CNN’S DAVID GERGEN: WHERE IS AMERICA HEADED?

well last stop anyway that that means we have  officially convened another session of the   Commonwealth Club and for our television viewers  and radio viewers particularly I want to say I'm   proud to have sitting to my left David Gorgon who  is a individual so familiar to us going back if   you go back this far to the Nixon White House  through the Ford presidency Ronald Reagan and   William Jefferson Clinton who did I leave I Grover  Cleveland oh I forgot yeah yeah well I knew I was   gonna screw up it's been more fake news the thing  about David I'm gonna say a little bit about the   fact that he runs a school and leadership at  Harvard he graduated from Harvard Law School   he's obviously I've been a excellent author  and a friend principally a commentator on PBS   and see any CNN among others what did I leave out  local TV station but the the gap that David fills   is the need for to have somebody who can make  sense out of all of this we have screamers on   the Left swimmers on the right and that seems  to be the format for a lot of entertainment   news these days David is different David has a  perspective historical experience and also the   broad perspective of what constitutes leadership  and what constitutes of them the principles of   a democracy that we have to make sure that  we preserve so that's what we're driving at   today David and I think all of us have a deep  hunger for hearing some rational insights in to   what's going on and let me say one thing before I  actually let David talk is that we're speaking on   July 24th 2018 July 25th 2018 things may be very  different we live tweet yeah five five tweets and   etc so we have to qualify everything by say we're  talking as of today on this David I'm gonna start   with a very general question we're talking about  where is America headed that's the topic today   but really to answer that question we have to  know where we are now and I'm gonna will explore   that a little bit but let's start at the 35 foot  altitude because you travel around the country you   speak with people what do you see as the general  psyche or emotional attitude of America right now   well thank you thank you first and foremost for  coming here today I appreciate the I think this   is my fifth or sixth time at the Commonwealth  Club and I've always been well treated and we've   had respectful dialogue and I'm looking forward  to more of that today and congratulations on   your new building this is terrific and I George  and all of you observe a great deal of credit I   was good to be here with Kimberly who has been  your development person for the last five years   I guess came here in the midst of the early days  of all of this and Roy thank you for being here to   host leroy's a like I can't seem to hold down  a job right we've all had sort of these we've   jumped from lily pad to lily pad as we go along  so where are we I must say for starters there's   no line that I think applies today if you're  not confused you don't know what's going on yeah we've entered a passage that I think all of  us are finding difficult to understand I wake up   some morning and thinking asking am i still living  in the same country I thought I was living in who   are these people who who believed so differently  and it's very clear that we've entered a period of   enormous transition and David Brooks would argue  that were going through a paradigm shift and I   think that at West Point they now with the young  cadets before they become officers they describe   to them the world that they're going to find once  they leave West Point and they use an acronym   V you see a V you see a VUCA and it stands for  volatility uncertainty chaos and ambiguity and it   doesn't that typify the world that so many of us  find ourselves in regardless of what field you're   in we're talking about politics and public affairs  here today but in almost any field there the the   sense of being unrooted uprooted and disrupted you  know disruption is I favor at work now in business   schools to help young MBA types understand how  the world is turning the upside down and this   started long before Trump and I it's curious to me  about what held us together before and why we're   not holding together now I remember back in the  days of the toward the end of the Cold War and   we were when the wall was coming down the Soviet  Union was collapsing and Georgie Arbit off who   was a ran the USSR u.s. think-tank in Moscow told  some of visiting Americans work he said we've the   Russians are going to do something very dangerous  for you we're going to remove your sense of an   enemy your sense of an enemy is what kept you  together and now with the end of the Cold War   people are going in different directions but it's  obviously more than that the the changes of taking   place in technology have been extraordinarily  disruptive for the most part very positive but   for an awful lot of people they have left it's  been harder yes sir it's also true in the world   of trade and and entering globalization have there  have been many winners but there have been also a   lot of losers the Joseph Schumpeter the group  famous economist years and years ago said that   capitalism was a form of creative destruction and  people get hurt in creative destruction and we   haven't had very good ways to solve the problems  with people who gotten hurt and they have a lot of   grievances and increasingly as we have dispersed  as a people and sorted ourselves out the growing   the great unwinding is George Packer has called  it has meant that we don't know our neighbors   as well as we once did and more importantly we  tend to live in neighborhoods with people mostly   like us so that if you're in West Virginia or a  flyover country you know you're living in a very   different universe almost then if you're living  in San Francisco or Boston where I live in it so   I think we have to understand that the world is  changing changing rapidly started before Trump   and frankly it's going to worry I don't think the  end of Trump means the end of uncertainty or the   end of polarization oh the end of a poisonous  politics what I do think is true is that we   have come through tough periods before and one of  the great hallmarks of this country has been our   resilience I commend to you a new book by Jon  Meacham one of my favorite authors these days   he's got a book out of you what do you hear you  call these the cars John Meacham's got a book out   called the soul of America and it's quite striking  in the early part of the book about the early days   of the founding our you know I think most people  appreciate that but there are long sections on   times that we have not remembered as well as we  should such as the reconstruction in the south   and then the rise of the KKK and the Jim Crow laws  that came with that we're really difficult times   much more so than we understand but we worked our  way through them and came out on the other side we   worked our way through the depression and came out  on the other side yeah Winston Churchill you know   once said you know we haven't we haven't come this  far through such hard times because we're made of   cotton candy we're made it you know there's a  much stronger fiber in the American tradition   that has allowed us to bounce back I don't think  we're smarter than other people yeah we've made   a lot of mistakes in our public life over time  but we tend to self-correct for mistakes that's   been our history I know I think the the looming  question and Jon Meacham book is pretty pretty   optimistic about where we're heading where we're  going but the looming question is whether we are   