Commercial Multi-Engine Checkride, From a DPE: Chris Kaplan Interview

[Music] hello fellow aviators welcome to jpl aviation where leadership and aviation take off today we have chris kaplan here with us who is a dpe and also is really interested in multi-engine training uh he has his own cessna 310 that he flies out of cable airport chris grew up in hawaii he graduated from michigan state he joined the coast guard flew c-130s for 26 years he's flown the 757 the 767 for ups out of ontario he also likes to teach the uh commercial multi-engine how to cable like we discussed he's a dpe throughout socal so he actually gave my commercial check ride and that's how we met chris how you doing good how you doing doing great the introduction is always the fun part to get through so multi-engine training is what we want to discuss today let's start about i'm a commercial multi sync commercial single engine student i want to go get my commercial multi what would you do as a instructor for the commercial multi if i came to you with a commercial single and i say hey i actually have a career oriented mindset sure i want to get going in my commercial multi experience what is your thought process as the instructor well i mean as an instructor the the multi-engine rating is kind of unique in that it's mostly a hands-on experience right where everything else you're doing your private especially your instrument and even your commercial there's a pretty heavy academic component to it the the commercial is mostly uh just hands-on skills and so in my program i get you right into it day one flying and with each lesson you know we're covering the ground portion there's probably an hour to hour and a half of ground with each lesson and it gets less as we go throughout it takes about six to seven lessons total to get somebody ready for their check ride and that's a thing i've i've realized a lot about multi-ended training there's a lot of marketed accelerated courses and the accelerated courses for the multi-engine seem to be the most efficient way to do it but at the same time obviously safety is a huge important factor in our multi-engine training and it turns out that the highest general aviation fatality rate is in multi-engine aircraft they have not as many accidents as single engine but the amount of fatalities per multi-engine accidents are higher so what do you do as an instructor and as a dpe in that case to incorporate safety into your training and really emphasizing things such as like vmc right i mean it's all about safety right i mean the name of my company vmc aviation it's built into the name it's all about how you handle the aircraft and how you perform when the worst happens which is losing an engine at low altitude right and so that's really the focus of getting folks through that initial i call brain freeze when you pull an engine on somebody and the deer in the headlights look right it's like they feel the plane going they're not making any corrections and in a non-training scenario that usually works out really badly and so the focus is just you know just kind of like in sports it's just repetition repetition over and over that muscle memory so that when it does happen um they react you know properly so what are some things you see income and commercial single engine students that come to you or say for example they want to get their private multi engine which is more of a rare case but when they come to you what are some common student pilot errors that you see throughout the course of training really it's just i wouldn't call it errors as much as just acclimating to the multi-engine environment it's it's so different than you know what they've experienced in a 172 or in a cherokee there's i mean if you remember that uh that old scene from uh the movie airplane where they show the instrument panel and just keeps going and going and going and i think that's the perception folks get when they first sit in there as well there's so many things so many controls so many instruments just getting them acclimated to the multi-engine environment i think is the uh the biggest hurdle and what are some things you could do to help get that student acclimated um because obviously the multi-engine like for me in my experience when i first got in the multi so i did the da40 for my commercial and then i did da42 for the commercial multi and the da42 isn't as intense as per say an aircraft with six levers when you're doing vmc and all that um but for me i noticed just how the aircraft flies like vr really means vr in a multi-engine whereas a single engine you kind of just you can wait for it to come off the ground because that's how it flies but for the multi-engine you just have so much thrust and the wing wants to stay on the ground and fly and like so what are some things that you do to acclimate students to getting used to a two-engine aircraft larger wingspan right i mean that's a it's a great point that when you rotate in the uh in a heavier multi-engine aircraft it's actually you know taking some amount of force to to go ahead and rotate that thing to a climb attitude it's not going to in most um it's not going to just fly itself off off the ground so yeah just you know i'll call out rotate for them you know at uh you know right at the the proper speed and and a lot of times nothing's happening and i'm like no really rotate pull back more that was the same thing my instructor like i go to rotate and i'm actually climbing out at 90 knots he's like no get to like 85 you know vy and the d842 and it was a a wonderful experience to