Dan Barker Shares in 1984 About His Atheism and Meets Annie Laurie Gaylor for First Time

[Music] I'm Oprah Winfrey if you have a drinking problem most people call Alcoholics Anonymous but where do you go if you're trying to kick a religion habit well I'm not talking about just cults but the teachings of every day churches Catholics Baptists Methodists my two guests this morning are a mother and daughter team who just opened a telephone hotline for anyone who's trying to kick religion any religion out of their lives later in the show you will need a former ordained minister and a former Catholic who did just that but first I want you to welcome my two guests maybe some of you don't want to welcome welcome to anyway my two guests from the Freedom From Religion Foundation and Christians anonymous hotline and Gayler and Annie Laurie Gaylor you know I'm sure that of course I love controversy that's why we invited you back and I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would disagree with the idea of kicking religion out of your life why do you need a hotline for it because a lot of people are trying to get religion and because religion is it's kind of an addiction it's kind of a sickness with some people and they need some place to turn if you go to the standard public library there's very little you can read about in the library and we get a lot of calls from former members who want information and so we opened this to public in general do you really we've had this conversation somewhat before do you really see it as a sickness or do you just not see or see it as as some people taking this as an option in their lives I want to be religious I can be religious if I want to doesn't necessarily mean it's a disease we do see it as a dependency let me give you an example of somebody who needed our service she grew up in a Pittsburgh in a Catholic home she went to parochial grade school rocío high school everybody she knew was Catholic all her relatives and then she went away to college and she had this faith versus reason kind of thing you get into and reason one and she had no place to turn when she went home wouldn't talk to her when she married her mother has said you can expect your baby to be born deformed and because you broke away from the one true church so she couldn't eat she couldn't sleep she felt terrible she had no place to turn to so that's what Christians Anonymous is for so you see yourself as providing a service a support service for people who have rejected religion that's right so you're taking a Xion ism one step further well we're helping we're holding out a helping hand so are you atheist are you yes you are I'm an atheist the organization Freedom From Religion Foundation is kind of an umbrella organization that we call the members mostly free thinkers they may call themselves atheists or agnostics or non deists you know I believe atheists have a right to be atheist and agnostic everybody has a right to be whatever they want to do as long as they don't interfere with other people's rights or or beliefs but if you're a theist I never understood and I think I may be I asked you this before if you believe you don't believe in God or a greater power or a Power greater than yourself so what do you believe like how did you get here and well um my life is free from religion it's not a negative thing it's a positive thing it is positive in what way I tell me because I don't believe in any supernatural deity particularly a male supernatural deity that is authoritarian and telling us what to do and if you don't do what he says you go to hell for example that's a very negative thought controlling kind what you believe in a female one though well I don't there certainly is a goddess movement afloat but I think it's more feminism than it is religion but it doesn't appeal to me so you believe that you have the you have total control over your life and you're responsible for what happens to you and there is nothing else well of course people don't have total control of their life I believe there's no supernatural control over my life it's same for you mom yeah I would agree you do so in starting this this hotline for people do people call up and say gee I've been Catholic or I've been a Baptist or I've been Presbyterian for years help me well they call because they're interested in in our organization or in getting literature Mason Mosley we give a lot of book referral why not just stop being Baptist or Catholic or a Presbyterian they many of them have been acculturated in religion for so long that they're not quite sure what the next step is once they've rejected it they feel a little lost what is your next step then what do you do what do you take well I think that most people who reject religion wants something to read one of our members think she's the only a theist in Wyoming and I don't think she is but you see they get that feeling if they live in a baptist community for example there's just no place to play I've been to Wyoming it's hard to deny God or supernatural power being in Wyoming I mean you look at the sky the mountains it's kind of hard to kind of say well I I'm not sure that people don't get in nature mixed up with supernatural things nature everything around you is very tangible and very concrete I don't think that is any proof at all for the existence of a supernatural how do you suppose it got here oh I'll give you a chance to speak later the front row Amen Corner you will have your chance well I got here the same way everyone else got here I think it has a lot more to do with women going through labor than it has anything to do with a male God okay well I tell you what there's so many people who want to get involved in this conversation I'm going to give me an opportunity to perhaps maybe there are some of you listening we want you the am viewer to join our discussion this morning if you're