going to find that our growing multi-ethnic  society is going to be able to hold together   you know we have a we have our national motto  meze e pluribus unum e pluribus unum from many   one and there's a big question whether we now have  too much pluribus and not enough unum and whether   we can bring ourselves back yeah there I think the  Royal image will wrap this up by saying the one of   the overriding issues that perhaps the overriding  issue right now in our public life is whether our   democracy is going to survive as we have known it  all over the world there is a hunger now given the   changing conditions all countries are grappling  with there's a hunger for new leadership and for   breaking out of traditions and in some countries  that's going pretty well with the fresh leadership   I would argue look at France and McCrone he's  taking off very very well he is Angela Merkel   is having to fight a rearguard action and it's  losing some of her Authority in Europe he's and   emerging as the leader of the European Union  he's and he's you know he formed a political   party by himself basically I don't know where  and came and captured the the the the rains   in Paris yeah there's this wonderful picture at  the end of the World Cup I don't know if you've   seen this picture one again when he stand him to  cheering the you know the French win and there's   so much and like dynamism and charisma and what  he did as you look at that and said no wonder the   French feel so revived he's bringing interesting  things to it Argentina's in the country which is   under McCrea is coming along very very well but  look at look at Canada i I think what Trudeau   was doing in Canada is quite fascinating he is  important to have his cabinet or women he was   made empowerment the central theme and the central  emphasis of his of his time and leadership there   he will not go on a public panel he won't bone  any panel that is not gender balanced that means   one of us has to leave here yeah maybe it'll be me  but but but and he's very popular because of that   because he's you know the the agenda has changed  a lot a lot of things that are on people's minds   today are different in that and and equity whether  it's a gender equity or economic equity is become   central to what we are so so in some countries  these things have gone very well but there are   a great number of countries where this thirst for  new leadership is actually led down the wrong path   and that is in the number of countries in which  democratically elected leaders have taken their   countries into authoritarianism now and it's the  health of democracy the threats to democracy the   one I think is is that I would commend to you  yes why democracies or how democracies die how   democracies dies by two Harvard professors it's  it's very accessible as fairly short is but it   has a big message and essentially in argues look  up through the end of the Cold War a number of   governments toppled but they mostly top it with  the hands of military dictatorships since the   end of the Cold War countries that have changed  directions that are moving toward authoritarians   are doing so at the hands of newly elected  Democrats democratically elected people and these   strong men have emerged in countries Europe is  the most obvious example for any American whether   you look at Hungary or Poland or especially Turkey  but now what's going on in Italy the the alt-right   movements that are building up are taking those  countries in much more authoritarian directions   than they're shaking the European Union to their  core you can go on from there into around the   world whether it be the Philippines or Venezuela  or yeah you there there are a dozen countries it's   a serious major countries that have moved to are  in authoritarian directions and that is the big   question because America has not yet entered  a more authoritarian period but there there   are trend lines now in this country which are  the prelude to authoritarianism you know in the   countries which have gone and those directly in  that direction almost uniformly the democratically   elected leaders have started by denigrating and  dismantling and and driving down the approval of   its if it's justice authorities the of the legal  authority of the country they've all been treated   as you know we can't trust them they've been  denigrated and there's been an effort then in some   of several countries to denigrate other forms of  authority outside their the realm of the strongman   such as the intelligence agencies in all those  countries there's been a tax on the Free Press   because what and what we see is systemically  an effort to denigrate everybody who's not   the leader or around there within the circle of  the leader does that sound fairly familiar yeah   so that to me we're not there yet but we should  be very vigilant we should be afraid very afraid   of where all these things could lead and that's  not to me is this serious challenge in overriding   that if I'm one more minute the authors of how  democracies die point out in their concluding   pages that America is moving in a direction  which we celebrate I celebrates the living in   San Francisco you celebrate and the diversity  in our country I find very appealing I think   it's one of our great strengths though Clinton  used to say diversity should not be our enemy   it should be our strength I believe that to be  true it is also true as they point out in that   book about democracy's dying that we are moving  toward a majority minority country right there's   not going to be any group which is a majority  whites are going to be outnumbered by other   groups already in California already in the  places like you know Arizona and New Mexico   but it's coming down to the whole country and they  make the argument that no multi-ethnic Society in   modern times has succeeded very well in keeping a  democracy so a lot of this depends on how we live   with each other and how we listen to people with  other perspectives and words to how while we're   respectful and empathic and I understand this is  a big diverse country and their diversity should   be our strength thank you you know let's drill  down on that a bit you talked about your concern   our democracy maybe I jeopardy and if you think  about our democracy it's it's really founded on   the notion of representative democracy as for I'm  going to say four branches of government we have   the article one two three but then we have the  freedom of the press under the First Amendment   it strikes me that let's take those separately  let's talk first about our Congress one of the   assumptions in the way our founders structured  it is that the members of Congress would decide   questions based on what they felt was the common  good yes you can disagree what that is right   but that's the that's the guideline I'm concerned  with citizens united and other factors that we're   losing that and I wonder if you could comment  on how you see the Congress functioning right   now well the Congress is not functioning well  at all let's start with that and I think members   themselves feel embarrassed about what you know  they didn't how do you feel if you run run where I   have to raise a ton of money you get to Washington  you work yeah you could wake up or one morning   you read a poll that says that members of Congress  are less seen less favorably than cockroaches that   really make gives you a lot of inspiration you  know to get in there and fight for the good cause   look one of the things that's going on that has  been I think is now finally receiving a serious   attention is it beyond money they'll come back to  money but it's a degree