Conlang Critic: Novial

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Unfortunately there is a serious problem with the video. I have tried viewing it from here with two different browsers and directly on YouTube. It always freezes at about 7:43 or 7:46. Too bad, because I have always enjoyed jan Misali's Conlang Critic videos, even though I have often disagreed with him regarding the particulars of various conIALs.

šŸ‘ļøŽ︎ 2 šŸ‘¤ļøŽ︎ u/slyphnoyde šŸ“…ļøŽ︎ May 26 2019 šŸ—«︎ replies
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welcome to Conlang Critic, the show that gets facts wrong about YOUR favorite conlang! Iā€™m jan Misali, and in this episode, weā€™ll be looking at the new international auxiliary language, Novial. the international auxiliary language is a popular genre of conlang, and Iā€™m pretty sure that thereā€™s never been a good one. Iā€™ve looked at IAL after IAL on this show, but every single one Iā€™ve seen is flawed in some way that prevents it from being good. the bar is so low that I was fine claiming Lingua Franca Nova to be the least bad one Iā€™ve looked at by default, even though itā€™s got most of the same problems as all the others. I should be clear here that when I say ā€œinternational auxiliary languageā€ or ā€œIALā€, Iā€™m talking about a specific subset of international languages, one even more specific than the clunky name ā€œinternational auxiliary languageā€ suggests. for my purposes, ā€œIALā€ specifically refers to a ā€œglobal international auxiliary languageā€, a language designed to be used for communication between people who otherwise wouldnā€™t have a language in common regardless of where the given people are from. this is a specific type of auxlang, which is a specific type of interlang, which is a specific type of conlang. I bring all of this up because in the past Iā€™ve been inconsistent with terminology, referring to all languages that are even remotely international as ā€œinterlangsā€ regardless of what goals they have, giving the impression that I for some reason think that all international languages are trying to be IALs. this is part of why for Season Three I am no longer ranking conlangs against each other, and from the feedback I got on the Dothraki episode it seems like youā€™re mostly good with that change. anyway, thatā€™s enough preamble. whatā€™s Novial? Novial is an IAL first proposed in 1928 in the book An International Language by the late Otto Jespersen, whose surname sounds like an alien doing a very bad job of convincing you of their humanity. Novial was created in direct response to the various failed attempts to implement an IAL that came previously, notably VolapuĢˆk, Esperanto, Ido, and even some languages I havenā€™t made videos about yet like Idiom Neutral, Latin Without Inflections, and Interlingue, a language which is completely different from Interlingua I promise. in An International Language, Otto goes through the criticisms that he had for each of these conlangs, making him some sort of, yes, ā€œPerson Who Critiques Constructed Languagesā€ or something. he felt that much of the reason none of these languages were successful was because they all had flaws that could be, quote, ā€œjustly and severely criticized by competent authoritiesā€. Otto certainly talked a lot of smack, but does his ā€œNew International Auxiliary Languageā€ succeed where other attempts failed? Novialā€™s consonants are: unlike some other IAL inventories Iā€™ve seen, I can understand why this is what it is. Novial prioritizes recognizability above pronounceability, but still tries to find some balance between the two. itā€™s clear that a lot of thought was put into this set of consonants. now you might notice that two of the phonemes on this chart are actually the same thing. the voiceless postalveolar affricate and the voiceless postalveolar fricative are completely interchangeable in Novial. so why are they two separate phonemes written in two distinct ways? well, the reason why has more to do with orthography than phonology, so Iā€™ll have to come back to that later, but for now just know that youā€™re allowed to make the distinction if you want, but if you donā€™t want to then itā€™s fine. anyway, time for everyoneā€™s favorite segment, What's the Most Commonly Spoken Language Whose Consonant Inventory Is Incompatible with That of This Particular International Auxiliary Language? the only segment of a conlang review series dedicated to checking exactly who in the world would be able to pronounce the words in a given IAL without needing to learn any new consonants! letā€™s give it up for your host, the Wikipedia article ā€œList of languages by total number of speakersā€! welcome to the showvial, Novial. now, the rules are simple. weā€™ll just go through every language on the Wikipedia article ā€œList of languages by total number of speakersā€ until we find the most commonly spoken language that doesnā€™t have at