Climbing Sling Myths

we just bought a bunch of black diamond nylon climbing slings so we can break test a bunch of different configurations that's in an image that fodderous papa gazias oh great to me uh he sent me an image from at inside engineers about the different configurations you can do with slings and the theoretical strengths you would get from them and uh we just want to know if they are correct and if you would whip [Music] [Applause] [Music] hi i'm ryan jinx and this is bobby we like the new shirt and we're here at slack snap lab where we can basically test all the things people have opinions on about climbing gear this image has been floating around and we just recreated it here uh the different configurations you can put a sling and the theoretical strengths you would get have you ever seen in 28 kilonewton sling no we got the most common type that you could get of a nylon sling is a black diamond 22 kilonewton sling and so we put it straight which in this case is 22 kilonewtons you have doubled over which in theory is doubled as much so in this case would be 44. and if you double it before doubling it over the bar you in theory get 4x as much and their image is 112 because it's 4x28 and this situation is 88. this is uh wrapped around but it should be the same string just double this is a girth hitch um where it's inside of itself theoretically it will be half the strength or 11 kilonewtons only i can say it as wrong as i say it the image has all the carabiners which we've took the time to put all the carabiners and the stitching in the same place for continuity this carabiner sits straight as you can see when you double it up like this and in the image it's this way so already the image is wrong where else is the image wrong we'll see this carabiner also um is kind of sitting at a 45 degree angle rather than just straight i assume these are going to be correct it's the girth hitch that may or may not be 50 in the industrial slings or the span sets that we use for slack lining around trees or sometimes rigging high line anchors they have images on the label that have the different configurations and the different strings and when you do girth hitch something like that you do lose quite a bit i imagine this is correct but we will find out but first another thing that's not exactly wrong but it's just a little odd is this shirt it is so funny and uh if somebody can make a meme out of this video clip right here we would appreciate it i would appreciate he's not gonna appreciate it but seriously half a design helps make a bunch of shirts and so we thought this would be funny to uh surprise bobby with go to slackline.com store i think is going to be the thing and it's going to have half the designs all their stuff on it and if you just want the vectors and print your own shirts everything's free all the time you can just download and print your own stuff but if you don't want to go through the hassles of that half a design can hook you up if you have other design ideas besides the super good enough logos that we wear i wear too much of hit me up send me something and we'll put on the website for everybody to enjoy and uh let's hear some opinions about this because we were looking at reddit and it was pretty funny the first comment on there says they're just talking about sling strength right most carabiners are in the 20 to 30 kilonewton range so wouldn't the carabiner be the point of failure in most of those setups yes yes it would the uh carabiners we just tested for another episode broke uh 21 and 23 kilonewtons and this is going to break about 22. so in all the other situations where it's stronger or doubled up or quadrupled up yes the caribbean will break first which is why we're going to use shackles to break these because we're not going to break the slings otherwise and then you're stoked wrote love the name 14 kilonewton seems plenty strong in most applications what situation where that could be a problem now i can't think of one in climbing where you would need more than 14 but it's nice to have some safety margin built into your anchor assuming that this is an anchor and not just an extender for a cam which would break lower than 22 kilonewtons anyways but if you got rub abrasion or it's had uv light for a long period of time and it's degraded the material you kind of want a safety margin there so it's not also just for climbing this could be for lifting applications or high line rigging or a lot of different things outside of climbing that this concept can really help people with probably made that up said my haul bag weighs 14 500 kilograms you sir take too much stuff big volume general rescue rigging systems have a 10 to 1 safety factor and if you're going to have two people on the load you want to have a 20 kilonewton master point the frisky turtle said this guide isn't necessarily about climbing i've seen it a few times in the aerial scene uh 14 kilonewton's spine for one person the girth hitch application but you might have multiple people on an apparatus moving around for your frisky turtle waldenian said oh yes a sling that would hold 11 tons attached to a carabiner that only holds 2.5 carabiner is there for an example but i'm glad people realize that the carabiner is gonna be the weakest point in the system and my favorite comment so far is a reply to the statement that is adequate for 99 of recreational climbing scenarios and his reply was more like 99.999 i have a hard time imagining a scenario where it's possible to generate 14 kilonewtons there was an interesting youtube video where a guy measured forces on a climber belayer and bolt in a variety of gym falls really interesting he did not record a force of more than five kilonewtons if i recall on the bigger fall i got .84 also 2.60 here's that video it's not super helpful when you're trying to research something just to find your own research when you're actually trying to get more information but it was still pretty cool to see that and another comment said this post implies that 14 kilonewtons is unsafe or 50 of the sling strength uh if you're just connecting it to a cam they're right it's not that big of a deal because the cam is probably going to come out or fail before that it is important to understand the concepts of when slings have and double from their original stated strength and that you don't just get 22 killing engines or the equivalent of what four elephants how much is an elephant life african swallow or a european swallow give me one oh yeah an african swallow maybe but not a european swallow that's my point it's important that the 22 kilonewtons or half of one african bush elephant is what it's rated for but it can change depending on how you use it it's just super important to understand your gear which is what we're all about here let's go understand it by breaking some stuff what's 4 times 29 a law smells like burnt breaks are we sure nothing's on fire she's warm interesting well let's do another one [Music] okay here's our slime again broken the stitching again at substantially higher than it's rated for which means we're going to have to use some multiplication [Music] that's warm like every time and we have our two to one so we have our hydraulic and then it comes through here and we have a whole video on how to build a brake test machine what do you think about that