of gerrymandering that we   have you know the economists just did a big cover  package on the run how unequal we are because of   Jerry man hey look what happens is it every 10  years we take a national census right and once   you have the national census in then you figure  out how do you distribute the seats for members of   Congress to fit how the population has changed and  that means that lines are redrawn and often you   know states notice and and the Sunbelt have been  seeing Rises and populations so you have to create   more congressional districts and states in the  Northeast for example and other some other states   are shrinking in population as a percentage and  they have to route they have to reduce the number   of seats so there's a lot of line-drawing that  goes into that every 10 years they're Republicans   who have been who have been much more strategic  than Democrats as a general proposition for the   last 10 20 years saw along ago that the census of  20,000 and 10 was going to be very determinative   of our politics and the 10 years that followed up  to 2020 and so they put a big effort into winning   the governorships and winning the state houses of  state legislatures back in 2010 off-year elections   and they and they very quickly they gathered  you know lots and lots of power and so in most   states the lines have been redrawn by Republicans  and the lines are drawn in such a way that if the   Democrats beat the Republicans and if you count  tally up all the votes that are coming in the   midterm and the Democrats win by say $100,000 over  the Republicans the Republicans are going to hold   the house 200,000 300,000 the Democrats in order  to win back the house are estimated to need a   seven-point lead a seven-point lead in total those  over the other side that means it's got to be like   Lee 5346 that is a big win that that means you've  got to have a big wave to get there and that's why   they're Democrats right now are chomping to bit  they think that their wave will be big enough   nobody can be quite certain a wave that big is  very very unusual and it means the Democrats if   they resist if they want to build up the reason  they have to stay at it and they have to take   their politics as seriously as conservatives have  you know the Republicans you you may think their   ideas are wrong but watch their strategy they play  for keeps they're serious about it and they're not   weekend warriors they're in it because they care  deeply about the principles they're fighting for   and they're willing to fight hard for them and  politics ain't beanbag you know it's a run it so   it's a contact sport and if the Democrats want  to win this and they should be in a position of   win this right that means that they've got to  really stay at it and build up build up a big   coalition people to pour out and that may or  may not happen but understand that that system   is tilted is tilted toward the Republicans the  same thing is true of the electoral college you   know and that you you the obvious tilt there when  California only gets you know guess it did when   you go to vote and count fornia your vote counts  for like 1 101 1 7 tons worth or what it means in   a state like Montana you know in terms of how  many people vote how many seats they get as a   result of that in the Senate and then there's the  influence of money and money has been a if it's   been such a crucial factor I'd like to just one  thing before we leave I'd like to talk a little   bit about signs of hope because you can get pretty  depressed we all right I'm saving that yes exactly   because I do want to talk a little bit about the  younger generation but the the the money that I've   gotten for close to some campaigns this year and  it's stunning to me how much time they have to   spend on it how important it is to get through a  primary how much money you have to raise and it's   you've got to be at it constantly and if once  you give you know fifty dollars to one of these   campaigns you will hear from them 500 times you  know because they can use the internet to get to   you and one thing another and they're but they're  so dependent on the money and their system is out   of way out of whack and you take all of that and  then take the fact that the middle of American   politics has essentially disappeared and people  don't work across the island whew if you're if   you're a Republican moderate and you vote with  the Democrats you will get a Democrat you will   get a primary opponent who's going to come at you  from your right and if you're a moderate Democrat   you're gonna get a primary opponent who is likely  to come at you from your left and so the all the   incentives if you're in the early centrist person  is to move to the edge is to move to the extreme   that there's are a built-in extent incentives for  that and what that means is that the politics has   become increasingly polarized and and poisonous we  if you look at the data now there great number of   people in this country who do not want their son  or daughter to marry someone from the other party   seriously well seriously yeah and and that's like  a big deal you know the how many of us are no I   know families where there's a one member of the  family voted for Trump and there's not a member   of two members of the family who voted you know  for Hillary and if you don't want to talk about   that Thanksgiving you know you just you don't want  to go there yeah your family is more important and   each of the groups looks and the other one said  oh my god and going on college campuses a big deal   on college campuses now ditch I mean because  the liberal fractions have taken over so many   college campuses you know the Conservatives don't  feel welcomed and a lot of parents you know among   Republicans right now 57 percent of Republicans  say American colleges and universities are bad for   the nation majority of Republicans think they're  bad for they because they and they said why don't   want to play sixty thousand dollars to have my  kid go to that school and have be indoctrinated   and turn into a communist or socialist  socialist that's a big thing have you asked   young people today do you believe in socialism or  capitalism more people say socialism and for the   Conservatives that means where'd they get that  they went to college yeah they got brainwashed   in college how could they possibly believe that  and I gave I paid sixty thousand dollars a year   for that for that investment listen so I I think  it's important to understand that a lot of this   started before Trump its accelerated under TRO  and we're moving more rapidly in the direction   where the sides are like this you know they're  clinched III came from a time I miss them so   much the World War two generation was running  Washington there were people who basically were   young men and young women who came through the  Second World War most we had seven presidents in   a row from John Kennedy through George HW Bush who  all wore a military uniform and and all but one   served during the Second World War Jimmy Carter  was in the Naval Academy when the war ended and   he went on serve honorably then all seven that  were heavily influenced and shaped by the that   experience Roy is a veteran of a Marine veteran  and you know how it was incredibly shaping yeah   very very very shaping but it taped people in a  positive way when I went to Washington in 1970   or so there were people who consider themselves  strong Democrats or people who consider themselves   strong Republicans but they thought of themselves  as first and foremost strong Americans they had   fought under the same flag and there was certain  affinity and because