Christopher Hitchens on Bill Clinton - "No One Left To Lie To"

we welcome him back Christopher Hitchens Vanity Fair good morning morning thanks for being with us and the author of this book no one left to lie to you talk about it inside the book how'd you come up with this title there's a guy was a guy there is a guy good man called Dave shippers David shippers who was um he's a Chicago Democrat rather of the old school uh prosecutor who was hired by Henry Hyde to be the chief counsel for the house Judiciary Committee and in his sum speech closing speech to the to the impeachment debate before the committee he said look the president has now lied in a civil deposition he's lied to a grand jury he's lied to all his cabinet he's lied to all his colleagues to his family to the American people blah there's no one left to light you and I was watching this I had I had an earlier title in mind for the book it was even in the catalog already to the Publishers were Furious when having seen this I was watching it at Miami airport on Airport TV I thought that's got to be the title it's perfect what was the original title was going to be um ask not tell not why did you and your publisher select this picture for the cover I had no idea till I sat down with the design people how many pictures there were of Clinton looking both smug and wicked and mendacious all at the same time but that is almost the perfect one and there's also a hint of Triumph here in this one as if he really does feel I think that's everybody I don't think there can be anyone left Elijah and I but my book is addressed to all the people who wanted to be lied to and who still do so in a way he wins again until I can turn the tie when I say the name Sydney Blumenthal what comes to mind old friend of mine um unfortunately also an old friend of Mr Clinton's and great admirer of and worker for and alas um as he said to the Senate U when in his testimony um one of those who was lied to I mean he realizes now that Mr Clinton told him a full story about Monica Lewinsky and other matters and let him which shows what kind of a friend Mr Clinton is let him go into the grand jury and re retell this false and defamatory story um the grand jury was me and I was prepared to say as much uh when asked by the house Judiciary Committee and rather to my surprise because um Sydney had had denied telling anyone else they became a huge Story I mean for there was a weekl long flap which rather I thought rather distracted attention from um from the main story which was that the president had authored a effectively um a slander against U former Comfort woman of his for whom he had no further use that's the kind of guy he is what he quite often does and had it circulated in such a way I thought as to um constitute an obstruction of justice because it was a threat to her as well as a as well as as a stand offer I can't find the quote in here but in in the conversation that you had with Sydney Blum been reading it closely I I have read it actually but but and I'm going to paraphrase you you allude to the fact that Sydney blumthal said we're going to take care of oneita bradrick that's not exactly what you wrote but can you explain what Happ was it was actually Kathleen Willie Kathleen Willie I'm sorry Willie will I know it's hard to keep all these female victims in perspective isn't it I think I I can I can now tell them apart but it's it's an effort um Kathleen Willie the week before I had my lunch with Sydney Kathleen Willie had gone on 60 Minutes to say that she had been the recipient of unwelcome attentions to the president I thought she looked like she was telling the truth I I have heard since that she's been subjected to various kinds of intimidation from of a of a sort of rather mysterious kind um about it um I I brought it up with Sor came up with the lunch and I remember he he said that well her numbers are high now you know the the polls had found people thinking she was credible but they'll be down by the end of the week and what had happened was I didn't like the tone of it you know so that we'll you we'll soon fix her kind of thing but the following day I think it was the White House found and released all the private memos between her and the president some of them quite affectionate you know and admiring she is she is or was a very clintonite Democrat um and what angered me about that they found those and put them out in a day more or less those had been subpoena not not long before by the Paula Jones lawyers those same memos and they wanted any any and all paper contact between the president and Miss willly White House sorry we just can't seem to find them we just can't find them you can subp us all you want we can't put our hands on the papers once they needed to reply to 60 Minutes there they found the papers in short order and that struck me as so typical of Theo of this white house it's a 10th rate and nasty and um underhand like everything about about this President and his tactics Midway through the book you point out first of all that the president had precisely two cabinet meetings in 1998 yeah count them two one in January to lie to the cabinet and one in August to tell them he was going to have to tell some bit of the truth after all and sorry about that gu he didn't really say sorry as a matter of fact um he he he defended himself in know the usual bombastic way when Donna Shala said well you know you could get the impression Mr President that you'd kind of put your yourself ahead of you know all other considerations your friends your policies your all of that you really were thinking only of yourself he he world onor and said well you're the sort of person who would preferred Nixon to Kennedy why did he say that well I think he he'll say anything that was the comment that was overheard afterwards he'll say try anything he's a complete solipsist he's he has um and he's completely without scruple but I think the consequences of the first meeting are the Graver ones because at the end of that meeting whether he whether the cabinet were persuaded by his life or not I don't know in their hearts so to speak but they were induced to go out into the street uh vice president did and the secretary of state did and make complete abject fools of themselves by saying they were absolutely sure he was telling the truth now that's what everyone sees when they see meline orri coming to a negotiation now they see oh well that great there's the woman who who believed the president about mon Linsky and went out and stood outside in the street and said everything's fine nobody resign only one person has resigned from this Administration it wasn't over any of these things and it wasn't someone who'd been humiliated as these people were they've lost they've lost all their pride all their dignity later in this U chapter you say that I've known a number of people who work for him or with him and who have worked with this man they act like cult members while they are still under the spell and talk like ex-cult members as soon as they have broken away yes that's true um George Stephanopoulos George is the one I I know the best yeah it maybe slightly unfair to say that he actually completely like a cult member while he was working there he was he's a relatively straight guy and and rather decent I think but you know he had to often stand up for or defend impossible positions he talks much he he talks much like an