Col Allison Black, "The Angel of Death"

[Music] you're listening to the once ready podcast a team of air force special operators forged in combat with over 70 years of combined operational experience as well as a decade of selection instructor experience if you're tired of settling and you want to do something you truly believe in you're in the right place now here's your favorite cct personality jtac extraordinaire embracer of their ridiculous face unlike the shortest operator you'll ever meet peaches hey everybody welcome back to the team room you are here with one's ready and we have a pretty awesome guest with us today we have colonel allison black of the 2-4 sal she is the deputy commander of the 2-4 sal or the 2-4 special operations wing at hurlburt field she is uh in fact one of my commanders uh i have many bosses and colonel black is one of them so thank you for joining us ma'am hey thanks for having me honored to be inside the team room that's right so um as a little icebreaker i mean a lot of like i've mentioned before our demographic is about 15 to 35 so a lot of them are you know new recruits a lot of high schoolers college students and people that are spying air force special warfare folks um and we do also have some active duties so some of those people already know who you are but um i have heard that your nickname is the angel of death yeah it is you know i um very interesting it's funny uh you know how that all came about you know i think a quick intro it's it's uh worthy to note that i spent six and a half years enlisted and i you know came in out of high school was a seer specialist and that was foundational to who i am as a person as an airman as an officer as a wife mom all of that um it showed me what right looked like from from a very young age you know of a whopping 18 years old with no school you know enlisted in the in the air force you know and as i as i got my degree ended up in afscot um i was always seeking a niche mission something where i felt like i could contribute and i landed at the 16 special operations squadron at hilbert field which is the ac-130h spectre guns chip at the time and for me as a navigator uh it was unique in that the nav sits on the flight deck on the h4 did sit on the flight deck vh model made a big difference because there's windows up there everybody likes to take a little look outside even even when it's dark um so uh you know you take uh you take if you think about training and we say we say that we can teach monkeys to fly you know we can teach you how to control air we teach you how to put bombs on target for kids who have never done anything like that that's absolutely true you know they took a new yorker i grew up on long island new york and they taught me how to teach others to survive evade resist and escape i knew nothing about it then they took this bug eater and they put me through aviation school and they taught me how to navigate and how to become part of you know a gunship crew uh to reign hate on the battlefield and uh the experience and where we went with the angel where the angel of death story came from was you know my first combat mission error uh ever so you go back to november of 2001 and we had just uh brought three ac 130 is from herbert field and we landed in karshikan about uzbekistan we land we get shuffled off to some tents trying to figure out you know where to throw our gear uh 12 you know aircrew have to have 12 hours of crew rest before we can be asked to perform a mission so after the 12 hours we were brought back to the ops tent and and briefed on the mission and the mission was a call sign a frequency and a grid and they hand it to me so i had my green little notebook wrote it down and we uh we mission planned as best we could hopped in the airplane and off we went figuring out how we were going to get from uzbekistan down to the border of afghanistan where we were going to tweet the guns we show up overhead at the time it was oda 595 in uh near mazar sharif near east of mazda street actually near condos and bart decker was our controller located with general dostum and the northern alliance so again this you know lieutenant black at the time full on a full crew with lieutenant colonels old crusty guys that had flown in panama and other places we you know do our job we identify the friendlies and we're starting to look for the enemy and as we uh you know we're searching for the enemy uh we came across one vehicle that was closing in on the friendly position not definitely not close they were you know four or five miles away that we uh put our eyes on and determined that they were enemy and it was just as about where we were about to engage that one vehicle it pulled into a compound uh multiple vehicles multiple adult males and past that to bart and the team and they came back and said you know those are confirmed taliban you're cleared hot so again you you know i looked at the fire control officer sitting next to me and i looked down on my game on i just uh you know you trained for this but uh you the feeling of payback at the time of making sure this was never gonna happen again was just a very present um so we we unloaded 400 rounds of 40 in 100 rounds of 105 at night my first combat missionary ever so during that engagement we were we were running out of ammunition because there were so many targets and they they were unpredictable they would scatter they would group up they didn't know what was engaging them so to preserve ammunition and make sure every round uh counted we were using our islid right which is our high powered laser pointer really we were using it internally to deconflict and uh organize and sort and track the the enemy so during that uh you know during the exchange of communications with the ground team and then the use of the islid general dostum who's located with the oda and bart they hear me talking on the radio right because as the nav i have to get the plane from point a to point b but i i'm responsible for all the tactical communications so uh i i'm as i'm relaying what i'm seeing and getting approvals general doesn't hears my voice and says you know is that is that a woman i mean and the guys are like yeah you know yeah as a matter of fact it is like ah america is so determined they bring their women to kill taliban like he couldn't believe it they said he said he was laughing thought it was the funniest thing ever so he gets on his walkie-talkie and calls the enemy that we're shooting we're just laying hate and says you know in so many words hey you're so pathetic american women are killing you surrender now and as this engagement was going on and he was back and forth with the folks we were shooting you could say that there was no secure communications because he would key the mic while i was talking so they could hear me um they uh he he saw the use of the islid the laser and he again he looks at the guys he's like hey is that is that a death ray because he thought the laser was blowing things up he didn't relate it to the to