realize how much of a difference there is between controlling a multi-engine and a single engine um so let's talk about vmc a little bit right sure minimum directional control this is the most important thing we talk about um there's been countless uh you know ntsb investigations that people can look up case studies hey this you know multi-engine aircraft did an emc roll after takeoff um obviously the critical phases of flight are very important in any multi-engine aircraft because if you lose one there you're low and slow you know that's the worst time time for it to happen so um in regards to vmc what are your thoughts about controlling the aircraft like in a vmc because obviously with sync multi-engine ga they aren't they don't have to be certificated um for vmc when they were made so what is your um your thought process when it comes to vmc about how to orient yourself in the cockpit when vmc is needed you know in you know a word push push don't pull right because when a engine lost and typically you don't see a complete engine loss you know hey just a catastrophic engine failure the engine seizes up or it's windmilling and it's just making zero power that's not usually the failure mode it's it's more often some type of power loss or power surge but regardless you know at a low altitude losing an engine as you start to settle for in your peripheral vision you're going to start to see the houses getting bigger right as you're you know instead of climbing now you're sinking at you know hey 200 300 feet per minute and um subconsciously you don't like that right you know that's not normal and you start pulling and you start pulling to make that stop while your brain is trying to figure out exactly what the heck is happening here right and that's when you lose track of air speed and before you know it you start feeling the plane start you know going in one direction typically the left right and and the roll kicks in and and that's when the brain freeze really kind of kicks in and and then the plane does what it's going to do from there and so just training folks hey when you experience some kind of power loss push don't pull and then we refine that we don't really mean hey push the nose over at 50 feet and and get a huge descent going what we mean is don't pull back um just think hey i need to to give just a little bit of forward pressure to maintain that speed while your brain catches up to what's happening yeah i think that's a big thing i've noticed and mike multi-training for sure is like the instructor is always drilling hey anything were to happen always get your air speed first worry about the engine later because if you don't have your air speed you're kind of screwed and as far as once you aren't once you are in vmc multi-engine aircraft when as a student pilot when you first start thinking about oh i'm gonna go to a multi engine you go oh my gosh there's a lot of levers there's a lot of new systems i can go high altitude now potentially like um what is your obviously i flew da42 so it's gonna be a little bit than a typical um multi-engine aircraft however what is your process for getting the student acclimated to the cessna 310 systems it's really just repetition just getting them in the seat because again for those first few flights you know it's going to be the first flight's just kind of overwhelming the speed the the climb rate and like you said all the different you know six different levers the instrumentation um just getting them in the seat each of my lessons are about two hours long typically and so by about the third lesson they're starting to get comfortable and uh by the fourth and fifth lesson they're really kind of getting into the groove and then the sixth lesson is preparing them for their check ride in the cessna 310 i was really confused when i first started learning about multi-unit training like the concept of feathering can you talk about like in general how the feathering system works in the 310 and just what feathering does for the aircraft and why we do that multi-engine training right so a feathering propeller is is a really critical concept here when you lose an engine um either side whether it's the critical engine on the left or the right you know depending on the diameter of that propeller let's just say it's an 80-inch propeller you're really doing the equivalent of taking a sheet of plywood cutting out an 80-inch disk and bolting that onto the front of the airplane and if you kind of picture that in your head how that's going to fly right hey on takeoff i'm going to have one engine turn in and on the other i've decided to put a 80 inch piece of plywood on that and let's let's go see how that works out it doesn't work out well feathering the propeller gets that um blade 90 degrees to the relative wind actually a little bit more than 90 degrees to the relative wind so the drag is minimal right and and that's just a really critical capability of of multi-engine airplanes without that you're and they didn't always have that you know not all multi-engine airplanes you know early on did not have full feathering propellers and you know the results kind of speak for themselves yeah especially when it comes to working with propellers that can shift for example if you've never worked with a constant speed propeller before and then you get into multi-engine aircraft and you're dealing with that new environment i could just imagine the uh the amount of work that would go in is is a lot higher um so what do you think for multi-engine training is a good amount of hours to be put in to