they'd sacrificed together   but they were all in it together you know famously  you know Reagan Tip O'Neill relationship we had a   very conservative president a very liberal  Speaker of the House and in days where they   wouldn't talk to each other right but then they  had an understanding that before five o'clock   each one of them could get up on a soapbox and  give a pretty good slug to the other one and   that was just sort of the way it was but after  five o'clock you put down your differences and   you could lift up a glass and you could tell  all hours and jokes and stories and laugh and   scratch to have a good time together and Reagan  and Tip actually then work together on various   major legislative initiatives starting with Social  Security reform in 1982-83 they got that done in   a bipartisan way later on they worked on tax  reform over hoping a whole tax system they got   that done with a supermajority and the Senate you  know with 65 67 votes on tax reform and so Reagan   and and and tip and developed this relationship  first of all I started working together then   they started trusting each other and then there  was actually an affection for each other so in   tip turned like 70 I think it was Reagan gave a  birthday party for him in the White House at the   end of the band had all his tips friends there  at the end of the luncheon Reagan got up and   gave a toast and he written out this doggerel  as he was given to do he he said tip if I add   to heaven and you didn't have one too well I'd  give my ticket back and go to hell with you yeah   there was a lot of goodwill yeah and we haven't  seen that you know Danny Rostenkowski Democrat   and John Boehner Republican in Washington used to  drive back to their homes in the Midwest together   mmm for we couldn't went back for a weekend they  did get in the same car and drive back together   there was a lot of that there was a real you  know I went when Teddy died Orrin Hatch came to   his funeral he sang you know there was a genuine  friendship among people like that and we've lost   it out of that the politics has lost some of his  sweetness its lost some of the bonds that hold   people together and to go back to the C pluribus  unum they were united and that's their leaders of   the future when to have to be people who unite  us who that's who we're gonna look up to and I   think I think we can get there but more about  later wait yeah that one and so I want to talk   about the second mature issues the fourth branch  of government the thought it was a press well   journalism I was fake press fake news right well  both kinds yeah the yeah I mean you've actually   just asked the question for me because it strikes  me that there's an overwhelming attack right now   on the cannot just the pinions of journalism but  the credibility and the validity of journalism   and to your business well I think they attack  sit and I think they've been vastly overdone we   know one thing that the Russians are paying for  some of them the Russians are actively trying   to sow divisions among us and they take out these  websites they take out these the various positions   on the internet and go after you and go after and  spread they intentionally spread things that are   true and they make the press they try to make  the press look ridiculous it's been extremely   disturbing that the same attack on the press has  been coming so frequently out of this White House   I have known presidents in the past who have been  very good I can just recite chapter in verse of   how upset people have been at various individual  stories but in the past the the relationship has   worked because of a sense of professionalism my  side recognition Reagan for example was elected   as a conservative most conservative and yet he  had very very good press evaluations in fact   you know one person said he Blumenthal who was  a journalist you know described he wrote a book   called on bended knee and he said in effect that  the press had been on bended knee to Reagan well   the reason Reagan got along well was not because  he curried favor with them or flattered them it   was because he respected them and he understood  if you're a journalist you've got a different job   you've got your you you have to report to your  readers they're your boss that's different from   what a president may feel and what his alliance  is no loyalties are to the larger population   and we have I think introduced this notion that  journalists are savages who were only out there   to to bring Trump down or to bring you know which  isn't true I mean people around him ahead people   around Bill Clinton could barely speak to the  New York Times they were so angry about things   that were printed there but it was also true the  George W Bush yeah people around bush wouldn't   read the New York Times because they thought  they were so nasty well that's you know there's   not as much less favoritism in the traditional  press than people think but I think this idea of   of constantly yeah you know slamming the press  is destructive its destructive of we we need a   vigilant press believe me the checks and balances  will the press are important to the checks and   balances in this country the secret of our success  there's a significant degree and our resilience   has been our Constitution and our traditions  built around the Constitution the unwritten laws   have held power and check they've held people  accountable and the White House and if you're   in the party that's controlling the White House it  may be aggravating and irritating as all hell but   when you're out of the White House and the other  party controls White House you sure as heck amount   of press is tough and ask tough questions it's  good it's healthy for democracies so there's a   difference you know between being a watchdog and  being a Rottweiler you know and I think that the   issue for those of us who privileged enough to  speak on television or you know to have a voice   in our democracy the issue for us right now is  to maintain more balance than to maintain respect   for people of alternative perspectives to realize  that basically right now there are two narratives   about the Trump administration that are competing  with each other one narrative that you hear a lot   about here in places like it on the west coast  California and Aragon in Washington yeah and   you certainly hear a lot about in the Northeast  where I live the narrative is this man is totally   unsuited for the presidency he's a narcissist  he's mean he's a bully that massages he lies   like crazy he has no respect for the institutions  of government all the things that could add up to   terrible president terrible president that's  one narrative there is a competing narrative   that we ought to pay more attention to that's  coming from the other side and says yes he is   all those things but look at the results look at  the results and this is a view you find not only   among Trump baseline voters but you find it a lot  in the business community the people who say you   look good look what he did he he promised he'd go  he would reform taxes to bring our tax rates down   he has done that he promised he would deregulate  and whether you like it or dislike it I hate some   of the deregulation say an endangered species  kind of stuff that's coming around now whether   you you but that's what he promised and for a lot  of groups he's delivering they think that people   think that China did a lot of business people  think China has been unfair its trade practices   it steals our secrets you know it's a it's it's  done all sorts of things to us or unfair he at   least she's done the understand if the Chinese  is he