the rounds of 40 and 105. so uh they were like yup as a matter of fact it is you know he was like i knew i knew america had a death ray so he gets back on his walkie-talkie uh you know general dostum is saying american american women are killing you the angel of death is here reigning death and destruction surrender now so mind you that you know me and the airplane and the crew we have no idea this is going on we are just making sure we can uh eliminate as many targets as possible uh and you know recalculating fuel to squeeze out as much time on station as we can and uh and we do we complete the mission we go back to k2 and uh and you know felt felt great about what we were able to do that night it wasn't until a couple of weeks later that team came up to k2 with an ak-47 from general dostum walks in the ops tent and they're like here and they hand this weapon to me and they said he just want to say thank you for what your crew had done that night because the next morning hundreds of them did surrender to him and uh yeah like pretty crazy right i'm just like a little lt wanting to bring some hate and you know do blow stuff up like who doesn't um and and uh it was pretty rewarding that weapon is hung at the 16th special operations squadron and cannon air force base now inside their uh squadron and i'll tell you that pretty rewarding didn't talk much about it at the time because it was i was called out for being different and even though it you know it's a great story i really shied away from it for many years because i was just part of an incredible crew um there's a there's a second little piece of the story that i'll have to share with you um a few weeks after that incident or that night on the battlefield general dostum went to a burka unveiling ceremony with a bunch of afghan women back in you know november 2001 and said hey you know america allows their women to fly these warplanes and uh you know be in battle and if you continue to fight one day you all will have those freedoms so he took this little story this little piece of of you know just getting the mission protecting the eagles making sure the enemy doesn't get away and he turned it for good so it was a hindsight pretty rewarding that we were able to make that kind of an impact yeah and i feel like we can almost talk about like break apart this whole thing in this chain of events for like the rest of this hour like that is one of the coolest stories that i've i heard from any of the pilots that or anybody that's a flyer as far as their nickname and then you know angel of death for the general to have given you that name uh you know inadvertently he was trying to you know scare the enemy which obviously it worked and everything but this is also one of the coolest names just you know i couldn't imagine going from seer specialist and i'm sure you wanted to go over to the tactical side and actually get your hands more into the uh the thicker things whenever you transition to the ac 130 is probably why you started it but like for that amount of responsibility to kind of fall on the shoulders of a lieutenant which i am currently a lieutenant i was prior enlisted and now i'm a lieutenant um you know it takes it takes a lot especially being the only female the only the newest person all that kind of stuff and then to be pointed out like that super awesome story but i do want to talk just a little bit um because we have a lot of people in the seer side of things and they're looking to come in and do that same job as well was there any specific lessons learned or things that you loved about sear because you mentioned that it kind of made you the person that you were or you are now and really molded you into the person um can you mention any specific things about that career field that really um have stuck with you or you know things that you still do today or you think about as you're talking to people because i can tell you know you've hung around with a lot of seer people and people that are more tactical with the way you speak and the way you kind of yeah that whole reigning hate thing that terminology doesn't like just float around so uh yeah anything uh two teenage yeah at the time when i first came in the air force i think i was i was really just looking for a challenge and uh you know it was you know day six or day seven of basic training and the specialty job so much different than it is today but it was a peer rescue man a combat controller and a seer specialist come in it's like three guys walking into a bar you know they came in and talked to all the kids that were right into basic training and at the time you know this is 92. uh women couldn't be combat controllers you couldn't be para rescue but you could do seer and i was like oh let me go i'm gonna go check that out let me see what that's like because you you didn't come in guaranteed those jobs during that time much different than it is today so it was the challenge and again i knew nothing about it but but knew i was going to be part of i was going to challenge myself and uh be part of something bigger and it was uh they they train you to teach they train you this they give you the skills to be really good at what you do if you're motivated to do it right um what was foundational to me was the the empowerment they essentially they give you the rope to hang yourself with right they they give you the platform to teach and train and the respect and they trust that you're to go do your job that for me has been foundational in that i have to trust people to do their job i have to trust that everybody wants to be you know on the team wants to be as good as they can be that's what i've seen and i think uh the the professionalism in which small career fields like seer like pararescue like combat control uh the there's an intimacy and there's a level of respect and responsibility that not other career fields get from their bosses um and that they demand because they i think you walk into a room and you you carry yourself just a little bit different based on the level of responsibility that you're giving these 18 19 year olds that rise to the occasion and those that don't they usually find another path they don't tend to stick around and that was foundational for me to crossing over to the dark side to become an officer i uh i understood the air force at that point and then it was for me specifically i understood what the battlefield looked like from the ground so seer gave me that and i when i went to the air even though i was looking through a soda straw looking through a sensor down at the battlefield i knew i was more familiar with the words that i needed to pass to the guys on the ground to paint a clear picture it was easy for me to make that trend that transition or that translation i guess uh maybe uh and maybe that's that comes a little bit harder for folks that hadn't uh hadn't had that experience yeah and that's super important that uh you know a lot of people get that double-sided like okay this is what they're probably thinking