Courtney Dauwalter - World’s Best Female Ultramarathon Runner | Keep Hammering | Ep. 015

every step I take I move my move my time they tell me stop by you every comment hate that makes my feel gather up my energy in the way that I'm moving so reckless that is a part of my mind I've been blessed with giving my blood so I am relentless this is a keep hammering Collective with Courtney dewalter how are you I'm great how are you I'm doing good we've uh had quite a run the last three days it's been pretty fun huh it's been amazing we packed it all in yeah we've we've made the most of our time um thought we might have had a little break this morning maybe and then decided to fill that time up too well if there's time to fill an Adventures to have you should do that yeah yeah so it was like late last night felt like we had a good day of course we started off with 100k which is hard for me I'll be I'll be honest you're uh you're built for that I was like this is good but difficult so we did 62 miles then yesterday did the normal lift run shoot run the mountain carry the rock shoot the bow eat some food lift some weights and it felt like a good day right oh it was a great day but there was something lingering yeah man the back of my head so when did I I text last night like was I like nine or two I don't know what time it was but I'm like we have not run the the mountain and we have not summited in the dark you said something about we hadn't run with a headlamp yet so we made the plan to get up early this morning go get a dark Summit in we're the only one I pretty much only ones on the mountain I think was there one other person there uh yeah those two people coming down yeah and then um so got that that was awesome and then there's still some unfinished business with the shooting why don't you tell us what happened there oh man well yesterday at the borac I felt really nervous shooting I felt really uncomfortable with it it was barely hitting the target at 10 yards but had great teachers and so when we went out to the farm and got going further away I got the satisfaction of a balloon pop right and then we backed it up even farther and we were trying at a hundred yesterday for what was that like 10 hours of shooting no no we we gave it a valid effort though a lot like my arm was just quivering it was rubber by the end of it and that's a long shot with a bow like that at you know 35 pounds at arrows in the air for a while I mean it's up there yeah so I was thinking of that 100 yards all afternoon yesterday thinking like I wonder when I'll get another shot at trying that right and uh it's not often that that's that situation is there where you're set up you got a place to shoot 100 yards everything's you know just it's like what we do here so it's got to take advantage of things like that exactly so we had to buzz over there this morning and see if we could get it done and we did yeah my heart rate is still elevated I'm like so fired up from it so I mean just to set the stage too we set up her brand new bow yesterday and you know it takes it's a process getting that dialed in there's a lot going on there's a shooting uh a bow there's technique there's different things people do with their eyes dominant eyes uh eyes closed eyes open shooting changes everything and that 10 yards so you just to put this in perspective one time you change close one eye or open an eye anyway hit this ladder in the background and it was like just drill and I thought we were deleting all that footage I thought we weren't mentioning it again no no no yeah I'm not I mean no well this will definitely be scrubbed this won't this won't make the cut but uh So Courtney felt bad she hit the ladder until we looked at the ladder and there's holes all up and down it so no no biggie but to go from learning the basics of the brand new bow and then like I said struggling with the you know eyes closed eyes open changes it kind of the the pin jumps back and forth a little bit to go from that to go out this morning just one day later not even 24 hours later because we were out at Sunrise to try to hit this hundred yard balloon but not even 24 hours later to be shooting and your group besides the balloon hit the group was great you know all your arrows were right there yeah 100 yards it felt like night and day from yesterday yesterday I was definitely still on the stage of thinking through every detail like how to hold my fingers where the pressure was like where's my nose where's my eye everything and today it just felt like the repetition paid off yesterday yeah like the motion felt a little bit better and so I can see why shooting you know regularly every day if you could would make you you know dial it in and be that much better at it yeah I mean on that footage that I filmed you shoot that one at 100 101 101 yes yeah 101 not the Dalmatians the yards and I was like you pulled that bow back and I I on there I said I like the confidence because you just had this like okay I'm gonna this is happening right now I was talking to that arrow in my head yeah you you were in the zone yeah I'm like come on buddy and the way that worked is we had like landmarks back on the if you've watched the video back on the far Hill it's like a couple miles back there but that's where the reference point was for Courtney to hold her bottom pin was back on those trees we had two if you can imagine two little patches of brush that looked like lungs is what we said so we had the right lung and the left lung okay first we started to write long no that's too far right okay hold on left long okay hold the top of the left along and it's like these are Miles Away back there but we had these reference points and and we were both picking it up and uh you held on there perfect and oh it was glorious yeah it was glorious I'm gonna slow-mo watch that video uh often but it's really strange to be pointing at not the thing that you're trying to hit yeah like I couldn't even see the balloon right I would see it when I first Drew and lined it up but then once I scanned you know way up you're aiming in the trees yeah yeah that's crazy yeah yeah there's so much art to that Arrow um but then yeah Wayne and Lisa they were in the house there which is a ways away from where we're shooting they're like well I guess they must have hit it because we were yelling and hooping and hollering you were running around and I don't know it was uh it was quite a spectacle but it was like so so uh genuine because we had we were vested interest you know what I mean we were we needed to see that balloon pop yeah we got the thing that we were going after I was thinking about all night I'm like please can we just and I said even on the way out there I was like even if it's just lucky can we just get a lucky one but it turns out your group was it wasn't luck it was total repetition and skill probably some luck and some good teaching and a good setup a good thing to aim at wow we we had a lot of things fall in our favor not only today but just in the last few days this has been a great honor for me to have you out here um we've been you know friends off and on not not off but friends for a while and got had the chance to get together and run a few times had some great adventures but to have you come to Eugene Oregon to where I grew up and we did a big tour of the city and just to show you all the things that like were kind of important to me as I grew up and and sharing some of those memories um you being somebody who I look up to and inspired by just because of how hard you push and and the example you said and just um how you're a home in the Mounds and are really pushing that threshold as an outlier in the Women's Ultra running space and not just I even I hate even sane women's because just in ultra running in general you were just like pushing the envelope and really shining a light on a sport that really hasn't got a ton and it should because these athletes you know you included work so hard for such a little Fanfare you know I mean you look at the other major sports and not saying that they don't sacrifice but the amount of sacrifice into becoming an elite Ultra Runner is unrivaled to me um just the dedication you have I mean how do you look at it how do you look at where you're at well the cool parts of ultra running is that really no one's in it for the Fanfare no one gives a hoot if anyone knows about something they did it's about you know huge days out in the mountains seeing what your body is capable of and seeing then how your brain can help your body do even more yeah I think well you say nobody's in into it for that which I think some people do get into it like thinking hey maybe I could be known here but that doesn't last very long because it's so hard if you don't love it you're not going to be around yeah yeah if you don't really want to be doing it if you're at our 20 puking in the bushes like that's not gonna stick you're not gonna stay with it yeah there's no there's no quick quick uh rewards I mean it's all hard earned um and I mean I'm fascinated by like your journey and just you know I know all about your history and I know about your first races and where you are now but um as somebody did throw in a question which kind of curious about I know you'll give the politically correct answer but do you hate to lose or love to win that's like kind of a cliche thing but it's like I I feel like you're like a competitor you love the competition but what part of the competition is it to do what somebody hasn't done before like faster maybe because you talk about push maybe reach new limits or is it just not wanting to lose like if I finish something and know that I could have done better so my it's not loving to win or hating to lose I think it's more like um if I'm gonna do this I want to do it all the way all in see what's possible you know and keep learning and growing from that and uh where that lands me and the results is where it lands me um does that you gave your best effort yeah I don't wanna I don't wanna cross a Finish Line ever and think like man there was that Five Mile Stretch where I was just dogging it and you know got a little bit into a pity party or um you know didn't problem solve and I just let this thing get bigger than it should have been I want to know that I did every bit of that course as best I could and cross the finish line giving it everything I had on that day but then I also hope the next time I go to that same course that I could find the area still to improve and do it better have you had a race where you didn't have those lulls where it didn't have any lulls yeah because you said that you don't want to have that five miles pity party but is that that seems like it happens yeah on almost every Journey for sure I have never had a perfect race where I was like that was it yeah yeah and I hope to never I never have a perfect race yeah yeah because then what like if if you nailed everything in it and you see no areas to improve then yeah where