Churches that Heal | Henry Cloud | Joni Table Talk | Joni Lamb

so why does it seem that more and more people are starting to struggle with mental health problems and illnesses and how can the church become the place of healing and refuge god intended it to be well today's special guest is here to answer these questions and share key biblical truths that will transform lives churches and communities but first joining me around the table is my daughter rachel lamb brown how are you i'm good it's always good having you oh thank you glad to be here and you know i mean don't you think it's important that we talk about emotional mental issues it's almost like it's been a taboo subject in the church it's been so taboo and i'm so glad we're talking about it because this past year and even the year before i mean we've seen pastors even take their own lives things you never even imagined that's true happening within the four walls of the church people are struggling so heartbreaking anna kendall how are you oh i'm delighted i see you getting empathetic as we talked about i was but i'm excited about this topic this is very dear to my heart yes dorothy newton how are you i am doing great and so honored to be here well it's always an honor to have you cindy murdock how are you great thank you important topic oh my goodness so needed i'm so grateful that we have the guest today so i just encourage people stay tuned because i'm sure there's somebody in your life that's going to need to hear this that's good dr henry cloud welcome to the table it's good to be here is this an intervention or what are you doing what are y'all doing here the reason we called you yeah well your wife actually called yeah i'm afraid she's probably phoning stuff in well you know studies show that one in five americans have been diagnosed with a mental health condition can you believe that one in five but there's no doubt that this number is actually much higher and that many are suffering in silence but the good news is this jesus wants to heal the hurt and trauma that is causing so much emotional turmoil in people's lives it all starts by carefully examining and following the biblical principles god has laid out for us in the word of god so dr cloud can we start back at the beginning and talk a little bit about your personal testimony how you came to know the lord and how actually the lord opened the door to doing what you're doing today yeah i was coming along in college like any other you know college kid and bad things happened i hit the pavement and got really really depressed and i i just couldn't i couldn't get out of it and i think that's what a lot of people feel when they start to get depressed or you know something like that everything that's always worked didn't work and i was in my room one day and i was thinking about life and how you know i was depressed i couldn't get undepressed i i had gone to school been recruited to to play sports and had an injury and had to quit and wasn't playing well and that was over i had broken up with a girlfriend and i'm sitting in my dorm room one day and i'm going how does how does how do you make all this stuff work yeah and i saw my bible up on the shelf that i hadn't read since i'd gone to school and it kind of like it was sort of like jumped out at me and i said well you know and i pulled it and i opened it up and there was this verse randomly when i opened it that said seek first the kingdom of god in his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you as well yes and it spoke to me because i thought women all these things that i'm worried about i should go to god first what is he so i left my dorm room walked across campus went into an empty chapel and asked i don't know if you're there but if you are i need help that's the perfect prayer by the way do you know how many people i've interviewed over the last 30 years that they just call out i mean for people watching today you say i'm in such such a mess there's just something about saying okay god are are you there can you help me and i always tell people the onus is on god to reveal himself he is big enough to do that when we pray a sincere not only that he says you're not looking for me anyway nobody looks for me he's got to come look for us yeah and that's what i say to people sometimes that worry about is god hear me that the scripture plainly says if you are looking for him he has sparked that looking so the very fact that you want to connect with god says that he wants to connect with you that's the proof and that's why you know you won't be rejected and that's where even people watching the holy spirit has kind of opened up your heart for the first time really to receive truth concerning god wanting to be a part of your life and when when you feel that knocking it's it's that's the time that you've got to be willing to pray that prayer and be willing to let him come in so you prayed the prayer well i pray the prayer and you know i watch shows like you guys people get zapped and they fall out and they get healed and you know a light shines down yeah and that didn't happen right i'll never forget when i reached out to god and i felt like well i always kind of believed in god but this time i jumped out of the plane and if the shoot didn't open that was scary and i knew in that moment i'll never forget it was one of the loneliest worst moments of my life because nothing happened and so i kind of said well you know call me i go back to my dorm room and the phone rings and it's the fraternity brother of mine he says i don't know why i thought of you you'd be the last person i would think of but we're starting a bible study and i wanted to invite you hello how did that change your world go into the bible study um well in 10 000 ways but but the first thing that happened was that i actually found out because somebody was teaching it that was a seminary student he uh mr jesse mew and he was from dallas seminary and he really knew what he was talking about and for the first time i've found out a few things one is women these these these christian people aren't stupid they're not crazy because they get painted you know with a character this guy really it knows some stuff secondly the issues that he was taking us through were slowly beginning to heal me and to change me and thirdly that's the first time i discovered the power of a deeply connected community and then i got unto all of the stuff i found out that this bible was not a book of fables that this stuff is really true