thinking about rejecting religion in your life right now if you have a healthy opposition to this new hotline call ours right now at five nine one nine thousand and tell us what you think of this conversation sure to be interesting here on am Chicago five nine one nine thousand we'll be back to take your phone calls and to talk to our audience members in just a moment on am Chicago [Applause] [Music] joining me now is a former ordained minister of 17 years who gave up his religion Dan Barker at a thirty-year devout Catholic who lost faith in her faith Rita Bell Dan and Rita welcome to am Chicago so tell me your story Dan I was one of the X Reverend right the X ray X Reverend yes I was one of those guys that would walk up to you on the street and tell you about Jesus Christ and would convince you to say the sinner's prayer would convince you that you were sinner deserving of damnation tell you about Jesus love read the Bible to you and pray with with people like yourself with many people I was an evangelist and I loved the gospel the the calling of the ministry and I've changed my mind what made you change your mind and I I could give a little bit of levity in thirty years of going to church and being a preacher I never got to sleep in on Sunday mornings she said boy jets know well Dan forgot his sake sleep in on Saturday but what is the real reason what you woke up one morning and you said what was a for me it was a five-year struggle I was always in love with reason and intelligence and truth I thought Christianity had the truth I really believed it I dedicated you become a Christian when your little boy I was raising the church at the age of 15 I dedicated my life to Jesus Christ I've accepted a calling of God in my life to be a minister to be an evangelist and at that age I went out started sharing I went out to I went to Mexico the mountains in the jungles of Mexico to share my faith four years travel the US standing in parks and street corners in telling people about Jesus love well a 15 year old evangelist 16:17 throughout I didn't it they're great I understand and I haven't really changed I'm still searching for intelligence and reason and values and I still love true I'm still the same person the same minister who wants to know what is real and what is true and I decided that the evidences for Christianity are not solid evidences the Bible is an unreliable document and it is a very uninspiring document and my heart cannot accept what my mind rejects after serious study and so you have decided what there is no God well I am an atheist now yes I do not personally hold a belief in God which which is the definite he went from 17 years of being a minister to not believing in God right does that say about you that means I was that means I was wrong I made a mistake I had a psychological delusion that my culture and my family were presenting to me as truth which I wholeheartedly accepted and what made you to come to what may has now made you come to the conclusion that there is no God to be an atheist doesn't mean a person concludes there's no God it means a person has no faith in God there's no evidence there's no substantiation for me to say I have a faith in God there may in fact be God but he's doing a good job of hiding himself if he's there if he's there I would accept him and you say well all of those 17 years that you were telling people on the streets and you're such a devout evangelist you had reason to believe there was a God what was the reason that you use them the reason was my own personal psychological feeling that I was in touch with a higher mind I prayed every day I saw suppose it answers to prayer I once laid hands on a person and said in the name of Jesus you are healed that person regained his lost voice I had all sorts of evidences so how do you explain that person regaining his loss well I can't explain it I'm a no physician I'm no sign there are many unexplainable things that I don't believe we should just give to God by default out of ignorance there there are other plausible explanations for the supposed evidences for Christianity so do you think that you had the power to lay out of hands I thought I did at the time I now know that I did not but I did think I did very interesting Rita what's your story oh it's a long story I was raised in the English Catholic Church which I think is very different to the American on and I was about as devout as you could possibly be for all over 30 years and in fact I even converted my first husband to Catholicism my second one I converted to feminism I think he's better I didn't really well I didn't question it that's the whole point I think the hold religion has over especially females in Catholic schools you don't question anything you blindly believe everything they teach you so when did you start to question I'm sure that you question how long I mean I was growing I would even the church tunic when I had blind faith like all my friends at school we all had blind faith and you didn't question you would taught from the day you set foot in the school you don't think of yourself you believe what we tell you and that was if well when my first marriage started to get into trouble and I made all the mistakes of not using any common sense to follow things I should have done I ended up in the divorce courts anyway and then I was all the while thinking I can't have a divorce I'm a Catholic you know like Bob Binney kept saying you can't do this you can't do this so instead of dealing with what happened I ended up in the divorce court anyway so well how can you stay practicing Catholic when you had a divorce it's really not possible so I didn't have any big battle or anything with them I just drifted away and then I started to think about things and then I started questioning things but I just take for granted never thought about it before I just started to think