do you go from there I understand I do I I do that makes sense that you just want to push because I can think back to the One race we ran I didn't even know you at this time but it was a MOAB 240 and you were winning I had and I've said it before I thought you went the wrong way because I was like keeping track of or asking who was leading where they were and you were so far out early I'm like no way there's no what there's no who because I hadn't heard your name and I'm like what how could some how could some woman be that far ahead of everybody and so I thought well you must have went the wrong way but uh alas you didn't you're just crushing it but I think um to your point is you won by maybe 10 hours and they've talked about it in a million times but it's just incredible how much you won by but you could have easily coasted in you could have won by two hours and you know but you but so tell me were you still pushing yeah absolutely and you weren't you weren't worried about the Gap you were just worried uh you weren't like I want to send a message to these people I mean I don't know I hope you were because that'd be kind of cool because you're so nice it's like I want to see like with that Killer Instinct But but so what were you thinking I just I have more so I want to push yeah it was like let's smash the gas pedal down and see because why not um and you can make them like targets you know as things unfold so I think at that point we had my husband was pacing me and we had chosen a time where trying to be just to have something to like help keep the gas pedal pushed down and what was it so what was that race was 60 some hours in that first one or was it 58 uh Moab 240 was I think 58. okay so you probably had I want to break 60. yeah for a while yeah and then is that like pretty commonplace for each race is you like so you have a big goal and then you readjust throughout the the race yeah I think it depends what how it's going or what it is on you know what the thing I'll dangle for myself is because often I don't have any time goals like going into a race I won't have a Time plan I'll know you know what people run on that course typically so I'll be able to gauge my effort like this is a 14-hour effort or this is a 58-hour effort you know just to know where to put the dial um but then as it gets later in the race yeah you can just find Targets to shoot for to keep yourself accountable and keep pushing so when you go to like UTMB which what does that stand for Ultra Trail Mont Blanc right is that the most famous like uh International race do you think yeah I would say for um Mountain Trail Ultra so it's a 100 mile race around Mont Blanc so it goes out of Germany in France goes through Italy and Switzerland and then back into France this must be amazing country it's so cool you got to get out there I know well that I watched your the videos and the updates and the photos it looks iconic for sure um but when you go into a Race So your first was it your first year there that you won was that your first time running that yeah so how does what's your mindset going into that do you look at like okay this woman won this time I feel like looking at this course I could run that time or better and then you go by that or do you look at who's also running the race oh man um probably yeah I would look at like typical finish times history yeah what is the range that women are finishing in what's the amount of climbing what have I done before that might be something similar and like what kind of Pace does that Translate to but once it starts I'm not looking at Mile Pace ever I'm going totally off of feel and just hoping to trust myself and make a good call on how hard to push and when to push but I think one of the cool things of these Mountain races is that everyone has different strengths and weaknesses and so um if you're a really good climber or a really good defender or you know your sections because you can get splits from historic times too of like when they got to these Aid stations and your splits might be totally different because maybe your strength skill set yeah do you do you ever get sucked in like to start a race like do you ever go in in like a race like that the guys are usually a little bit ahead for the women do you ever think I want to try to stick with the leaders I mean do you or do you is it too you don't want to think about that to start off like the lead men yeah just like the lead pack if you take off uh usually I don't I don't care what they're doing okay because it seems like and I remember I mean you you hang tough you run hard the whole time but it does seem like and I don't know if they're fading coming back to you or if you're pushing more where you get like more of that okay your um you know Finish Line's coming it seems like you reel in people like I remember maybe I'm just thinking of that race in particular where it's like God you're freaking climbing because that's such a a huge race in the in the ultra running world it's like very rare for a woman to be up pushing and then you were up to like sixth or something but if were you reeling people in at that time yeah kind of um and I have been over the years trying to work on that like second half endurance and second half strength and the second half mental game of like you don't let up on the gas pedal just because you've been already running for 50 miles like this is when you purposefully smash it down so the first part of the race might be you know management hold it in the orange you know be pushing but then uh towards the end it's uh going all the way in and hoping that I can hold on and trying to grow that ability to hold on to make it you know okay I know I can push for the last 10 miles so now this time if I move it back can I hold it for the last 20 miles right and you get to where every stride is an effort yeah I mean like you have every because it'd be so easy to just be like I just need a break just walk but and uh but you're pushing every stride that can that's exhausting yeah it's full uh just focusing on that one next motion and do you like are you thinking all the way your complete stride like pushing off with toes all that are you like trying to break it down or are you just like just effort just effort and hoping that my leg will do what my brain is asking to land under me right well and so you talk about every Runner has strengths weaknesses what's your what's your strength no I mean you said every Runner has better at Hills yeah yeah what would you say is if you had if you had yours you know a profile and like they always say Fighters are you know they rank them on um Jiu Jitsu or wrestling or striking and then they kind of rank them on where the where their skill set like their black bone Jiu Jitsu but they're a new Striker you know so like if you had to look at your profile what would your strength be where's your highest scores so my lowest scores are for sure technical like super Rocky Steep downhills and uh probably like top end speed would be my lowest and uh the rest of them I don't know that there's like a highest or if they're all just floating there in the middle and um I'm pretty sure it's not middle but go ahead and managing the transitions between it all you know like not having too much of uh like your weaknesses aren't so weak they're killing you I mean of course you'd want the strengths to be as high as possible but having like your deficiencies aren't that bad right so where you can is that what you're saying trying yeah trying to shore up your weaknesses I guess and then it'll bring the Baseline of performance up higher Yeah by having the like those valleys not being as deep that would be the hope so I don't I mean so when I answer that question I instantly went to like the things that I want to keep working on because you know whatever my profile is that I'm maybe better at or stronger at uh doesn't matter to me if I have these things that I can still improve greatly on right I guess I if I thought about it so say if you're if your strength was climbing how much are you going to really improve if that's already strength whereas if your weakness is downhill maybe you can make huge improvements there and then overall you'd be that much faster you know it's it's uh yeah I think sharpening the dull blades yeah yeah I think that makes that makes sense so it's technical downhill you like to work on anything else uh speed just general turnover speed um and then just continuing to grow you know like I think of endurance and strength like you're building a little bit at a time and so it just takes that consistency of adding another little bit to it so if I can keep on growing the endurance so that maybe it's uh more possible to push even harder like get into another so how do you grow the endurance is like that to me like like uh layman's terms would be like oh I need to just run more just give more miles and how do you look at growing endurance uh just consistently adding to it adding to the fire a little bit at a time I don't think it like for sure you don't want to just keep training more that's how you go over the edge of that you know and start breaking down instead um so I guess adding little bits to the fire every day through just consistent work and then signing up for this stuff that's hard and trying and just seeing and learning from it yeah Taylor I was talking to him the other day and he said it took him a while to everybody wants those big mile weeks he said it takes them a year to add 10 miles so like if he's running 60 miles a week any in a year of running he he can make it 70 miles a week he doesn't try to do and then another year is 80 miles a week another year then you're up to 100 Mile weeks but people want to be at that big mile mileage all the time or immediately and your body just manage just like anything if it's not prepared it's just not going to work yeah yeah so you've been you've been increasing your workload probably your first hundred was it two uh 2012 is that right 2012 was the first one I tried yeah I didn't finish right but yeah my first Ultra was 2011. okay so just trying to so just 12 years into it really should which seems like a long time but it's like I don't know time goes so fast yeah um how do you feel like like physically compared to where you've been or you do you feel like I mean I was just curious do you feel like you're at your Peak or you have you can get better or you your Peak was passed what where are you at what what I mean what would you think that someone would answer to that um who would say their Peak has passed I would no I'm old no but you gotta you gotta believe that there's always room to get better yeah I know I just look at the yeah no that sounds great but I look at like I can go to to Ultra sign up and see that well the trend is I'm not getting better you know what I mean of course there can be an aberration and I could maybe because I retired maybe not have more time they can be more focused on recovery so