make most students efficient like what are you looking for like are you looking for a 10-hour program or or what do you what's your gauge you know what i i go off the student when i i introduce the maneuvers a couple at a time and when they're able to consistently do the maneuvers both the uh the typical commercial maneuvers steep turns slow flight stalls as well as the emergency procedures when they're able to do those consistently and comfortably we're done and it typically works out to a about five lessons about 10 hours and then the the sixth lesson is a a mock check ride where we just go through and i i try not to say anything and that's hard because i'm a big mouth it it's so hard as an instructor to just sit there and watch students mess up or well not even mess up it's just you just always want to refine it just a little bit more so to sit there as an instructor and just be quiet and let them figure it out and even though it's not perfect and even though it's not the way you would do it it's still acceptable the hardest thing for me anyway as an instructor is to just sit there and be quiet but that's what the sixth flight the sixth lesson for me is all about is just sit there and be quiet let them work through all the maneuvers as if it were a check ride now i've had some students take 25 hours i had one student take eight um but it seems like you know the eighty percent curve there is right about 12 to 14 hours for my program the way i do it i'm not teaching for the check ride um of course i want them to pass the check ride and and they will but my philosophy is i am turning you loose and if you were to go rent a multi-engine airplane the day after you get your check ride i'm not going to lose sleep over that and sit there and worry about how you're doing and i think a big part of that too is with these multi-engine accidents that occur what are you doing as a dpe as a instructor in this for multi-engine to make sure that whoever comes to you not only builds that foundation really well but making sure or at least doing your best to influence them to keep practicing the multi-engine training absolutely that currency in multi-engine is is really critical i don't care if you've got 2 000 hours in a barren you know and you've been flying it for 15 years if you have not flown a single engine approach or you know had simulated engine loss after takeoff since you got your multi-engine training you're not proficient and and if you were in fortunate enough to experience that in the real world it's going to be a real struggle for you to uh to deal with that so so constant refresher training and emergency procedures and in multi-engine i see is just really critical i agree i think obviously the hardest part of the multi-engine check ride is when you're uh on the ils and they tell you to intercept the course and of course what does examiner do pulls that left engine right as they tell you to intercept the course the final and that's like right the hardest part you're turning trying to control the aircraft going through your checklist um a big part for me was like slow down just you know control the aircraft first really think about it step by step and uh um as you're underneath the hood trying to figure out where that ball is going you know which one he pulled because you're not supposed to look right as as this the student and the applicant in that that scenario um that's just my experience for multi-engine training and i know moving forward obviously i don't own a multi-engine aircraft but there are guys out there who own their multis and they'll go get their their commercial multi and they'll get their dpes and those are the ones that really will have the biggest risk because that's what they're flying all the time um so i i agree with your statement that you know it's very important to continue that training and i know for me i want to get up with you and your 310 i've only flown the 42 i want to see what it's like to work with the six lovers you know i want to try different multi engines see the different you know power ratios because for example like a baron multi engine that's got 310 horsepower aside the one i was flying was 103 133 horsepower side so um when you transition to different multi-engine aircraft which you obviously have experience with um what is uh things to consider when you are dealing with a higher performance multi-engine aircraft versus a like da42 with 133 on each side right well that that higher power definitely has an impact when when and if you lose an engine right you know because that asymmetric thrust is just that much more pronounced which is why i chose the 310 as my training aircraft the 310 is not a trainer by any means right it's a high performance twin um but the the older ones especially the the straight tails they're forgiving enough that you can actually use them for a trainer but they're powerful enough to really let you know when you're screwing up right and and so you know if your question is how do you acclimate to that it's just getting out there and experience it it takes a whole lot more rudder in something like a 300 plus horsepower baron when you lose one right and if you're not really assertive getting on that rudder it's going to let you know about it yeah i agree that that's something i'm definitely looking forward to doing and at the same time uh i realized a challenge that i can present as well um do you give the multi-engine check ride as a dpe i was yesterday what are some things for a multi-engine applicant that would put them ahead of the curve showing