Cybertruck E1 - Body Structure Comparison

[Music] [Applause] okay boys and girls here we are again we talked a little bit about uh this the other day we're going to be talking about a comparison between the cyber truck and its three competitors and what we're going to be talking about today is the body structure and the styling and as you can see as everyone knows this is a quite uh quite a polarizing kind of design it's like a for the old people mad max for the new guys halo kind of a design actually it looks just like the halo product uh in the video game this has got very aggressive lines what we used to call masculine before politically correct it looks like it's going to either take off or or or mad max is going to hop out of it the polarizing effect has caused some writers to call this thing the ugliest pile of rubbish on the planet and some folks like myself who take one look and say oh i love it that that polarizing effect is i think exactly what elon musk was looking for and he succeeded okay so let's talk a little bit about the body geometry that's what really sets this apart from everything else these are like i said before very hard or aggressive lines the lines give it its its uh its intrinsic value it it gives its style this is a really really unique way of making a product um these lines are here for another reason and that's because this is a very difficult material to try and form stainless steel is not your best friend when it comes to forming techniques so let's have a look at these lines that you see on the ford and the chevy and the ram these lines are impossible absolutely impossible with anything that's anything that's hard like a stainless steel especially if it's thick remember too these are very thin because all they do is basically direct the wind in a new direction and give you styling this kind of stuff can't be done in a 300 series stainless steel as a matter of fact elon musk said uh he had a quote on a twitter he said the reason the cyber truck is so planar is that you can't stamp um ultra hard 300x steel because it breaks the stamping press and that's kind of true so when you wanted to have the the product that that he's got here where we're looking at um an exoskeleton unibody um what you need is you need to have simple lines and simple forms otherwise you'll never get you'll never get this thing to come together properly stainless steel has limitations just like everything else and the limitations basically are going to be forcing you into a different kind of stamping operation this is not going to be like that this operation here is going to be very very very simple maybe even just using press brakes as opposed to using great big giant stamping dies to crank out fenders or doors or what have you [Music] one thing i'd like to point out because people will tell you that this kind of styling that you got here this is for aerodynamics bear in mind that this is looking more like the front end of a f f 22 so we we we are looking at aerodynamics being done in a different way if we if we look at the the geometry that we've got here in this product so most of the trucks that are classified as heavy duty or even light duty i have a body on frame construction the the body on frame allows for independent movement between the cab and the actual box the reason for that is because these trucks are made for work duty loads and they go off-road and and so consequently that twisting action in the old days anyways helped out um since we've got modern suspension systems it's not as important but it is what it is so this type of construction has uh as you can see here quite a number of quite a number of pieces let's go and have a look at a unibody style truck the only one really that that we can talk too much about is the honda ridgeline which really from there forward is a honda pilot and uh and they cut that off and turned it into a pickup truck have a look at the number of bits and pieces that you see inside here this is what gives you the strength of the unibody now this body does not twist much there may be some twists but not much and so consequently this is looked at as a very light duty type of type of pickup truck so this is a unibody without a frame but this is different because this is an exoskeleton that is an endoskeleton it's inside so the skeleton acts just like your body in protecting you with the ridgeline but now what we're looking at is more like a turtle so that's got an exoskeleton and that exoskeleton has got strength built into the outside walls this this product over here what you're looking at with uh with the endoskeleton is something that's going to hang all the cute features and fix fixtures and features that you see on these trucks all the styling and whatnot that's that's what's really sitting on the outside it's just a skin so when you get into this kind of a product there will be very very very little twist almost none and quite frankly for this type of a product and the fact that it's got an air suspension system that'll be just fine there's virtually no reason why this wouldn't perform as well as or better than uh the the three that we've got here so all we can say about this is that everything here is dramatically opposite to that and dramatically different to the to the folks here who are using body on frame so let's talk about the cyber trucks material of choice this is a 3-0 x the x means that they're not telling you what that last ingredient is in the cold rolled stainless steel that they're going to be using we can guess at it but for right now we're just going to call it 30x this material was developed and borrowed from spacex so my guess is that this is going to be something that's going to be ultra hard it's probably going to resist corrosion significantly and also make it so that they can develop the product with simple stamping methods so this isn't the first vehicle on the planet that went with stainless steel um there's been others one famously was the delorean which was a 1980s type of product it had initially started out similar to what the styling was here on the cyber truck but unfortunately they used the same kind of system as what you've seen here so over the top of the endoskeleton they had put stainless steel panels they were very thin they had in many cases of plastic backing it was a disaster and a miserable job to try and make happen and the reason i know a little bit about that is because i actually worked on the delorean and it was a miserable experience to say the least because i was on the end of the program the program was already over it was in production and they were trying to make things happen the reason that delorean went with the stainless steel was the same reason that we see the um the stainless steel cyber truck and that was to try and figure out how to eliminate the 500 million plus that you're gonna have to spend in order to get paint okay so the experience that that we've had basically with stainless steel is if this is truly done similar to what they've got here they will not need paint and we already heard about what i