there's always that little bit of hope that see maybe there's some magic left I was like the full Summit yeah now you're headed yeah maybe there's like could could I be in the 240s of a marathon probably not but I guess there's a little hope so you're saying you're not at your Peak you're getting better I that's the Hope yeah yeah and uh what's so if you had I don't know if somebody said your biggest goal and you put in the work and you achieved this this this number one thing you could do this I don't know what's your long-standing dream what would be like the biggest goal you'd like to achieve running finding out what's possible but like what if I said okay what if you were in shape you felt good mentally physically killing it and you were hypothetically one hard rock one Western would you like that wait that sounds like a good goal right so I think that would be sick I'm gonna try my best and then what if because utmbs after that that what if that could could that ever happen could some could one person win all three of those in one summer yeah absolutely someone couldn't think so yeah could you I don't know I I'd be willing to try yeah yeah that'd be awesome that'd be awesome because I mean you've had let me think you've won them all you vote won them all separately right yeah so I wonder what it would take to have a summer of wins of the most prestigious Ultras in history a lot of cheeseburgers I know but how now that that's my goal for you I just came up with it okay I like it I'm in I'm in for it if it sounds crazy I think it's a fantastic idea and I think something like that it is possible if you can figure out the balance of you know the training and preparation but also making sure you're keeping your body happy because you can very easily you know get too excited do a little too much and then your um yeah you're just breaking yourself down and and then it's not going to get any better that is hard isn't it when you like say I I don't know what it feels like I know what it feels like to be in shape but say having a great run at Western it's hard when you're in shape not to want to do more is that hard for you it's hard for me it is super hard I um I think so in 2019 I ended up dropping out of western states with a hip injury and I think what happened that year is I had done western states the year before I knew the areas I wanted to get better you know I knew there was space for improvement on that course and so I just ramped it all up like I'm gonna do more climbing I'm gonna do uh faster Pace I'm gonna do more miles right everything went up except no recovery or extra body maintenance was added to it so I just uh asked too much without giving anything back to myself and it led to an injury that is hard too because you think that well my body will respond in some ways you think like of course yeah this is going to be hard I'm doing more than I ever have but my body will respond I wonder if also you need to so if you're adding this workload adding this climbing you need to add the recovery just the same yeah so so if you're saying 10 more vertical gain a week 10 more miles you need 10 more recovery yeah you think yeah and and I don't even think at some point it's like more isn't actually better than you should be dialing in the quality of the thing you're doing as opposed to trying to pile on more quantity yeah do you do you struggle with because people will say that but do you ever say well that's for you I mean I'm not trying to be like you I'm trying I'm not I don't want to be like anybody I'm being like me and maybe my body's okay you ever think that uh I mean probably a little bit but also I have learned the lesson that like uh I'm not made of titanium I'm not invincible so there is a line there and I've been over the years trying to get better at uh just reading the signals my body is giving me so when it's giving the warning signs I'm actually listening to them instead of just blowing right past them and thinking that I'm better than those warning signs I think it's really hard because ultra running is so pain-based I mean you're hurting all at least I am but most people running for days hurt so yes like it's hard to say listen to your body because if you listen to your body you would never finish one of these races I mean everybody is hurting no matter where you are in the field yeah it hurts yeah so that's what I'm saying it's like you say you gotta listen to your body but yeah it's really hard to know when to listen for sure and um you know sometimes I still make those mistakes and I I don't listen perfectly but I think our bodies are really good at telling us what they need or you know when they need a break or when they need you know maybe some protein or iron or whatever you know they can give us those signals if we are paying attention uh and distinguishing between those warning signs versus our bodies also like to throw up red flags when they just want to stop because that's easier so like distinguishing between the two of like what's my body just wanting me to you know go sit on the couch because that sounds much more comfortable versus the flag that's like hey you overdid it a little bit like pump the brakes yeah don't you think that that's a weird like your body's like it's hard to it's hard to think about that exactly like your body's saying this because it wants a break because it's easier I know but like you're who's your body talking to your brain yeah I think so yeah and so your brain because it's like this this is like this dance of like Comfort pain is such is so hard and then also of course you have to be in shape everybody's got to be in shape so we're just assuming everybody's in shape but then there's always that comfort and pain um line and you talk about it a lot with the pain cave you've kind of made that famous is you want to get in the pain cave and you want to explore and you want to dig deeper in there and and learn new places so that seems a little bit a little bit counter-intuitive to listening to your body but that's where that's the challenge that's the juggling Act of like when is this serious or when should I give this Credence and when should I just keep pushing um and I guess that at Western is that was it pretty clear that that one time you had to drop that it was like it was okay this is more than just pain cave stuff yeah yeah and I um before that incident I wondered myself like will I know when it's a real flag well I know to you know preserve myself and stop when the warning sign is actually serious and I wondered if I could do it because I love you know pushing I love that feeling of like digging really deep and getting to a Finish Line and um so I wasn't sure that I would have the capacity or maturity or whatever the word is to like actually listen and when the um when that happened during the race and those flags were going up and I ended up dropping it actually felt um like a big step of trusting myself afterwards where I was like okay you do have the capacity to listen if the flags are important so I felt like I was learning even better how to read the signals I was getting was it a relief that you could look yeah because I'm not trying to like you know run myself into a wall and never be able to run again I want to run my whole life yeah I know it's like but I also like that feeling of immortality I like I like not worrying about you know what I mean it's like so hard though it's it's so hard to make good decisions because you can't you're not Immortal but if you have that attitude of nothing can hurt me it's like gives you that edge a little bit so it's just I know exactly what you're saying I've always said about you and not I don't know if this is good or bad but oh boy yeah I know but because you push so hard and it's so unique and you know I I saw you on the Colorado Trail and when you're going for that record and like humans are this is never anything humans have to worry about but like a dog or a horse could push so hard they'll die you know they just will give everything and in some ways I admire that I'm like could you imagine if you will push so hard you'll die as I kind of there's like kind of a romantic part to that because it's like most people a little bit of pain they're like I'm out I I can't do this so I've always said like you you push so hard because like when I saw you at the Colorado Trails like you were like I can't believe how hard you are pushing and struggling so much but then it also makes me worry that it's like oh my God I I've worried that you pushed too much you know what I mean so I like the it's just weird I'm talking about a lot of stuff but it's weird to think about that it's a relief that you you know could read your body but yeah how do you I don't know do you see that as a as a weird line of distinction between listening and pushing absolutely yeah and like that Colorado Trail incident um I wasn't the flags were all coming up but my brain was pretty mushy by then like yeah it had been four days or whatever 300 miles and I wasn't um in the place to make the best decisions for myself so at the Aid Station that we got to that I ended up dropping at I was going into that aid station telling my Pacers with me like let's grab a pizza pizza and let's go like I'm fine let's keep going because it was a new thing for me I had never traveled that far with my feet I'd never been pushing for that many days and I didn't know I was like maybe this is just what it feels like you know like I felt terrible how would you know though yeah and so I was like or maybe this is just a huge low I'm in and my body is gonna adjust to what we're doing it's gonna jump on board and it'll be feeling better soon because it has every other time yeah well and that happens yeah so I luckily um I was surrounded by people who could make those smarter choices for me in that instance and sometimes that is it like they can see the signals better right more objective yeah they're looking at this isn't just a yeah I mean that was a good decision to pull you out for sure after it is 309 miles I believe right there's an incredible effort and just a high High Country um so beautiful though it was amazing so cool that trail is so cool but um yeah it's just you know obviously that was a great decision there but uh yeah I'm just I admire how hard you can push and it's like it's so rare and then you couple that with your physical ability and uh man that's why you're who you are um yeah so somebody who did ask also about how your running career started which I know but was that you started artix or Nordic scheme right is that what it started as I started running yeah in high Middle School yeah um like fifth and sixth grade we got to race the mile and then I joined the cross country team after that and uh loved it immediately I'd always been a soccer player before that and um my favorite part of the game was that I could run you know the length of the field the whole time and that was like my one thing I could contribute and