because they're on the ground they're in this group and i know these guys or maybe even you a couple of them sometimes when you hear call signs come across you're like oh i know these people are deployed in this place and you're like oh my gosh all right this is what you got to do and then you kind of give them that uh talk on and tell them what's going on and tell them about all that stuff so that is super important to have as far as um you know that eye in the sky and helping out your guys um and then as far as uh you know being seared that is a supe a really important thing that you pointed out about you know your senior airman teaching all these people and it really is you having to take ownership of everything that you're doing and you know know that it's gonna reflect upon you know the squadron of course but mostly you because you're the only person out there then you're their lifeline when you're to see your people and they're all scared and they haven't been out in the woods before or whatever you're the person that's kind of showing them you know it's okay this is what you're going to do you know it's it's a little bit ironic you're teaching them and giving them skills that you hope they never have to use yeah you hope they're never in a situation where they have to uh revert back to their circle or you know give a detention statement or evade um or try to survive um but it's the confidence and it's the confidence to conquer fear of the unknown and everybody will you know if they're when they're present regardless of the situation when it's a high stress situation they revert back to their training and you you hope that what you pass to them um they'll they'll remember and be able to you know to carry their their head high and return so super rewarding yeah absolutely and then uh you know like we were talking about the transition from seer specialist over into the ac-130 i just wanted to know because obviously i've never been through flight scoring like that you're able to choose the ac 130 and why specifically did you choose that um you know come from your career field which is awesome anyway by itself going into ac 130. sure so uh i spent you know the first four years of my seer career i was at fairchild air force base teaching at the schoolhouse there and then i pcs uh up to alaska and taught at the arctic survival school up at ieltson so i was there i was going to school at night and finish my degree and when i applied uh for officer training i you know i tell you i wasn't really bent on just being an officer i wanted to again be a part of something unique different challenge myself um and i i applied and got picked up for navigator training i knew i wanted to get to asoc so at the time you know you when you go through pilot training or navigate aviation training they they do what's called a drop right so at a certain point you're training they're going to rank your class it changes over time but at this for me it was you know one to one to 30 or however many folks are in your class and then number one got their pick of platforms number two got their pick depending on some of some of it sorry some of it uh depend on the needs of the air force so i knew i wanted to get to assoc and depending on where i fell in my class how well i did and what was available i would have taken anything but i really wanted gunships because of my prior service i was familiar with the mission sets and i knew that if i was to create enough propaganda at my with all the other students in my class if they did make them not want to go to gunship that it would be left for me there might be a little truth to that i might have said that associates deployed 450 days a year and they're in terrible locations and um you know i i was fortunate enough to to score high enough in my class to choose the platform the ac 130 and choose the model because we had the h model and the e model i preferred the older uh h model i like i mentioned earlier because it was up on the flight deck and i wanted to be a part of what was going on uh with the pilots and the engineer and the fire control officer that was that was just my choice at the time um yeah and i got lucky enough to get it and then come back to come to her feel as the assignment well and thank goodness you did you know because you're out there doing the good work laying down the hate and um as a as a ground pounder that's been on the ground while these things are happening i can tell you besides the a-10s and the uh helos there's a special place in our hearts for the for the ac-130 gunships you know like there's this camaraderie and we kind of it's not that we consider y'all ground pounders but there seems to be a much higher level of connection uh between uh y'all and us and i'm just wondering have you ever been to a place where a ground pounder hasn't come up to you and tried to buy you a drink or or tell you about how amazing you are and how you save their lives one time because there's that connection is real just that yeah that feeling when you guys check on and then the chatter stops and the bad guys are scared and you know it it's amazing it's um there was something that i didn't know existed until 2002-2003 so you know you after 9 11 you just go to war and yet you go get after it now there were times that you know into the early late 2001 to you know early 2002 that when i was checking in it would i knew the guys on the ground they're like is this you know is this lieutenant black i'm like affirmative just trying to be super professional like oh we were in puerto rico together we were on this exercise that you know this i'm like ah everybody's listening to me right now i need to be super professional on the radio um but it was it was an instant personal connection because it was it wasn't just a call sign to me i wasn't expecting that i could um because there was a face there was a relationship uh a training relationship that had been built in that year and a half prior to 9 11 happening that i was at harvard field and part of afsoc at different exercises and you know jrx's multi-lats even just home station training so i say you know where i yeah i had three rules three primary rules right protect the evils kill the right guy and don't suck i think that kind of sums up uh you can everything that we do can fall into one of those bins and if you're gonna suck you know suck less tomorrow so or don't suck as much as the other guy so it was crossing the pond so it was when we were bringing planes back and forth you know 2002 2003 for maintenance or whatnot we would stop midway have our you know uniforms and our patches on and we would be approached in at pick a place you know in the world in one of the transitory places and they would come up and we would talk about dates and times and places and call signs i was pretty easy to hunt down um and then we would realize that we were on the battlefield together i have my green notebook of call signs dates locations and uh still it's tucked away with some of my original