had to say about paint just skip it i'm not really interested in doing paint and definitely not interested in chrome if i don't have to do it so this this idea right here with the exoskeleton using the stainless steel and making it so that it's uh basically a cost save a cost save in that uh my tooling and the simplification of manufacturing has been has been helped out and quite frankly all this can be melted down so it's recyclable so green if you like okay so now we're going to talk a little bit about tooling and as many of you know that's where i started out i was a tool maker i used to work on dyes and molds and stuff like that before i got into engineering but you don't have to be a tool maker or an engineer to have a look at this simplistic kind of design and think about okay what would i use to make these parts well i'd be cutting this out maybe with a water jet i'd be probably taking this this hard line here and bending it in a simple break i would probably be looking at very very little time to develop the design because quite frankly it's not going to be a big deal to design something like this for uh for uh for structure and for crash worthiness and qualification and then on and on and on okay so this is kind of like simple and less expensive and that's the mineral mantra when we design products we try and make it so that they can be as simple as possible we try and eliminate as many parts as we possibly can and we try and get rid of fixtures and functions that really don't add value to the customer so when we're looking at something like this this kind of follows almost every design rule that monroe uses when it teaches how to design for lean so anyway so we look at this and we say well what about some of the features that may be a bit tough okay so there are tricks and one of them is a laser etching and you put a laser edge on the back and then you come down and bend it and it bends nicely all by itself so the next thing you'd look at is what about welding how how do i how do i put this thing together well this is stainless steel probably a hundred percent and that means that you're going to be using tig tungsten inert gas welding and now that's tough for operators to do but um but welders welding welding i should say for for this product is probably going to be done mostly by robots and robots like tig so now let's talk about a little bit about the complexity that you'd see here versus the complexity you see with the honda ridgeline interior the endoskeleton have a look at that okay this is uh hundreds of dyes that have to be made in order to make this all happen this costs millions and millions in fact in some cases we've seen them billions because they have three three sets of moles and or dies rather in order to make this stuff so you're talking tremendous amounts of money and then when you get all done with that hey what are we going to hang on top of it i've got fenders and remember we talked about class a surfaces before these are not cheap these these dies are not cheap and then they've got to be painted and then they've got to be installed with nuts and bolts and whatnot all that stuff disappears on the cyber truck look at all these fancy little doodads that they're sticking on the front well that stuff all disappears as well because that thing is making everything disappear also with the exoskeleton a lot of that stuff for sensitivity as far as uh as far as damage and whatnot that all kind of goes away and what uh what we think is that as you move towards something like this those little serviceability issues you know somebody uh releases their grocery cart or whatever and it hits the side of your car well with one of the uh one of the conventional vehicles you've got a paint chip with this you got a badge of honor i drive a jeep anybody that doesn't have uh anybody that doesn't have scratches on a jeep basically isn't a real jeepster we people who drive these kinds of vehicles something that looks like this like i said uh mad max kind of a car this kind of a thing is totally different mentality than what i have with my truck which is my pride and joy kind of a thing i think i think that this is probably one of the biggest things going for it is the fact that if it does have a a small crack or a small scratch or or even a big one all it's going to do is make the it's going to make the the truck look better okay we talked a little bit about the the the rationale behind how tesla did what they did and why and now we're going to do is we're going to try a little comparison between what the cyber truck is probably going to be doing against its competitors and we're going to start off with the ford f-150 this this truck is pretty innovative it was the first truck to come out being aluminum it's got lots and lots of lots and lots of followers they they sell 800 000 of these vehicles a year and quite frankly at the beginning they had their fair set of challenges the uh the car the car had lots and lots of uh little issues when they first got it out and their and their uh their competition jumped all over them uh but there are certain things that i i see as a big as a bit of an issue normally i like to see a white car but this is a black car and even on a black guard you can start looking at whiskers that come out here and go up there and the same is true here and here and here and there and there and rabbit ears are usually caused because of the radius that you're going to have when you put in the door handles or the door mechanisms these uh these things are something that you try to get a rid of you don't want to have that this car has been around for a long time of all of them this is the oldest design so you would expect that that sort of thing would be disappearing the body and the doors and the other major components like the the lift gate all of those parts are are made out of aluminum aluminum like stainless steel is resistant to corrosion but obviously ford still continued to paint the vehicles where aluminum doesn't really compare favorably to stainless steel in its durability and impact resistance aluminum is simply much softer material and as a softer material it gives you different challenges when you start to manufacture so the tooling and manufacturing expertise a little different a major consideration in making the move to aluminum was the need to develop new expertise and tooling know-how aluminum as you may not know actually eats up dyes like there's no tomorrow because aluminum oxide with a little bit of dirt will give you the same material that a grinding wheel is made out of although it sounds simple it is throw in a new material and start stamping it using conventional methods there's much more to it than meets the eye people that basically have spent their entire careers their entire life perfecting the nuances of of stamping steel and manufacturing plants are definitely wary about switching to new materials aluminum given its softer properties is more easy to deform but if you push it too far you can get wrinkling and tearing and basically you can compromise the material