did you score goals I mean sometimes yeah yeah yeah good when when the other girls got tired yeah or whatever yeah uh so I knew I loved running but I didn't uh I guess those first races like the first mile races and then when I joined in seventh grade to feel the feeling of like I have all the control over what happens right now by how hard I push versus a team sport where you know there's so many things so many people so much going on and I liked that it felt like I could push as hard as I wanted until that finish line and uh yeah that was satisfying and I enjoyed like going like that as hard as I could so I've heard you say that you love everything about running is that true is it yeah you said that right yeah so is that like back then you just love the feeling of of running strong giving up your best effort is that what it was yeah I loved the feeling I loved how afterwards I always felt more like every system was working so it felt like recharging for my brain and the rest of my body and then when I joined the cross country team learned that it can be this huge social activity too so it suddenly was a space where I was you know sharing miles with my best friends and going on adventures you know it um when was that like you guys would go running on your own yep in middle school and high school I mean cross-country teams are special because often you get really close with them and running has a way to make people like real right away right and so those uh were my best friends growing up they're still some of my best friends my cross-country team from when we were 13 together yeah you still keep in contact yeah yeah um but then I so I loved that social bit of it and still appreciated it as a thinking space for me so I remember in like high school going on runs by myself and composing you know my whole English paper in my head getting home scribbling it down on paper so I could turn it in like it was when my brain seemed to work the best too yeah but more clear thinking out there yeah less distractions your what paper remember the paper I mean all of them probably every paper I wrote in high school in college was written on a run yeah I know it's hard to be coughing sorry camera's pointing at me too we've been dealing with this cough for this whole time so corn is used to it um yeah I know the struggle for me is I have these I'm running and I have these words in the perfect order and then you stop to jot it down and it's never it seems like it never was like flows as smoothly as it did on that run yeah do you struggle with that yeah for sure yeah or I'll get stuck like thinking of something and like the way I want to phrase it or something and then that's all I'll think about for like a five mile run is this like three sentences and I'll be like get off that path brain like you gotta think of something new yeah yeah no I know it's it's sometimes I go on runs and you'd think you'd be in a better mood but I obsess about things like I'm irritated about or somebody irritated and like I get done with run I'm in a worse mood because I've been thinking about this thing for this whole time do you ever do that just stewing yeah are you always in a great mood no I've probably stewed on some runs it's a great space for that yeah it's like yeah you can counsel yourself yeah yeah exactly so if you you think about like that middle school girl who would love the mile runs and just to compete and run and you think so that was I don't know 30 years ago right like how does that happen where you're just somebody who enjoys running and now you're one of the the most iconic women Ultra runners in the world how does that is that just time is that just time and and having a passion for something and just doing it because it's your heart's full when you do it is that the secret yeah yeah I guess I didn't know ultra running was a thing like um I know some kids some people in the sport learned about it when they were a kid you know watched these Hundred Mile finishes and it made them dream that they could I uh had no idea and to me a marathon sounded like insane I couldn't believe people did those um and I didn't I didn't yeah I didn't foresee this path ever how did you hear of your first 100 my first hundred yeah how do you how did you hear how when did you learn that was a thing um I did a few Road marathons and then I wondered what else I could try that sounded really hard um in that time period I tried like a tough mudder like that sounded super hard you know why because you like the endurance stuff or yeah and I just I think I was just like looking for a thing outside of normal work day life that I could you know be I was running every day anyways so I was like what could I sign up for just to see because who knows what will happen yeah did a tough mudder have you ever done one of those no they hard I mean I'd like to Circle back at some point and see I found it pretty hard but you would be fine I just like couldn't lift myself on a lot of the things and yeah you're like climbing you're climbing over stuff yeah I've seen some stuff I've never done it though we had to jump from this really high up platform into this freezing cold lake and swim across it fun yeah and then there was the it's like electric wires dangling right they'll electrocute you and you have to crawl under and uh they were zapping me and I was flopping through like a dead fish and just started giggling so really yeah I loved it well I was like this is so absurd I can't believe that finally doing this didn't you jump fire or do you do they have that at some of those yeah I can't remember if that one had a fire obstacle but I finished that and then I was like okay what else is there that I could try that sounds you know kind of crazy and uh a buddy that I knew was gonna do this 50k right in the neighborhood park and we're at it was in San Antonio oh okay yeah and he's like want to do this 50K like absolutely yeah it sounded like the perfect amount more than a marathon where I was like I did a road Marathon 26 miles which one was that I can survive this 50k you know five more five more miles yeah which Marathon was your first was it that down there I did the Twin Cities Marathon in Minnesota as my first okay and then so when you did that 50k had you been running uh getting the miles in I um no I mean yes so I was running every day but I would consistently get maybe an hour before work and maybe on the weekends up to two hours but I wasn't like following any plan or anything I was just doing normal basically maintenance like yeah because I loved it it felt good that's what I wanted to do with some of my time but I wasn't putting in a ton of effort to it um but at the 50k then was on dirt trails and I hadn't really run any dirt trails since you know High School cross country or college training here in Colorado um and it was really cool to Circle back to those dirt trails and be reminded of like the woods feel different than a road Marathon course right you know doing the road Marathon it was like watches beeping all over yeah everyone like checking them for their Pace the whole time which is great but then to get to the peacefulness and like weaving through the single track dirt in the woods and people just chatting and joking and like that's great filling my pockets with jelly beans I was like this is cool yeah and that then opened up the whole ultra running world to me so and how did you do in that first 50K yeah fine I made it pretty sore were you like uh did you do better than you expected I mean were you like whoa I did pretty good or Man compared to the field how'd you do yeah I think um it went better than expected for sure okay and he felt felt good about that then so then was now you need to do something further or another 50k yeah no immediately it was like what's the next distance I could try 50 miles yeah did you do that yep and how'd that go that was cool that was hard um and the 50k that I did in Texas you know expose me to the sport but the 50 mile race I did was in Colorado in the mountains and that's what hooked me to the sport for sure it was like you know incredible scenery it was in Steamboat Springs Colorado and the mountains um it was so hard like 50 miles was insane that's like a long way a huge day and then just the people and their their attitudes got me fully hooked on it like it was terrible weather uh sleeting like windy awful you know all signs pointed to we should hate this and the people around me were having so much fun and I was like tough yeah I was like that's cool like I want to be surrounded by those kinds of attitudes exactly yeah and probably a lot of people dropped in that race right if that weather was like that and yeah probably yeah and you stuck it out and got the Finish yeah yeah somehow yeah and then that went to the the rocky that was your first hundred was that the next race then yeah yep so then I decided after the 50 mile race I should try a hundred yeah why not yeah and then that's where I know I've read that a few times and you've talked about that a million times I know I told you one time that if you have a podcast and they ask you the same questions that you've been asked before you should say I'm not answering because like because it's like everybody asks like the same right but I just know that that that Rocky Raccoon you no it was uh Run Rabbit a run Rabbit yeah sorry um but you made it like 60 miles right yeah and then you the pain was too much and you didn't realize that pain was part of the deal but also I bet I bet your legs weren't it wasn't like normal pain like now you're you your body probably wasn't ready for 100 I mean there's so much to ask of a body yeah you know so it probably was pretty intense yeah it's hard to memories are so hard to know like what it actually felt like yeah you know because now when I think of it I'm like that was normal and I just didn't know that I had the mental tools to push past that yeah but for sure I wasn't training appropriately for a hundred miles right and uh was kind of like probably skating in thinking like you know I did the road Marathon I tried that Tough Mudder I tried this 50k you know thinking like if I just keep doing my same one hour run every day and then a few hours on the weekend it's I'll be able to do these kinds of things right and not growing the actual training bit for it and then after that you realized okay my training needs to ramp up also if this distance is going to ramp up yeah yeah then is that when you got more serious about training actually for a hundred yeah absolutely afterward after dropping out of that race I was pretty bummed and disappointed in myself that I had uh quit something that I started like we weren't raised to do that you know you finish what you start you give it your best and there I had dropped out at Mile 60 of 100 mile race and watched all these people struggling to finish it thinking like I didn't let myself struggle long enough you know to really know right so instantly I knew