for myself what did you think what are the things that you started to think that you hadn't thought before well I remembered all the years when I'd followed things at the Catholic churches drummed into us that we were the only true faith and you shouldn't go in another Church because they don't have the true faith when I was a kid I didn't go to weddings and things in non Catholic churches because I believe hiren undergo yeah and then I was horrified years later when I thought about that do you think that you really are providing a service to people by quote helping them kick religious habits do you not feel that for some people there is really a need for religion in their lives for some people if there were not the Ten Commandments they would know how to behave well but and look at the Ten Commandments and there I just threw out three different versions of them but in all of them the first four Commandments have nothing to do with morality or how you behave they all have to do with what will happen if you don't worship the particular deity of the new the old in your Testaments and they're very inadequate they're morally an adequate they're phrased in a negative way they don't instead of saying thou shalt not commit incest or thou shalt not commit rape they say thou shalt not commit adultery I mean one is a crime the other is that she really should not be okay okay well answer the question it get this question and do you not think that there is a renewed for religion for some people in their lives well if there is maybe it is not for you maybe it's not for Dan or Rita or Annie Laurie but perhaps maybe for some people there is a need and how have you the right to tell them no you don't they're Christians anonymous service and the Freedom From Religion Foundation don't go around to the doors of churches leafleting people and saying how can you be so dumb as to go to church we're only there for people who have broken away or who are in the process of broken but when breaking away if someone's happy in their religion then we pose no threat to anybody you are on television saying this is not the way folks let me tell you [Music] [Applause] that's not all you know they whirring this is our way we don't need religion we were invited and that is true there's real plurality and we do have separation of state and church in this country it's very important that um minority views particularly those that aren't religious should be heard in this country as well they shouldn't be stifled and that's why we let you say them oh yes we'll be back in just a moment to take your phone calls get an interesting five nine one nine thousand movie actor talk to you all in just a moment on a mission go [Applause] [Music] [Music] keep on rejecting religion in your life and this man's been mumbling the whole round stand up here I get up I want to I want to hear what you have to say here obviously you have some comments to make my big biggest question is why do you find religion unreasonable to me I don't see any basis and reason for your beliefs being more sound than belief in religion I don't see any basis what you're talking about well for example Christianity can't decide among its Southwood is to there more than 250 denominations and you can agree amongst yourself what is true I mean obviously there is a great deal of discord and religion of questioning yes especially yeah hmm you see questioning is a part of religion if you take question you add up your legend that you don't have a religion based on any kind of maturity well that's not the Catholic churches is very differently it is no it isn't that oh honey have been go back to your sources go back to your documents of your church go back to your bishops go back to the Bible go bears your unreasonableness how do you read the Bible yes oh hey I better cover I have read the Bible it's pretty bird and if you read it in the context of the history of the time take the tenants at say in the Old Testament I for an eye and a tooth for 2x employ X okay during that context down there at that time period if someone did something wrong they would go and completely slow slaughter an opposing party that's right instead they said no do it by justice now okay that's not in my shoes no that's not you know justice system that said that it's a distributive just justice a mean I give honor to God because he's worthy and I thank God for being here and I'm saved and I'm sanctified God is real in my life and Jesus said they believe that I'm in the father and the father is in me and if you don't believe nothing else believe me for the works sake and the works is the trees the birds the bees love your enemy that's what the brother was talking about I guess on the ride well I haven't read it from cover to cover but gosh I is if you are a design thinking you should know what your I plan to if Jesus don't return soon and I would like to ask you all the question yeah what if it's true after all all right the Bible says that we the Second Coming arrives the whole world ends I should hope you wouldn't think it stinky okay you want to say what happened huh the question I want to ask you is if you don't believe in the supernatural guy and you don't believe in Jesus Christ - what do you base your decisions on right or wrong in your life I'm saying I don't believe just give you an excuse to do what you why not on what you see and I you Christianity is not synonymous with morality one of the most religious presidents we ever had was Richard Nixon and his vice president was probably one of the most religious vice presidents we have ever had he wrote you retired and disgrace can I met you yes go ahead morality there can be an objective scientific basis for morality outside of the supernatural outside religion based on the value of human life based on the fact that life is preferable to non-life making a hierarchy of value systems