ex-cult member now he's left there he he talks like someone who will say this is you know believe it or not trust me I used to believe this this is how I used to think and now I can't imagine how I did but I I don't think it anymore that was what made it familiar to me and let me bring up one another point and then we'll get to calls you talk about smiling encourage well I'm laughing uh let me read this and then I'll have you follow up you talk about David geffin Steven Spielberg of DreamWorks who have contributed close to $400,000 and $236,000 to the clintons of the Democratic Party The Waltons of Walmart $216,000 and Larry and Sheila Lawrence of the hotel delor and their Associated real estates $100,000 of contributions by their companies or their employees to the president or the Democratic party you go on to say that Mr Lawrence later achieved a Brie brief celebrity by his Triple Crown of buying lying and dying yeah explain well he and his wife gave all this money and therefore they got into the Lincoln bedroom because as you know this President let put like this maybe because I'm an immigrant to this country I'm I perhaps I'm too easily overcome with reverence but it seems to me one of the things about clintonism is that it's a it's profaned it's blasphemed by turning the Oval Office into a sort of cheap massage parlor the Lincoln bedroom into a sort of cheap motel for fat cats and Arlington Cemetery into something that can be franchised for fundraising Mr Lawrence um invented a war record for himself so that he could so that he could along with a hefty donation have himself buried in Arlington Cemetery and he and his wife appointed to diplomatic positions and so on when it was all discovered that this had been a fraud um and that the money shouldn't really been handed over anyway he had to be dug up out of Arington cemetry and reburied now that would get me down if uh if I was some a patriotic American which I can't claim to be um and I was appalled and rather astonished that it didn't get people down that that things that we're supposed to teach the children about now the Lincoln bedroom Mr Lincoln's bedroom For Heaven's Sake used as a as a Mot the Oval Office used as a massage pilot and irton cemeter used as a dump for lying F cat fundraisers this this is appalling isn't it and everyone said but these are private matters leave the guy alone well my impression is that now that it's over and he's walked um just literally walked got clean away with everything and not apologized and so that he doesn't regard impeachment as a disgrace inter that now people are turning away from him and uh for reasons they can't quite explain I I have a lot of people come up to me now and say you know I didn't agree with you about this or I don't agree with you about that but when he comes on the TV now I can't watch it anymore I'm really hoping that that's going to become General and if he if he can't be thrown out of office at least people will turn their backs on him the book is called no one left to lie to Our Guest is Christopher Hitchens delmare California on our conservative line good morning good morning I continue to be very troubled by the so-called trial that took place in the Senate um I wonder if you can reveal anything to me why a Republican Senate would was so accommodating to the other side I heard uh M Mr shippers who I thought should have really done the trial say that Joseph Biden a Democrat who from Robert Boran vetoed him uh that why did Trent lot allow this trial really not to take place even the Republican senators from Maine didn't want Witnesses live Witnesses I mean it was what 7 hours of videotape testimony of a president who I believe they all know was unfit to be there and we probably wouldn't have this war if they had convicted him thanks caller um it's I can on the weekend after there was this row about my testimony to the house Judiciary Committee I did get a call at home as I've been told I might from a from a senator senior Democrat a guy I actually quite admire I can't give his name alas but um who said that he after what I'd said and other things that he' learned he was now determined that he would vote to convict on certainly on the count of obstruction of justice I was I was impressed and then he began to talk about how well maybe the thing's been presented in two par is and a way and I remember thinking I wonder if he really is going to vote of course that day to the lasting Shame of the democratic party he voted not not one single Democratic senator voted to to to convict on the evidence which was quite clearly Preposterous and that was the most noticeable thing but the lady questioner is quite right to say that there wasn't uh mysterious lack of enthusiasm on the Republican side I would it would take a long time to explain all the reasons I think why that's true but in effect there had been a Clinton Gingrich co-president until quite recently the Republican Party had no real political quarrel with the president the president after all was enacting most of their program and in the middle indeed of the of the trial itself he in step that I think among other things constitutes vote buying the potential jury announced that yes after all he is going to not just test but build the Star Wars uh the SDI system the most expensive and destabilizing and dangerous and wasteful boondoggle in military in political in indeed in political and economic history so they were aware of that they had the president where they wanted him they say okay you enact our agenda we might go easy on you the second thing was that the Republican Party knows how to watch Wall Street on the opinion polls as well as anybody else does perhaps a little better certainly no worse and it seemed to be the ruling of Wall Street and the Dow Jones and the opinion PS that that impeachment was a waste of time or or diversion or at best and at a meeting in um Palm Beach of I think it's called the Golden Eagles or some such it's the Republican backers of what sometimes said it called the donor Community which always makes me not they the party had been told pretty much you know who cares about whether there's a crook as president there are worse things than a crook at president if if the guy knows you know what policies to pursue um get with the program this I think TR lot was capable of picking up that signal this quote above the uh title of the book well traveled hyper educated pissed off always funny is that how you describe yourself the quote we should point out is from voice literary supplement some very kind critic in Voice who said that um wouldn't be for me to say um the pissed off bit I can I can say is true um if now I know that which I didn't know till just this moment that you can say pissed off at breakfast time on ceas Boon North Carolina for Christopher hens good morning uh I have a question uh several questions and points I'd like to bring up uh one of the questions uh kind of rhetorical would be uh why is uh Mr Hitchin there wasting all his talents on bashing uh Mother Teresa and Bill Clinton it's a pretty much a foregone conclusion and I saw what's a forone conclusion well well it's it's pretty obvious what with uh what we've got uh we just got to do the best with what we've got and as far as Mother Teresa you know who cares she did a job but I saw you on Fox and uh looks like fox found a mother load of uh all Clinton bashes uh and um it seems as though