that that was still uh door I wanted to keep banging on to see if I could do it had you ever quit anything before I mean maybe like gymnastics yeah I mean because I do know it's like you people are raised it's like no you finish what you start you know so uh and they always say that uh quitting is uh contagious like you get used to it so that's why I was curious if that was like a you know obviously you you've turned the corner and now you're like the most fierce competitor out there but it's like um I think that pain of quitting that and then see and I almost see when I see somebody still pushing and hurting I'm a little jealous like I've even seen it followed your races and it's like you missed that sacrifice and that knowing your you gave it your all and so probably watching those people who after you dropped out were still giving their all and we're going to get that reward that was probably that's the hardest part of it almost yeah yeah uh and it was a perfect scenario for that because the Aid Station I dropped at was the most inconvenient to get to so I had I dropped they you know cut off my bracelet to say you know you're officially out of the race now and then I just had to sit there for hours oh my God hunkered under like borrowed sweatshirts and blankets yeah watching all these Runners come through as I waited for you know the random ride out that was gonna happen yeah but it was uh like front row seat you know to like if you care about this and want to do this you have the perfect setup right now to learn how you could be that person who finishes and you saw those people that were hurting just like you were but kept pushing yeah yeah or you know you know super psyched and friendly like chowing down on food and then carrying on like never thinking oh I should sit by her and quit too yeah no I understand I mean it probably was a blessing because if you would have been just swooped off and been at McDonald's yeah in a half hour like God that sucked I'm glad I'm out of there way different than watching those people still fighting yeah yeah that was a perfect storm yeah probably painful lesson though at the time yeah and it was like if you want this you need to actually do something about it not carry on like normal and do the thing you've always been doing like you've got to be better did you have that conversation with yourself or yeah and that was just something you had you you realized it's like this is on me yeah because a lot of people like to they're taking ownership over issues isn't like what people's most favorite thing to do but you're just like you knew you're honest with yourself and like no this is on me I can do better yeah and then when did that from that disappointment when did your training take turn the corner uh then it was just a really slow learning process many years of signing up for races trying to learn how to race better what gear I liked how to even you know eat while you're running and keep it in um and I think it was like a conscious effort to train more on the terrain I wanted to race on so instead of just running though you know Six Mile Loop in my neighborhood I was making a dedicated effort to go get on trails and learn how to run Trails better because it didn't come supernaturally uh I fell a lot I still fall a lot yeah I know I seem pretty good now I mean uh it just takes like if you want to get into trail running it's different than Road running you got to pick up your feet more you know like pay attention a little bit and move with the terrain and that took me some years to even get comfortable on that so um spending the time to get to those Trails was part of it did you was there people you were following that you looked up to like was there women Ultra Runners who you would follow and want to Aspire to be like I didn't really have social media to follow anyone but I like would get the ultra running magazine or you know and read about these races like hard rock and see the pictures the race reports yeah yeah see women crushing these routes that I was like it was blowing my mind that they could do it and wondering could I be a person that could finish that someday was for sure a seed that got planted and then you just like kind of on your own just started more time in the Mounds more running um how do you push hard enough by yourself and training because to push like you said in a race where it's like every especially later every stride is an effort like a conscious decision I gotta push push it do you train like that sometimes or do you are you intentional about your training to push on certain days or how does that look uh uh often in training maybe if I'm doing like a really big run then it'll get into that zone of like it's taking all of my concentration to finish this Loop that I started this morning yeah um but otherwise like I don't know like your brain gets tired and I don't know that I need to like always travel into the pain cave and and do that during training right like saving that sort of pain for racing feels like um that makes it special yeah I no I agree it's just it's hard to simulate race Pace you know like you know on the track is pretty easy with splits and different things like that so you know if you're getting the marks you need to prepare for the race you need but over the course of a hundred two hundred however many miles knowing what that pace will feel like that's that's tough to simulate so I just I was curious about when you when you push and how you get your body prepared for those for what you can ask of it during a race and uh I guess it's just a long maybe like the the Run we did I mean I had to push at the end I don't know how'd that feel were you pushing pretty good towards the end is that going to help erase do you think yeah I think that'll happen like that everything can help yeah more miles I mean you're throwing down in the middle I could barely keep up oh you did keep up though so it's like you say you could barely keep up but I was like jeez yeah I suppose I think I had um fallen into the Trap of like you saying you're not fast or something or it's like man you're running some fast miles I put you on your heels I don't know did something I'm still I'm still hurting but man we had such a great day um yeah so um what's like we talked about you're going to win all three of those races remember were we on board that what uh I mean where do you see running going you're just enjoying it and then um I know you enjoy seeing new country getting new experiences is that happy just happy doing that I mean um any big goals like career-wise yeah you kind of said them um and like making sure that it stays enjoyable so if it ever gets to the point where I'm hating it and uh dreading heading out the door for you know multiple days in a row then it would be stepping back and seeing like reevaluate yeah what's going on because it running should be fun you know this is fun this is a thing that we get to choose to do with our time and our bodies and so I want to keep it in that zone of like this is a enjoyable Pastime that I've chosen and I'm choosing to sign up for these races and choosing to feel that suffering and that pain cave feeling um but you know that was my decision to do it and so I wanted to always feel like that yeah I feel like you know there are days well for me I can't speak for you whereas like it's just kind of what I do I got to get out and get some miles in but then some parts of me are like I shouldn't take this for granted we're so lucky to be able to run Mounds yeah I mean how it's not everybody who can just lace up their shoes and go out for a long run in the mountains and it's like to take that for granted I feel guilty it when I think about it like that sometimes we all get wrapped up in our own issues but when I think about it you know and I'm being objective I'm like man I really can't complain even on a bad day it's still we're pretty damn lucky to be able to do this yeah really lucky and and maybe on those days because I'll have them too you know where it just feels like drag your feet a little longer to get the shoes on and get out the door um maybe on days like that I'll you know take a route I don't usually or stop and admire the views or you know they put those benches on Trails usually like yeah so testing out every bench you go by like why did they put the bench right here let's test it out yeah you know just like um appreciating the Small Things yeah of the thing you do every single day like noticing the little stuff again yeah that's a good exercise I think yeah I mean I just know how lucky we are to be able to do it um I was curious what do you uh what do you look forward to most if maybe you can't even rank it but races or Adventures do you know what I'm saying the difference between the two because we've had some fun adventures do you like those or do you like Towing the line and competing what's what's your preference like both for different reasons probably yeah yeah all of it yeah okay yeah what do you prefer well since I can't run fast anymore I guess I'll go with Adventure yeah um I don't know it's uh I like it seems like an adventure you can share with somebody at a different level then yeah you have a connection when you're racing and there's there is a special bond but it's like you're not a team you know if they're hurting you're usually not waiting for them and vice versa whereas an adventure it's like you're a team together and you're sharing you're seeing this together and I'll remember this experience that was like something you'll share so to me it's a little bit different I think for you know personal development or relationship I the adventures are are fun and uh for more like um just my own a race is fun you know I get a my own reward because I can see how I compared to previous times and it's not really about too many other people there yeah so it's just I guess different yeah I like them both like I mean your answer was perfect but yeah I just I really look forward to like the days we had and um you know the fourteeners and the in the Grand Canyon it was like all that stuff I remember the races but I remember like those Adventures maybe a little clearer yeah if that makes sense yeah absolutely and even in races some of my clearest memories and uh best memories of them are the moments shared so it'll be with a Pacer or someone else in the race you know those interactions that you get to have with another person while you're doing that same activity yeah like your backyard Ultras those got to be like because you're kind of a team with those people yeah all team sport in the backyard Ultras yeah and then because you need to get those big miles like you want you have to have a dance partner for that you can't do it on your own so I know you've you know what if you got 283 is that uh yes yeah so I know you your goal has been to get 300 but or over 300 but that takes like a special few days for you and another person's few days you know it has to they have