least one sound that can directly correspond to each of the consonants in your inventory. they donā€™t need to be perfect matches for every sound, just close enough. if a language isnā€™t compatible, that means monolingual speakers of that language would be forced to learn how to make at least one new sound in order to be able to speak you. so, Novial, are you ready to play... What's the Most Commonly Spoken Language Whose Consonant Inventory Is Incompatible with That of This Particular International Auxiliary Language? English, 1.13 billion speakers. fully compatible. Mandarin Chinese, 1.12 billion speakers. makes no distinction between voiced and voiceless fricatives, but can approximate /v/ with a glide. compatible. Hindi, 615 million speakers. the sound /f/ is rare outside of loanwords, but perfectly fine being here. fully compatible. Spanish, 534 million speakers. somewhat of a stretch. [b] and [Ī²] are allophones of the same phoneme in Spanish, so thereā€™s a risk of those being confused for each other, and similarly [ɟŹ] could be confused with [iĢÆ]. compatible with an asterisk. French, 280 million speakers. this was specifically cited as one of the ā€œprincipal languagesā€ that contributed to Novialā€™s design. and its inventory... lacks any good equivalent to Novialā€™s glottal fricative. better luck next time, Novial! now, to be fair, /h/ isnā€™t the hardest sound to learn how to make. itā€™s literally just exhaling. however, for a monolingual speaker of a language without this sound, being able to perceive it as a meaningful sound can be very challenging. the fact that Otto didnā€™t even remark on this challenge for French speakers learning Novial was quite the blunder on his behalf. and besides /h/, as you saw, the best approximation Spanish speakers have for the voiced affricate isnā€™t actually very good. these are the two sounds in this consonant inventory that I think shouldnā€™t be here. before moving on, I should acknowledge the rhotic. itā€™s specified as being ideally a trill, /r/, which makes sense because thatā€™s the most common rhotic sound. while I could go without it, it makes sense having it for recognizability. Novialā€™s vowels are: do I have to talk about the five vowel system again? this is the most sensible vowel system for an IAL to use, and thereā€™s not really any reason to use anything else, unless you wanna go for a three vowel system. does Novial have diphthongs? technically no, but there are plenty of words with consecutive vowels, and those are allowed to be pronounced as diphthongs if you want. thereā€™s also the particle mey which ends with a glide, which is for all intents and purposes the same thing as a diphthong. Novialā€™s phonotactics are never explicitly defined in any of Otto Jespersenā€™s books. just like with the segmental phonology, recognizability seems to have been prioritized here above pronounceability, but at the very least there seems to have been more care put into it than, say, Esperanto. while thereā€™s nothing as baffling as scii, words like svabre and pseudonimi donā€™t exactly roll off the tongue either. so. what is up with the two distinct but not really distinct voiceless postalveolar sounds? well, this came as the result of Otto not being able to make up his mind about weather Novialā€™s hush consonant should be written with <ch> or <sh>. clearly a distinction shouldnā€™t be made between the sounds /tŹƒ/ and /Źƒ/, but how can you best write something that intuitively can be pronounced both ways? there is a correct answer to this, the digraph <ch>. <ch> is used for both sounds across different languages, so if you want one thing that intuitively can be read as both sounds, <ch> is the best option. Otto, however, clearly didnā€™t see it this way, and instead decided not to decide and just made it so that <ch> and <sh> both represented the same sound, but, and this is the kicker, speakers are allowed to pronounce them differently if they want. this is amusingly spun as a positive for Novial. quote, ā€œIt is perhaps fortunate that there are some points in which we can allow each individuality a full scope without any danger for mutual understanding.ā€ oh, Otto. anyway, besides that, everything else is spelled unambiguously. well, almost everything. see, see, thereā€™s also the letter <x>, which is used for the sequence /ks/ or its voiced equivalent /É”z/ in free variation. there are, however, some words that write this sequence with <ks> instead, like aksidente and vaksine. another quirk of the Latin alphabetā€™s use in natural languages gleefully borrowed into Novial is <qu> used for the sequence /kuĢÆ/. this use of the letters <x> and <q> is somewhat common for IALs, since it helps to preserve the aesthetics of many words. however, I canā€™t help but wonder if this is truly necessary. after all, Indonesian gets along just fine spelling words like ĆØkskomunikasi with <ks> and words like kualitas with <ku>. in