which has nothing to do with receiving an edict written in stone from a god I am free with a rational mind to determine a hierarchy of values which suits me fine and which helps me to protect myself from what I perceive to be you feel you're better off now but you've rejected religion in your life well I'm in control of my own mind now I'm not receiving orders from some mind that I don't even know what who was in control of it before I don't really know you don't know I suppose somebody no I I was basically I was living a delusion but believe I mean I think that it's said that you believe that you're born and then you die and that's it nothing else has a right to believe that but you know why is it yeah so why is that yeah what you guys are talking a time one person talking okay why is it sad because you got a leave here you show can't stay here and where are you gonna spend eternity you're done well you don't do it yeah I wanted to know enough please stand up no problem I want to know seventeen years you were minister you works right and you said you healed someone I didn't heal anybody what did you say you laid hands on someone in hands on him I laid hands on person who's lost his voice and you sing I haven't I said in the name of Jesus you are healed now you you raised God okay you used up all handy method though you don't even know and you gave it up now you would you could lay hands on someone now and I guarantee you couldn't you could not do it because you don't have the power of God anymore so how could you say that it's not real because there are many other explanations for what happened oh the first of all the power of suggestion is one people have been known through psychological motivation to do amazing things people are psychosomatically healed people have people outside of religion too amazing how do you explain walking on hot coals how do you explain a lot of these same no but they're not claiming faith in your God they're they're just claiming some kind of a mind controlling to same I don't understand yes I want to thank that there's someone out there like you because many horrible atrocities have been committed under the guise of religion such as people being killed children not being given the hospital care saying that all we can heal our people and the kids die okay you want to say what price day is a religion when the Bible was written a lot of it was imperils and who is to say whether you know to understand religion like God is within your own mind like a God within each person it isn't it simplistic is like a white male statue so that's what I'm saying I'm not saying whether they're right or wrong but I feel that they probably shouldn't be pushing their beliefs on everyone everyone has a right to believe what they believe let's see what have to say call her hello caller hi what do you have to say I would run and raise the carrot and by very good people that love me very much well these people my parents passed away so under no specific specific illnesses when I was just a kid and this was an abomination to me and I prayed and prayed and prayed and there was no one listening they say God works in mysterious ways well good for the no mystery but I was afraid to admit to myself that I didn't believe in God because I've always feared the wrath of God that was put inside of me there's good in religion but only for those who can't deal with it in a way where they're just not so involved that they believe so much on God that they can't believe on themselves because that's what really counts is believing in yourself and the earth that is our host and our living planet you're saying you asked your parents and you stopped believing in God after that pardon me are you saying that you lost your parents on me you lost your parents and as a result of praying to God not understanding how it happened or why it happened you lost your faith in God is that what you're saying in all that goes with growing up with our parents founded on that well my mother has a saying nothing fails like prayer unfortunately man nothing here a lot of people take issue with that nothing feels like prayer you say we'll be back to talk about that in just a moment Chicago [Applause] back on the RTM Chicago and who wanted to say something you did stand up here hi my problem with what's going on here today is that we've got two opinions that are at the opposite end of the spectrum that are just pulling against each other on what happens to the middle part if one believes in truth and beauty I can look at Oprah and look at the truth in her eyes I can go to Wyoming and look at the stars in the sky in the sky in the mountain guy in the mountains and see beauty why can't that be enough why must I say there is or there isn't why can I just joy what's here and what I find beautiful and pleasurable you can't just exist in there I mean I don't understand now that is great okay go ahead I think that she can I don't think everybody has to be involved in a group like the Freedom From Religion Foundation but we do have a problem in this country with the encroachment a state Church separation we have the year of the Bible being proclaimed by Ronald Reagan and we have all kinds of religious laws trying to be legislated so there is a real interest in many people that we continue the separation of state in church thanks for seeing the truth in my eyes to call her what do you have to say all I have to say is that uh the church is a institution made up of human beings and makes a lot of mistakes and I've been hurt a lot by the church but what I have done is instead of rejecting the church I've tried to forgive the people that have hurt me and tried to work on my own level to spread the law of love which sometimes the church forgets about and my life just try and make the church a better place to live for people thank house the church hurt you I want to know how