charts from you know early afghanistan that i'm able to work we can connect the dots i didn't realize the impact we had on the personal side until we met face to face and then it sunk in and when i started to have those experiences or we'd have like a troops in contact situations you could hear it in your guys's voices frankly the dire need you know we feel very much protected or i always felt very much protected in the tin can 10 000 feet above you um i i could not imagine what was i mean i could through the black screen or the white screen or the sensors but i wasn't living what you were so that's a burden that we carried and it's a very intimate burden for us and to know that we're able to you know allow you all to get back to your family to get back to your team to get back to your family to do the mission um really rewarding um and when we would when i would hear it on the radio during the mission or if it was at the end of the mission hey guy you know it was the thank you like you saved you saved your ass tonight i would make sure the entire crew was listening to that so they could hear just the respect and the appreciation for what we had done because it sometimes gets lost so we're hacking the mission um and it's it's definitely that personal touch and i think that's absolutely why a lot of us continue to to stay in and ride it out even when you know there's a lot of sucky times mixed in there no i mean it's incredible and it's it's hard to overstate what that's like you know that that that connection we uh i've never gotten the feeling that the the gunship folks would not do anything for us on the ground and it's it's hard to get past that but i want to talk about that mentality in your air crew coming from sierra and being a ground pounder yourself were you able to impart some of those mannerisms to everybody so that they also understood kind of what it was like from the ground perspective uh and making your team as effective as possible i think um you know as i as i grew in my own skin and my own capability and you know became an instructor i was able to share that you know in the tactical training piece i would say though that just the dirty old gunship crew has that mentality anyway they historically don't go to fancy exercises or stay in fancy hotels they're linked with the army they're living in tents that men test and you sprinkle some gunners in there like it's not it's not a cleaning it's not a can't sleep everybody is gritty it's everything they can do um it's you know the gun show the newer gunships smell much better and they're much cleaner than they were i i might eat my sandwich off before of a gunship today back then there was no two-second rule uh it did not apply to those those old old birds but i think the mentality of the crews were like that that made it a natural fit from me from seer landing in the gunship community because that's just who they are so it was nothing that i brought i just i fit right in with them i so th this kind of whole conversation um kind of brings back like perspective for me so so one thing that i didn't have beforehand you know i i was deploying the same time you were back in those early days and then going through my career ended up being a a patch and all that kind of stuff and i in 2015 to 2016 i did a a deployment where i was the wing weapons officer in bagram and so i was working with the f-16s and you know when you when you're on the ground and you can get frustrated with cruz you know because you're you know you're in a fight and things aren't happening the way you knew you needed to be and that is that is my fault that is the crew's fault like it there's just so much going on and everybody's trying to do their best but they can't do it so one of the perspectives that i had being the women's weapons officer was that so i'm i'm working intimately with the with the f5 f16 pilots and they would come back from a troops in contact and and we would debrief it and i remember one of these troops and contacts is they were doing their absolute best to to help the jtac out and the team out on the ground but no matter what they did just because of the the tactical situation the environment the terrain where the friendlies and the enemy were positioned it's difficult especially in a viper heading that fast it's it's tough right and i could see the the visible just um emotions and pain in them and the frustration because they wanted to do more i mean it you know almost to the fact where they were like you know i'll just lawn dart this thing in if if it meant that i could help these guys out and and i'd never i'd never seen that before that aspect of it so i i think that's important for the attack p the controller the jtag community to understand but um like i imagine you had to have had situations like that where no matter what you do you are trying your best to help these guys out but you just can't so how do you how do you manage that in a healthy mental manner that's a good that's a really good question um i think uh if you if you just look at technology too the fidelity in which we see the battlefield has changed so much you know in in 20 years in 2001 it was you either a white hot or a black hot and you were kind of a blob you know there was some movement to the blah but there was uh the fidelity which we see from our for all of our the pods on the fighter aircraft right our sensors on our other aircraft you know i'm i know if you've got you know what color your shirts that you're wearing you know what's yours what are your shoes and you have laces do you not um so to watch that those firefights or those troops in contact work where um you know frankly we're we have american loss of life or coalition loss of life um where our folks and you know whether it's a fast mover or you know an rpa uh or any aircraft they they fire a weapon and it d it frags somebody they shouldn't um you know with civ kaz would be a good example of that um so there's a lot of situations where things don't go perfect and how do you process that i wish it was as easy as hey take a motrin you're going to feel better tomorrow you know come see me then i because the way you process it the way i process it you know maybe for me it's two days from the event maybe for you it's two years um when when will it come up i think our community air force but afsoc i know has really put their money where their mouth is in the resources to help us navigate what we've seen and been a part of um the hell yeah the spiritual pillar the physical pillar um and that if you're having problems right if you're if you have some issues right you're so baggage you're carrying inside and it manifests itself in many ways we provide the help for that but coming up on the net and saying hey i need some help is no longer taboo we were very much afraid might be a strong word but we very much avoided telling the docs our bosses anybody that anything was wrong with us because then we wouldn't be able to go on the mission and that is no longer the case you know