up for a check ride um is it their you know their ground school if they really know the the material really well or is it mostly about how they control the aircraft like what for you is that distinguishing uh factor right well in the ground portion certainly being able to articulate all of those um things that go into multi-engine training for example being able to explain hey what is vmc really i mean yeah you know you can give me the wikipedia definition but you know if you were explaining it to a non-pilot um do you have the ability to really kind of capture what that is right um as well as critical engine hey what goes into critical engine and and then i really like to talk about um you know the the seven different components that affect vmc and you know the applicant's understanding of each one of those um hey you know one of which for example operating engine at full power right hey does that does that increase or decrease my vmc well of course it increases it well what would happen if i just took that throttle and pulled it back halfway then what you know i'm looking for them to have that understanding of what less power means you know less asymmetric thrust and vmc of course would go down right so um that's what i'm really kind of looking for in the ground and then in the air it's really really all about no matter what else is happening maintaining that directional control yeah that's the what you point about the full power one and coming into land for example in a single engine you know pattern loop that you're doing if you pull that operating engine back the plane just becomes a glider like it normally would all you're doing is just controlling it to land just like a normal landing from the appropriate altitude so i agree that the factors are very important to understand and really know how to explain them as well because if you can teach them obviously you can know them really well also as a dpe are there some things you've experienced in like emergency situations or have you had any close calls things that we can learn from going into our multi-engine training environment which actually is the highest fatality rate is in the multi-engine training environment so where what would you say could prepare you for that or have you had any experiences that you could share thankfully all of my check rides at least multi-engine so far have been uh been pretty benign i mean people of course making errors but you know just the typical kind of hey i didn't tune in the right ils frequency or you know thing things like that nothing nothing too uh startling um i i did have uh on a single engine check ride uh pretty interesting on taxi back after a uh after a landing had a gear collapse on me which it was the right gear in a uh in an archer oh wow and it wasn't funny at the time but it became really funny when the applicant looked at me like how did i do that like he thought i had somehow simulated the you know this this gear collapse as the plane is turning to the right and uh i'm like i promise i did i did not do that um but but no so far it's been it's been pretty good experiences in the multi-engine oh well that's good and obviously the the safety factor of having two engines is a a big deal whereas you know we want to avoid the long beach practice area at all costs so we can go out a little bit if you've ever seen this old classic movie called the battle of britain um you can you can pull a couple scenes out of there where the sky is just littered with aircraft all you know just in and i always picture that when i when i go into the long beach practice area because there's just planes yeah you're literally every 500 foot separation above you below you and to the right yeah i'm not not a fan yeah not a fan and so when we're practicing the multi-edge we go out you know towards popper and we can be a little bit farther out over the water because we got that second engine so right um it'd be nice to avoid that um but as a dpe let's see if we don't mind talking about that a little bit sure um how long you've been a dpe for coming up on two years now so um as a dpe what was that process of becoming one like for you at what point were you like i want to start you know giving people their certificates right um so i mean i i was an examiner while i was in the military so i had that kind of background and i knew i enjoyed doing the check rides themselves i mean i've always instructed i instructed in the military i still instruct now i really just enjoy that flight training environment and i just wanted to kind of contribute as an examiner i know that taking check rides is really stressful nobody likes them i still get check rides that's just part of life as a professional pilot is being evaluated by others right however they don't have to be as painful as they sometimes are and so my my philosophy on giving check rides is to hopefully create as relaxed and informal environment as i can so that the applicant can do their best whatever that best is and if that best is to the standard or greater than they walk away with their um pilot certificate whatever that is if it's not if it doesn't meet the standard well hopefully it wasn't because they were just so bloody nervous that they couldn't perform right and that can hinder anybody that anxiety and stress that you right learn about in fois and stuff right right absolutely but yeah like on our commercial check right he did a very good job of that because i literally got four hours of sleep that night i i was up super late in here with my buddy because especially like going