overdoing it yes he's overdoing it but   look at their a lot of people's point of view is  so you look at that you look at the fact he took   on North Korea you know he's actually getting NATO  to pay more and they've been not been paying their   share you know he's finally got them to get off  it you know there some other issues that got that   going like you the invasion of Ukraine but the  fact is from the point of view of his supporters   he's done a lot of things they like and he's  standing up for things and he's standing up to   the establishment now I don't happen to share  a lot of those views but I sure as hell think   we don't need to look upon people who support  trumpets like second-class citizens you know   they have a legitimate grievances in many cases  and they and they what we need to do is to listen   to each other and understand and see if we can  persuade each other by putting down our you know   our hammer and tong and actually having serious  conversations because this that we're tearing   ourselves apart right now yeah we're heading  to it we're we the people are participating   in something of it's not just Trump we the  people bear responsibility as well as citizen strengthen is listening it strikes me that I'm  trying to think of the dynamic that brings about   of so many of the things you're describing join  and when I think back all the way I wasn't alive   but when Roosevelt Marana was on an off note  of optimism and it goes all the way forward   to Kennedy and to even george w bush rode on  compassion obama ran on hope now we're running   on fear fear at grievances grievances resentment  resentment yep yep III don't think there's any   question Trump but he's not alone as running it  has succeeded by by exploiting our grievances   and and exploiting differences all right you  know it is previous presidents have welcomed   for the most part the immigration mm-hmm it's  been something that has been part of they see   it as our strength I went to Ellis Island recently  twelve million people came through Ellis Island up   until from the late 19th century into the early  20th century and people came through only two of   them 2% got turned back mm-hmm and when Franklin  Roosevelt went to speak to the Daughters of the   American Revolution very traditional Daughters of  the American Revolution he opened by saying fellow   immigrants yeah okay because people in those days  realized that we all came on different ships but   now we're seeing the same boat together and it  made a difference and there was there was hope   in immigration and I you know kind of this will  tell you today I mean this is this issue was   tearing this part far more than it should be  the number of people coming in from Mexico is   reversed back yeah this is not a huge problem it  is a political problem that's being because we're   ripping ourselves over over all this these threats  to our well-being when when did you know there are   so many more important problems that that are we  should be facing up to but this immigration and   immigration stuff is what if the alt-right is  running on across Europe you know the fear of   the other the fear of someone's not like you the  fear of someone who has a different skin color   has a different religious background all those  other things that you know that they're they're   running on and I it we need to keep reminding  ourselves of the values that we hold dear and   what has held us together I had the opportunity  privilege really to go yesterday to Muir Woods   I hadn't been there and you see the pictures out  there but and go down that Cathedral of redwoods   that where they had the commemoration in 1945  and May of 1945 FDR died in April and then had   the you of the convenient of the UN organization  which can you know put together the UN Honor in   San Francisco and all the delegates went out to  the muir woods to commemorate Franklin Roosevelt   because he had been such a voice of hope he'd  been he'd represented in him but at the time   when lights were going out all over Europe as it  was said he kept the torch burning for democracy   and for freedom and was beloved not only in this  country but in Europe in ways that we you know   can remember I their they the the writer Isaiah  Berlin Berlin I don't know if you're familiar   with my some people called him Isaiah it was  a wonderful European and a public intellectual   British and he he wrote an essay about FDR that  how much how he had FDR had not just saved America   would help save Europe and saw that we were  shared we had a shared destiny and it's crazy   to drive the Europeans away it is idiotic yeah  the one thing we've had in terms of our power   relationship with against the Chinese or against  the Russians is availment they have all virtually   no friends around the world we have had friends  everywhere there China and Russia are encircled   by our friends and that makes a big difference  in a way the power relationship to the world we   drive these nations away from us and turn them  into our enemies or become unreliable as we are   becoming unreliable in terms of our international  obligations of the things we signed up for then   you're going to find as we are now seeing the  nations in Asia for example have no choice but to   ally themselves more closely with the Chinese and  even the people's around Russia are finding that   their advantages of lining up with it that way  the Russians I mean pay people and Western Europe   people in Diddley are now doing that we need those  friends they they were they were important part of   what have kept us strong does it cost us a few  dollars more sometimes yeah but that's the price   of leadership it's an easy one so secondary so  such a small amount of money for NATO and we're   talking about something fundamental we're talking  about the most successful alliance in history   of the earth that after having two world wars  starting in Europe to have put this alliance in   place and have no more Wars in 70 years what the  hell are we talking about getting rid of NATO you   got to be nuts to to say you want to move where  you do you want to make some adjustment you thank   well this thread that you've started developing  ties into about half of the questions that I have   here so let me try to consolidate half of these  questions into a question which will pick up on   the short read we pulled out of NAFTA we pulled  out of the Paris Accord we pulled out of the   Iranian treaty we pulled out of the TPP and now  we're tacking our traditional alliances such as   the g7 and the NATO and then we had the Helsinki  press conference now could you in some way help us because what that's I'm gonna suggest what that  says is that we are realigning ourselves from a   leader in the world who engages in multilateral  and engagement not only with our allies but with   our competitors and we are seeking to go it alone  and we're creating a leadership vacuum so you   were in hell think he worked backwards whichever  direction you want to go but that was about half   of these questions well the I I think the most  important political question hanging over us is   whether our own democracy will survive and thrive  but that leads into a the larger concern about the   world and what direction the world itself will  take if if we move from a period of what I think   was enlightened leadership after the second world  war was let's remember the a little hit just a   very brief tour of history here after the first  world war we had we imposed a punitive peace on   Germany which was going to leave resentful  and eventually led to after the 20s led to   the rise of Nazism as pushed back against what  they thought that the world