Completing Games (and why I barely do it)

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I also watched it. It’s really good

👍︎︎ 3 👤︎︎ u/Jul_nd 📅︎︎ Jan 21 2021 🗫︎ replies

I really enjoyed that. I wonder what he thinks of communities like this, PlayStation trophies, etc. Clearly we are as minority but it sure would be nice if developers would quit wasting our time with bullshit trophies.

👍︎︎ 2 👤︎︎ u/Furlion 📅︎︎ Jan 23 2021 🗫︎ replies
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I don’t like completing games. I used to; for  a few years in the early 2010s—god that makes   me sound old—I put a lot of time into achievement  and trophy hunting, and to clarify that's what I   mean when I say completing a game— just getting  all of the trophies or achievements in a title. I completed stuff largely for one of two reasons.  The first being that I enjoyed playing them so   much that I wanted to stay in those worlds for  as long as I could, and working through the   achievement list got me to spend far more time in  them. And the second being that when I finished a   game, I had a pretty high percentage of trophies  done, so I figured I’d just knock the rest out. With nearly every game though, by the time I  completed it, I kind of hated it. It left a bad   taste in my mouth, and despite how much I may have  loved a game, it’s impossible to look back without   some frustration. The best memories of the game  faded away and were replaced with the most mundane   and tedious bits of gameplay. Whether it be  getting feather in Assassin’s Creed II or waiting   in empty lobbies so I could complete the co-op  levels in Far Cry 3 or grinding out play after   play trying to stay in the pocket for 10 seconds  in Madden 11 (why did I get this platinum),   there’s almost always something about a completion  run that leaves me wondering if I would have   enjoyed the game more had I stopped playing  after initially beating it. To complete a game,   players often have to engage with it in a  way that is different from what most likely   convinced them to complete it in the first place.  It goes from being a game to being a checklist,   and while I end up playing for longer, I  rarely get more value from that extra time. The reality is that most titles aren’t  designed around being completed, and yeah,   they shouldn’t be. Completionists  make up a tiny percentage of players,   and given that most people who  start a game don’t even finish it,   putting a ton of focus on making a title that is  enjoyable to 100% is low on the priority list. With that all said, every game on Xbox and  Playstation are required to have achievements,   and almost every title on steam has them as  well, so regardless of whether or not they really   want to, developers have to put some thought  into the completion criteria of their game,   and depending on how they approach this,  it could inadvertently end up wasting a ton   of time for players who choose to complete it. And  as is customary for a Razbuten videos like this,   I imagine a handful of you are saying: if you  don’t like completing games, then just don’t do   it. And that is fair, but it isn’t taking into  consideration that I have a lizard brain that   tricks me into thinking it would be a good idea  to get all of the achievements in games I like. So, with all that in mind, I wanted to examine  what goes into games that are actually worthwhile   to complete and try to figure out what sorts of  things actually deserve to be achievements, so to   get a fuller picture I reached out to a handful  of developers as well as someone who has 100%ed   more titles than anyone else on the planet  (probably), Jirard “The Completionist” Khalil. And I found in all the conversations I  had that the heart of making completion   enjoyable starts with finding ways  to connect the journey to the reward. “That to me is the most important part is 1)  how cohesively the piece is from start to finish   and 2) with completion in mind and completion  criteria outlined, is it worth that extra   investment, that extra polish, that extra time, to  get to that golden pot at the end of the rainbow.” With certain tasks, being rewarded with just an  achievement isn't enough. When titles have me   doing things like gathering collectibles for  the sake of gathering collectibles, I almost   always either end up resenting the game for  wasting my time or quit. In order for me to   feel like my time is being well spent, I want  some sort of reward that impacts gameplay in a   meaningful way. A series that is pretty bad  about this is Uncharted. Take Lost Legacy;   there’s a section called the Western Ghats. It’s a  non-linear area that allows players to explore at   their own pace, and there’s an optional quest  to collect 11 tokens that are used to fill up   a mysterious wall, and the reward for doing so  is a bracelet that alerts the player when other   treasure is nearby. As the Uncharted