for your commercial and spending all those time you know you got your instrument done you get private done you're like oh this is it this is a commercial rating that's the big one and you're up you're up super late you're nervous i was trying to prepare everything you know they want it to be perfect and then you wake up in the morning you only got four hours of sleep and truck rides at 7 30 or whatever and uh just being able to get in that zone as an applicant and then also arriving to a dpe who is relaxing and not just show me the logbooks you know let's get started just it's like hey how you doing really taking a step back and it should be all fun in the process right um so as a dpe you give private through commercial curl correct commercial multi um is there a certain check ride that you like to do um or yeah i really enjoy the maltese i i really do i mean it's the training i enjoy doing it's the check ride i enjoy doing one it's typically the uh the ground portion is shorter which is which is nice you just have less material to cover um and it's really just all about i shouldn't say it's all about it's focused on the flying aspects of it so i really like that and for your plan of action as a dpe um what are some things you do to you know throw in new things in your check ride so that you don't have like the same process all the time with with applicants it's it's tough because you want to um kind of mix things up but at the same time there's a lot of value in consistency right and so my check rides tend to be very similar from checkride to checkride so that i'm evaluating people in the same way kind of a standardization but i do sometimes i'll i'll throw a little joke in here and there and then after the fifth time saying i'm like you are so lame you keep like in your head you're like wow i said that right exactly it's like okay this is the time this is this is where you insert joke x um but uh i feel the the consistency and the standardization is is more important than variety you know unless the guy's taking three or four check rides with me he doesn't know the difference anyway now for those four guys who have had you know i've had people who've taken three check rides with me and they're like yeah no i've heard that one like yeah i heard something out of my interest yeah exactly exactly um so in the specific multi-engine check ride as a dpe what are some common maneuvers people usually aren't you know they're within standards but they can do better um you know what are some things that people should focus on in that check ride engine failure after takeoff for sure and you know that's the one that even when you know it's coming it it always well i mean in those early stages you know when people have somewhere between 10 to 15 hours of multi-engine time total depending on how much repetition they got during their training that's always i think the biggest uh challenge for folks is is doing that well and it's also the critical phase too right after takeoff that's where you hear about a lot of accidents um and then flying the single-engine pattern i know for me when i was first learning how to fly the multi-engine and doing the single engine work and the pattern would you tend to see people doing very large patterns to get themselves like a properly you know adjusted to the single-ended environment like how what would you do to mitigate um and also efficient like um maximize the uh time it takes to learn how to fly on the single-engine environment what i actually found is uh people typically fly higher and faster than they need to because i got an engine out and so they keep that operating engine just pushed through the firewall you know because hey i got an engine out yeah you know and you know i'm like hey what's our normal downwind you know speed and like 120 and i'm like what are we doing they're like 150 yeah i'm like okay right just just you know telling people to just once you've got the engine secured you know the the engine's feathered just fly a normal pattern the way you've got one throttle now instead of two you know the the only big decision point there is hey when am i gonna bring the gear down you know and if the performance is good it's not really a hot high density altitude day bring it down where you normally would if if performance is more of a consideration then then then wait you know and to be able to see that decision making an applicant as obviously absolutely oh this guy's got it or he needs a little work so um in the dpe environment what is something you look forward to most about just doing check rides obviously besides the giving them their certificate part but you know do you enjoy the process a lot or like what's your you know philosophy behind that well my uh my philosophy behind that is that um i'm there on behalf of the faa as kind of a gatekeeper i am there to help protect the applicant and passengers they might not even have met yet you know in making sure that they are capable of flying that aircraft to me that's what i think about most um my my very first check ride in the military um i i really struggled with it because the the applicant did okay but it wasn't great and and i i kind of hemmed and hauled and finally i i you know gave him his uh his upgrade and then you know a few years later um that particular individual is a great guy and and you know he's he's flies professionally today but at that point he had an accident with a c-130 you know not too long after i gave him his check ride and i took that really hard i'm like you know i don't know if i did my job there