and as we uh assess and select and recruit the next generation they're seeing those resources and giving these tips and techniques from from the professionals that know how to do it on how to navigate that throughout their career instead of trying to fix broken kids like us after that um i think i'm impressed uh some you know some folks might say you know i think when i first started come on board they're like oh come on we don't need this potiph we don't need a doc there was a naysayers i think we're all very skeptical um but i feel like we're believers we're always going to have some skeptics but the majority of the force those that have gone through it and walked through the other side and are back out on mission live and proof um that it that does it's not going to take it away from you we're here to help you we we invest in you so we want to keep you as long as long as we can um if you're broken physically we want to fix you to keep you as long as we can um so i feel like uh i can't i feel like i didn't really answer the question specifically because there's no one answer but i i would love to tell the audience that the res we care the resources are there if you're having challenges working through a situation that you found yourself in personally or professionally we're there to help and everybody's bought in i don't know how you think about that what do you think about it oh yeah i mean we've we've brought a potato for for for everybody doesn't know what potiph is um it's preservation of the force in the family um i you know special tactics or air force special warfare asoc and socom in general um are very focused on this is is a you know i would i wouldn't say it's at the the number one priority but it's it's real close because i mean the mission and the people are always number one priority and guess what potiph helps all of that so it's it is kind of right in there and um you know we just we having a conversation with the um socoms potiph director in fact you were on their their podcast the socom softcast a couple months ago but um you know and they're what people don't understand is that socom has to go to congress every year and ask for this money so it's not a guarantee but the the benefits that the commands have been seeing and the way we've been able to help people out is enormous and um and i think it's very important i think we've got to continue to chase after this money and now they're going after a kind of a cognitive aspect of it too so not only you know strength nutrition spiritual um and i'm probably missing one on there but you know they're going after the brain health side of it so i think that's important and i think that you know when you talk about kind of us us old folks that have you know already already have the trauma i think that that's still that's going to be able to help us in the future absolutely absolutely yeah so um i mean i i know i know i keep banging on about potiph but but i mean i use the hell out of them um all the time i i am not one to shy away from from utilizing potus i think it's i think it's the uh it's the type a's it's the influencers within the organization giving those resources the credibility for others to go right because we are we all us we all look up to somebody inside our formation and if those people are using those resources and talking about it um we're more likely to go so it's it's important it's not just leadership down and in it's up in it it's you know it's internal it's left and right it's you know it takes everybody yeah it takes definitely a lot of maturity to find yourself in that position and realize it and then actually admit it and go get help and uh uh definitely wasn't the traditional like you were talking about uh way that we explained everything and how you're supposed to grow up you're supposed to you know like shrug off everything and you're invincible right that's kind of how we used to be uh trained but there are times for that and there are times when you need to fix yourself because nobody's invincible so um you know talking about some of the stuff in your career um you know whether or not i'm sure you probably won't admit it but you had a pretty awesome and prestigious career you know going from the stuff that you've we're talking about before uh to go into the element command at socom headquarters and then also now the deputy commander of the 24th special operations wing which is a pretty big deal for those people listen i know for most of the civilians it's just numbers and stuff with some acronyms but that's a pretty big deal especially within the special tactics community because you are in charge of a lot of special tactics special operations airmen um so you know kind of along that vein do you think um what has it been like you know working so closely with those airmen and things and the missions that they're doing and you know kind of being on the leadership side not so much in the seat watching the action happen as much um how's that experience been for you it's been terrible because i want to be in the seat going again i think you long for those days um i i have i have you know i would say that i've stumbled up mine bumbled my way from good deal to good deal uh incredible teammates even john you know jobs that i that i would end up working i didn't know anything about it didn't sound very good and somebody was you know kicking me from behind through the door to to take it um it's been the insight and the access right hacking the mission and being tactically proficient is uh really rewarding and that's why we come in and and you you care about your team you care about the mission you don't really understand the importance maybe a career or or maybe you understand you don't really care because you're very mission focused i think i absolutely went through that that phase quite it was quite a long phase where that's all i cared about um and then you get put into leadership positions where it's not just about the risk uh that you're taking it's you're carrying the burden uh for the risk of others and it's i think there was a defining moment for me where i was you know always fine with taking you know leading from you know from the front and being a team player never asking folks to do something i wouldn't do myself and it's acceptable risks because that's what we all sign up to do it was when i would look at the families and as a young spouse young child baby uh and then we would pick up and go overseas to for a deployment that first the first time i was in this you know senior leadership position and i was taking crews to combat where it was on my shoulders like i would be the one that would have to have the conversation if it didn't go well that was uh a defining moment for me and i didn't think all of that through until you put names to faces and you see the stressors that are on young families you know going to war i uh i thrive in in the people area i enjoy seeing others succeed so you know as i had to step away from it being the go-to guy in the platform