series  doesn’t have any sort of permanent upgrades,   this is about as good of a reward as  I should have expected, but I still   somehow felt let down by it. The item makes  it easier to get all the collectibles,   but after spending a few hours roaming the Western  Ghats to complete the sidequest, the last thing I   wanted to do was scour the area again just to  clean up the treasures I had missed. Knowing   that this kind of reward would be the most useful  thing I’d get in return for finding every secret,   it didn’t feel worthwhile and made me question  why these kinds of collectibles were in the game   at all beyond giving me a meaningless  task that would pad out my playtime. The best way to help curb this sort of feeling  is by providing meaningful rewards throughout   the process. Take Ori and the Will of the Wisps.  The various collectibles spread throughout the map   are used to either upgrade Ori, in the form of  increasing health, energy, and abilities, or   rebuild the wellspring glades, which changes how  the area looks, unlocks sidequests and pathways to   other areas, and almost always gives the player  one of the upgrade for Ori as well. On top of   that, as the game gets progressively harder, the  best way to get past difficulty spikes, aside from   just getting good, is to find more upgrades,  which means it is always on the player’s mind. “When you design the game in such a way that every   little trip you take off the beaten path gives  you something beneficial for your main objective,   you almost turn everybody into a  little bit of a completionist I think.” By tying character progression to exploration and  discovery, it not only makes it more likely that   players will want to search every nook and cranny  of a map, but it also leads to them feeling more   satisfied for putting in the time to do so than  they would have had they just gotten a thumbs up. With all that said, I do want to clarify that  while this kind of approach makes completion more   enjoyable, I don’t necessarily think it is always  the right design choice. For example, take Breath   of the Wild. The major collectible in the game are  the Korok seeds, which are densely packed across   Hyrule, making it nearly impossible to not stumble  upon some secret with every step Link takes. This   leads to the world feeling full and encourages  players to explore anywhere that seems interesting   as it not only leads to a fun puzzle but also  has the useful reward of more inventory slots.   The thing is there are 900 korok seeds, which is  far too many to collect. And that’s because they   aren’t meant to all be collected. There are  so many because the developers wanted players   to constantly encounter these little moments of  mystery while playing no matter where they went,   and by having so many korok seeds, they ensured  that would happen. This choice makes 100%ing   Breath of the Wild a maddening experience, but I  don’t think it was the wrong choice because had   they scaled back the number of Korok seeds, the  world would have far less magic to it. Nintendo   doesn’t have achievements, but I have been  wondering if they did whether or not collecting   every Korok seed would be an achievement or not.  Given that the reward for getting them all is   a golden piece of shit I assume the devs don’t  think it is worthwhile to gather all of them, I   imagine they wouldn’t, because including it as an  achievement might encourage more players to do it,   which most likely would lead to a lot more people  leaving Breath of the Wild with negative feelings. Obviously, the argument could be made that  excluding an achievement like that would   technically not be completing the game, and  that ties into another thing that came up in   all of the conversations I had: which was  that when it comes to creating completion   criteria for trophies and achievements, it  isn’t really about having players experience   all of the content; it’s about encouraging  them to interact with it in interesting ways. “We’ll come up with a bunch of ideas based  on what we think will be cool with the feats.   It’s more pointing at a feature of the game  that we want players to see that is weird.   