so i always kind of have that in the back of my mind that i don't want to you know give it to somebody who who i'm gonna sit there and think hey am i gonna am i gonna see them in an ntsb report here down the road that's one aspect of it the thing i enjoy most however is people have got so much emotion and energy wrapped up into this whether you're doing it as a passion or whether you are a aspiring you know professional pilot there's just so much of your life you've got wrapped up into this and so much emotion that when you give them that certificate this just such a joyful thing for them and to be a part of that is is really really enjoyable yeah it's i agree being going through the ranks now um commercial multi-work on my cfi and dp's like yourself who have helped along that journey like you were as as much as you know the dp goes out it's another check ride you know you do what you do but to the applicant just being involved with the dp and having that experience is a you know the law of primacy it is a law of intensity all in one check right it really leaves a lasting impact in any little thing that that dpe does as applicants we pick up on it because we're so hyper sensitive in that environment i i try very hard before each check ride you know i've got a lot going on obviously and you know i'll do a couple check rides a day and in the back of my mind i'm thinking okay what what do i need to do this evening or oh i've got you know i've got you know the same things that everybody else is is is uh juggling in their daily life i try before i walk into that check ride to take a deep breath and slow down and remember that this is one of the biggest days of this person's life for me it's one of 10 check rides i'm going to do that week for this person this is one of the biggest days of their life and i need to be in tune with that right and and make sure that it's an enjoyable experience for them even if they strangely enough even if they don't pass i want it to not be a horrible experience and then they come back they do whatever it is that they needed to redo and they're happy yeah um so as far as you know you're talking about doing 10 check rides in a week what about the frequency of check rides that you give tells you about the state of the industry like where do you think like do you see a huge pilot you know training going on right now has it been kind of slower like what's your thoughts on the state of the industry based on your role as a dpe the state of uh flight training flight training is really it's interesting because it never really slowed down i was i was waiting you know during covet i was really waiting for that big throttle back and everything to kind of go into hibernation and it never did what i found was a lot of the applicants during that period were professionals who were taking the time to kind of pursue one of those life dreams right their bucket list items yeah and kovid gave them that chance to do that as we're getting to the end of this it's done nothing but pick up it's more intense than it's ever been because now you still have those folks who are in the pipeline they started during covet and they're trying to get finished but all of the future airline guys are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and they're trying to ramp up and get ready for the next big hiring wave which i personally think is is coming coming up yeah especially with i think united's getting like 10 new orders and stuff of airplanes so it's i can definitely see a lot of spots opening up for potential people who need jobs um is there anything about the you know dpe experience that you would like to share you think people should know that they don't know or anything off top of your head that you just really feel like you need to get out there information wise no other than you know dps obviously are people just like anyone else and um you know for the most part all the dp's that i've met we really are rooting for you you know and we really want you to to pass that check ride and walk out of there with a big smile on your face but the importance of meeting that standard is the primary concern right that uh just making sure that you're as safe a pilot as you can be by by being you know up to standard with all the requirements in the acs so i know some folks may come off like hey they could care less if you pass fail or get run over by a bus you know i mean that's that's just hasn't been my experience most of the dps that i i've met really are rooting for you even if they have their game face on yeah during the uh during um during the exam yeah they want to lead you to where you want to go as the dpe obtaining the certificate so um in that context of you know leading as a instructor as a dpe um all your time in the military i'm sure you've learned a lot about leadership i'm sure you've learned um you know what it takes to get people from where they are to where they want to go or where they need to be so what to you defines a leader oh gosh yeah there's there's you know obviously you know libraries full of books uh on that but but to me um one of the most important things about being a leader is you know obviously you need to espouse the right things you need to say the right things but people pay far more attention to what you do than what you actually say and i have found myself in a hurry checking the fuel levels and yep i checked the oil and jump in and let's go and i'm like okay would i accept that out of one of my students hell no all right get out of the airplane do a proper pre-flight you know