it's about double of what we're getting 44 we were expecting oh quite a bit more and it broke uh did not break in the stitching this time okay where it did break last time which shows the bend radius wasn't really having an effect [Music] that tied itself into a knot so that's pretty neat oh it did not break in the stitching stitching looks okay i think that's probably where it's pinching the bar [Music] 43.90 is less than double because i think it's tearing the edge oh look at that spinning okay okay so should we wrap it twice instead of three times yeah let's try that and see if if we're not getting a compromise result there yeah because it's you like the elevator music this comes with [Music] 47.76 is a better number because the theory is 44 but we got 56 when we just did the single wrap right yeah yeah it was 56 so it's an interesting thing so it broke more normal did not shred the edge and so now we've tested straight basket wrapped a couple times i guess we're gonna have to try that one now that's gonna be really hard with this machine we're gonna see if we can do it with our two to one probably not though [Music] look at that that's not 88 what happened something bobby pointed out is you have smooth here and then it's like melted here and then it's smooth and then melted and smooth and and this edge is all messed up so that could have been from when it broke that could have just been from the compression of itself put in the comments below what you think so the webbing wrapped around itself is probably creating its own friction yeah it might be um compressing itself and cutting itself eventually like forcing it into the bar huh i'm so glad that's not a hundred and like thirty because our total one is not designed for that um let's do it one more time and see if we got get the same result so we did double double again let me show you before we break it that that's kind of the condition of it in here it didn't have too much edge wear uh but just want to show you how it is in this thing so you can tell us why you think this is breaking lower than four times the mbs or way less than four times what we've been getting 82.82 is not 88 or over 100 which is what we were afraid we were gonna get because in here this says 112 which is four times this so huh so this broke clean even though we have some edge damage but that doesn't seem to be the cause of it bobby's favorite part is that nut spinning [Music] i think that shirt is funny so if you double it up and then basket it around it's plenty strong enough yes it's less than four times as much so now the biggest thing that was discussed is whether or not 14 is enough and we're going to find out if we even get 14 is 11 kilonewtons enough so we're gonna find out put in the comments below if you think it's enough even though you're not gonna put 11 kilonewtons on any climbing situation more than likely is it still enough do you want a safety ratio if it's stronger than a cam is it okay for your anchor to be only that strong so put in your comments below that let's break it [Music] wait what is that hold on that's full strength yeah that exclamation mark is not valid it's not valid with nylon dyneema loses a lot of strength yes have we tested a straight girth hitch in dyneema uh-huh i've got some in the car probably [Music] still above full strength wow and this is nylon which is a little bit more forgiving with knots because it stretches whereas dyneema does not like to bend so let's test a dyneema sling in a girth hitch that's pretty high considering this is anywhere between brand new and severely used being used being dyneema and being in a girth hitch should have been breaking this is a 22 kilonewton mbs by the way yeah we've broken used ones before and 15 kilonewtons is not unreasonable oh can i do the where the videos are yeah watch it in this video here or this one all i want to say is that this is wrong this is not 4x and this is not half there are too many variables for theoretical science to be right bobby thought it was in selfie mode but nope that's just an awesome shirt if you want this shirt buying t-shirts does not support this channel that costs too much to print them but we really want the stoke to be shared out there if you want to print your own the vectors are free all the books are free everything's free that we do everything is through donations bobby just donated that sling and you guys have been donating money thank you uh it's the only reason we have this thing going anything you donate goes back into this channel as you can see the drop tower is getting built while i go to moab and do some secret stuff also on the store section of the website we're gonna have discounts and affiliate links that do help me personally out so i can spend my entire day doing this and not feel so guilty about it it is super interesting that when you actually apply some theoretical math that it doesn't always do what it's supposed to because we actually had a dyneema sling that we 4xed basically and it was more than 4x vmbs that was very very interesting you can see that in this video here the problem with theoretical math is there's variables in life and we love variables we love throwing variables into the system and the drop tower is going to help throw some more variables into it when we do the drop tower so when they try to create standards they try to replicate exactly what they do across all products which is great uh but if we actually want to know just kind of how things work in real life and just the way you would actually use this stuff it's pretty nice to have a slack snap machine make sure you hit that subscribe button because 80 of you guys who made it to the end of this video are not subscribed it's not a commitment it's just a red button liking the video helps but sharing it with a friend helps even more maybe learn to stay after the jingle because we might put one more interesting break tests after it thanks for watching cheers so here's one more test where we do the girth hitch directly to a climbing hanger because i have personally done this before to make myself some more clipping points while being able to still put a carabiner in there and bobby has seen this before and uh what have you thought of it man those guys were dumb we have the two schools of thought sitting here in this room and i think the hanger even has a chance of breaking because we're pulling it the way it's not really designed to be pulled i just really want the sharp edge to be point on that uh so something to point out these are the fix hangers um the older style which have some of the sharper edges in hangers that you'll see out there so but they're a very common hanger that's not an unrealistic hanger to see i'll buy lunch at the sling brakes if you buy lunch if the hanger breaks yep deal [Music] looks like i'm buying lunch 9.5 that's super good enough in my book for static statically holding specific things like bags yeah i think if it gets loaded and unloaded and unloaded you're eventually going to damage your sling even at like one or two kilonewtons would be my guess but you're compromising that by almost you're getting a quarter of the strength of the sling by doing that this is not an endorsement to use this method but put in the comments below what you think goodbye for real [Music] god [Music] god [Music] go [Music] god [Music] you