So when you read the feats list, you’re like  “what, I didn’t even know that was there.” The best achievements give players a reason to  keep playing beyond just wanting to check things   off a list. They get people to approach things  from a different angle by promoting playstyles   that the developers find interesting. When done  right it not only makes the process of completing   a game more engaging, but it also gives players a  new appreciation for how the game can be played. For example, a few of the achievements in Hades  got me to experiment with various keepsakes,   which called for me to approach rooms in  dramatically different ways whether it was   playing it safe as to not take any damage  or going balls to the walls to clear a room   as quickly as possible. This actually led  to me discovering my favorite build of the   plume feather and fists to get up to a stupidly  high dodge percentage and make Hades look like   an idiot. Fuck you dad. An achievement in Shovel  Knight pushed me to become a pseudo-speedrunner,   and I started to look at what I originally  thought was a slow-paced platformer in an   entirely new lens. And the ones in  Bloodborne actually convinced me to   do the chalice dungeons which turned out to  be some of my favorite late-game content. Of course, achievements are a double-edged  sword. While their ability to encourage   players to engage in certain behaviors can lead  to positive experiences, it can also push players   to engage with some of the most uninteresting  and tedious aspects of a game if done poorly. “So yeah, it’s like not giving the player the  right amount of control, breaking the spirit   of the game, being to homogenous, being too  much of a time or skill commitment, and, like,   these are all really subjective things, which I  think kinda just shows that this is a interesting   part of design. This is not just a afterthought  that a lot of people maybe consider it is. It’s   this aspect of giving a player a full meal, and  like sometimes that’s not articulated well.” With achievements, there are a lot of these  little traps that many developers fall into,   and they end up getting players  to try to chase challenges that   they don’t have much control over,  which sort of defeats the purpose “I think some of the things we avoid is  anything that’s based on randomness. We want   the player to feel like it’s attainable  and understandable from the beginning,   it’s not something that’s just  like, “find the red thing.” There’s an achievement in Dark Souls called  Knight’s Honor, and it asks players to acquire   all the rare weapons. This calls for them to do  multiple playthroughs in order to collect boss   souls to make the various weapons, which I think  is perfectly fine. The issue comes from weapons   that can only be acquired from random drops;  to get the achievement players need to grind   certain areas and hope for the right drop. And  this doesn’t lead to fun gameplay. I know because   I spent over 8 hours in the Duke’s Archives  killing the same 3 channelers over and over   praying for that 1% drop to come  before I ran out of brain cells. Once I got it, I didn’t feel like I had  experienced more of the game; and I wasn’t   particularly proud that I had finally gotten the  drop; I mostly just felt dumb for wasting my time. One of the biggest complications with  achievements is that due to them being   relatively new there is no real consensus on who  they should be tailored towards. I imagine a lot   of people would say that they should be made  for completionists who want to get recognition   for doing every challenge a game has to offer,  no matter how tedious. I would argue that they   shouldn’t be. I have no data to back this  up so take it with all the salt you have,   but from what I’ve seen the vast majority of  people who get 100% of the achievements or   trophies in a title aren’t all that concerned  about engaging with every aspect of a game;   instead they just want to extend their time with  it in a meaningful way while still having some   sort of definitive stopping point and recognition  for the extra effort. Also, alternatively,   some people just want a really high  gamerscore, but I think the same ideas apply. Achievements provide developers with  the opportunity to outline what they   believe is worthwhile for players to complete,   and I think having curated completion criteria  that doesn’t simply ask players to do everything   and instead directs them towards all of the best  things is what developers should strive to do. Admittedly, this is a lofty goal that  skews towards my personal preferences,   and maybe this is something only I want. I’d be  wager a guess that more traditional completionists   would prefer for achievements to reflect the full  scope of a game, which is fair. I just think that   there is a camp of people who want more out of  a game than just finishing it but also have no   interest in doing menial tasks that don’t reflect  what made the game great in the first place. I do want to make it clear that I  recognize that when it comes to me not   enjoying the process of completing  games, I am part of the problem. It takes a certain kind of person and approach to  enjoy completing a game, and through talking to   Jirard I realized that one of my biggest issues  came from how I went about it. With the vast   majority of titles, I only decided to complete  them after beating the main story, which made   it so the achievement clean-up felt separate from  the core of the game. I did tasks without a whole   lot of rhyme or reason, and inevitably felt  unsatisfied when my final moment with a game   was grabbing a note that I had missed earlier.  