general, however, the inconsistencies of Novialā€™s orthography are harmless. while a fully phonetic writing system would of course be preferred, given Novialā€™s goal of recognizability I completely understand why one wouldnā€™t be used. texts in Novial appear more natural, for what itā€™s worth, than the same texts written phonetically. and besides, itā€™s still far more consistent than most languages that use the Latin alphabet. I mean, itā€™s not like it uses the letter <c> as a third, unpredictable way of writing the sound /k/ as a spelling reform proposed six years later or anythOTTO! why would you do that, Otto? you spent like sixteen hundred words deliberating what the best way to handle the letter <c> would be, and you came to the right conclusion! yeah, of course people who like your language arenā€™t going to want to adapt your spelling reform, itā€™s not good! itā€™s a bad spelling reform, Otto! it makes spellings worse, the opposite of what a spelling reform is supposed to do! ugh! Novialā€™s grammar is, surprise surprise, designed to be simpler and more regular than most natural languages. there is also a large amount of room for variation in many things, presumably so that you can speak Novial in a way more analogous to your first language. for example, the default word order is subject-verb-object. because of this, the object of a sentence doesnā€™t need to be marked for the accusative case; word order alone is enough to indicate this. however, if you want to use a different word order that would require the object of a sentence to be marked, thereā€™s a completely optional accusative suffix that you can apply if you want. nouns are generally marked for number with a consonant suffix in the plural, but a noun in its most basic uninflected form has indefinite number, so the vowel e which usually appears on nouns can be interpreted as a singular suffix. this system, however, is further complicated by the way Novial handles gender. nouns in the singular have different suffixes depending on gender. the suffix -e is applied for singular nouns in most situations, but the feminine -a and masculine -o suffixes may be applied in cases where specifying gender is necessary, mirroring the grammatical gender distinction in most Romance languages. it is then this vowel that has the plural suffix added to it. this, by the way, is the ideal way to handle gender in an IAL. you donā€™t have to specify gender, but when you want to, no gender is treated as the default. thatā€™s literally all I ask for, a system where itā€™s possible to talk about people without mentioning gender, and where women arenā€™t considered to be a type of man. the bar is practically underground and yet IALs like Esperanto manage to dig under it anyway. in addition to the gendered suffixes, thereā€™s also the suffix -um, which Otto describes as a neuter suffix, allegedly used for non-living things, but itā€™s pretty inconsistent. I mean, Iā€™m fairly certain that libre counts as something thatā€™s, quote, ā€œgenerally rendered in English by means of a ā€˜thingā€™ or a circumscription with ā€˜what isā€™ā€, but itā€™s not *librum. anyway, in addition to number and the optional marking of the accusative, nouns can also be marked for the genitive case with another consonant suffix. this gender and case information all cannot be indicated without also specifying number, making that indefinite number form feel more like an afterthought than a fully realized feature of the language. adjectives end with the vowel suffix -i and go before nouns. this suffix is allowed to be, and often is, dropped as long as it isnā€™t ambiguous and still pronounceable. so while fasili will sometimes be shortened fasil, simpli always keeps its suffix as an adjective. comparative and superlative forms of adjectives use the particles plu and maxim. likewise, contrastive and sublative forms use the particles min and minim. additionally, the equative uses the particle tam. all of these when used to make comparisons use the preposition kam. so, plu boni kam means ā€œbetter thanā€, tam boni kam means ā€œas good asā€, min boni kam means ā€œless good thanā€, maxim boni means ā€œbestā€, and minim boni means ā€œleast goodā€. adjectives can be formed into nouns by replacing the -i ending with the appropriate noun suffix. adverbs are derived from adjectives with a consonant suffix, turning -i into -im. there are also various suffixes for more specific types of adverbs, such as -grad, roughly meaning ā€œextentā€, so from alti comes altigrad. verbs in Novial are mostly handled using particles, on top of a small set of suffixes. thereā€™s a lot of stuff going on here. so first off, the most obvious thing that jumps out right away is how Englishy this system is. almost every single one of these is loaned directly from English. this isnā€™t necessarily a bad choice, to be fair, as verbs tend to be learned from scratch anyway. whatā€™s more important