properties aluminum also gives you what we call the rational spring back so sometimes what winds up happening is you get a a little surprise when you're drawing you're trying to form the stuff in that um initially it's in the right shape and then as it moves down the line it changes its shape and uh the guys on the factory floor have have some problems ford's now had a time enough time to to really dial in their manufacturing processes and they've proven that aluminum can be can be done well as far as trade-offs the aluminum is certainly more expensive than steel but it allows the body uh to drop significant amounts of weight which helps fuel efficiency ultimately that saves the oem's money in the form of of reducing emission penalties cyber truck uh by contrast will be the using the heaviest material of all with that 30x ultra hard stainless steel that's almost three times as dense as aluminum and it's also quite a bit more expensive okay let's look at the chevy silverado gm has been around for a century cranking out heavy duty light duty trucks similar to what we've got here their material of choice has always been steel but lately they've changed their mind a little bit this is a relatively new design and what they've done is they've done all the closures basically in aluminum so the hood is made out of aluminum the doors both the doors are made out of aluminum and then we get back here and we find that the the tailgate is also made out of aluminum now the body or the the base of the box is made out of steel however it um it's not always the same so what we've got is the chevy but it has a sister called the uh called the gmc and the gmc decided that they were going to try something a little bit different so they've got a about an 800 option here to get the what they call the carbon pro box and the carbon fiber is here here here and here the other materials that they put in place are glass fiber which is the green plastic trims which are basically blue steel again the outside the outside fenders are steel aluminum is in black so they've done a good job at trying to trying to push the market a little bit into carbon fiber which is a good idea i've always felt that carbon fiber for a box would be the right thing to do as a matter of fact if i was going to make a suggestion i would suggest that ford skip the aluminum and go to a carbon fiber box because it's a lot more rugged so this sounds like it's all revolutionary but it's not the first time for gm gm made another product that that basically was in a chevrolet and it was it was made out of it was made out of a composite a plastic it didn't work or it didn't gain a traction because there's a draft angle it came out in one piece and there's a draft angle that that has to happen and that means that you start off with four feet at the top but by the time you get to the bottom it wasn't it wasn't good for the guys who were doing construction and things like that so this is gm's hanging their hat on something like this i think this is a good idea here we are with the ram the ram actually is uh is my favorite it's probably my favorite for a lot of reasons but for the most part i like the features and functions that this has got that the others don't have ram decided that they were going to put their money on those features and they skipped some things that were a little different or or maybe thought-provoking for other places so what they've done is they've they've given us an aluminum hood the tailgate is also aluminum but the doors the doors are still steel so the reason for that is because uh they wanted to put their money where people were going to see the the the features and functions this is one uh truck of the year a couple of years in a row and and that's because it it really inside is a lot more feature functional so this product as uh conventional similar to what we would see over on the silverado um it's made out of steel and um and but they've done some different things and we'll talk about those later on the inside so let's uh let's summarize a little bit about the difference between the cyber truck which we look at as its own separate island it's different than everybody else the cyber truck is into territory that other people really uh have uh have no desire to get into and as i mentioned i really don't think it's a true competitor to these the other big dogs here but they're going to have a few probabilities of having problems one is i don't know where they're going to get all the stainless steel they need in order to hit the kind of targets that they want for sales it's going to be it's going to be a challenge for them but it also creates a brand new type of world no one's done this type of a design ever that i know of except for military type of vehicles and uh and quite frankly um you got to applaud them just for the the fact that they're going to be doing something that's inventive and new and different their their problems that they're going to have are probably maintaining some of the tolerances and dimensional stack ups that you're going to have trying to avoid spring back which is something that you do see when you're fooling around with with stainless steel but if they pull it off there's a lot of advantages and again the biggest one no paint shop when you're trying to start up a a a car or a vehicle of any kind you have to look at whether or not you're ever going to get your money back your investment costs are the things that you have to think about and with this product here it's going to start off with simple tooling and then on top of it it doesn't have to have a half a billion dollar paint job i think that avoiding paint is a is a great idea because really now i don't have to sync with sequence colors i i mean there's a thing called an oddball line and that that oddball line will never be needed in this kind of a product the body shop is going to be considerably smaller and we're going to be looking at at easy matches easy matches for well side mirrors which it doesn't have door handles and things like that all these all these different functions and features that kill you on the assembly line are are missing on this product so we've got uh we've got uh quite a bit of competition that we're going to see here with that i'd like to basically close off i'd like to say that that we are selling uh the reports for information you can email sales at leandesign.com and uh that uh that'll that'll get you into seeing our guys and then they can help you out with motor analysis inverter converter analysis the octo valve and heat pump so uh all those all those different kinds of reports are available for you um either now or in a week or two so anyway thanks so much for watching we're going to be coming back with videos it won't be as frequent as before but we're going to make sure that that you kind of got a good grip on what's the difference between the cyber truck and its three competitors make sure you tip those uh those uh cashiers we are still in still in the throes of this this virus thanks a lot have a great day we'll see [Music] ya [Music] you