uh if Fox is going to use you give uh uh give fo 100% uh chis hitching okay and uh one other point is the real reason why um we're in covo is probably because uh the CIA uh didn't support panich and the state department didn't support panich the American millionaire who uh was a uh a true Democrat that's small D okay thanks caller that reminds me that I didn't answer the other lady's question about how how imp peachment might have um averted this war could I just I mean try and comprehend both questions in the same answer I don't believe um no start again in my book I say that I do believe that the president used um military force in a capricious and promiscuous way to save his own skin in Sudan last August the bombings of Kum and of Kell and also later the uh Christmas time or impeachment time bombings of um Baghdad I think I've made that case if if you don't find it convincing I can only say that so far no one has no one has rebutted or attempted to rebut this hypothesis there's a great deal of evidence to show the president on his own initiative used what should have been American military force for entirely private and corrupt purposes related to his own court calendar is the most shocking allegation to be made I think against the president and the the the poing fact that it's true hasn't sunk into people yet because I don't think they can quite take it but they'll have to face it um and of course it's conditioned the responses of other nations to any threat or promise made by the president because they know that at least they can suspect him of this uh which is not a healthy State of Affairs however I think there was going to be a confrontation in Kosovo anyway I don't believe for a moment the president engineered such a thing in this in this matter he it no doubt suits him that he can POS as commander-in-chief while the Cox report on China is coming out and one or two other things such as very believable rape allegations are circulating but I I don't blame him for taking advantage of that I mean almost any politician would and it clearly suits him to do so he's a lousy commander-in-chief as you can see from the progress of the war not one of the things said by him about why it was being fought or have turned out to be true but I don't think it's a Wag the Dog State of Affairs Mr panich I've met he was a Californian is a Californian uh Serb successful businessman and funnily enough old place friend and colleague of Jerry Browns and um there was a time it looked as if he might if there was a fair election in former Yugoslavia he might win and he was opposed to the atrocities in Bosnia and the uh totalitarian character of the mosich regime and yes it is a shame in a way he didn't get more support while he was a live candidate we don't do anything to help the Serbian opposition Christopher Hitchens grew up in South England a graduate of ox Oxford University our next call is from witcha Falls Texas good morning I was there with the president were you that was do at the same time yeah did you remember him did you meet him I remember the house where he lived um because it was the number of draft resistors were there and I was a supporter of the anti-war movement was it bodland College baleo was my college B uh he Mr Clinton was a university college 46 leford Road was where they they used to hang out and I used to go around and help dish out leaflets and that kind of thing the president unfortunately turned out to be not a draft resistor but a draft Dodger which is a quite different thing I think never to be confused those who were there were lot very brave Young Americans in that stage who were prep to take the consequences of opposing the war one of the early signs of Mr Clinton's lousy character was that he wasn't prepared to take those consequences he just wanted to squeeze through and not and avoid the draft which is not a creditable position to take his roommate strobed talbet I remember Talbert I remember iron magaziner I remember quite well I knew him uh just my luck um Robert R strobe Talbert um several one or two others now I think about it K name will come back to me let's get this call from Texas if you think of it go ahead caller thanks for waiting good morning Mr Hitchens uh I think you're about the lowest life you have never liked this President you you've You' never liked him I want I want to make a comment and then I have a question uh you have been from the very beginning on to this you're a Jerry Brown fan and that kind of people it doesn't matter who it is that you don't like you run around the fox you do all these things and you lie y you people like you have made a mint off of this President you write books you have no sources for it you sitting there talking about you knew where he lived well I'd like to see the picture I'd like to see somebody tell me besides people like you I've been watching this and I grew I I I used to live in West Memphis Arkansas by the way so I know a little bit about Arkansas I know a little bit about Paula Jones and I know her ities and I know someone that works for the state who is named Paula so I mean this old crap is a little tiring by now and your books are running out and I hope you don't sell one now about Sydney Bloom andol why why do you want to go and get on to your friends and go on about all this crap you people are just absolutely sickening you you you can't do anything on your own you don't C write real stories you put out gossip and rumors about other people you are sick okay we'll get a response thanks caller um I quite often get asked if if if I've sort of got Clinton on the brain you know and in a way I suppose I have I mean and that is partly because as the lady says I did from the very first time I saw him in New Hampshire I did think there was something revolting about him not something more than a political disagreement in other words I hated his politics and his dishonest y but I thought there was something potentially monstrous about the guy this was because I don't if you remember the case but he when he was in trouble in the polls over Jennifer flows and he's lying about her he went back to Arkansas of which he was still governor and supervised the execution of a mentally disabled in fact a lobotomized black defendant called Ricky R Rector a very cruel and cold and nasty attempt to show that he could be a tough guy and I was appalled by by that and also by The Silence of the Liberals about it and I have yeah it's true I have detested him ever since do you think it may have upset it may it may have made me sick I don't know the book is certainly in my mind an attempt to get him out of my system but I think now I'll have to stick with it until the guy's gone one way or another um which isn't thank heaven that long now as for the mint in case anyone wonders I mean you try it um I hope my Publishers are listening this is published by ver a small house that's the publishing armor of the new after review I haven't I don't think I've had an advance yet and if I told you how much it was you wouldn't believe anyway because you'd think I was lowballing it Mrs Clinton I've met you do you want to say the amount I think it was 5 grand which it has to it has to make that back so this is why I hope people are going to rush out and get it $5,000 to write this book Mrs Mrs Clinton um well I can't understand why people think she's owed a senate seat somehow it seems that after all she's