had mistreated them   and Hitler played to all those resentments in  those years and the 30s what we saw is not just   in Germany but across much of Europe especially  with the depression we saw one nation after   another say let's make Germany great again let's  make France great again let's make the UK great   again and there was a war against all among all  each country looking for an advantage and that's   how we got into the Terra force of the 1930s that  was smoot-hawley you know there's that drew help   to drive us into the depression and then also  brought that the loss of Democracies and people   all went their separate ways and coming out of  that one of the periods at which we the Americans   were blasted was the wise man who came to were  in Washington that were around Harry Truman and   some of them were Republicans they were not just  Democrats they were it was a pretty bipartisan   but Truman collected around him the wise people  of that age who were very internationalist now   look and you know whether it be a Dean Acheson or  a torch marshal or you or love it or you can go   through Robert Lovett you can go through the list  of people who were around him and it was a mazing   Lee enlightened period of American leadership and  it was from 19th essentially the end of the war   45 onward that here in San Francisco the UN was  born which was a which was they tried to correct   from what the League of Nations the failure of  the League of Nations after the first world war   it was the UN was regarded as a better waiting  much better way to go because it was collective   leadership seen as collective leadership we  helped to form the GATT which was the world   Trading authorization has become the world WTO of  today we were in there with the IMF that you can   go through and Bretton Woods but it was NATO a lot  of institutions we we the Americans took the lead   and setting up those institutions we poured money  into the Marshall Fund we didn't try to sort of   chisel here and sizzle there anything you go  squeeze them here and squeeze me we said you   need help and it was a play for the long-term and  it was strategic we've lost our sense of strategy   among other things but the Americans if this was  the global world that we wanted this will what our   forefathers the saw is a kind of world it would  be preferable and that is one in which nations   cooperated and which there were free markets and  free peoples and that we shared a destiny as a   global world and we increasingly in recent years  have been working with young leaders coming up   from different countries to see themselves not  only as they belonging to that nation but to   see themselves as having global responsibilities  being global citizens we are not we're not able   to solve a lot of the problems of today unless we  work together as Nations the you know if you look   at our individual governments nation by nation  it's been well set but the government's of today   are too are too big to solve the small problems  and they're too small to solve the big problem   and and they have to band together we're not gonna  make it on climate change and if anything is more   imperiled right now as our climate and you can  just just see it day to day now we're not where   Trump has got us so mesmerized we're not watching  what's happening over here on the climate side the   way we should and but but the point is we could  all make progress together and some nations we're   gonna fall behind but you then were there to help  them and that sort of thing and then what what   these the Steve Benton's of the world are trying  to not just disrupt but to demolish that system   of alliances and were set of responsibilities  and global perspective and replace it and going   back to what we had in the 20s and 30s you know  doggy-dog you know our gain is your your loss is   our gain you know a zero-sum game among nations  and we're at the forefront of that right now as   a country which is astonishing given the success  we've had you know the 70 years of peace not only   saved the blood and treasure that we were losing  in two world wars but it made it made us rich you   know we still are we're still doing very well and  by the way it lifted tons and tons of people in   places like China out of poverty so the world has  done a better course now and we're moving in all   sorts of positive directions like the Steven  Pinker has a book out about idea and you know   we're much more of an Enlightenment country than  we think we are in the world is doing a lot better   and by the way there's less violence than there  used to be historically in the world there are   so a lot of big line the big name train a lot  of them are moving in this positive direction   and long become these people who want to tear it  down in this like and we deserve to have a serious   conversation among the American people about the  benefits and the losses and understand that in   any kind of churn people some people get hurt and  we've got to be much better than we've been doing   and looking after the people are getting hurt  people who don't have the education that they   compete for 21st century jobs you know there are  over six million jobs in this country right now   they can't be filled most of them because people  don't have the the applicants don't have the kind   of training they need to fill those jobs well  that's on us what kind of education system will   we produce we've been talking about education  reform for years and we've been making progress   and high school graduation rates but we're not  making a lot of progress we're not moving the   needle on how much people actually know for the  jobs that exist in the 21st century and I will   tell you the anti-globalist you know let's go  back to a dog-eat-dog world or gonna pull the   pillars down if we're not careful and that's  why people have got to be serious about this   is a very vulnerable pivotal time and it could  go either way and I don't think we know I keep   thinking we're gonna wind up doing well and I  keep I'm very hopeful about that but you've got   to be willing to say the dark side could prevail  here and it's a citizen your responsibility is   to take it seriously and to participate not just  vote but participate yeah well there's two places   that dialogue can happen one is in Congress and  the other is in the fall election do you see   these policies actually becoming in the forefront  well I do I think over time yes i think i think   these arguments are going to be settled at the  ballot box mm-hmm and they're gonna be settled   in the midterms they're gonna be settle in the  general election I don't know yeah I mean there   were Democrats as I said before I think our little  overconfident about the midterms the the general   election I think is gonna be one of the most  important my own view is I'm among those meet   2020 2020 yeah the my own view is I'm among those  who believe if the Democrats take back the house   they ought to be very very careful and cautious  about moving with impeachment I thought it was   an outrage when Republicans impeached Bill Clinton  back in the 90s I did not think that what we were   dealing with rose to the level of throwing the  president out of office I was there for Nixon I   thought he needed to go you mean I thought that  was a that once the smoking gun was there and we   knew that he'd been lying from the start I was in  his White House and running the speechwriting team   and research team it was clear he had to go but I  thought but Clinton it was not with with the with   the Trump thing he has so muddy the waters and  so call it caused so much distrust and Muller   and the team around Muller that