because look not only is it the right thing to do but you're there at the airport everybody knows you're an instructor you're a dpe and they just saw you jump in pull your airplane out of the hangar and jump into it within five minutes and you're starting the engines that speaks way more than whatever it is you might tell the next student that walks in the door yeah are you gonna be a kick the fires i mean kick the tires and light the fires type of guy or you're gonna right and there's times when you're really tempted to do you know what i just flew this thing you know this morning it's fine but but again people are watching you and that's leadership and but leadership also is hey are you doing the right things even when you know nobody is watching you right so has there been anybody has there been anybody in your life that you've looked up to um who's mentored you through your journey you know how did you become the person that you are today oh so many um so many my my mom for one um she was a she was a pilot you know and so growing up i was just constantly at the airport you know she would drag me along to the airport every weekend and so it was a long time before i even knew there was another job other than flying so i mean for sure she was probably one of the biggest influences in my life so was she an aviator or yeah no she uh she was a professional yeah right she was a a professional pilot she flew um cargo part 135 for a long time she flew uh beach 18s and dc threes and eventually got into and what made you decide to go the military route because it sounded like she was civilian or she did military too you know not not really sure but i just always knew that that's that's what i uh that's what i wanted to do you know like um it was it was just a pull towards that military lifestyle and i chose the coast guard and yeah now i've just always enjoyed that stuck with it have you felt like your military training being in that environment has prepared you um in excess as opposed to someone who didn't take that route or like what are your thoughts about the overall because you know as a person who's looking to get in deviation say you don't have the funds say like they you know they just need a bit of guidance you consider the military and then you consider doing it the civilian way and there's pros and cons to both so what would be and your experience the you know pros and cons of the military route so the military route well i mean the cost savings for for one but i mean nobody i think should go into the military for for saving money on their ratings i mean primarily it's it's to serve and that should be your your primary focus is to serve but aside from that um military flight training it's easier and harder at the same time it's it's easier because there's not a lot of initiative required and what i mean by that is a very prescribed program you know study this you're going to be tested on this tomorrow and then the next day i mean and so on and so on and so on and so it's all laid out you know in great detail all you need to do is keep up keeping up is very difficult so it's it's not an easy path but it is a very well defined path so for people who um who thrive in that more structured environment then military flight training works out great um for other folks who don't thrive as well in a structured environment then civilian flight training where like you said hey i i've you kind of piece it together yourself right is uh is a better way to go yeah the creative flair versus the structure right and in in the civilian world there's there's places that kind of bridge that gap a little bit and you know certainly uh places uh like uh atp come to mind obviously it's not a it's not a military environment but it is very prescribed milling out violence well they i mean they just you go in and they tell you step by step what you're gonna do and and and that's why i think so many people go to places like that because there's so much uncertainty that they want the security of a very well-defined program yeah that makes sense the the structure gives you a product and then the creative may have a little bit different struggle but same time if you need more time to do it you have a little creative flair to getting things done it's a alternative option so your flight school is vmc aviation is what it's called over on cable vmc aviation yep i don't want to oversell it by flight school i mean a hangar in one 310. yeah an awesome instructor that's getting paid for um you know and it's funny you uh you joke about that a little bit but to me one of the most important things that will define your success in flight training is that flight instructor so the school's important the equipment's important but by far having a knowledgeable um instructor that you get along with well is going to be the the most important factor in your success yeah it's the difference between being with an instructor who's just there for the hours and doesn't really know how to teach well versus someone that actually can lead you using fois using everything that you know the instructor has available resources right to get the student to where they need to go um so in that topic last you know a little segment here of what makes you strive to be better like what makes you keep going in aviation you know you've had a long successful career already why not just stop and call it good like what are some things that keep you motivated and also what are your like long-term goals so long-term goals um i'll start with that i'd really like i really like to uh to learn