done for us we ought to find her a place in the sen I don't get this at all what has she done for us except be the um self-pitying uh robotic defendant of someone who is a pathological liar almost certainly a rapist and as I show in the book A minor war criminal all she's done is say that it's always someone else's fault that plus I suppose single very nearly single-handedly took the work of many people over many years to build up a consensus on on national health coverage and universal healthcare and just piss it away in a couple of months so that now there's no question in anybody's mind the healthcare situation in the United States is much worse than when the clintons were elected very much worse steeply worse for the just both for the profession and for the patients because of the Takeover of the whole health care business by the HMO racket probably one of the greatest single social disasters of the century I don't see that she gets a senate seat for that do you Fort Walton Beach Florida on our conservative line good morning uh hello Mr Hitchens uh I'm a conservative and I hope I'll be a contrast to your previous caller um sounded pretty conservative to position on uh Mr Clinton even though we're uh have different ideological views uh my comment is I would like to uh ask your opinion or to get your comments on uh the comparisons that have been made to what's going on in Kosovo a lot of people have compared the situation in costavo of what's happened in uh in World War II and Hitler and and also to the beginnings of World War I I think a more appropriate uh comparison would be to what happened in Waco under Janet Reno and the um the massacre of innocent people in in that situation here you had a despotic individual that was uh supposedly it was rumored was conducting atrocities on the people that were under his control and then you had uh the government step in and with their uh Jack Jack booted thugs came in and actually massacred innocent people in an attempt to write the wrong that they were they were attempting to do and my other concern is the lack of response in the country for such a thing in other words there was no there appeared to be no outrage and I'd like you to get your comment on that please well um I don't think there's any comparison at all between Mr Mr Kesh and Mr mosovich um and presumably neither do you I don't know if I don't know whether you intend the analogy to go that far since you appear to think that Mr Mr KES was was um innocent I mean I don't know that that's absolutely true I think the the science that it wasn't a very nice organization to belong to especially if you were a kid uh who hadn't had the option of joining that's usually true of these cult groups anyway doesn't excuse what the Bureau of Alcohol firearms and tobacco did which and as you say it was what a means by which we discovered that there was yet another um armed and dangerous parate force in the country that's entitled to come and kick down your door as if there weren't enough of those already so I'm with you so far but Mr mosovich is is everything that is said of him I mean you don't have to call him Hitler and all that kind of thing but I was in Saro for a while and I've I've been in the region a fair bit and I'm I'm convinced myself that the the charge that he's an aggressor and a racist and and a dictator and a war criminal are all absolutely solidly true I the tragedy for me of the present war is that it's not being fought for the advertised purpose I mean if if the war aims were what we said they were they believed to be namely to get the Kosovo refugees back home and Mr mosovich out of power I would be impressed but it seems to me that can't really be the objective the objective seems more to to boost The credibility another overused word of a of a cumbersome and discredited NATO alliance Westminster Maryland good morning on our moderate line moderate line good morning liberal moderate and conservative I had no idea go ahead please what about extremist where are my friends I I'm an ex- extremist yes from the left but I consider myself a moderate now comparatively speaking I I take Mr Hitchens as being a part of a a great tradition on American television that began I think probably with G vial uh that's too kind but I'll I'll I'll do my best to accept it with Grace I have uh uh a great deal of trouble with the ability of the American people to actually uh sum up and get angry about Kosovo its policy and its effect if you looked at the uh condition of the average Albanian kosovar as they call them uh uh prior to the bombing and now what have they won I mean their world has been lost and I'm afraid that American policy without you know without an exit strategy has no way of getting them back Mr mosovich has an exit strategy though doesn't hear me or rather an exodus strategy and he's had one for a long time and of course everybody knew that he was planning to do this and that's what makes it so disgraceful Mike Kelly did a very good column about this in the Washington Post a little while ago he noticed the um he noticed the Press briefing given by prime minister masimo Delma of Italy the new the new Italian leader who'd been in Washington a couple of weeks before the bombing we' been to see the president because Italy is the Frontline country it's the nearest to Albania that's where the air bases are and that's where the refugees are going to try and head if they can Splash their way across from Bari that's where albanians always try and go so in all those three ways you know Mr D was entitled to ask you know what the real plan was and he said in his briefing said I asked the president what will you do if we bomb and it doesn't change Mon's policy but he does turn on the Albanian Kosovo population civilian population perfectly good question I mean anyone he would have been a fool not to ask it and he told the press that the president looked at him as if he was hearing the question for the first time as if that thought had not occurred to him and he then turned to Sandy berer I'd hate to be in a position where I could only rely on Mr Burger for advice I must say and said well what would we do Sandy in that situation and burer said well I guess we'd just keep on bombing well this is outrageous they then compounded this by saying when the refugees were immediately kicked out in the hundreds of thousands and found on the hillsides of Macedonia and Albania from the president and from The Joint Chiefs and from Mrs alright and Mr Cohen we were told oh don't don't reproach us with that we knew that was going to happen we're not surprised by this well we were expecting it they were expecting it what kind of an admission is that that makes them accomplices in point of fact um we have to hope for their sake that they're lying cuz if they're telling the truth then they would have to go to the ha as well as mosovich and and be charged with complicity and crimes against humanity the reason it's possible they are lying is that if they knew it was coming then why were there no blankets and uh Pampers and food parcels and bottle of water at the frontier I mean if they were expecting this flood of immiserated homeless terrified people they certainly didn't look as if they had made any provision for it and then they said well I tell you what since you have been kicked out and had had your lives wrecked and all that maybe we can have you live on a barbwire