and there's real scientific archaeological so that was part of it is learning to trust the bible and then slowly god called me out i was an accounting and finance major and he called me out of that to pursue um a career in psychology and i didn't know why aren't you glad he called you out of all those numbers yeah i mean for some people like you are so great at that but for me i would much rather have been called to be a christian psychologist amen so tell us about your new curriculum churches that heal that is a resource kind of platform okay and and it came from a book that i wrote called changes that heal okay and what that that book was about is how spiritual growth and faith resolves our emotional and mental health problems through the scriptures god has god has addressed all these issues but the first thing i want to say about this is this mental health crisis we're in people say the terms if i ask you guys what's mental health you know that's such a like scary term those people that have mental health yeah you know the mental health diagnostic categories are i won't name all of them but how about this one mood disorders anybody ever feel depressed sure low energy or you can't concentrate as well as used to anxiety disorders anybody have stress or worry you can't stop or you know fears things like addictions see these mental or relationship problems these mental health issues that's not for somebody way on the fringes 40 of america you you mentioned the statistic earlier since covin 40 of americans can be diagnosed right now with either stress or anxiety disorder depression or addiction now we're talking about we're talking about people in our families we're talking about maybe the person in the mirror we're hurting right now and that shows that the ability of course you're there in california not being able to go to church and gather together not small groups or uh quarantining even just wearing a mask like you know how your phone recognizes your phone can't recognize you when you've got your mask on and you can't see people smile people liked me better with the mask i don't know what that was i also think people's job's changing i mean there's been so many major transition people moving their careers changing trying to work from home finding so much identity and what they do instead of who they are and getting together and and so what happened with all of that surge you're talking about the churches that heal where it came from is we were getting tons of calls from churches with two two problems one was so many people in our church community are hurting how do we help and so i wanted to design a program that would be plug and play for a church to be able to address all the mental health the hurt the pain the second set of questions was about the pastors yeah and the people in the ministry and the staff and so churches at heal is a kind of a it's all of that in the box you go online and you log in a church can can get videos i think so there's training videos for pastors in the set but there's also a staff a literal staff retreat we took the staff of a church pastors and their spouses into a retreat setting and i walk through the issues and there's materials to help them because pastors and and people in the ministry have have certain pressures and and strains and a lot of people don't have it so there's that section then there's a public seminar that we filmed in florida that they can play on the big screen to the whole community and then there's individual and small group paths for people to address these issues of getting well from depression anxiety addictions and all that so you talk about the uh parable of the barren fig tree yeah how does that relate to us today it's an incredible incredible parable that i think so relates to it shows us how god does what he does it's in luke 13 and it says jesus told the spiral that there was a certain fig tree planted in a vineyard that wasn't bearing fruit and the vineyard owner comes and looks at it and says for three years i've come looking for fruit on this tree and i haven't found any why does it even use up the soil cut it down then the vineyard owner steps in and says wait a minute sir don't cut it down let me do three things let me dig around and fertilize dig around the roots fertilize and give it another year and then if it doesn't produce fruit and some more water that's part of it it's getting some of that so if you think about that parable let's just let's look at it from an individual's perspective we're all supposed to be bearing fruit right but what about if for three years for five years sometimes people i've been trying planted in the vineyard i'm going to church and all this time like i'm still this habit pattern doesn't change or i'm still depressed or i'm stuck or the trauma i'm still having flashbacks or i can't trust or relationship and for three years i ought to be better than that right so cut me down see that's that's the law inside of all of us that the the legal response to human imperfection is judgment and people judge themselves for how they're hurting yeah and they judge each other the church sometimes judges people for not being spiritual enough where you lost your walk or didn't grab your blessing or something's wrong yeah and we get cut down and and that's where people sometimes say i ought to be better i can't be better i'm a second-rate christian or i'm a second-rate human what's wrong with you your sibling came from the same family and they you know all this judgment well then the advocate steps in and that's jesus and what's the first thing he does is he says wait sir speaking to the judge wait a minute he says no to the judgment i didn't come to judge he said i didn't come to condemn i came to seek and to save that which was lost he says stop the judgment there is no condemnation for those who are in him so stop judging but we're going to do three things that haven't been done we're gonna dig around and what does that mean well sometimes these hurts these wounds are below the surface it's not even it's not even about what's on top but it's what's way below and you've got to dig deep to get that jesus said to this pharisees on the outside you look great but inside is all this stuff so there's woundedness there's trauma there's loss sometimes digging around you know you you buy a piece of electronic equipment it's not working you dig around you open it up they didn't install the whatever at the factory some people are coming to adult life and they just didn't