on my own and my second book I  really wanted to come on and thanks for having me   and brother when's the second because I'm  I'm gonna be the first person to read it   when's the second book coming out uh well a  met laplant and I are co-writing it uh we've   got our first draft and I'm filling in a lot  of facts I like to have density in the books   like lifespan and uh so probably next year  you'll see it come out so 2024 all right uh   let's let's work towards that I think it's it's  likely to come out about a year from now but I'm   not going to release it until it's as good or  better than life span was okay amazing well I   can't wait it's really great to talk with you  thank you so much thanks Lauren appreciate it foreign [Music]

Channel: World of DaaS with Auren Hoffman

Views: 72,390

Keywords: world of daas, venture capital, data investing, Flex Capital, the future of data, data company, venture capital in SaaS, data investing for SaaS, b2b saas companies, saas marketing strategy, Auren Hoffman, Desktop as a Service, david sinclair, dr david sinclair, reverse aging, sinclair lab, david a sinclair, extend lifespan, david sinclair nmn, david sinclair diet, david sinclair podcast, david sinclair 2023, david sinclair interview, dr david sinclair podcast

Id: NK-H8Uq3x0Q

Length: 51min 11sec (3071 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 13 2023