encampment we've got in Cuba I mean as the caller just said you know if you didn't laugh you'd have to cry or you'd have to pretend that you hadn't noticed and just get on with your life but the shame of this is unbelievable seems to me unbelievable shame go ahead Silver Spring good morning good morning uh I'm a longtime viewer and uh 67 year old African-American and uh retired Navy veteran of 25 years of a Korean and Vietnam War and uh Mr Hitchins U fascinates me he really gets to the core of a lot of things I voted for Clinton uh twice and I can't stand to watch him on TV um and I hate to say this but as an student of American History I I find him very much American very much represents what this country is to a large degree and I have no doubt in my mind that if he was in mich's place he would be just as ruthless and bloody and uh if he had it in his power to really direct the Armed Forces during his impeachment I think he would have surrounded the capital building and probably rounded up all the Republicans and parade them off somewhere call did you vote for the president in neither of the two elections he said twice twice I'm sorry I missed that said twice twice too many what what what turned the tide for you uh just watching him on TV is facial expressions uh is wiggle woring what do you think of this picture on the cover of Christopher hitch's new book yeah that that that yeah it almost nauseates me and a lot of his facial expressions uh there no doubt that he's a smart man but uh I I don't know uh we'll get a response thanking Americans I guess believe that OJ was guilty too so uh me and my wife go around and round on these various subjects but uh since I'm fully retired I'm a C-SPAN addict and I watch it constantly you know and uh I appreciate getting through to express my humble opinions we're glad to hear from you we'll get uh Christopher hitch's humble response no I I that's it doesn't get any better than that I think we should just let him speak for himself good man I havea South Carolina good morning good morning I hate to disappoint the woman that called earlier but I can't wait to go buy your book I share every thought in your head let me let me ask you you brought up a good point is this now at bookstores oh yes i' fine bookstores everywhere and what about Amazon.com or B online was number 15 on amazon.com's uh list yesterday I was pleased to see and how much is it by the way well I think that depends where you go by it my Publishers are too um either too cheap or too slithery to actually put a price on the cover but places like Barns & Noble I guess discount books I think it'll run you though about um $18 I think that's I must say I think that's rather a lot for such a small book but but if you don't like the president um it'll probably it'll probably be worth it to you and if you do it'll certainly be worth it to you go ahead caller I'm sorry if you do like the president's best $8 you'll ever spend so spend $8 for this well you can probably get it 50 well around I have distressed him from buning and thank you for your book and I looking forward to reading it thank you no question caller just a comment she must have hung up Phoenix Arizona good morning for Christopher Hitchens yes sir good morning good morning I just wanted to uh comment on one of the calls that uh Mr Hitchens received from the the woman and it uh with uh great criticism and I think it is typical of the non-thinking uh liberal segment of the population and I would further opine that uh this country seems to be now run by uh propaganda fear and paranoia and go on well NE I would say next Cleveland Ohio good morning uh as far as what you're stating basically you're only stating your views on all of this anyone else hold I can't hear you cuz I'm do you really have any facts to back anything and secondly I am a Democrat and I do Wonder uh George W bush seems to be leading the pack by 50 some per or whatever it is now he hasn't said a word yet how how could these Republicans back up somebody that hasn't said anything I think this is so stupid when is when is he going to open his mouth thank you thank you caller do you ever notice how people sometimes will say when you've said something yourself they say well that's only your opinion and you think well yeah I mean that's true who else's opinion could it could it possibly be so it's a tick some people do this that's my reply to that as to assertions of fact yes I do the book contains one or two of those I mean the most uh so to speak um damning or horrendous accusation I made against the president which I've made elsewhere and and on in print and on the air that he did Wag the Dog over Kum in August and and Afghanistan in August and Iraq in December I couldn't I wouldn't believe me I'm not ducking your question but um I have put it out in print several times no one has yet come up with a with the argument that disproves the evidence as I lay it out and the timeline as I lay it out the way for example I'll give you one fact that the president wouldn't consult The Joint Chiefs about launching those missiles he kept them out of the decision wouldn't wouldn't talk to the CIA or the FBI as far as possible made it a personal presidential matter of Caprice and thus hit the wrong target because there was no time to find out it was the wrong one um and the reason for the hurry was that M Linsky was due that day to go back to the grand jury things like that do you know how many people um whove been asked to testify before the senate committee on the campaign Finance Scandal which may turn into the greatest Scandal of all time if it turns out to be connected to the Chinese people's Republic's theft of uh nuclear intelligence which I think it is going to prove to be by the way you know how many people of the Clinton fundraising Community were asked to come before that committee and either fled the country became fugitives from Justice or or took refuge in the Fifth Amendment here a fact for you 121 121 people are currently refusing by one means or another to say what they know on the campaign Finance question that's a lot that really is quite a lot of people in fact I think the the political Corruption of the electoral process has has never been as boldly uh practiced as by any Administration as by this one or by any president as by this one I wouldn't exempt even Richard Nixon from that judgment we have a lot of emails let me go through a couple of them one in Tampa Florida G Gloria blankley says the lady insulting Mr Hitchens is no better than the other enablers of this draft dodging president I'm finally hearing the truth about this man another says there is no one I would rather listen to than Christopher Hitchens I disagree with his political views but he is so profoundly aidite the William Buckley of the left that from Jay McCarthy of Marblehead Massachusetts goal and William Buckley to be called both in the same show is this in the first half or are we pass the uh just about 40 minutes in in the first 40 minutes that's pretty good that makes my day either one would have made my day but both really does it thankk you I don't deserve it then we get this from Jerry and Janice your guest is a buffoon ah I was one for the other shoe to drop and there's this your guest a Vanity Fair makes me puke okay no but still they can't take it away from me the the vi and Bly stuff they just can't take it away from me Sur is that all they say