is how the system functions underlyingly which oops is super Englishy again. on one hand, I think doing all this stuff with particles instead of affixes was a good move. while not all of the source languages use particles over verb conjugation in this way, itā€™s generally easier to move from synthetic to isolating than vice versa. on the other hand, though, thereā€™s no consistency with which forms get suffixes and which get particles besides just matching what English does. like, the two participles get suffixes, admittedly the only Romance-derived forms in the conjugation table, which happen to correspond with English -ing and -ed, but then the infinitive takes the particle tu, like exactly the same one it does in English and closely related Germanic languages. the future tense, typically marked with sal can also use the completely separate particle ve, and thereā€™s virtually no reason to do that other than to imitate something like a shall/will distinction. most glaringly, the simple past has two different verb forms with exactly the same meaning. itā€™s the only tense in Novial that uses a suffix and coincidentally the only one in English too. and yes, both of these forms are directly derived from English even though just one wouldā€™ve certainly sufficed. but then that suffix does more than just the simple past tense. the future and perfect particles can both be modified with it to form more complex past tenses. and of course on top of that you can stack ha with other tenses to form future perfect and conditional perfect, again functioning exactly the same as English. and this isnā€™t even mentioning the two passives! oh, did I mention? Novial has two entire passive voices! despite being an auxlang, Novial found it necessary to bake in a distinction between ā€œpassive of beingā€ and ā€œpassive of becomingā€. for the normal passive, the ā€œpassive of beingā€, the verb es is used along with the passive participle. sure, fine. but then the other passive voice, the ā€œpassive of becomingā€, uses the particle bli but not the passive participle. it works just like all the other particles, including how the past tense is marked by giving it a suffix instead of the actual verb. like, okay, I get why you might want to distinguish between these things, the change of state as opposed to the state itself. and sure, itā€™s a distinction that some languages do make, but like, come on, wasnā€™t this verb system already complicated enough? somehow more complicated than the verbs is Novialā€™s expansive suffix system for derivation. like most other things, itā€™s designed with recognizability in mind over ease of use. so even though nouns end with -e by default, nouns derived from verbs end with -o instead, sometimes. and of course thereā€™s the suffix -iere, which borrowed from Romance languages somehow turns an apple into an apple tree but also the number one million into a millionaire. and then obviously thereā€™s two distinct and equivalent suffixes that turn a noun into a verb meaning ā€œto turn intoā€ whatever, another inconsistency borrowed because Otto just didnā€™t want to choose. as youā€™ve surely gathered, Novial is just as Eurocentric as every other major international auxiliary language. this is to be expected. when aiming for maximum recognizability, itā€™s a lot easier to just assume that European languages are representative of the whole world than it would be to actually try to figure out what the most recognizable words for things really are. I mean, actually looking up how to say things in various common languages to determine what the most recognizable word would be is a time-consuming process now, in a time when you can just ask a computer to tell you stuff. imagine how hard it wouldā€™ve been to do that a century ago! Novialā€™s main focus is on the languages most used in international discourse at the time: English, French, and German. additionally, other languages were examined to help calculate what the most internationally recognizable word for something would be. well, in Europe at least, but you get the idea. the specific extra languages used were Spanish, Russian, Italian, and uh... ā€œScandinavianā€? I assume that thatā€™s referring to just, the North Germanic family of languages collectively, as though they were a singular language. it sorta makes sense, seeingā€™s how they form a sort of dialect continuum, but it is still weird seeing one of the source languages be something that isnā€™t actually a single language. anyway, all seven of the source languages are Indo-European, and of those, three are Germanic and three are Romance, leaving Russian as the sole representative of all languages outside of those two families. the end result is that Novialā€™s vocabulary is pretty much entirely Romance and Germanic, slightly more homogeneous than Esperantoā€™s mix of Romance, Germanic, and Slavic. this is probably not actually that big of a deal, but a bit