the church hurt you around via customs and a lot of the traditions that have nothing to do with love there are just double bars and since for instance Jesus has been strong it's a mortal sin not to go to church on Sunday or it's you know you'll you know you'll go to hell sexual sins which are the most forgivable in my opinion and I think it's the law of love that we've we've rejected and therefore we've lost a lot of people because and people have turned away from God because the people in the church who forgot about the law alone okay what do you say to that hi hi Thank You caller oh well my call my comment is to for the lady the caller before him okay she said that she stopped believing a guy cuz her parents died or my mother died well my mother died when I was 16 years old and that didn't have anything to do with me not believing in God at that time I wanted to know why or what was the reason but that didn't stop me from believing in God God is real in an individual's life not if you killed my mother my sister my best friend then I stopped believing in him it's for yourself it's a personal and if you believe in God and you're saved in the beginning then it won't cut out if something happens down the line what do you think of people who say they're saved well I don't I I think that it's some kind of an exclusive club and it's supposed to make you feel better than somebody else but I don't think that anybody can live after they die believe in death after life not life after death and that's I think what we is demonstrated before our eyes every day I do have an objection or at least feel that women should think about their belief in a patriarchal male deity and the idea that men in the church can tell women what to do because God is male and that the Pope has to always be male because Jesus was now we're dealing with a real sexist institution I let you respond to that we come back in a moment I'm a and Chicago will take more of your phone calls again our numbers 591 9000 back in a moment [Music] to say I'm a doctoral candidate in clinical psychology and so I consequently in the course of dealing with people have seen how harm can occur from religion by the way in which people distort beliefs not necessarily what organized religion actually says but the way in which they perceive it or they grew up in it or they believed in it however on the other hand I've also noticed too that there's a certain value to the dignity of human life and a hope and a meaning that religion gives that enables people who are in the midst of severe depression and not being able to see up from where it is that they are that religion can give people a hope or belief in something outside of themselves when they don't find resources inside of themselves and so my question to you is what do you do in a case like that what meaning can you give to someone who finds no meaning humanly inside himself or from another human being that can somehow help him well or her of course I want to say that friends of mine who are psychotherapists do say that one of the ways they can tell someone is getting better is their obsession with religion diminishes so maybe that's what you found in your practice but I think that maybe religion especially for women Foster's this feeling that you have to be dependent on a male authority figure there are our eligible but there is there something to be said for the point that you just make people want their dying bad people who are and and the throws of illness who because of their faith in God whatever their religion may be feel that they are getting better and feel a sense of hopefulness because of it you can't deny that so anything is an anesthetic then go ahead and say what you want to say the ex revered religion in that case becomes a way of numbing yourself to escape from your problems with reality it's a way to gain some comfort within yourself so that you don't really have to face your own meaninglessness in an empty void or whatever your existential feelings are so what's wrong with that is there something wrong with that it makes you feel better well there's nothing to be gained by believing any miss truth no matter how benign might be it's better to face reality and realize that if a person wants me it is you who is saying it it's a Miss truth if that person that's true if that person is believing that it is true then it is okay for them yes I agree okay yes Dennis you said you really let me keep you like you didn't quite know why over here thank you if there was a god or not a god so how can you be talking about truth when you don't really when you're not really sure you may think that there is no god but you're really you really don't know so how could you be talking about truth because the evidence is for the judeo-christian to get this side do not hold water that particular patriarchal judeo-christian god that our country Revere's the evidence for him are not true they are not reliable and not founded evidences and on that basis I can say that Christianity is untrue evidence would you like it you want specific we're straying a little bit from her comment but the evidences of the inspiration of the Bible the evidences of the historicity of the gospel records we have no guarantee who wrote the Bible just point after point of supposed Christian evidences which substantiate the faith have been discredited to my mind into the mind of many intelligent people dan you didn't know who wrote the Bible for those seventeen years you were out there preaching wise that's right you know why because I didn't really studied as closely as I should have I swallowed it I believed it I preached it I studied it I preached from every book of the Bible I went out and I was more concerned not with scholarship but with winning souls to Jesus I wasn't concerned about the historicity of the documents back okay we are we are a nation of Bible