there there's more but we're going to get back to calls Worster Massachusetts for Christopher Hitchens good morning good morning Mr Hitchens uh I have a question earlier made the comment about uh President Clinton uh making the comment to Donna Shala about her preferring Nixon over Johnson and I just wanted to ask over Kennedy over Kennedy excuse me I had a question after the impeachment his first press conference Mr Clinton uh told the story about the man falling off the cliff and grabbing onto a branch I wanted to know because you know this Administration does he actually believe this when he says it and believe this when he says it to his cabinet members or is he part of a strategy to infuriate his enemies or infuriate his critics so they'll speak out more against him therefore his poll rating go up more do you have any comment on this well it's a thing you have to ask yourself all the time about Clinton because the you can't you can't make you can you can only make it's like the the what used to be called the crean Paradox the philosopher Zeno came up with saying all crans are all all men from CRE are liars but what if you're told that by someone who is himself from creit um is that statement still true if it's said by someone who's from CRE already the Clinton Paradox is the same you wonder if he's lying even when he suspects he might be telling the truth for example he just on this matter of the impeachment and the trial he said that he had never read the star report he said that he never watched any of his own trial now suppose those statements should be taken at face value I mean I suppose he wanted that he he wanted those statements to be believed why should he want people to believe that he didn't even trouble to read the document that had created all this us and that was the account of all the trouble that he Clinton had put everyone to and isn't it astonishing that he would want us to believe that he wouldn't even watch his own trial by the United States Senate then what was he doing instead of playing golf um having Fern sex we don't know but I mean he wanted us to believe that and but I thought to myself well what does he take us for or what is he really like if he thinks those are clever remarks to make so and he does have a very Lively sense of his own self-interest and you can't say he's not good at manipulating public opinion and public opinion polls but these just seem to me to be giveaways of a personality that's just deeply rotten does he know who you are I don't think so H well I wonder now he might if you had the opportunity I've never met him I've met him I've asked him a question in New Hampshire I've asked him about this this the lynching that he conducted of Ricky Ray Rector but he turned his back on me he wouldn't answer that question if you had the opportunity would you ask him a question in a White House news conference no I don't go to those things I I'm I mean I've got a pass and so on but I've stopped going because it's humiliating like this business tomorrow night at the White House correspondence dinner it's embarrassing as a member of the profession to go to these things now because you're being used as part of the furniture you're you're part of the effects you're part of the the the uh the props the stage set it's degrading to go I think and uh not that the president is in the habit of giving much in the way of press conferences one of the many signs of the the sort of Banana Republic kind of regime that he's been running is that he he won't meet with the Press Mage absolutely has to or unless he can shelter behind or drag in as a prop of some visiting dignitary who's worth 10 of him Al cman writes about the dinner you just alluded to tomorrow night we'll have coverage of the dinner which our coverage gets underway at 9:30 East Coast time Al cman writes Black Tie wires optional Michael isakov is getting the Edgar Allen Poe award from the White House correspondence Association and for a while the president said that he was either not going to show up or or travel somewhere else like Littleton Colorado or an Air Force Base in Europe or sucking up and going he's decided according to alcman to suck it up and go but he will not be on hand for the award ceremony can you explain yeah every year this is terrible event at the Washington Hilton where it's a where the press grovels to the president and the president grovels to the Press it's it's a horrible thing to see the president tries to show he's got a sense of humor the Press tries to show uh tries to prove what's already obviously not true namely that it that it has an adversarial relationship to the presid it's a humiliating evening and lousy food and bad speeches and worst of all cuz the journalistic profession gives itself far too many of these as it is prizes are handed out like party favors and Mike isov who is a very good reporter and has written a very good book has got this prize and I was trying to persuade him last week he came to my book party in Los Angeles that uh he shouldn't go up to be given the prize for the Pres he's got the award that's an honor if you like there's a small check put it in the bank you don't have to go and be part of the stage management of this this appalling liar and jerk um and if it was a corporation uh Newsweek wouldn't let him do it quite rightly I don't know what he had decided but now unfortunately Clinton's decided for him that he's not going to be there to hand him the award so it should have been Michael who said I wouldn't give I wouldn't take it from the president anyway bentur California good morning well hi um Mi Mr Hitchin uh I didn't uh vote for the president uh either time and uh have never been much of a fan of the president but if you compare this President and presidency with the other the previous presidencies and the kinds of things that happened inside those administrations and the kind of foreign policy that they used and the kind of economic policy that they used uh there's you know this one may have this OD style but in the end it's not a whole lot different you know well I can certainly see the force of that point but I I would I'd add one observation though which is part of the motive for my book my book is in a way it's an address to American liberals and American liberalism when Mr Nixon and Mr Reagan and Mr Bush did the sort of things I imagine you have in mind either at home or abroad there was always a section of the population quite a large one in fact in and in the academy as well and on on campus I mean by that and um in my profession and elsewhere who who at least claimed they weren't taken invite and were prepared to oppose it with Mr Clinton however enacting for all practical purposes a Conservative Republican agenda agenda is a word I hate but there's no alternative to it liberals went quiet they went dead they couldn't criticize him in fact they often not just went quiet but they noisily defended him with completely Preposterous and illogical syllogism such as well it's a private matter if he's corrupt um it's his business um it's no concern of ours um Everybody lies they said as if everybody lied in that way um which meant that the the effect there was no political opposition left in the country um except the except the extreme right or some of the extreme right and and the religious right well that that's the situation we've never been in before where the consensus excuse me the