and they clipped my wings i wasn't flying anymore to see others succeed personally like in their lives but professionally in and out of the office like it was it's rewarding um and that is that's frankly why i stick around if i can impact one person who will then impact another then uh you know just we keep we continue to create a winning team i uh success is great you know winning doesn't suck but failure uh you know it might have been it might not be a significant failure but failure you learn more from that than success any day of the week unfortunately right eating humble pie is never gonna taste good but if you can take those lessons of what you stumbled over and how you failed and how you would do it differently and we share it and you're confident enough to go hey guess what guys i screwed this up don't do it don't do it this way or i recommend this or here's what i learned from it i didn't see this coming so many so many stories of uh well there i was um if you can share those and then those folks learn from it that i feel is is pretty darn successful um i i and then as i've had higher jobs right i was fortunate enough to work for the afsot commander on his tag was general wooster at the time years ago as a young major and then most recently before coming to the 2-4 sal i was the uh cag being commander's action group i was working on the commander's action group for the socom commander i spent a year with general thomas in a year with general clark in command and the insight and the access and understanding what problems keep them up at night how they navigate those how the component commanders navigate the issues within each of the their respective uh lanes and how we all come together to feed the big soho caw machine very helpful um and insightful to uh to to being a more informed leader we get policy changes we get guidance we get all of these things handed down to us uh and we grumble about it sometimes because we don't quite understand it so being being at that level and seeing it written seeing the discussions and then being able to explain it to the layman like me down into the other organizations that's where i found value or i could provide value to the others but uh yeah there's it's uh it was super rewarding not a job that i would i ever sought to have i would just kind of get just thrown in there um and and they were i was uh lucky enough that they didn't think i was gonna screw it up so they gave me the opportunity yeah i also just wanted to point out um one other thing about your career as far as the position that you're holding right now um i think you're one of the first non-st commanders that have come around in charge of the special operations wing and just like we said it's uh you know the position that you have is nothing it's well earned and um i think you know for those people out there listening i just wanted to point that out because you know your personality obviously lends really well to the community and you speak the same language you have all the same type of stories and everything like that and you know it's well respected how did you feel whenever you first got into that role you're like oh i fit in perfectly or is it like i don't know if i'm supposed to be in this command position because i didn't do these specific things but how did you feel about that sure being here in the 2-4 that's not the first time that's happened to me now you know i left gunships went off to school came back and i landed in in the u-28s as a as the d.o and then the commander i knew nothing about that little airplane um so i was tactically in proficient right i i was just uh i carried the burden of not being the expert in the weapon system so i land here in the 2-4 sal i am not the expert in the weapon system and over time it's it's probably a combination of life experience maturity confidence in who i am um and what i can bring to the fight that i am able to not be so concerned about not being the best combat controller or pararescueman or iso i am not that that's not why i was brought here um i uh i was brought here for perspective for leadership to you know provide guidance to get the units what they need to go get after the mission but but uh you always feel a sense of of inadequacy when you land in a in a uh a job that you're not the expert in i think that's pretty human to be like oh man like i'm not there and i'll tell you that it was you know my husbands are a tides retired seer specialist and i'm gonna give them props just because he said it best when i when i was like man am i am i equipped for this and i've said it many times throughout my career but specifically the two force out like am i like i don't have any expertise in any of their um specialties you know i understand i've worked with them side by side but man i don't know and my husband said it best he said if you were to go into a back to a flying unit you would spend a bunch of time trying to get really good at what you do to be tactically proficient he's like you're not at the to force out to go call cass all right you're not you're not there to kick in the door and shoot the enemy between the eyes you're there to just be you and it i didn't want to tell him he's right because i'm never you're never supposed to tell your spouse that right no no um but i thought about that and it really resonated he's like i'm like wow that's it's almost like the pressure's off like i get to go understand and be with the units to see what the challenges are to help them navigate it or help them work through a process right organized training equip piece to make it easier and more effective and efficient but i don't have to spend the time trying to prove to them that i'm one of them because i'm not it's not what i'm brought here for um i just need to really work at where i can make a difference so the burden was off and i think uh you know to the earlier point if i had landed an aviation unit i probably would have been drawn right back into oh i gotta get back in the aircraft i've got to be really good at what i do in this position i was i was able to separate myself i don't know that i would have been able to do that you know 10 years ago i i think i still would have been caught up in the tactical piece and and maybe carried a burden that i i probably didn't need to be carrying now i'm like i'm just too old i know i'm not i'm not gonna be good at it and if plus it's fun you know i'll go to a unit they'll give me a handler to keep me out of trouble they'll show me what's going on and uh we can have a good day i think everybody's felt that that the having to let go of that tactical role and move up is uh it's challenging um but one of one of the other roles that you uh you're in charge of or things that you're working on is it as a the sow you guys are just not just worried about the here and the now y'all are leaning forward and so when we get someone like you with a strategic level job on of course we're gonna ask how's the 20 30 vision where are we going do you have any updates