to link up but yeah I've never done one of those this seem hard I think you would love it you'd be really good too I would really like to do a backyard race with you yeah yeah well because you're like I mean yeah because you do need more people you know you need the mask to push to keep getting through and it is a race but nothing about it is winning right so some people who listen they might not know but that backyard Ultra like Big's backyard is about a Four Mile Loop and you have to line up every hour to get it done every hour and that's what you do for that hour and if you finish early from your Four Mile Loop you wait until the next hour and then go again so it's essentially 96 miles a day it adds up to 100 because it's like four points okay something something so it's an even hundred every 24 hours and uh you start with a field of however many people in the race and it goes until only one person is left um so you might you know exit the race because you can't finish the lap in the one hour time limit or because you just refuse to keep lining up and doing it again yeah um but when it gets down to two people then when that second person drops out the race is over after the last person does their final lap so they can't just keep going individually it's not a individual sport at all that's why it's a dance partner yeah exactly got to have somebody willing to grind it out for a while which makes it so cool because to have days like that together cheering each other on actually you know like if you wanted to win a race you would hope they would everyone would stop after 10 miles and you could win yeah but it's not about that it's about seeing how far you can help each other go and so you know you're out doing this Loop and maybe someone's struggling you try and like give them your good energy and like come on man we can do this and same thing back to you when you're struggling people will be cheering you on like stay in it give it time keep coming with us do you think just you saying that made me think there are people who line up those races wanting to win do you think that people have more success cheering for each other than being just like I'm I'm here to win I want these all these people to fail so I win do you think like that positive and helping each other is how you go further I think so personally but it's also how I operate right and so I think someone else might be motivated and driven by I want to bury her yeah and I'll stay in as long as that takes to do that and if that works for them to keep them in then that's great too have you noticed any like psychology people trying to like get you to quit like it is not not even like hey you should quit but there's like little things you can say you know that I don't know I mean there's all sorts of Tricks people do mental tricks yeah do people do that in those I I feel like maybe five years ago I before I had done one of these backyard races I had heard stories of the um tricks the mental games people played with each other out there but I think in the past few years people have started to realize the benefit of not doing that because we want to get farther like yeah and it seems like that's how you'd go further yeah it seems like that negative energy is not only gonna you're trying to to put it on somebody else to get them to quit it's still effect affecting you yeah it feels like that's why Scott I was kind of curious about it's just weird how you think how a brain works so if you're thinking negatively it's going to impact your performance it feels like just that just the energy yeah I don't know that's why I was I was trying to figure out a way to say it and wonder if it made sense but yeah so I think the key to me that feels like one of the biggest reasons you've had so much success is you're always positive so I mean it has to translate into performance enjoying it for sure helps for me like I love I love doing what I'm doing right now and seeing what's possible and if I wasn't I don't think I'd be able to you know dedicate time and the training and then make it hurt as bad in our eyes and suffer suffer with it with reward in mind I guess a little bit or suffering with purpose how about that yeah yeah that seems like what it is um who's your biggest rival who who would you talk smack to so it's like like uh you know how you know Michael Jordan right who yeah so him and Larry Bird Magic Johnson there could only be one so it's like that there had to be somebody who was we already know Michael Jordan's the best but who's like trying to knock you off why could there only be one is there multiple winners of western states that I know about I mean do you guys tie I haven't heard of a tie I'm just messing around I know you would you would never give an answer on a rival I was just just playing around um I wouldn't expect one but so um what do you think like people always say I mean it sounds good to be an ultra Runner it does from the outside in it's like God that looks awesome and then people try it and they're like holy this is hard what do you say to people like aspiring Ultra Runners because I get people all the time that's like I don't know how you do this I can't run you know if I run a mile I'm shin splints and all this right so to me and I want to hear what you say starting is way harder than once you've been going and doing even the hardest races it's at the early days of running I mean do you think I've never heard as much I think Taylor said this when we were talking but he hurt more like when he first was trying to run five or ten miles when he first started than any Ultra yeah you know it's just getting your body used to the process so what what advice would you give to somebody who wants to be a runner uh that it's that it's hard at first but it's tiny consistent you know blocks that you're adding or grains of sand even on the pile like you're just putting one more Grain on there one more tiny block each day but that consistency is the huge thing so if you want to run five miles eventually you shouldn't start by running five miles yeah you should start by running you know around the block and then around a couple blocks like go tiny but be consistent I think that's it I've never heard that analogy about like a grain of sand at a time because people do want they want these big gains I mean even Taylor saying he only adds 10 year 10 miles a year but if you think it in perspective of a grain of sand building on that block now that's that's a small increment but that is what it takes yeah and then you look back and suddenly you've got a pile there yeah you know they add up for sure it's just um you don't see the gain every day yeah like it wouldn't be like yesterday I couldn't hit 10 yards I hit a ladder instead of a Target yeah I was a kill shot though that ladder didn't go anywhere it wouldn't be so quick yeah you know yeah no I know it's it just I think it seems It's discouraging to people because they see and everybody you know I hear it too but smiling running having a great time they go out and they're like oh my God this sucks well how did how does this guy smile so I think everybody needs to realize that yeah it's it is hard sometimes but that's okay yeah that's okay is what gave his heart but you know it's that feeling once you get done and just knowing that you got that you're moving in the right direction it's a positive it's moving in a positive direction I think is the key and it doesn't happen overnight for sure yeah and sometimes it's putting in you know that huge burst of energy to just put your shoes on because those sitting there at the door can be the hardest part yeah and then if you can just getting out there yeah put in a bunch of energy get the shoes on walk out the door and start you know just walking away from your house then it then it gets a little bit easier yeah because I think people also struggle with like they had a running buddy they quit so then they didn't have them so it's like that self-discipline is like you don't need anybody you can get out the door just by yourself is that I mean have you always had that inner drive or or has that been is it easier with a partner or do you like it better just being on your own I like a mix I do most of my running alone and I remember in middle school and high school I would uh just go out for runs by myself in the mornings or you know if we didn't have practice or something so that's always been there and was that just because if it felt good or did you you wanted to get an edge over because it was a competition thing like you were doing a sport and you wanted to get an edge I think it felt good and yeah I wanted it to get better mm-hmm [Laughter] [Music] fine God just wanted to make sure you still still wanted to win it's not about just having a good time now it's like that that competitive spirit is definitely what sets you apart I mean I was just I'm just I was just interested when that started because some people do just go out and it's not a competition at all and that's fine they're just they're just trying to do something healthy and that's great but it's like that having that drive it's like there's something about drive that is really hard to quantify why somebody pushes you know because you can always say well Iran you know had a good week yes last week and had a good day yesterday I deserve a break deserve a day off and there's some people who'll be like no more got to do more but yeah we talked about that when where is that line yeah yeah um man I'm gonna I'm gonna look at some of these questions here real quick I could sit here and quiz young running all day [Music] but there's some good ones in here oh um what race Adventure or training run has been your favorite oh this is from the girl who we smash Runner so she took a picture with us yesterday oh yeah that kind of group coming down yeah her name's Ashley so uh what has been your favorite that's impossible to rank I would never you can't because you'd be disrespected yeah something for someone or some Adventure yeah that's a good point they're all tied right everybody wins yeah I like that um this is from this guy used to live here he really ramped it up his name's Aaron now he lives lives in Salt Lake love this guy I just recognize these names oh and even Emma just commented let's see what she says Emma's one of our favorites oh just clapping hands okay so Aaron says how can we Inspire more young women to get out on the trails my nieces come alive outside so that's so cool yeah I think doing yeah getting them outside doing what you're doing and then uh the web grows so they fall in love with it you know they're dragging their friends out and hopefully we can keep getting more people to experience the trails I would I would love that and I would love you know more people in general trying ultra running or just trying the trails and getting out in nature but more women would be sweet or our start lines are never 50 50. there's always way fewer women yeah why do you think