I worry that  an impeachment process led by Democrats between   2018 and 2020 after the midterms and before the  general election would be it could very well be   a serious mistake good III think the Democrats are  better off trying to settle this to the ballot box   let the American people decide you know what  what who should be the president the next four   years that that seems to me a fair way to resolve  something because look the Democrats are not going   to have the votes let's say they get the house  back and they move ahead with impeachment they   could do that and they could vote impeachment  as Republicans that against Clinton but then it   goes over to the Senate for a trial if you get an  impeachment it's like an indictment and then you   go to trial over in the Senate you need if it  to succeed in the Senate to need two-thirds of   the votes means you need 67 votes Republicans are  going to have 49 50 51 52 after the midterm there   is no way in hell to get from that number doing  pa2 to defining him guilty absent some blockbuster   thing we don't see they're not going to succeed  and and the Republicans will argue it's a coup   it's a silent coup led by Democrats aided and  abetted fake press aided abetted by you know the   college campuses and all those liberals out there  on the college campus and the public intellectuals   have been going after him and this has been their  effort from the beginning is to get him out under   just spurious you know charges now and Muller was  let you know he has all these Democrats in there   working for him and so forth and so on they all  get bunny a Democratic Party the whole things are   set up you can imagine and then we take our polls  and we find out the country's divided fifty-five   a 25 or something like that and where are we we  don't we haven't really fundamentally resolved   it and we need a way to break this and be able to  move on we cannot get it be engaged in trumpism   and it's worrying about Trump you know for the  next six years as a country we after we we've   got to get some things done here too let me try to  squeeze in one more audience question and I want   to go to hope okay okay the question is it ties  into really what we return about about NATO that   we seem to be dis aligning ourselves from our  traditional allies but also aligning ourselves   more closely with authoritarian democracies  or authoritarian governments and I so people   would like you to comment on that and I think the  starting point is the press conference at Helsinki   well I I've never known a president who has been  so strongly drawn to authoritarian leaders we we   have had instance in the past when we were in the  Cold War when we made friends with authoritarian   governments Jean Kirkpatrick you know famously  argued before she became you know went to work   for Reagan that when you're in your room when  you have a hot and you're facing a hostile power   and they could demolish you that is fine to work  with authoritarian because you need that you need   every Ally you can get so we did we did break  bread with the number of countries that were   more authoritarian but since then we have been  promoting democracy we've been actively trying   to promote democracy the National Endowment  for democracy says Ned as it's called I was   very involved in when when the wall went down to  try to bring them to bring democracies to Eastern   Europe as they were liberated and I think for the  most part went reasonably well there's bank back   sliding down and then Hungary and Slovakia but  in Poland but the this this attraction mutual   attraction of strongman I get why a president my  president Trump would be sympathetic or find them   sort of bit like he would find himself in sort of  a home with that we're congenial with them but I   think what what one senses is that he has a he's  increasingly has a great man theory of history and   the world would be better if there were three  or four really strong men from different major   powers the u.s. the USSR or the Russia and China  if those three with occasional help somewhere else   yeah would run the world and that would produce  the more magnanimous world well if you go back   into the classics and go back and read Plutarch  you it's true that there were at Ages when great   mentor operated but we're you live in a very  different world now with democracies and the   voices of the people are extremely important  and the leadership is all about and it's no   longer about great single men that is creasing  Lee about teams and nations we in cooperation   and transparency accountability you know the  kind of values that we now place on leadership to be drawn to these strongmen or Iran or  Putin or is she as much as we need to be   keeping up we really need to understand what's  happening in China and what questions that's   kind of raised over the long term it's a natural  here for a Democratic leader to be as drawn to   our relationship with Stalin people say well the  concerns say well look at look at how we got along   with stuff it's true but it was a very you know  a very short-term deal for the purposes of this   exercise purpose of this war we need each other  but when it's over it's over and we're not going   to march happily arm and arm into the sunset you  know people in stood that the Soviets remained a   serious adversary and boy did they show it as the  iron curtain came slamming down after the end of   the Cold War after the end of the Second World War  and so to think that we are friends with Putin is   so it's so upsetting to the but the the National  Intelligence Committee I mean people who spent   years trying to figure out what this what Russia  is up to under Putin see him as a thug you know   George W Bush famously met when he met Putin came  away and said I looked into his eyes and I could   see the soul of a man but it was Bob gates who  I think was one of the best public servants of   our time as to who was running ahead run to see as  CIA run the intelligence operation became defense   secretary he said I looked in the eyes of Putin  and what I saw was a cold-blooded killer and we   have to remember that we have to remember I don't  have much time we have I go we have enough time   to talk about hope because I've got one of those  yeah I've got one little story to go with it we   can go over a little bit sighs now listen I come  from the patriot country the New England Patriots   are a big deal where I we're where I live and the  owner of New England Patriots is a friend named   Bob Kraft who's been a terrific citizen of Boston  and the New England so shortly the Patriots not a   very good team when he bought them and he shortly  but getting it built the team up and got to the   Super Bowl very quickly and got a Super Bowl ring  and which he was extraordinarily proud of I'm not   sure if you ever seen a Super Bowl ring okay but  they're huge you're gonna be about 320 pounds to   wear one yeah can't get him through so shortly  after Bob Kraft got his first Super Bowl ring   he went with a group of American CEOs on a private  mission to to Russia to essentially for commercial   purposes to introduce more trade one thing in  another and he took his Super Bowl ring with   him and there was a reception the night before  they were supposed to leave got to come back from   Moscow to the US there was a reception with Putin  and Kraft took the ring to the reception and then   he was an old circle of people and he brought the  ring out to show to people started talking putting   said can I see that and it's a craft gives him the  ring but Putin takes ring puts on his finger he's   shining one thing and and putin said you know you  could kill somebody with this ring very strange   coming Kraft said Moe you can kill somebody with a  lot of things I suppose so anybody so they talked   for a while and then the time came essentially  for Putin to get back the ring you know etiquette   says you now get back the ring Putin turned on his  heels and walked away from the group still ring on   and Kraft went over to the to the organizers and  said my ring ring and they said oh don't worry mr.   