for us you know not loaded question at all no not loaded at all i and i we're gonna we are gonna answer it today no not right now here it is breaking news um it that is a challenging it's a challenging question we all we all see the writing on the wall like there's lots of pivots going on av sock is pivoting so common is pivoting the air force is pivoting um we have been charged with maintaining the cbeo fight that is something that you know socom commander will they'll will accept no risk and we'll continue to do that so that spear has to stay sharp we know what that looks like um and now we're uh and we're trying to train uh to what we think it might evolve too right for for 20 years we have been really successful and we have evolved if we look at special warfare special tactics specifically we have evolved by contact so we we went to the fight the enemy would change the ttp then we would jump ahead and they would change again and they'd pop up somewhere else with a new t and we would change again and we were chasing technology as were they and uh and we were really effective right and now we're asking folks to change we're asking st specifically to he continue to mow the grass in the veo fight but now i want you to pivot to you know this preparation environment you know this uh anti you know china russia focus and it's gray uh it i call it squishy because there are some specific tasks there are some specific problem sets that were that we're staring at and we're trying to solve but there's a lot of unknowns and to uh to most of us we want to be told what to do hey what do you need to do don't tell me how to do it just tell me what you need to have done and i'll get it done for you um and and we can't do that right now we're starting to reorganize ourselves internally and we're starting to figure out what training maybe what new technology are there additional skill sets we need to have inside our own formation for our uh with our own pipeline but are there different skill sets we want to acquire to add on to our special tactics teams are they are they other people or is it something that we want to take on um so if you look at the you know how the if we do talk about our special tactics in our 720 special tactics group and they're starting to orient um to the different problems we're moving in the right direction because that's where afsoc is going afstock is looking at how do we continue to counter the veo fight and how do we ensure that we are our technology isn't behind our people and our skill sets aren't behind for a potential future fight or to prevent a future fight um this it's it's uh i i've said this before this question is hard because i can't give a black and white answer and i think we all like to be somebody to shoot us straight um so the shooting straight there's a lot of unknowns we're going to have to experiment we're going to have to start to figure out uh what technology might look like and if it isn't right be prepared to divest of that and pivot again there's a lot of uncertainty but i am certain that special tactics special warfare will be a part of that fight um they are the most credible force uh inside our air force they uh we right our community um walks in a room and it's obvious that you've got somebody who's gonna get the job done we create problem solvers right so if we continue to invest in our people and we allow them to identify what we think the problem might be we're going to have to face or where is the niche mission for special tactics airmen in this future fight we give them the platform we organize we train we equip we give them the priority to to train to those capabilities we're going to learn a lot from it and and some frankly i think some things aren't going to work out and we're going to have to be prepared to pivot away from those and then those that those things that work we need to be able to uh prioritize and continue to to pursue uh and and invest in but i think you nailed it with the the the community that we're in with the special tactics folks and and it's a moving target that we're getting after as far as i can tell and i think one of the things that we are really good at is empowering uh some pretty low-ranking people to go out there and we give them the tools and be like hey go figure this out and you know the worst environment imaginable and i think if you look at the history time after time our people come through way more often than not and they they solve those problems and they get it done and that just goes to the um to me to how the community operates all the way up through the south you know what i mean and you know yeah i think our people are probably frustrated i think they're frustrated because there's a sense of you know am i valued am i going to be valuable where do you need me and oh by the way give me something to do because i got to do something right now um and where we see the decrease of uh required missions for the veo fight right we're deploying less uh so we're going to see a pivot back to high i think high-end training and high-end exercises and i think all of our components are our joint partners are going to be doing the same um but i absolutely sense the frustration as to well what is the next i'm so used to knowing what the next is uh and that is what brought me maybe that's why guys came in hey i want to be a part of this fight and now this fight isn't happening whoa what what am i going to be asked to do well there will be the next well there will be a next you know problem that will come up much like you know after 9 11 post 9 11 and the war on terror the folks that i flew with that first night in 2001 never saw that coming um and that's all we know um right we've been running hard for the last 20 years the next problem we will all be and we'll be sitting in our rocking chairs i will be hopefully being envious and then hey boy well there i was don't forget don't forget about me um my fight was better than your fight now uh but i i i just know wholeheartedly you know as you look at the talent i look you know just talking to you guys today and i across the formation like it's i'm pretty confident whatever comes we're gonna crush it yeah and i think everyone that is in this community is looking for a purpose that aligns with our values and like you said we're looking to get the job done no matter what like where's this next thing that i need to do where's the next where's the next and how much more can i take on because we all know based on being around other people and unfortunately we've lost other people that we only have a little bit of time here and we want to get as much done as we can and you know try and help as many people along the way as we possibly can well we're still able to you know maybe there will be one a day where we're not able to but uh hopefully it's not anytime soon so you know kind of along the mindset of that um talking about some of the other airmen that are watching this because like you know we have a kind of a wider audience most of