that is I oh but I think uh it doesn't even matter you know like if if we can just then move forward with it and like you know grab a chain of friends and bring them into it then those numbers will come up yeah I mean do you do you ever feel pressure of being a role model because you are obviously people look up to you and they're greatly inspired by you um is there ever any pressure with that or do you do you enjoy it I um I don't know I if if I can be a part of um getting more people to try something hard or to get out in the mountains or to explore their local park with their feet then I think that's uh pretty cool and um just trying to like do that as well as I can hmm yeah I know I've I've always worried about me personally because I'm going to end up up and like you look up to me you were going to be disappointed because I'm going to screw something up and it's going to be like I can't believe you said this and you were this guy and then you did this and I'd be like I I could have told you that was going to happen so I was like sometimes I'm like kind of torn on it feels good that people say you inspire me that feels good but then also for me personally I know I'm human I I know all my flaws and I'm just like God it's like I don't want to let people down I don't know I was just curious if you ever felt like that yeah yeah for sure um yeah I don't know it's okay you don't have to know uh this is a good one oh this is Dale brisby I was curious about this too so we make fun of your diet all the time candy and nachos and beer who's we the world like the entire universe and the Galaxy um but yeah so since you started like say 2012 I mean has your has your body changed with the training is has you know the Mounds will do something you know you say you were running maybe six miles in the neighborhood and now you're running Mounds with all this gain how is your body responding to composition changed are you leaner how have you had to fuel for what you're asking of it now how has that changed yeah it's definitely changed um it's just gotten more efficient at moving on the train I'm asking it to move on um so for sure there's been changes I'm not I don't weigh myself like I wear uh clothing that fits no matter if I just ate a giant burrito or not so it's not like uh in my face as much as it could be right um but for sure like putting in way more miles when I started I mean if I was doing six miles every weekday and maybe up to 13 on the weekends my mileage then versus what I'm doing now is completely different and um like just the strength work and stuff probably uh eating way more now though um yeah a lot of calories I mean you're asking so much of yourself yeah but food for me it was never a thing I wanted to Tinker with and um like I want to eat the things I enjoy and have that be a part of my life that just makes me happy and not thinking about food makes me the happiest and just eating so that's never been a thing like I was never like oh I'm running way more now I need this much more of anything it was like I'm hungry so I'm going to eat and instead of like half the plate of nachos suddenly you know I want the whole plate like Kevin get your own dish or not sharing no I I I get that I mean I was when you were saying that about like you wear baggy clothes that don't I can't remember how you worded it but do you think that that's a tactic because I'm I like you know how people don't eat and they feel fat but it's because probably their clothes are like making them like you know I need I need my fat pants on or my sweatpants you know like if I wear my jeans after a big plate of nachos it's like oh my God I'm a fat but I wonder if like your strategy of your big baggy stuff maybe it does kind of alleviate the pressure of of worrying about food I wonder if that does do you think it does I don't know I mean it is nice to never feel like like my my waistbands are always elastic there's always some give so it's nice to not ever feel that discomfort yeah that's true but it was definitely not like the origin I know I wonder if it's a site I was trying to put psychology to everything it's like so stupid but yeah like I just need to wear sweats more I think that's the lesson I think everyone should yeah why why do we still wear real pants yeah I mean normally I like just sweats and a hoodie with no T-shirt and I'm good to go um what do you think about for 12 hours while you're running is it strategic or does your mind wander some moments being really in the run and thinking about the run and the Motions I'm doing some moments trying to get away from the run and thinking about life or family or memories and then sometimes food and uh lyrics to songs and then sometimes which I really enjoy the moments when the radio can just turn off you know to make your brain be silent yeah it I can't do it all the time I like the footfalls like on the trail and like where you're just it's just that yeah is that what you're saying like sometimes it says in that but that's rare to capture exactly but when you can yeah if you feel the wind I noticed even like when when you're running a few if there's a wind on you you're like automatically holding your arms out to me it just feels like pretty Carefree carefree and just uh you know just the freedom of enjoying the Mounds yeah it's like if you could have that all the time that's that's the magic um I did that didn't really remind me of something I want to ask have you had a Time like in a race where you like I'm in the zone and it just felt so good and you felt like like undeniable in that moment as a runner just like do you have times and races where you've everything was clicking yeah um and sometimes those times last for five minutes and sometimes five miles and sometimes you know you might get a 50 mile spell of that yeah and that's part of the the roller coaster of these really long events is that when those good moments are there it's appreciating them but not magic yeah and not getting ahead of yourself right because I you know from the outside in when I I think I was following along um at UTMB have you won that once or twice uh two times two times I think it was the first time and I think you said you were really struggling towards the end but it's like watching I was envisioning my head she must be in a Zone because you were running so good and I think you had a lead on on the girl but it's pretty good lead and then you're coming into town and it looks like you look so happy but I think you told me later you were dying hurting dying yeah and it's just like so I thought well I would have thought that that was like the Zone she's like you're not you know that magic is happening but internally no you're just like every step was hard right every step was impossible and even at the very end I I was giving high fives and I thought they would knock me over I had zero energy to give anymore and I was just trying to cross the line but seeing that scene at that race it's it's unreal you know with that big crowd and coming down into town and you're just like it's like celebrated like Princess Diana you know I mean it's like this huge crowd and everybody's looking at you and you're doing this thing it's just like it's seems incredible it's insane yeah like no other races like that it's thousands of people in the race and then thousands of people coming to this tiny little town to cheer runners in and there's a few other towns along the course where people will go and it's you know insane party and you go through like a band playing you know yeah and then you head out into the woods and the mountains and it's totally silent again so it's like all the pieces combined into one race why do why do you think they're so good over there at Europe I mean why are those events like that and are the runners better than here have they been doing it longer in the Mounds it's been more of a thing a sport or what I think so I I mean I um don't know all the facts but I think that they also have grown up where it's just normal to go in the mountains like as a kid you know you go out hiking on these trails and so um it starts really early on and then you grow up where the sport is more well known and you know the race is they have something like UTMB which is like a huge spectator sport they have that to look at and you know learn about the sport from and get into then maybe earlier right yeah so it's just more time on the on the field basically just like anything um I mean that's it seems incredible over there but then you also told me about you did another one I think it was shorter and didn't you I mean so fast though wasn't didn't you do a short one over there that was fast and uh a lot of climbing what race was that uh yeah zagama was that okay yeah that one didn't you say it's like they were sprinting yeah zagama is a marathon uh in Spain and the people line the course there so they like hike out in the early morning it's a whole day event to go spectate this one climb on the course and you go up this climb and it's like eight people deep on each side just roaring in your ears like after I left that climb and kept going and what you're climbing through the people right yeah yeah and after you uh get out into the the silence again I was like I don't know if my ear drums popped like really yeah it was so crazy but that's just like built into it so there's like tiny kids who you know that's their day they walked out there with their family they brought a picnic lunch and they're spending the day cheering at this climb people in their 70s and 80s going out there like it's the lifestyle yeah to just be in the mountains yeah that's pretty special yeah and that was Spain yep yeah um so when you travel and you go to all these races that's still another part that I'm like I just wonder about the your mental approach so now you kind of have a Target on you everybody knows Courtney dewalter right everyone every woman knows there she is how how do you how do you deal with that well I mean you know I don't think of it as a Target not well okay I mean everybody knows you're there everybody knows how good you are I mean just like because if you think about like why you love running does that make it hard is it I mean is it do you love being the one people are like okay we'll see if I got what it takes I love it but I don't mind it okay um because I could just love running and do Adventures but I'm choosing to sign up for these races as part of the way I want to push myself and get better so it's a necessary evil essential I mean I don't know about evil yeah but it's part of it yeah and I want to know like I never know going into a race how I'll do that like of course you never know how anyone else is feeling or you know how your day is going to unfold or if your training was good enough or if you know like I don't ever know that so I wanna give it my best at a race and I'm never thinking like I'm the one to beat I'm thinking I want to see what I can do on this course and um you know