Kraft we have a breakfast a farewell breakfast in  the morning Larry Putin will be there and you can   get the ring front of that okay so it goes the  breakfast next morning Putin doesn't show does   not show they have to hustle off to the airport  to get an airplane they flying back over the   Atlantic and craft his commiserating he's talking  to a bunch of the CEOs and he tells him the story   so what happened and he forgets that one of the  people in the group is Rupert Murdoch who was   in New York toast yeah and page six which is the  gossip pages yeah of New York next morning Putin   steals Kraft ring and crashes away like he was  embarrassed he said maybe I'll get my ring back   but 11 o'clock that morning he got a craft got a  call from the State Department yeah and I said mr.   Kraft we have a problem and he said you bet your  ass we have a problem and they say and they said   well and press I want my ring I want my ring back  and they said that's not the problem the problem   is page six is getting us into a bit creating a  real brouhaha internationally and it's gonna be   a we're gonna have an incident with the Russians  if we're not careful and noon that day Bob Kraft   felt compelled to issue a statement that said  there's been a terrible misunderstanding and   the interest of friendship with the Russian  people I gave mr. Putin my ring that's where I   ended the controversy but guess what he's never  seen out of the ring since one day you're gonna   think your grandkids to the Kremlin are you  gonna go there and you're gonna see Lenin all   entombed and then you're gonna go next door and  there's gonna be Putin and you're gonna look down   yeah there's gonna be there could be there yeah  the guy is a thug but he's a Patriots fan now so give us some hope well listen I see you know  you going beyond there's a resilience I talked   about with Jon Meacham in his book this is the  soul of America I see a lot of hope and a couple   things one is the younger generation that's coming  and we saw some of that where the Parkland kids   mm-hm so articulate so knowledgeable and one  of the secrets by the way to their successes   I learned I bet was seven of them they came up to  the Cambridge for a visit was that they had great   civics teachers hmm you know we've taken civics  out of the classroom when we do and we really   need Sandra Day O'Connor launched a wonderful  effort after she got off the court to restore   civics but a lot of these younger people I see  come through and there's no better example and   what I particularly find out right now and working  with are the young veterans who are coming back   from Afghanistan and Iraq they remind me so much  that World War two generation that I spoke about   the full of hope for the country they fought  under the same flag they think our politics   now is BS they don't like it there they want to  turn they want to turn the page and there's an   effort now that I've spent a fair amount of time  with to elect and more of that young veterans to   Congress in this time al Republicans as well as  Democrats I'm less interested in the partisanship   angle then and the point if you can elect people  who are more centrist and you know what it's   like to take going to Congress a lot easier than  being in Iraq believe me and they know what it's   like to sacrifice for the country yeah they're  committed to the country and they put that you   know the country way above the partisanship as a  value so I I think we we have over a 200 veterans   young veterans now running for Congress and I'm  involved with three organizations raising money   for them there too as young man named Seth  Moulton who's in comes from North Shore of   Massachusetts as a Democrat there's a young man  named Mike Gallagher who comes from Wisconsin   as a young Republican and they're working  together and they're a really terrific on   that you know Seth couldn't upset victory and and  Massachusetts a long story but the essence of it   is that down right before the general election  the Boston Globe the inside team there is it's   called their their investigative reporter team  ran a story about Seth he was a Democrat saying   we've been trying forever to get mr. moulds  military records and he won't share them with   us but we've been trying to figure out whether  he's been lying to the voters about his service   in Iraq he had he had four tours in Iraq as a  Marine infantry officer and he we still can't   get his records but we did find another source and  we now has them and we see that in fact he has not   been telling the voters of full truth about his  military service he's never told voters he has   two medals for heroism hmm coming out of Iraq I  call says I've been with this young man for 15   years now I said what the heck I didn't I didn't  know why haven't you told the voters and he said   well first of all I'm a Marine and we don't brag  you know that right and secondly my enlisted guys   deserved love this and they didn't get it and  so I don't feel good about talking to it talking   about it it turned out he hadn't even told his  parents he's not alone in the other generation   that's the spirit of the younger generation I  find they are really committed to trying to save   the country and they're they're not putting  themselves first they're putting the country   first so I'm brave I'm very helpful about that  but the other thing I'm very helpful about is   the revolution that's taking place practically  among women and the interest among women and the   commitment among women to participate and get  in the arena and fight for what they believe   is very heartening you know and there's many of  you familiar of heard of Emily's list which is an   organization in New York that works with young  women who running for office you can call them   all these lists if you decide to run for local  you know school board or you want to run for the   City Council anything up to the national level  you can call em Liz list they'll help you raise   money to help you put together a team and so forth  and so on the in the last election cycle in 2016   almost a thousand women called emily's list for  help in this election cycle so far 36,000 women and that gives me hope I believe that if women  are more fully represented and we move toward   that we embrace gender balance as an as a  national priority I think we'll change our   politics I really honestly believe I'd like to  see more of these veterans and I'd love to see   more women come in I think our politics will get  a lot better so don't don't lose hope yeah they   died I think my confidence is shaken but my  hope is not okay so let's just stick together   remember we we've got a lot of resilience  we've got a lot of a lot of we've got a lot   of strengths to fall back on and we're all in  the same ship together thank you thank you David our commonwealth club is officially adjourned then   we thank David Kerr couldn't  and so much thank you very much you

Channel: Commonwealth Club of California

Views: 87,189

Keywords: DAVID GERGEN, CNN, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, Trump, White House adviser, political observers

Id: pVzcZzaJi1U

Length: 69min 43sec (4183 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 26 2018