people are interested in st and then you know everyone else that's just looking for awesome guests and some of the things they have to say for the people that are in right now and their younger airmen listening to the podcast would you have any advice based off of your career and how you've kind of taken advantage of each of the opportunities that have been given to you that you would tell some of those airmen right now that are going in and what they can do to kind of put themselves out there a little bit more and make sure they get the full experience of the air force and get every drop out of it they can yeah wow um i think um i think it's uh just i have i fear regret right so i i'm uh i am somebody who will try something and if it doesn't work out well i'll be like well and i'm never gonna try that one again but uh i will at least try um i think that if uh if what we're talking about today if the missions are appealing to the folks that are thinking about coming in and take the leap i never thought when i enlisted in the air force that i would be in today i just hit 29 years this past month of total service at three years i'm like i'm getting out there's no way i'm staying in you know six years said the same thing again uh and you know god's got a plan for all of us not for him and believe that and i think you need to trust yourself but if you don't trust yourself completely because you feel like you might not be good enough know that we train our job is to train folks to be more than good enough we will get you there you just got to have the mind over matter the heart the drive if you're you know if you're a quitter we don't want you um we want you we don't want to stick through it but some folks may feel like they could uh you know want want to be a part of it and they join and they realize it's not quite for them i have bad respect for those folks uh they you know they have stepped into a realm that you know most folks never would would never have done uh so i appreciate folks that even try i'm not trying to to bag on them because what we ask of our our our people is pretty darn difficult um i would say that you'd be surprised at how fast a career can go and how time will fly and frankly the service gives folks in a time of uncertainty in our in our country in our world some stability um it gives you some predictability it gives you something on your resume and it will teach you more about yourself than you ever thought uh and instill confidence for whatever it is if you come in for four years six years or you spend a career the time in in the service specifically in our communities will be defining and you just won't realize it when you're 18 19 or 20 you're going to realize it a few years later when you're when you're talking and reflecting back on your life and career how defining it was because i i yeah i think i just figured not yesterday no no it's i mean it's almost uh like we've brought up you know regret is a bad thing or maybe regret is hell i don't know trent probably has something to say about regret but whatever right behind me i don't know what to say about it so awesome man well um final round of question i know we kind of gave you a uh a nice icebreaker to the angel of death call sign but you know the three of us were kind of wondering what does it feel like when a 105 cracks off uh on the back of your plane ah it's you know so as a as a nav you sit sideways so that you feel it you absolutely feel it um you know i have uh there's a couple of 105 shows you know alan yoshida has one of his 105 shells from 2001. um that was a uh it was it's incredible um for us again we talked about their relationship um that to be able to close the loop on that kind of a mission but i tell you the big gun is uh i know you guys love her we love her um until she can be replaced with a no kidding death ray i think she uh she'll be wanted on the battlefield absolutely i know i you know i i have a couple 105s from from things that that i did uh here decided to give them to my kids so they don't know they don't understand they're called yeah okay cool like what am i supposed to do with this thing but i think later on they'll appreciate it yeah later they will i'll tell you that um you talk about 105 brass there were that first push in in 2001 i was able to bring some brass back to some fire stations in new york city uh and yeah i went i came back home to bring an airplane home it was february of 02 and my dogs we had two yellow labs that were up at my uh brother's house so i went to uh go see my family just while i was home for a month and um uh brought brass to those fire stations you know just we just drove you know drove down to new york city and uh i just wanted them to know that we were making them pay um and it was i had a picture of the crew slapped on there kind of told probably on the bottom it's got maybe a date on it and our call sign and they uh they were so grateful i didn't i didn't i probably just didn't think through how they were gonna react i just wanted them to know hey like we're out there and we're getting after it we're not gonna let your brothers you know die without a little payback um so it was uh yeah it was pretty pretty rewarding to be able to do that oh that's awesome and i think that's really cool of you to do that so ma'am we really appreciate you coming on i think anybody that's listening to this or watching this on on youtube spotify um i think you've got a fantastic story to tell you know 29 year career starting off as a seer specialist transitioning to ac 130 and then the beginning stages of war and i mean now 29 years later you're you're out leading men and women in the 2-4 special operations wing so i think it's it's pretty awesome and we we sincerely appreciate you joining us ah thanks for having me always humble it's always humbling for me to hang out with you guys so and and get me to talk about days past awesome well we'll have to do it again i got a feeling that uh just based off of other episodes that you may be a request to come back just to tell for story time because we have some people that have some incredible stories and as long as you're able to articulate it well like people want to hear it all right awesome i know my fam my boys don't want to hear it so yeah that's okay neither is my family all right everybody thanks for listening we appreciate it train hard thanks [Music] you

Channel: Ones Ready

Views: 6,565

Keywords: Col Allison Black, Angel of Death, ones ready podcast, ones ready, afsoc a&s, afsoc motivation, afsoc unfiltered, afsoc special reconnaissance, afsoc sr, afsoc cct, AFSOC PJ, us military, air force, Special Tactics, 724 STS, air force special tactics squadron, air force special tactics training, air force special tactics operators, air force special tactics combat controller, Pararescue, Special reconnaissance air force, AC130, Spectre, Gunship, USAF, Close Air Support, CAS, JTAC

Id: ms-u9zAe9Ws

Length: 60min 30sec (3630 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 17 2021