more diversity wouldā€™ve been nice, you know? that aside, if you look at specific words in Novial and how they compare to the source languages, youā€™ll see that wherever thereā€™s a clear consensus among them Novial of course has no problem, but whenever there isnā€™t one clear best word for something, the default tends to be Romance rather than Germanic. boni in particular there I think wasnā€™t the best choice, since the Germanic languages here seem to be more in agreement than the Romance languages. something like gudi wouldā€™ve been better in my opinion. hereā€™s a pronoun table. pronouns in general are handled exactly the same as nouns, including the genitive suffix and the use of the gender suffixes for the third person pronouns. those third person pronouns, by the way, are handled as though they were the noun forms of the definite article li. the one exception to this consistency is the first person plural pronoun, which is nus instead of *mes, which is justified because ā€œusā€ isnā€™t really the same exact thing as just more than one ā€œmeā€. might as well talk about numbers. numbers up to ten have basic names, as usual, then thereā€™s a regular -anti suffix for multiples of ten. thereā€™s also some suffixes for different forms of each number, including some I didnā€™t bother to put on this chart. that ā€œgroupā€ column there is for referring to a collection of a specific magnitude, like what ā€œduoā€ and ā€œtrioā€ normally mean in English. for numbers between ten and a hundred, you just say the word for the multiple of ten then the word for the ones digit, hyphenating the two unless itā€™s less than twenty for some reason. for larger orders of magnitude, the word for the specific power of ten is used as a suffix, and everything else is still hyphenated. for the powers of ten themselves, Novial opts for the long scale, with bilione meaning a million million instead of a thousand million. now, the use of the long scale makes sense. itā€™s a more elegant system than the short scale, and itā€™s used by many languages, sometimes including English. however, the fact that any variation at all exists for what the number ā€œone billionā€ means makes it hard for me to recommend actually using either system for an IAL. instead, what I think an IAL should do is adapt the SI prefixes, at the very least for numbers beyond a million, since theyā€™re both more consistent and more international. of course, this is irrelevant because objectively speaking base ten is just horrible and any language that wants to be viable sh one more thing to check is how Novial does on the ā€œwhat do you call Germanyā€ test. names of places are something where there really is a good reason to prefer one language over all others, namely the language spoken in that place. Germany is called a lot of things, but in German itā€™s called Deutschland. if an international auxiliary language calls Germany something that doesnā€™t sound like Deutschland, it fails the ā€œwhat do you call Germanyā€ test. so how does Novial do? well, I guess todayā€™s just not your day, Novial! the following is an excerpt from An International Language by Otto Jespersen, provided as the first specimen in the bookā€™s final section. itā€™s a translation of a passage from earlier in the same book. Un objetione kel bli ofte fa konter konstruktet lingues es ke les pove nulitem es tam boni kam li natur-lingues. Es ver ke novial non es tam richi kam anglum, non tam eleganti kam fransum, non tam vigorosi kam germanum, non tam beli kam italianum, non tam nuansosi kam rusum, non tam hemali kam nusen patriali lingue. Ma merka bonim, ke omni ti boni qualesos, kel on prisa e lauda in li nationali lingues, bli nur trova kand indijenes parla o skripte les. all in all, while Novial is certainly an improvement over its contemporaries, it still falls short of being a truly universally useful auxlang. however, keeping within its actual intended scope, and not extrapolating to our modern far more interconnected world, Novial mostly accomplishes what it set out to do. anything I could point to and call ā€œneedless complexityā€ is only there so that Novial can better suit its needs of translating the nuances of natural languages fairly losslessly. so even though Novial doesnā€™t address all of my problems with the Eurocentric IAL as a concept, it does a decent enough job of being a Eurocentric IAL. I may not like it, but I understand it. and hey, being understood is exactly what Novial wanted. thanks for watching, and Iā€™ll see you next time, wwwwwwwwwwww wwwwhere Iā€™ll be reviewing The IS Language.
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Channel: jan Misali
Views: 141,065
Rating: 4.9498262 out of 5
Keywords: conlang, auxlang, ial, novial, otto jespersen, conlang critic, jan misali
Id: GpPRiwNriys
Channel Id: undefined
Length: 20min 47sec (1247 seconds)
Published: Sun May 26 2019
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