and get better at aerobatics it's uh it's funny that you know having flown this year over 30 plus you know 30 plus years having flown this long that i'm really a novice when it comes to aerobatics and that's something i really want to get into uh get into more so like extra 300 on the first day or yeah you know what hopefully i'm smart enough to realize you start with something like a satabria and and kind of work your way up to uh that extra 300. but uh yeah there's definitely something i would like to get into more and learn more about not just because it's enjoyable but but also i mean when you're flying with a lot of new people you know folks can uh put you in some pretty awkward situations from time to time and being really well prepared for that um would be one first time i did slow f uh power on stalls i put us in a spin what was the price nice student pilot well done i had no idea he's like right better than i went whoop and uh yeah you can guess what happened yaw equals spin right yep so um but long-term goals that's your goals to get aerobatics um become more proficient at that but then also like you know what drives you to keep being better what's your philosophy and your your motivation you know i think all of us who who just really have a passion for flying um it's just something kind of kind of internal ticking like uh the thing that i always kind of use is my litmus test for people is um when you hear a plane fly over do you have to look up and see what it is and you know i've been i've been doing this my whole life and i still do i don't care if it's a cessna going over my backyard or you know a southwest jet you know lining up for santa ana when i hear something flying overhead i have to see what it is and that just kind of it makes me smile a little bit and and just reminds me how much i really just love aviation i love flying and the whole aviation community so i don't really need the motivation it's just there it's a passion yeah and i think i've seen a lot of people you know they go through their flight training they get everything done and then they may just be doing it for the money they may just be doing it because it was the cool thing to do but um some people wash out simply and they'd stop flying after x amount of years because they made it to the top tier and it wasn't a true love for them and i think that's something that i strive for in my life is to be that lifelong learner to be that guy who's you know going to be a reputable source in the industry um develop a reputation and be like hey this guy loves aviation you want to go fly with someone who can not only make it fun but also have a a high repertoire of training i think that's the ultimate goal sure to be moving forward so um any last thoughts questions comments concerns or anything about aviation that you just want to get out there for people no well i mean i i guess i would just leave folks with um never be afraid to admit you don't know something you know and the the further along you get in this um community aviation people look to you and say oh you've been doing this a long time and they they they kind of assume that you have certain experience and knowledge that you may or may not have and and so at some point for for me my big my big shame is uh i do not have a tail wheel endorsement look at that you see that in in uh another dc of mine and i just admitted that on uh you'll have to cut that part out yeah but but people will be like hey you want to come fly with me i'm like actually i'm not um my neighbor has this awesome uh widgeon and it's a grumman widget and it's a tail dragon he's like uh hey you wanna you wanna and i'm like i had that thing sideways like so fast and so but i kind of chuckle about that but you know the learning never stops but you can only learn if you're willing to admit to people that you don't know something right and so never be afraid to admit what you don't know and and learn from wherever it comes you know i'll have 25 year old flight instructors showing me different techniques on how to how to teach and get through to students it's funny my uh my wife we've been married 27 years paula she's decided in the last couple years that she wants to learn to fly she's been around it ever since she's been married to me but you can't do the training though that's the rule oh my god i tried and i i got fired justifiably so probably i think within two or three lessons actually she says that you didn't get fired you were never hired you were on probation but um but it's true though trying to teach somebody that you have a relationship with is is is difficult and so i was literally asking you know this 25 year old instructor hey you know how do i teach you how to how to flare you don't make an foi for the the wife how to deal with spouses right right right maybe that should be a new addition to foi how to teach relationships you know don't because you won't do a good job at it yeah um so cool well um thanks chris for coming on enjoy wrapping up our time frame here um vmc aviation uh what's the best way for people to contact you um if they want to do multi-engine or dpe fight yeah no they can just uh reach me at chris vmcaviation.org so that's it guys chris at vmc aviation.org he's the man did micromotion check ride really appreciate him coming on um jp aviation is where leadership and aviation take off thanks

Channel: JPL Aviation

Views: 4,772

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Id: dO9xoGS5ARk

Length: 48min 18sec (2898 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 15 2021