consensus is completely bodyguard and absolutely an absolutely corrupt and worthless politician so I thought that was that made it for me more serious and so the book is a repost to all those who tried to carry the guy uh when it was possible to for seen through him Kawaii Hawaii for vanity feris Christopher Hitchens good morning hi uh good morning um I'm a little bit nervous so you know bear with me what time is it there um I actually don't know I I kind of sit up and and watch SE span a lot um what I wanted to to ask Mr Hitchens was um why does he have an opinion as to why is it that that hate is like so is such a strong thing I mean I know I knew him from a long time ago um you know I used to admire him a lot and everything but I I feel like he's getting so consumed with it and um it's not good for him you know I I I think that um I don't know I I just I feel kind of bad for him I feel bad for Bill Clinton I feel bad for him it's like the hatred is just it's making everybody do things that maybe ordinarily you know they wouldn't do and it's going around so much I mean you hear it on talk radio shows and you know and I mean like it's just I mean people could if they could just step back a little bit like Mr Hitchens for instance if he could just step back I mean he he he brought it back to maybe the reason he he hates Bill Clinton is from the time when he did that um the execution thing which I don't know the full story of but but I mean I just want to ask him you know I just want to ask him as a human being to another human being if he could try to you know just step back a little bit and um kind of see other things about Bill Clinton he's not a perfect person he really isn't he's very imperfect but he does have good you know you know a good side like everybody else I'm sure he does miss the hitches I'm sure you have some things that are good about you and some that are not good I'd be glad to think so s as she says she doesn't know about the Ricky Ray Rector case the killing of this defenseless uh and disabled man but very few people do whereas um if a republican candidate had uh tried to extricate himself from a a tough primary by killing a lobotomized black man I think the name of that man would be very well known by now because among other things the Liberals in the Press would have made a big stink about it the appalling thing about Clinton is that he's been able to do these things and not be questioned by by the the liberal Community the liberal constituency sorry I'm not going to step back um ma'am I can't oblige you one among other things I have a book to sell so I have to go out on the road with nothing but a smile and a shoe shine Seattle Washington good morning hi uh I little nervous I've never uh before so um nervous line no no need to be nervous go ahead caller well I felt Mr Hitchens for a long time I it's the nation and all that and um a good writer cuz he infuriates me one time and then I totally agree with him the other time I I do take umage at the uh description of sister mother Trace that you as the ghoul of Kolkata I thought that was a bit much but uh as far as um the uh um this third way that uh Mr Clinton and Mr Blair whom I throw on the same boat um are are furthering is this coo and Nat agenda part of that and does this third way take into account the uh cultural differences or is it in fact uh their desire for a a monoculture oligarch type system that overrides the cultural differences between people well that any sense yes it does um though I'm not absolutely certain what you I think I'm going to make a guess as to what you mean by the second uh point but on the first one I think it certainly is true of Mr Blair who is politically or you might say ideologically sympathetic to Clinton and similar to him though I don't really think Clinton has any ideology Beyond his own selfishness and the needs of the hour but call them a political twins if you like and the third ways the name they give to their project Mr Blair I think has convinced himself over the question of Serbia and Kosovo that it is possible for people of his generation ation born since the second world war Mr Blair is even younger than I am to um fight a war that is definitely not motivated by self-interest or by Empire or by any of the things that people used to suspect war of being motivated by and that is international and legal and humanitarian I mean I think he thinks that would be the achievement of his generation so yes that's that's true and I think he thinks it's true of this war and I must say I think he's picked the wrong War to say this about but one of the things that makes what ing this nightmare in kovo so so appalling is precisely that you can't say that the war is being fought for a purpose that is as advertised IGN Noble as advertised the purpose is a noble one that's PES corruptio optimy they I was taught when I was taught Latin which I don't remember much off it means the worst is is the corruption of the best if you were to write a profile of Christopher Hitchens which adjectives would you use to describe him I really don't think that's a fair question I mean um you'd have to ask somebody else um but I hope no I'm not even sure I should say what I hope would be said can't do it can't were you really up all night I was up a lot of the night why um I've been I've had a lot of work to catch up on there a lot of work I've got to do before I can go off on the road which I'm about to do I'm about to set off on a little tour of the country beating the bushes the smile and the shoe Shiner coming into play when do you work best late at night as a matter of fact probably a shame that children asleep phone doesn't ring it's quiet except for the you know screams and gunshots and things like that in the book and I I like to work there the book dedicated to Laura and Sophia yes my daughters how old are they Sophia will be 10 this year and Antonio will be six henac Cola Florida good morning yes hello uh I want to turn this on mute uh uh I want uh I would like for you to give me uh uh one statement that uh Clinton has said to you that you could say he is a direct liar uh you know perhaps uh at Oxford or wherever one statement is just said directly to you to me personally you're beg your pardon to me personally you mean be your pardon to me personally sir yes do you personally you say you've not him since Oxford you know you know him back when he was in Oxford I mean even back then can you tell me one one uh one no I think I may have I may have let you get the wrong impression um I very carefully said I did not know himox I'm contemporary of his from there I knew other people who lived at his address other contemporaries of his American and and British and so but I've never met the guy except for once in New Hampshire where he wouldn't answer a question I asked him about the I thought judicial murder of Ricky Ray Rector it was funny too because he was looking very much for a change of subject from Jennifer Flowers which was all that my colleagues would care about and I thought as a test of character surely executing a lobotomized black man is more more strenuous test more interesting test than than lying about Jennifer Flowers so anyway I said well Governor I do have another subject and he sort of turned as if that would be nice and I asked him about this he just turned his back and walked away it was on the tarmac at some airport in New Hampshire Chicago