It felt like a checklist because I made it one   instead of finding a way to have the journey of  completing a game be a narrative in and of itself. “So to me, the idea of how you approach a game  in completing it is a narrative in itself. So,   if you are the kind of person that’s  like ‘I want to be the maximum level   character by the end of the game,’ you  have to plan in advance how that goes.   That narrative process of building out those  things is so much more fascinating to me than   the prospects of just getting to the end of a game  and then thinking about starting to complete it.” This sort of approach where conscious  thought goes into the order and strategy   behind completing a game leads to a far more  satisfying result than just kind of going for it.   In the spirit of making my own narrative of  completion, a few months back I decided to play   and complete Hades. So I put a lot of thought into  how I’d approach each achievement, and I did what   I could to structure my playthrough in a way that  ended on the most exciting note which was doing   a 16 heat-run, and I know a lot of your probably  don’t think a 16 heat-run is all that impressive,   but please give me credit, I need more validation.  I think the nature of it being a roguelike helped   mitigate some of the typical obstacles I bump  into when completing games as the whole point   is to play it over and over, but planning  out the best and most interesting way to   get through the achievements made the process a  lot more engaging throughout. It is one of the   few games that I’ve ever completed where I walked  away appreciating it more because I completed it. I don’t think this approach works for  every title, but I do think it helps.   WIth that said, for it to work, players  need either go into a game planning to   complete it or decide pretty  early on that they’d like to,   and personally, I don’t have the time, patience  or interest to complete every title I play. I hope as time goes on, developers continue  to shift how they look at achievements,   and instead of basing them around aspects  that really aren’t meant to be completed,   they look at ways to highlight what makes a  game good and get players to do more of it. While I don’t complete nearly as  many games these days as I used to,   I do find myself getting pulled into that trap  about once a year, and so far, it almost always   ends up the same way as the rest with me never  wanting to think about a game I adore again.   So for now, all I can do is try to ignore the  voice in my head that’s telling me to complete   any game I have an emotional connection to,  and then pray that when it eventually does   convince me to to go for that 100%, whatever  game I’m playing is actually worth completing. And speaking of things being worth it, let me  tell you about this video’s sponsor, Raycon.   Look, it’s current year, and, frankly,  at this point, you deserve some wireless   earbuds. You’ve undone too many tangles  and had them ripped out of your ears too   many times by getting a cord snagged  on a doorknob to not look into them. I’ve had Raycons for about a year a  now, and I use them all the time as   I like to listen to podcasts while  doing stuff around the apartment—most   recently been busting through The  Bright Sessions which is quite good   by the way—and its been nice to not be tethered  to a device while doing so. Their latest model,   the Everyday E25 Earbuds are awesome. They have  6 hours of playtime, seamless bluetooth pairing,   lots and lots of bass, and a more compact  design that gives a nice noise isolating fit. And if you click the link in the  description or go to buyraycon.com/razbuten   you can get 15% off your order! They  also have a 45-day free-return policy,   so you have the opportunity to test them out  and be sure they’re the right fit for you.   Wireless earbuds are great to have, and  I’ve enjoyed having Raycons a lot, so if   you’re looking for a solid pair, check them out.  Thanks again to Raycon for sponsoring this video. For all of you still watching...did you like  the twist at the end of Sixth Sense. Like,   it’s dramatic I guess, but also it makes a  lot of stuff in the movie not really make   sense? I don’t know. Uh I guess have a good day  and/or night and I will see you in the next one.
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Channel: Razbuten
Views: 435,490
Rating: 4.950242 out of 5
Keywords: raz, razbuten, what I don't 100% games, completing games and why I barely do it, completing game (and why I barely do it), ori and the will of the wisps, uncharted lost legacy, dark souls, breath of the wild, assassin's creed 2, hades, madden 11, game design, completionist, the completionist
Id: L_iU1Egmwlw
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Length: 16min 32sec (992 seconds)
Published: Thu Jan 21 2021
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