illiterate and as many clergy persons have not really read the Bible just as many people here have not read it as discouraged from reading the Bible in the Catholic Church yeah in England you don't read the Bible at all having the Catholic school you don't how can you be not I thought that's what you didn't care learn your heart not survive well I want to ask the daughter here why is this so that you against preachers ministers all me and you know as being I'm for equality of the sexes and I'm pointing out that the probably the most patriarchal sexist institution in the world is organized religion so I'm opposed to sexism okay but the Bible says that we worship God in spirit and in truth so there's no male of female let's talk about what the Bible says we've been talking about how people don't know why they didn't talk about what the Bible says when we come back we have a commercial back in the movies [Applause] hello caller we're on the air and so are you hello good morning my question is if these people believe that being an atheist is not synonymous with being say a bad person then why not believe that they are going to reap some benefits from being a good person in their lives not necessarily having a face one way or the other why not why I believe that something is they're just going to die nothing else is going to happen why not believe they're going to reap the benefits and they does if they're good people you could reach meat benefits when you live I think that would be a lot more rewarding and this idea that life has no meaning if it's not everlasting just doesn't seem dependently excuse me like a very sound idea I think life does have meaning though it's not everlasting okay thank you call our hope that answered your question you wanted to say what hi yeah I'd like to say that we would get a get in a discussion about the Bible you seem to treat the Bible there's nothing more than a book of say lovely quotes such a large yeah no I don't love Li quotes it's a book of myths and fables and okay well our Bible is also a well-known historical book myths and fables the fall of Egypt and the Greeks and Romans Empire is told within the Bible and the Greek Empire was destroyed how do you think so how do you think that the Egyptian Empire was destroyed was it by someone invasion is this a test yeah I'm gonna fail this the Egyptian civilization of course is one of the older historic civilizations that we know about and of course it wasn't Christian at that time it was perhaps me what we would consider pagan well didn't you know that the Egyptian army was completely destroyed in the Red Sea after the Israelites are lost there are historical patches in the Bible and it does talk about names and places but it is not a history book or you certainly say it's a history book well I'm not saying that foreseen but if you're going to deny that a sense goodness if you're gonna deny that this Bible okay are used in Genesis okay Cuba man had to come from somewhere now you're not gonna sit up here and tell me that we came from our apes because in [Music] appearing on intelligent discussion she can tell you that she wants to she has a right to believe that are you believe me that a woman came from the rib of a man either well God created from a doctor to behave just and I believe it and I love God for it then I believe that woman was created by a rib of a man you do okay that's your belief that I'm right okay no you know what I have to come and I just want to be nice and calm okay go ahead yourself are you um I want to go way back because I still haven't heard either one of you answer how you govern your life what's writing what's wrong you still haven't answered all that you did their point is that Christianity has nothing to do with morality that you can hear what they have to say about Christianity morality I want to hear their viewpoint of morality or what is right for them in their lives how do they judge riding around without a God without a supernatural belief without a deity without anything that you say you don't need and you don't have how do you judge your own lives and let's forget about the Catholic Church I'm sure people may have differences but my answer is I apply the test of reason and kindness I use the yardstick of reason and kindness if I'm contemplating inaction is it reasonable is it kind and that's all you need can I comment on yes please dad I met a couple of weeks ago some people from Christian Research Institute to debate Biblical contradictions and one fellow pointed his finger at me and said if I shared your present atheistic philosophy you would be dead now I said I'd be dead why he says because I would kill you without the moral restraint of the Bible he said I would be a wild animal raping running killing stealing murdering thank God for the Bible who restrains me morally and I thought outside of war too because there are a lot of people who would do that but do you know what my people who would be that way had they not the Bible to tell them not to answer to him was you would find quickly that it would not be in your own self-interest best self-interest to try to kill me there are people like me who love life enough to protect ourselves from people like you we have laws we have reason we have intelligence you wouldn't last too long with that kind of a wild animal morality but do you not believe though that that man's point and the point that I made earlier is a very valid trying to get you to say yes it's a valid point because there are a lot of people who without the Bible without religion would be wild and crazy and go around shooting and robbing and stealing calling everybody at all in fact if you look at the history of this that Jack the Ripper's and the slashers and the what I call now serial murderers he the most recent one what's his name on wall Cox he was just certain no Henry Lee Lucas who's just