Channel: Munro Live

Views: 437,770

Keywords: Cybertruck, MunroAssociates, Trucks, Ford, Chevy, Ram, Chevrolet, Elon Musk, EV, BEV, Tesla, Tesla Motors, Sandy Munro, Munro, Electric Vehicle, Benchmarking, Electric, Insight, Lean Design, Design, Comparison, MunroLive, MunroLive.com, Competitive Benchmarking

Id: YQSQYQ44Qco

Length: 26min 16sec (1576 seconds)

Published: Wed May 27 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/Sk0rtch]

"This reminds me I worked on the DeLorean"

[u/foggy01]

The man is a national treasure. Absolutely fascinating and love the added production value he has added.

[u/OneLonelyDev]

Didn’t get this in my YouTube feed, thanks for posting here!

[u/[deleted]]

Damn... he started the series with the Model Y right? I wish I could watch one about the 3.

[u/Monsjoex]

Nothing about how the truck incorporqte a crumple zone effect. And i didnt understand it completely. The exo skeleton is outside you still need to weld a lot of stuff to it no? So i didnt get the comparison with the super complicated stamped car.

[u/Sk0rtch]

How important is durability in a pick up truck to a professional ? Like if your truck lasts longer than 2 - 3 years and you don't buy a new one, does it just mean you have nothing to write off and lose the money in taxes instead, or is a truck that lasts 10+ years in Alaska instead of 2 money in your pocket ?