then whatever happens happens so do you like I I'm assuming you rank your own performance above anything else but do you like when say the field stacked I mean do you get are you more excited for a race that you know that okay the best all the best in the world are going to be here or is that pressure now I love a stacked field do you okay I think everyone then can raise up um but also if my like uh motivation to push down the Gas Pedal is unrelated to where anyone is around me I don't mind then if no one is in the race yeah like I feel like I can still push pretty hard it seems like it's like different there's different aspects that are motivating or you're considering at different times you know yeah I like a stacked field but no they're not going to affect my race I'm still going to give my best yeah I like the crowds no I don't like everybody saying there she is I mean and that's fine because you know we're as humans we look at we internalize things differently I was just curious about um you to me you seem like the ultimate competitor so I would that doesn't surprise me that you love the Stacked field because that's why you line up let's see what we got yeah but then at the end of the day it's just about even if you got beat but you gave your best if it seems like that would be okay would it yeah if I cross the line and know that that was it for that day I'll be Satisfied and I'll you know do some reflecting on like what are my spots that could help me get a little bit closer to what that person did or how where they pushed you know but even after a race that goes fine um I'll still look back at those things okay and do you like write them down or do you like is it official or are you just thinking about it just thinking about it and noticing I guess like where were the areas that I could try to add some tools to my toolbox to be better next time yeah I mean I I get what you're saying it's like I'm wondering if probably because you were so in the race but when I think about uh that film on Tahoe and what's his name Kyle Kyle yeah um you seemed like when he caught you that time it seemed like it sucked it was it seemed like it was hard to be like were you thinking why I gave my best and you were okay because it it affected me to see you you seem sad and that affected me as a viewer I was like God damn that seems real um and I don't like I don't want to see you suffer but at that moment it probably was hard to say well I did my best right there probably was disappointment at that time but I guess if you're looking back and reflecting then you're like that's just the way it goes sometimes absolutely and that is just the way it goes sometimes yeah and then after that race there were so many things we could take away from it uh for the next one do you think was that a that was a hard one to start off with your dot your the food wasn't staying down is that right you couldn't take calories in is that what happened from the get-go it was like this swimming Upstream battle food the mashed potatoes was everything the same yeah but that day for whatever reason your body just yeah it wasn't having it does that happen it's probably because you refuse to run with me in that race I tried no so this is a whole nother thing so I take off it's hot as hell wait no back it up before the race I say what do you like what are you doing you know what are you trying to do here basically at the race at the start line basically because to get there I had to kill in Colorado First yeah then I would if I killed early three animals I'd have a gap and then because it'd be fun to race 200 with you like I never have you've crushed me the only other time we did it but uh I'm like well maybe I can get down there if I have a few days so I made it so you made it yeah and then I asked you how are you feeling you know what are you gonna do what are you aiming for try just fishing to see yeah what are you gonna like are you going yeah and you're like nah I'm just yeah I'm just gonna do do it maybe stay back a little bit Yeah so then I didn't think you were running right so then otherwise that would have been so fun you were like a half mile behind me for however many hours not that long and we could have been sharing that but yeah yeah so I was trying to point is I was trying to catch up with you the whole time for hours and it's like uh was it Howie or maybe maybe it was Howie but he was taking photos and he was given I'd say where's Courtney like sort of getting closer not really because you were flying it seemed like and uh yeah so anyway it didn't work well you shouldn't played your cards earlier because then we could have been helping each other yeah I know I know the only thing good about that is I mean you had that film was incredible I I can't remember who who made that one do you remember uh dream lens yeah media it was so good they did a great job they did and then Taylor ended up he he has some really rough spots but he ended up getting third in that race too he's quite a ways back from you guys but still third he's got third twice at Tahoe which is for us well he's way better than me but it's pretty good and uh so that was kind of cool I was glad to see him do well there and I wanted to see you win but the film you know it's just the way it goes sometimes tough race yeah tough race um yeah okay I don't know how we got sidetracked on me sucking that wasn't really the intention uh uh okay we got 12 minutes before you got to take off um if you could pick only one Ultra race to run out of all the courses which one impossible no one you have to why would you choose one you have to but there's so many good ones you get one you get one choice and then you're done running forever no I won't do that you have to it's not you'll have a choice it's like I didn't say um you pick one or you just pick ten I said you pick one which one is it it's like this is it you can't pick one no could you could could you pick one hunt and that's it if I had to you would yeah if I had to which one um it'd probably be um Arizona elk on the San Carlos Apache reservation dang it no yeah see now that now you have to answer my question so One race I say what would I say I say would it be hard rock or UTMB or Western yes which one or could I pick like um the call the Colorado Trail combined with the Pacific Crest Trail combined with that reminds me okay on a game this system yeah no I understand so so you've had big goals we've even talked about 500 miles before but the Colorado Trail is 500 but I remember a couple like a few years ago we were trying to get Candace to make a 500 mile race um so what what is the draw to like the Colorado Trail and you have unfinished business there we talked about maybe getting back there but it's almost 500 Miles instead of the fkt what is what's the draw to that is that just a test for yourself just to see what if you can do it yeah is that as far as it goes yeah and it's new territory so I think it's an interesting distance to try like if the whole journey through ultra running has wondered what else is possible starting from that first 50K on then this is my next thing of like is it possible and what does it look like to do it yeah that country's so incredible too and Colorado is your home so there's so many positive factors to consider there but yeah I loved I just that little section I ran with you I think was 65 miles just like epic High Country Colorado yeah so fun we saw that there's a guy going opposite direction we saw in the middle of one night I don't think he finished though do you remember that guy yeah did he did he not finish I don't think so okay I heard that somebody told me he dropped not or quit not long after we saw him that night okay but he was going the opposite I think he started in Denver and he's going up to where do you start uh Durango Durango yeah but yeah Special Trail I do want to see you get that yeah well I'll be uh calling you up if if we go for it to see if you're available yeah I know I'd love to I mean I don't know after four days you were still even in a zombie state still climbing those Hills pretty good pretty impressed that was amazing so with that that uh the Colorado Trail do you have any other crazy adventure you had been thinking out I mean at one time we talked about um running across the United States yeah I think it'd be a cool way to see the country yeah to experience it um that's like nowhere that's not anytime soon no I think that yeah I mean it's such a time commitment and the amount of wear and tear it would have on your body there's um too many races all year long that I'd love to keep signing up for right now yeah did you what was your One race if you had to choose remember that one has to be won nope I picked my hunt I know I thought that was gonna like oh make you distraction [Laughter] no I mean I say Western the the history of Western is pretty special so many great Runners there so much history and times and you know known is it a hot year is it a snow Year all that factors in that's pretty cool and they have I I think everybody's doing it or getting better but that live tracking yeah you get addicted what was that you get addicted to to that um so Western has done a good job of that uh UTMB just because it's such a uh I don't know atmosphere crazy but then what's the what's the big draw to Hard Rock for you Hard Rock's just pure mountains you know it's this chill small race but really long history of it being around and uh goes into some incredible Terrain in the San Juan mountains yeah yeah well gonna win them all this year how about that I gotta jot it down okay well I mean Courtney thank you so much again I had the best three days ever lift run shoot the 100k capping it off with 101 yard balloon pop it's like this has been I couldn't I couldn't have scripted a better visit and I thank you so much for coming it means so much to me um again you inspire me I love love your attitude and your energy and it's uh thanks for being a friend yeah thank you appreciate it I'm gonna hand you your bow now because that's the last part of this so I always say I give a Hoyt to outliers and you are an outlier and there's the bow that did it at 101 yards today 101. I know so thank you I appreciate you thank you all right every step I take I move my truth every time they tell me stop by you every comment hate that makes my feel good about my energy [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] did I Endure

Channel: Cameron Hanes

Views: 115,815

Keywords: cameron hanes, keep hammering, cam hanes podcast, keep hammering collective, khc podcast, cam hanes bow hunting, cameron hanes workout, World’s Best Female Ultramarathon Runner, best ultramarathon runner, Courtney Dauwalter, cameron hanes motivation, cameron hanes endure, ultra marathon, ultra running, ultra running tips, ultra marathon diet, ultra marathon runner, keep hammering podcast

Id: qgw1NZ8Rwk0

Length: 111min 8sec (6668 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 29 2023