apprehended is a born-again Christian today he's against abortion he says because that's taking in life while he's admitted to killing more than 350 women in his rationale for killing them is that there were all if you go back to the Bible what she believes in women are called throughout the Bible they're termed as dangerous people were apt to turn people away from religion they are even passages in the Bible of the Lord ordering women to be ripped into pieces because they're we have Jack the Ripper who is the guy in Los Angeles which killing them it was interesting motivating burgers you are a perfectly sane for this I'm talking about because first of all you're feminine you're a woman and you are turning people away from religion and inori any Laurie Gaylor you can the free thought today post office box 7580 sin wisconsin five three seven oh one free thought today plus office box 750 madison wisconsin 5 3 701 i'm sure you'll get a few letters [Applause] hi I'm I like to make a comment to the ex-minister but I like to say is um so what you're saying is that you really didn't know what you were doing you were just going along with what you thought was right and you never knew what you were doing all the time so that mean that you really weren't a minister anyway if you didn't know what you were doing right well first of all I still am a minister we all minister something to this world but I did believe at the time that I knew what I was doing I believe that God's touch was on my life that I had received a holy calling a confirmation I believe that the Bible spoke to me the Holy Spirit ministered to me and gave me direction I sincerely believed it and the Bible says by your fruits ye shall know them and the fruits of my Christian life had all of those fruits I've sacrificed I traveled I I gave I obeyed I gave it a 110% chance and it fails the test what's your weight loss woman has something to say yes first of all I love you Oprah never watched a magic hago but I do now thank you much okay I know we're welcome to our own opinions I understand that and I'm not putting you down but I feel very sorry for you because there is a bigger being and I could like to make I'm nervous like I like no one comment to what you said about prayer fails nothing feels like prayer nothing feels like hair because people pray everyday for things that never happen people pray everyday all the unanswered prayers rule the world can't God say no to your prayer if it's not good for you wait God can say no he's got a right that's right when I went to Catholic school in England we used to spend Oh every lunchtime praying for the conversion of Russia and all the Catholic schools in England prayed for the conversion of Russia they haven't done a very good job she was no it was wasted prayer was just great what to say what I mean they are really upsetting me I'm getting warm but I am a Christmas seriously ah this young lady here the devil has got hold of her and her mom you think I'm a witch no I'd look like I'm nothing my friend I guess because for the simple fact guy he has the right to do whatever he wants to do and if you feel that this Bible that I read and I do believe in is a bunch of rhetoric and lies on what have you then you're wrong you ask God to speak through you you're trying to libel your Bible or whatever he lives in my life and he loves me I bear witness to that I [Applause] asked you this a little earlier do you believe it that there is an evil force on earth no no you do not my Bible teaches and people to believe in devils and witches and look at what happened to millions of women in Europe who were burned and individually tortured and killed because they did somebody like you do not believe that they had the right religion cuz I'd like to say first of all Dan I get up on Sunday mornings I'm a church organist I've been doing it so I have no problem I was a pianist but the thing I would like to say is there I see in you the problems that I think have existed in religion throughout the centuries because you cannot logically prove God you can only prove God through your experience of God yes to life I tell you I wish I had more time but the but the hotline is Christian's anonymous if you're rejecting religion in your life this is the number you call 1 800 662 and there is a penpal even if you like you can correspond to people back in just a moment thank you all very [Music] want to join me for tomorrow show I see so many people on the streets and they say Oh free how do I get to come to the show I want to the tickets cost okra well the answers answer is you can come tomorrow and the tickets are free Oprah just call five nine one nine thousand now and reserve your seat on tomorrow's show you hear a heartwarming storming story of one single woman successful attempt at saving a five year old boy who was held captive in a prison for a murder that he did not commit it's an unbelievable story and on that same show Fiore Henry gaze on Regas who's a famous sculptor is going to be sculptor in my bust on the show call my head you know not my boss doing a bust of me anyway oh five nine one nine thousand two reserve yourself a seat right now for tomorrow show that's five nine one nine thousand we sort of gotten off the track edge but you wanted to say one thing here one final comment what if you're wrong what if you look what are your rub yeah I know I know what I believe and I know I have a chance at eternal life what if you are wrong what if you're wrong okay what difference does it make we don't believe in everlasting life what difference could it possibly make to it would you like to give them a try number again give the hotline number yeah if people want to call 1-800 1 6 3 1 1 2 3 8 at all it has been interesting having all of you we had some specially invited guests here today thank you all you're all wonderful thank you for very you [Music]