have stuff installed at the factory what is the digging around process practically look like for the person that's at home saying i'm stuck in this pain and frustration how do i how do i dig around yeah well first of all you don't do it yourself i just had spine surgery and i didn't do it yeah okay we're gonna somebody knows what they're doing have the digging around so you go to someone well you go to someone now what needs to be present well what needs to be present is the level of ability and skill and experience with what you're dealing with is appropriate sometimes people need to to get out of debt they need to sit down with somebody who can say well you've never done a budget let me show you sometimes they might need a cpa just depends on where they are right when i went to that bible study originally in college they started to dig around okay now what happened was they started to dig around and there were some walls that they hit and where and and i actually went from there that's when i first went to see a counselor who could do a little you know you go to your gym then you go to the specialist so the digging around we've got to find out what's causing you're not depressed for no reason what is exactly what's the root yes or what's missing or what's broken you know first thessalonians 5 says you heal the brokenhearted help the weak confront the unruly but be patient with everybody we don't confront the brokerage and you don't you know condemn the broken and you don't condemn the brokers you don't judge the people and you don't be compassionate to the unruly they say sit your butt down the chair and stop that you know so we all need different stuff so we got to dig around find the problem secondly he said let me fertilize it now what does fertilizer do that's grace yeah see the first we dig around and find the truth grace is a lot of christians think grace is god unconditionally accepts me that's not grace that's a manifestation of grace grace is unmerited favor is god giving us something that we can't produce when a mother gives milk to a baby that's grace first peter 4 says when we love each other and use our gifts with each other you are administering the grace of god in its various forms so some people that are broken they've never been graced in other words to heal a broken heart you've got to have support you've got to have empathy you got to have care all the one anothers that are in the new testament so when they sit down to answer your question in some setting and they're going to get stuff given to them fertilizer emotional support but also some structuring some modeling some skills building all of that and like you do truth from the word of god every answer to every question every answer every question i was sitting on a plane one time and the last thing you want to do on a plane is tell somebody you're a psychologist because they all start coming around maybe you've got some stories at least at least in an office you can say well it's our time for today you know five hours right yeah and you and you're one of those people like that prayed that prayer like i have before too okay lord i just want to close by the rest i can tell you how to end it you don't tell them you're a psychologist i write books about jesus you want to talk and they put up their places but this lady was sitting there and for some reason i said i'm a psychologist she goes oh i got to talk to you i said what what she goes my boyfriend i got to talk about my boyfriend so what's your she goes she goes well well you know we just broke up and i'm so depressed and i'm so lonely and i don't want to go back because i go back every time we get and then we have the same problem over again and then i have to leave him and then i get depressed and i go back and i said why do you leave him she says his anger i just can't deal with his anger and i said what happened she said he just gets so angry and i i just had and then i missed it i said when does he get angry she says when i don't do whatever he wants or don't give in to whatever and and and she said i know how to make him not angry i mean i can just not speak up or anything and and then he's not but then i can't live that way i said well you know there's an old saying if you rescue an angry man you're only going to have to do it again tomorrow um she goes say that again i said if you rescue an angry man today's language should be enabled you only have to do it again tomorrow right she said that is exactly right that's what i'm doing where did you get that i said it's in the bible proverbs 19 19. wow she goes that's in the bible i said yeah pick it up read it sometime now i say that to say there are only and this is what churches that heal does there are only 86 412 billion specific commandments and processes that god gives us that if you go through any good therapeutic process you're going to see you're going to see those things enacted but god has given them to us in his word and so if we're digging around and we're finding what's happening and we're fertilizing and we're giving people what they didn't get that builds them up and makes them strong what you're doing is you're you're building the immune system of humans we were never meant to not be resilient and if we're having through spiritual growth and strengthening if we're having our immune system built then and and then what did he say give it another year see there's some seed this is going to be done in a two day retreat with yourself yeah so you said okay you heard him talk about dick for truth fertilize with grace and truth give it another year and then invest and give it time because a lot of times it can't happen overnight i mean there have been people that have been supernaturally healed from some kind of illness or absolutely and i believe in that but for the most part it's a process isn't it that's what you see yeah yeah if you go to i mean throughout the it's so oh it drives me crazy you'll you'll hear some christian formulas that don't include process that's true i i'll give you an example you know there are people walking around that have unresolved trauma they have they've been molested they've been abandoned they've been abused whatever that's like they're walking around with this this pus underneath the surface system the whole system and they'll sometimes run into a christian and the christian will say well you know what the bible says leave the past behind right well wait a minute the verse says where paul says leaving what he's talking