Channel: HowNOT2

Views: 338,203

Rating: 4.8848524 out of 5

Keywords: Highline, highlining, highlines, slackline, slacklining, slacklines, ryan jenks, how not to highline, hownottohighline, highliner, slackliner, tutorial, how to, rope, webbing, weblocks, rigging, rig, balance community, extreme, SlackSnap, Dynamometer, slow motion, break test, bolt buster, boltbuster, break tests, stunts, world record, slo mo, Slacktivity, climbing, science, mythbusters, carabiner, daredevil, rope swing, rope jump, jackass, alex honnold, big wall, gear, climb, rappel, spacenet, cams, anchors

Id: AsketX8wO9I

Length: 20min 11sec (1211 seconds)

Published: Wed May 19 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/lectures]

I mean, nice to know and I like watching things break. That said, how many anchors in the history of climbing have failed because a sling was overloaded?

[u/toomanypeopleknow]

u/probablymade_thatup youre famous

Also lol at using reddit for research.

[u/Thrusthamster]

I once knew a guy who refused to tie any knots or hitches in the slings in anchors because he didn't want them weakened below the 22 kN rating.

I told him that your pelvis would break in an 11 kN fall (that's what my instructor told me anyway), so if anything happened to us that would bring almost 15 kN of force on the anchor, you're basically talking about if our bodies are still attached to the anchor when rescue comes to collect them.

He started tying knots in his slings after that.

[u/icrasai]

In the history of modern climbing gear have there been any cases of accidents caused by the failure of a sling which passed a visual inspection and was not cut by a sharp edge?

[u/netsrak]

You can skip to 7:30 if you just want to see the tests.

The video is really cool. Have you guys done a similar test with Beal's Dynamic Sling?

[u/Altiloquent]

The funny thing is you said you haven't seen a 28kN sling but apparently the average failing load is about 28kN. I wonder how they define MBS. Presumably some number of standard deviations below the mean?

[u/oximoran]

I’m not a mechanical engineer, but it may be worth noting that polymers respond differently to static and dynamic loads. This test is more on the static side, but most climbers’ concern is on the dynamic side.

[u/jalpp]

The shackle rotates unlike most climbing applications for the girth hitch. The position of the girth hitch effects its strength as well as how tightly it cinches down.

Would be interesting to see the effect of this by girth hitching something more stable and with some grip so it cannot rotate.

[u/adeadhead]

Thanks for the content, thanks for posting!

Also, as feedback, I know how clickbait is mandatory for YouTube clicks, but a long descriptive title is going to be the thing you want here.