Channel: TheClergyProject

Views: 108,994

Rating: 4.8182907 out of 5

Keywords: Atheism (Religion), Dan BArker, The Clergy Project, Annie Laurie Gaylor, Oprah, Oprah Winfrey

Id: i_t17c7Zkts

Length: 43min 31sec (2611 seconds)

Published: Sat Mar 16 2013

Reddit Comments

[u/Epistaxis]

Fun fact: the younger female guest later became his wife.

[u/[deleted]]

There is a point in the video (37m in) in which Annie is talking about a serial killer who was killing whores "because whores turn people away from the Bible." A woman in the audience comments that "well, you're doing the same thing, turning people away from the Bible." Is she implying that the killer was justified?

[u/[deleted]]

Talking about the sky and mountains as proof of the supernatural. Jesus, Oprah is dumb.

[u/Mariospeedwagen]

Way to show your journalistic integrity, Oprah.

[u/OptimistAndAtheist]

I love how the daughter is constantly looking to her mother for confirmation and security, and how the mother is mostly quiet and letting her daughter shine.

Nobody else is looking to the older female. Oprah isn't. Probably nobody else is either.

It tells me a story of respect for your parent and love for and generosity towards your child.

[u/[deleted]]

Holy shit, these people 3 decades ago are talking like atheists do today. Are they ahead of their time or are we behind?

[u/nataskaos]

Sadly, we've not really progressed at all in almost 30 years.

Sucks.

[u/CaNANDian]

oprah on the voices in her head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3Vewrh7u7gQ#t=1861s

[u/astroNerf]

I'd be curious to hear whether Oprah's views have changed significantly in the the last 30 years.