about is how he used to achieve righteousness through works and now he's gonna do it by faith so i'm leaving that behind and by the way he just spent a whole chapter processing it yes yeah but when you say healed the brokenhearted that broken heart didn't happen that moment it's happened sometime in the past it might have been yesterday it might have been five years ago it might be all of this stuff that has got to be healed is the bible has told us how to do this and if it's not a that's a healing is always a process i mean there's instantaneous supernatural healing but and then the other thing is when you go through the new testament there's verse upon verse upon verse those who he he is perfecting or making mature complete this is what the book of hebrews says he's perfecting those he's already made perfect we've been declared righteous but then we've got to live in and go possess that land joshua yes verse 2 peter 1 if these qualities exist in you and are increasing over time there's a process of maturity and we've got to come alongside broken that's so good people and we've got to walk over time and they can be healed but you think you're going to send them home with a formula and they give up on god yeah that's so important i know one of the things you said we only have minutes left but three ways that most people deal with pain and all of these by the way are unhealthy deny the bad deny the good attack and judge why is that the wrong way to deal with the pain well think about this when adam and eve went into pain they lost relationship with god they lost a relationship with each other first thing they did was they went in to deny on judgments yeah they tried to deny it by covering with the fig leaf yeah okay but they felt ashamed they felt judged it went bad and so the bible says that basically humanity is born under the law un under the the wrath of god in other words once we unplugged from god there's nowhere else to be except in pain and shame right that's all that exists that's what hell will be and so we're there and so the natural human tendency is to operate under the law so if i'm imperfect i'm going to judge my imperfection if you're imperfect in a relationship with me my natural first first move is to judge you because i'm we're all under the law until we're not and he says he's redeemed us from that but the denial and the judgment is the human condition wow so quickly just recap for people who are watching who would like to deal with some of the issues we're talking about what can they do as far as information you have available well the first thing you do is you can go to churches at heald.com and just just check out the materials you know send them to your pastor you can get them as an individual but but what i want would want to say to people is very very very first thing is do what i did that day in that church you don't have to be anywhere to do what i did you just got to reach out and say god i need you and i need you and i'll do what you tell me just please come help me okay so good and then go somewhere yes talk to somebody but don't talk to an idiot talk somebody bring something to the party yes my surgeon came first of all it didn't infect me with his own germs he scrubbed first so he was healthy yeah and then he actually read a few books about how to do that yeah and i mean it's important to find a church and just pray and the lord can lead you to a good healthy bible-believing church and then like dr cloud said um you know talk to someone someone that you can trust someone that you know has your best interest at heart and do you need counseling look at that as well get into the word of god and pray and listen to worship music and spend time with god and i'm just telling you everything will change for you in a good way and it like he said you know it may not be overnight but it's a process where god has been working on you and you know what you've heard today is something the lord wanted you to hear so just pray that prayer and say god i need you help me i promise you he'll show up well we are out of time but i know that depression anxiety burnout addictions this is not god's portion for you so just like you heard dr cloud surrender your struggles to the lord ask him to guide you on the journey towards healing i promise you it's going to be worth it and that jesus will be with you every step of the way one of the scriptures i read when i was a teenager going through something some life issue that i thought was big that really wasn't that big when i look at it now but he took me to that scripture that where he said i will never leave you i will never forsake you and for whatever reason it was just like so comforting to me at that time in my life the word of god has the ability to do that because i say the word of god is living and breathing it is alive and there are certain scriptures that will bring you life and so that's why it's so important to start in the book of john start in the psalms the proverbs and just allow the holy spirit to speak to your heart well if you're watching and you're struggling with any of the issues we've talked about today one thing you can do is call that toll-free number on the screen we have amazing prayer partners people call from around the world and it's our privilege our honor to pray with you can also go to daystar.com click on prayer submit your prayer requests we pray over all the prayer requests that come in from around the world i want to thank dr henry cloud for joining us at the table to learn more about this amazing program and how you can implement it in your church or even go through it personally be sure to visit churches that heal.com as always remember to join the conversation by leaving us a comment on facebook instagram or twitter we love hearing from you thank you so much for watching thank you dr cloud thank you ladies we love you be encouraged today i hope you're encouraged and you're on a road where you are really going to penetrate something that you've never done before and that is a real relationship with the living god we love you we'll see you next time bye bye for today

Channel: The Way Of Life Church

Views: 7,746

Rating: 4.9859648 out of 5

Keywords: the way of life church, groeschel, lifechurch, life.churchtv, church, god's word, sermon, Christian, bible, God, Joni Lamp, Joni Table Talk, Daystar, Henry Cloud, Henry, Churches that Heal, Churches, Heal

Id: XHYVTZYl3Yc

Length: 28min 10sec (1690 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 30 2021