good morning yes good morning morning Mr Hitchens good morning um i' I've watched you over the last year and a half or whatever and I have to admit I disagree with most things that you say but I respect uh the way you stick to your guns and I would like to see perhaps with your very direct ass seric form of Journalism using that maybe a little bit more positive way highlighting other things but I think you certainly yourself and also Mr William Bennett who I used to completely disagree with I think a lot of things you've said we're actually now seeing turned out to be true I'm not talking about rapist or war criminals I think that's a little bit below your intellectual level to be quite honest with you but anyhow my question to you is uh about the covo crisis two very quick questions what about this double standard in the rambu agreement where one of the uh stipulations is at the cost ofo liberation Army are supposed to be deeded or unarmed and yeah we have the Western media now eulogizing them that now they're 20,000 people and whatever and I have a feeling the Kosovo Liberation arm is just doing the dirty work for Clinton he doesn't have the moral strength to send the troops in I think he does a dis an injustice to the Troops because I'm sure the Marines the British power Troopers the French Foreign Legion they would go in there seeing what's going on caller I'm going to stop you on that note because we are short on time and we'll get a response from our guest thanks for the call from Chicago um the C Liberation Army I know very little about I think anyone I don't trust anyone who says they do know it well allegations have been made against it that it's an extreme leninist organization that it's an extreme uh Islamic organization and that it's a drug dealing and narcotic smuggling organization I don't know of any evidence for any of those three propositions and I know that um a lot of what is said about about K slanderous but I have a suspicion that there's an accusation you could make against it that would be true which is that it's an extreme irid dentist nationalist organization by which I mean to say that it wants in the end Kosovo to become part of a greater Albania and I think that the metastasis of the vile idea of mosovich Greater Serbia a state based on ethn fascism internally and towards its neighbors the metastasis of that will be greater Albania it'll be mich's fault but it won't be a pretty thing to see and I think Western policy should should be predicated on the idea that greater Albania would be a bad idea too just as great as Serbia is Jacksonville Florida so you're right there is an imbalance yes good morning for Christopher Hitchens yes sir I'd like to say thank you Mr Hitchenson for uh writing the book I do have two comments for you sir um one I'd like to find out what you know of the Ford foundation and if you believe that the Clinton Administration is involved with it I've read several books throughout the years uh on that subject of uh a government uh a larger government issue behind the behind the scenes and also I'd like to correct Mr Kelly who was on before you who said that there were only 10 12,000 people in the area of both Iraq and the cosn and the kovo area but uh the fact is is that there's better than 50,000 people that are deployed from the United States over there right now military personnel airm that from from the actual United States predeployment there is better than 50 almost 75,000 involved and I believe it was just the other day you had representative Gilman on Bo on talking and he said that the war in over there over in Iraq is um has been is over and I will hate to tell you this and the people of America do need to know this your military is still out there on the line every day flying over these countries and nobody believes the war is over even though we're not bombing every day as we are now in Kosovo appreciate the call thank you I can't help him on the for foundation I I have I'm sorry sir i' have no information about that what is triangulation triangulation is three card Monty really it's a fancy name for three card Monty um it's a name the fancy name is coined by Dick Morris uh sleazy political consultant Ultra conservative um used to work for Jesse Helms unscrupulous money man and bagman and occasional procurer of women also for the president and until recently his only male friend um the idea of triangulation as a strategy is this you you steal the Republican party's uh program adopt it for the Democratic party hope you can bring the donors along the Republican party's donors along with you which you often can then you're faced with the task of Shoring up or reassuring your own constituency and that's done by means of a sort of cheap and superficial political correctness uh by which I mean Mr Clinton was very good at going to different constituencies and suggesting that they wouldn't be safe if there was a republican majority to women about abortion for example to some civil Libertarians about the Supreme Court he's very good at resorting to that kind of thing when in a corner for example on this China Scandal which I think still might be the death of him if half of what we suspect is true his first response is to say but this is just Asian bashing now no one had done any Asian bashing there was no suggestion at all it wasn't I think I think even an undertone of chauvinism in the pointing out that lot of Mr Clinton's donors were acting for foreign powers in major Asian Foreign corporations immediately he turns it into an before anyone said anything well this is Asian bashing as if to appeal to you know a latent Rainbow Coalition um that's the way the trick is pulled and that's that's where triangulation gets you in the end by the way as you may know we're spending a lot of time on this network looking at the 41 men who have served in the White House 41 American Presidents 42 but one sered not consecutive terms what is a fair amount of time in order to judge President Clinton through the prism of History oh I think his place in history is secure already don't you I mean I I really don't think that can be much doubt about it that people will say his was a regime of nothingness punctuated by nastiness U 8 years eaten by the Locust um uh the time when the possibility of denuclearizing and disarming large parts of the world he was the first real post Cold War President was simply thrown away with a chance to rebuild a different relationship with Russia was thrown away in the same way where the most sorted imaginable relationship was however developed with China in the most cynical possible manner where um the the worst kinds of political uh um trickery were practiced uh where the healthcare argument was lost perhaps for a whole other generation and where the standard of public life and of what what can be expected of a public servant was allowed just to collapse in free fall no nothing was punctuated by nastiness is what it you don't need to wait for verdict on Mr Clinton the book no one left to lie to by Christopher Hitchin now outp published by Verso V RSO thank you very much for being with us it's always a pleasure thanks for having it

Channel: hitch archive

Views: 112,340

Keywords: Bill Clinton (US President), Christopher Hitchens (Author), No One Left To Lie To, Politics (TV Genre)

Id: LbegbXEj9eM

Length: 60min 55sec (3655 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 05 2014